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Satanists want statue next to 10 Commandments
A Ten Commandments monument erected outside the Oklahoma state Capitol.
December 9th, 2013
01:46 PM ET

Satanists want statue next to 10 Commandments

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
[twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN']

(CNN) - Lots of lawmakers have been accused of devilish behavior, but Oklahoma's state capitol may become the first to actually have a monument to Satan.

If a New York-based group called the Temple of Satan gets its way, a statue of the Evil One would sit next to the recently erected 10 Commandments monument on state capitol grounds.

"They said they wanted to be open to different monuments," said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Temple of Satan, "and this seems like a perfect place to put that to the test."

Greaves and some legal experts say the Constitution is clear: the government can't endorse one particular religion. So, if a state capitol has a monument to one faith, it must allow monuments to others as well.

The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, said Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves.

Last year, the Temple organized a gay and lesbian kiss-in at the gravesite of the mother of anti-gay preacher and activist the Rev. Fred Phelps. It also held a rally at Florida's state capitol in support of a law that allows "inspirational messages" at public school assemblies.

"It allows us to spread the message of Satanism," which centers around respect for diversity and religious minorities, said Greaves.

Oklahoma legislators voted to erect the Ten Commandments monument in 2009, using private funds donated by Rep. Mike Rietz, a surgeon and Southern Baptist deacon.

Rietz declined to comment on the Satanists' proposal on Monday, citing an separate and ongoing dispute with the American Civil Liberties Union over the Ten Commandments monument.

Oklahoma state Rep. Bob Cleveland told CNN that he's not in favor of the Satanist's proposed statue.

"I believe that only monuments that reflect Oklahoma values should be allowed on capitol the capitol grounds," Cleveland said in an e-mail on Monday.

But if Christians and Jews can have their monument to the 10 Commandments, then Satanists must be allowed to erect their own statue, said Brady Henderson, legal director of the American Civil Liberty Union's Oklahoma chapter.

"We feel like the Satanic Temple has a very strong argument to say that, if the state allows one religious monument, you have to allow others," Henderson said.

Oklahoma's statehouse grounds already has monuments honoring its heritage and Native American history, said Trait Thompson, chair of the Capitol Preservation Commission.

"Individuals and groups are free to apply to place a monument or statue or artwork," Thompson said.

The commission then determines whether the proposal abides by its standards and votes on whether to approve it.

Greaves said he's received the required forms from Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Commission and is working on a design that will meet its standards.

"We want something big and bold that will be able to stand up to the weather or whatever other kinds of assaults," that may target the monument, he said.

"My favorite idea right now is an object of play for children. We want kids to see that Satanism is where the fun is."

The Temple of Satan created a Indiegogo fundraising page on Monday, but have thus far only publicly raised $150 towards its goal of $20,000.

Not all Satanist groups see the fun in political provocations.

Magus Peter Gilmore, head of the Church of Satan, which was founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, said he believes in strict separation of church and state.

"Rather than placing multiple 'advertisements' for various religions, we think it best for the (10 Commandments) monument to be removed to private property and that there be no objects supporting religion of any sort placed on the statehouse grounds," Gilmore said.

Earlier this year, Gilmore's Church of Satan squared off against a British group of Satanists over abortion rights, after activists shouted "Hail Satan" to drown out anti-abortion activists at the Texas state capitol.

READ MORE: Satanists square off on abortion (Yes, really)

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Belief • Church and state • Culture wars • Devil • Satanism

soundoff (3,610 Responses)
  1. Think for yourself

    My guess is that the irony is lost on the religious right.

    December 9, 2013 at 3:16 pm |
    • WhoCares

      right... because Joe Biden isn't a practicing catholic and Harry Reid isn't a practicing mormon... get lost, partisan hack.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
      • Think for yourself

        II'm not a democrat or a fan of the two you've just mentioned. Your response, as well as Joseph's have proven my point.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
    • Joseph

      My guess is that you've no idea what "irony" means.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        It's like ra-eee-aaaaain on your wedding day.
        It's a free ride when you've already paid.
        It's that good advice that you just didn't take.
        And Alanis doesn't know the meaning either.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
        • Joseph

          Ha, touchee 🙂

          December 9, 2013 at 4:32 pm |
      • In Santa we trust

        You don't think that OK government will resist the idea? When they do, therein lies the irony.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
        • bspurloc

          exactly u can meet all the guidelines. it still comes down to a biased VOTE. they will declare something like there isnt enough room etc etc...

          December 9, 2013 at 3:40 pm |
    • JLS639

      I promise you they recognize the possibility that a religious group they dislike would do this. This is an old problem with religious monuments on public property. Some Christian dominionists* oppose public property displays for this reason. Most of the folks who have promoted religious monuments on public property have thought about this.
      *I know this is not how they describe themselves, but it is the only word we have for those who want more socially conservative, protestant Christianity in government.

      December 9, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      All irony is lost on the right.

      December 9, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
  2. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    My nights of sweating and struggling over the Word of One True have allowed me to see that there would be no law if not for Satan. No knowledge for humankind of good and evil. It is very appropriate that a statue of Satan should be built in memory of the establishment of law. I suggest a talking snake.

    December 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      John 3:14
      And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

      December 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
      • HotAirAce

        Logical fallacy – appeal to alleged authority.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:33 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          If you can't trust the 2nd hand words of flaming foliage, what can you trust?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Talking animals?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Donkeys maybe, but definitely not snakes.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
        • Mobius665-just-a-close-friend-of-666

          lol!

          December 9, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
      • bspurloc

        and as christian clergy feared their religion wasnt sticking. they themselves create this "Satan" to create fear mongering and disdain towards non believers

        December 9, 2013 at 3:41 pm |
      • Robert Brown

        The Serpent of bronze in Numbers 21 is a well known image for Christians because of its use by Jesus in the Gospel of John. Jesus discussed his destiny with a Jewish teacher named Nicodemus[10] by referencing a passage in Chukat of the Torah. Jesus gave a direct comparison between the raising up of the Son of Man and the act of the Mosaic serpent being raised up. Charles Spurgeon asserted that in this passage, Jesus was referring to his forthcoming crucifixion, and demonstrating the significance of the cross as spiritual healing from the curse of sin.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan

        December 9, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
      • Joseph

        Eric Holder in Moses. Don't you watch MSNBC like true American loyalists (to quote Chris Matthews verbatim)?

        December 9, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
    • GOP_R_Traitors

      Hmmm, if Satan punishes the wicked, then doesn't that make Satan a GOOD GUY?

      December 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm |
      • Mobius665-just-a-close-friend-of-666

        Dude, punishing people is Gods job!

        December 9, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
  3. Sunflower

    Why not?

    December 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
  4. Red

    The flood gates are open now. Everyone is gonna want a statue now. I'm glad I'm monotheist and therefore don't deal with statues. There's gonna be statues and idols everywhere now. Hmmm, sounds so familiar for some reason. Last days are approaching!

    December 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • Answer

      The freaks keep on saying "end of times" on every topic. Hilarious.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The End it always nigh, isn't it?
      Tell you what – the day I see the 7 headed, 10 horned, amphibious bear beast or a swarm of armour clad locusts with teh face of a man, the hair of a woman, the mouth of a lion, the tail of a scorpion and tiny little crowns on their misshapen heads as was prophesied in Revelation, I'll drop to my knees and beg Jesus for forgiveness.
      But since the End Times were suppsoed to have happened 2,000 years ago I wouldn't hold my breath.
      “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.”
      —1 John 2:18

      December 9, 2013 at 3:17 pm |
      • JAMES OLIVER

        Personally I'd swear off doing multiple hits of acid on an empty stomach.

        December 9, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
    • Madtown

      Last days are approaching!
      ----
      Technically true. With each passing day, we all get closer to the day we leave this place.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • AJ

      Ah yes...the end times. Really looking forward to the next one. Enjoyed all the others...

      December 9, 2013 at 3:54 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Mono theists don't deal with statues? I guess the RCC, and many other cults, didn't get the memo.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • GOP_R_Traitors

      We want a SPAGHETTI MONSTER statue.

      December 9, 2013 at 6:11 pm |
  5. Justice

    A monument to Satan in Oklahoma? Good luck with that! And what about the atheists... are they not worthy of one as well or would they have to share?

    Ridiculous!

    December 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • Answer

      Watch it happen and eat your words.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
      • Justice

        Yeah, right. A statue of Satan... why not a statue of Timothy McFay for white supremists while we're at it?

        December 9, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
        • Answer

          It's open season to everyone. You know what the word "everyone" is?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Is white supremacy a religion? Perhaps it's a christian cult?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
        • Fan2C

          How about a statue of "God" holding a bloody dove at the entrance to a leprosy clinic?!

          December 9, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
        • Ralph_in_FL

          His name was McVeigh.

          December 9, 2013 at 6:15 pm |
      • Jared

        I wouldn't last long in the Oklahoma climate. They'd just be wasting their money.

        December 9, 2013 at 4:41 pm |
    • Translation of Justice's post

      Only my beliefs should he allowed statues and monuments. And I get to spew bile about all the others and call them rubbish. Oh, and I have not the slightest shred of evidence supporting my beliefs, so I am right.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
      • Justice

        I can speak for myself and don't need a translation. Thanks anyway.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Explain why a christian symbol is acceptable and others not.
          Explain why any religious symbol on a public building should be allowed under the Constitution.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
      • Sol Invictus

        Only MY symbols should be on government property

        December 9, 2013 at 3:23 pm |
    • Akira

      They opened the door.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
      • Justice

        Thanks, Akira

        December 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      No more ridiculous than a statue to any god or religion.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
      • Justice

        A nation founded upon Christian principals... what's next? On Satan we trust?

        Note all these professed atheists who don't believe in anything, support a monument to Satan? He's in the Bible, too, you know????

        December 9, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
        • doobzz

          Who said anything about supporting Satanism? I support the Constitution. Either all are allowed or none.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Perhaps founded on christian values but officially, legally secular now. If you want only christian symbols, I suggest you initiate a const!tutional amendment to adopt the dead jew zombie death cult as the USA's official religion or to otherwise turn the USA into a theocracy. Good luck with that!

          December 9, 2013 at 3:28 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          The question is why should only christian symbols be allowed on public buildings when the constiitution explicitly says no state religion?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          In order to highlight the hyprocrisy, self-professed atheists would likely support a monument to any other supernatural being. That it is your God's chief adversary simply serves to drive home the point that much more poignantly.
          The USA is not founded on the Christian religion.
          This is made quite clear by the Treaty of Tripoli, circa 1797:
          "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—"

          December 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          And since you mentioned it, in god we trust should be removed, or augmented by similar thoughts for other cults.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:30 pm |
        • Joey

          There shouldn't be any monuments, but as long as there is a Christian monument I am open to putting up a monument for any religion that wants one.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:50 pm |
  6. LKRice

    Official word from the head of the Church of Satan on this topic.

    http://news.churchofsatan.com/post/69495555098/lets-you-and-him-fight

    December 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
  7. tet1953

    They blew it by allowing the first statue. Door's open now, and it will end up either remove the first one or allow this one. It will go to SCOTUS I bet.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
  8. Live4Him

    Who is surprised? Christians shouldn't act like those afraid to have their faith scrutinized. We should be ready to defend our beliefs, be it polytheism, Satanism or atheism. Only those whose faith is weak need be concerned about challenges.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • Answer

      Religious freak.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "There's something pathetic in the world today
      And I don't know how it all began.
      As if all the shame and punishment
      Will finally make me understand.

      A word means nothing wanting action.
      Intentions are valuable as deeds.
      And a wound can dog you for a lifetime,
      Unless it only makes you bleed.

      Everybody knows what's in their heart is right"

      – Dr. Greg Graffin

      December 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
      • Live4Him

        @Doc Vestibule : – Dr. Greg Graffin

        Logic fallacy – appeal to authority.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
        • Answer

          You're too stupid. Just look at the quote itself.

          A person is posting a quote of what someone thought up of. Where is the appeal?

          You freaks are hilarious.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          If the above quote is a logical fallacy then every quote from The Babble must be too.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @L4H
          Since when is quoting someone's artistic expression an appeal to authority?
          I wasn't citing Dr. Graffin as if what he wrote is a scientific fact (if I wanted to do that, I'd quote his PhD thesis as I have in the past).
          I just think he rather eloquently echoed my own views.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Doc Vestibule : Since when is quoting someone's artistic expression an appeal to authority?

          Everytime. Is their opinion / 'artistic expression' any better or worse (i.e. more factually valid) than yours? Any better or worse then mine or others on the forum? No. So, why bother to post? To appeal to his authority. Only the evidence matters, not their conclusions.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Is quoting myself better?

          "Faith is lazy thinking cuz committees can’t make truth
          Intoxication’s great escape has costs that soon accrue
          Eternal love’s a jewel alchemically unkind
          Flayed flesh won’t help to sanctify
          The lack of peace of mind with him (within)

          Some hate where you come from
          Some condemn the way you live
          While others pray the part they play
          Will hasten Armageddon"

          – Dr. Humoladonne Q. Vestibule "Easy Answers" from the album "Go Gnad Go!"

          December 9, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia

      Some of the best evangelism springs from apologetics. Those who are the most antagonistic to the things of God are the ones who will ask the questions out of contention that leads to discussions where the gospel is preached.

      "And some preach Christ out of contention, meaning to add affliction to my bonds, but therein rejoice for the Word of God is preached!"

      December 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
  9. JW

    To worship satan you don't need to be in a satanic church. The bible says that the devil rules this world, so there are many things people and churches do that identifies then as the Sons of the devil!

    December 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
    • Youtube video - "Context!!!!!!"

      True – one could spread the hatred of hom o phobia.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm |
      • bspurloc

        then one, would be a christian priest... feasting on young boy juice

        December 9, 2013 at 3:45 pm |
    • Answer

      The freaks continue to spread their disease. There is no devil nor any gods.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
      • WhoCares

        Why do you chastise those who are of a different belief than you? Just let them be... And, if you come back and say "well, the christian freaks are the one who blah blah blah..." be the more mature person in that situation and go on with life. Internet anonymity has saved you from your glory days of being picked on, i presume.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
        • GOP_R_Traitors

          The freaks should NOT be allowed to benefit from tax-exempt status. My tax dollars are going to support their existence by them being tax-exempt. Let them pay their fair share of taxes. All religions should.... just like every other magician has to pay taxes. That is what religion is, suspension of disbelief.

          December 9, 2013 at 6:21 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Angels, demons, ifrits, cherubim, seraphim, satyrs, grendels, frost giants, etc. are mythological.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Madtown

      The bible says...
      ----
      "What's the bible?"

      – signed, your human equal who God decided to place in a region of this world with no christianity of any type

      December 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
  10. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    Merry Winter Solstice/Axial Tilt Day!

    December 9, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      That's the 21st surely?

      December 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • JW

      Christmas is a pagan festivity. And satan was able in a move of a genius, to introduce it in the church, and camuflage it with Jesus instead of the God-Sun.. A genius!! He made billions worship something he created!

      December 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
      • Fan2C

        OK, sure, then "Satan" could have just as easily written or inspired the entirety of the Old Testament too... and ooooh, later certainly the Book of Revelation, where he supposedly offs himself in the end for dramatic effect!

        Hook 'em by whatever means necessary and sit back and cackle at the centuries of strife and dissension. And pop in once in a while with updates like the Quran and The Book of Mormon and The Watchtower just to keep the pot stirred.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm |
        • Sol Invictus

          A better written 'Satan is coming' story is 'The Wheel of Time' series...

          December 9, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
        • JW

          Fanc- The bible says that faith would not be possession of everyone. If you want to cultivate faith you need to work hard in order to adquire it.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
      • Keith

        What are you even talking about? Paganism has nothing to do with Satan.

        December 9, 2013 at 4:15 pm |
      • G to the T

        You mean like when Satan met Saul on the road to Damascus and convinced him to lead people away from the true faith?

        December 10, 2013 at 9:33 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      An enjoyable Xmahanukwanzisisturnalia to all!

      December 9, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
      • Frank Costanza

        Festivus for the rest of us!

        December 9, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
  11. JW

    Satan will soon have to face punishment:

    Rev 20:1,2,10- " And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years...
    And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

    December 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      out of interest, where is this dragon when it is seized?

      December 9, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
      • JW

        Cedar- all your questions have it's answers in the bible. Read the context, and read other scriptures that give answers to your questions.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          Hey, you posted the text, I assume you must have this information to hand.
          You must know the meaning in order to be able to post it surely?

          December 9, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
        • JW

          Of course I do. But I prefere leave you the work. You need to start studying the bible, and not wait for others to "feed you" all the time.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          'Of course I do. But I prefere leave you the work. You need to start studying the bible, and not wait for others to "feed you" all the time.'

          really? you are going to use the 'i know but im not going to tell you' response?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          What other text or evidence should be used to verify the bible?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:20 pm |
        • bspurloc

          why do priests treat young boys like Turkeys... basting them injecting them with their own juices

          December 9, 2013 at 3:47 pm |
        • GOP_R_Traitors

          "Studying" the BUYBULL. HAHAHAHA
          Yeah use reason "study" to read the worst written piece of fiction ever cobbled together, which "teaches" you to suspend your disbelief in the very thing you are being called to use to "study" it (reason.)
          Absolute tie people in knots these freaks.
          Satan must be a good guy since he punishes the wicked.
          It is really a disservice to your gawd that you refuse to use the reason that your gawd supposedly gave you. What an insult to your gawd.

          December 9, 2013 at 6:26 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia

      As well as the rest of mankind who is deceived by him.
      "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15

      December 9, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      ' I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'

      And who exactly has been given the authority to judge? I thought it was supposed to be god that did the judging? And they are reigning with christ? who are they reigning over?

      December 9, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
      • Lawrence of Arabia

        There's been many great book expounding the book of Revelation. If you're really interested, take a look at "Because the Time is Near" by John MAcArthur. It's a great verse-by-verse exposition.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
        • Alias

          You must explain the problems with the bible away verse by verse, because if you look at it in its entirety it is clearly babble.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Alias,
          You're just trying to be contrary. Have you attempted to look at the Bible in detail before?

          December 9, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          And what makes their interpretation correct?

          December 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Because you don't "interpret" the Bible. You read it. The Bible interprets itself by explaining itself. Pretty much everything in the Bible can be cross referenced, and, taken in its intended context, it can be understood. That's not interpreting.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
        • Alias

          Yes, I have looked at the bible before. I was raised catholic. I attended Sunday School.
          It is when christians run out ot good arguments that they fall back to "You just don't understand".
          I do understand. Your god does not exist.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      If god knows it can defeat satan, why not do it now and get rid of all the evil in the world.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
      • Robert Brown

        In Santa we trust,
        That is the ultimate plan, to rid the universe of evil, including satan. Only God knows when that will be, it seems the purpose is to allow creation to choose sides. What side are you on?

        December 9, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
        • Arnie

          Robert, frankly, your god seems to be quite the information-withholding dipstick, so I'm not for him. What a jerk. And you worship that? Sheesh. You must be pretty stupid.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
        • Alias

          Wrong again Robert.
          His plan is to put all the evil in one place. I think your religion calls it hell.
          It would be much more loving and merciful to destroy it, but your god will torture it for ever instead.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Which imaginary creature do I support? Neither.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Observer

      "Satan will soon have to face punishment"
      - News story from THOUSANDS of years ago. Nothing new here.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
  12. Dyslexic doG

    why doesn't god just show himself? That would put an end to all this discussion.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • Topher

      He already did that.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
      • Honey Badger Don't Care

        Yea, he can only do it once.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
      • Topher

        He did it many times after the resurrection.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
      • Joey

        Why would people 2000 years ago, get more and better evidence than the people alive today? All I ask for is the same amount of proof that Thomas got.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
        • Topher

          "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

          December 9, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
        • Professor Marvel

          Topher,

          Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. I, the Great and Powerful Oz, have spoken.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
      • Alias

        No, he didn't.
        Your god has never revealed himself to a large number of people.
        Well, not without killing them all anyway.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • JW

      One of the reasons is that he wants all to serve him with. Sincerity...

      December 9, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
      • Arnie

        Why does your omnipotent deity need "service? Frankly, he sounds like a jerk. And you must be pretty stupid and weak to worship that.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      I think part of the reason that he doesn’t reveal himself completely, visibly to everyone, is because of his experience with humans. He revealed himself to the children of Israel and they disobeyed, they repented and he revealed himself again, they rebelled, and so on, over and over again. At some point, his glory left the earth and you will notice the people started referring to him as the God of heaven.
      Of course, then his son walked the earth and revealed himself to thousands of people. He made a way that we can all be reconciled to God and went back to heaven. Then he sent his holy spirit as a witness on the earth from that time till now.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
      • Alias

        Actually this is one of the things in the bible that really is just stupid.. If he revealed himself, wouldn't the people who saw him follow him? Why would Satan or anyone else rebel if he actually knew god?

        December 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          Pride.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          And they talk about free-will but why would god create a being like satan, designed to do nothing but serve him, with free-will in the first place?
          And why would god need servants anyway?

          December 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
        • Alias

          @Robert Brown
          Pride? Maybe you could make that case for Satan, but it is just silly to think a group of people would be so full of themselves as to reject a god they had seen. Especially stupid to say they would do it more than once.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          You would think that they would obey God, especially since he made himself obvious to them.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm |
      • cedar rapids

        Are you suggesting that an all powerful supreme being got disheartened by the responses to his showing himself?
        And why wouldn't he know what the responses would be and planned accordingly?

        December 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          He did forsee, he knew before creation that the only one capable of redeeming mankind was the sinless lamb of God.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          'He did forsee, he knew before creation that the only one capable of redeeming mankind was the sinless lamb of God.'

          Rather bizarre way of doing things isn't it? Don't you think that if you were a faultless supreme being that you would get it right from the very beginning?

          December 9, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          By right, I suppose you mean, heaven on earth. This isn't heaven, just the training ground.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          'By right, I suppose you mean, heaven on earth. This isn't heaven, just the training ground.'

          Well leaving aside for a moment the question of what was the point of setting up a system of a 'training ground' and heavenly afterlife (I mean at least the vikings had a reason for their afterlife, to help the gods fight in the final battle), what I was on about is why god would not create a system whereby he wouldn't need to go all Avatar and 'sacrifice' himself to supposedly save us from himself in the first place.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus are considered the way by which fallen man can be accepted by our most holy God. The wages of sin is death and there can be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. God will not look on sin. Jesus paid our sin debt so that when God looks on us, he sees the righteousness of Christ.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:26 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          and what you just posted makes absolutely no sense.
          paid our sin debt? do what now? how exactly did he do that?

          And lets not forget that in the story at the end of the day jesus was basically god's avatar and then poof, was put up and around 3 days later, so not exactly a big sacrifice there.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
        • Get Real

          "there can be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood"

          What a monster you worship, Robert, especially since there is not a scintilla of verifiable evidence that any such thing is true.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:39 pm |
        • Robert Brown

          cedar rapids,
          In the OT, the people sacrificed animals to cover their sins. The death of Jesus removed all the sins of everyone who believes on him.

          He did rise from the dead after three days. It was a tremendous sacrifice. God had to turn his back on Jesus as he took the sins of the world. He died a horrible physical death of the body, but the pain and sacrifice was the separation as well.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          He allegedly rose from the dead. No verifiable evidence to support this claim, or the claims of all the things that allegedly happened in conjunction with the alleged resurrection, has ever been produced.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:49 pm |
        • Yeager

          R Brown,

          Again what was the great sacrifice. He allegedly had a couple bad days and now sits at the right hand of god for ETERNITY. Pretty small price to pay for something he himself put in motion. Lots of people have died horrible deaths, scared and alone. None of them knew what was in store for them. And according to you some of them are probably burning for eternity in hell. Now if Jesus was burning for eternity in hell that might be an actual sacrifice worthy of acknowledging.

          December 10, 2013 at 2:03 am |
      • Madtown

        because of his experience with humans.
        -----
        He created us as we are. He shouldn't be surprised or too upset.

        December 9, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
      • JAMES OLIVER

        Well if God was to take the stars and write "Believe in God or suffer for all of enternity" I suspect most people would believe. I am and atheist and I would believe. People don't believe as there is not direct evidence that makes even a particle of sense.
        God needs a better PR department. Kind of slack in that area.

        December 9, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
    • Paul

      Be humble, find God.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
      • Answer

        Be humble and find your humanity.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
        • Christian

          Psalms 10:12 Arise, O LORD; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
          Psalms 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:
          Matthew 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
          Matthew 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
          James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
          James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

          December 9, 2013 at 4:13 pm |
      • igaftr

        be humbe and acknowledge no one knows if gods exist.

        December 9, 2013 at 4:08 pm |
  13. Lawrence of Arabia

    If one believes in and follows Satan, then they also believe in the Bible, for that is where we learn about Satan's creation, fall, and eternal cursing. If one believes in Satan and the Bible, then they also believe in God. If they believe in God, but choose to follow Satan, they are of all people the most foolish.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • Honey Badger Don't Care

      Obviously you dont understand Satanism.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
      • Lawrence of Arabia

        Only in the theological sense – please tell me what I got wrong...

        December 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
        • Alias

          You said they believe in the bible.
          They do not.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Then if they don't, how do they know about Satan?

          December 9, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
        • Alias

          Not everyone believes in your religion.
          Satanists have their own religious texts.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      all part of the same fairy tale.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Alias

      Nope. Satanists have a different set of bronze age mythology they think is the way to live.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm |
    • K-switch

      Laveyon Satanists are actually atheists that use satan to represent human nature.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
      • Honey Badger Don't Care

        Spot on K-switch! They are extreme humanists.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia was gay

      If you had actually read the article, you would see that they don't believe in satan as a being. It's a metaphor.

      Read. It helps you not make a fool of yourself.

      December 9, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
      • Lawrence of Arabia

        I did read the article. But it would seem that they are being a bit silly there. They say that they don't believe an enti.ty is an enti.ty, but they believe in it still... That's like saying: "I believe that Obama is real, but he's not president. I like the idea of him more than him, so I'm going to believe in the Obama idea..." What does that even mean?

        December 9, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Christian

      16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
      18 ¶ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

      John 3:16-21

      December 9, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
      • HotAirAce

        Logical fallacy – appeal to alleged but unproven authority.

        December 9, 2013 at 4:09 pm |
      • Rundvelt

        If God is all powerful, why does he have to resort to such a silly workaround to his own rules. Couldn't he just say "Ok, it's changed" and move on?

        December 10, 2013 at 12:09 pm |
    • southmost

      Satanists don't believe in the biblical portrayal of God and Satan. They think of Satan as a symbol of the struggle of individualism against authoritarianism. Their beliefs favor personal responsibility over charity, self-determination over predestination, and respect for diverse opinions rather than dogma. In the Satanist view, God, as he is portrayed in the Judeo-Christian tradition, is a sociopath who inflicts death and hardship without explanation or obvious reason, expects to be universally praised in spite of this, and demands adulation by threatening eternal torture. Satan, by standing opposed to such authority, represents universal human rights and freedoms.

      December 9, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
      • Saraswati

        Agreed, for the majority of people who call themselves Satanists including this one. There are, however, small groups of theistic Satanists with a variety of beliefs.

        December 9, 2013 at 7:35 pm |
      • So what

        Holy what batman? So you're saying that you guys believe God exists, you just don't like him? And you've taken Satan and defined him as some sort of neutral progressive? Why Satan? Couldn't you find a more appropriate mascot? Hijacking someone from the Bible & re-writing everything about him seems like an odd way to get a symbol. I don't even want to start with how you've ignored Satan's inherent evil and that whole God is love thing. Judging from your moniker, I'm guessing it's just more convenient for you to dismiss religion.

        December 10, 2013 at 12:53 am |
  14. Alias

    Let me remind you all that the true Satan worship started before christianity. It was a time when polytheism was normal and worshipping a lesser/different diety was not anti-anything.
    It is not fair to group the real religion in with the rebellious youths that use Satanic worship just to upset authority figures.
    It is also wrong for the article to say the 'Evil One'.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • doobzz

      And who decides what constitutes a "real" religion?

      December 9, 2013 at 3:14 pm |
    • doobzz

      Scratch that, Alias. I misread your post. 🙁

      December 9, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
  15. Wade

    "Satanism is where the fun is."

    –An eternity with satan in hell does not sound like fun.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Joey

      If Satan is in charge of hell it is probably one big party. Why would he punish people for being against god?

      December 9, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
      • Topher

        Who said he's in charge?

        December 9, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
        • Joey

          That is why I said if, who is in charge of hell then? I imagine it is a lot like the South Park episodes, if it exists.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
        • Topher

          Satan is going to be a prisoner there just like everyone else.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
        • Joey

          So who is in charge of hell at the moment, or is no one in hell yet?

          December 9, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
        • Topher

          God's in charge. And yes, people are in hell. But at this point only their souls. Eventually it will be physical.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
        • Sea Otter (Leader of Allied Atheist Alliance)

          Satan: Then, at midnight for dessert, I was thinking we could bring out a giant chocolate fondue fountain.
          Hotel owner: Oh yeah. P. Diddy had his birthday here a couple of years back and he had one of those.
          Satan: Oh, screw that then. I don't want a fondue fountain if P. Diddy had one.
          Satan's minion: Does it matter?
          Satan: Yes, it matters! I don't want to do it if Diddy did it.
          Satan's minion: How about a donut machine?
          Satan: [to hotel owner] Did Diddy do it?
          Hotel owner: Diddy did do it.
          Satan: A full ice cream bar!
          Hotel owner: Diddy did it.
          Satan: Dammit, what didn't Diddy do?!

          December 9, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          'God's in charge. And yes, people are in hell. But at this point only their souls. Eventually it will be physical.'

          In his everlasting love and mercy, apparently

          December 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm |
        • Paul

          For some, living with an all-powerful, all-loving God would be hell.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:51 pm |
        • Joey

          I might be willing to give heaven a shot if you can promise me that there won't be any Southern Baptists there.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm |
        • Topher

          cedar rapids

          "In his everlasting love and mercy, apparently"

          Right. He demonstrated His love for you by taking the punishment you deserve on the cross. But He's also just. And if you reject His offer, He'll just give you what you deserve. Justice.

          Paul

          "For some, living with an all-powerful, all-loving God would be hell."

          True. That's why He won't force you into His presence. If you don't want Him in this life, you won't want Him in the next.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
        • cedar rapids

          'Right. He demonstrated His love for you by taking the punishment you deserve on the cross. But He's also just. And if you reject His offer, He'll just give you what you deserve. Justice.'

          If you believe that eternal torture and damnation for not believing someone exists is justice then sure, I guess you can claim that. Personally I think that's more than a little extreme.

          And seriously, another of the emperor's new clothes expressions.....'He demonstrated His love for you by taking the punishment you deserve on the cross'......he did what now? he did exactly what? put some substance to it rather than some nebulous claim.
          Its a great saying that means exactly nothing. You may as well say 'you will never be lost because if you look around you, there you are'.

          December 9, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
        • Christian

          God Bless You Topher

          December 9, 2013 at 4:03 pm |
        • HotAirAce

          Allegedly demonstrated his love by allegedly taking punishment, 'cause there's no verifiable evidence for any of The Babble's supernatural claims.

          December 9, 2013 at 4:07 pm |
      • So what

        He doesn't punish people for being against God. Hello....

        December 10, 2013 at 12:40 am |
    • Alias

      Very close minded of you Wade.
      Not everyone believes as you do. That is kind of the whole point people are making with this.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
  16. Youtube video - "Context!!!!!!"

    This is the kind of thing that happens when conservatives start twisting our freedoms for their own use.

    December 9, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
  17. Akira

    What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    When you open this kind of door, why act surprised at what walks through it?

    December 9, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Science Works

      Akira

      If I not mistaken – somewhere in Florida has the 10 Commandments and a Big A monument already side by side.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
      • Youtube video - "Context!!!!!!"

        Yeah, but that's not the same as satanists placing a monument next to a Christian one.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
        • Science Works

          Oh but some think the bug A's are the thing with horns !

          December 9, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
      • Akira

        Science, in Chicago, they have a giant "A" prominently displayed near the Nativity and the Menorah.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
        • Science Works

          Akira

          At the Daley Plaza been there.

          December 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Youtube video - "Context!!!!!!"

      Exactly.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
  18. Dyslexic doG

    we could do a statue of the devil and jesus and harry potter riding on unicorns ...

    December 9, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
  19. Dyslexic doG

    let's see how hypocritical Christians are here ...

    December 9, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • Econ302

      How long untill the Pastafarian's get a statue... that's what I'm waiting on!

      December 9, 2013 at 4:58 pm |
  20. cedar rapids

    'Rep. Bob Cleveland, who has said he will introduce a bill that would allow public school teachers and staff to wish one another "Merry Christmas," told CNN that he's not in favor of the Satanist's proposed statue.
    "I believe that only monuments that reflect Oklahoma values should be allowed on capitol the capitol grounds," Cleveland said in an e-mail on Monday.'

    Sorry Bob, but as much as I think this is a silly idea you dont get to decide what Oklahoma 'values' are.

    December 9, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
    • Youtube video - "Context!!!!!!"

      I wonder ... is the best strategy here (for the conservatives) to let the ACLU win so that neither is allowed to have anything, that way making the ACLU appear to be haters of religion? That way they can stay angry at the ACLU.

      December 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
      • cedar rapids

        Yeah but its not as if they need an excuse to stay angry at the ACLU, they just need to hear the initials and its foaming at the mouth.
        Which is bizarre when you think that one of the purposes of the ACLU is to represent the rights of the American people in regards to authority dictating how they should behave.

        December 9, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
      • So what

        Ok then can you remind me of how many Satanists were on the Mayflower?

        December 10, 2013 at 12:42 am |
        • Observer

          So what,

          Probably none. However, those on the Mayflower included the ancestors of the religious fanatics who committed the witch-hunting in Salem.

          December 10, 2013 at 12:47 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.