 |
|
|
|
 Mexican Archbishop, Norberto Rivera Carrera has called on parishioners to report extortion to authorities.
December 4th, 2013
11:56 AM ET
Archbishop: Mexican cartel threatened Catholic seminaryBy Rafael Romo and Catherine E. Shoichet, CNN (CNN) - The threatening calls reportedly came one after the other to Mexico's main Catholic seminary. Callers, claiming to be from one of the country's feared drug cartels, offered an ominous warning: Pay up if you value the safety of your priests. "They called several times. They identified themselves as the Familia Michoacana, but who knows?" Cardinal Norberto Rivera, archbishop of Mexico City, revealed at a Mass this week. "I spoke with the authorities. We made the appropriate report. Because they wanted us to pay. Because if not, they would kill one of us. They wanted to extort 60,000 pesos ($4,600)." Reports of extortion have become increasingly common as drug cartels expand their reach in Mexico. But public denouncements of such attempts are rare. FULL STORY
« Previous entryPope: I was once a bar bouncer
|
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
Is that a yarmulke he is wearing?
No silly, that is called a "zucchetto".
What is the difference? Both are worn as a honor to God, a sign of piety.
Was not NAFTA supposed to end all this stupidity?
Nope.
It just spreads it a little wider and thinner.
Have you ever asked:
Why do we suffer? What's the purpose of life? What can we expect for the future?
The bible answers, these and many other questions.
Many people call the bible a book of myths, out dated or hard to understand.,. But those are only opinions. Why don't you try studying the bible,and make your own decision regarding the bible?
Jehovah's witnesses will be more then happy to teach you the bible, for free, in a location and time of your convenience.All our educational work is all free, there is no charges, passing the plate or the debit machine.
Yay!! This drivel prompted all sorts of entertaining exchanges when the very same thing was posted in that other story. Looking forward to the entertainment that is about to commence here!
AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD
Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)
"Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."
Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;
Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).
Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As do BO and his family)(As do Biden and Ryan)
The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.
Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.
Jesus didn't like proselytizers. Look it up – it's in your bible.
Could you give proof of a scripture?
home: who's there?
JWs: Have you ever asked...
home: BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK slam.
Have you ever asked:
Why do we suffer?
Nope
What's the purpose of life?
Nope
What can we expect for the future?
Nope
The bible answers, these and many other questions.
Yep, just like the answer to "what is 43 x 72" is "purple"
JW, you are delusional
The Archbishop is a made man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXoJoHvho5M&feature=player_detailpage
Continued 5: Final
This is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity that must be understood properly if you want victory in your life. Believing that God controls everything renders a person passive. Why pray and believe for something better? Whatever God wants will come to pass. That simply is not true.
The Lord is the answer to all our problems. He is not the problem.
Christianity is not the "correct" and "only" way. It's one of many human-crafted variations on religion, with none being any better than any other.
He said CHRIST is the only way... and imo he's right. Respectfully.
Is that another "no true Scotsmen" argument? Christianity is defined as the followers of christ.
Key words are "IMO". Buddhists think they have the way, as do Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims (as well as the many, mmany sects of Christianity). That's the thing about faiths, no one is any more or less credible than the rest.
Yes thanks, that is indeed what christianity is, following the teachings of Christ. IMO, you are welcome to your O. Doesn't mean your O is correct.
Colin, not all saying Lord, Lord will be recognized by the Lord. There is but one faith with Christ as its cornerstone. Thst being said, it will be up to Him whether we worship in spirit and truth. So who are we to continue to allow people of faith to be persecuted based solely on their religion?
We are commanded to love one another, our neighbors as ourselves.
You are also commanded to sacrifice a goat, and to not eat shellfish. Love your talking snake story too. At least your religion keeps you off the links on Sunday morns, so there is some good to it.
The "Lord" is not the problem...people believing there is a lord is the problem. Because they then start forcing their beliefs on others when there is absolutely no reason to think that the belief in any "lord" has any basis in reality.
It is just as likely that we actually ARE in the Matrix, and everything was programmed this way.
"Whatever God wants will come to pass. That simply is not true."
-------
If that is true, sir, then God is not God.
Lawrence: Certainly, you would agree the Bible says that God wants us all to benefit ourselves and inherit the Kingdom of God. That's His will... but even He knows that inherent sin will prevent many from fulfilling His will.
Again, its up to us, not a predisposition.
That's the beauty of having two totally inconsistent positions – (A) God is in charge of everything; and (B) God gives us free will. You can select the card you want to play.
Card 1. God is sovereign over all nature and controls it
Card 2. God elects not to intervene to give man free will
Card 3. God is kind and loving and WILL intervene and perform miracles to save people
Card 4. God will punish sinners
Card 5. God moves in mysterious ways
Then, whenever any aspect of life needs explaining, you just choose your appropriate card and play it.
For example, "Why did this tornado happen" – Play card 2 or 5
"Did you hear about the statue (or baby or group of people) who survived" -Play card 1 or 3
“Why do good things happen to bad people”- Play card 2 or 5
“My prayers were not answered"-– Play card 2 or 5
“My prayers were answered” – Play card 3
“Why were my prayers ignored” – Play card 2,4 or 5
Colin, you just don't get it. Maybe you don't want to get it... you have your choice. Make it a good one.
It was god's choice to build and sustain an everlasting torture pit of fire. He chose to make it and thinks it is good to torture people forever and ever and ever.
It was god's choice to make a universe so fragile that one little twist of one woman's wrist caused the whole thing to go into "nuclear meltdown" of sin.
It was god's choice to make sin so debilitating and allow it in his creation.
It was god's choice to slaughter everyone on the planet in a world-wide flood when he could have just performed some other supernatural miracle to solve the problem in a more merciful manner.
It's god's choice to be such a dovchebag azzhole, and he obviously enjoys it.
you just don't get it.
---
What doesn't he get? It's just inconceivable to you, that another human being may be different than you, isn't it? I'd guess you don't particularly care for people who are different from you.
"You just don't get it" is a phrase used by people without an idea or argument. It's tantamount to saying, "you're not me, and I CAN'T see it any other way than how I do now!! Waaaaaaahhhhhh!!"
Not at all. In fact, I believe in tolerance. Colin doesn't have to be like me. In contents, he missed the point and went off on a rant. Its his choice to disagree just as it is my right to my own beliefs. That's hardly worth getting in a tizzy about.
The Missus, Mrs. Travis that is, has already established her very high tolerance here. Tolerance for alcohol, that is.
At least she is staying on thread today. So far. The evening is young, though, and the bottle is not yet drained.
Ben, sounds like you have a problem with women... to each his own, Troll.
Mrs. Travis,
Election and Predestination are doctrines taught all over the scriptures... Here's just a few references.
Romans 9:14-29, Ephesians 1:3-6, 11-14, John 17:6-12
So, we know that not all men CAN be saved, because we know that not all men ARE saved – we know that many people die and go to hell, and since God is sovereign, we know that it must be in God’s plan that not all men be saved. If God had ordained that all men COULD be saved, then indeed all men WOULD be saved, because if God had ordained something to come to pass, and it didn’t, then God would not be sovereign.
God will do things that he does not directly take pleasure in, in order to bring about His own glory, which IS His good pleasure. (Ezekiel 18:23, 32, 33:11) God is not pleased with the death of the wicked, and yet the wicked still die. God is sovereign, therefore the death of the wicked will glorify God by demonstrating His justice and wrath against sin. God wishes for all to come to repentance, but we know that not all people come to repentance. God is sovereign, therefore the unrepentant will glorify God. (2 Peter 3:9)
And in Isaiah 53:10, God the Father crushes the Son, and the Father is pleased to do it IF He would render Himself as a guilt offering… In this conditional statement, we read that if the Son would offer Himself as a guilt offering for sin, then the Father is pleased to crush Him, because doing so would accomplish His own glorification.
BUT
That does not justify what has been called "double predestination."
“Holy Scripture most especially highlights this eternal and undeserved grace of our election and brings it out more clearly for us, in that it further bears witness that not all people have been chosen but that some have not been chosen or have been passed by in God's eternal election– those, that is, concerning whom God, on the basis of His entirely free, most just, irreproachable, and unchangeable good pleasure, made the following decision: to leave them in the common misery into which, by their own fault, they have plunged themselves; not to grant them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but finally to condemn and eternally punish them (having been left in their own ways and under his just judgment), not only for their unbelief but also for all their other sins, in order to display His justice. And this is the decision of reprobation, which does not at all make God the author of sin, but rather its fearful, irreproachable, just judge and avenger.”
–>Canons of Dordrecht, First Head (Chapter 1) Article 15
Continued 4:
God is sovereign in the sense that He is paramount and supreme. There is no one higher in authority or power, but that does not mean He exercises His power by controlling everything in our lives. God has given us the freedom to choose. He has a plan for us. He seeks to reveal that plan to us and urge us in that direction, but we choose. He doesn't make our choices for us.
In many instances, it is our wrong choices that bring disaster upon us. In other cases, our problems are nothing but an attack from the devil. In some cases, natural forces of an imperfect world cause us pain. Our tragedies are never the judgment or correction of God. Jesus came to give us abundant life. The devil came to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10). Don't ever get that confused. If it's good, it's God. If it's bad, it's the devil
That's sounding very Olsteen-ish....
I'm reminded of a quote from Martin Luther:
“But man cannot be thoroughly humbled until he comes to know that his salvation is utterly beyond his own powers, counsel, endeavors, will, and works, and absolutely depending on the will, counsel, pleasure, and work of another, that is, on God alone. For if, as long as he has any persuasion that he can do even the least thing himself toward his own salvation, he retains a confidence in himself and does not utterly despair in himself, so long he is not humbled before God; but he proposes to himself some place, some time, or some work, whereby he may at length attain unto salvation. But he who hesitates not to depend wholly upon the good-will of God, he totally despairs in himself, chooses nothing for himself but waits for God to work in him; and such an one is the nearest unto grace, that he might be saved. Even the faith by which a man believes is God-given. These things therefore are openly proclaimed for the elect: that being by these means humbled and brought down to nothing, they might be saved. The rest resist this humiliation; nay, they condemn the teaching of self-desperation; they have a little something that they may do themselves. These secretly remain proud, and adversaries to the grace of God."
...Sorry, "Osteen." I spelled his name wrong.
I actually agree 100% with the quote you've provided.
It doesn't change that the fact that God gave man power and authority in the earth. He gave us power and authority to heal the sick, cleanse the leper, raise the dead. (In Jesus' Name).
If we don't exercise this power and authority, who will.
That's why many pray asking God for things He's already given them authority over. You have to speak to your mountain to move it in Jesus' name.
DO you really think you have the power to raise the dead? In anyone's name??
HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA!
In Mark 16:17-18, Jesus said all true believers would flow in the miraculous: "And these signs will follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." If a Christian's life isn't supernatural, it's superficial.
The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead resides in every believer.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Wow, another theist who can't tell the difference between fact and opinion
How incredibly pompous
Jesus' Beloved,
OK, I see now... Miracles were a sign gift given to the apostles to authenticate them as messengers of the true gospel. Since we now have the Bible, miracles have ceased. I'm not discounting God using miracles if He desires, but it is not normal today, nor is it needed...
The gifts of healings, like the other sign gifts, were temporary, given to the church for authenticating the apostolic message as the Word of God. The Great Commission does not include a call to heal bodies but only the call to heal souls through the preaching of the gospel. It is not that God became no longer interested in men’s physical health and well–being or that the church should have no such concern. Medical work has long been a God–blessed part of Christian service and is one of the cutting edges of modern missions. But God’s healing work, whether through medicine or miracle, is no longer an authenticating sign, and He no longer endows His church with such gifts.
As did all the others with the gifts of healings, Paul used it sparingly and only for its intended purpose. It was never used solely for the purpose of bringing physical health. Paul himself was sick, yet he never healed himself nor asked a fellow gifted believer to heal him. Paul’s dear friend and fellow worker Epaphroditus had been terribly ill and would have died but for God’s intervention. “God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow” (Phil. 2:27). God miraculously healed Epaphroditus, but if the apostle had freely exercised the gift of healing, he would not have had to make a special plea to God. When Timothy, another co–worker, had stomach trouble and other ailments Paul did not heal him but rather advised him to drink some wine (1 Tim. 5:23). Trophimus, still another associate, Paul “left sick at Miletus” (2 Tim. 4:20). He did not exercise the gift of healing except as necessary to confirm the power of the gospel, not to make Christians healthy.
If you believe that you have the power of miracle worker, then if you are not in the hospitals ridding them of their sicknesses then you are the most cruel of human beings.
1 Corinthians 12:14-31 – Not all believers are apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, workers of healings, workers of helps, administrations, speak in tongues or interpret them. Don’t desire showy gifts, desire love which is greater than these. (paraphrased) (See also 1 Corinthians 13)
1 Corinthians 14:1 – Desire true spiritual gifts – those that are divinely given for the building up of the church, not showy ones that only build up yourself (paraphrased)
Jesus' Beloved,
A great book for you to check out is "Strange Fire" by John MacArthur. It talks about the fallicies within charismaticism that places more emphasis on desiring physical miracles (tongues, healings, financial health, etc.) rather than the true working of the spirit that heals souls..
Lawrence of Arabia: " Since we now have the Bible, miracles have ceased."
The Bible wasn't put together until hundreds of years later, and even then it was unavailable to anyone except the clergy until the 16th century or so. What was supposed to be convincing people during that huge period of time besides threats and fear?
Continued 3 for LoA:
Man has been given the authority over his own life, but he must have the Lord's direction to succeed. Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." God created us to be dependent upon Him and our independence is at the root of all our problems. As if it wasn't bad enough for man to try to run his affairs independently of God and His standards, it has been made even worse by religion teaching us that all our problems are actually blessings from God. That is a faith killer. It makes people totally passive.
James 4:7 says, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." This verse makes it clear that some things are from God, and some from the devil. We must submit to the things that are of God and resist the things that are from the devil. The word "resist" means, "Actively fight against." Saying "Whatever will be will be" is not actively fighting against the devil.
Amen to that.
JB,
Your bible quotes dont mean JACK!
Until you give evidence that anything in there is "divinely inspired" then it is just another book collecting dust.
Continued 2 for LoA:
God has a perfect plan for every person's life (Jer. 29:11), but He doesn't make us walk that path. We are free moral agents with the ability to choose. He has told us what the right choices are (Deut. 30:19), but He doesn't make those choices for us. God gave us the power to control our destinies.
Typical teaching on the sovereignty of God puts Jesus in the driver's seat with us as passengers. On the surface that looks good. All of us have encountered the disastrous results of doing our own thing. We desire to be led of the Lord, and teaching that nothing happens but what God wills fits that nicely. However, the Scriptures paint a picture of each of us being behind the wheel of our own lives. We are the one doing the driving. We are supposed to take directions from the Lord, but He doesn't do the driving for us.
When speaking of the Sovereignty of God, generally there are two camps, one will claim that it is all God, and none of man, which results in fatalism, and the other camp says it is all of man and none of God, which tends to make man into a "little god."
The truth is that the scriptures present God as being sovereign – that is, having absolute rule, but man is also responsible for his sins. So how do we reconcile these two seeming contradictions? Well, honestly, we don't. We don't because the Bible doesn't try to reconcile them, it just teaches both of them.
What theologians have done then, in order to try to better understand the concept was to develop the idea known as "compatibilism" or "Concurrence." This refers to the coterminous actions of God and human beings. We are creatures with a will of our own. We make things happen. Yet the causal power that we exert is only secondary. God’s sovereign providence stands over and above our actions. He works out His will through the actions of human wills, without violating the freedom of those human wills.
I respectfully disagree, as what I've presented fits neither of the camps you've proposed.
I read the Word of God, anything that doesn't line up with is word is not from Him and therefore I reject it.
Stay Blessed.
"I read the Word of God, anything that doesn't line up with is word is not from Him and therefore I reject it."
-----------
I agree with that statement. Then perhaps I do not gleam from your post what your specific position is?
If our actions are not "all of God," or "all of man," or, recognized as being "in concert with the wills of BOTH God and man," then what is left?
Isaiah 46:8-11 – “Remember this, and be assured; recall it to mind, you transgressors.“Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure’; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.
I read the Word of God,
----
The "word of God", huh? You must not have very much faith in the power of God, you seem to think he can't create words himself, that are perfect and stand the test of time. Just look at the number of different versions for the reference you mentioned above: http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/30-19.htm All those variations, but it's still the infallible word of God?!? Wow! You make Topher look sophisticated.
Madtown,
So what's the difference in those versions you see? Look at the passage that I quoted above. Do any of those versions change the meaning of the text?
The fact that there are any variations at all, means that it was NOT crafted by God. Or, do you think God does imperfect work? Is it up to man to edit the work of God?
Madtown,
No, the translations do not amount to imperfections.. They amount to the differences in translation from Hebrew to English, and a translator's desire to make either a literal translation or a paraphrase...
"I read the Word of God, anything that doesn't line up with is word is not from Him and therefore I reject it."
There you have it folks...willful ignorance. ABSOLUTELY nothing indicating his magic book had anything to do with any gods, but he CHOOSES the path of ignorance....
Get off your computer then...it was created using logic and science...no magic at all, unless of course you don't understand how a computer works, then I guess it would appear to be magic.
a translator's desire to make either a literal translation or a paraphrase...
---–
LOL. Again, what possible right would a human have to edit the infallible work of God? Wouldn't that tick God off? Isn't God powerful enough to make any necessary translations? Further, isn't God powerful enough to publish it in a language we all understand to begin with? Why do you doubt the power of God?
Madtown,
"Again, what possible right would a human have to edit the infallible work of God?"
---------–
You misunderstand what the actual differences are in the various versions of the Bible... The differences amount to this:
"My name is Lawrence" versus "Lawrence is my name."
Now, those are different ways of saying the exact same thing, and if you've read ancient Hebrew, you'd understand why there can be some variance. I really don't see what the issue is???
If you've found a translation that deliberately attempts to change the meaning of the Bible however (once again, going back to the quotations of the church fathers for reference) like the NWT does, then you know that particular "version" is no version at all, but "another gospel" spoken of by Paul, which is no gospel at all. But, if you know what the scripture actually says, then those false creations will be readily apparent.
Lawrence of Arabia:
Anything God does in the earth must be done through a covenant with a man, because it's man that has authority and dominion in the earth. That's why Jesus died, to restore to man all that was lost in the garden. So God does not control a person's action.
When God created man, not only was he made in the very image of God, but he was then given unconditional authority over this earth.
Genesis 1:26 says, “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
He didn’t say to them, “Now as long as you follow my leading and as long as you do what I want you to do, I will let you have dominion over the earth.” There was zero qualification for this power and authority. God spoke it and that was it.
God says in Psalm 89:34,“My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.”
Why do Christians care about money?
Aren't they going to live forever, after they die of course, in the cosmos and not need the material possessions they cling so desperately to?
Just threaten them back with your hell. That should work, right?
Re-read the last sentence... public denouncements of such acts are rare. The same thing goes for countless other governents. Religious persecution goes largely ignored.
So does persecution by the religious.
As evidenced by Fox's Book of Atheist Martyrs... Oh, wait a minute...
Atheists executed by religious inst/itutions aren't "martyred" since atheists don't tend to deify one another.
Heathens, heretics and pagans have always been thought of as sub-human and thus undeserving of anything but conversion or death.
Ever hear of the Judas Cradle? A lovely torture device created by Christians and thus given a Christian name.
Since I refuse to get into yet another of what you call "no true Scotsman" arguments – I will just say this: evil men do evil things.
And evil gods do greater evil than any man could perform, like slaughter an entire planet's worth of men, women, children, and animals. (Even the cute, fluffy ones!!!) Oh, and evil gods make torture pits of eternal fire to torment people forever and ever--an action far, far, far more evil than any human could ever do.
I think criminal gangs tend to target vulnerable groups. This has happened in Mexico where these types of gangs targeted tourists.
As Mexico is by and large RC, I think this was done more in the name of easy crime more than in religious persecution.
Most crimes against tourists are committed by the poor. The Cartel hardly fits in that catagory. Respectfully.
Oh, I tend to think of cartels as criminal gangs.
Travis,
You may not understand this but many people dont give a carp about religious nut jobs who choose to go on being "persecuted" for their sillly beliefs.
Join the real world and give up your Bronze Age belief system.
can't the priests just pray for safety?
I know empathy is not your strong suit, but what if atheists were persecuted, robbed of their homes and their families extorted for money in an attempt to protrct their loved ones, only to find them butchered for body parts sold on the black market...
Isn't god supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent and therefore capable of doing anything it likes? So why wouldn't it protect its supposed representatives on earth?
Is that what you think God should be... our own personal bodyguard? No wonder you choose not to believe. These are man's problems executed against one another and should be addressed by men and their governments.
Oh I get it, god gets the credit for the good in the world and despite supposedly creating all in this world is not responsible for creating the bad or protecting from the bad.
In santa,
God is sovereign, and He ordains whatsoever comes to pass whether we deem the sitation "good," or "bad." And all things ordained are so for the glory of God.
Honestly, what good is there to give anyone credit for? Man rules man to his own detriment. Our streets are full of violence; is that God's fault or our own.
You claim that a god created the universe and all in it. That by definition must include evil and disasters, so clearly god must be responsible for the bad (even if you trot out the old "free will" argument – god supposedly did that).
"is that God's fault or our own?"
-------–
Answer? Yes. I like how the Westminster Confession of Faith puts it:
"God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of secondary causes taken away, but rather established."
While it is true that God's providence controls all the acts of human beings, still, that does not destroy man's "free agency." God does not control man's acts by forcing them to do things against their will, but by so ordering the facts and citc.umstances of their lives, and the moral state of their hearts, that they voluntarily, of their own accord, without any constraint, always do exactly what God has foreordained that they are to do.
-westminster Larger Catechism, God's Providence – Question 14
"That by definition must include evil"
-------–
God didn't create evil in the same sense that a light bulb doesn't create darkness. Evil is described as an absence of righteousness, and when man chose to willingly disobey God, that was to introduce evil. God did not create it, but He allowed it because He has a purpose for it.
Lawrence: "God does not control man's acts by forcing them to do things against their will, but by so ordering the facts and citc.umstances of their lives, and the moral state of their hearts, that they voluntarily, of their own accord, without any constraint, always do exactly what God has foreordained that they are to do"
Good grief, what a pointless puppet existence you must feel we lead, then.
"Good grief, what a pointless puppet existence you must feel we lead, then."
-----------
Only if one subscribes to fatalism, which of course is in error.
George, I agree. There are no acts that are pre-ordained. We make our own choices snd reep the benefit or suffer the consequences. Reeping whst we sow, etc.
Mrs. Travis,
Respectfully ma'am, if one uses the Bible as the ultimate authority, then one is forced to conclude that all things are within the absolute rule of God. He governs and controls the actions of all of His creatures for the purpose of His own glory. Even sinful acts of men are under the control of God’s providence. (Acts 2:23, Psalm 145:17, Psalm 104:24, Isaiah 28:29, Hebrews 1:3, Matthew 10:29-31, Genesis 45:7-8, Romans 11:36, Isaiah 63:14)
Lawrence we don't live in the Kingdom of God, yet. Nor are we living under His rule. Because of Him the rulers keep ruling and the judges judge until the appointed time, respectfully.
"we don't live in the Kingdom of God, yet. Nor are we living under His rule. Because of Him the rulers keep ruling and the judges judge until the appointed time."
---------
Indeed, but without getting too much into a subject that theologians have discussed for thousands of years, I'll just list two verses...
1 Chronicles 29:11-13 – Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Yours is the dominion, O LORD, and You exalt Yourself as head over all. Both riches and honor come from You, and You rule over all, and in Your hand is power and might; and it lies in Your hand to make great and to strengthen everyone. Now therefore, our God, we thank You, and praise Your glorious name.
Isaiah 46:8-11 – “Remember this, and be assured; recall it to mind, you transgressors.“Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure’; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.
Absolutely Lawrence, we are to recall that God has Sovereign authority over all the heavens and the earth. But His sovereignty was challenged in the Garden of Eden. The second coming of Christ is to restore that Sovereignty back to his Father in its original condition, perfect; free of sin and death. Again at the appointed time. Respectively.
But since God is sovereign, which we both agree that He is, then how can anything occur outside of His control? Since His sovereignty is defined in scripture as being "absolute rule." Yes, the devil is active in this world, but he is God's devil. Remember that he had to get permission from God before he could torment Job.
Lawrence, ALL of Gods creation including angels and demons alike exercise free will. The god you speak of sounds more like a dictator
"but what if atheists were persecuted"
lol, is that supposed to be a joke? Atheists have been one of the most persecuted sections of society for thousands of years. The first one to be maligned and accused were those who were open about their lack of faith in any God/gods and thus targeted by the religious pius who in their humble righteousness would be forced to take pity on the unbelievers by putting them out of their misery and unburdening them of their goods and property. Just because they are not getting tarred and feathered today in America does not mean the vile persecution of atheists has disapeared, it's still alive and well within the hearts of the selfrighteous.
I believe you. But shouldn't all form of religious persecution be eradicated?
But christians are not "persecuted, robbed of their homes and their families extorted for money in an attempt to protrct their loved ones, only to find them butchered for body parts sold on the black market..." because of their religion.
btw the vast majority of christians killed in any religious conflict over the last few decades has been by other christians.
World wars included, yes. And no doubt persecution exists in one Christian religion verses another in a quest of power and control. But that certainly doesn't make it right.
@Mrs. Travis
Throughout the history of "Chistendom", pagans, atheists, heathens and other assorted heretics have endured such torture at the hands of the Church innumberable times.
For 1500 years, Christians outlawed atheists from the universities, or any teaching careers, besmirched their reputations, banned or burned their books or their writings of any kind, drove them into exile, humiliated them, seized their properties, arrested them for blasphemy. They dehumanized them with beatings and exquisite torture, gouged out their eyes, slit their tongues, stretched, crushed, or broke their limbs, tore off their breasts if they were women, crushed their scrotums if they were men, iimprisoned them, disemboweled them, hung them, burnt them alive...
Only in the 21st Century have non-believers been free to voice their opinions without fear of such reprisals.
Again, I believe you and I'm sorry, but if nothing is learned from our past, are we doomed to making the same errors over again?
Why do Christians care about money?
Aren't they going to live forever, after they die of course, in the cosmos and not need the material possessions they cling so desperately to?
Some may think it funny but groups like the Cartel, Al Q and Poco Harem have been exhorting money; mostly from Christians attempting to avoid persecution for years. No doubt, this is a different method but the fact that innocent Christians are the targets for these scams is not funny and shouldn't be ignored.
Why should religion have anything to do with it? The fact that PEOPLE are being extorted against should be a problem.
Or, in your worldview, would it be OK if the cartels were targeting muslims?
Okay... people. But the fact is that many "people" in Muslim countries suffer these atrocities based solely on their religion everyday.
And, no, it wouldn't be okay whether it were a Christian, Muslim, Jew or Atheist imo.
These people CHOOSE to be xtians in an Islamic country. Too bad for them.
Many are nationals who convert to Christianity. Which is why many convents, missionaries and even Doctors supplying aid fall victim.
You really do have a persecution complex. The cartels do not target for religious reasons – I'm sure if asked most cartel members in Latin America would claim to be christian specifically catholic.
You can say you are whatever you want. Catholics don't generally target their own churches. In my opinion the Cartel worship money, power and the drug market. Actions speak, etc.
You said "the Cartel, ... have been exhorting money; mostly from Christians attempting to avoid persecution for years."
I was replying to that.
I do agree that "the Cartel worship money, power and the drug market", but that doesn't alter the fact that they do not target people because of their religion and most in Latin America would claim to be christian.
You are mixing my words like you do to other people. I suppose one could say the athiests have their own form of persecution, harmless as they are, on a Belief blog occasionally frequented by people of faith.
"Pay up or your priests won't be saved."
"Pay up or your souls won't be saved."
They know a scam when they see one. Believe without evidence and put your donation into the basket. See you next week.
"Pay up if you value the safety of your priests."
I think that they should "pray up" and see how effective that is against bullets.
Cartel vs church: just one organized crime group fighting another. Quelle surprise, as they say.
Right on, probably the truest post I'll read all day.
Reblogged this on Handicap and commented:
What is the devil trying to do?
The devil is forming a cartel with Santa and the Easter Bunny.
The Tooth Fairy is already on board as the accountant.
The devil is up to no good and so are you! Maybe you should watch what you say. Even though I believe you are an atheist. The Lord may reach down and strike you with lightning if you do not straighten up. LOL