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January 7th, 2014
10:00 AM ET
Satanists unveil design for OK statehouse statueBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Satanists have unveiled their design for a proposed statue at the Oklahoma state Capitol, including a place for people to sit on the devil's lap "for inspiration and contemplation." The New York-based Satanic Temple submitted its proposal to Oklahoma officials this month after applying for a spot on Capitol grounds late last year. The Satanists say their statue would "complement and contrast" with a Ten Commandments monument placed at the Capitol in Oklahoma City in 2012. The Satanists' proposed monument depicts Baphomet, a goat-headed pagan idol sitting on a 7-foot-tall throne inscribed with an inverted pentagram. In an artist's rendering provided by the Satanic Temple, smiling children look adoringly at the devilish figure. "The statue will serve as a beacon calling for compassion and empathy among all living creatures," Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the Satanic Temple, said in a prepared statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation.” According to its Indiegogo page, the Satanists have raised more than $16,000 toward their goal of $20,000 for the monument, which Greaves said would "be a historical marker commemorating the scapegoats, the marginalized, the demonized minority and the unjustly outcast.” The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, according to Greaves. They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves. READ MORE: Satanists want statue next to Ten Commandments The proposed statue includes quotations from poets Lord Byron and William Blake. “Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion” runs the Blake quotation. The 18th-century poet was a Christian, albeit one with a mystical bent and little use for traditional morality. The statue's main figure, Baphomet, has long been associated with Satan, Greaves said. In the 12th century, the Knights Templar, a group of Christian crusaders, were accused of worshiping Baphomet in their secretive rituals. "From the mythology created by these accusations against the Templars, we now have a symbol for Satan pictured as a goat-headed beast," Greaves said. Since the 1960s, a variation of the horned goat head has been the official symbol of the Church of Satan, which is not affiliated with the Temple of Satan. The head of the Church of Satan has told CNN he does not approve of the idea of a Satanist statue on public grounds. Oklahoma state Rep. Paul Wesselhoft told CNN that he doesn't think the Satanists' statue will be approved. “What will disqualify them has really nothing to do with Satan as such; it's that it has no historical significance for the state of Oklahoma,” he said. Trait Thompson, chairman of Oklahoma's Capitol Preservation Committee, said he has not received the Satanists' proposed design yet. He also said that no applications will be considered until a lawsuit over the Ten Commandments monument is settled. The American Civil Liberties Union has sued over Oklahoma's Ten Commandments monument, calling it an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. After news broke of the Satanists' proposal, the state was flooded with requests from religious groups seeking to erect monuments to their own faith, including Hindus and Pastafarians, a satirical religion that "worships" the Flying Spaghetti Monster. An Oklahoma lawmaker told CNN that the Satanists' message wouldn't fly in the Bible Belt state, where nearly two-thirds of the population is Christian. "Any monument displayed on state property should reflect the values of Oklahoma or memorialize those who built or defended our freedom," Rep. Bob Cleveland said Tuesday. "In my opinion, this Satanist monument does not meet with the values of Oklahomans." soundoff (3,489 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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They cant even hold a debatable arguement on scientific facts or logical thinking these atheists. Than they claim they believe in evolution not even knowing or being able to explain how evolution works
So how long have you been trolling?
probably about the same time you have? more or less
But I'm not trolling.
Seems like a rookie to me.
Looks like it's time for another installment of:
Doc Vestibule's Primer in Evolution
There are 5 laws in the Theory of Evolution.
1) Evolution as such.
This is the understanding that the world is not constant, nor recently created, nor cycling, but is changing; and that the types of enti.ties that live on it also change.
2) Common descent
This is the understanding that every group of living enti.ties that we know of on this planet descended from a common ancestor.
3) Multiplication of species
This is the understanding that species either split into or bud off other species, often through the geographical isolation of a founder species.
4) Gradualism
This is the understanding that changes take place through the gradual change of population rather than the sudden production of new individuals.
5) Natural selection
This is the understanding that individuals in every generation are different from one another, or, at least some of them are. In every generation some individuals survive and reproduce better than others. Their genes multiply.
Your laws dont seem to have an explanation as to how or when everything originates from. Surely there's a beginning to where everything evloves from no?
Your statement was about evolution, not abiogenesis.
all related – so explain Doc.
Scientists are working on it. That's what is great about science. It doesn't throw up its hands and say "This is too hard, must be God." Besides, if you want origins explained, you have quite the challenge to explain the origin of God.
Not related. The theory of evolution describes the development of life, not its origins.
But anyways – there are a number of hypotheses regarding abiogenesis as well as some theories that are gaining ground.
The seeds of terrestrial life may have come from space.
Ja.panese scientists sealed up Bacillus subtilis spores and other various organisms in a vacuum chamber and simulated the conditions of space exposure over a period of 250 years. In the end. half the sample survived.
So maybe the Star Trek "founder" theory is correct!
J. Craig Venter, the geneticist who decoded the human genome, has been absorbed in the study of virii for a number of years. He has discovered millions of new viruses – but perhaps the most interesting is the Mimi virus which mimics certain bacterial life. Mimivirus is so much more genetically complex than all previously known viruses, not to mention a number of bacteria, that it throwing our whole conception of the branching "tree of life" into disarray.
It has proven that some viruses have an ancestor that was much more complex than they are now. The Mimi virus is at least as old as the other branches of life, which strongly suggests that viruses were involved very early on in the evolutionary emergence of life.
It is a kind of "missing link" in the study of life's emergence, demonstrating how nucleated cells first appeared.
In the mid 20th century, Dr. Sidney Fox synthesized amino acids, the basic building blocks of organic life, from inorganic compounds and thermal energy. What he made have been dubbed "protobionts". Protobionts exhibit some of the properties associated with life, including simple reproduction, metabolism, and excitability, as well as the maintenance of an internal chemical environment different from that of their surroundings.
There are additional ideas being explored, but I fear I've already overfed the troll.
As we discover more and more about the natural processes involved in the development of biological life, the less feasible the Creator god hyopthesis becomes – not the least of which is the anthropocentric Abrahamic God.
You can't use proper grammar.
@Mein,
Atheism is not Science and Science is not Atheism.
>"they claim they believe in evolution not even knowing or being able to explain how evolution works"
Everyone in the world seems quite satisfied with the FACTS of evolution. Perhaps you religious CRIMINALS are immune to logic, reason and things like peer review.
Maybe you could get your magical jewish wizard, Yahweh, to explain it to you. LOL.
Oh wait, I almost forgot, your invisible skydaddy god, YHWH, doesn't exist! WHY? BECAUSE MAGIC ISN'T REAL!!!
LOLOLOL
Not for long!!! Some good ole boys will take sledgehammers to it. The state will have to hire 24/7 security, too bad Satan can't protect himself! HA!!
So basically, those good old boys can't stand the Constitution and commit illegal acts in order to subvert it. Perhaps they should move to a nice theocracy where they can hang out with like-minded individuals - say Iraq, or Saudi Arabia.
Satan works in mysterious ways. He would allow those good ol' boys to desecrate his statue but punish them in some other mysterious ways. You can't prove it's not true.
I'm a Seventh Dwarf Adventist; I want a statue of Snow White!
I'm naturalist. I want that to be a nude statue.
I'm an incurable optimist. I want a statue of Horatio Alger. Gold would be nice.
Well maybe all this banter on some group wanting to mount a statue on state grounds will cause some people to actually open up a bible to read the great 10 Commandments so they know what they state!! Kudos to that!
The important ones are mainly common sense.
>"The important ones are mainly common sense."
Of course! Who could ever forget something like...
"Thou shall not seethe a kid in its mother's milk"
Still very disappointed that they did not go with a design that shoots flames and plays death metal.
Best. Comment. Ever.
A shrine to Dethklok?
These atheists have know base knowledge of science or faith to support any of their arguements. They just spew out jibberish that falls inline with their own opinion of the truth.
Typo. You put an 'a' at the beginning of 'theists'.
These Christians have no knowledge of science or logic to support any of their arguments. They just spew out gibberish that falls inline with their own opinion of delusional fantasy.
You sure you're not talking about Christianity?
Who are these atheists you're talking about???
They know the difference between 'know' and 'no', though.
Stay on topic. This article is about Satanists and Oklahoma, not atheists.
Uhhh... it's "no" btw. And you get your life from a book that was written by bronze age nomads who stole the stories from other religions, was assembled by 700 politicians by the Romans and then rebuilt by a king. Most likely you haven't even read the whole thing.
You are correct. Atheists *know* knowledge, whereas theists have no knowledge of any logical arguments.
Mein
Everytime a religious person quotes the bible I think "They just spew out jibberish that falls inline with their own opinion of the truth."
Speaking as an Atheist, I wasn't aware Atheists were also Satanists. lol
BTW, we have an overwhelming knowledge of Science AND your faith. In fact, most Atheists know the Christian Bible better than most Christians. We've read your book and laughed your delusional fantasy. Seriously, if you logically look at the Christian Bible, you will become an Atheist too.
True.
Libraries should relocate the bible to the 'humor' section.
Although some portions belong under the 'crime' header.
This is heresy; Blasphemous! Every knee will bow and confess he (Jehovah) is the Lord thy God.
I fart in Jehovah's general direction.
some people seem to believe that, though there is no legitimate reason why.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.
I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal food trough wiper.
You can't expect to wield supreme power because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
They believe Satan is a "literary construct," the spokesman said, not an actual being with horns and hooves.
But the status that they want to represent them is of a goat headed pagan. If I am not mistaking a GOAT is an animal with horns and hooves...
Ergo, Satan is not a goat.
Hmmm... Last I heard, OK was a right to work red state where things like health care and a livable minimum wage are considered unthinkable; so isn't a statue of Satan in the statehouse just giving credit where credit's due?
All of you who are knocking the 10 commandments don’t even realize that without them you wouldn't be on this or any other social website spouting out your stupid opinions! If the 10 commandments are so bad then move to a country that doesn't have them!
The Journal of Religion & Society published a study on religious belief and social well-being, comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the U.S. to New Zealand.
#1 on the list in both atheism and good behaviour is Ja.pan. It is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation. Over eighty percent of the population accept evolution.
Last on the list is the U.S. It has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Ja.pan.
Countries with a high percentage of nonbelievers are among the freest, most stable, best-educated, and healthiest nations on earth. When nations are ranked according to a human-development index, which measures such factors as life expectancy, literacy rates, and educational attainment, the five highest-ranked countries - Norway, Sweden, Australia, Canada, and the Netherlands - all have high degrees of nonbelief. Of the fifty countires at the bottom of the index, all are intensly religious. The nations with the highest homicide rates tend to be more religious; those with the greatest levels of gender equality are the least religious.
You are sooo wrong. Yes the nations with the highest degree of religion tend to be the poorest. However, once upon a time we were one of those nations. We were a nation of believers that built this country and now that we have made great progress, after God has blessed America, many feel like they don't need God in their lives. Well history will repeat it self. Check out all the other once dominant ancient societies of the past. Thanks to people like you our day is coming too!
idle threats based on mythology and your imagination.
i never really understand why people consider their hard work the blessings of some god.
I'm Canadian.
"Once upon a time", and like all fairy tales, it's time to close the book. Reaching for the past will do nothing but impede the future, thank you dark ages. Religion brings nothing but misery. God is the name and excuse for death and hatred in a civilized world run by an organization that damns you for not buying into their mental illness.
'We were a nation of believers that built this country and now that we have made great progress, after God has blessed America, many feel like they don't need God in their lives.'
I seem to recall back in the 'godly' past when slavery was the norm, or were you talking a more recent 'godly' time when jim crow was around?
dont talk to me about this supposed glorious godly past.
Jay, and the demonic cult is good? Do they save lifes? How about charitable missions to hunger stricken countries? How about praying for the sick to cause God to do miracles..just to name a few. Really now. Listen, I lost my mom at an early age, yes it hurted and I was mad and angry at God for allowing her to be gone. However, even without her God was still with me, even while I was not talking to him. So if you're mad, I understand but God still loves you and will gladly accept you back to him. And He's no fairy tale. Remember Satan is afraid of new churches, new societies where Christain faith is starting so he creates problems. If only you could open your eyes for the war is not of flesh and blood.
Cedar, Yes those were tough times but my ancestors learned how to pray, and they believed in God and the North defeated the South. Today we have a Black President. Progress!
'Cedar, Yes those were tough times but my ancestors learned how to pray, and they believed in God and the North defeated the South. Today we have a Black President. Progress!'
So Jim Crow was in the 60s during a more godly time, and we now have a black president at a time that you claim people are removing god. Interesting.
@Doc Vestibule:
If you continue to publish facts, you will be upsetting the brains of the deeply religious faith clans.
You have my support and admiration, but be aware that you may be turning some deluded souls free. No telling what they'll do after eating from the Tree of Knowledge.
The Decalogue has zero to do with the Freedom of Speech
@Jane Doe,
How does the US have them?
the First Amendment pretty much contradicts the First Commandment, doesn't it?
sorry jane, that statement is just plain stupid.
Is Jane really confusing the Ten Commandments with the Bill of Rights?!? Or is her last name Poe, not Doe?
All of you who are knocking the Grimm's Fairy Tales don’t even realize that without them you wouldn't be on this or any other imaginary world spouting out your stupid fantasies! If the delusions are so bad then move to a place that doesn't have them!
Oh, wait... that would be here, there, everywhere.
I think only 2 commandments are codified into US law. thats 20%, and that 20% isnt even unique to Abrahamic religions.
Nothing about free speech in the 10 big ones either
Thy shall not bear false witness? You tell me in the court of law this is not a law....? How about adultery? Isn't that legal grounds for divorce...? So without even looking at the 10 commandments we are now up to 40% and I'm not trying to be deep. This is what I'm talking about, most the people that follow this demonic cult, do not really know anything about GOD ALL MIGHTY, they simply do not understand his infinite wisdom either..
bearing false witness is only illegal in one specific instance.
Adultry is not illegal. Divorce is against the religion's moral code, not against the law.
or the infinite gullibility of his followers.
Adultery isn't against the law. Three out of ten at most. Go ahead, look at the rest, we will wait.
Please tell me the original comment is meant as a joke, and not that you do not understand the difference between the 10 Commandments and the Bill of Rights. Please tell me that. I'll believe you, if just to preserve what little hope I have left for humanity and common sense.
Bah, I replied to the wrong poster. Yes, it seems Jane Doe has mixed up the Bill of Rights with the Ten Commandments. Or that her last name is Poe, not Doe.
The 10 commandments have absolutely nothing to do with the freedom of speech and especially the freedom of religion (and FROM it for that matter). The 10 commandments did NOT give rise to the internet and don't forget the church's early attempts to keep people illiterate in the first place in order to maintain power over the masses and in order to keep gold in the coffers. You are indeed a special kind of stupid rivaled only by Ray Comfort. I wonder what your opinion is on modern day agriculture. Let me guess, the 10 commandments again. Something tells me that you'll just attribute the damnedest things to the 10 commandments even if you're being slapped with a phone book sized explanation of why it rains.
The U.S. does not have the 10 commandments. There are no laws in this country saying you must believe in God, or go to church, or that you are not allowed to have graven images, or that you are not allowed to covet your neighbor's things.
You have to look at the message that each statue would hold the ten commandments would hold EVEN for nonreligious people a moral code that like it or not the laws of this land are built off of. On the contrary Satan is the master of hurt, deceit, destruction,death, and immorality. Is that really what we want our country to stand by? One nation under what? Spaghetti monster??
Our laws aren't based on the Ten Commandments. Only two of the commandments (murder and stealing) are crimes, along with bearing false witness, if it's done under oath.
The first three commandment not only aren't laws, they do not in any way apply to non-christians.
Honouring your parents isn't a law.
Not coveting isn't a law.
No adultery isn't a law.
Keeping the sabbath isn't a law.
That leave mudering, lying and stealing – things that are generally considered anti-social and illegal in every civilization throughout the world in all of history.
"... that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." – T. Jefferson
Sorry, the laws of our country are not based upon the Decalogue.
Read the Ten Commandments again. Count how many are U.S. laws. The answer is two – no murder, no stealing. Three if you count bearing false witness as perjury. And I'm pretty sure we'd have laws against murder and stealing without the Ten Commandments. So basically, they are a big fail when it comes to influence on American law and providing any kind of usefulness on morality.
@ashley a.
"...the ten commandments would hold EVEN for nonreligious people a moral code..."
Incorrect. Unless you expect to nonbelievers to accept your one God and keep the Sabbath holy?
Are you that ignorant of history? How about we go back to the original pledge before it was changed in the 50s to add under God. One nation, Indivisible. These satanists are trying to make a point that if you allow one religion's monuments on government property you have to allow others as well. It would be best to just adhere to the separation of church and state and remove anything religious.
ashley
"a moral code that like it or not the laws of this land are built off of" False.
There are no laws against coveting my neighbors stuff, or adultery, or lying or belief in a god before yours.
That is just a lie. There are some laws that co-incide...but they are not unique to your commandments."
The bible itself since it was created, it has caused an incredible amount of destruction, death, murder, faster spread of disease...on and on... if ever there was an evil text, it is certainly the bible, for in its wake, it has left a long history of chaos, which is allegedly the devils playground...seems that the bible was inspired by satan and not god at all. Why would god have gotten so much of the bible wrong if he had anything to do with it?
@ash, none of what you posted is true.
I guess you've never actually bothered to read the commandments. "You shall have no god before me"? "I am the Lord, your god"? "You shall not worship graven images"? "You shall not take my name in vain"? "Remember the Sabbath"?
What were you saying, again? This has nothing to do with a well ordered society, and everything to do with theocracy and religious control.
Satan=darkness. Install a flash light and turn if off?
It's good to conserve energy. Plus, if you feed the bulb and unnatural amount of energy, you're shot for good.
"The Temple of Satan is less a religious body organized around rituals and regular meetings than a roving band of political provocateurs, according to Greaves."
It looks like this is a another round of thoughtless antics by your local atheist activists this time disguised as Satanists and always ready to mock anyone who has faith in anything. Probably it's the same people who want to take down the Mt. Soledad Cross in San Diego which has been a landmark for veterans for over 60 years.
No it IS clearly an attempt by patriotic Americans who are standing up for the separation of church and state and want to remove church from public supported property.
If you want the 10 C's put them in your house or your church. Keep them out of our government, schools and parks.
Nope, sorry Paul. Satanists are religious people like you.
Athiests are intelligent and spend their time gaining higher education degrees and becoming scientists and teachers.
You are aware that 95% of scientists and 85% of Americans with graduate degrees do not believe in either your god or your satan.
Paul: You may want to check your revisionist history of Mt Soledad and the Veteran's memorial that didn't exist until recently. The cross helped establish the area as one that did not allow Jews. That's a fine history!
Or perhaps they are making a point that if one religion gets preferential treatment and gets monuments on government property (a government that is supposedly separated from the church) than other religions need to be as well. Sorry you can't have your cake and eat it too. Religion is cyclical anyway. It's not like we've always had under god in the pledge. It's not like we've always had in god we trust on our money. These things were added over a hundred years after the signing of the declaration of independence. Why don't we just go back to adhering to the separation of church and state and take anyones religious monuments off of government property. This is a government by the people and for the people, and last I checked the people weren't entirely christian alone. In ten years most people will agree with this statement and it will happen anyway so lets just get it over with so that in another 50 years when religion (of any kind) becomes popular in the states again they can be put back up. It's ridiculous.
As times change, new monuments will be erected. However, where will this end if we let the atheist activists take over for us? Taking an extremist view on the separation of church and state regarding existing monuments on public land will eventually lead us down a similar path of cultural destruction as experienced in China during Mao’s Cultural Revolution where many items of religious and cultural significance were forever lost. It’s not like anyone is forced to look at these things. Are public lands supposed to become bland vanilla wastelands devoted to the state with huge pictures and statues of our Dear Leaders taking the place of anything with any cultural significance?
'Are public lands supposed to become bland vanilla wastelands devoted to the state with huge pictures and statues of our Dear Leaders taking the place of anything with any cultural significance?'
so you have already made up a path to communist style leader worship and condemned it just because of this challenge?
heck that is an easy game to play......so are we to just let the christians put up monuments and then ban all other religions and setup a new inquisition that will kill off all the unbelievers?
US is about 60% private and about 40% public lands. The majority of the public lands are forests/wildlife perserves.
So really, it's more about what private owners are will to do. Do you really want the government to define your culture?
".. Taking an extremist view on the separation of church and state.."
As apposed to your 'special' view that allows christian icons on government property but disallows anybody else's?
In my book, that qualifies as the most extremist view one can have about separation of church and state: "ALL religions except the one I choose have to be separated FROM our government... BY our government."
Compassion and empathy?! These satan worshippers do not know their god.
Or you don't.
And I suppose you do??
They just don't know YOUR god.
You mean the Christians don't know their "god", a god that's full of rage and jealousy.
Next time someone argues for putting up the Ten Commandments (anywhere, not just on public property), ask them why they are disobeying the commandment against graven images. Some people/groups even omit that commandment and break the 10th commandment into two to get to 10! The hypocrisy, it burns.
I'm guessing that it isn't viewed as a representation of god nor the object of worship.
a big chunk of them are about how to worshp god...how is that not about god?
I didn't say "about God". I said a representation of God.
That being said, I'm not a believer, so I can't say for certain.
I've never known anyone that worshiped or prayed to a statue.
I've never understood that whole concept. I have a statue of one of my deities on my altar. I don't think she IS a deity. She merely reminds me of a commitment I made to the deity she represents. I don't worship her. But then, neither do I worship the deity she represents, so there's that.
I doubt, even in biblical days anyone actually believed the statues were the actual gods.
"it's that it has no historical significance for the state of Oklahoma" Really? There's no history of evil in Oklahoma? Or is it just that they want to hide it? Honest government should be about truth & fairness, not about personal preferences.
Evil? So, because they believe something different from mainstream, they must be evil?
Its really simple, ok?
Take down the 10 suggestions...or Baphomet goes in...
Oklahoma needs to get this off its back because it looks stupider and stupider.
Keep your religion out of the statehouse, the schoolhouse, and the hospitals.
You hit the nail on the head. It is not about the statue, but it is about not separating church and state which is what they did when they put up the 10 Commandments statue. Take that one down, and this will all go away.
Praise the light bringer, may he illuminate all of the darkest corners of every ones souls 😉
Praise the electrician who wired the room that was dark so the light bringer could light the bulb?
praise the fusion reaction, which is the sun...for it is the giver of warmth and life
Thomas Edison?
Promethues
Maybe it is the usher with the flashlight in the movie theater.
I bet if you spraypainted "Satan Sux" on it it would burn them up!
That would be defacing public property (Graffiti Vandalism); which is a crime. Are you a criminal?
🙂
🙂
🙂
I've seen the pope use that hand signal, makes me wonder. Satan demands worship, so hoy does one get worship? If satan came up to you and said worship me, No! So in order to get worship he discussers himself in the garb of Christianity, so when you worship the pope you are in fact worshiping satan, for the bible says the the devil gave him (pope) his seat and Great authority. Don't believe me, look for yourself, youtube is the pope the antichrist.
This article wasn't about the Pope.
Try almost any other Belief Blog article though.
Oh, shove your rigorous bigotry up your nose, Glenn.
You're close Glenn – try this one on for size. It's not the pope (besides that's a position, not a person), it was Saul/Paul. The man most responsible for changing the religion OF Jesus (apocalyptical jew) into a religion ABOUT Jesus (sacrificial atonement).