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January 7th, 2014
10:00 AM ET
Satanists unveil design for OK statehouse statueBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Satanists have unveiled their design for a proposed statue at the Oklahoma state Capitol, including a place for people to sit on the devil's lap "for inspiration and contemplation." The New York-based Satanic Temple submitted its proposal to Oklahoma officials this month after applying for a spot on Capitol grounds late last year. The Satanists say their statue would "complement and contrast" with a Ten Commandments monument placed at the Capitol in Oklahoma City in 2012. The Satanists' proposed monument depicts Baphomet, a goat-headed pagan idol sitting on a 7-foot-tall throne inscribed with an inverted pentagram. In an artist's rendering provided by the Satanic Temple, smiling children look adoringly at the devilish figure. "The statue will serve as a beacon calling for compassion and empathy among all living creatures," Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Satanic Temple, said in a prepared statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation.” According to its Indiegogo page, the Satanists have raised more than $16,000 toward their goal of $20,000 for the monument, which Greaves said would "be a historical marker commemorating the scapegoats, the marginalized, the demonized minority and the unjustly outcast.” The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, according to Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves. READ MORE: Satanists want statue next to Ten Commandments The proposed statue includes quotations from poets Lord Byron and William Blake. “Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion” runs the Blake quotation. The 18th-century poet was a Christian, albeit one with a mystical bent and little use for traditional morality. The statue's main figure, Baphomet, has long been associated with Satan, Greaves said. In the 12th century, the Knights Templar, a group of Christian crusaders, were accused of worshiping Baphomet in their secretive rituals. "From the mythology created by these accusations against the Templars, we now have a symbol for Satan pictured as a goat-headed beast," Greaves said. Since the 1960s, a variation of the horned goat head has been the official symbol of the Church of Satan, which is not affiliated with the Temple of Satan. The head of the Church of Satan has told CNN he does not approve of the idea of a Satanist statue on public grounds. Oklahoma state Rep. Paul Wesselhoft told CNN that he doesn't think the Satanists' statue will be approved. “What will disqualify them has really nothing to do with Satan as such; it's that it has no historical significance for the state of Oklahoma,” he said. Trait Thompson, chairman of Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Committee, said he has not received the Satanists' proposed design yet. He also said that no applications will be considered until a lawsuit over the Ten Commandments monument is settled. The American Civil Liberties Union has sued over Oklahoma's Ten Commandments monument, calling it an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. After news broke of the Satanists' proposal, the state was flooded with requests from religious groups seeking to erect monuments to their own faith, including Hindus and Pastafarians, a satirical religion that "worships" the Flying Spaghetti Monster. An Oklahoma lawmaker told CNN that the Satanists' message wouldn't fly in the Bible Belt state, where nearly two-thirds of the population is Christian. "Any monument displayed on state property should reflect the values of Oklahoma or memorialize those who built or defended our freedom," Rep. Bob Cleveland said Tuesday. "In my opinion, this Satanist monument does not meet with the values of Oklahomans." soundoff (3,489 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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1) as a Christian, I'm not a fan of the whole "put the 10 Commandments up"
a) the sentiment is normally defiance and/or anger
b) why the 10 Commandments instead of the cross? seriously, which do we consider a better summation of our faith (especially our view of the law)?
2) on an admittedly shallow note...
from a purely aesthetic standpoint, that's not a very appealing statue. i know they're just out to make a point, but wow. who wants bad art in their front yard? put aside the entire substance of the debate... imagine that statue in front of the Capitol building. at least the 10 Commandments (which has all the artistic value of a funeral headstone) isn't a glaring eyesore.
you are just not seeing how offensive it is to put a religious monument on government property.
@ Alias:
1) it's as offensive as the secularist wanting to re-narrate American history to exclude all references to God.
2) I was not advocating putting up a cross. I was making the point that the 10 Commandments was not a full summation of the Christian view of God's law.
Ah – this answers my next question. But could it have been that the folks who put up the ten commandments really wanted to represent Judeo-Christians?
Russ
"1) it's as offensive as the secularist wanting to re-narrate American history to exclude all references to God."
What exactly are you talking about?
You mean where the Christians hijacked the Pleadge of allegience?
or where the Christians hijacked the national motto?
or where the christians passed all the unconst!tutional Blue laws?
Where the Christians passed laws restricting the rights of atheists?
You mean re-writing what the Christians have already re-written?
@ Doris: yes – but considering it's Oklahoma, I doubt that was the sentiment.
@ igaftr: even Jefferson as a Deist embraced these things. it's written into the founding doc.uments.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
again, i'm not advocating *for* the Ten Commandments placement here, but the reciprocal indictment remains: if it's not re-narration of American history, why try to remove ALL references to God?
@Russ:
I hope they don't remove all references to gods.
My grandchildren should not be deprived of a good laugh when they study history.
Russ
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Notice that he DID NOT say "God", but a GENERIC version which shows his understanding that people have many different ideas of the source of our universe.
Thomas Jefferson DID NOT believe in the same God you do.
You're kidding, right?
You do know that 'Under God' was added to the Pledge in 1954, don't you? And that the motto 'In God We Trust' replaced the 1782 'E Pluribus Unum' in 1956?
Stop spouting lies and hate for secularism–it's what the f%$#ing country was FOUNDED ON. PERIOD.
I am quite sure our founding fathers were not offended when they founded the United States. They all had a common interest which was the love of God. The 10 commandments are what our country was founded on. It is only people like you with your arrogance and defiance that makes this issue worse than it is. What about the 10 commandments offend you? Thou shall not kill...what is harmful about this statement. Afterall, if you kill someone in the United States, you will go to jail if caught. But you will never escape the wrath of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If you need prayer or would like to talk, feel free to respond. I love you brother/sister.
Spot on. Just like Thomas Jefferson said:
"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians" .-Thomas Jefferson
Did their descendants burn so-called witches out of love and charity?
Sorry to labor the point, but I hadn't finished reading your post when I posted the above.
Believer,do you not consider burning 'witches' killing? Our founding fathers, or their descendants didn't think so.
Usually, it's "belabor the point," or sometimes "belabour the point."
Don't mean to be a d!ck, here, but I'd want to know, so...
God loves us sooo much. And, if you don't believe that without any evidence then he will send you to hell to burn forever and ever. Can't you just feel the love.
The cross? That's ridiculous, Russ. And you should know that one person's bad art is another's masterpiece.
@ Doris:
1) beauty as the eye of the beholder is a modern innovation in art.
it begs the underlying philosophical debate (who defines beauty, etc.).
2) you said: "one person's bad art is another's masterpiece."
fine. so why insist on hanging your "masterpiece" in another's home (especially who is voicing the opposite sentiment)?
Because he started it. What's good for the goose...
It's a f$%#ing statehouse. It's not YOUR home–it's a public building. A#$hole.
russ
"at least the 10 Commandments (which has all the artistic value of a funeral headstone) isn't a glaring eyesore."
It is to me...It is a reminder to me that I live in a country where people belief in ridiculous myths, and I find it EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE on government property.
The 10 commandment ARE an glaring eyesore...to me and mmany others.
@ igaftr: so your answer is to add *more* eyesores?
again, as i said at the outset, I'm not promoting the placement of the 10 Commandments here.
"so your answer is to add *more* eyesores?"
YES!
Until theists get the point that public property belongs to ALL of us.
@ Chikkipop: so you would purposefully ruin the property that belongs to *all* of us just to prove that it belongs to *all* of us?
you... individually/small group... ruining what is everybody's...
how is that not doing the very thing you are saying shouldn't be done here?
pot, meet kettle.
@Russ
Well ... reminding the religionists that their icons are not welcome on common property hasn't worked ... so they're just trying a new method to make them see the error of their ways.
Your position seems to be: The 10 C's are there .. I know they offend some, but lets just leave them there, and let's not change the status quo.
@ aldewacs:
1) you can't have it both ways. above you mock American history by saying you want to leave references to God (so your kids can laugh at it) but here you want to remove it. which is it?
2) note well: i've already said this, but you seem to have missed it. i'm NOT a proponent of the 10 Commandments monument.
The point the group is trying to make is that if you have government giving license to one religion, it has to for provide it to all comers .. I'm fairly certain the satanist group would be just as happy to not have _any_ religious display on government grounds.
Exactly! It's all or none.
I don't recall any Pastafarians molesting little boys. Hail to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
10 Commands = Jewish
Satan = Jewish
I know this won't happen, but it would add to the conversation if posters would consider that the origianl Satanic church predates christianity.
The catholics and hollywood have made everyone think satan and his followers are anti-jesus. This is not true. I know the group pushing for this monument is a bunch or rebellious jerks, but that does not define the entire religion any more than te WBC represents christianity.
If the christians get a monument on government property, then everyone else should get one too.
Yes, satan occurs in the Old Testament. My favourite is when he and god wrangle over the goodness of one man named job.
What do you mean????
I mean that god is as willing as satan to ruin a man's life for his godliness and goodness. There was no happy ending – yes, job got a new wife, but his original family? The old testament god is as amoral as the greek ones.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ&w=640&h=360]
God is all good and all powerful. Why doesn't he just destroy the Devil? Then we wouldn't have to put up with all the evil in the world. Like millions of innocent babies dying every year of disease and starvation. Makes no sense.
Actually, as long as the 10 commondments are still up, they have a right to have a representation of their religion as any other. I love the fact that they raised most of the money already.
Both the Ten Commandments and Satan are from the Jewish religion... like this here...
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rcOVJBMYQ&w=640&h=360]
Is this the same Oklahoma as rendered in this tuneful melody:
OOOOk-lahoma, where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain,
And the wavin' wheat can sure smell sweet, When the wind comes right behind the rain
OOOOk-lahoma, Ev'ry night my honey lamb and I, Sit alone and talk and watch a hawk makin' lazy circles in the sky.
It would be easier to take these people seriously if they took themselves seriously. But they don't and are easily dismissed.
It is a group from New York trying to put a statue in Oklahoma?
Yeah, what's next? Will they try to bring salsa to New Mexico? Salsa made in NEW YORK CITY?
There's probably no chance you'll see this comment, but fantastic comment and reference!
Thanks, glad someone got it!
Good laugh, doobzzz.
death buy aids is my goal
I don't think that the statue of satan would last very long. Does anyone?
Depends on what it is made of.
I could design a steel monument that would last a long time.
Because Christians will destroy it? How Christ like.
To be fair, it is very christian to attack other religions.
Read the old testament some time.
Oh I know. But Jesus was supposed to change all that, make them peaceful and without sin.
You know sin like destroying another's property because you disagree with it.
econ
Where does it say that destroying someone elses property is a sin?
Coveting sure, but not destroying.
WHo could really say with all of the contradictions in the bible....thou shall not kill (or murder)..unless it is a "witch" then thou shall not suffer a witch to live, so I guess murder is ok...see...silly book.
@Econ301
Uh, Jesus destroyed other people's property that he didn't agree with, so I don't think you know your holy book as well as you claim. "You've turned my Father's house into a den of thieves" ring any bells?
The Old Testament? You mean the book that wasnt good enough for the Christians so they had to make a new bible called the New Testament.
I thought his fathers house was his property.
Or are Churches not houses of god.
I pretty sure that fig tree he destroyed wasn't his.
All men are born of a woman...
Satanism is just a cult of Judaism.
Jews invented Satan...
The real question is who will notice it?
God will smite them!!!!!! haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
.. which one?
The ultimate troll. Nice jorb.
It's kind of tall an narrow, but if they make the miniatures of it small enough, they can still make decent snow globe gifts.
Christians believe the bible is the very word of their god, until there is a line that doesn't agree with their lifestyle and they ignore it. How do they cope with the blatant hypocrisy of ignoring the word of god? They use denial.
Christians in America love the consti.tution and all the freedoms it affords them like freedom of religion, until there is another religion that wants equality and they fight it. How do they cope with the hypocrisy? They use denial.
Dd
If there is a god and satan....which one REALLY inspired the bible....think about it. The whole thing is clearly flawed, with many many flaws in it....no two people interpret it the same way...the result of the belief in it has been violence, wars, slowing of technical advances, friction and strife.
Does that soeund like it was inspired by a "loving god" or satan , who thrives on chaos, death and destruction?
To the contrary, Satan is the Hero of the bible. The cruel petty Yahweh created ignorant puppet people for his own amusement. Satan gave them the most precious gift of knowledge. Yahweh was displeased that he had lost his puppets and cast them out.
That certainly is one interpretation....adds to the point that Satan inspired the whole thing and has been laughing at the puppet believers for two millenia.
The serpent lied to Adam and Eve about who they were and who God was and like all the most dangerous lies, these lies the serpent told were just close enough to the truth to be really destructive.
The real damage to the relationship between Adam and Eve and God wasn’t the rule breaking nearly as much as it was in allowing themselves to believe lies about themselves and God.
Neither snakes, nor donkeys nor flaming foliage are capable of speech.
The Garden of Eden story is a parable, not meant to be taken literally.
The moral of the story is that ignorance is bliss.
So long as one is obsequiously obeying someone else's mandates, life is simple, free of worry and free of any responsibility – but when you make the choice to start questioning things on your own – well, with self-awareness comes self-responsibility.
Didn't god supposedly create this serpent? and satan?.... dance the deluded dance!
"The moral of the story is that ignorance is bliss."
That’s not how parables are. They aren’t to be studied and interpreted so much as to be experienced. We don’t figure them out; they figure us out.
A parable is like a living thing—a growing organism of meaning. Yeah, you can dissect it to try to understand it. But to do so is to kill it.
.... and the "story" is pure mythology.
oregon
But Adam and eve were supposedly innocent and did not know right from wrong, so when they ate from the apple, they COULD not know it was a bad thing, even if god told them...they had no knowledge of right and wrong until AFTER taking a bite....and the evil god holds it against them, even though they could not know that it was was wrong (not having a concept of wrong)...further evidence that SATAN inspired the bible...showing god to be a vindictive god...all through the bible, that point is made, over and over....certainly LOOKS like Satan inspired the whole thing.
Seriously...striped goats by having goats stare at striped objects...hilarious....and certainly not the work of any god...god would knkow better.
Adam and Eve listened to a voice other than God’s and believed a voice other than God’s – and disobeyed.
They felt shame and fear. And that shame and fear has an origin. It is from the serpent, not God.
Adam and Eve couldn't say the truth and instead they hid and were fearful and tried to rationalize and to justify and to blame the serpent… It was like they robbed God of being the forgiving and redemptive God God wants to be for us.
@Oregon
You really need to open your mind and consider that other religions have different beliefs.
Satanist do not believe Satan is evil.
Serpents can not speak... so your story is flawed right from the git-go...
Oregon, did god create the serpent? yes or no.
Alias
There is no mention of Satan in the Adam and Eve story. I am open-minded enough to know that some people don't think Satan is evil. Some people don't think child abuse is evil, also. It doesn't make it right.
oregon
Here's the key "and disobeyed."
They could NOT KNOW that disobeying was bad until AFTER they ate the apple. They should not be punished for something they had NO WAY of comprehending was a bad thing...they had no concept of "bad" at all....how do you disobey when you do not understand the consequences of your actions...
Silly story, and clearly DID NOT HAPPEN, unless god is evil and vindictive.
Genesis tell us that God made us and indeed all of creation “good”, not perfect, but good. So given the good-but-not-perfect nature of humanity, maybe messing up and then speaking the truth of it and then allowing God to forgive and make whole that which we have broken has just always been part of the deal. If there was a fall (the story mentions no fall), if there was something which tore at the fabric of our relationship with God maybe it wasn’t eating the forbidden fruit (disobedience), maybe it the was fear and shame, and untruth.
Answer my question..... did god create the serpent???
Colossians 1:16 (ESV)
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
oregon
Most likely , it is just a story from a book, that clearly has many flaws. created by men, edited interpretted by men...a product of mens imaginations...nothing more.
You can learn a great deal more about human nature, by studying the other animals we share the planet with.
The story of the Garden of Eden is what is called an origin story and every culture has theirs. Origin stories tell us how the world came about and where we came from and other important things like why snakes don’t have legs. 🙂
I know a lot about biology and animals, too. The Bible is an important book. In my English class we were required to read it because it inspired so much European and American literature. It contains wise sayings, parables, history, poetry, songs, testimonies and much more.
"Origin stories tell us how the world came about and where we came from and other important things like why snakes don’t have legs"
No...they say one of an infinite number of possibilities of how and where things started...most likely NOT the real story.
Nobody knows how the world came to be. And this story is not meant to be a scientific explanation. This origin story reveals a truth about the relationship between the creature and their Creator.
"This origin story reveals a truth "
No...it does not, unless there is a creator as described in the book, which most likely is not the case at all, considering the huge flaws in the rest of the story.
You should not use the word "truth" when talking about the bible, since you do not know it is true.
It reveals truths to me. The Bible is not perfect. It is not God. I don't worship The Bible.
""I believe that only monuments that reflect Oklahoma values should be allowed on the capitol grounds," state Rep. Bob Cleveland told CNN in December."
In other words, we will promote and endorse MY religion and squash all others free speech to protect MY beliefs....it's the way we roll in OK.
Hmmm... 'Oklahoma values' – I thought it was white, redneck (cowboy), christian... no others need apply...
They're tied with Arkansas for the state with the most nutbar evangelical Christians.
What can you expect from the home of Oral Roberts University....
“What will disqualify them has really nothing to do with Satan as such; it's that it has no historical significance for the state of Oklahoma,” Wesselhoft said.
And a monument about the 10 Commandments has historical significance? Lots of Okies at the foot of Mount Sinai I take it?
2012 – OK Jewish population 4,650
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html
As of 2007, there are more Muslims than Jews in OK.
Maybe they should build a statue of Mohammad.
I'd pay to watch what happens then... 😉
(source: Association of Religion Data Archives)
Satanists are just as fulla bulla as Gawdders – but they are more fun at parties.
Uncle Mammon?
Judaic Bolshevist Mammonism (Baphomet) = Mahomet (Muslim Brotherhood)
Two metrosxual devills from desert cult religions...
That's a mighty good statue of me... the little girl statue raising her hands in supplication is a nice touch
It looks to me as if she is demonstrating the size of .... something
Then she is a chronic under-estimator [snicker]
I can't wait for all the viral pictures of guys in raincoats sitting sideways on Satan's lap!
That statue is inspirational!... LOL
Lucifer is a Roman god.
Satan is a Jewish god.
That's kind of brilliant.
better spray the statue with scotch guard for ease of cleaning! LOLOL Oklahoma Christians will deface it at every available opportunity.
I guess this statue appeals to your sense of morality?
You mean like your morality regarding gays?
Did Jesus not preach to love your neighbors, and not judge them as God is the Judge?
IF you believe in what you say you believe in, you shouldn't judge people who disagree with you. You should believe what you believe and let them believe what they want and let God short it out.
If your neighbor is about to committ suicide, is it love to not help him?
Satan is a product of your religion, so those morals would be related to each other.
Satan is a product of the Jewish religion... it is a Hebrew invention...
As I've said before, build a church called Church of Christ and nobody bats an eye. Build a church called Church of Satan and there'll be protests and arson attempts.
Lol... too awesome for words.