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 A Ten Commandments monument erected outside the Oklahoma state Capitol.
December 9th, 2013
01:46 PM ET
Satanists want statue next to 10 CommandmentsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Lots of lawmakers have been accused of devilish behavior, but Oklahoma's state capitol may become the first to actually have a monument to Satan. If a New York-based group called the Temple of Satan gets its way, a statue of the Evil One would sit next to the recently erected 10 Commandments monument on state capitol grounds. "They said they wanted to be open to different monuments," said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Temple of Satan, "and this seems like a perfect place to put that to the test." Greaves and some legal experts say the Constitution is clear: the government can't endorse one particular religion. So, if a state capitol has a monument to one faith, it must allow monuments to others as well. The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, said Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves. Last year, the Temple organized a gay and lesbian kiss-in at the gravesite of the mother of anti-gay preacher and activist the Rev. Fred Phelps. It also held a rally at Florida's state capitol in support of a law that allows "inspirational messages" at public school assemblies. "It allows us to spread the message of Satanism," which centers around respect for diversity and religious minorities, said Greaves. Oklahoma legislators voted to erect the Ten Commandments monument in 2009, using private funds donated by Rep. Mike Rietz, a surgeon and Southern Baptist deacon. Rietz declined to comment on the Satanists' proposal on Monday, citing an separate and ongoing dispute with the American Civil Liberties Union over the Ten Commandments monument. Oklahoma state Rep. Bob Cleveland told CNN that he's not in favor of the Satanist's proposed statue. "I believe that only monuments that reflect Oklahoma values should be allowed on capitol the capitol grounds," Cleveland said in an e-mail on Monday. But if Christians and Jews can have their monument to the 10 Commandments, then Satanists must be allowed to erect their own statue, said Brady Henderson, legal director of the American Civil Liberty Union's Oklahoma chapter. "We feel like the Satanic Temple has a very strong argument to say that, if the state allows one religious monument, you have to allow others," Henderson said. Oklahoma's statehouse grounds already has monuments honoring its heritage and Native American history, said Trait Thompson, chair of the Capitol Preservation Commission. "Individuals and groups are free to apply to place a monument or statue or artwork," Thompson said. The commission then determines whether the proposal abides by its standards and votes on whether to approve it. Greaves said he's received the required forms from Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Commission and is working on a design that will meet its standards. "We want something big and bold that will be able to stand up to the weather or whatever other kinds of assaults," that may target the monument, he said. "My favorite idea right now is an object of play for children. We want kids to see that Satanism is where the fun is." The Temple of Satan created a Indiegogo fundraising page on Monday, but have thus far only publicly raised $150 towards its goal of $20,000. Not all Satanist groups see the fun in political provocations. Magus Peter Gilmore, head of the Church of Satan, which was founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, said he believes in strict separation of church and state. "Rather than placing multiple 'advertisements' for various religions, we think it best for the (10 Commandments) monument to be removed to private property and that there be no objects supporting religion of any sort placed on the statehouse grounds," Gilmore said. Earlier this year, Gilmore's Church of Satan squared off against a British group of Satanists over abortion rights, after activists shouted "Hail Satan" to drown out anti-abortion activists at the Texas state capitol. soundoff (3,610 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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The knob on the stair case bannister came quickly at my face. Busted my lip and chipped my big tooth. Laughter bellowed from up the stairs. “Momma’s boy!’ was all I could here through the ringing in my ears. My head ached.
I stumbled to the bathroom remaining careful not to get blood on the gray, filthy carpet. One drop and I would be in for it.
I hid in my room with an ice bag on my lip. Mom loves him, so must I.
Pain is good for you. It helps you to survive so that you can evolve.
Individuals don't evolve, populations do.
You can be a plural noun.
It was in response to an individual's story. I thought the assumption was justified. meh
trinity can be in pain?
the trinity is still in pain and it's pizzed off..
As a nihilist, I reject all of the commandments. Life has no point nor objective so what difference do "commandments" make? Cultures determine right and wrong based on what benefits them the most.
Lol. What a jerk.
jerky about it. It's as informed a view on how things work as any presented thus far.
@oo oo
There is no such thing as "jerks". Even you are completely without relevance and life is the disease of dying.
Are you one of those who would argue that reality doesn't really exist?
If so, you are one short step away from converting to christianity.
On the contrary Alias. Christianity is absurd and I couldn't be any further away from it. You will have to define reality for me, if you expect a reply.
Cultures determine right and wrong based on what benefits them the most.
nazi germany 1939
Why do they not just put there monument up in New York? Why would Oklahomans want a monument that does not represent the beliefs or values of the majority? I believe the Capital has a wide range of monuments that represent Oklahoma well. Why would we want your monument that represents nothing for us? Put it on your state capital.
huh?
Why do Christian missionaries go to preach outside of areas where Christianity is well established? Sounds like Oklahoma needs some exposure to other viewpoints if they're brazen enough down there to go against the Const_itution like this.
Majority doesn't rule in a Secular country. Time to study that Constitution again :-).
Why shouldn't good people get to have a monument instead of evil people?
Why shouldn't the government have to follow its own law that it wrote into its own legal code? Why do you get to say what is evil and what is good? What happens if another religion labels "evil" that which you label "good?"
Why shouldn't people connected to Satan, the embodiment of evil, be considered evil themselves?
Should evil people who are christians be considered evil?
While some things are universally deemed as evil, Satan is only the embodiment of evil according to his enemies, Christians, Jews and Muslims.
"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.” Hosea 13:16
Why would Satanists have a problem with this?
Relativism eh? Look what happens. We get so confused as to what is evil and what is not anymore. There HAS to be a standard..and we see that in law making....If we don't have a standard..laws become too confusing. SO which standard? GODS standard woks best..not those of Satanists who say anything goes practically. There is good reason for Gods standard....it is all for our best interests by one who knows whats best forus.
"GODS standard woks best."
God not necessary.
As soon as you conclusively prove your god exists and is the least bit concerned about lives on Earth, I'll consider living my life according to its rules. Until then, I'll go with the democratically elected legislatures to set our standards.
There is good reason for Gods standard
----
What is God's standard? Where is it referenced and how are we supposed to know what it is?
Trouble is, everyone thinks they're "good people".
Exactly..by who's standard?
Why is it wrong to think you are good if you are good?
Why not think of yourself as being good if you do good things?
Good enough for what? and Good by WHOS standard? Hitler can believe he was good...should we say hes ok ? and allow him to do what he did to the Jews???
Why would anyone think that Hitler was good?
is set up by the same kind of being that created religious "rules" – societies.
that was @brian
Read my post again..I said HITLER thought of HIMSELF as good...and if we had to let people do things cyse they think they are good enough..then should they have allowed Hitler to kill all the Jews cause he thought he was being good? That's why there are standards and laws
and they come from the people.
"No man is a villian in his own mind". Heinlein
Wow ... What is wrong with these people , I sure hope they enjoy being on fire for eternity, because that is what happens to Satans people .... They will burn in hell !
I for one , believe in god ... And for those people that want to mock believers in Christ , you know it's wrong ...but you will not like where your going at the end of time ... And it will be too late! So all you satanists better turn your life around while you still can !!! The devil is nothing but a trickster and you people will fall flat on your face if you think he's going to "good" for you ! He's ruining lots of lives , even family members of mine , sad to say my sisters life is in danger but I'm still going to be that light in hopes that she will change her ways ... Because god can forgive and forget and save the souls from the one that wants to take ur souls and rip them apart . Anyway just hoping that some one in need of help can read this , and hopefully thank me in heaven one day 😉
Thank you for your post, Lisa P. These wretched vile creatures that swarm this blog are obviously the same vile animals that are fornicating every which way to mock our glorious Lord. Don't worry, Lisa, they will soon be trembling at His feet, but they it will be too late for them as they await the cauldron of fire and eternal horrendous suffering. Amen.
Wow, Lisa. Your god would burn people forever for even some minor things that they might have done in their short mortal lives? What a jerk. No, actually, we have stronger words for a vicious being like that: a god like yours could fairly be called an ASS HOLE.
Minor? sir..youhave NO idea who God is..sin is transgression against a HOLY and JUST God..not a person....thereisno such thing s a MINOR sin...ALL sins keep us away from a PERFECT God.....your argument is merely self justification for your own greed and self centeredness
There is nothing perfect here, therefore sir, you are ann ass hole!
Brian, come back when you actually have a case to make -although I doubt that you can make a coherent argument re your sky fairy.
Wow ... What is wrong with people like you who fantasize about people being tortured forever? Keep your S&M leanings to yourself, OK?
I'm a fan if the US Constitution.
Sorry you're not.
Wow, Lisa. Your god would burn people forever for even some minor things that they might have done in their short mortal lives? What a jerk. No, actually, we have stronger words for a vicious being like that: a god like yours could fairly be called an ASS HOLE.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
What did you call me?
Shouldn't god know?
And why didn't you see it coming before it posted?
"jerk" and that was being polite.
yes..again so you can justify your own self serving arrogance. God is NOT this way cause he FEELS like it....it is his very nature! You are having much trouble distinguishing between humans and a deity
Brian, yep, gotta agree with you on that one: according to your bible, your god would be an ASS HOLE by his nature. You are learning. Glad you agree with me.
"....it is his very nature! " And from where did he inherit this "nature"? Isn't he all powerful?
Vile creatures. You have little time. Accept His almighty Love or perish!!
Being a fan of the US Constitution makes me a vile creature?
Lol.
Oh, okay.
Lisa P.
That must be one hell of a vibra tor you have going for you, take a break, you are delusional.
Spend a lot of time on your knees, Lisa?
It will be good practice for servicing the savior, if you drag Jerry Fartwell off of him
Fvck your and your empty proxy threats, gash
Prison.
Just like those idiots cloning boneless chickens. Prison time 4 gud.
Impersonators of Christians don't condemn her either.
How can these vile creatures ignore His clear signs, Lisa? The mark has been put upon the land. His time is near! Amen.
Here you go Light! A nice white jacket with neat buckles! Just put your arms in there and step into this padded room and you'll be all safe...
Lisa: Please seek some medical attention for those delusions and in turn join the 21st century. By your post, if hell is real (LOL) it is you will be suffering there...your imaginary friend does tell you not to judge.
If you read the bible, God actually doesn't burn people forever. This site can tell you more than I can in a comment: http://www.helltruth.com/
‘I'm beginning to think there's great truth in the old saying “Wherever God builds a church, the devil builds a chapel next door.”’
[2001 S. Kendrick Night Watch iv. 134]
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/where-god-builds-a-church-the-devil-will-build-a-chapel#ixzz2n6yDze80
Nah, it's all man-made, all of it.
And sometimes the devil will put appliances right in anyone's home!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JuSfRgh0Vo
I didn't play it so my question: is there a pwoblem with heat resistant co*ckroaches??
If you consider bread to be bugs, I suppose the answer would be yes...
That's not a chappel next door, it is the priest's private quarters.
@Even Ezra
Nope, the devil builds a mega-church, appears on The Rush Limbaugh Show, and throws a Christian rock concert. It's a war between liberal Christians who act according to Jesus's example and Conservative Christians who act according to the example of the Pharisees. Good vs Evil.
Vic, that number of members of your set of cults is down significantly from 30 years ago, which is great news. As society and science and medicine progress, there is less and less that is unknown, for your crazy Christian fairy tales to hide behind.
For example, here is a list of “Ten Commandments for Global Humanism” compiled by Canadian atheist, economist and ethicist, Dr. Rodrigue Tremblay
1- Proclaim the natural dignity and inherent worth of all human beings.
2- Respect the life and property of others.
3- Practice tolerance and open-mindedness towards the choices and life styles of others.
4- Share with those who are less fortunate and mutually assist those who are in need of help.
5- Use neither lies, nor spiritual doctrine, nor temporal power to dominate and exploit others.
6- Rely on reason, logic and science to understand the Universe and to solve life's problems.
7- Conserve and improve the Earth's natural environment—land, soil, water, air and space—as humankind's common heritage.
8- Resolve differences and conflicts cooperatively without resorting to violence or to wars.
9- Organize public affairs according to individual freedom and responsibility, through political and economic democracy.
10- Develop one's intelligence and talents through education and effort.
While they were compiled by an atheist, close to one hundred percent of the people I know, atheist, agnostic and theist alike, would subscribe to most or all of these guidelines. The two themes running through them which are inconsistent with modern Christianity are the idea of questioning and relying on logic to understand the Universe, as opposed to dogma, and a specific rejection of the supernatural. I for one find neither such concept shocking or immoral. In fact, I find them both very positive and beneficial.
Other atheists have tried their hand at compiling lists of ten commandments for atheists or secular humanists, notably Richard Dawkins and the truculent Christopher Hitchens . My favorite 10 Commandments, however, for sheer simplicity of expression and saying a lot by saying little, is that of Zambian born Anthony Grayling :
1. Love well
2. Seek the good in all things
3. Harm no others
4. Think for yourself
5. Take responsibility
6. Respect nature
7. Do your utmost
8. Be informed
9. Be kind
10. Be courageous
In any event, these are a mile above either of the two biblical sets in terms of universal application, sophistication and underlying humility and respect for one's fellow creatures with whom we share this big blue ball.
Excellent lists and comment, Colin. Thanks.
What an idiot. And yet Sam stone thretens Palin and u r silent
all nazis encourage her.
and u girls don't believe in hell
satan ain't sam stone in red tights and a pitchfork. she's everything u dreamed of and more
There are some atheists on here that I wish would follow those.
A religious display is not an establishment of religion. It is free speech.
Thus every religion should get to put up a display, yes?
Which religion would you like to have a display?
All of them. Every last cult.
I have no problem with them having the right to put up a statue ... but I think we're going to get into the problem of the content of some of them.
We would end up with a park full of monuments that would rival Peterhof!
I want a crucifix put up so that the protestants will complain.
Topher
Since you always like to pose questions in many of your posts, here is one for you. Have you ever been to Vegas, Caesars Palace in particular, with all those nude statues of gods and goddesses for everyone to see, including children? What is your take on that, should nude humans in a public place be forbidden?
There's plenty of cruicifixes already up.
No, I haven't been there. But yes, nudity in public should be forbidden.
Topher, if others don't have a problem with your cult's content why would you have a problem with theirs? Or do you think your cult should have an editorial veto?
So a Topher, do you think the nudes in the Sistine Chapel should covered up?
Topher
I kind of thought that would be your answer. You do realize that nude statues exist almost everywhere in the USA except possibly the bible belt. Would you have these banned, including in art galleries/museums? Would you condemn jesus on a stick with his junk hanging out, without the loin cloth?
Run Topher, Run!
HotAirAce
Yes, I agree our Topher will probably run away like the coward he is and so many other creationists when backed into a corner. Pathetic.
"No, I haven't been there. But yes, nudity in public should be forbidden."
You will be glad to hear that the cult of Islam completely agrees with you Topher, they just consider ankles and arms and faces to also be "nude" when not covered. So now we are back to semantics...
Them there should be no problem with putting the satanic monument up, right? Free speech.
With all such cases, I think it comes down to infringement. Your jurisdiction may allow you to light fireworks, but I'll bet they don't allow you to shoot them off at your neighbors' homes.
So infringement trumps rights. Or as I like to look at it, each right comes with a responsibility not to infringe on the rights of someone else. This is why we have no Bible reading in schools. I see no difference here.
And the "Father" of our Constitution understood this. This is why he came to oppose the long-established practice of employing chaplains at public expense in the House of Representatives and Senate on the grounds that it violated the separation of church and state and the principles of religious freedom. (See Library of Congress – James Madison Papers – Detached memorandum, ca. 1823.)
If this is free speech, then the State has no business endorsing any PARTICULAR expression of free speech either.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Satan, the demon of the demented.
The Ten Commandments- A Jewish scribe's (not Moses) summary of the Hammurabi Code and also the Egyptians' Book of the Dead. They should note this on all copies.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can u pls post a source for this? I have heard it often, but would like to read a bit of background from a credible source.
Sure. She'll source it.
Many OT, NT and koran thu-mpers are actually thu-mping the rules and codes of the ancients like King Hammurabi and the Egyptians who wrote the Book of the Dead and who did NOT need revelations from angels or mountain voices to develop needed rules of conduct for us h-o-minids.
"Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . .
.
I have not reviled the God.
I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.
I have not done what the God abominates . . .
I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
I have not blocked the God at his processions."
"The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. 2 The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier docu-ment, rather than vice-versa."
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
AND THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC/SATANIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD
Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney) (for a good review on Satan in Mormonism, see http://www.mormonwiki.com/Satan)
"Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."
Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;
Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).
Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As do BO and his family)(As do Biden and Ryan)
The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.
Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.
who created your god?
Everyone knows that universes, people, matter and stuff has to be created, but those rules don't apply to Gods because they have that certain, oh, I don't know... je ne se qua, you know?
Who needs a god, just make one up? L. Ron Hubbard knew how to get a good scam up and running in a very short time compared to the centuries for Paul the Apostles BS to take root and spread like the plague it is.
U can't prove it
Define god. U can't.
I can.
Who was Christ?
Who was Christ?
Cat got ur tongue? Lol
i am numero uno
Hark the Satan ists got bored....hail Pleiadian overlord
The ten
1.Do not worship any other god than the one true God. (not a law)
2.Do not make idols or images in the form of God. (not a law)
3.Do not take the name of the Lord God in vain. (Violates law, Freedom of speech)
4. Keep the sabbath holy. (not a law)
5.Honor your father and mother. (not a law, good advice, unless your parents are sh!tty people)
6.Do not murder. (generally a law, unless the state or military does it)
7.Do not commit adultery. (Good advice, but not illegal, hell in divorce court)
8.Do not steal . (Law)
9.Do not bear false witness. (only illegal when under oath)
10.Do not covet. (That's the end of Capatalism)
Well if we give 6 and 9 half of a point, that's 20%.
."Do not covet. (That's the end of Capatalism)"
This should be a fictional movie made about what if Christians in America actually started lviing like Christ, what would Christmas look like? How many religious theme parks would be left? Would they still buy so much garbage for the holidays and would they stop whining about having to feed the poor on wellfare and foodstamps? Quick fun-fact, in 2012 the CBO said approxamately 6% of wellfare/foodstamp recipients were fraudulent which accounted for several million dollars. Or put another way, 94% of recipients really really need them to survive but because of the 6% (and the loving Christian attltude of God helps those who help themselves) you have millions of conservative Americans who would love to kill wellfare & foodstamps for those 94%.
Americultians spend trillions creatin' regulations and then the east gets a little rain and the Big O goes nutzo and sayz, "Come on in cwooks. We cuttin' the red tape!!"
Oh, I think the trillions went mire for the wars and less for the regulations...
You'd be happy taking medications that were not made to regulated standards?
You'd be happy drinking water not cleaned to the regulated standards?
You'd be happy being treated by doctors not qualified to the regulated standard?
You'd be happy eating food not prepared to the regulated standards?
You'd be happy buying investments on trust?
etc.
The little tombstone with the 10 sayings of One True is something I'll never see since wild horses couldn't drag me to Oklahoma. It's only interesting as a test of our protections under the Constitution of the United States. If our liberties are protected from the religious right in a place like Oklahoma they might well be safe everywhere in the US.
A monument to Satan as the inspiration for the beginning of Law would be more interesting than a monument to helpful suggestions no one pays any mind to.
Right?? You talkin' about martial law??
tool
@Tom, Tom, the Other One : wild horses couldn't drag me to Oklahoma.
And yet you can spend hours commenting on a blog that will never impact you.
That doesn't make sense, L4H. Can you read Tom's mind? Or are you saying there in never any influence on anyone by what is written here?
I think God was pretty serious about those Ten Commandments, they were carved in stone.
Because your God didn't know how to use Gmail of Facebook...
Those were not as popular in the bc's.
Your God knows how to create the universe, but not how to send email?
They were not as popular back then for sure, but for a God who you claim can do anything I'm sure having an inbox pop up in our vision giving us some information about whop he is, what he wants for us to do and that He is a he along with his 10 commandments wouldn't be out of his reach, would it? Google glass is going to put God to shame apparently...
A more honest version of what Robert wrote:
I think the alleged but not proven God was allegedly pretty serious about those Ten Commandments, they allegedly were carved in stone.
There is doc.umentary evidence.
"There is documentary evidence." No there isn't.
Then produce it, with proof of its validity. I think I hear the crickets warming up . . .
There is a doc umentary, but do you really believe everything you see on History channel Robert? If so then please explain which group of ancient aliens your Christ belonged to...
So serious that he didn't punish Moses for breaking them in a tantrum.
So was the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Does that make it true?
I think God was pretty serious...
---
But, apparently not serious enough to see to it that stones were carved in all areas of earth that his human creations inhabited. If he'd have done that, all would have the divine message, all treated equally.
Robert, as others have pointed out, stone is a pathetically poor material choice for a "god" to work with,, so that is yet more evidence that your "god" is entirely man-made fiction. And funny that the tablets can't be examined, and that the "commandments" are inconsistent across the many Christian sects and versions.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Personally, I wouldn't care, but a statue of Satan is a bit over the top. I agree that statues and memorials should reflect our culture.
There is more than one culture in this country.
Goths are prophets.
I don't know any Goths personally.
I see no reason why they couldn't be if anyone else could.
Not just anyone. They are a movement.
No one said that there was going to be a statue of Satan. Try reading the article again.
Ah but Satan is just so cute...that red-horny little guy...ever so evasive and cunning but always a product of crazy minds. 🙂
The depiction of one of his demons in the "Exorcist" had it/him grossly endowed.
You're a white man, aren't you?
Rosemary, I had his baby, so I know from which I speak; HE was a little rough though.
Maybe we should have a statue of Jamie Dimon pooping on a pile of US currency...
Another major problem with this call is dis-ingenuity. The 10 Commandments monument on Oklahoma State Capitol's grounds represents Christianity of Oklahoma's people collectively, is based on a genuine Christian belief, and not because someone else is not. On the contrary, the call for erecting a monument to Satan is a counteraction, and not because someone else is Satanist or simply not Christian, hence dis-ingenuity.
Previous Related Post:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/09/satanists-we-want-a-monument-in-oklahoma/comment-page-4/#comment-2804686
Those are not THE ten commandments either. Those are the commandments from Exodus 20.
Wont happen. The request was turned down...yesterday.
Halleluiah to the Lamb of God.
Have you had Rogan Josh with lamb? Delicious!
False, no ruling yet.
Bummer!
How very nice that you think the Constitution should only be violated for the group you like, Vic.
Mob rule?
You have no idea how much I believe in and advocate equality and justice. And as far as I am concerned, it is never "mob rule" for me; I am not an anarchist by any means.
If you are an advocate if the Constitution, Vic, surely you can see where it was violated in this instance.
In fairness and equality, the monument you DISAGREE with must be allowed as well as the one you AGREE with.
Rejecting the request just means the issue moves to the next step – a court case where it is quite likely that it will be decided the const!tution is not being followed. Rather than giving an inch in OK, the delusional believers risk losing it all, everywhere.
The problem is ignorance.
Christians' ignorance.
Do you really not understand that by your argument the different parts of this country would have different laws based on their local religions?
Does someone really have to tell you why that would be a problem?
Do you really not know that 76%+ of Americans are Christians?!
Vic,
We don't live in a democracy, we live in a consti.tutional democracy that protects the minorities from the tyranny of the majority. It was created that way intentionally with a purpose, a key purpose was to limit the power of the religious majority.
Yes.
You know that mormans, baptists, and Catholics interpret god differently, Right?
And there are jewish and muslim communities that also form majorities in small areas, Right?
Hey bostontola.
Brady did it again, divine intervention/miracle, if anyone deserves a monument in New England land it is HE!
Charm,
Crazy game. Brady was key in the 2nd half, but Gostkowski had the amazing plays. We'll need more than 1 miracle without Gronk or the defense. There's still hope.
In the United States, the nationwide majority, any statewide majority, and even most countywide majorities, are all mainline Christians.
Vic
Majority/minority...moot....does not have bearing in the case of beliefs.
It is people like you who kept whites/black segregated...white majority found out that the black minority have the SAME rights...and NOT separate but equal either...that too does not work.
bostontola
Without the Gronk it will be tough but they have a little time on their side, keep the faith.
Vic the US is not as bad but ?
Atheists face death in 13 countries, global discrimination: study
By Robert Evans
GENEVA Mon Dec 9, 2013 7:16pm EST
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210
Vic, how has that worked for you so far for abortion? Prayer in schools? ID in schools?
Too bad for you and your fellow christian cult members that that pesky Supreme Court, loaded with believers but not a single atheist, keep on getting in the way of your oppression of a minority and your dreams of a theocratic USA.
Good grief. A lot of putting words in my mouth.
I believe and advocate Equal Rights as well as Sanctity Of Life. I am a firm believer that every lived/living soul is from the Breath Of God, and accordingly:
[
Preamble
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
]
Mainline Xtian, Vic? What does that mean? So for Lutherans, I guess mainline means ELCA, right? Therefore, if you're Lutheran, if you're mainline, you should be for gay marriage.
Vic
What does the soul look like – no magic stuff ok ?
Because i do know what the sole looks like .
We believe that the spirit & soul are metaphysical while the body, which we all know, is physical.
Vic
The preamble was written by a believer...an opinion....it does not lend any credibility to the belief.
Really?!
FYI Vic
The people who wrote that "all men are created equal .... " were mostly slave owners.
Please look up where black men had 3/5 the voting rights as white land owners. It would do you some good to learn some truth about our history.
Vic, that fraction of the population that are members of your set of cults is down significantly from 30 years ago, which is great news. As society and science and medicine progress, there is less and less that is unknown, for your crazy Christian fairy tales to hide behind.
You do realize that the Mormons in Utah were breaking all sorts of laws including child abuse until the federalies caught up with them? There are probably always going to be some hard core religious sects that are dominated by an insane cult leader (the whackos in Waco, keeping up with the Jones. cult, Harold Camping, crazy is as crazy does).
Wackos in Waco?? Killin' 76 people to straighten em out isn't funny, no matter that someone has to play the straight man. Smith must have had pull, being a Mason and all.
I take no pleasure in this nor anything similar but David Koresh and the Davidians in Waco, TX were uttermost!
vic
uttermost what?
The branch davidians forced the government to act....the govt agreed the handling was bad, but it was David Koreshes fault...his and his alone. You cannot break several federal and local laws and expect it to be OK.
Uttermost extreme.
Yeah, then Attorney General Janet Reno had a tough call to make, I watched it all live back then, horrifying!
Vic
Our cult is better than their religious cult because we stopped doing that sh!t years ago. We are just so fvcking superior now, we don't even have slaves anymore, classy.
Edited:
dis-genuineness is a more proper term than dis-ingenuity?.
Edited:
dis-genuineness is a more proper term than dis-ingenuity.
"the call for ere cting a monument to Satan is a counteraction," Right, you stick your finger in someones eye, expect a finger in your own shortly...
You missed the point!
From my root post:
"The 10 Commandments monument on Oklahoma State Capitol's grounds represents Christianity of Oklahoma's people collectively, is based on a genuine Christian belief, and not because someone else is not."
Your root post didn't take into account the blatent violation of the Constitution.
So there are no Satanists in OK? If they say it's okay for one group then it must be okay for the other group, otherwise you are creating two sets of laws, the one for Christians and then the one for everyone else, one restroom for whites only, and one for everyone else, because you know, collectively they decided that most people in that city are white, so it won't effect anyone of consequence, right Vic?
Are you are aware that it is a State issue and not a Federal one? So, the Oklahoma State's Constitution is at play here.
Vic, are you aware that the state is in a country? Do you have even half a functioning friggin brain?
Vic, the US Consti.tution trumps state Consti.tutions. Surely you know this??
I take it you are being facetious!
Vic, Do you think states should their own definition of freedom of speech or equal protection?
... should have their own ...
Federal and State are two distinct levels of government, and they can borrow from each other, BUT they DO NOT cross each other.
As far as FREEDOM and INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, that level is NATIONWIDE, hence Federal.
So why do you think states can pick and choose when it comes to freedom of religion? Isn't that also an individual right?
INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM & RIGHTS ARE THE SAME NATIONWIDE.
Just a quick example about the previous point we were talking about:
Most States' Constitutions embrace God.
Doesn't it infringe on my individual right to freedom of religion to have the text of a religion I do not believe in installed in front of a public building which I may have no choice in attending? Would you be supportive of Hindu or Shinto texts outside the court?
That brings us back to my previous post, which I included a hyperlink to in my root post, that is the issue of heritage and relevance combined.
Note that the reason a group from New York state, hence interstate affair, maybe to bring the case into a Federal Jurisdiction. I am not a legal expert but I don't know if that would fly.
That brings us back to my previous post, which I included a hyperlink to in my root post, that is the issue of heritage and relevance combined.
Note that the reason a group from New York state, hence interstate affair, may be to bring the case into a Federal Jurisdiction. I am not a legal expert but I don't think that would fly.
Vic keep doing the twist – it really does show your bright side.
About that energy and mass crossin' the road....................
Natural uranium decay creates energy that helps heat the core of our planet lol??
Kills and evolves marine life, also. You like eatin' radioactive fish?? Science is full of bullheaded bulls in china shops.
Yeah lol?? i caught some BIG suckers ( from the Mississippi) but ...
Enjoy the one thing on the menu, asian carp. BTW those commie capitalists have included another treat for ya, cold resistant co*ckroaches.
Really no hell required lol?? !
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — In their zeal to tout their faith in the public square, conservatives in Oklahoma may have unwittingly opened the door to a wide range of religious groups, including Satanists who are seeking to put their own statue next to a Ten Commandments monument outside the Statehouse.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/satanists-oklahoma-statehouse/3908849/?news
Have you read the constitution? What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander – either all religions should be represented or none.
Since when is Christian belief genuine? If I want Bordeaux wine, it has to come from the Bordeaux region of France. But if I'm not careful with a flavor of Christianity, I might accidentally pick the sect that worships Santa Muerte and wind up being sacrificed at some point.
@Vic,
"The 10 Commandments monument ...is based on a genuine Christian belief, and not because someone else is not. On the contrary, the call for erecting a monument to Satan is a counteraction, and not because someone else is Satanist or simply not Christian, hence dis-ingenuity."
I disagree. This monument, as the article stated, I think, is an exact replica of the one on some Texas Court grounds and therefore is a statement against the removal of such monuments, i.e. not initiated by honest Christian motive, but disingenuous itself.
Not exactly!
The purpose of the 10 Commandments monument is genuine, the legal justification for it uses the example of Texas, according to the previous edition of the article.
It's blatantly UnConsti.turional.
How you feel about politicians circu.mventing the 2nd Amendment to take away your guns? Bet you'd have plenty to say if THAT were tried, Vic.
@Vic,
And with that logic how do you claim that the Satanists aren't genuine and that the Consti.tuion is legal the justification.
(p.s. Did they change the article? I don't see the reference to Texas anymore.)
@Vic,
And with that logic how do you claim that the Satanists aren't genuine and that the Consti.tuion is the legal justification.
(p.s. Did they change the article? I don't see the reference to Texas anymore.)
Sorry for the repeti.tive redundancy
Yeah, the previous edition of the article mentioned a Texas example for a legal justification, and we are dealing with state constitutions here. The 10 Commandments monument is on State grounds and not Federal.
I know this is all so difficult for all of us!
So can we all hold hands, knowing that this is just one more step on the teleological pathway of consciousness? Thank you and goodnight
I've been seeing a lot of out-of-towners trying to impose their beliefs on communities in which they have no presence. If the Satanic Temple had a strong local following, there may be an argument for such idiocy. Otherwise, perhaps the state should decide based on the specific needs/wants of their local community.
State lines have no meaning to da big guys in washington.
Statesman disappeared after their obsolescence became clear. They were replaced with mobster mommies.
The local chapter of the ACLU in OK has filed a lawsuit over this started back in 2009.
Last,
The Consti.tution covers the entire US, not just some of it.
Perhaps a local minority needs the assistance and anonymity of an outside group to withstand the tyranny of the majority.
A statue of a nun with her frock up and no knickers getting caned on the tush would be awesome.
Is that you, C. S. Lewis, posting from hell?