From auto shop to sacred space
Congregation Or Hadash, a conservative Jewish synagogue built from a former auto body repair shop.
November 20th, 2013
12:11 PM ET

From auto shop to sacred space

Editor's note: This story is part of CNN's American Journey series to show how old buildings around the United States have found new purposes and helped to build communities. Are there repurposed buildings in your community? Share the stories with CNN iReport and they could be featured in a CNN story.

Sandy Springs, Georgia (CNN) - The old Chevrolet paint and body shop was vacant - 24,000 square feet of metal and concrete surrounded by a sea of asphalt.

But when some members of Congregation Or Hadash saw it, they saw a home.

Since it was founded in 2003, the conservative Jewish congregation had bounced from location to location outside Atlanta - a Methodist church, a windowless space in a school, any place they could rent or borrow as they grew.

"Sometimes, from week to week, we didn't know exactly where we were going to be," said Fred Wachter, president of the congregation and a member since its early years.

"All the while ... we probably walked every piece of available property and real estate in Sandy Springs, trying to find something, anything, that would look like it."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (1,945 Responses)
  1. lol??

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    In Santa we trust
    L of A, Other religions have the equivalent writings "showing how accurate" their beliefs are. You are only a christian because that is the majority religion in the USA – you cannot point to any way christianity is objectively superior to any religion and you definitely cannot point to objective evidence of a god.

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    How do all the thousands of other man made religions save man from himself?? Any scriptures besides the gnostic fakes??

    Have at it..

    November 24, 2013 at 12:29 am |
    • Puck

      How does your post address anything Santa said?

      November 24, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
  2. JW

    Who is "wisdom" on Proverbs chapter 8?

    Who's is the king of tyre on Ezekiel chapter 28?

    November 23, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
    • still trying to find out how many non-trinitarian believers there are in the world...

      Hmm. Let me mull that over. ( the mull of king tyre)

      November 23, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Dippy's Protege

      Who is, or who's. Not who's is.

      November 23, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • igaftr

      In " The Chamber of Secrets" second chapter, what color were Harry's socks?

      Same type of pointless question.

      November 25, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
  3. bostontola

    Extremist group warning signs:

    – Individual's identi ty becomes melded into the group's, and or its God's.
    – Emotional over reaction to criticism of the group and or its God.
    – Belief that the group is THE way.
    – Dependency on the group, scripture, or leader for problem solving, explanations, analysis, etc. leading to the loss of independent thinking.
    – Following of group, or leader thinking and action, defending it without seeking independent verification.
    – Demonization of members of groups with other ideas.

    November 23, 2013 at 10:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Motivations, ethics and morality refer to the perceived desires of the group, its leader, and/or its God.

      November 23, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • lol??

      The Diverse Beast has many wives and dependents. It crushed the Masters. PUblic Servants WIN, Win!!

      November 23, 2013 at 3:48 pm |
      • Sam

        The Diverse Beast lives at his sister's house in Reston, VA.

        November 23, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
  4. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Something you missed thanks to CNN:

    A sharp, but civil, debate between Russ, one of the most interesting mainstream Christians and JW, a Jehovah Witness, on whether Jesus was created. They retraced a debate that has been going on for almost 2000 years.

    November 23, 2013 at 10:08 am |
    • Commenter

      I don't know if these mass deletions are the work of the Editors or of an abuser, but they sure are a downer to anyone who wants to spend any time, thought and effort to post more than one-liners.

      November 23, 2013 at 10:34 am |
    • Billy

      Does it say in Luke or Matthew somewhere something like "Lo, the babe's bellybutton was not too small, not too big, but just right"? Or do they maybe describe it as a la Kyle XY? Maybe Topher or Live4Him can answer and while their at it, tell us how those poor giant turtles made it all the way back to the Galapagos from Gibraltar after the flood.

      November 23, 2013 at 10:48 am |
    • bostontola

      I don't know what happened, Russ was mass expunged. I don't remember 1 that warranted deletion. I may have missed an egregious post, but it still seems harsh.

      November 23, 2013 at 10:48 am |
      • Russ

        @ bostontola & TTTOO: i appreciate the vote of support, especially considering our tendency to fall on opposite ends of the debate here.

        i'm not looking to cast aspersions unnecessarily, but in the last two days I have two rather lengthy threads with JW deleted. meanwhile, my lengthy dialogue w/ you, bostontola, remains untouched (on the same page, too). i'm wondering if my direct comments about JWs have been flagged by CNN and thus removed, or if someone with particular interests in that regard is deleting threads with that particular topic.

        November 23, 2013 at 12:15 pm |
        • Russ

          and here is my final comment to JW (in response to direct requests, so note that it's out of context) last night before the thread was deleted...


          @ JW:
          i have responded. you're not seeing the distinctions i'm making. let's see if i can clarify...

          a) hermeneutics
          no, my appeal was not merely "God's transcendent." my appeal was to his self-revelation – the Bible. that much we agree upon... if i'm hearing you correctly. the only way we can know God is if he speaks for himself... in his Word. that's why you claim to study the Bible. that's why i claim to. right? can we agree upon that? if so, that's the appeal to transcendence...

          having said that – then the question at hand is NOT "does it match what i'd prefer and what makes most sense to me at the outset?" but is instead "what does it say & mean? what is God revealing about himself?" can we agree upon that?

          the issue here is hermeneutics. how do you read & interpret the text? am i right to assume you want to actually get to the original, authorial intent? up to this point, i'd like to think (from my exp of JWs) that you are on the same page: you want to accurately know what the bible says & means.

          b) distinguishing Jesus from (as you put it) "Almighty God"
          you cite verses here that DO NOT contradict was classical, orthodox, Trinitarian Christianity has claimed since its inception. i think that's the problem. your arguments show a failure to understand Trinitarian theology. you are clearly hearing me pressing you on the divinity of Christ in your responses (which leads me to believe i am accurately understanding your position), but you are not rightly portraying or in any way undermining Trinitarian belief in the verses you cite. again, that leads me to believe you don't understand the Trinity as Christianity articulates it.

          read carefully: God is 3-in-1 and 1-in-3. 3 persons, one God. none of the verses you cite debate that. as a matter of fact, Mt.3:17 (the baptism of Jesus) is one of the most often cited *pictures* of the Trinity (with Father, Son, & Holy Spirit seen all at once). it's as if you're making my argument for me, but then citing it against me, not realizing what you've done. these verses support the Trinity, not undermine it – though you clearly think the opposite (again, telling me you don't understand the thing you are criticizing).

          c) other sources
          i have a post-graduate degree in this field. i attended secular inst.itutions and learned from many different types of teachers, including those with whom i radically disagreed. i'm encouraging you to do the same. again, i think a shared value you we have here (among the many we don't) is the belief that the Bible can stand on its own.

          and note: i am attempting to take you question by question. i'm not attempting to dodge anything you've said – which is why i think you are not rightly understanding the Trinity.

          d) special revelation
          not "schemes" but "schema." there's a major difference. i wasn't saying you were scheming, i was pointing out that you have a very different theory/understanding/system of how the Bible as a whole should be read.

          "special revelation" is a technical term in biblical theology. it is normally juxtaposed with "general revelation" (the notion that some things can be deduced from creation itself [i.e. Rom.1: "all men are without excuse"], but not enough for salvation). Since the Fall, God is only rightly understood through his own Word.

          if i understand JWs correctly, this too is a point of agreement (again, among many, MAJOR differences).

          November 23, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
        • Alias

          If someone reports you as abusive – ie clilcks the 'report abuse' tab, your comment is likely to be removed without much thought from CNN.
          Yes, I have tried this just to make sure, and some completely appropriate comments went away.

          I don't think CNN bothers to read everything they delete, but I have been banned twice for saying what i really think about Israel's foreign policy.

          November 23, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • Billy

      Russ has always been civil and I think JW also, so that does seem quite harsh.

      November 23, 2013 at 10:51 am |
      • Charm Quark

        Although Topher may not come out and admit it, he believes that all animals/reptiles that came off of the ark that needed to travel to Asia, the Americas, Australia, etc., had wings to get them to their destination and then gradually lost them. You can't make this BS up, oh wait, I just did.

        November 23, 2013 at 11:00 am |
        • Billy

          Interesting idea. Somehow I doubt that scriptures say anything about that. I think if I had to try to rationalize everything in life to fit the Biblical narrative all the time, I might also be walking around with HeadOn somehow permanently attached to my head.

          November 23, 2013 at 11:10 am |
        • Charm Quark

          Careful there you are describing the World According to Topher, if it isn't in the bible it does not exist to our Topher.

          November 23, 2013 at 11:13 am |
      • Commenter

        I happen to disagree with both of them, but this slap in the face to them, after all of their work, is horrid.

        To Russ & JW, & Tom, Tom, (and anyone else affected), it's a shame and I feel bad for you.

        November 23, 2013 at 11:03 am |
        • Sara

          Was it taken out by the moderators or put into moderation by users? Can the OP still see the thread?

          November 23, 2013 at 11:26 am |
    • Billy

      Do you remember any points of that conv. that were surprising to you?

      November 23, 2013 at 10:57 am |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        I had wanted to read through JW's Old Testament references from Ezekiel, Isaiah, Pslams and others. I'd never seen a Jehovah Witness's perspective on any of it.

        November 23, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • Billy

      It seems JW have about half the membership of Mormons. I was looking because some concepts seem similar.

      This site: http://people.opposingviews.com/mormon-religious-beliefs-versus-jehovah-witness-beliefs-6354.html
      tells about JW rejecting the trinity, and yet there is still this concept of sons of God (some variant of Jesus) and Satan as brothers going on for both.

      November 23, 2013 at 11:27 am |
      • Billy

        Maybe not very similar. But certainly this JW idea of Jesus being a created angel (Michael?) prior to God making him temporarily human is different than the balance of Christian belief I think.

        November 23, 2013 at 11:36 am |
  5. Lapin


    November 23, 2013 at 9:40 am |
  6. Dyslexic doG

    if the bible is the word of god then every single word and punctuation mark must be followed and revered! If even one word is proven incorrect, contradictory, foolish or made up by man, then the whole book is worthless because unless you are god himself, you cannot judge which parts of the bible can be disregarded and which should be followed, which are truth and which are allegories. You must follow it ALL or discount it ALL.

    I have never met a Christian who follows the bible even close to completely. You are all frauds and you know it!!!

    November 22, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
  7. Apple Bush

    To you religious folks out there tonight, feeling a little lonely....this one goes out to you;

    There is a reason atheists don't believe as you do and even get a little hot about it sometimes. Everything you believe in is absurd and a lie. The fact that you believe fiction and mythology makes you dangerous to society.

    That is all.

    November 22, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      Again, making it easy with some specifics and putting an end to the existence of this blog:

      Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

      • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

      • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

      • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

      • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

      • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

      • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

      Added details available upon written request.

      A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

      e.g. Taoism

      "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

      Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

      November 22, 2013 at 11:31 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Apple, what you call mythical we see as real because we have invited Christ into our lives , if you hav'nt then you can't join the club and you are an outsider with no knowledge or understanding of who he is or what he means and all about him is foolishness to you.You are a pragmatist who sees only what you can feel or touch is real. Yet there are realities you miss out on .

      November 25, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
      • igaftr

        You are wrong and some other religion is right, or there are no gods and no religion is right or you are in the matrix and nothing you believe is right or....on and on.
        No reason to think your religion is correct over any other, and no reason to think that any religion is right.

        November 25, 2013 at 12:35 pm |
        • lngtrmthnkr

          Igaftr, as there are billions of different people on earth with billions of different experiences and perspectives, there are many different religins . All the ones that bring us closer to God are right ones. The ones that take us away froom God are wrong. God is pure love and hes' good for all people who seek it.

          November 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
        • fintastic

          God is purely your imagination.....but if confusing reality with mythology makes you feel good.......

          November 26, 2013 at 11:05 am |
  8. Apple Bush

    Why does god need human beings to spread his word? This is a being that can simultaneously watch, hear or ignore any number of a quadrillion trillion trillion living or inanimate things throughout the universe. This is the all-powerful creator who provided every rule under which we understand our universe. All technology flows from him, yet he can't tell us himself to behave?

    November 22, 2013 at 10:52 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Well isn't some Christian genius going to clear this up for me?

      November 22, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      and why does he need our constant adoration and praise? is he that insecure? is he that narcissistic?

      November 22, 2013 at 11:29 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      He tells us all the time but few listen.

      November 25, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Apple ,he tells us all the time but few listen. Some people try to help others to find God because they were once in a hole they couldn't get out of.They found a way out and they want to help others find their way out. They don't want to control you or tell you what to do. They want to help'

      November 25, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
      • Which God?


        There’s A Hole In My Sidewalk
        – by Portia Nelson
        Chapter One
        I walk down the street.
        There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
        I fall in.
        I am lost… I am helpless.
        It isn’t my fault.
        It takes forever to find a way out.
        Chapter Two
        I walk down the same street.
        There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
        I pretend I don’t see it.
        I fall in again.
        I can’t believe I am in the same place.
        But it isn’t my fault.
        It still takes a long time to get out.
        Chapter Three
        I walk down the same street.
        There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
        I see it is there.
        I still fall in… it’s a habit.
        My eyes are open.
        I know where I am.
        It is my fault… I get out immediately.
        Chapter Four
        I walk down the same street.
        There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
        I walk around it.
        Chapter Five
        I walk down another street

        November 25, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
        • lngtrmthnkr

          I like it which God, the idea is to stop making the same mistakes and to learn from them so you won't repeat' But some people don't get out on their own ,they just dig deeper or forget which way is up or down. Life direction seems to be the hardest thing to change.Who, if they could, would'nt give directions to a lost person or give first aid to the injured?

          November 25, 2013 at 8:57 pm |
  9. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    She called on demons to come out of me and "the other vermin" here. She wasn't good at it. I felt pretty much the same after reading her exorcism.

    November 22, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      faith/etc... , I mean

      November 22, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
  10. bostontola

    Archeologists have found that religion is older than they thought. They originally thought farming led to settlements which eventually led to religion. Gobelin Tepe is a religious settlement almost 12,000 years old. Older than any farming evidence, and almost twice as old as the biblical universe. Early on, man recognized groups were more effective, being part of something larger than themselves had value. Man's imagination made the jump to beings more powerful than themselves and used that as primitive organizational tool. All this thousands of years before our current religions. Religion was very useful and powerful in our development, but don't think the current religions are innovative or better. Sadly, they've been used as power concentrators.

    November 22, 2013 at 8:33 pm |
    • Sara

      The written word is a problem in so far as it stagnates what historically was a flexible and evolving social element. Religions have always shifted and changed to meet a society's needs and knowledge, but once sacred texts are introduced, as in the last few thousand years, this becomes increasingly difficult as, meanwhile, the world changes faster than ever.

      November 22, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
      • Science Works

        And those text seem way out of date when stuff like this shows up.

        Chomp Chomp.

        Colossal New Predatory Dino Terrorized Early Tyrannosaurs

        Nov. 22, 2013 — A new species of carnivorous dinosaur – one of the three largest ever discovered in North America – lived alongside and competed with small-bodied tyrannosaurs 98 million years ago. This newly discovered species, Siats meekerorum,


        November 22, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
      • lngtrmthnkr

        Sara, the world is changing at an accelerating pace as knowledge is increasing as predicted in the bible.The important lessons of the bible hav'nt changed and never will.Jesus said the most important commandment is that you love one another.and all the others fall under this law. this is a timeless commandment that will allways be current no mater how smart and advanced we become.

        November 25, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • bostontola

      Gobekli Tepe, spell check took over.

      November 22, 2013 at 9:04 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I should think they would find evidence going much further back if it was available to discover. 150,000 years of religion.

      November 22, 2013 at 10:34 pm |
  11. Lionly Lamb

    Outward logistics being established upon quantum physics becoming all jumbled and discombobulated sensors of relative receptivity conjugations seldom retaining too many issues of transitory mental positioning valuations...

    November 22, 2013 at 7:54 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      Endocrinal uncommenting pak vernalised detest pryingly metaphoricalness superability nonclassifiable sharet check interposer anemia idealizing uncloudy unconfutative unharbored temporarily seltzer unreveling apodous wadmal bold agentival antefix momentarily correction ilmarinen reckoner. Saccule unacclaimed chimneylike espy dallas marmalade sargassumfishes dunn lichee abecedarium immunogenic grandville

      November 22, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
      • Which God?

        @ DD. Yeah, that too.

        November 25, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
  12. Pamela

    JW, you and your religion are plainly vile and dangerous. I put saving human lives ahead of your crazy, murderous cult beliefs. I know that many other medical professionals share my views; we abhor your sick cult and its crazy doctrine, and we will always want to help save the lives of your victims, whether you agree or not.

    November 22, 2013 at 7:34 pm |
  13. Lionly Lamb

    Forever forgiven Life will ever so be... Theists or not, Life will forever live on... Making change of one's views are temporary shadows within an ever seceding darkness...

    November 22, 2013 at 6:58 pm |
    • Director

      ".....and scene!"

      November 22, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
  14. Apple Bush

    Everybody else gets it.

    Big picture; trees forest and all that but with the right keys in the pocket.

    A scented candle a call a text a smile a frown.

    The unhappiness may come from the genitalia or from the past; all must exit.

    November 22, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
  15. truthprevails1

    Interesting and I'm left wondering if this will have any impact...
    "A federal district court judge has declared “unconstitutional” a portion of U.S. law that allows “a minister of the gospel” to not pay income tax on a specific portion of their compensation.

    U.S. District Court Judge Barbara B. Crabb of the Western District of Wisconsin ruled that the so-called “parish exemption,” which allows religious ministers to avoid paying taxes on the value of their housing granted to them by their religious employers, “violates the establishment clause” of the U.S. Constitution and must be discontinued.

    The law, 26 U.S. C. § 107(2), has bee on the books since 1954.

    The tax exemption was estimated to cost U.S. taxpayers $2.3 billion from 2002-2007 alone, likely more in the years since. "


    November 22, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • Science Works

      It is good it came out of Wisconsin, hot bed for the RCC.

      November 22, 2013 at 6:02 pm |
      • My Dog is a jealous Dog

        This makes me a little proud of my home state. I grew up there and every small town had 2 churches, one RCC, the other Lutheran (Catholicism-Lite).

        Go! Pack Go!
        Get back on the field Aaron – we really, really miss you!

        November 22, 2013 at 6:35 pm |
        • Science Works

          My Grandfather homesteaded a place in Wisconsin know it well.

          November 22, 2013 at 6:43 pm |
        • Science Works

          And the glaciers long ago pushed some neat stony iron meteorites into the state.

          November 22, 2013 at 6:50 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Slightly off topic.... but, ask any Packer fan if given a choice between having to pick another religion or another NFL team and see what kind of response you get.

          November 22, 2013 at 6:56 pm |
        • Science Works

          Nothing against the Packers fans but is it not one of the same? As old Vince you to say ?

          November 22, 2013 at 7:02 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          I really love my home state, beautiful countryside, and hard working common sense people. I'm 5th or 6th gen cheesehead, and everything important to know I learned by cutting wood, and bailing hay, and pitching in with the neighbor kids farm chores so we could go down to the creek. The world has changed a great deal, and I wish that kind of life actually existed in more places. My hometown has changed more in the last 20 years than the previous 100, and the world of my childhood hardly exists anywhere, anymore. I am just grateful I was grew up where and when I did.

          November 22, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          The only irrational thoughts that I ever entertain are all around the Packers. Like the beer commercial says "It's only weird if it doesn't work". Do I have faith in the face of evidence to the contrary? Only when it comes to the Pack. Do I ever bet on them? Absolutely NOT! That is bad mojo! Plus, I am technically an NFL owner and it is illegal for me to bet (I use this as an excuse to had my unfounded beliefs).

          Atheism is not a religion – but being a Green Bay Packer owner definitely is!

          November 22, 2013 at 7:12 pm |
        • Doris

          Oh goodness, Dog, you're gonna make mama get out and reread her old copy of Little House in the Big Woods. lol.

          November 22, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
        • Science Works

          .I love the state too we still have grandpas farm in the family but it is not a working farm any more.Over the years we turned it into the
          families shack in the woods with its own front and back lake the cows use to drink out of and bluegills jump in the boat.

          And the town still has its one same RCC church 2 bars a hardware store and best the best place to have breakfast with American fries.

          November 22, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog


          You are absolutely correct. I do have other irrational thoughts – for example, I love my wife. It is completely irrational, but lets face it we are all human.

          November 22, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Science Works

          Sounds about right – 2 to 1 ratio of bars to churches. Mine had 2 churches, 5 bars and a general store/post offfice.

          November 22, 2013 at 7:37 pm |
        • Science Works

          My Dog is a jealous Dog

          And this time of year in the woods is like another type of religion maybe ?

          November 22, 2013 at 7:56 pm |
        • lol??

          The Indian bars way out in the woods are the best. Things get real quiet when ya walk in and there are plenty of pickled snacks in big jars to munch on.

          November 22, 2013 at 10:14 pm |
        • Foxfire

          Of course you would know all about that, loll ??, you bigoted witch.

          November 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
      • Science Works

        yea lol?? the pack of pickled peppers is a wait8ing for you !

        November 23, 2013 at 10:00 am |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          I have never seen a local eat anything out of one of those jars except on a bet. Those are reserved for idiot tourists and drunken fools. Can I buy you a shot of Ginger Brandy – Extra Sharp?

          November 23, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
        • Science Works

          My Dog is a jealous Dog

          The Barn Burner (extra sharp) was at the ready the bet was on but no one finished the pickled pigs eye before they reach for the Barn Burner to wash it down.

          November 23, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
        • My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Science Works

          I bet we have both spent some time playing cribbage and liar's dice, too. I get really homesick for bars like this, and love to walk into them, have every head turn, and then just sit down and start telling stories/jokes with the locals. There is a Packer bar in every city in the country (even Chicago!) and I always have fun when I find one. I have been to Packer bars in Wyoming, Texas, even Jamaica.

          November 23, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
        • Science Works

          Back in the 70's i found one even in Alabama !

          And if I remember correctly they had the pickled bull nuts in the jar.

          Cribbage 15-2 15-4 and a double run of 4 for 20 the dice too.

          November 23, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
        • Science Works

          My Dog is a jealous Dog

          Who is going to win today, the Vikings or the Packers ?

          November 24, 2013 at 7:22 am |
    • Vick

      Wow – same judge that ruled about having the 10 commandments statue removed even though the local government tried to get around it by granting the piece of land it was on to the people who donated the statue. Go judge Crabb! Time to rally around the Freedom From Religion Foundation and get this tax exemption gone for good!

      November 22, 2013 at 7:06 pm |
  16. Lionly Lamb

    Theist or no... Life forever is...

    November 22, 2013 at 5:35 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      That's your dogma talking.... Yoda.

      November 23, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • fintastic

      The ignorance is strong in this one!

      November 26, 2013 at 11:19 am |
  17. Reality # 2

    The stars are there and you are made from their dust. Your god is a figment of your imagination and typically said imagination is fueled by the Christian and Islamic cons.

    November 22, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • Hu?

      Where is the con?

      November 22, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Surely you jest.

        November 22, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Number One:

        Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/

        From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

        Even now Catholic/Christian professors (e.g.Notre Dame, Catholic U, Georgetown) of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

        To wit;

        From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

        "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
        Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

        Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

        Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

        The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

        Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

        The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

        "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."

        The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

        With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

        An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,


        "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

        p.168. by Ted Peters:

        Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

        So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

        November 22, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Reality, the universe is an intricate ,exquiset dance of elements and stars and galaxies that all combine to create the conditions for life. The complexity is mind bogeling and we don't understand all the dynamics. It is an inticate weave of creation and destruction,all leading towards life. It is infinitly more complex than a clock. If you have a clock, there must be a clockmaker somewhere.

      November 25, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Au Contraire !!!

        o Think infinity and recycling with the Big Bang expansion followed by the shrinking reversal called the Gib Gnab and recycling back to the Big Bang repeating the process on and on forever. Human life and Earth are simply a minute part of this cha-otic, sto-cha-stic, expanding, shrinking process disappearing in five billion years with the burn out of the Sun and maybe returning in another five billion years with different life forms but still subject to the va-ga-ries of its local star.

        November 25, 2013 at 1:23 pm |
  18. I am somone who...

    …probably wants to increase world happiness and reduce suffering.
    …holds thousands of beliefs for which she has no well-tested evidence.
    …often makes irrational decisions.
    …may or may not believe in free will.
    …may believe any number of things about morality.
    …almost certainly holds some beliefs that logically contradict other beliefs she holds.
    …is plagued by over a dozen powerful cognitive biases.
    …may believe any number of things about who the Historical Jesus was.
    …may be anywhere from extremely intelligent to frightfully stupid.
    …is probably outraged by some religious beliefs and practices.
    …may have any range of beliefs about evolution, cosmogony, and the nature of spacetime.
    …may hold any of several views about metaphysics.
    …may or may not have a highly positive view of science.
    …may or may not believe in absolute truth.
    …holds many beliefs and atti-tudes out of trust, not evidence.
    …may hold any of several views about the historicity of the Bible.
    …sometimes acts against her own moral principles.
    …can be angry, satisfied, sad, happy, lazy, or industrious at different times.
    …often makes assertions about topics she knows relatively little about.
    …may live in a bubble of like-minded friends or have many friends with diverse beliefs.
    …may or may not regularly doubt her own worldview.

    I can be either and atheist or a Christian.

    November 22, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious


      November 22, 2013 at 5:03 pm |
    • Dippy's Assistant

      Let's try joining two of your fragments:

      "I am someone who often makes assertions about topics she knows relatively little about."

      Does that make any sense?

      Also, why can't you be something besides a Christian or an atheist?

      November 22, 2013 at 5:12 pm |
      • Dippy

        It's a "Atheists are superior to Christians" message board, not a "other people beside atheists (who are superior to Christians) and Christians" message board.

        November 22, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
        • Dippy's Assistant

          Hmm. Let's see – would the real Dippy write 'It's a "Atheist . . .' ?

          November 22, 2013 at 5:37 pm |
        • Dippy

          " starts with the letter Q. A is appropriate.

          November 22, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
        • Jeff

          Really? I've never heard that punctuation marks are included in that rule.

          November 22, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      I am somone, you are everyman or everywoman. We are ingrained with the need to make sense of our world. To find answers to the questions and mysteries of life and meaning of our existence. We don't get all the answers from one place. we have to explore different areas to round out the picture. We all search in our own capacity,and we will be looking until the day we leave the earth.

      November 25, 2013 at 9:14 pm |
  19. AtheistSteve

    I have a sticker on my car of Calvin peeing on someone trying to help a poor person.

    November 22, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • Alias

      Sometimes people need pee.
      Good boy Calvin!

      November 22, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      I haven't posted anything in almost 2 days and still I have an impersonator. Interesting that I bother someone so much that they can't get me out of their minds. Must suck to be so insecure.

      November 22, 2013 at 5:16 pm |
    • Jeff

      The phony is obviously a Teatard.

      November 22, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
      • AtheistSteve

        Yeah, I'm pretty sure my posts won't be confused with copy trolls.

        November 22, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
      • AtheistSteve.2

        Sorry. And I voted for Obama and lead my city's chapter of Young Democrats.

        November 22, 2013 at 5:22 pm |
        • AtheistSteve

          How would I, a Canadian, manage that? You're not even trying.

          November 22, 2013 at 5:25 pm |
        • truthprevails1

          AtheistSteve (the real one): Babe, you voted for Obama?? Did you write that in on the ballot the last time we voted (would beat what we have now)?

          November 22, 2013 at 5:28 pm |
      • AtheistSteve.2

        I, AtheistSteve.2, the phony, am not a teatard. I belong to the Democratic Party.

        November 22, 2013 at 5:53 pm |
        • Jeff

          Then why would you have a bumper sticker of Calvin peeing on someone trying to help a poor person?

          November 22, 2013 at 6:23 pm |
        • fyi


          He/she simply took on AtheistSteve's screen name and posted garbage to make AtheistSteve look bad.

          In case any new visitors are not aware: there is an insane/inane person who frequents these blogs who poses as the regular, established screen names of certain posters with whom he disagrees or whom he doesn't like.
          It's best to ignore him, since your replies probably will be removed along with his.

          November 22, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.