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December 3rd, 2013
02:11 PM ET
Pope: I was once a bar bouncerBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN)– If St. Peter ever needs help at the Pearly Gates, his successor Pope Francis may be the perfect man for the job. The popular pontiff was once a bouncer at a nightclub in his native Argentina, Francis told Catholics at a church outside Rome earlier this week. He has also swept floors and run tests in a chemical laboratory, the Pope said, in revelations sure to boost his image as a "pope of the people." And, as leader of the Jesuit community in Argentina, he woke at 5:30 a.m. to do the priests' laundry, according to author Christopher Lowney. READ MORE: When Pope Francis was put on laundry duty Francis didn't offer details about his career as a bouncer, according to L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, or what connection his velvet-rope experience might have to his current job as Vicar of Christ and head of the Roman Catholic Church.
Instead, the Pope told the church group, "his work later in life, teaching literature and psychology, taught him how to get people back into the church," reports Catholic News Service. Getting people into church seems to be Pope Francis' primary mission these days, as made clear by his most recent official statement, a 50,000-word pep talk to the world's 1.2 billion Catholics. READ MORE: Pope Francis: No more business as usual In "Evangelii Gaudium" (The Joy of the Gospel), officially known as an "apostolic exhortation," Francis calls for church reforms, urges Catholics to be more bold and joyful, and castigates elements of modern capitalism. "I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets," the Pope said, "rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security." Did Francis leave a few barflies bruised and hurting during his bouncing days? No word on that from the Vatican yet.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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https://www.facebook.com/RIPNelsonMandela6
@Topher
You mention that the Sumerian flood myths are plagiarized versions of the Noah flood story.
Archeological excavations of the Babylonian cities of Shuruppak, Ur, Kish, Uruk, Lagash, and Ninevah all show clear evidence of flooding, though at different times.
Israel has no such indicators whatsoever.
This simple fact makes it far more likely that the Bibilical flood story is an adapted version of the Sumerian flood myths.
It's why the Smithsonian showed the bible is not an historical doc_ument because it contains literary genre and folk lore.
sure
Or once a bouncer always a bouncer or same as the old retired boss ?
Vatican refuses to give UN panel full details of clerical se-x abuse cases
Holy See angers campaigners by not disclosing information requested by UN committee on the rights of the child
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/vatican-refuses-un-panel-details-clerical-se-x-abuse-cases?CMP=twt_fd
Does someone have a picture of Pope Francis in his younger days? CNN please post a picture of the Pope through the years.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/15/article-2294187-18B2D5F8000005DC-657_306x503.jpg
Coolest pope evar.
Saint Peter disagrees !!
I don't think he'd said that. I think you are the one who said that and make that up.
Slow BeliefBlog news day.
I do not think doctrine is changed by allowing the flood story to be a form of parable. Do you insist on the flood story being a real event as described?
Depends on how you mean. I'd say the Flood absolutely happened as the Bible states it did. However, it's not a necessary belief for salvation. I would also add this, though. If you claim to be a Christian and reject something like that, you're kinda calling God a liar. Be careful.
Even when Jesus referred to the flood story it was in regard to end times and judgment. He was speaking to a crowd that believed the flood story as a real historic event in the time frame used by new earth creationists. Certainly Jesus had no need to address the time frame or explain to the Apostles the time frame of the flood or the veracity of the story so I have no would be calling Him a liar.
I would not be calling God a liar because the flood story was inspired to express the truth in a timeless nature being understood by the Hebrew 6,000 years ago and anyone that would hear it today. The truth does not change because of the way Gods Word is heard. Are you suggesting the truth is only in the literal understanding of the translation we have of the flood story?
I would say that a literal understanding of the Flood story is the correct understanding of it, yes. Jesus taught it was true. Genesis is written as historical narrative. There's no reason to understand it in any other way.
The snake, the garden, the two trees and a really big boat must be historically accurate why?
Because God said so. Simple as that.
Jesus taught that the conditions of the end of days would be like the days of Noah where the majority were wicked and indifferent to the offer of salvation offered by God. It will be sudden and the people will not understand until it is too late and the end is upon them. He did not teach the account of Genesis as given by Moses.
Sure He did. He taught that the entire OT was true. Plus, "as in the days of Noah" sounds like He's talking about an actual event to me.
Tropher
Certainly the serpent would ask "did God really say that" so I was hesitant to ask. I have no doubt that God could create a reality where everything in Genesis was historically accurate. I also do not want to lead anyone astray by suggesting that genesis need not be taken as historical but Divine presentation of creation that is not understandable by man in any other fashion then as presented.
Jesus taught that the OT as presented by the leading Priests of his day was corrupted by man but the Holy Scriptures were true. An example would be the truth from Scripture regarding the Sabbath in contrast to what religion had done to them. How could I extend His words to include all of Genesis being historically accurate?
Sorry it's taking me so long to answer, dude. I'm trying to hold several conversations. As you said, He claimed that man had corrupted them in their teachings, but that the Scriptures were true. How many times did He say, "Have you not read ..."
Of course it is true. And, we have no evidence proving otherwise.
OK we had an extra daily award for Fundy Method of Inquiry & Verification to give out so, we'll just give this one to everyone in this thread thusfar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIj4rLYo0c
The flood story was ubiquitous in all of ancient Near Eastern literature. It was not literal. The genetic bottle neck it would have created refutes any possibility of it literally happening. DNA proves it didn't. They stole it from the epic of Gilgamesh. Google it, and read book 11. Word for word, the same story. Same boat dimensions, same bird, and same olive branch. The Hebrews were not a ship building culture. No was they could have suddenly built a sea-worthy boat, when they had no reason to even know how. There is NO SILT layer, ANYWHERE on Earth, much less on Mt. Ararat. It simply NEVER happened. There was never a world-wide food. Archaeology had dug FAR DEEPER than any silt layer would be and found NONE. The Babble is wrong. It's all myth.
Rodent
The epic of Gilgamesh was taken from the oral tradition passed down to Nimrod.
Be vewwwwy careful.....god is watching
he knows who's been naughty and who's been nice
oh, sorry, wrong myth
gopher, more empty proxy threats.....
coward
Every word is absolutely true
If you insist that god was behind the flood and the later parting of the red sea, then you have to accept that god caused or let happen, the recent tsunamis and the massacre by drowning of 250,000 innocents.
Which means that the god of the bible pretty much fits the description therein of the devil.
Y do u lie? What do u want?
Hey Topher,
Im still waiting on you explanation on Acts 7:55?
I gave it to you. You rejected it. No sense continuing our conversation. You reject Biblical Christianity and the teachings of Christ and the early church.
Last time you explained that Jesus is the 2nd part of the trinity...so is he separated from God, or is he the main part of the 3 headed god?
The Trinity is three distinct persons, one God. I know, it's really difficult to understand. Most of us can barely wrap our heads around it. But that's what the Bible teaches. Christ claimed over and over to be God. Not an angel.
Topher, how can you worship something you cannot even explain properly or understand?
“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3.
“The Father is greater than I am.”—John 14:28.
Jesus made this prayer to God...do you think if he was God, that he wouldnt of said, the "one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ"?
Thank you Topher for confirming what I tried to explain to JW earlier. He doesn't seem to comprehend that most christian's don't view his god as the same one they worship. There 7.3 million worldwide opposed to 2.8 billion christians and while majority seldom rules, it still seems funny that he thinks he is right when so few agree. He also tends to forget that according to his own belief, only 144000 are chosen...so that leaves many who won't be granted his god's magical reward-I wonder if he's considered that he might be one of them.
Set that aside...how's your wife doing? When can we expect you to share the excitement?
Jesus’ early followers did not view him as being equal to Almighty God. For example, the apostle Paul wrote that after Jesus was resurrected, God “exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position.” Obviously, Paul did not believe that Jesus was Almighty God. Otherwise, how could God exalt Jesus to a superior position? —Philippians 2:9.
Truth- dont you understand, that God true followers were never the majority, but only a minority? This world belongs to Satan... Look at the 1st century christians...do you think they were the minority of that time? Or Noah? Or even the Israelites?
Truth
My wife is good. Had a sonogram today.
And yes, JWs are considered heretics and preach false gospels.
Your funny Topher...you say we preach a false gospel...but your not able to answer my questions, nor you even know your god,...you are a confused man!
Truth- What in your opinion are people going to do in heaven when they die?
"Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
I know Him very well. It has been you that has blasphemed Him every time you claim He's not God. I'm sorry, dude. But you've been duped. I'm very afraid for you.
Ohhh, Christian spider fight. Come look.
"Many good works have I shewed you from my Father...;"
Does this prove to you that Jesus is a triune god?
The important thing there is that the people who heard what He said knew that He was claiming to be God. Not an angel.
Topher – You dont need to be afraid of me, its just a conversation in between 2 people. Just presenting my points and you yours.
"The Trinity is three distinct persons, one God. I know, it's really difficult to understand. Most of us can barely wrap our heads around it."
You just told me you cant understand your god...!
I'm not afraid. You haven't been on this blog long, have you?
That's not what I said at all. Please don't take my words out of context.
God is a Spirit, angels are Spirits as well....
But how is Jesus god if he just said..." the things i learned from my father?
God means "devine: god like" Satan is called the god of this world...is he the Almighty God?
JW, He could say just that in a pantheit system. Jesus would just be a special instance of how all humans are god.
Phil 2:5,6 "Keep this mental attiitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God..."
JW
"But how is Jesus god if he just said..." the things i learned from my father?"
Again, dude, that's the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons, one God. We even see the three of them interacting in those quotes I gave you this morning that you ignored.
"God means "devine: god like" Satan is called the god of this world...is he the Almighty God?"
of course not.
Topher, be a bit careful with JW. As you likely already know, part of how his death cult works to try to rope in new recruits is to try to engage them in dialogs. He even has copied the same conversation starter lines all over this blog. It's classic old tactics for his cult.
Just saying, watch your step, bud. But you seem to be holding your own.
Thanks for the warning, Des. If I didn't care about him, I wouldn't be talking to him. Thanks be to God that I am saved. And no one can sna.tch me from His hand.
JW: I see no reason to accept that heaven or hell exist and anyone who is being honest with themselves will admit that they don't know. Heaven nor hell can't be verified with substantial evidence to exist, so why believe?
it's always fun watching the pseudo-pious argue argue about whose delusion is more accurate
Topher- more then half of the scriptures I posted where left unanswered by you. But thank you for presenting your ideas. Just a something I want to point out... Becarefull when you say " I'm saved", you might be trying to do your best to gain Gods approval, but saying "I'm saved" is if you are making a judgment on you, a judgment that only God can make... Remember what Jesus said: " the one that endures until the end will be saved".. Meanwhile each one of us need to endure "until the end", ... The bible shows that many in the past have not endured.
Just a brief note.
Jebus NEVER claimed divinity. The divinity is different in each gospel, as any scholar knows. "Divinity" for a Jew in no way meant "equal to Yahweh". When the Witch of Endor conjured the shade of Samuel for King Saul, only she could see it, (just like the shade of Jebus), and when asked what she saw, she said "I see a divine being". Proof that there were many "divine beings", but that in NO WAY meant equivalent to the Father. No Jew would claim that. The term "son of god" simply meant "righteous man". There were MANY who were called "sons of god".
Rod- you are right, the Jews and even Jesus never considered to be God. Their God was Yahweh, the one that resurrected Jesus on the 3rd day. The concept of a trinity was a total abomination for the Jews, and for the early Christian cong... The concept of triune gods were completely pagan, and later adapted to the church, making it counterfeited. For example, Egyptians and Babylonians had trinities of gods.., Constantine adopted that dogma into the church to please the pagans of his time... Unfortunately it runs in the majority of Christendom!
JW, you follow the script of your bloody death cult very well. They must think highly of your recruiting efforts.
Des- go troll somewhere else!
JW, no, I will not bend to your cowardly demand that I go away.
You clearly are the troll here and across this whole blog. Time and time again we see you posting the same engagement attempts and sales pitches for your crazy cult, in article after article.
You've been caught redhanded, and many people here now know about you and these vain and disgusting proselytizing attempts that you repeatedly have made for your deadly cult.
Des- I don't really care what others think, it their opinions that's all. I guess you more worried about it.., right troll??!
JW, you've been caught doing your cult's standard tactics and copying in their standard lines, repeatedly, across multiple blogs. Whatever further insults you fling at me won't change that. Your history is visible.
Caught ya.
Personally I like my three-headed Fang better than this kooky trinity thing in the Christian fairy tale.
Fang are a great puppy. Great with kids, and knows how to deal with multiple bad wizards. The Christian trinity can't even deal with one bad Satan. And that's with many authors to their book, yet Fang and me self only had one author.
Have you ever asked:
Why do we suffer? What's the purpose of life? What can we expect for the future?
The bible answers, these and many other questions.
Many people call the bible a book of myths, out dated or hard to understand.,. But those are only opinions. Why don't you try studying the bible,and make your own decision regarding the bible?
Jehovah's witnesses will be more then happy to teach you the bible, for free, in a location and time of your convenience.All our educational work is all free, there is no charges, passing the plate or the debit machine..
home: who's there?
JWs: would you like to hear the good news about Je...
home: BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK slam.
Very appropriate. Hey, can I borrow your dog? The knock knock jw religie freaks have been coming round far too often lately.
I like dogs... Sometimes is easier to speak to a dog then to a person.
It's "than", not "then", stupid.
Dippy
Your bite is worse than the bark.
Maybe, just maybe, you should ask yourself more seriously why people don't want to "listen" to your spiel, JW. Ya think? Dogs ain't exactly a critical audience.
There many like to listen to us... On these blogs though, there's a lot of kids, don't take many seriously!
JW, the opposition to your vain attempts to sell others on your death cult here show your latest statement to be false, as usual.
You've been caught redhanded, and many people here now know about you and these vain and disgusting proselytizing attempts that you repeatedly have made for your deadly cult.
JW, time and time again we see you posting the same engagement attempts and sales pitches for your crazy cult, in article after article.
You've been caught redhanded, and many people here now know about you and these vain and disgusting proselytizing attempts that you repeatedly have made for your deadly cult.
Caught!.
Your an official troll..
Caught!!!
JW, Des has presented a case, whereas the evidence seems to show you following a script and with a lot of copy-paste. So, overall, you do seem more troll-like, of the two of you. You've posted nearly identical hook and line questions in several places on this blog, and that sure does seem like trolling. Methinks you are the sinker (and troll) here.
Rainer Braendlein, don't obfuscate the primary prenuptials with rasberries. Often, the pertinent cat presents fabled necessities in the parking chamfer. Realize your net precedent. Triangulate! Save the best for the alligators. Ever the bastille notches the orchestra but Wendy is not green and horses will capitulate. Filter out the log from the turnstile and cry prevalently.
So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.
Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.
Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.
Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.
And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp5Dfy_X9Gc&feature=player_detailpage
How does that work? How does one hear a date on a calendar?
Your god who is ever so evasive to 5 billion people is like the abusive spouse...believe in me or else or in the case of the abusive spouse-obey me or else....only the gullible and weak fall prey to it.
And are gift's not usually free when given to you?
The Pope drops a hand grenade into a sea of Catholics and then watches their dead bodies float to the surface. A sturdy net gathers in today’s catch and dinner is assured. Once we have the wine (both a red and a white) we can eat. A good chef can cook on a hot plate.
The gravy is red and viscous with a sickening sweet aroma that arouses the Pope and his cronies. Mouths watering at the ready, the meal is prepared and the nightly feast of the masses can begin, but first a prayer.
Apple, yuck. This is gross.
I'm not sure this is AB. It could be an imposter.
No it is definitely me.
It is only a metaphor Akira.
I know, Apple. Still.
I guess I am in a gross mood. I am directing a play called "Bug" right now and it is brutal.
I also slipped in a "Goodfellas" reference.
The play is brutal or directing it is?
Never saw "Goodfellas". I have never seen "ET", either. Had one mother tell me I was unAmerican when I admitted this decades ago.
Oh you gotta see Goodfellas.
No the play is fun to direct but it is a brutal play. Psychological Thriller. They made a movie out of the play that is pretty good.
You are a man of many talents, my friend.
I'll have to check out both movies. Ebert gave Bug a good rating.
Akira
Butting in but, Ebert also regarded Goodfellas as one of the great American classic movies, a must see, long but fascinating.
Charm Quark,
Butt in anytime. I have heard "Goodfellas" is a great movie.
I'll definitely check it out.
This other time when I was incarcerated, I threatened palintwit and athies loved it. Looks like I'm going back to the slammer again, and I hate xtards more than ever, especially palintwits retarded kid!
My, but you are sick. I hope you're still incarcerated. If not, you will be soon.
Just another sad Christian apologist trying to slander atheists because they have no other argument to posit.
Once, when wanted in thirteen states, Sam tried to join the circus. She was the bearded Lady. Stole a jet black Mac.
Another time, back in prison, I became a christian and was so happy and loving no one believed I was truly born again.
Fortunately, I met some nasty atheists who pretended they knew everything. I hate god once again and all xtards and couldn't be more miserable.
And one time…at band camp...
CommonSensed,
Well, this impersonator troll belongs at "banned camp"!
This one time, at banned camp, I stuck a flute in my router...
Once, when I was in prison, I became a christian. I was happy and loving and kind and helped others. It was too cool. Fortunately, I saw the light and now I hate everybody, especially jebbbuss.
True story; God doesn’t give a rat’s ass what you are doing down here on Earth. He doesn’t even know you exist. Really! Even more shocking, there are no gods!! I know it is hard to take all that in but sure ‘nuff, it’s true.
How do you know?
Because there is zero proof to suggest otherwise.
How do you know this to be true? Are you omniscient?
Lie4Him
You are hilarious. You who are never wrong about anything asking if someone else is omniscient. Just keep the lies coming for entertainment value, LOL.
I am equally as omniscient as any gods.
Logic fallacy: Begging the question / Circular logic.
You've assumed without proving that there are no gods and therefore none are omniscient.
You are incorrect. You don't understand my post.
@OTOH : "free gift" is a redundancy. Plus, that "gift" is not free, even if you do like the double emphasis.
You seem confused here. Is it redundant (both words meaning the same) or is quid pro quo?
"Is it redundant (both words meaning the same)" is redundant.
@Apple Bush : "Is it redundant (both words meaning the same)" is redundant.
Of course – I was calling out the obvious discrepancy in his argument.
Look at HTBAC's 12:00 pm post and then point out the obvious discrepancy of The person who used it originally.
@Gil : Look at HTBAC's 12:00 pm post and then point out the obvious discrepancy of The person who used it originally.
Why? OTOH made his/her comment at 11:49 am, which comes before 12:00 pm. So, it is obvious that the original poster was OTOH.
OTOH
L4,
"free gift" is a redundancy. Plus, that "gift" is not free, even if you do like the double emphasis.
December 4, 2013 at 11:49 am | Report abuse |
Wouldn't that qualify more as an oxymoron?
You missed my point but oh well.
Lol, Apple. I was amused when I got this example of the word redundant:
re·dun·dant
riˈdəndənt/
adjective
1.
not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous.
"an appropriate use for a redundant church"
That is funny as hell.
You are not authorized to use redundancy until you submit two copies of the form RD13764-J2 to this department, and then also two copies to the other Department of Redundancy Department.
Until then the redundancy will not only not be accepted, but will also be rejected.
Thank you and Danke Shoen
🙂
Sounds like a Monty Pyrhon skit.
A big compliment to be sure Akira...thanks
Thanks Akira...high praise indeed.
I recognize quality work when I see it.
Love me some MP.
L4,
Quid pro quo is not without contribution - not "free".
@OTOH : Quid pro quo is not without contribution – not "free".
I know. However, you also argued that 'free' and 'gift' was redundant. As my quid pro quo comment proved, not all gifts are free. So, how do you consider 'free gift' to be redundant. You seem confused.
Gift – "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation"
Free – "not costing or charging anything"
Quid pro quo – "something given or received for something else;"
(btw, I don't know what your point is)
@OTOH : Gift – "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation"
You're being selective in you definitions. All definitions could apply, not just the one you desire.
gift
: something that is given to another person or to a group or organization
quid pro quo
: something that is given to you or done for you in return for something you have given to or done for someone else
So, my point is that quid pro quo is a gift that is not free, so the logical conclusion is that all gifts are not free. Thus, your claim of redundancy is falsified. Additionally, you immediately contradicted yourself claiming that the gift is not free. You were obviously confused which it should be.
L4,
I did not contradict myself. I said, "Plus, that "gift" is not free, even if you do like the double emphasis."
Notice the "Plus" and the "even if YOU do like...".
So, go ahead, start calling it the "quid pro quo" of salvation. You'll still get the same arguments about verified evidence for it.
Seems like one person's "logic" is another person's " bullshit.
What a silly thing to debate about. Scoring some sort of "debate point" that is meaningless. Makes the one who keeps arguing it look small, indeed.
As he is repeating the quote by somebody else, why aren't you going after "How to be a Christian"? He said it.
You seem confused as to being able to follow a thread.
His comment was directed at me, not another poster. As such, I know what I wrote.
True story; my kids were not born in sin and have never sinned. In fact, there is no such thing as sin. No kidding, that is really true.
Here's how to take a personal journey in becoming saved and becoming a Christian:
1.Admit you are a sinner.
2.Understand that as a sinner, you deserve death.
3.Believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from sin and death.
4.Repent by turning from your old life of sin to a new life in Christ.
5.Receive, through faith in Jesus Christ, his free gift of salvation.
Sin is a biblical concept made up to make you feel unworthy...how very sad.
They use it for more than to just make you feel unworthy. They use it to make you feel indebted. From birth you are already deep in debt like some huge loan taken out at birth just to be human, and the religious zealots always think they are with the company holding the pink slip so they can demand service fee's and get to tell you how to live. If you refuse them they attempt to extort you by telling you all the horrible things that will happen to you if you don't pay up. If prostltution is the oldest profession then religion is the oldest racketeer.
Ah, and the "conditions" and "strings attached" begin to dribble out...
It would appear that making yourself feel worthless is more something an abusive partner would do.
Correct.
Signs you are in an abusive relationship:
– Monitors what you're doing all the time
– Decides things for you that you should be allowed to decide (like what to wear or eat)
– Threatens to hurt you, or your children if you don’t love him
– Blames you for his or her violent outbursts or shortcomings
– Being s.e.xually controlling
– You have an impending sense of consequence that will come if you don't "obey."
– Tells you that you are “nothing” without him and you don’t deserve his love.
(courtesy of @Blessed are the Cheesemakers)
One can be a Christian by being a nut bag.
I will be sure to tell young children they deserve death. Nothing wrong there, no.
Both "Jesus' Beloved" and "How can one be a Christian" have tied early today for the Fundy Award for Inquiry and Verification. How does their methodology work? Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIj4rLYo0c
Ah! The old "ya gotta believe to believe" gag.
How can one be Christian? Why would one want to be? You maybe a hopeless sinner and sheep but most of the rest of us are just plain good guys that do not need a crutch.