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Satanists want statue next to 10 Commandments
A Ten Commandments monument erected outside the Oklahoma state Capitol.
December 9th, 2013
01:46 PM ET

Satanists want statue next to 10 Commandments

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
[twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN']

(CNN) - Lots of lawmakers have been accused of devilish behavior, but Oklahoma's state capitol may become the first to actually have a monument to Satan.

If a New York-based group called the Temple of Satan gets its way, a statue of the Evil One would sit next to the recently erected 10 Commandments monument on state capitol grounds.

"They said they wanted to be open to different monuments," said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Temple of Satan, "and this seems like a perfect place to put that to the test."

Greaves and some legal experts say the Constitution is clear: the government can't endorse one particular religion. So, if a state capitol has a monument to one faith, it must allow monuments to others as well.

The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, said Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves.

Last year, the Temple organized a gay and lesbian kiss-in at the gravesite of the mother of anti-gay preacher and activist the Rev. Fred Phelps. It also held a rally at Florida's state capitol in support of a law that allows "inspirational messages" at public school assemblies.

"It allows us to spread the message of Satanism," which centers around respect for diversity and religious minorities, said Greaves.

Oklahoma legislators voted to erect the Ten Commandments monument in 2009, using private funds donated by Rep. Mike Rietz, a surgeon and Southern Baptist deacon.

Rietz declined to comment on the Satanists' proposal on Monday, citing an separate and ongoing dispute with the American Civil Liberties Union over the Ten Commandments monument.

Oklahoma state Rep. Bob Cleveland told CNN that he's not in favor of the Satanist's proposed statue.

"I believe that only monuments that reflect Oklahoma values should be allowed on capitol the capitol grounds," Cleveland said in an e-mail on Monday.

But if Christians and Jews can have their monument to the 10 Commandments, then Satanists must be allowed to erect their own statue, said Brady Henderson, legal director of the American Civil Liberty Union's Oklahoma chapter.

"We feel like the Satanic Temple has a very strong argument to say that, if the state allows one religious monument, you have to allow others," Henderson said.

Oklahoma's statehouse grounds already has monuments honoring its heritage and Native American history, said Trait Thompson, chair of the Capitol Preservation Commission.

"Individuals and groups are free to apply to place a monument or statue or artwork," Thompson said.

The commission then determines whether the proposal abides by its standards and votes on whether to approve it.

Greaves said he's received the required forms from Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Commission and is working on a design that will meet its standards.

"We want something big and bold that will be able to stand up to the weather or whatever other kinds of assaults," that may target the monument, he said.

"My favorite idea right now is an object of play for children. We want kids to see that Satanism is where the fun is."

The Temple of Satan created a Indiegogo fundraising page on Monday, but have thus far only publicly raised $150 towards its goal of $20,000.

Not all Satanist groups see the fun in political provocations.

Magus Peter Gilmore, head of the Church of Satan, which was founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, said he believes in strict separation of church and state.

"Rather than placing multiple 'advertisements' for various religions, we think it best for the (10 Commandments) monument to be removed to private property and that there be no objects supporting religion of any sort placed on the statehouse grounds," Gilmore said.

Earlier this year, Gilmore's Church of Satan squared off against a British group of Satanists over abortion rights, after activists shouted "Hail Satan" to drown out anti-abortion activists at the Texas state capitol.

READ MORE: Satanists square off on abortion (Yes, really)

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Belief • Church and state • Culture wars • Devil • Satanism

soundoff (3,610 Responses)
  1. Observer

    Ten Commandments:
    1: Have no other gods – NOT A LAW
    2: Make no graven image – NOT A LAW
    3: Don’t take the name in vain – NOT A LAW
    4: Honor the Sabbath – NOT A LAW
    5: Honor thy father and mother – NOT A LAW
    6: Thou shalt not kill – NOT UNIQUE TO CHRISTIANITY (long pre-dated it)
    7: Thou shalt not commit adultery – huge number of Christians commit adultery by LEGALLY remarrying
    8: Thou shalt not steal – NOT UNIQUE TO CHRISTIANITY
    9: Thou shalt not bear false witness – NOT UNIQUE TO CHRISTIANITY
    10: Thou shalt not covet – NOT A LAW

    December 11, 2013 at 12:17 am |
    • Um

      State capitol grounds – Not a law

      December 11, 2013 at 12:36 am |
      • Um

        The Constatution – Not a law.

        December 11, 2013 at 12:37 am |
        • Um

          The politically correct statue of a bird – Not a law.

          December 11, 2013 at 12:39 am |
        • Observer

          Um

          "The Constatution – Not a law."

          Funniest, most ridiculous comment on this blog.

          December 11, 2013 at 12:39 am |
        • Um

          Almost as funny as your "not unique to Christianity" comment. Who said it was???

          December 11, 2013 at 12:44 am |
        • Observer

          Um,

          There's nothing unique about it. So no big deal to try to credit Christians for it.

          Read about the Consti-tution yet and how it relates to laws?

          December 11, 2013 at 12:52 am |
        • Um

          Who said it was???(do you understand sarcasm?..........or making silly quotes to match your silly quotes?)

          December 11, 2013 at 12:59 am |
  2. Observer

    The Ten Commandments have VERY LITTLE to do with our laws, so why should they be displayed?

    December 11, 2013 at 12:00 am |
    • Glenn

      The last 5 are pretty pertinent don't you agree?

      December 11, 2013 at 12:09 am |
      • Observer

        Glenn,

        Like "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's a$$"?

        December 11, 2013 at 12:11 am |
        • Glenn

          your right that is more moral less legal. but 6-9 still important

          December 11, 2013 at 12:14 am |
  3. lol??

    lol??
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    bostontola sayz
    "Satanism has the same right to exist ...................."
    Yup Satan has rights. He's righteous. Fine in Vegas. Not so much in Branson.

    However children, opposite day here at CNN Middleskool is over today at the final bell. Hope you learned the two step dialectic.

    December 11, 2013 at 12:00 am |
    • Trolls

      Suck.

      December 11, 2013 at 12:03 am |
  4. hearties

    I imagine that Moses had one big grin on his face when he picked up those tablets. Words from God, right there, in his hands. Then they had to ruin it...

    December 10, 2013 at 11:49 pm |
    • doobzz

      There is no evidence that Moses ever existed, that the Jews were ever in Egypt, or of the plagues of Egypt, no historical record at all.

      December 10, 2013 at 11:55 pm |
  5. It is a joke

    The Tenets of Atheism

    1. There is no God.

    2. I hate him!

    🙂
    Love,
    a fellow atheist
    (it is funny and true in some cases. admit it! hahaha)

    December 10, 2013 at 11:44 pm |
    • You are

      Misrepresenting atheists and for no other reason than to act as trollish as you can.

      Well done! 😀

      December 10, 2013 at 11:53 pm |
      • Have you

        Noticed that 99.999999% of atheists don't act hostile toward religion? Just a few do.

        December 10, 2013 at 11:58 pm |
        • Yes,

          But why are you addressing me instead if the person that asserted it?

          December 11, 2013 at 12:00 am |
  6. Glenn

    Atheist Manifesto

    There is no God and I hate him

    If there is no God why argue? Why waste your breath in the debate? Instead appreciate the good in religion and shun the malice, but know that hate and evil are not now nor have been exclusive to religion.

    December 10, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Why do you feel the need to lie about people who don't believe what you do, Glenn? Do you think lying shows how moral and good you are? Do you think that lies make you appear to be a moral person?

      December 10, 2013 at 10:58 pm |
      • Glenn

        What way my lie?

        December 10, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
        • tallulah13

          You made up things about people you don't know, Glenn. That's a lie.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:08 pm |
        • Glenn

          "You made up things about people you don't know, Glenn. That's a lie." You would simply not know either way. You are just going to have faith that I am telling you the truth or have faith that I am not. It doesn't really matter. getting back to my original point – I am going out on a limb and assume you don't have faith that God exists. If that is true do you argue about it one way or another or do you simply live and let live?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:12 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Am an atheist, Glenn. You lied about me. I know you are a liar. So I ask you, why do you think that lying makes you a moral person?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
        • Glenn

          Please indulge me... what exactly was the lie about you that I told?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
        • tallulah13

          I don't hate what I don't believe in, Glenn. That would be silly. Now stop lying about people.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
        • Glenn

          I see you don't hate God because God doesn't exist. Excellent now we are getting somewhere. So you don't have any resentment towards God. That is progress. So then you aren't the hating type of person who spews nasty comments about God or people who believe in God. Awesome. You are my kind of person. Good for you. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Have a wonderful evening

          December 10, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
        • Welcome

          Internet atheism.

          If you disagree with them, they call you a liar. They think their opinions are facts. The internet atheists are susceptible to delusions, just like all other human beings. They just arrogantly claim they have none. (Which is a HUGE warning sign)

          December 10, 2013 at 11:23 pm |
        • tallulah13

          I don't hate god, Glenn, but it doesn't stop me from being disgusted by those who lie in the name of god. I hope some day that you grow up and realize that lying is immoral.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:25 pm |
        • Glenn

          T – True Atheists don't need to worry about morality

          December 10, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Oh look. "Welcome" is another liar for Jesus. They should start a club.

          Do you think that the ten commandments don't apply to you, or do you just think your god is so stupid that he won't notice when you bear false witness? Either way, if your god is real, you'll be burning with the atheists.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
        • tallulah13

          You're right, Glenn. I don't worry about morality. My parents taught me that I am responsible for my own actions, therefore I'm not even tempted to lie or cheat or steal or hurt others. You should give personal responsibility a try, Glenn. It would make you a better person.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:29 pm |
        • Glenn

          t – you just proved welcome's point.... You don't agree with him and then you called him a liar. You have to work on your game.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
        • Welcome

          Do you just guess that anyone that opposes your nonsense is a Christian? What do you do when you are wrong about that guess? Just keep hating and acting immature?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          "T – True Atheists don't need to worry about morality"

          You are CLUELESSLY ignorant. Of course they are concerned. Wake up. Skip the LYING.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:30 pm |
        • BUSTED!

          Tally

          Most atheists have Christian parents. Do you?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:33 pm |
        • Glenn

          No Observer they don't need to worry about it. Morality like guilt is like a bag of bricks you carry about for no reason. All you have to do is drop it.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Like you, Glenn, "Welcome" made a broad statement about people he doesn't know. Most people call this lying.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:34 pm |
        • Glenn

          t – broad brush or not he made an observation and you fell right into it. Hook line and sinker

          December 10, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          Are you DELUSIONAL enough to claim that only believers have morals?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:37 pm |
        • Glenn

          No Observer I am correct in claiming only people of religion need worry about them.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:39 pm |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          Fortunately, practically no one follows the "morals" in the Bible. That's why we don't have slavery and discrimination against women and the handicapped.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:41 pm |
        • Rich

          Like most atheists, I didn't simply have awesome parents like tallulah13 to teach me to be such an awesome human being. What am I supposed to do? Just take her slap in my face? Or tell her there are other ways to personal responsibility. Also, I know Muslims, Hindus, Jews... even Christians who take personal responsibility. No lie. Does tallulah13 think she is better than them because of her awesome parents or something?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:41 pm |
        • tallulah13

          And again, Glenn is just making things up about people he doesn't know. Christian virtues on display.

          BUSTED: I was raised in a small, predominantly christian town, but my parents were not vocal about their beliefs. I thought I was a christian until I actually considered what and why I believed. I can no longer honestly even pretend to believe in a god. I was rather sad to lose that belief, but I was raised to tell the truth - even to myself.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:42 pm |
        • tallulah13

          I think Glenn's a troll. If not, he might as well be. Goodnight all. I have better things to do than argue with a liar on a blog.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:45 pm |
        • Welcome

          I'm not a Christian. Care to retract your statement and offer an apology?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:46 pm |
        • Glenn

          t – continued name calling and running away from an argument you have completely lost is not becoming of you. Admit you are wrong and move on. By they way have a good night

          December 10, 2013 at 11:47 pm |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          Do you believe and support EVERYTHING in the Bible (slavery, etc.) or do you just HYPOCRITICALLY pick and choose from it?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:54 pm |
        • Glenn

          O – take it easy man. Put down the straw man and stop beating your chest. I won't ask you if you believe in life from non life or existence from non existence. My point was simply if you don't believe in God then don't get sucked in to the argument one way or another. Furthermore as an atheist you don't have to go around bashing other people's religion. Enjoy the goodness and shun the evil. It is simple man. I do the same with atheists... Well most of the time. LOL sometimes I can't resist the stupid. Anyway in the words of Rodney King... "Can't we all just get along"

          December 10, 2013 at 11:59 pm |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          So you were AFRAID to answer the question.

          When you make statements as entirely without intelligence like "Atheists don't need to worry about morality", then they need to be challenged and exposed for their ignorance.

          December 11, 2013 at 12:08 am |
        • Glenn

          O.K. O I'll bite. Why would and atheist have to worry about morality at all.

          December 11, 2013 at 12:11 am |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          Apparently it's impossible for believers to comprehend that people can have "good morals" without threats (hell) or bribes (heaven).

          Why is the idea that morals could come from INTELLIGENCE so unacceptable to Christians? Does it all tie back to the Bible saying that those who are wise really aren't?

          December 11, 2013 at 12:16 am |
        • Glenn

          O – there is absolutely no reason for an atheist to have morals. None zip nad dah. That is the point. Because you do is great but you don't have an spaghetti monster looking over your should so why worry about morality. There simply is no reason to have morality outside of legal obligations I supposed. Past that why worry about it. You want to sleep with your neighbors wife, go for it. You want to lie cheat and steal. Good for you just don't get caught.

          December 11, 2013 at 12:51 am |
        • Observer

          Glenn,

          Why is it so hard for Christians to realize that people can have morals as the result of LOGIC and INTELLIGENCE?

          Why are those ideas so alien to Christian thinking?

          Do you believe and support EVERYTHING in the Bible? YES or NO? If not, where did your morals come from?

          December 11, 2013 at 12:57 am |
        • Glenn

          Logic and intelligence are not precursors for morality. In fact they are the opposite. Morality is doing the right thing even though it may not benefit you. Logic would dictate the direct opposite. Furthermore intelligence would dictate the same.

          December 11, 2013 at 1:04 am |
        • Joey

          Rich, in the end no Christian takes personal responsibility for their actions as they just let Jesus take their punishment.

          December 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
      • Kettle

        He is just like the atheists that try to dictate what the Christian believes.

        December 10, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
      • tallulah13

        What part of it wasn't a lie, Glenn?

        December 10, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
        • Glenn

          And that is the best you have? Interesting

          December 10, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Do you have proof of what you say, Glenn?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:08 pm |
        • Glenn

          What are you asking proof of what exactly?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Have you already forgotten your original statement, Glenn? Here's a reminder:

          "Atheist Manifesto

          There is no God and I hate him"

          December 10, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
      • fred

        tallulah13
        When one does good when there is an evil option I doubt you would argue the universe is just a little better off. When a Christian strives to please God by doing good and responding with purity as clearly set out in the Bible the universe is just a little better off. When God sets an absolute moral standard and believers attempt to follow the universe is just a little better than it was before.
        Even if you are so fortunate as to experience at death something other than God the universe was still just a little better than it would have been without God.
        Exactly what is the value in tearing down our hope where the only possible result is to leave the universe a little worse than when you woke up this morning?

        December 11, 2013 at 12:55 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I wouldn't hate an omnibenevolent god., but none leaves any trace of its existence.

      December 10, 2013 at 10:59 pm |
      • Kicking Ass for the Lord

        That's what heaven is for.
        This isn't heaven yet.

        December 11, 2013 at 7:47 am |
    • Philip Douglas

      Do you even know what the word atheist means, Glenn?

      December 10, 2013 at 11:00 pm |
      • Glenn

        Please educate me

        December 10, 2013 at 11:01 pm |
        • Philip Douglas

          In other words, no, you don't.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:05 pm |
        • Glenn

          Waiting on that definition Phil

          December 10, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a god or gods. That's it. Nothing more that that, no matter how much you lie about it, Glenn.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
        • Glenn

          What is the lie you are talking about?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
        • tallulah13

          Oh dear. I think I was fooled by a troll. For surely an intelligent person would remember what they posted not ten minutes ago.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:20 pm |
        • http://dylantschumacher.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/there-is-no-god-and-i-hate-him/

          To be fair, most of the time these “hard core atheists” are young, white, male, college students who are majoring in physics to “disprove God”. These are they guys who troll the blogs to refute religious wackos like me. Or they are aged men who write spend their careers refuting the existence of God. See; Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:26 pm |
        • tallulah13

          How funny. I'm a middle-aged woman and most of the atheists I know are around my age and of both genders.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:32 pm |
        • http://www.atheismresource.com/2011/white-male-face-atheism-change-that

          http://www.atheismresource.com/2011/white-male-face-atheism-change-that

          "Surveys suggest most atheists are white men. A recent survey of 4,000 members of the Freedom from Religion Foundation found that 95 percent were white, and men comprised a majority."

          December 10, 2013 at 11:36 pm |
        • Paul

          Most atheists I know don't spend all day long talking about religion, Christians and God on faith blogs. Both genders.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:48 pm |
      • I Know!

        Atheism has nothing to do with science, logic, reason, intelligence or facts.
        It just means you don't believe in God.

        December 10, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
        • You know

          Nothing!

          December 10, 2013 at 11:07 pm |
        • I Know!

          97.44% of the atheists that post on here are not qualified in any US state to teach others about science, logic or reason.

          http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-religion-blog-cnn-atheists-facts.html

          December 10, 2013 at 11:11 pm |
        • You still know

          Nothing! Lmfao!

          December 10, 2013 at 11:27 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      And once again for the newbies:

      The Apostles' Creed 2013: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
      and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (references used are available upon request)

      December 10, 2013 at 11:22 pm |
    • Lou

      We debate with religious people because religion influences the society we live in.

      But I agree that hate is not exclusive to religion. But it certainly doesn't help. For example, if you believe that a book is completely true, and that book orders you to kill people for things like working on Saturday or being gay, then there is a problem.

      December 10, 2013 at 11:55 pm |
  7. Sara Waits

    ?

    December 10, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
  8. Paul

    "Evolution has been observed. It's just that it hasn't been observed while it's happening." – Richard Dawkins

    http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript349_full.html

    December 10, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
    • 2+2=4

      Evolution is still a theory, not a fact (and, no, I don't mean microevolution).

      December 10, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        Evolution is actually a group of principles. Much of it is implied by information theory and results from other branches of mathematics. If someone wanted to maintain that it does not occur, a long explanation as to why not would be in order.

        December 10, 2013 at 10:02 pm |
        • George Michael

          Because nobody has actually observed it happening. We have to use faith faith faith... baaaaaaby!

          December 10, 2013 at 10:04 pm |
        • redzoa

          Clearly, what Dawkins was referring to was the higher morphological/taxonomic or "macroevolutionary" changes. What we have observed in real time is the process of mutation, filtered through selection, generating novel functionality (e.g. Lenski's E.coli, the Pod Mrcaru Lizards). What we have also observed in real time is the plasticity of forms via artificial selection.

          Still, we have a mechanism which produces significant changes in organisms culminating in speciation events. We also have phylogenetic analyses of extant and extinct forms. Lastly, we have a progressively ordered fossil record. Evolution is the only explanation based in the observable empirical physical evidence which accounts for all of these observations.

          Feel free, however, to explain the progressive order of the fossil record, but please remember two things. First, a "God did it" explanation can explain any and all observations and it cannot be falsified. An explanation which explains anything and everything, effectively explains nothing. Second, "hydrodynamic sorting," "eco-zonation," "differential escape," and "floating biomes," all fail to adequately explain the progressive ordering of the fossil record, specifically the fact that organisms of relatively similar density, similar ecology, and within the same general geographic areas are separated by many, many layers of intervening strata.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
        • George Michael

          Shhhh... internet atheist. I just said you were using faith. I never said anything about "God did it" That is your "logic" at work.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:17 pm |
        • redzoa

          There is "faith" in the absence of evidence and there is "faith" in the consistency/reality of nature. It appears you're attempting, by projection, to conflate the latter with the former.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:21 pm |
      • don't feed the troll

        n/m

        December 10, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
    • George Michael

      It takes faith to believe in something that can't be observed while it is happening.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:54 pm |
      • Doris

        Well it takes faith if you want to call it that for a lot of things. Some things are closer to us and others around us and therefore we assign a high "truth" value to it. Take Abraham Lincoln for instance. Not only do we have writings, but we can go dig him up if we need to. We also only have many connections to him over not very many generations between many people and families in the country. I don't know much about evolution, but I get the feeling we are close to that kind of understanding, connection and acceptance of it with the evidence at hand. I don't feel the same way about hearsay historians of the first few centuries, nor some alleged 500 people and the related authors who were not really authors surrounding a not-so-unique story that seems built atop even less credible folklore.

        December 10, 2013 at 10:05 pm |
        • Doris

          Correction – third sentence: " We also have many connections...." (scratch "only")

          December 10, 2013 at 10:06 pm |
        • George Michael

          Thanks for sharing your faith with me.

          December 10, 2013 at 10:13 pm |
      • In Santa we trust

        So you don't believe the Genesis stories. That's a start. Big Bang and DNA allow us to work backwards, and what we observe in the world supports evolution not creationism.

        December 10, 2013 at 10:31 pm |
        • Saraswati

          If you describe belief in George Washington as faith the words meaning is significantly diluted.

          December 10, 2013 at 10:50 pm |
        • George Michael

          iSanta,
          You just made a stupid remark. Care to fix it?

          December 10, 2013 at 11:04 pm |
      • Busted

        George repeatedly uses the Fallacy of Equivocation. And his taste in music stinks.

        December 10, 2013 at 10:49 pm |
        • George Michael

          If not one human being has observed evolution in action it must be based on faith in theories, observations and guesses.
          Even well-known evolutionists freely admit this. It is the internet, hostile atheists that don't understand this.

          December 10, 2013 at 11:16 pm |
    • redzoa

      Geez, this is like whack-a-mole. Here ya go again Paul:

      1) Is there any evidence which could convince you that evolution (i.e. common descent, humans from non-human ancestors, etc) is true?

      and;

      2) Is it possible that the God of Bible doesn't actually exist?

      Again, I understand these are complex questions and so I appreciate your taking the time to really think about them in order to provide a well-reasoned response. In the mean time, however, feel free to attack the simpler question of how did the fossil record come to be arranged in a progressive order, i.e. first fish, then amphibians, then reptiles, then mammals, then birds?

      I continue to patiently look forward to your responses . . .

      December 10, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
      • Maria

        We are so much better than them, hu?

        December 10, 2013 at 11:13 pm |
  9. Bicket

    So what is the statue going to look like?

    December 10, 2013 at 9:24 pm |
    • VooDooMama Juju

      Pentagram with a lady having an abortion in the middle.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
      • Pete

        Pentagram with a lady denied abortion rights in the middle.

        December 10, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
      • Likewise

        It will be right next to the Jesus asking for even more money statue and the Allah in a bomb vest statue.

        December 10, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
    • Pete

      Rush Limbaugh!

      December 10, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
      • Rose

        There isn't a stone large

        December 10, 2013 at 9:29 pm |
        • Pete

          Or as dense! 🙂

          December 10, 2013 at 9:42 pm |
  10. OO OO

    i constantly amaze myself. my intellectual prowess is so far above all others at this dump, i'm beyond incredible. through prophecy it must be, i imagine, because i c what they can't and i'm ALWAYS right.

    December 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
    • Doris

      it's engorged again, and probably tingly

      December 10, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
      • OO OO

        The better to frapping with, my dear. As I look at myself in the mirror.

        December 10, 2013 at 9:18 pm |
    • Sue

      Well, that's basically how creationists see themselves, as ironic as that sounds.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:16 pm |
    • Sam

      Well, that's basically how atheists see themselves, as ironic as that sounds.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
      • Sue

        And they say that there's nothing original in Christianity! 🙂

        December 10, 2013 at 9:26 pm |
        • Sam

          I'm not Christian. 🙁 Sorry.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
        • Sue

          Nothing at all to be sorry about that.

          You should actually rejoice!!

          December 10, 2013 at 9:30 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          "Rejoice, rejoice, we have no choice but to carry on"

          December 10, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
        • Sam

          Oh, you are a bigot.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:32 pm |
        • Dean

          So are you, Sammy. Without an original thought in your head.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
        • Sue

          Sam
          I disagree with you and/or Christians, that doesn't make me a "bigot". Nobody was ever born with an ideology like "Christian".

          December 10, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
        • Sam

          I am a bigot. At least I'm not in denial about it or try to rationalize my way around it like Sue.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:46 pm |
        • Sue

          Sam
          Are you a bigot with everyone that you disagree with?

          December 10, 2013 at 9:49 pm |
        • Sam

          I ironically rationalize my bad behavior toward people I don't like in an attempt to feel better about myself.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:59 pm |
      • Seu

        Aw, thanks for sharing Mr Atheist.

        December 10, 2013 at 10:01 pm |
      • Seu

        Doesn't the IRONY eat you alive? You trolling, using a different troll handle. Not logical at all!

        December 10, 2013 at 10:16 pm |
  11. Dyslexic doG

    what or who created your god?

    December 10, 2013 at 9:05 pm |
    • 0o0o0o

      Natural processes created God.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
    • Christian

      No creation required, he exists outside the constraints of scientific laws. He made them.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:12 pm |
      • Sue

        Or so he (supposedly) says, but what if he's mistaken? Maybe he just doesn't remember his parents?

        December 10, 2013 at 9:17 pm |
        • Christian

          Evolution and Humanism is a religion. it requires faith to believe it because you can't prove it but you believe it anyway.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
        • Sue

          Christian
          Then medicine and every other science is also religion, because evolution simply matches the same professional discipline of science that you trust every day without giving it a second thought. Evolution theory directly has a hand in producing the vaccines you rely on to keep you free from illness. That's not "faith", it's confidence in science with a proven track record.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
        • Saraswatiu

          Christian, You can't prove you existed 30 seconds ago. Is that a religion?

          December 10, 2013 at 10:53 pm |
      • Tess

        "no creation required" but a giant leap into the illogical. Like He was just floating around. Sorry. Not logical. I guess that's why it's called faith instead if knowledge.

        December 10, 2013 at 9:25 pm |
        • SciFy

          It is quite possible things exist outside of our universe and understanding. Doesn't mean they are just aimlessly floating around.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:30 pm |
        • Tess

          Talking about God.
          What a load of hooey.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
        • Christian

          You make alot of assumptions... lets ask this question. How many laws of science does the theory of evolution and the Big Bang Violate? you literally contradicted yourself. Law of Biogenesis, 1st Law of thermodynamics, 2nd law of thermodynamics, shall i keep going?

          December 10, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Let's take those one at a time Christian. We'll get you fixed up in no time. No need for gods.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
        • Sue

          Christian
          The only one I've ever heard argued is the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and that's lame because we get a constant supply of energy from the sun, so this isn't a "closed system." Can you explain how the rest could be violated, because I really don't have the imagination to guess.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
        • Doris

          OK. OK. Monitor mode. getting some popcorn..

          December 10, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
        • Tess

          Since you can't tell me who created God, which was the original question, I think the assumptions are not on MY part.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
        • Rose

          Wow, nice fumble on the science there bud. The "law of biogenesis" is not a law but Pasteur's opinion, and no one bothers with it.

          And oh dear, that ole "laws of thermodynamics" flopperoo! Yes, as usual, they apply to energy states in a closed system, not biology. Duh.

          Stop pretending you have a grasp of science, because you are deeply humiliating yourself by proclaiming your ignorance so loudly.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:42 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          Christian's Law of Biogenesis pretty much died with Friedrich Wöhler's observations that are foundational to organic chemistry. Life is nothing more than its underlying chemistry.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:45 pm |
        • Pete

          Rose
          With creationists, all they have to do is list catch-word arguments like these knowing that believers won't bother, are incapable of, or are just too lazy to fact check. They grasp onto these excuses like people dangling from a cliff.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:48 pm |
        • Doris

          Well darn – I didn't even get a chance to salt the popcorn.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:49 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          I can pretend to be Christian if she/he won't return to defend the unique and eternal vital force that is from God.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
      • Dandintac

        These are huge, sweeping assertions you make. Do you have even a sliver of hard, verifiable evidence that is testable? Please share.

        December 10, 2013 at 9:41 pm |
  12. oo oo

    But Murdock has added quote marks to the passage above - they are not in the original.

    And what do the three dots in the first sentence of Murdock's version of this citation represent? ("Mythicists' arguments are fairly plausible... According to them, Jesus was never mentioned in any Roman sources and there is no archeological evidence that Jesus ever existed.")

    Those are the little dots where "Ehrman says" used to be.

    That's right, Murdock actually takes the words "Ehrman says" out of that sentence here. She then inserts the quote marks, to make it sound as if these words were Ehrman's own, rather than the reporter's second-hand summary of what Erhman actually said.

    December 10, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
    • what passage above??

      above your post it says soundoff (2,326 Responses)

      December 10, 2013 at 8:59 pm |
      • Also

        Below your post it says
        "December 10, 2013 at 8:59 pm | Report abuse | Reply"

        December 10, 2013 at 9:01 pm |
    • oo oo

      If Murdock can't be trusted to accurately quote even an article she has just linked to, why should we trust any of her other quotes - say, the fawning blurbs her disciples supposedly give, or the credit various scholars, journalists and pastors are cited as giving her? Maybe those quotes, too, are misattributed. Or her own citations of obscure ancient authors on the allegedly ahistorical Jesus? Why should we trust them? (Indeed, many of them, too, seem to be fake.) CHRIST THE TAO

      December 10, 2013 at 9:03 pm |
      • whatever it is

        I don't believe you. why? because you're not referencing something we can see. if you gave the date, time and article here on the BB where this person said something, then we could check it out. but you have a habit of complaining about something out of sight.

        December 10, 2013 at 9:07 pm |
        • I know...

          ...I have no idea who or what this person is talking about...

          December 10, 2013 at 9:11 pm |
      • oo oo

        Good scholarship depends heavily on accurately ascribing sources. But these are not his words. Murdock is not engaging in scholarship, she is engaging in a rather silly form of fraud. Murdock simply lies to her readers, by misquoting the target of her wrath. CHRIST THE TAO

        December 10, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
        • Dean

          Who the hell is Murdock and why should anyone care??

          December 10, 2013 at 9:47 pm |
  13. Apple Bush

    Every single word and each commandment in God’s legal top-10 list is ignored, deliberately violated, or considered a silly relic by Americans except for two: murder and stealing. But according to the historical and anthropological record, every society on earth, including those existing well before the Old Testament was dreamt of, has proscribed murder and stealing.

    December 10, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • oo oo

      What r u drinking?

      December 10, 2013 at 8:44 pm |
      • oo oo

        U've had too much

        December 10, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
      • Philip Douglas

        Are you retarded?

        December 10, 2013 at 8:46 pm |
  14. Rodo

    So does this mean that a statue of an angel is to be erected? The devil was "The Fallen Angel" Man depicted the horned and hoofed version of Satan.

    December 10, 2013 at 8:39 pm |
    • Sue

      Satan's beauty is supposed to be symbolic of his pride and attractiveness to people, and his ugliness is supposed to be symbolic of his evilness.

      December 10, 2013 at 9:22 pm |
  15. Mary

    Why did God make me a lesbian? It is his will and I accept that.

    December 10, 2013 at 8:37 pm |
    • Douglas

      Nothing wrong with being gay. I am.

      December 10, 2013 at 8:47 pm |
      • Mary

        Why are you rimming for Satan?

        December 10, 2013 at 8:52 pm |
        • Douglas

          Why are you?

          December 10, 2013 at 9:06 pm |
  16. Apple Bush

    God says thou shalt not steal just a few chapters before he explains how he’s going to help the Jews invade every single neighboring nation to murder them and take their land and possessions. To be fair to American Catholics though, this is a past-time the founding fathers also enjoyed.

    December 10, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
  17. Mary

    Why do Satanists say evil things and yet don't want to be regarded as being evil?

    December 10, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
    • Philip Douglas

      What have I said that is evil?

      December 10, 2013 at 8:49 pm |
    • doobzz

      What do Satanists say that you believe is evil?

      December 11, 2013 at 12:05 am |
  18. Mary

    Why would say such an evil thing? Are you a Satanist?

    December 10, 2013 at 8:34 pm |
    • doobzz

      What are you talking about? Are you hearing voices?

      December 11, 2013 at 12:06 am |
  19. Apple Bush

    God’s petulant threat to prevent people from not liking him anymore is to swear that four generations of their children will suffer for de-friending Him. Although it is rarely articulated, American law is based on the idea that people are responsible for their own actions, not anyone else’s (and not those of their parent’s). American jurisprudence seems ungodly in just about every word.

    December 10, 2013 at 8:33 pm |
  20. Mary

    Last night I dreamed that Jesus touched me in my private places – and I liked it. Why is it that I have se.xual fan.tasies about Jesus?

    December 10, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
    • Mary

      Why are you impersonating me?

      December 10, 2013 at 8:33 pm |
      • Mary

        Why won't you answer my (your own) question? Why do you have such dirty thoughts?

        December 10, 2013 at 8:35 pm |
      • AE

        They are doing it to me, too. Oh well.

        December 10, 2013 at 8:40 pm |
        • AE

          Then stop impersonating others. Oh well.

          December 10, 2013 at 8:53 pm |
        • AE

          They have 10 Commandments for atheists to follow. They actually have some good ideas. You should consider applying them to your life.

          Please.

          December 10, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
        • AE

          List the 10 Commandments for atheists.

          Please.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
        • AE

          (from Colin's post on page 20)

          1. Love well
          2. Seek the good in all things
          3. Harm no others
          4. Think for yourself
          5. Take responsibility
          6. Respect nature
          7. Do your utmost
          8. Be informed
          9. Be kind
          10. Be courageous

          please try them.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:12 pm |
        • AE

          I already do. Do you? Doubtful.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:28 pm |
        • AE

          I'm sure you imagine you are following them. Your actions demonstrate differently from your words.

          December 10, 2013 at 9:35 pm |
        • AE

          In what way? What actions have I demonstrated that would make you make such an accusation?

          December 10, 2013 at 9:53 pm |
        • AE

          Posting under the name I was using. Most posters, both religious and non-religious, on here agree that is poor behavior.

          Somebody else has been posting a lot of unflattering things under other names. Is that you, too?

          December 10, 2013 at 10:11 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.