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 A Ten Commandments monument erected outside the Oklahoma state Capitol.
December 9th, 2013
01:46 PM ET
Satanists want statue next to 10 CommandmentsBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Lots of lawmakers have been accused of devilish behavior, but Oklahoma's state capitol may become the first to actually have a monument to Satan. If a New York-based group called the Temple of Satan gets its way, a statue of the Evil One would sit next to the recently erected 10 Commandments monument on state capitol grounds. "They said they wanted to be open to different monuments," said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Temple of Satan, "and this seems like a perfect place to put that to the test." Greaves and some legal experts say the Constitution is clear: the government can't endorse one particular religion. So, if a state capitol has a monument to one faith, it must allow monuments to others as well. The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, said Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves. Last year, the Temple organized a gay and lesbian kiss-in at the gravesite of the mother of anti-gay preacher and activist the Rev. Fred Phelps. It also held a rally at Florida's state capitol in support of a law that allows "inspirational messages" at public school assemblies. "It allows us to spread the message of Satanism," which centers around respect for diversity and religious minorities, said Greaves. Oklahoma legislators voted to erect the Ten Commandments monument in 2009, using private funds donated by Rep. Mike Rietz, a surgeon and Southern Baptist deacon. Rietz declined to comment on the Satanists' proposal on Monday, citing an separate and ongoing dispute with the American Civil Liberties Union over the Ten Commandments monument. Oklahoma state Rep. Bob Cleveland told CNN that he's not in favor of the Satanist's proposed statue. "I believe that only monuments that reflect Oklahoma values should be allowed on capitol the capitol grounds," Cleveland said in an e-mail on Monday. But if Christians and Jews can have their monument to the 10 Commandments, then Satanists must be allowed to erect their own statue, said Brady Henderson, legal director of the American Civil Liberty Union's Oklahoma chapter. "We feel like the Satanic Temple has a very strong argument to say that, if the state allows one religious monument, you have to allow others," Henderson said. Oklahoma's statehouse grounds already has monuments honoring its heritage and Native American history, said Trait Thompson, chair of the Capitol Preservation Commission. "Individuals and groups are free to apply to place a monument or statue or artwork," Thompson said. The commission then determines whether the proposal abides by its standards and votes on whether to approve it. Greaves said he's received the required forms from Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Commission and is working on a design that will meet its standards. "We want something big and bold that will be able to stand up to the weather or whatever other kinds of assaults," that may target the monument, he said. "My favorite idea right now is an object of play for children. We want kids to see that Satanism is where the fun is." The Temple of Satan created a Indiegogo fundraising page on Monday, but have thus far only publicly raised $150 towards its goal of $20,000. Not all Satanist groups see the fun in political provocations. Magus Peter Gilmore, head of the Church of Satan, which was founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, said he believes in strict separation of church and state. "Rather than placing multiple 'advertisements' for various religions, we think it best for the (10 Commandments) monument to be removed to private property and that there be no objects supporting religion of any sort placed on the statehouse grounds," Gilmore said. Earlier this year, Gilmore's Church of Satan squared off against a British group of Satanists over abortion rights, after activists shouted "Hail Satan" to drown out anti-abortion activists at the Texas state capitol. soundoff (3,610 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Why wouldn't we want good people to have a statue instead of evil people?
Why doesn't everyone agree that good is better than evil?
Why should my rights as a satanist be quashed? I'm not any more evil than Christians.
Why wouldn't you do what the Nazis did if given the opportunity to do so?
Why would I?
Where do morals come from?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANSPIz4TMhw
http://www.wimp.com/trustmorality/
If morality is soul and/or God derived then inhaling a chemical should have nothing to do with any moral outcomes, correct?
Not a single Christian willing to attempt to answer that question I see...
Okay. What dies this have to do with the topic of OK violating the Constitution
I say it is immoral to do that.
Immoral to do what?
Why would someone name their child Living Waters?
Why would someone name their child Jesus or Messiah?
morals come from empathy, gopher
morals come from a rational view of our actions on other people
Please explain why morals are important. I am a nihilist and I disagree.
I know that Satan is real. I had a friend who can tell about all the Satanism. It is real. Satan offers only Money, not a true happiness of life. But some people who love money are in. Finally, you will have to sacrifice all of you souls to the Devil. But commonly now they are trying to show you that their religion is great and simple. I must say it is not true. Jesus is more powerful, and savior who can gives you hope for eternity.
So? What does that have to do with OK violating the US Constitution?
What's been violated?
Do you know anything about the Constitution?
My rights as a U.S citizen have been violated along with everyone else as "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" is in our constltution. Oh wait, I guess you would also have to know how to read and understand the words that were put into the consltution more than 200 years ago to feel as if your rights were violated.
I don't see where a religion has been established. And if you want to argue church and state, that was established so that the government couldn't mess with religion.
Well regardless of how the simpleton Topher defines the establishment clause it is good to know that the law see's it as a protection of public governance from religion, not the protection of religion from governance. He can have his own opinion but little good that will do him as he has to stand next to the Satanists monument to get a glimpse of the ten commandments...
If they allow the other monument, there won't be any preference.
Simple.
Easy.
And religion shouldn't mess with the government, either.
You know Satan exists like you know you're "cool". It's that feeling you get inside when you stand in front of the mirror repeating over and over "I'm cool, i'm cool, I know i'm cool, i'm so awesome, hopefully Mary will notice me, i'm so cool, so cool, so cool..."
Why do Satanists want a statue next to the 10 commandments?
Mary the troll has FAILED again.
Because the Constitution says they can.
Why do Satantists want to get rid of the 10 commandments while putting in their own statue?
Why do they want the best of both worlds?
Why do Christians want a statue of the 10 commandments? Not only do they not follow them all, most barely know them all...
Why doesn't anyone ever answer my questions?
Fools NO ONE.
OOOOOPS!
Why are you acting retarded?
Why is it okay for atheists to say what's evil, quoting things from the Bible, but it's not okay for me to say that Satanists are evil?
Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over, “Mary”?
It's because "Mary" is a troll who uses a long list of aliases.
Mary,
Sorry you missed the question. Here it is:
Do you believe and support EVERY word of the Bible
Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over, Mary?
I don't even see how Mary could say Satanists are evil by her own standards since she hasn't shown that she understands who she's yakking about.
Why don't you answer questions,, Mary?
Mary,
Do you believe and support EVERY word of the Bible?
do u believe in the stooges or bart?
who was jesus? y do u believe that?
do u like the garbage dm self-publishes and no one reads and scholars laugh at and dismiss?
y run?
christ is god
wouldn't u agree the new testament proclaims that perfectly clearly?
christ is god
wouldn't u agree the new testament proclaims that perfectly clearly?
don't no? or scared?
I AM GOOD
It does proclaim it clearly. But it also screams "add-on screenplay".
Why do you think that you're good?
just visit this website: you will know how the Bible is very true. >> http://www.amazingfacts.org/
christ is god
wouldn't u agree the new testament proclaims that perfectly clearly?
don't no? or scared?
I AM GOOD
I am a shining light of truth in a sea of deceit
satan can't understand what's being said when praying in tongues
satan, athie's god, shines like a light and trembles.
satan can't listen in and understand what's being said when praying in tongues
Bart Erhman had a one-liner in one of his talks that addressed the source for the "tongue" people. Quite funny.
have u heard angels dis xtian?
at least bart realizes christ lived, unlike the birdbrain dm murdock. she don't no what day it is
they say satan can't listen in and understand what's being said when praying in tongues
Why does religion get supported by atheists when the religion at issue is Satanism?
You need to distinguish support for a religion, and support for their right to exist. I support the right of Christianity to exist. I think satanism is as loco as Christianity.
Mary,
Why are you so AFRAID to answer questions?
Why do you ask?
Answer the questions, troll.
Douglas
Answer the questions, troll.
lol
I like to think there are many possibilities for things, but I'm afraid Observer that the only logical answer is that Mary is STUMPED.
Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over, "Mary"?
ME II
You also never showed me anything that Jesus said which was not truth. I would then conclude it is not unreasonable to believe He holds the truth in other things we cannot understand
stretch when you're talking about someone whose word we didn't get first hand...
By the Words all known history was forever changed including the dominate Christian World View of today. Evidence and reality is what you see in front of your face not what some atheist sound bite attempts to claim
fred
"Evidence and reality is what you see in front of your face"
Well done. The other day you said the OPPOSITE. Ooops.
No, I said we would agree generally as to the observed physical properties however, where I see the full reality that includes that which is of God you only see the physical events
fred,
Once again you show your lack of use of dictionaries.
Observer
Reality is what is regardless of your opinion. Now, there is the known physical properties of this existence and the unknown physical properties. To claim you do not know or cannot understand the unknown that exists is simple nonsense. Somehow in your logic you think that pretending you do not have a belief concerning that which exists outside the known is better than the explanation of the unknown given the single most influential person in the history of mankind.
That's right you think you are better than Jesus. Sorry, no one ever heard of you and that even when we do you use a fake name. Now that's reality
Is Jesus 1 with the Father and the is the Old testament His? If so, there is lots not true there.
Christians want Jesus to be God but then they also want to divorce him from the Hebrew scriptures because it contains some pretty vile shlt. They do it when they claim the Mosaic law was fullfilled by Christ without even stopping to think that if it was Jesus who wrote the law and then came to fulfill it then it's the same being, no different then the one that demanded the Samaritan babies and pregnant women torn open for disobeying him.
Just as the Flood and tower of babble were major events that required a drastic intervention by God due to direction of man so it was with Jesus. The Jews had added so much to the Law it was more of a reflection of man than God that Jesus had to set things straight. Civilization reached a point where time was ripe for the Good News and the inclusion of those not born of the seed of Abraham to be given the truth to carry forward. The Hebrew or Chosen Ones were tasked with bringing the Law and revelation of God forward through the generations and now all believers filled with the Holy Spirit would carry message of salvation.
If the God of the bible is perfect and divine then he should never have to change. Instead he exhibits human emotions of doubt and regret and revenge. "6 So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart. 7 And the Lord said, “I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing—all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them.” Genesis 6:5-6
If this God was so powerful why would he not just eliminate the evil doers? Instead he wipes out nearly all life on the planet. Maybe God is really a woman and that was just her time of the month...
Mandeville "Fable of the Bees"
please, read this article.. here is the link>> http://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible-questions/why/genesis-6/
Simple
That is exactly what God did with the flood. God blotted out every evil that was not on the ark.
So how did evil survive the flood? It seems like God either missed, did a lot of killing but didn't fix anything, or maybe had nothing to do with any ancient flood.
Czar Chasm
Just as in the Garden of Eden there was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Noah and his children had the knowledge of Good and Evil even though Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord. That evil was evident shortly after they landed and Noah became drunk. Those same choices are always before man who makes his or her own decision on following God going the way Jesus made clear to us or going after their own way.
The flood was necessary for several reasons one was the increasing wickedness of those surrounding the Chosen Ones. They would not have had a chance to bring about the Good News if God did no blot out all the wicked ones. It is a recurrent story in the Bible where God brings through a remnant that believe in order to bring about His will. That will is all come to the glory of God.
While you have time, fred, better grab some more straw for Solomon's stables. They might just come out with another number for that one yet...
Good News Doris you have the opportunity to see God. Don't pass it up as the offer only goes so far.
Why wouldn't I regard Satanists as evil when Satan himself is the personification of evil? Duh.
did you misunderstand the article, Mary?
Satan is the personification of evil according to his self-described enemies. Tell me, should we judge you according to what your enemies say about you?
If Satan were real then there would be some objective universal evil. So far there is no evidence of anything like that and time after time evil has proved itself to be subjective, usually with the victim aka subject of said evil proclaiming how evil whatever they had decided was not good for them. If you believe evil is objective please cite any example.
Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over, “Mary”?
If people believe in good, then why do they want something that is a blatant representation of evil?
Mary,
Why are you HIDING from answering questions? Why so AFRAID?
Mary? Why have you consistently misrepresented the subject of the article?
Satan is not a true god, we must remove these activities. The only true God who is in heaven, is ancient Americans' God. Satanisms are shameless. God's enemy? how could we allow the statue to place beside God's the ten commandments.
"ancient Americans' God" – how old would these Americans be? A couple hundred years? That's not ancient?
Maybe its because there is no objective good and evil, there is only subjective good and evil. In this case, the proponents of the Satanist statue are not presenting it as a representation of evil, they are presenting it as a "literary construct," much like your God.
Mary,
Our country is governed by laws. Follow them and all is fine, don't and you risk incarceration.
Which laws have precedence for you, Government law or your religious laws?
Our country is discovered by the people who were religious persons, not satanists. That's why we had been saying this "In God We Trust." You might need to Read the history of America.
You might want to look up the US Constitution. You guys don't get special preference. Sorry.
You also might look up the meaning if E Pluribus Unum, and when the loons replaced the original intent of the FF with their own flavor if the month.
Mary
That's "evil" according to some people's definition, just like God is only "good" according to other people's definition.
All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Not for anything you said or did but you are sinners from birth so you should just be ashamed of yourselves, if you aren't then how will we ever get control over you so we Christians can feel safe in our faith? Just because our group gets special privileges to put up a monument to our God shouldn't mean everyone gets to do it, if they did then our religion doesn't feel as special, it should only be us, the established religion that gets to put their monument on public buildings and land!
amen!
do u speak in human or angelic tongues?
Sarcasm. Love it.
Wow – lol and the sarcasm even wound up engorging oo oo. I guess it got all tingly too.
Why are you saying that Hitler was evil if you think that I'm not one to say that Satanists are evil?
What has the Satanist group done that is evil?
You don't actually believe Mary knows any Satanists do you? She is making an assumption, and you know what that measn, she's making an ass out of umption...
I know that Satan is real. I had a friend who can tell about all the Satanism. It is real. Satan offers only Money, not a true happiness of life. But some people who love money are in. Finally, you will have to sacrifice all of you souls to the Devil. But commonly now they are trying to show you that their religion is great and simple. I must say it is not true. Jesus is more powerful, and savior who can gives you hope for eternity.
Doc.umentary proof that Hitler led the systematic murder of targeted peoples. What have satanists done?
Why are you defending people who sacrifice babies?
I answered your question, you didn't answer mine, why?
Who is sacrificing babies?
lol... they haven't done that in years, well months anyway. /sarcasm
Mary,
The Bible says that when God got done with his killing spree, he had KILLED EVERY pregnant woman, child, baby and fetus on the face of the earth.
What was your point, if any?
Of course there is that awful Santa Muerte Christian sect that still sacrifices people. Just awful.
Doris
If there's a sect sacrificing people, then they aren't Christian.
There are a disturbing number of fundamentalist Christians that let their innocent children die by denying them medical attention, is that what you are referring to Mary?
More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month...
70% are religious... maybe you religious need to get your own house in order before you come knocking on mine...
ME II
If they teach their children to hate God there is a good chance their children will be hateful also. Thus they sacrifice their own children to Satan.
fred
"If they teach their children to hate God there is a good chance their children will be hateful also. Thus they sacrifice their own children to Satan."
The only people who can HATE God are believers. Lecture your fellow Christians. You are looking foolish if you think ANY atheist hates God. Ooops.
Oh Topher, that's what one Christian says about another Christian on many subjects. Granted this is a weird one, but their roots are deep in Christianity.
Depends on whether the subject being disagreed about is essential or not. For instance, I disagree with Presbyterians on whether to baptize babies. Our differences are not an essential, so we are still brothers in Christ. But if the thing is essential, like JW says Jesus was an angel, not God — this is a belief that puts them strictly outside of Biblical orthodoxy and thus we are not brothers. Jesus Himself gets to decide who are in or out of the faith. And when He says certain actions puts your outside of the faith — that you really aren't one of His followers — I think He has that authority. So if you are outside of that, you aren't a Christian ... even if you call yourself one.
fred,
Many Muslims think Christians sacrifice their children by not teaching them Islam.
bostontola
On this note Christians and Muslims agree that Satan worship is wrong. I would think even atheists and agnostic find Satan worship wrong. Now, if the assumption is they are just a bunch of nice people doing good things who reject God then they would fall into the same subset as these Satanists.
Just so you don't feel foolish any longer fred you may want to look up Satanism as most Satanists do not believe in an actual being called Satan, as the article points out they view him as they do God, a litterary construct. It would be like the fan club for Voldemort versus Harry Potter, do you really think fans of Voldemort are rubbing their hands together planning the next death eater attack? If you do then you are farther gone into lunacy then I had thought.
Satanism has the same right to exist as any of the Christian sects, or Judaism, Hinduism, etc.
If a Government facility allows one group to pay for and install a religious monument, how can it exclude another and abide by "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
What if it were a religion that promoted genocide and one-party rule?
Are satanists doing that?
Why can't I ask a hypothetical question?
Anyone can promote 1 party rule.
Promoting genocide is not committing genocide, not being a lawyer I cant say if promoting it is illegal. If they don't break laws, they can have their religion as far as I'm concerned. If they break laws, they can't.
Mary
The God of the Bible promoted genocide and Jesus will apparently return to establish a complete dictatorship over the entire world, right?
I like the Elf Rules better
1. Treat every day like Christmas
2. Theres room for everyone on the nice list.
3. The best way to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud for all to hear.
🙂
Awesome, I don't have to work on Christmas!
Why aren't the same arguments used against God's existence also used against Satan's?
Why the double standard?
"They believe Satan is a 'literary construct,' the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves." – the article
ME II. At least someone here is trying to stay on topic.
Why do they want a monument for a being that they believe does not exist?
Maybe for the same reason there are Mickey Mouse statues at Disney Land... We know Mickey doesn't exist but he represents childhood fantasy and thus can be used as a figurehead for imagination.
Would you be supportive of a Hindu display?
Why can't Jews and Christians use the same reason?
@Mary,
That is a theological question.
Are you saying that they don't have the right to express their religion in the manner they choose?
Why would I support a Hindu display when I am not Hindu, nor am I in India?
@Mary
"Why would I support a Hindu display when I am not Hindu, nor am I in India?"
...because supporting other people's rights also supports your own. It's not a difficult concept.
Why would I support the rights of others when they aren't supporting mine?
There are statues to Peter Pan and Rocky Balboa, so why not Satan?
@Mary,
"Why would I support the rights of others when they aren't supporting mine?"
1) Because it's the law.
2) Because you agree with the right and that everyone should have equal rights.
Also, how are they not supporting your rights?
"Why would I support a Hindu display when I am not Hindu, nor am I in India?"
I'm ready to call poe on this one.
@doobzz,
Maybe you're right
not necessary. Just like the theistic use of the terms "truth" and "free will". All necessary for those religions that utilize them. Not necessary if you don't subscribe.