December 31st, 2013
01:38 PM ET

Are rich Catholics mad at the Pope?

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
[twitter-follow screen_name='EricCNNBelief']

(CNN) - At least one wealthy donor in New York City is skittish about Pope Francis' comments about capitalism.

Ken Langone, the billionaire Roman Catholic who helped found Home Depot, told CNBC he has heard grumbling about the Pope's comments about the wealthy. Langone is helping to run the New York Archdiocese's $180 million fundraising effort to restore St. Patrick's Cathedral in Manhattan.

The billionaire investor and philanthropist, who gave $200 million to New York University's medical center in 2008, told CNBC an anonymous seven-figure donor felt slighted by the pope's recent comments.

Langone has not been shy about sharing those opinions with New York Archbishop Cardinal Timothy Dolan, telling him, "you get more with honey than with vinegar."

Dolan told the financial network in an interview on Monday he has heard from Langone that one wealthy donor got the "sense that the Pope is less than enthusiastic about us."

The Archbishop said he explained to Langone, "'Well, Ken, that would be a misunderstanding of the Holy Father's message. The Pope loves poor people. He also loves rich people.' ... So I said, 'Ken, thanks for bringing it to my attention. We've gotta correct to make sure this gentleman understands the Holy Father's message properly.'"

In his first apostolic exhortation, "The Joy of the Gospel," the Pope took on capitalism. He criticized an "idolatry of money" and "the inequality that spawns violence."

READ MORE: Pope Francis: No more business as usual

The Pope set his sights on "trickle-down economics," saying the theory "expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power."

“Meanwhile,” Francis added, “the excluded are still waiting.”

Those comments drew the ire of some conservatives, such as talk show host Rush Limbaugh, who called the Pope's statements "sad."

"Somebody has either written this for him or gotten to him," Limbaugh said on his radio program. "This is just pure Marxism coming out of the mouth of the Pope."

READ MORE: Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism'

The Pope fired back in an interview with Italian newspaper La Stampa that "Marxist ideology is wrong."

"But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended,” the Pope said of the comparison.

Pope: Marxist ideology is 'wrong'

This latest round of criticism appears to be an outlier, Dolan's office said on Tuesday.  Joseph Zwilling, a spokesman for the New York Archdiocese, said they "haven’t encountered more resistance – and, to be honest, (are) not sure how much resistance there even was from that one donor."

Zwilling said that because Langone withheld the name of the donor who complained, the Archdiocese cannot confirm whether the person has donated to the restoration project.

Dolan said that in a recent meeting he had with Pope Francis, the pontiff was well aware of American Catholics' financial generosity. "He's aware of our help to the missions, to the poor of the world, to international development, to peace and ... justice," Dolan told CNBC. "So, I know that he's very grateful for the ... legendary generosity of the Catholic Church in the United States."

Zwilling said the cathedral restoration fundraising was on track and "going well, slowly, but better recently." The project has raised between $80 million and $100 million of the $175 million goal, he said.

The last major restoration of St. Patrick's was in 1973 and prior to that 1949, according to the Cathedral, which said this restoration is set to be the most complete since the Cathedral opened its doors in 1879.

Other Catholic organizations and charities have reported a spike in interest and donations.

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokesperson for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had heard no grumbling about the Pope's comments on money.

"People universally seem delighted at Pope Francis’ clearly addressing the needs of our society, in particular, those in desperate need. His plain speech touches everyone. He challenges people without scaring them off. He emphasizes that we’re all in one family, where we share, rather than compete, with one another," she said.

CNN's Daniel Burke contributed to this report

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • New York • Pope • Pope Francis • United States

soundoff (813 Responses)
  1. farfarflinch

    I am mad at rich Pentecostals

    January 6, 2014 at 6:32 am |
  2. sam stone

    Pharisees r gripped by hatred, jealousy, self-pity and impulsiveness. They lack sequencing intelligence

    January 6, 2014 at 3:58 am |
  3. Universe

    Islamic scripture (Quran says)

    “The life of this world is no more than illusion and vanity, while the abode of the Hereafter is far better for the righteous. Do you not understand?! [6:32]

    “They do not value God as He should be valued. God is the Most Powerful, the Almighty.”[22:74]

    “If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.” [Quran 6:116]

    “They say , "We live only this life; we will not be resurrected. If you could only see them when they stand before their Lord! He would say, "Is this not the truth?" They would say, "Yes, by our Lord." He would say, "You have incurred the retribution by your disbelief." [6:30]

    “Losers indeed are those who disbelieve in meeting God, until the Hour comes to them suddenly, then say, "We deeply regret wasting our lives in this world." They will carry loads of their sins on their backs; what a miserable load! [6:31]

    “Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know." [2:30]

    “They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]

    “The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]

    It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is. [19:35]

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.

    January 5, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      And what else is in the koran:

      http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/005.asp et al

      o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
      "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

      "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

      "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

      "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29-)

      "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

      "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

      "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

      "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

      "Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

      "'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

      "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

      "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

      "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

      "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

      January 5, 2014 at 10:58 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        And some of the results of said passages:

        As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:

        The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century

        ■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

        and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.

        and more recently

        1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

        1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

        2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

        3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. Iraqi civilians killed as of 05/10/2013/, 113,249-123,978 mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

        4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

        5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

        6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

        7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

        8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

        9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

        10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

        11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

        12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

        13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

        14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

        15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.

        16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

        17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

        18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

        19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011

        20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011

        21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.

        22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.

        23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "

        o 24) Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:18am EDT
        BAGHDAD (Reuters) – A suicide bomber detonated an explosive-packed car outside a Shi'ite Muslim office in central Baghdad on Monday, killing at least 26 people and wounding more than 190 in an attack bearing the hallmarks of Iraq's al Qaeda affiliate.
        The bombing on a Shi'ite religious office comes at a sensitive time, with the country's fractious Shi'ite, Sunni and Kurdish blocs locked in a crisis that threatens to unravel their power-sharing deal and spill into sectarian tensions."

        25) BURGAS, Bulgaria | Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:27am EDT

        (Reuters) – A suicide bomber carried out an attack that killed seven people in a bus transporting Israeli tourists in Bulgaria, the interior minister said on Thursday, and Israel said Iranian-backed Hezbollah militants were to blame.

        26 ) September 12, 2012
        Envoy to Libya dies in rocket blast

        27) Boston Marathon horror – April 2013, four dead, hundreds injured and maimed for life.

        January 5, 2014 at 11:00 pm |
        • Maty

          It's an enormous forensic leap to indict these specific passages, which also aren't here in the original language, of being the only mitigating factor of these horrific acts.

          January 5, 2014 at 11:37 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          o On the koranic passages and world domination:
          "Mohammed could not have known the size of the world, but several passages in the Koran show that he envisioned Islam dominating all of it, however large it might be: “He it is who sent his messenger . . . that he may cause it [Islam] to prevail over all religions´(Koran 9:33, M.M. Ali; see also 48:28 and 61:9). M.M. Ali designates these three passages as “the prophecy of the ultimate triumph of Islam in the whole world.”

          Mohammed’s successors, the caliphs, quoted passages like these to inspire Muslim armies as they advanced out of Arabia, imposing Islam by the sword upon a peacefully unsuspecting Middle East and North Africa, as I described in the previous chapter.

          Islamic armies, imbued with what Mohammed claimed was divine authorization, imposed Islam by force over vast areas, all the while extorting wealth from subjugated Jews and Christians to fund their ongoing conquests. As I noted, major defeats at Tours, France, in A.D. 732, and again at Vienna, Austria, in A.D. 1683, halted Islam’s attempt to take all of Europe by force. Gradually Islamic forces were forced to retreat from Europe, except for part of the Balkans. But Islam has again set its sights on a conquest of Europe and of European civilization, wherever the latter has spread to North and South America and other regions. Muslim strategists ask their followers, Why do we find in these modern times that Allah has entrusted most of the world’s oil wealth primarily to Muslim nations?

          Their answer: Allah foresaw Islam’s need for funds to finance a final politico-religious victory over what Islam perceives as its ultimate enemy: Christianized Euro-American civilization. So, Islam follows Nazism, fascism and communism as the world’s latest hostile takeover aspirant.

          Nazis, fascists and communists failed. Does Islam have a better chance at success? I believe it will flounder if we awaken to its threat in time; yet, if there is not adequate planned resistance, Islam does have a better chance of succeeding. Communism’s world takeover attempt was guaranteed to fail because its economic policy was naively contrary to human nature. Advocating the rubric What is mine is thine, and what is thine is mine, communism failed to see that human nature will not keep those two balanced propositions in equilibrium. Like

          a female black widow spider consuming her mate, the latter part of the formula makes a meal of the former, leading to the collapse of any system based upon that formula.

          In contrast, political systems do well if they can persuade people to adhere to What’s mine is mine and What’s thine is thine maxims.

          Only if a strong religious incentive is added does such an idealistic formula have any long-term chance. Even then success will be spotty. But communism (and Nazism, for that matter) excluded religion. And that mistake was the final nail eventually clamping a lid on communism’s coffin. Communism, on a historical scale, perished while still in its childhood.

          Islam is not repeating communism’s mistake. Mating political cunning and incredible wealth with religious zeal, Islam does have a chance to succeed and will succeed unless major parts of the Western world unite to take appropriate countermeasures. But many Western leaders, unable to believe that a mere religion could possible be a serious political threat, keep proclaiming themselves as Islam-friendly, reasoning that all religions are good-aren’t they?

          A Muslim strategist in Beverly Hills, California, declared several years ago, as quoted by a friend of mine: “Now that the struggle between Western democracies and international communism is winding down, it is time for the real and final struggle to begin, and we are going to win!”

          Don Richardson

          January 6, 2014 at 6:56 am |
  4. daggerstab

    No matter how you slice and dice it, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. You may believe yourself to be one of the richest wisest men, but on the day of your judgement, do you really think that money or bribery will have earned you a VIP pass to get into the Kingdom?

    January 5, 2014 at 9:59 am |
    • Reality # 2

      Based on rigorous testing Mark 12: 17 is historical but then there is this:

      JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")

      Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.

      Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

      Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.

      Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

      So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?

      January 5, 2014 at 11:08 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Oops, add "old, infallible man from Argentina" to that mix.

        January 5, 2014 at 11:20 pm |
  5. David

    You were cheating. You learned that from a textbook long ago. You haven't answer my question. Let's go further than that. Then tell us where did lower species come from?

    January 5, 2014 at 2:26 am |
    • Reality # 2

      The stars.

      January 5, 2014 at 11:09 pm |
  6. David

    The wealthy people pay their taxes, contribute to their community, and they are concern to what is going on in the world. Be careful what you say about them. Capitalism is what make our nation strong and powerful.

    January 5, 2014 at 2:20 am |
    • R.M. Goodswell

      and its now destroying this country.....

      January 5, 2014 at 2:44 am |
      • Reality # 2

        "Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry and the means of production are controlled by private owners with the goal of making profits in a market economy.[1][2] Central characteristics of capitalism include capital acc-umulation, compete-tive markets and wage labor.[3] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which as-sets, goods, and services are exchanged. "

        The problem is with "crony capitalism", a state of affairs in which insider corruption, nepotism, monopolies and cartels dominate the system.

        January 5, 2014 at 11:22 pm |
    • VoxyBrown

      I'll say whatever I care to about the wealthy.

      Freedom is what makes our country worth living in. Without it, all that strength and power has no purpose.

      January 8, 2014 at 10:10 am |
    • jd

      its fascism capitalism is dead.a rich christian is an oxymoran.

      January 13, 2014 at 8:25 am |
  7. 00 00

    told ya

    Pharisees desire to appear victorious as they try to prove christians r wrong. They r ego driven. They r not scholars or intellectuals, either, but they long to come across like they r. They do not follow logic. They stress half-truths and innuendo.

    They hold to their doctrine like cults do which makes sense because the couple of Pharisees posting clearly can't think for themselves.

    January 4, 2014 at 11:49 pm |
    • Clarence Bodicker

      Pharisees? Seriously? What the hell century do you live in?

      January 5, 2014 at 1:14 am |
      • Sean Lynch

        Pharisees view Christ the same 4ever. They r blind and full of hate

        January 6, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
  8. Bridget

    The upset billionaire wants Pope Francis to kiss his butt like all the rest of us lesser being do. It is a good lesson in humility if he will accept it.

    January 4, 2014 at 9:56 pm |
    • Dandintac

      "It is a good lesson in humility if he will accept it."

      Clarify please–if WHO will accept what? If the billionaire will accept not having his butt kissed? Or do you mean if the Pope will accept kissing the butts of billionaires?

      In our society, billionaires like Langone have had their butts kissed so much by so many people they are apparently used to it, and for some of them it must be quite jarring when this happens–a rude shock.

      January 4, 2014 at 10:23 pm |
    • Bridget

      now there's a good post

      January 4, 2014 at 11:51 pm |
  9. Bootyfunk

    the pope is rich. very very rich. he lives in a palace, has clothes hand-made for him, has food prepared and served to him for every meal, has countless servants that clean his chambers...

    is the pope angry at himself for being rich...?

    January 4, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
    • laurence sausa

      Bootyfunk: Perhaps others have mentioned: the Pope lives in a hotel room in the Vatican. (2 rooms, bath,living quarter).
      The Pope either eats in the Cafeteria, along with the gardeners, office, service, security people in the Vatican. I would venture to say, he lives a far more austere life than you. Often at night, he ventures out from the Vatican, meets homeless, unfortunate people, and, takes them to a warm place and buys them a free meal. I am curious: What do you do for the poor and in what life style do you live ?

      January 4, 2014 at 6:34 pm |
      • Dandintac

        If this is true, it's highly commendable. Probably further evidence of types like Rush Limbaugh that the Pope is a flaming Marxist though. Was this true of Pope Benedict? Or any others that we know for certain? I know it's not typical. Popes have typically lived in luxury over the centuries–often on the sale of indulgences. Do you know if this current pope has lived in such austerity throughout his life?

        As a side note–austerity is no guarantee of a person's goodness. Torquemada was said to be very austere also–more so than Francis. It is claimed that Torquemada slept on a plain hard bunk with a single blanket. But he also convinced Ferdinand and Isabella that the Jews were undermining Roman Catholicism as well as the sovereigns, and launched the Spanish Inquisition with the Pope's blessing. Scholars estimate 2000 people died, but the Inquisition touched the lives of nearly everyone in Spain–nearly everyone lived in fear of being branded a heretic.

        January 4, 2014 at 9:18 pm |
        • Maty

          Austerity can be indicative of a less hypocritical worldview regarding the material, but is silent on cruelty, as you say. But comparing this Pope Francis to Torquemada is disingenuous at best.

          January 5, 2014 at 11:25 pm |
  10. David

    Reality #2, then where are we from? Who made us? Please answer the questions with facts and please do not use textbooks to find the answrrs since you rejected the bible as it is.

    January 4, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
    • Trez

      My mother and father made me....were you hatched?

      January 4, 2014 at 5:33 pm |
      • David

        Where your parents come from?

        January 5, 2014 at 2:28 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      fact one - we are from earth
      fact two - no one made us, we evolved from lower species

      if you want more specif answers, ask more specific questions.

      January 4, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
      • Bill Quigley

        If we evolve from lower species then why are there still lower species?

        January 4, 2014 at 7:08 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          It is called the slow growing tree of evolution. It has not stopped growing and our branch could die out tomorrow along with most other branches. Give some examples. See below:

          What we do know: (from the fields of astrophysics, biology, biochemistry, archeology, nuclear physics, geology and the history of religion)

          1. The Sun will burn out in 3-5 billion years so we have a time frame.

          2. Asteroids continue to circle us in the nearby asteroid belt.

          3. One wayward rock and it is all over in a blast of permanent winter.

          4. There are enough nuclear weapons to do the same job.

          5. Most contemporary NT exegetes do not believe in the Second Coming so apparently there is no concern about JC coming back on an asteroid or cloud of raptors/rapture.

          6. All stars will eventually extinguish as there is a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the universe. When this happens (100 trillion years?), the universe will go dark. If it does not collapse and recycle, the universe will end.

          7. Super, dormant volcanoes off the coast of Africa and under Yellowstone Park could explode cataclysmically at any time ending life on Earth.

          8. Many of us are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan.

          Bottom line: our apocalypse will start between now and 3-5 billion CE. The universe apocalypse, 100 trillion years?

           http://www.universetoday.com/18847/life-of-the-sun/



          Search for Paul, book by Professor JD Crossan

          Rabbi Paul, book by Professor Bruce Chilton



          January 5, 2014 at 1:01 am |
        • Reality # 2

          The Time Line of Human Evolution

          name Millions of

          Cells with a nucleus 2,100
          Animals 590
          Vertebrates and closely related
          invertebrates 530

          Vertebrates 505
          Tetrapods 395
          Amniotes, 340
          Mammals 220
          Mammals that birth live young
          (i.e. non-egg-laying)
          Placental mammals (i.e. non-marsupials) 125
          Supraprimates, bats, whales, most
          hoofed mammals
          , and most carnivorous mammals
          Supraprimates (primates, rodents, rabbits,
          tree shrews,
          and colugos) 100
          Primates, colugos and tree shrews
          Primates and colugos
          Primates 75
          "Dry-nosed" (literally, "simple-nosed")
          (apes, monkeys, and tarsiers)
          "Higher" primates (or Simians)
          (apes, old-world monkeys, and
          new-world monkeys)
          "Downward-nosed" primates (apes and
          old-world monkeys) 30
          A-pes 28
          Great a-pes (
          Humans, chimpanzees, bonobos,
          gorillas, and orangutans) 15
          Humans, chimpanzees, bonobos,
          and gorillas 8
          Genera H-omo and Australopithecus 5.8
          Contains only the Genus H-omo 2.5
          Humans 2.5
          Modern humans 0.5
          Fully anatomically modern humans 0.2

          January 5, 2014 at 1:08 am |
        • Reality # 2

          o More details from National Geographic's Genographic project: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

          "Our spe-cies is an African one: Africa is where we first ev-olved, and where we have spent the majority of our time on Earth. The earliest fos-sils of recognizably modern Ho-mo sapiens appear in the fossil record at Omo Kibish in Ethiopia, around 200,000 years ago. Although earlier fossils may be found over the coming years, this is our best understanding of when and approximately where we originated.

          According to the genetic and paleontological record, we only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago. What set this in motion is uncertain, but we think it has something to do with major climatic shifts that were happening around that time—a sudden cooling in the Earth’s climate driven by the onset of one of the worst parts of the last Ice Age. This cold snap would have made life difficult for our African ancestors, and the genetic evidence points to a sharp reduction in population size around this time. In fact, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. We were holding on by a thread.

          Once the climate started to improve, after 70,000 years ago, we came back from this near-extinction event. The population expanded, and some intrepid explorers ventured beyond Africa. The earliest people to colonize the Eurasian landma-ss likely did so across the Bab-al-Mandab Strait separating present-day Yemen from Djibouti. These early beachcombers expanded rapidly along the coast to India, and reached Southeast Asia and Australia by 50,000 years ago. The first great foray of our species beyond Africa had led us all the way across the globe."

          January 5, 2014 at 1:10 am |
        • non-fiction 12.76209

          i get the sense that fiction47 has a yearning to be heard. keep learning, babe. u r making progress

          January 5, 2014 at 10:46 am |
    • JanuHull

      The iron in my blood once murdered a star that I might be here tonight. The oxygen in my lungs, the carbon of my physical make up, and the trace nutrients that fuel the fires of my neurons was forged in the heart of that star over the course of billions of years. You Christians think your threats of Hell mean anything to a being who knows every molecule of his existence was forged in flames hotter than your barbaric mind can comprehend?

      January 4, 2014 at 8:47 pm |
      • anon

        Agree 100%! How long before all of us shakes off the heavy coat of ignorance!

        January 4, 2014 at 11:21 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Amen to that. We are indeed the dust of the stars!!!

        January 5, 2014 at 8:28 am |
    • x1plus1x

      Just because our current set of knowledge doesn't contain all of the answers to every question, doesn't mean that you can fill in the blanks with whatever magic-man nonsense that you want to.

      Saying "I don't know" is much more honorable thank making up a story, pretending like you really know.

      January 8, 2014 at 9:35 am |
  11. Ctrygrl

    Wow, this Pope just keeps getting better and better, what a reply to Limbaugh. His statement on the infamous "tinkle down" (if anyone remembers Archie Bunker) "voodoo" (if anyone remembers Bush the first) economics is nothing more than a statement of observed fact, it doesn't work never has never will except of course for the rich. Find the new book comparing economic growth under 40 years of republican presidents compared to the 40 years under democratic presidents. The last 80 years were evenly split. We have done so much better under democrats it isn't even funny.

    January 4, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
    • Science Works

      Rush has a voo-doo quote too.

      Winter Does Not Disprove Global Warming

      One more reason not to listen to Donald Trump.


      And the pope suppose to have/teach morals ?

      Diocese of St. Cloud Releases List of Accused Clergy

      And 21 are dead so it must be going on for awhile ?


      January 4, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
    • jd

      their all the same.the sungod people love their things so much they argue with their pope.that is the nature of man,money is their true god and this story-convo is the proof

      January 13, 2014 at 8:37 am |
  12. Bootyfunk

    the pope is a rich catholic

    he lives in a palace called the Vatican
    he never has to prepare his own meals
    he never has to clean his own chambers
    he has countless servants
    he wears hand-made robes
    he flies all over the world by private jet

    seems like the pope should be kinda mad at himself...

    January 4, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
    • Maty


      January 5, 2014 at 11:29 pm |
  13. 00 00

    pharisees enjoy losing. to date, they have failed to proffer a single legitimate, scientifically verifiable defense for their theories and speculations.

    January 4, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
  14. Reality # 2

    Francis, Francis, Francis,

    All of your PR will not change the following:

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.


    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Too many pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology, the Easter con and original sin!!!!

    January 4, 2014 at 7:55 am |
    • David

      In the case of pedophilia priests, the rate is less than 1%. The word " too many" is literally not true.
      If you are what you called yourself

      January 4, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
      • David

        Reality #2 and believe that Jesus is a fluke, then let me ask you this, what make the earth in perfect condition, with the planet tilts at 23 degree and its exactly the right distance from the sun that makes life possible? How about this: are we a chicken or an egg? What or who made us as it is? Now, see if you can come up with the right answer to these questions and please, do not use textbooks to find the answer since you refused to accept the bible as is.

        January 4, 2014 at 5:05 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          o Think infinity and recycling with the Big Bang expansion followed by the shrinking reversal called the Gib Gnab and recycling back to the Big Bang repeating the process on and on forever. Human life and Earth are simply a minute part of this cha-otic, sto-cha-stic, expanding, shrinking process disappearing in five billion years with the burn out of the Sun and maybe returning in another five billion years with different life forms but still subject to the va-ga-ries of its local star.

          January 5, 2014 at 1:14 am |
  15. 00 00

    fiction pharisee 47, feel free to post your opinions.

    January 4, 2014 at 7:50 am |
    • cross eyed mary

      Okay I will.

      January 4, 2014 at 10:26 am |
  16. cross eyed mary

    The heavens shout out god is!

    January 3, 2014 at 9:31 pm |
    • cross eyed mary

      ONLY FOOLS deny his existence

      January 3, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
  17. cross eyed mary

    I can't get over myself

    January 3, 2014 at 7:53 pm |
    • ?

      We have.

      January 3, 2014 at 8:09 pm |
  18. cross eyed mary

    Well well well. Pharisees admit god exists. Bout time.

    January 3, 2014 at 7:28 pm |
    • ?

      You're freaking strange.

      January 3, 2014 at 7:54 pm |
      • yyyyy

        I agree

        January 4, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.