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January 20th, 2014
08:24 AM ET

The greatest MLK speeches you never heard

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - Here's a pop quiz for anyone who calls the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. an American hero.

Can you name any of his great speeches or written works without citing "I Have a Dream" or the "Letter from Birmingham Jail"?

Most Americans would likely flub this quiz. King may be a national hero whose birthday the country commemorates on Monday, but to many he remains a one-dimensional hero - the vast body of his work unknown. Though he wrote five books and delivered up to 450 speeches a year, he's defined by one speech and one letter.

What then are the great works by King that never get the attention they deserve?

That's the question CNN put to some members of King's inner circle as well as top King scholars. We asked them to pick their favorite overlooked gems from King, any extraordinary spoken or written words people don't typically hear during King commemorations.

Six entries made our final cut: three sermons and speeches, King's most radical book, an astonishing letter he wrote as a college student, and a "eulogy" he delivered for a friend that revealed a side of him the public rarely saw.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity

soundoff (386 Responses)
  1. Live4Him

    @I wonder : It's turtles all the way down...

    The expression "It's turtles all the way down" refers to the infinite regress problem revealed by the 'unmoved mover' (or the 'Uncaused Causer') argument. In essense, this problem hits at the heart of the atheist's argument against the existence of God. If everything that has a beginning has a cause, and if the universe had a beginning, then there must be a 'cause' that began this universe. This 'cause' could be called God.

    <><

    January 21, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
    • JB

      Why must it be called your god?

      January 21, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
      • Pete

        Basically his argument boils down to the bible claims that god created the universe, and then something about all the fulfilled "prophecies" in the bible and so the Christian god is the only one who could have done. It is good for a laugh if you can get Live4Him to post it.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
        • JB

          Live4Him

          "You didn't answer the question."

          Neither did you, and I asked first.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • JB

          Sorry, that wound up in the wrong sub-thread.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
      • Live4Him

        @JB : Why must it be called your god?

        Why can't it be called Jehovah?

        <><

        January 21, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • JB

          Isn't that your god?

          January 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @JB : Isn't that your god?

          You didn't answer the question.

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          Even presuming a first cause you have no evidence that it is your god. The same regression logic applies to your god even though you avoid that by special pleading.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • JB

          Live4Him

          "You didn't answer the question."

          Neither did you, and I asked first.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @JB : Neither did you, and I asked first.

          And by doing so, committed a strawman argument. I never claimed that it WAS the Biblical God, but that it COULD be. You modified it, and thus should justify your posit before we can move forward (or concede the point). 🙂

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 2:10 pm |
        • JB

          I'm confused–are you saying that you don't claim it was the biblical god?

          January 21, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @JB : I'm confused–are you saying that you don't claim it was the biblical god?

          Go back to my post. Where did I advance such a claim on this thread?

          January 21, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • JB

          "This 'cause' could be called God."

          Capitalized God is the typical Christian way of spelling things. That, and your other posts led me to believe you must be referring to the Christian god. So quit dancing around the subject–do you believe it was the Christian god? (and in case you're wondering, I don't believe any god was involved).

          January 21, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
      • Why must it

        conform to ancient mythology at all?

        January 21, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
    • Mary Elephant

      What was the rest of the post in context? Taking one incomplete sentence out if context is discombobulating.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
      • Live4Him

        @Mary Elephant : What was the rest of the post in context?

        It's on page one.

        <><

        January 21, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • Mary Elephant

          Then cut and paste the exchange instead of lifting one part of one sentence...or answer it on page one.
          Why do you do this?

          January 21, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • Pete

          Once LIve4Him is backed into a corner and realizes that he is going to lose or already has lost the argument he moves to another page and hopes that nobody notices how poorly the same argument went the first time around. Pretty dishonest move if you ask me.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Mary Elephant : Then cut and paste the exchange instead of lifting one part of one sentence...or answer it on page one. Why do you do this?

          Unlike some people ... I realize it is rude to interrupt an existing conversation to insert my two cents into the conversation. So, I start a new thread to be polite.

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          that's a dodge.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Live4Him
          As many of the regulars here have pointed out to you time and time again, removing comments from their original context isn't "polite" – quite the opposite in fact.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • Pete

          This is the only page Live4Him

          January 21, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • I wonder

          Live4,
          "I realize it is rude to interrupt an existing conversation to insert my two cents into the conversation. So, I start a new thread to be polite."

          You have been advised repeatedly that posters here do NOT think that you are being polite, though, yet you insist on the rudeness of running your own stand-alone mini seminars.

          It's preposterous that a real smart god would send you as its ambassador.

          (perhaps the ad hominem accusations will roll now, but the subject right now is your behavior)

          January 21, 2014 at 2:00 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @I wonder : You have been advised repeatedly that posters here do NOT think that you are being polite

          You think that I'm foolish enough to listen to what the forum's hoi polloi call for? It would just result in an imbroglio – not something that I desire. However, why are my opponents so intolerant of others of opposing views?

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • I wonder

          Live4,

          Perhaps, if a particular thread gets too long or too complicated, you might try asking the person with whom you are interacting if they would like to have a new thread started. That would be more polite.

          Frankly, you have all the humility and finesse of that proverbial mosquito floating on his back down the river ...

          January 21, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • igaftr

          L4H
          "However, why are my opponents so intolerant of others of opposing views?"

          We aren't, when they are valid. Most of what you post is lies, and misrepresentations of scientific data. Your logic is not logic at all, and you refuse to see the flawed thinking even when it explained to you like you would explain to a three year old.

          IE... the misrepresentation of DNA analysis by bringing up dino sooft tissue. It has been explained to you countless times, yet you keep bringing it up. Just ONE of your lies.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:21 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @igaftr : We aren't, when they are valid.

          And of course, THEY determine which are valid or not! So, again, we're right back where we started. Why are they so intolerant?

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        @Mary
        Live4Him seems to enjoy nothing more than separating comments from their original threads.
        Well, that and arguing semantics as an exercise in obfuscation.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          Live4Him throws a semantic smoke bomb into the conversation whenever he doesn't have an answer to atheist logic ... which is pretty often. Either that or he dodges and runs away.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      And yet L4H will deny that the same paradox of infinite regression applies to the Creator God becuase It "exists outside of space of time".
      Who or what created the Creator? Why nothing at all if you arbitrarily assign It the label of "uncaused First Cause".
      And no, you can't say that anything else could possibly be uncaused – becuase..... well..... cuz Jesus, that's why!
      (begin humming "Onward Christian Soldiers")

      January 21, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
    • I wonder

      Yes, Live4, I'm aware of that usage of the turtle metaphor. I simply borrowed it for another tack.

      "The regress argument (also known as the diallelus (Latin < Greek di allelon "through or by means of one another")) is a problem in epistemology and, in general, a problem in any situation where a statement has to be justified.[1][2][3]

      According to this argument, any proposition requires a justification. However, any justification itself requires support. This means that any proposition whatsoever can be endlessly (infinitely) questioned, like a child who asks "why?" over and over again."

      January 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
      • Live4Him

        @I wonder : Yes, Live4, I'm aware of that usage of the turtle metaphor. I simply borrowed it for another tack.

        And opened up a can of worms 🙂

        @I wonder : any proposition requires a justification. However, any justification itself requires support. This means that any proposition whatsoever can be endlessly (infinitely) questioned

        Not exactly. When sufficient support is given, a proposition would need to be falsified prior to it being open for questioning again.

        <><

        January 21, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • I wonder

          Live4,

          It seems as if you think yourself to be wise, though, to propound that "Scriptures" (whose writers also claimed themselves to be wise) are the last turtle.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @I wonder : It seems as if you think yourself to be wise, though, to propound that "Scriptures" (whose writers also claimed themselves to be wise) are the last turtle.

          It's turtles all the way down. Isn't this what you quoted? And now you want to try to start a 'who is wiser' discussion? Sorry, but not my cup of tea.

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
    • igaftr

      again with this first cause crap...
      Apply it to your god
      What caused your god?

      January 21, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
      • Science Works

        Casual Agent/first cause religious god of the gaps or BS ?

        January 21, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
  2. Alias

    I keep posting my faorite parts of the bible, and people keep telling me that doesn't apply any more.
    Can anyone tell me what parts of the old testament no longer apply?
    And, more importantly, where god tolds us it was okay?

    January 21, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
    • Liar For Atheism Above

      why would a Christian follow Jewish religious laws when they aren't a Jew? If they had to, we couldn't believe Christ died for our sins considering what Jews believe. A nonJewish can't follow their belief if they aren't Jewish. Call it "cherry picking" which I know trolls like you will, it's actually knowing the difference between a Jew and a Christian. Jews can't follow Christian beliefs just like a Christian can't follow their religious beliefs. Begin the excuse train!!'

      January 21, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
      • In Santa we trust

        So you don't accept the ten commandments or original sin?

        January 21, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • Alias

          THIS is what i'm trying to get answered. Obviously some of the OT is still to be followed.
          What parts no longer apply?

          January 21, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
      • Pete

        Jesus followed the Old Testament rules, is that not a good enough reason?

        January 21, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
    • Thomas

      Too many Christians are under the misunderstanding that Jesus said they don't have to follow Old Testament law any more. To the contrary, he specifically said the law must still be followed in Matthew 5:17-20. This applies not only to Jews, but also to Gentile believers, who are spiritual descendants of Abraham.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
      • Hanky

        I don't follow OT law because the recent NT writings specifically tell me not to. For example:

        “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.” – Rom 6:14-15

        “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.” – Rom 7:6

        "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.” – Gal 2:16

        “But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor (to lead us) to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. " – Gal. 3:23-25

        January 21, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • Thomas

          Faith in Jesus is ONE requirement for salvation, but it is not the ONLY requirement. How do you explain what Jesus was saying in Matthew 5:17-20?

          January 21, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • Alias

          Hanky
          What parts of the OT does that passage let us ignore?

          January 21, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
    • Google it

      http://www.diffen.com/difference/New_Testament_vs_Old_Testament

      January 21, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
    • Thomas Jefferson

      Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
  3. Good Without Atheism

    My life is great without atheism. I don't need to deny that I don't have faith or anything like that. I don't attack or mock other faiths on a daily basis for my own selfish benefit. I don't think I'm superior because of what I believe like many atheists seem to think being atheist makes them superior. I'm not constantly negative and/or forcing blaming onto a single religion for what has been done in the past. I blame people not the religion. It really is insane to believe criminals anyways so why do atheists believe them and what they claim? Criminals lie and if atheist are full of "logic" and "reason", why can't they not believe them? I feel as though they believe them for an ignorant reason-to always have attacks made against faiths they don't like. Basically, they do it for a deep emotional reason. If a parent or a friend or whoever "forces" church or Christianity onto them when they were kids or teens, they become deeply attached in a negative illogical way. They think "All Christians are like that!!!" Or my favorite "I'm an expert because I went to church as a kid!!!". That gets me to laugh everytime. You aren't logical if your personal experiences interfere because it's driven by emotion not logic or reason. Stop fooling yourselves.

    January 21, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      and we'll both end up in the same place when we inevitably die. It's the same place we were before we were born.

      there was an unimaginable length of time when we did not exist, then a brief interlude when we did, then once again we will not exist for time everlasting.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:01 pm |
    • translator needed

      "It really is insane to believe criminals anyways so why do atheists believe them and what they claim? Criminals lie and if atheist are full of "logic" and "reason", why can't they not believe them? I feel as though they believe them for an ignorant reason-to always have attacks made against faiths they don't like."

      Does anyone understand what this nutjob is talking about?

      January 21, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
    • WASP

      WARNING!

      ANGRY CHRISTIAN TROLL.

      XD

      January 21, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
    • igaftr

      GWA
      Wow... created many strawmen in one post..."how about a little fire, scarecrow"

      January 21, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
    • What an idiot

      "L" is. Hope he kills this character off soon and brings a more sane troll to the forefront of his trollidity.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Another day, another handle.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
  4. Dyslexic doG

    it would be a pretty basic thought for the snake oil salesmen who wrote the bible to try and cover themselves by putting in lines like "do not believe he who says this book is false for they are servants of the devil" and "he who questions god is wrong sayeth the lord" and "any man who doubts the word of god as written in this book is a fool and will be punished in the afterlife" and so on, and so on, and so on ...

    it's so obvious and transparent!

    so why do Christians keep quoting lines like this from their book when atheists make logical, factual arguments showing the bible's errors and inconsistencies?!?!

    "the bible is right because it is the word of god and it is the word of god because it says so in the bible"

    Comedy Gold!!! LOLOLOL

    January 21, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
    • Liar For Atheism Above

      Ignore this troll. DO NOT feed this troll.

      January 21, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        yes, please do not even read my point. Please do not even try to answer it.

        Just insult me and run away.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
      • Honey Badger Don't Care

        Liar,

        DD is one of the more intelligent and most eloquent people on this board. If you would disconnect your emotional delusion for a minute and actually read and think you might learn something.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          Well that just made my day. 🙂

          January 21, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
      • Sister Mary Kate

        Above where? I'm all for helping out the handicapped, but there should be some requirements for getting one of the Word Press accounts.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:09 pm |
    • fred

      "atheists make logical, factual arguments showing the bible's errors and inconsistencies?!?!"
      =>no, all the atheist arguments I have seen are based on twisting stories and choosing conflicting translations.
      =>so tell me of one that you think is factual

      January 21, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
      • Science Works

        OH fred

        Shall ye say you looked like you do know from the beginning of TIME ?

        January 21, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
      • Sister Mary Kate

        fred: "[atheists].....choosing conflicting translations."

        L O L

        that's called Christianity, fred.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • fred

          As the Bible clearly shows man has not changed since the beginning and continue to repeat the same mistakes. I doubt atheists have a better track record than Christians when it comes to twisting the truth of God to suit their own way.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • Mary Elephant

          As the Bible clearly HAS changed, I doubt Christians can ever agree on what the "truth" is.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
        • Live4Him

          @Mary Elephant : As the Bible clearly HAS changed, I doubt Christians can ever agree on what the "truth" is.

          Changed how? Word order means so much to you (i.e. Paul the apostle vs. the apostle Paul)? Or tense (he said vs. he was saying) Or perhaps spelling (honor vs. honour)? I ask because these are the types of changes that you are holding up as evidence of a changing Bible. And I consider these insignificant.

          <><

          January 21, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • Bart Ehrman

          shows quite capably how variations of the Bible have resulted in differing interpretations.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • fred

          Mary Elephant
          Christians like atheists see God based on who they really are not who God is. No two Christians would be expected to see God or the truth exactly the same. We are all in the same ball park as Christians who are in Christ just like atheists who tend towards materialism in their world view of why our universe exists are in the same ball park.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
        GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day

        January 21, 2014 at 1:18 pm |
        • fred

          Gen 1:3 God said let there be light. This light is that light which separates the darkness and great theological value. In relation to creation it was the light that came into the formless void or as some say the background rays of light that hit the earth.
          Gen 1:14 uses a different Hebrew word for "light" and is actually "lights" as in light-bearers. Keeping it in context we see these light-bearers were to serve as signs to mark off seasons and days/years

          There is no conflict because the Hebrew light ('or) Gen 1:3 is very different from light (ma'or) in Gen 1:14

          Unfortunately when you focus on such distraction you cannot see the wonder of God in creation.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:58 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
        GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created

        January 21, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • fred

          In Gen 2-4 "God" is "Lord God" (Heb YHWH or Yahweh) which is the personal covenant name of loving kindness. Genesis 2 and Genesis 1 are very different as Genesis 2 is about mans personal relationship with God. Take note God has created a garden and put man into that garden. Genesis 2 is a summary account of the beginning of relationship as God formed man (personal touch), made a garden for man and put man into this garden.

          Genesis 1 the Hebrew word for God was Elohim the general name for Gods greatness and power. Genesis 1 is the chronological account of the creation. Then Genesis 2 is the spotlight or summary of Gods personal relationship.

          This was intentional and typical of the writing style of the time.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • Live4Him

          Your intrepretation? You'll see whatever you want to see.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
      • Science Works

        *now*

        January 21, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • fred

          no, not yet, be patient we are all still evolving. I will give you a hint however: unknown + time = atheism of the gaps.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
        • Science Works

          Just like exorcism fred it is ALL BATSH!T CRAZY!!!

          January 21, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
      • Mary Elephant

        There shouldn't be conflicting translation in the perfect word, fred. That there is speaks volumes, son.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • fred

          You are confusing the Word of God which is truth with the various written translations of the Bible. The major translations provide a excellent starting point to allow the truth to enter you heart if it is the truth you seek. Otherwise you will simply find exactly what you were looking for. That is the Divine nature of the Bible as it always reveals the true heart of the one seeking. This is why atheists will find error and all kinds of nonsense that has nothing to do with the revelation of God as presented through the writings of Gods chosen people over the past few thousand years.

          January 21, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
      • Alias

        Fred
        The earth moves. The sun does not go around the earth.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • fred

          Although I will probably default to the culture and time of the writing, when evaluating antiquity, what is the verse you are referring to.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
        GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
        (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience as well as with the fact that God allegedly does not change his mind: NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17.)

        January 21, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        and there are dozens more JUST IN THE FIRST CHAPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        January 21, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
        • fred

          Not necessary. Let's see if we cannot agree upon what was written rather than what was not written. Do you understand the usage of different words changes the meaning of a sentence? There is no reason other than ignorance or denial that would keep us from reaching agreement on what you claim to be an error.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
      • In Santa we trust

        fred,
        Compare the gospels differing stories about Jesus and the money-changers, and the temptation of Christ. They are different.
        The Genesis stories are disproven.
        And many more that have been posted here many times. None so blind as he who will not see.

        January 21, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • fred

          Genesis stories have not been disproven by any accepted scientific method. I agree with you there is no sense going over the same arguments.

          I would expect different accounts of what Jesus did which actually contributes to the validity of the accounts. If you have a car accident and ask 10 eye witnesses what they saw they will never give the exact same account.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
        • anti-fred

          @Fred.

          If you think you're properly addressing any of these comments, you're not. All you are doing is deflecting, and it's making you look even more dim-witted than usual. For your own good, please stop.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:50 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          fred, compare the moneychanger stories. John says Jesus did that at the beginning of his ministry, the others say it was his last act and led to his charges. That is not a minor difference as you imply – something like a different angle obscures some detail.

          January 21, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
        • fred

          In Santa we trust
          Jesus turned the tables on the money changers twice. The first is recorded here at the beginning of his ministry in John 2:15 and the second time at the close of his ministry as recorded in Mark, Luke and Matthew. Note the difference in account between the beginning and the end. This was done to show the importance of Gods House of Prayer.

          January 21, 2014 at 9:04 pm |
        • Science Works

          fred are you by chance related to topher ?

          January 21, 2014 at 9:08 pm |
        • fred

          Science Works
          You of all people should know we have a common ancestor.

          January 21, 2014 at 9:10 pm |
        • Science Works

          Ok fred should of said are you twins or a first cousin ?

          January 21, 2014 at 9:16 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        @Fred
        If you aren't fluent in ancient Hebrew and/or Greek, then you're reading a "flawed translation" of the Bible.
        If someone is going to claim that their Holy Book is inerrant, I would hope they study only the original texts!
        But if you're looking for factual ana/lysis of a Bible story – Noah's Ark is perhaps the simplest to debunk.

        According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark was 450ft by 75ft by 45ft with 3 decks and an 18in overhang (1 cubit = 1.5 feet).
        This means that 4 men with no prior shipbuilding experience managed, in the desert mind you, to locate suitable trees, cut them down, season the wood, transport, cut and shap it, and nail together all 216,525 sqare feet – not counting wood for the frame, load bearing walls, interors rooms, stalls, pens and staircases.
        In order to water proof the boat, they'd also have to find and process enough pitch for 114,750 sq feet. of eterior.
        All this using nothing but Bronze Age tools.
        Even today, a ship of that size would be contructed by hundreds of skilled craftsmen over many years.

        And that is just the issues with physical contruction.
        Perhaps a more important question is what exactly they did with all that poop!
        There were 8 humans on the Ark for a year. How did they contend with the hundreds and hundreds of pounds of excrement produced every day? How could they possibly have collected it, brought it on deck and dumped it overboard?

        January 21, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • lngtrmthnkr

          Doc, why do you feel such a strong need to correct someone who knows the Bible when you clearly do not believe a word of it ? Why would you waste your time and energy on this? If I knew a book was gibberish, I wouldn't waste a second on it. Are you fighting within yourself a battle for your own belief system.

          January 21, 2014 at 5:13 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Because I don't think that the Bible is gibberish.
          It is a literary work so singular importance in the history of our civilization.
          It survives not only because of the ecclesiastical power structures it engendered but also because it is uniquely insightful when it comes to the instincts, habits, vices and virtues that define humanity.
          I just don't think it is wise to take it as literal truth.
          Treating it as historically, inerrantly factual detracts from the it's relevance and poignancy in the modern world.

          January 21, 2014 at 5:35 pm |
        • lngtrmthnkr

          Doc, I agree that it is an historic epic of which reveals the nature of the times and people. Whether it is completely factual or is partially legend , it tells a great story of the past. But it also reveals the relationships with God through history and tells the story of mans' relation to God through rebellion and redemption which occurs over and over through out the book . It shows the forgiving charachter of God.

          January 21, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
      • ME II

        OT: Genesis 1) gets the order of appearance out of sequence.and 2)a world-wide flood hasn't happened since man appeared.
        NT: Matthew and Luke disagree on when Jesus was born and what his genealogy was.

        January 21, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • fred

          Are you saying the creation order of Genesis is in conflict with our current understanding? What part?

          The flood is not in Genesis 2 but I assume you are speaking about our current understanding of geology, physics and meteorology all of which oppose a global flood. I agree, so I would need to argue against science which would require a different set of natural laws. Unfortunately there is no evidence of natural laws other than what we currently know to exist. To this I would say with God anything is possible not to mention the fringe scientific community that has support for the flood. However, I do not see those as viable alternatives any more than a localized flood of some kind but they are alternatives.
          There is no doubt whatsoever of the purpose of the flood story and the important message of the flood story. Belief in literal flood story is not a requirement to have a personal relationship with Christ or stumble into heaven upon death through grace alone. Personally I like all the possibilities presented by the ark and how God works in and through generations to bring about His purpose in creation. I have yet to find a greater story than Genesis that goes to the heart of our existence in time and space that appear without boundary.

          January 21, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • Science Works

          fred we have bio-bots and live heart cells make them swim fred !

          January 21, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
        • fred

          Matthew was writing to the Jews so he set down the genealogy to establish the claim to the throne of King David. Anyone in his time would have known this claim was flawless. If his line could have been contested the established religions of the day would have ended the ruse.
          Matthew purposefully abridged the genealogy and chose 3 cycles of 14 generations related to a period in Israel's history. The letters of the Hebrew alphabet also served as numbers (i.g. 14 is the sum of the letters of David's name) to aid in memory.
          Luke presents the son of Man so he worked backward to Adam as he presented a Gentile Gospel

          January 21, 2014 at 3:43 pm |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Dog ,I am continually amazed by the anger and resentment people have for somthing they don't even believe exists. If you don't believe in any deity and think it is stupid to do so ,why all the anger? Do you not believe in free speech and free thinking? Do you think believers are a threat to you somehow. Are you so threatened by the idea of God that you feel you must attack people?

      January 21, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
  5. Dyslexic doG

    Doctor King was a great man but that doesn't make his delusion about a magical man in the sky any less foolish.

    History is full of great men who believed things that modern science has shown to be patently false.

    January 21, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
  6. Phil Ward

    Dr. King was a great American Christian who like his mentor, Jesus Christ, gave up his life to free others.

    Thanks for helping us to appreciate the good things to be found in all of us Dr. King.

    Happy Birthday and may you rest in peace.

    January 21, 2014 at 12:16 pm |
    • igaftr

      "Dr. King was a great American Christian who like his mentor, Jesus Christ, gave up his life to free others."

      False....MLK did not give up his life to free others. He was murdered, so he had no intention in his death. Tragic, yes, inteded death to free others, no.

      January 21, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
      • I wonder

        iga,

        And they wonder how legends get started and proliferate...

        January 21, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
    • AE

      "I just want to do God's will ..." -MLK, Jr
      Amen.

      January 21, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        "To Odin many a soul was driven,
        To Odin many a rich gift given.
        Loud raged the storm on battle-field
        Axe rang on helm, and sword on shield."
        —Einar, Heimskringla

        January 21, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
        • AE

          "Those who formerly turned to God to find solutions for their problems turned to science and technology, convinced that they now possessed the instruments needed to usher in the new society.

          Scripture says, Claiming to be wise they became fools and their senseless minds were darkened. (Rom 1:22)

          Then came the explosion of this myth. It climaxed in the horrors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and in the fierce fury of fifty-megaton bombs. Now we have come to see that science can give us only physical power, which, if not controlled by spiritual power, will lead inevitably to cosmic doom.

          Atheists are forever saying how many lives were lost in the name of religion. Frankly our numbers are not even close to the blood bath ushered in by atheist materialists.

          The words of Albert the Great are still true: “Power is never a good unless he be good that has it.” We need something more spiritually sustaining and morally controlling than science. It is an instrument that, under the power of God’s spirit, may lead man to greater heights of physical security, but apart from God’s spirit, science is a deadly weapon that will lead only to deeper chaos."

          MLK Jr

          January 21, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • igaftr

          gosh thanks for re-printing his OPINION. noted, moving on.

          January 21, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "Atheists are forever saying how many lives were lost in the name of religion. Frankly our numbers are not even close to the blood bath ushered in by atheist materialists."

          Oh Dr King, you are SO wrong on this one.

          January 21, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • I wonder

          "Scripture says, Claiming to be wise they became fools and their senseless minds were darkened. (Rom 1:22)"

          And yet who thinks themselves 'wise' to believe that "Scripture" is 'wise'?

          It's turtles all the way down...

          January 21, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
  7. CommonSensed

    One of my favorite things circulating right now on the inter webs. The graphic with MLK on one side and a loser with his pants falling off his butt and the words – I had a dream, this wasn't it.

    Says so much with so little.

    January 21, 2014 at 11:56 am |
    • igaftr

      I have a dream, that I can walk down the street and not have to see some dis-respectful punk's underwear.

      January 21, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
      • WASP

        AGREED! that just looks soooooo disgusting.

        January 21, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
  8. AE

    "I experienced the presence of the Divine as I had never experienced Him before. Almost at once my fears began to go. My uncertainty disappeared. I was ready to face anything."

    – Martin Luther King, JR

    January 21, 2014 at 11:36 am |
    • Logic Fail

      Appeal to authority fallacy.

      January 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
      • AE

        I didn't say it proved anything, failbot. We are in the message board of an opinion piece on Martin Luther King, JR.

        Martin Luther King, JR said that in reference to receiving phone calls calling him a n**** and threatening to kill him and his family, specifically naming his newborn baby. And he testified he found strength from God to carry on.

        January 21, 2014 at 12:25 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    why do Christians claim to be so selfless when their religion makes them purely selfish. EVERY thing they do is for their own self interest ... to get to heaven after they die. When they give to others ... it is to get to heaven. When they follow their rules ... it is to get to heaven. It's all for their own good so that they'll not die at the end of their time but go to this magical place in the sky where they will always be happy and healthy and surrounded by those they love. Pure self interest.

    January 21, 2014 at 10:57 am |
    • lngtrmthnkr

      Dog , it's a great story, ending up in heaven surrounded by family and loved ones . Do you resent the story or is it that you don't have one of your own?

      January 21, 2014 at 5:46 pm |
  10. Archibald Smythe-Pennington, III

    It was nearly 20 below again in International Falls, MN this morning.
    Time to think of traveling to warmer places.
    Let the music of the man who scored the spaghetti westerns take you somewhere else: Ennio Morricone.

    the setting: Europe to Asia in the footsteps of Marco Polo
    Main title music from the 1982 miniseries Marco Polo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHyRN4zRqA0
    The same piece with Maestro Morricone arranged for Yo Yo Ma
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BphXUs1tx7k

    the setting: the Texas panhandle
    "Harvest" from the 1978 Terrence Malick film Days of Heaven starring Richard Gere, Brooke Adams and Sam Shepard
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFyeLJ0AXmk

    the setting: South America
    Here Morricone conducts his main theme from the 1982 Roland Joffe film The Mission starring Robert De Niro and Jeremy Irons
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oag1Dfa1e_E

    Morricone has written music for over 500 motion pictures and television series. Among his many awards is the Honorary Oscar – only one of two composers who have won the award. It was presented to him in 2007 by Clint Eastwood who also interpreted Ennio's native Italian acceptance speech.

    For more info, check out Morricone's wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ennio_Morricone

    January 21, 2014 at 10:20 am |
  11. RB

    I’ve never read any of his books, but I’ve watched several of his speeches (sermons really). He was a fantastic preacher.

    January 21, 2014 at 8:36 am |
  12. Honey Badger Don't Care

    I've never heard any of them and I wont hear this one. Why would it be the best?

    January 21, 2014 at 8:13 am |
  13. Watching the defectives

    It's interesting how many Christians come here to promote their religion and violate so many core rules of that religion at the same time.

    January 20, 2014 at 11:24 pm |
  14. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    "Can you name any of his great speeches or written works without citing "I Have a Dream" or the "Letter from Birmingham Jail"?

    Most Americans would likely flub this quiz."

    Yes, I know I would. But then most Americans would flub *any* quiz about American history that requires anything more than superficial answers.

    Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? (Hint Thomas Jefferson is only one of the answers.)

    When Franklin published the famous "Join or Die" woodcut of a severed rattlesnake, who was the enemy that the colonies needed to unite against?

    Who defended those accused of the so-called "Boston Massacre" (and got six of them acquitted, and the other two reduced sentences)?

    Who was responsible for the incident that ignited the French and Indian War (or as it is also known, The Seven Years War, and was arguably the first truly global war)?

    January 20, 2014 at 12:32 pm |
    • How'd I do?

      Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? Yoda and Darth Vader after a night of heavy drinking

      Who was the enemy that the colonies needed to unite against? The Daleks

      Who defended those accused of the so-called "Boston Massacre" Johnny Cochran

      Who was responsible for the incident that ignited the French and Indian War? Sid Vicious, the little troublemaker.

      January 20, 2014 at 12:49 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        Partial credit for knowing that Johnny Cochran is a lawyer. 😉

        January 20, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
        • How'd I do?

          He is? I thought he was a rocker who did "Summertime Blues."

          January 20, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • Lol@How'd I do?

          That was Eddie Cochran. You're funny! 🙂

          January 20, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • "How'd I do?" as played by Joe Pesci

          What do you mean I'm funny? What do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What? Funny how? What's funny about it? You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little flucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fluckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny? You said I'm funny. How the fluck am I funny, what the fluck is so funny about me? Tell me, tell me what's funny!

          January 20, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
        • Happy Atheist

          "If the Musket Ball doesn't fit, you must aquit!" – John E. Cochran Adams...

          January 20, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
        • Lol@How'd I do?

          Whoa! Fugeddaboudit!

          January 20, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          @Happy Atheist:

          I like your take on it. I'd (pointedly) suggest this alternative:

          If the bayonet don't fit, you must acquit! – John E. Cochran Adams

          January 20, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
  15. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Possibly he used religion as a tool and stepping stone as many politicians do. He was a great man regardless of any unfounded beliefs he may have held.

    January 20, 2014 at 11:35 am |
    • Russ

      @ TTTOO: you might be interested in David Chappell's "Stone of Hope" – where he points out that it was *precisely* because of MLK's conservative faith that his progressive politics succeeded where so many others failed. he was actually able to expose Southern racists by being *more faithful* to the Bible than they themselves were.

      January 20, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
      • Destra

        That's not really hard to do...then or now.

        Although I would call him an activist rather than a politician.

        January 20, 2014 at 5:51 pm |
  16. AE

    "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
    – MLK Jr

    January 20, 2014 at 10:59 am |
    • CommonSensed

      "For even the very wise cannot see all ends"

      – Gandalf

      January 21, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
  17. Reality # 2

    Great man but suffered from being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in Christianity, a very common sickness.

    January 20, 2014 at 10:46 am |
    • Responding to the Pride

      Did he really suffer for it? Or was it, perhaps, the strength of his faith that allowed him to take positions that he most certainly know would put his life at risk. You see religion as a sickness–some of us see it as energizing–enough to change the direction of an entire nation.

      January 20, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Religion was the cause of his situation.

        To wit: Ranking in the top 20 Atrocities Committed by Humans Against Their Fellow Humans:

        Rank …..Death Toll ..Cause …..Centuries……..(Religions/Groups involved)*

        8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)

        10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)

        January 20, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
        • AE

          Martin Luther King, JR preached peace. Not war.

          January 20, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Christians and Muslims enslaved Africans Said Christians and Muslims used their holy books to make slavery permissible basically being responsible for the horrors of both slavery and the Civil War. MLK should have never been here in the first place.

          January 20, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • midwest rail

          " MLK should have never been here in the first place. "
          Completely irrelevant your O.P. And the "Reality" is that he was here.

          January 20, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • AE

          MLK, JR used that same holy book to win the freedom of lots of people "who shouldn't have been here".

          January 20, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
      • Responding to the Pride

        No, sin was the cause of his situation. To whatever extent those purporting to adhere to Christianity played a role in perpetuating slavery, they neither understood Christ's commands, and certainly thye did not understand the purpose of Paul's letter to Philemon and its larger context–an subtle jab at slavery in a world dominated by it. Hatred was MLK's enemy–nothing more and nothing less.

        January 20, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          No, god supports slavery throughout the bible. Never once says it is wrong or even undesirable.

          January 20, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
        • Basically

          A "subtle jab at slavery." Wow, what moral courage! A tepid obscure reference. That really changed things, didn't it!

          January 20, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.