home
RSS
December 23rd, 2013
03:29 PM ET

A Christmas apology, and the seeds of hope

Opinion by Rachel Held Evans, Special to CNN

(CNN) - This week we celebrate Christmas, and as a Christian, I want to say I’m sorry.

I’m sorry that this season has become about fights over manger scenes on public property, about complaining when clerks say, “Happy Holidays,” instead of “Merry Christmas,” about rampant commercialism and faux persecution.

I’m sorry that Christians in the United States can be so entitled when we’ve long enjoyed majority status, when we can be so blind to our own privilege.

It is ironic, really, because in the church calendar, the seasons of Advent and Christmas call us to reflect upon and celebrate what Christians believe was the most radical act of humility of all time - the incarnation.

The doctrine of the incarnation holds that the God of the universe, in his love for humanity, emptied himself of his power and became human, like us, in the form of Jesus.

The word incarnation literally means “to make into flesh” and refers to the apostle John’s teaching that “(t)he Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14).

“No one has ever seen God,” John explains, but Jesus “has made him known.”

In other words, if you want to know what God is like, look at Jesus -

Jesus, who was born as an oppressed minority in an occupied land,

Jesus who was an immigrant,

Jesus, who surrounded himself with the poor, the sick, the marginalized and the “untouchables,”

Jesus who was criticized by the religious for hanging out with sinners,

Jesus who treated women with dignity and respect,

Jesus who taught his disciples to love their enemies, to give without expecting anything in return, to overcome evil with love,

Jesus who suffered,

Jesus who wept,

Jesus who - while hanging on a Roman cross - said, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Quaker theologian Elton Trueblood put it this way: “The historic Christian doctrine of the divinity of Christ does not simply mean that Jesus is like God. It is far more radical than that. It means that God is like Jesus.”

It means that God suffers, God forgives, God fellowships with the poor, God cares for the sick, God loves His enemies.

Even as a lifelong Christian, I struggle with doubts about God. I struggle to make sense of the violence in the world, the violence in the Bible, the violence in my own heart. I don’t have all the answers.

But even when there’s nothing left to my faith but a little seed of hope, that hope is in the incarnation, in the radical teaching that God loved us enough to become like us, and that when God wanted to show us what he was like, God showed us Jesus.

Rachel Held Evans is the author of "A Year of Biblical Womanhood" and "Evolving in Monkey Town." Evans blogs at rachelheldevans.com, and the views expressed in this column belong to her.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Christmas • Faith • Holidays • Opinion

soundoff (2,872 Responses)
  1. Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

    Old Man: Mr. Stotch? I know what you're thinkin'.
    Mr. Stotch: Who are you?
    Old Man: I came to talk you out of it. You need to just accept that your son is dead...and not try to bring him back.
    Mr. Stotch: Bring him back? Wha-what are you talking about?
    Old Man: I know you're thinkin' of puttin' him up there, in the Indian burial ground up that road. You're thinkin' if you bury his body there it'll come back to life. Sometimes dead is better.
    Mr. Stotch: Indian burial ground?
    Old Man: It's been done before, what you're thinkin' of. The Nelson boy, back in '85.
    Mr. Stotch: You're saying if I dig up my son's body and rebury him at the old Indian burial ground, that-
    Old Man: Don't do it, Stotch! What comes out of the ground ain't the thing you put in. The Indians knew that, that's why the stopped usin' it when the ground went sour. I'm just here to talk you out of it. [heads for the door] Don't bury your son's body at the Indian burial ground, Stotch! The one that's right up over there, by the Andersons' barn. Sometimes, dead is better.

    December 27, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
  2. Dyslexic doG

    Quoting the bible to prove a point is like you being the judge and the jury and all the witnesses at your own trial. There is zero credibility.

    The bible was written by (primitive) people in the same deluded cult as you so OF COURSE they are going to say things to back up your point of view. Likewise, your delusion comes from their deluded writings, so of course you think what they say is true.

    If I quote from a book that I wrote saying that I am the most handsome intelligent man in the world, how much factual credibility would you give it?

    come up with some independently verifiable points from outside your cult and then we will have a great conversation!

    December 27, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Austin

      i have some examples of spiritual revelations below.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
      • Austin

        God wants your eternal life, and this is through spiritual proof within. If you rely on things physical ,you will fall short of the goal, spiritual freedom and life.

        December 27, 2013 at 2:24 pm |
        • I wonder

          Austin
          "God wants your eternal life..."

          Are you saying that "God" doesn't always get what he wants?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          the devil pushes god around a lot and interferes with his master plan. god doesn't seem to be able to do much about it.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
        • Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

          All HE wants for your eternal life is "tree-fiddy"

          December 27, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
        • AverageJoe76

          I guess 'just taking' what God wants is like feeding a tiger. It adores the 'hunt' for souls...... BWAHAHAHAHA!

          December 27, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
        • Austin

          God want a relationiship with you. He does not want an intellectual robot. you have emotions. what God did, was made you a man of choice and reason.

          for you to choose Him, glorifies Him. He deserves it,. His creation has fallen and He has saved it, and yet remains Holy. He has not been defiled.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
        • Pete

          "His creation has fallen "

          LOL! .....LOL! .....LOL! Typical of xtians, making excuses for their god. LOL!

          December 27, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
  3. Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

    Michael: God intended Kenny to die! What are these people doing?

    Angel: The Keanu Reeves boy has been revived on Earth! His soul is no longer in Heaven!
    Satan: Then GOD is helpless!

    Stan: Don't kill Kenny!
    Protesters: You bastards!

    Uriel: No! There is another. A Japanese boy did make it to level 59.
    Michael: Are you stupid, Uriel? Japanese people don't have souls!
    Angels: Yeah, Uriel!
    Uriel: Oh. Right, right. I'm sorry.

    Kevin: Keep your army marching my Lord. I will get that feeding tube removed.
    Satan: How?
    Kevin: I will do what we always do. Use the Republicans.

    December 27, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

      [The hooded figure hisses into Bush's left ear]
      George Bush: We Republicans are deeply saddened by the recent events in Colorado!
      Kevin: Removing the feeding tube is murder! Haaghaghaghaghaghagha...
      George Bush: Removing the feeding tube is murder!
      Kevin: Who are we to decide that Kenny should live or die? Haaghaghaghaghaghagha...
      George Bush: Who are we to decide that Kenny should live or die?
      Kevin: It is God's will that he live!
      George Bush: It is God's will that he live!
      Kevin: Haaghaghaghaghaghagha...
      George Bush: Haghaghaghagha...
      Kevin: No no, you don't say that part, Haaghaghaghaghaghagha . [hisses into Bush's right ear]
      George Bush: No no, you don't say that part, Haghaghaghagha.
      [the crowd is speechless]

      December 27, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
  4. AverageJoe76

    Te devil is the dumbest thing. IF the devil was real, how stupid would that character be, to knowingly go up against the Reality Creator? [snort....hahahahaha... pretty stupid, right?]. I mean, out of ANYONE, this guy knows how powerful Reality Creator is. And yet...... he challenges. Dweeb. And for something being touted as 'super-intelligent' and 'the craftiest' .... he's really not. The other 2/3rd's of angels are the smart ones. Looking at Lucifer with 'McDonald's arches' in their eyebrows while Lucifer goes against God. I'd be like, "what an idiot...... he doesn't think he'll WIN..... does he?!?" Whatta bufoon...

    December 27, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • Austin

      the truth is that you hate God/s word.
      here is an example i can give you. on night in jail, this kid racked me with a tp roll while i was sleeping. i was sick as a dog and when it hit me i sat up and threw my earphones and they broke. I just laid back down, and 3 or 4 guys over in the corner of the dorm, were taunting me. one of them who i had shared the gospel with, said "oh poor austin is trying to sleep". ok so I stared judging them and i said in my own mind "i wonder if they have the light in their eye"

      this is based on this teaching
      22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,c your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are unhealthy,d your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

      I went back to sleep, i woke up and the kid who was taunting me, who cant hear my thoughts, came up to me and said, " i had this dream last night that I was going around the room looking into peoples eyes, to see if they had a special ight in them to see who was possessed or not"

      this is the synchronicity of the spirit. Spiritual revelations are real, and you need to search God's word and pray for understanding, accept the Holy Spirit, and the truth will be revealed within you, dispite all of you ill conceived emotional nonsense. He is faithful to forgive and lift you up out of the bondage we are born

      December 27, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
      • K-switch

        Why were you in jail?

        December 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
        • Austin

          dui incedent. fyi, when i was in jail i had this dream. there were 2 snakes in a cage, and one was a rattle snake and one was a viper. I let them out.

          when i woke up, i told my bunk mate, that is a sign, something is going to happen today.

          when i went down to bible study, the teacher said "turn to proverbs 23:32
          29Who has woe? Who has sorrow?

          Who has strife? Who has complaints?

          Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes?

          30Those who linger over wine,

          who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.

          31Do not gaze at wine when it is red,

          when it sparkles in the cup,

          when it goes down smoothly!

          32In the end it bites like a snake

          and poisons like a viper.

          33Your eyes will see strange sights,

          and your mind will imagine confusing things.

          34You will be like one sleeping on the high seas,

          lying on top of the rigging.

          35“They hit me,” you will say, “but I’m not hurt!

          They beat me, but I don’t feel it!

          When will I wake up

          so I can find another drink?”

          end of quote, and I quit drinking because the Lord told me to.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        the carnal mind cannot discern the things of the Spirit... they are foolishness to him.

        December 27, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
        • Austin

          hey i would appreciate a dialog on prayer, pertaining to Mary, from a biblical standpoint. I am not a bigot.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          I posted at the top of the page to facilitate the dialogue

          December 27, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
      • AverageJoe76

        Austin, anecdotal evidence is rubbish to me. The internet ruined this tactic for you guys. Do you know how many 'money-fairy' emails I get with sweet stories about God intervening personally into someone's life? Too many.

        Dark eyes is more a sign of liver problems. Tell them to go see a doctor.

        December 27, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
        • Austin

          that is interesting. I have been to the hospital 15 times in the last 7days because my best friends liver quit woking, his kidneys quit, and its hard to see.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          How is your friend doing?
          Next time you visit him, just lay hands and him and pray: "Father, right now in the name of Jesus, I command healing to this body."
          "I command new liver and kidneys in Jesus name, amen." You can also command any pain to go.

          Then ask him to do something he couldn't do before.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
        • Austin

          I have seen a supernatural healer , or creator in my dreams. He was black, and he was with a woman. and he had a bag,and he pulled out a male reproductive track that looked like a piece of chicken, and he touched it and it formed into the full thing in healthy form, then he pulled out a pink sack like thing and he expanded it into a stomach.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          I am very intrigued by these dreams. Even though I don't interpret dreams, I know that the Holy Spirit who is Wisdom knows all things, so I am trusting that the meaning of these dreams will be revealed to me.
          When did you have this particular dream?

          P.S. don't forget to heal your friend.

          December 27, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
        • AverageJoe76

          I must admit, dreams are interesting, and may have a deeper meaning. None of which I'm certain of. But definitely make sure your friends continues his doctor's visits.

          December 27, 2013 at 3:44 pm |
    • Austin

      in real life one day, a cat was on my porch i had never seen.

      another example, I had a dream on nght i was walking through a forest and it was cold, and dark as night,and there was an a frame cabin. i knocked on the door,and a lady opened and she said i could stay there. she had two kids, one was sitting on a stool, and the other one was dead and it's spirit was in the corner of the room singing in a demonic dual tone voice, and my body inverted and levitated in the air. i was haning upside down, and the cat from my porch, ran underneath me with a cut and blood gushing out of it.

      I woke up and knew this was about the cat. and i walked down my driveway, and there was the cat, flatter than a pancake on the highway. the highway is 550 feet from my house.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK-CusqRE0Y

        December 27, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
      • Austin

        thanks, i like this guy. i am going to research some more about him.

        December 27, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          He's a son of God. He interprets dreams for professors at M.I.T. etc. that's how many of the inventions and discoveries have come about.. (not just through him but others like him).

          Most people forgot Joseph was a dreamer. And when they boast of the things of the world, they forget that the wisdom that governed Egypt is from the house of God (Joseph)

          Watch John Paul's : Voice of the Prophets 2013 ( when you can)

          December 27, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
        • Austin

          ok i appreciate that. yesterday, had i got on your nerves or was someone else using your handle? because someone with your handle was chewing me out. btw, my 3rd and final session is about up here at the library. will have to go.

          December 27, 2013 at 3:19 pm |
      • Pam

        We've been through this with you about the cat, you knew the cat was sick and needed help and you ignored it which lead to it being killed. You knew deep down that by not helping the cat you were morally bankrupt which is why your brain tried to process this while you slept, there was no god involved. You are using your shame to promote your god demonstrates why your religion is so corrupt.

        December 27, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
  5. du

    bottom of the barrel atheists troll religious message boards.
    real atheists do things, like study science.

    December 27, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • Austin

      real science cant disprove who the Creator is though. so it isnt real because they are mostly biased.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:14 pm |
    • K-switch

      Welcome to the bottom of the barrel du.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
      • du

        Ok, not all are that bad on here. But is Dyslexic Dog and In Santa We Trust the same person? Is he retarded? Of just very young?

        December 27, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          I'm not DD. Do you anything other than insults to offer?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
        • du

          What grade are you in?

          December 27, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          du
          Do you anything other than insults to offer?
          It doesn't matter how many different handles you use – you say nothing.

          December 27, 2013 at 3:32 pm |
  6. du

    Dyslexic doG is the atheist version of lol??
    (that is why even the atheists ignore him)

    December 27, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
    • Abel

      God bless em.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
  7. Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

    Narrator: The little critters cheered and Beavery said with a smile
    Beavery: How would you like to sing and dance with us for a while?
    Narrator: The boy in the red poofball hat smiled and said...
    Stan: (does not smile) Uh, no thanks, I'm gonna go home.

    December 27, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
  8. Austin

    @ maddy, forget the word Catholic.

    lets search the bible for lessons on prayer. Prayer is a conversation with God. Am I correct in saying "Prayer is a conversation with God?

    in strongs concordance, there are arond 600 verses with the word "prayer" . If Jesus did not pray to Mary, rather He said pray like this "our Father", then would that serve as good enough of an example?

    December 27, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      When did I realize I was God?

      Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized that I was talking to myself ...

      December 27, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Commenter

      Austin,

      Odd that Paul of Tarsus's writings, which make up over half of the NT, never mention a thing about that prayer ("Our Father...")... and Paul allegedly spoke right to the guy.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:11 pm |
    • Maddy

      You are bigoted against 1.2 billion Chistians. I should ignore that?
      You ignore everything I say. I shall do the same, except to call you out on your bigotry.
      Ignore the Marian sightings and miracles around the world.
      You deny the Mother of God.
      That's on you.
      If you wish to remain spiteful and prejudiced against millions and millions of Christians, that would be your choice.

      Let the log remain.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
  9. lol??

    The HAHA's can't control their own dogs.

    December 27, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      oh lol??

      you always have the best posts. I love reading them. they say sooo much.

      keep posting, and thank you. 🙂

      December 27, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
      • lol

        oh doG

        you always have the best posts. I love reading them. they say sooo much.

        keep posting the same thing over and over and on other pages, and thank you. 🙂

        December 27, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
  10. AverageJoe76

    'SIN' seems to be ancient man's best attempts at trying to draw a line between the animals and humans (but, ah-ha, 'humans' ARE animals)

    I mean, c'mon..... no relations before marriage is sinful? [ that's one of the dumbest things I ever heard of ]

    Aaaaaaaaand – what's the percentage of all humans that EVER lived that followed that?!? like .000000000000000002%
    (we's alls gonna die 'cause we's horn+knee?)

    December 27, 2013 at 2:00 pm |
    • lol??

      Beastie pwogwessive marriage??

      December 27, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
      • AverageJoe76

        Is that a Honey Boo-Boo imitation your doing? Replacing the 'r' s with 'w' s? You don't talk to people like that forreal, do you?

        December 27, 2013 at 2:16 pm |
  11. stanky weed patch

    I am thankful the bible shows us what to do to gain life everlasting

    December 27, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
    • Retarded doGG Reasoning

      I'm thankful that I can call you a retarded jerk and in my mind I think that makes me helping you.

      December 27, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Ron

      Stanky, yes, Thank God for His revelation.

      December 27, 2013 at 2:09 pm |
  12. Ron

    "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do NOT lean on your own understanding." ...Solomon (Proverbs 3:5) This was written by the wisest man who ever lived on this earth apart from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    December 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      I don't suppose engineers trust in the Lord with all their hearts to hold a building up for them.

      December 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
      • Ron

        Tom, in regards to things we do not or cannot underatand, we trust Him. His perspective is a bit greater than ours. Don't ya think?

        December 27, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
        • Joey

          No, I don't think that at all, and won't until you can prove your god exists without mentioning the bible.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
        • Everyone else

          YES!

          December 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          ah Ron, you have the logic of a 2 year old

          December 27, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
        • Austin

          you are asking God to prove something to you , and rejecting His book. the key is this, that you find proof through the voice of the Holy Spirit, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

          John 3:3 ►

          New International Version
          Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

          December 27, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
        • Austin

          Dislexic Dog, how bout you remove any personal bias you have, and stay open to the possibilities?

          December 27, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
        • du

          doG has to be the most closed-minded and deluded person I've ever had to the misfortune to read.
          and i'm not christian so save your hokey, greeting card sayings and that somehow you think prove a point

          December 27, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
        • Maddy

          Why don't you, Austin? You have an atheist view of Catholicism.
          Like I suggested on the previous story, take the log out of your own eye.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
        • Ron

          Austin, amen

          December 27, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
        • Austin

          maddy, you have not provided ANY biblical responses and you are siding now with a bible rejecting individual . are you wililing to confront anything with biblical wisdom?

          December 27, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
        • Science Works

          Austin

          Around the planet and out in space with CNN .

          Top science and space stories of 2013

          By Elizabeth Landau and Matt Smith, CNN
          December 26, 2013 - Updated 1933 GMT (0333 HKT) | Filed under: Innovations

          Old species and new

          Back on Earth, the animal kingdom got several important additions this year. Some had been extinct for millions of years; some are alive now, and were just hard to find.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          letter to Austin

          I am open to anything that is provable and factual. I am amazed by new discoveries in this world and in this universe every day.

          If your god or any god appeared today, I would believe. If your god or any god spoke to the world today, I would believe. If your god or any god showed his presence in ANY way, I would believe.

          but while you ask me to believe your bonze age voodoo without a shred of proof other than your laughable book of fairy stories, I will continue to shake my head in amazement at your infantile dim wittedness, and continue to live in the light of the real world.

          your religion is a scam that ret.ards the progress of the human race and harms my family and my life, so I will fight it with every ounce of my being.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
        • Interathnet

          I'm so atheist I reject the Big Bang theory because it was fathered by a Catholic Priest.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:01 pm |
        • Interathnet

          I'm so atheist I refuse to have surgery on my busted knee because most likely the doctor will be religious.

          And I'm not going to let a deluded Xtiard operate on my knee. Even if he has a higher intelligence and more prestigious education than me.

          I'm that atheist.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Interathnet
          "I'm so atheist I reject the Big Bang theory because it was fathered by a Catholic Priest."

          Do you have any evidence to support that? Or is another random tangent to move the conversation away from religion's obvious flaws and inconsistencies?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:06 pm |
        • lol

          http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/essaybooks/cosmic/p_lemaitre.html

          December 27, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
        • Interathnet

          really i'm not smart enough to be an atheist i'm just a wannabe troll

          December 27, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
        • lol

          "According to the Big Bang theory, the expansion of the observable universe began with the explosion of a single particle at a definite point in time. This startling idea first appeared in scientific form in 1931, in a paper by Georges Lemaître, a Belgian cosmologist and Catholic priest. The theory, accepted by nearly all astronomers today, was a radical departure from scientific orthodoxy in the 1930s. Many astronomers at the time were still uncomfortable with the idea that the universe is expanding. That the entire observable universe of galaxies began with a bang seemed preposterous. "

          December 27, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
        • Joey

          The best thing about that Catholic Priest is that just like atheists he wasn't content with "god did it" as the answer to a question.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
        • Austin

          At Dislexic Dog

          " If your god or any god showed his presence in ANY way, I would believe. "

          start by admitting that you can not prove the bible wrong, that you cant prove my testimony wrong because it is true, thats why im talking to you, and then since you agreed that you would be open to God showing HIs presence, you should listen again...............

          God will show His presence to you, if you seek him diligently THROUGH PRAYER AND READING THE WORD..

          would you be able to read his word, and pray to Him for help?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Austin,
          "... you can not prove the bible wrong, ..."

          Actually that is not true – the Genesis story is proven incorrect. Evolution, Big Bang, and more show the 6-day creation did not happen as described. Geology shows that there is no evidence of a global flood. No way to verify the woman into salt, man living in a fish, etc. but they are too incredible to be true.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:21 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          Austin, I am sorry but the bible is proven SO wrong in SO many ways that it has no credibility.

          and everything stops there. how could I believe in your god when the only proof you have of his existence is a flawed book?

          Joseph Smith wrote a book equally as flawed as the bible and he has millions of followers as convinced as you.

          L Ron Hubbard wrote a book equally as flawed as the bible and he has millions of followers as convinced as you.

          Please wake up Austin! The real world is an amazing place!

          December 27, 2013 at 2:26 pm |
        • Maddy

          Austin, I was asking YOU, evidenced by my saying "Austin..."

          Jer 23:25-29 (NIV) "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?.. Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the Lord. "Is not my word like fire," declares the Lord, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?"

          I believe your dreams, and by extension you, are false prophecy.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
        • Mark

          "he best thing about that Catholic Priest is that just like atheists he wasn't content with "god did it" as the answer to a question.
          OK, that is retarded. Not all non-atheists just say "God did it." And atheists, like non-atheists, can study science. Only the atheist will say his is better because he didn't say "God did it"
          And you aren't a scientist.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
        • Maddy

          And, Austin, don't EVER question my faith again, based on the number of cut and pastes. If you cannot debate without you c/p things, that is not my fault.

          You are still a religious bigot.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
        • Dyslexic dawG

          Hey, I c/p, too. But since I don't believe in sky fairies, when I do it is cool. Right?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      and once again, was a man in the same delusional cult.

      and a man without any knowledge of things that a 5 year old knows today.

      as wise as he wrote down that he was, he was still an ignorant primitive man.

      December 27, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
      • Ron

        Yes, you are part of a delusional cult. Indications of that are your anger and hostility towards God and His Word and His people.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          I am angry at the cancer that is religion, not the religious.

          I actually feel sorry for you poor confused christians, but then I remind myself that if I can save one of you from wasting your lives and retarding the progress of the human race, then it's worth my effort.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:50 pm |
        • du

          I am angry at the cancer that is atheism, not the atheists.

          I actually feel sorry for you poor confused atheists, but then I remind myself that if I can save one of you from wasting your lives and retarding the progress of the human race, then it's worth my effort.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
        • Retarded doGG Reasoning

          "I'm helping people by attacking them and insulting them, all while acting like an internet bully with a 3rd grader's understanding of Christianity."

          December 27, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          du the mimic

          like a parrot.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
        • Interathnet

          Dyslexic doG the copy and paster.

          Like a spammer. Never on topic or makes sense.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • Johnny Travis

          It seems to me that a third graders understanding of Christianity is enough to realize for the lie that it is.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
        • du

          The sad thing is, many of these atheists also only have a 3rd graders understanding of science.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:42 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          du
          "The sad thing is, many of these atheists also only have a 3rd graders understanding of science."

          So astound us. Respond to the scientific evidence instead of just calling atheists names.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
        • Johnny Travis

          While that may be true, a third grader's understanding of science is enough to prove Genesis wrong, and without a literal Adam and Eve, to me at least, Christianity falls apart.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:49 pm |
        • du

          Yea, not all follow a literal interpretation. I'm saying their understanding of theology is childish. It is like they watched too many cartoons. And they really don't know much about science. They just believe whatever the anti-religious websites tell them.
          They act like internet trolls, not actual scientists. It is a fact.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          du,
          Yet again you have nothing to add.
          The best that can be said regarding a god is that it is possible pre-Big Bang which means none of the personal gods of religions.
          I don't recall ever going to an "anti-religious website" but I don't need that to know that religious belief is not based on any evidence other than self-serving circular logic.
          You protest too much for a non-believer just trying to have a reasonable conversation.

          December 27, 2013 at 3:07 pm |
        • Austin

          the reality of the prophetic Word, who was in the beginning, is proof of Adam and Eve, literally.

          December 28, 2013 at 5:21 pm |
    • Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

      Cartman: Töten Sie die Juden! Wir können nicht stillstehen bis sie alle tot sind! [Kill all the Jews! We cannot stand still 'till all are dead!] Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready to do thy bidding, Mel Gibson.

      December 27, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
  13. Ron

    "Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leads to destruction...For small is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leads to lfe, and there are few that find it." ...Jesus (Mathew 7:14)

    December 27, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      why quote from a book written by people in the same cult as you? what does that prove?

      December 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
      • Ron

        He is still working among men. His work will continue until the end of the age. PTL

        December 27, 2013 at 1:41 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          more hokey, greeting card sayings.
          like safety blankets for Christians.
          they can spit them out on demand.
          and somehow think that they proved a point.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
        • FailPost

          more hokey, greeting card sayings.
          like safety blankets for Canadians
          they can spit them out on demand.
          and somehow think that they proved a point.

          You can put whatever group you hate, and post this and....welll....somehow think you've proved a point.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          gee that was clever. I see what you did there. good work.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
        • du

          Yea, you can put whatever name you want in there.
          And somehow think you proved a point. Just like you try.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm |
        • Ron

          Du and Failpost, right. Atheists don't make points, they just let off steam. lol

          December 27, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
        • Interathnet

          Every single point is a logical fallacy.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          here's a point. who created your god?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • Commenter

          Ron
          "He is still working among men. His work will continue until the end of the age."

          "He" sounds like quite an ineffective and impotent being. It should be a snap for "Him" to provide convincing evidence for everyone, if that's what "He" wants.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:04 pm |
        • Ron

          Commenter, with comments like that, somehow, I don't think you will gain His favor.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:07 pm |
        • Ron

          Dys, thats not a point my friend, that is a question. The answer is NO ONE! God is of couse, self-existent. He revealed Himself to Israel as "I AM". That is the answer. But somehow, I don't really think you are looking for answers.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:19 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Interathnet
          "Every single point is a logical fallacy."

          Examples?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          but Ron, don't you believe that everything must have been created?

          December 27, 2013 at 2:31 pm |
        • Phil

          Dyslexic, eveything has been created except for the Creator Himself.

          December 28, 2013 at 5:17 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          Who gets to decide what things are and are not created? I don't know why and how we are here, but I'm not going to invent some big invisible sky wizard chanting magic spells to feel better about not knowing why and how we are here, because then I'll have two things that can't be proved: the universe, and the god that I claim "made" it. How is that an improvement?

          December 28, 2013 at 5:24 pm |
  14. Ron

    "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, unless anyone should baost.' ...Ephesians 2:8-9

    December 27, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      why quote from a book written by people in the same cult as you? what does that prove?

      December 27, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
      • du

        You are trolling the message board of a religious article, genius. It is quite logical to see a reference to the Bible.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          I understand why it was posted but it has little more value than a line from a Harry Potter Book or a Scooby Doo comic.

          I am just wondering why a random line from a story book proves anything.

          and re your insult ... not very Christian of you, you fraud!

          even at my modest intelligence levels, I can see your book of bronze age voodoo for the fraud that it is. which doesn't say much for you.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
        • du

          {and re your insult ... not very Christian of you, you fraud!}
          I'm not Christian. I'm not surprised to see Bible quotes, the author is Christian.
          {even at my modest intelligence levels, I can see your book of bronze age voodoo for the fraud that it is. which doesn't say much for you.}
          Your posts..not very intelligent of you you fraud. Why do you post the same things in 2 different forums?
          what does that prove?
          that you can spam? Wow, so cool of you fraud intelligence.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:51 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Understandable maybe but circular logic does not add anything to the discussion. The creation myths are disproven and the religion is therefore without foundation. The bible compilation is a frequent topic here and there is no evidence that it is the word of a god or of Jesus – it may have been inspired by a belief in a god but even that cannot be verified. Christians scoff at Mormons, Scientologists etc, but their own religion has similarly dubious origins.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
        • du

          Just because a few internet message board posters say they are disproven doesn't make them disproven. Even if they use hostile names like Retarded Dogg and In Easter Bunny we trust.
          You guys are idiots and are bottom of the barrel atheists that get off on trolling religious blogs. You are not rocket scientists. And you never will be.
          You are sad. Even most atheists admit people like you act just like the fundie xtards.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:12 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          du
          "Just because a few internet message board posters say they are disproven doesn't make them disproven."

          All the evidence shows that the 6-day creation did not happen. Do you have evidence that it did?
          If you have a point make it, rather than sniping at atheist posters. You could be the most famous person in christendom – you could be the one to show that modern science is wrong and the imaginings of Middle Eastern Bronze Age nomadic goatherders is actually the truth. I won't hold my breath.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
        • du

          i'm not christian or religious, yet i know not efveryon believe or preaches in a literal interpretation.
          it has not all been proven wrong. i don't believe in it. But that doesn't make it false.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:35 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          du,
          The important parts of Genesis are proven wrong – 6-day creation, global flood. Some things cannot be verified – woman into salt, man living in fish, etc. but are so incredible that they cannot be true. There goes the foundation along with original sin.
          As I said in one my earlier posts – you could make a name for yourself if you have evidence that these superstitions are actually true.

          December 27, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
  15. Dog Busters!

    The greatest scientific theories were the result of irrational thinking of great minds, who went outside the “logic” of their time…

    December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Vic

      Good point. Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein are prime examples of that, they are still debated today. This universe and life in it are just too much of circumstantial evidence of an unexplainable Power.

      December 27, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
      • du

        science and life — if you can feel (yourself) you have a soul . if you can think symbolic, you have a spirit .scientists could not tell you, what feeling and thinking is . they measure only the shadows of the reality, because their instruments can not feel and think .you surely know plato’s cave parable . science only see the shadows .

        December 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
        • Vic

          Interesting. Yes, scratching the surface or, as I put it, the tail end of reality.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:56 pm |
      • In Santa we trust

        Vic,
        The origin of the singularity may never be known to us, and yes a lot of things had to be just right for earth to have the right conditions for life and for humans to evolve, but there are billions of galaxies in the universe each with billions of stars so there's a reasonable chance that the conditions would exist at least once (obviously they did as we're here). None of that is evidence of a god and at best is potential evidence of a pre-Big Bang god which is not the god of any religion.

        December 27, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Going to religion for an original idea is like trying to surf on quicksand.

      December 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm |
      • DGogg

        Going to an atheist for an original idea is like trying to surf on quicksand. it works against you, too.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
      • du

        Going to Canadians for an original idea is like trying to surf on quicksand.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
      • du

        Going to middle aged men for an original idea is like trying to surf on quicksand.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
  16. Ron

    "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." ...Romans 10:9

    December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      why quote from a book written by people in the same cult as you? what does that prove?

      December 27, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
      • Ron

        God's work is with the elect. Some have already been justified (saved), others will be. The justification takes place by the Word of God. Don't under estimate the Word of God my friend.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:35 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          more hokey, greeting card sayings.
          like safety blankets for Christians.
          they can spit them out on demand.
          and somehow think that they proved a point.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
        • AverageJoe76

          I don't know about underestimating the 'Word of God'. But I DO know about underestimating how delusional mankind can be about the 'Word of God'. There's no gods to fear, only man's response to them need heeding.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
        • Ron

          Joe, you are right, there are no gods to fear. There is only God who will deicde your eternal fate.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
        • AverageJoe76

          LOL, Ron.... are you using wordplay on me? God(s) or GOD... there's nothing to fear like that. At least not the petty kind that's worried about the newsletter that says he came here, died, and wants me to believe THAT stuff. OR.... some 'jealous' god, or the one that blames the creation as soon as it's born or something.......

          December 27, 2013 at 1:53 pm |
  17. Ron

    "For we (believers) walk by faith and not by sight." ...II Corinthians 5:7

    December 27, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      why quote from a book written by people in the same cult as you? what does that prove?

      December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
  18. Ron

    "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." ...Romans 10:17

    December 27, 2013 at 1:29 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      why quote from a book written by people in the same cult as you? what does that prove?

      December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
  19. Carlin

    A man died and was taken to his place of eternal torment by the devil. As he passed sulfurous pits and shrieking sinners, he saw a man he recognized as an atheist snuggling up to a beautiful woman.

    “That’s unfair!” he cried. “I have to roast for all eternity, and that atheist gets to spend it with a beautiful woman.”

    “Shut up,” barked the devil, jabbing him with his pitchfork. “Who are you to question that woman’s punishment?”

    December 27, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • AverageJoe76

      LOL, that's a good one

      December 27, 2013 at 1:37 pm |
  20. Sea Otter (Leader Allied Atheist Alliance)

    Stan: You don't know anything about Christianity, Cartman!
    Cartman: I know enough to exploit it.

    December 27, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Austin

      ya there is huge opportunity to exploit the lost . Satan does this
      18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and sn.atches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path

      December 27, 2013 at 1:09 pm |
      • Don't Listen to Austin

        He's a religious bigot.

        December 27, 2013 at 1:11 pm |
        • Austin

          there is only one gospel. and only one God. you can not pray to another person who is not God, because they are not omnipresent. We live in a day where we have the presence of the Holy Spirit. We pray to God the father in the name of the Son. If that is what Christ told us, why, in 1000 AD, do we begin praying to Mary?

          oops, that is an obvious mistake.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:17 pm |
        • Prior

          •"Life and death, light and darkness, hope and despair. The rift was created, and on that day, the Ori were born. But the hatred of those who strayed from the true path festered and bloomed in the dark corners of the Avernakis to which they have been cast! And consumed by this hatred, they poisoned all they touched, bringing death, darkness and despair. And the souls of their victims knew no peace, until the Ori came and whispered to them: 'Sleep, for the end draws near!' And on that day all will rejoice, when the Ori come and lay them low."

          "Hallowed are the children of the Ori."

          December 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm |
        • Austin

          I have THE NEW STRONG'S EXPANDED EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE OF THE BIBLE , right here with me, and there are about 600 references to prayer and prayers, and , NONE of them are prayers to Mary, OR ANY OTHER PERSON THAN GOD

          December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm |
        • Maddy

          Austin.
          http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu67.htm

          Stop being a bigot. You are displaying no better behavior than the atheists who are derisive of your beliefs.

          Religious bigotry against other Cheistians is especially insidious. Stop it.

          December 27, 2013 at 1:36 pm |
    • DGogg

      why quote from a cartoon written by people in the same cult as you? what does that prove?

      December 27, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.