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January 21st, 2014
02:24 PM ET
Six surprising changes to the anti-abortion March for LifeBy Daniel Burke, Belief Blog Co-editor (CNN) - For decades, the March for Life has followed a familiar formula: Bus in thousands of abortion opponents. Protest in front of the Supreme Court. Go home. But this year, in addition to braving snow and bone-chilling wind, the March will move in a different direction, says Jeanne Monahan, president of the anti-abortion group. Long-winded political speeches? See ya. An exclusive focus on Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court case that lifted restrictions on abortion? Gone. A hipster Catholic musician, evangelical leaders and March for Life app? Welcome to the protest. And those changes just skim the surface. The March for Life, billed as the world’s largest anti-abortion event, is remaking itself in deeper ways as well, says Monahan. For its first 40 years, the march was marshaled by Nellie Gray, an occasionally irascible Catholic who had little use for modern technology, political compromise or the mainstream media. Gray died in her home office in 2012 at age 88. A short time later, Monahan was named her successor at the March for Life. While abortion opponents praise Gray’s legacy, there’s a popular saying around the March for Life’s Washington headquarters: “We’re a brand-new, 41-year-old organization.” The goal: to turn their annual, one-day demonstration into a potent political machine. Abortion rights advocates say they’re skeptical that March for Life leaders can convince more Americans to join their cause. Since 1989, the percentage who want to overturn Roe has barely budged above 30%. “It’s an impressive show,” Jon O’Brien, president of Catholics for Choice, says of the March for Life. “But at the end of the day, they have failed dramatically at their goal.” Still, even O’Brien expressed respect for his foes’ new plans. “It’s pretty clever, actually.” With that in mind, here are six big ways the March for Life is changing this year: 1) 9 to 5 Since 1974, the March for Life has made a really loud noise every January 22, the anniversary of Roe. V. Wade. Estimates of the crowd’s size vary, but it seems safe to say tens of thousands have attended the protest each year. Organizers estimate that at least 50% of the marchers are under 18, as busloads of Catholic school kids descend on the capital from across the country. But some abortion opponents complain the March for Life had morphed in recent years from a political demonstration to a photo op. Ryan Bomberger, an anti-abortion activist who is speaking at march events, says the protest needs to find ways to harness its youthful energy throughout the year. “You’ve got all these young people with energy and passion and the desire to do something about the injustice of abortion. But what do they do when they leave the march and go home?” March for Life leaders want to turn its young protesters into citizen lobbyists, much like Tea Party partisans and the Obama campaign did with their troops. The key to that, says March for Life's Chairman of the Board Patrick Kelly, is to keep them engaged throughout the year, including through social media. (More on that later.) In addition to Monahan, an experienced Washington politico, the March for Life has beefed up its Washington office by hiring a full-time lobbyist and social media manager who will also lead outreach to evangelicals, a big and politically active constituency. The focus this year will be combating the Obama administration’s contraception mandate, which requires most companies to provide free contraceptive coverage to employees. Abortion opponents say that some covered services are tantamount to abortion. 2) If You’ve Got the Money, We've Got the Time For decades, the March for Life subsisted on a meager budget: Just $150,000 a year, according to tax filings from 2009-2011. But new Washington offices, lobbyists and social media managers don’t come cheap. Fortunately for the March for Life, a donor who was a friend of Gray’s bequeathed $550,000 to the organization last year. That, along with a more robust fund-raising campaign, has allowed the March to increase its budget from $252,000 when Monahan took over in 2012, to $780,000 this year. “We are professionalizing the March for Life,” said Kelly. 3) With Arms Wide Open Though various religious groups oppose abortion (many support abortion rights as well) the March for Life has come to be considered mainly a Catholic event. Catholic clergy offer prayers, Catholic politicians make speeches and Catholic school kids fill out the rank-and-file. Monahan says this year will different. The March for Life has hired a full-time staffer devoted to bringing more Protestant evangelicals to the protest, and they hope to see that effort bear fruit this Wednesday. They’ve tapped James Dobson, founder of the evangelical powerhouse ministry Focus on the Family, as a keynote speaker. Dobson and his adopted son, Ryan, will talk about adoption, an issue close to the heart of many evangelicals. 4) The Hardest Part For the first time in its 41 years, the March for Life will focus on an issue besides abortion on Wednesday. Through Dobson and other speakers, the march is also promoting the idea of “noble adoption” as an alternative to abortion. “Adoption is a heroic decision for pregnant mothers who find themselves in a difficult situation,” says Monahan. “We want to eliminate the stigma of adoption and encourage women to pursue this noble option.” The spotlight on adoption dovetails with new focus within the anti-abortion movement on crisis pregnancy centers, which urge women to carry their pregnancy to term. Critics charge that the centers divulge false medical information about abortion and deceive unwitting patients into thinking they provide abortions, only to advise them otherwise. Supporters say they help women through financial assistance, counseling and adoption referrals. 5) Wish You Were Here Despite the youth of many March for Life participants, the group’s website had been decidedly Web 1.0. Under Monahan, that has changed dramatically. The group posts Instagram pics of chilly protesters trudging through snow at past marches on Throwback Thursdays. They upload posts about prenatal development to Pinterest and tweet throughout the year, including this one about the difficult choices pregnant women sometimes face. For the more technically advanced, the March has developed an app that connects to a 360-degree camera so folks can follow the protest from home. The app also has anti-abortion information, links to articles about adoption and tips for lobbying Congress. “We have to find a way to take those boots on the ground and talk to them throughout the year,” says Kelly. “And with Facebook and Twitter and other social media we have the tools to do so.” The March is also hoping for a high-profile social media endorsement on Wednesday: Monahan says she’s asked the Vatican to send a tweet from the Pope in support of the March for Life. UPDATE: On Wednesday morning, Monahan got her papal tweet. 6) Yakety Yak Imagine listening to politicians drone on for hours about their voting records in the chilly January air. Fun, right? Monahan didn’t think so either, so she’s trying to accomplish a minor miracle: limiting the speaking time of politicians at the pre-march rally. Only a handful of politicians, including House Majority Leader Eric Canton, R-Virginia, and Rep. Dan Lipinski, D-Illinois, have been invited to speak. They’ve all been asked to keep their speeches to a just a few minutes. “In past years our rally has gone on for two or three hours and people lost interest,” Monahan says. So, instead of boring speeches, the rally this year will feature a live concert by Matt Maher, a Catholic singer-songwriter with a huge following among young Christians. So, will all this make any difference? Clearly, changes are afoot this year at the March for Life. But what effect, if any, will they have on the larger anti-abortion movement? Not much, says Ziad Munson, a sociologist at Lehigh University and author of the book “The Making of Pro-life Activists.” The March for Life hasn’t really been politically influential since the early 1990s, says Munson. Meanwhile, other abortion opponents, like Catholic bishops and National Right to Life Committee, have led the charge. “In effect, what we’re seeing is a new organization within a movement, not a new approach,” he says. “I don’t think the March for Life is likely to make inroads that haven’t already been made.” Monahan is more optimistic. If the March can recruit even a slice of its youthful protesters into citizen activists, she says, it might be enough to tip the balance in a country deeply divided on the morality of abortion.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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You must keep any baby you create, life is precious! Oh sorry, you cant afford health care, food, clothes, schooling for your child that is your problem. Does that about sum up the logic of these drama queens?
Yes. Exactly.
no the logic is the truth of God. but that doesn't start with abortion, that starts with you seeking the authority of the Holy Spirit through the forgiveness of sins.
Life is not secular like the US has set up its government.
John 1
New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
Life is a gift from Christ, co creator, and you are not a secular life. you simply need to open up to truth if you have not all ready.
" the logic is the truth of God."
You see there's your problem. You got it all wrong in the very first sentence alone.
Your god is not logical
Your god is not true
So stop using your imaginary friend in the sky as an excuse to tell other people what they can and can't do.
You know what? I am sick and tired of people like you who prance about the Internet acting like they are the expert on all things Christian, when they exhibit their ignorance very blatantly the moment they begin typing. If you wanted to know the truth, you'd look for it and find it, but instead you go to great lengths to practice sophistry in order to justify your own wrongdoings.
Maybe. What's wrong with expecting people to take responsibility for the children they create?
John 3:19 ►
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
I thought truth wasn't found in religion? Why are you quoting the bible?
People with their eyes open know that this will not always happen.
I'm not into playing a blame game while the unwanted children suffer.
Exactly! I know a 25 year old who has lived his life feeling unloved by his Mother because loving him meant loving her father and years of abuse.
These people don't look outside the box at the reality of the situation and they tend to forget that where there's a will there's a way.
Yeppers...they don't give a rats hiney about the child after it's born.
thats not right either. two wrongs......
Well austin maybe if you showed some balls and show women how you would HELP them with their child maybe they wouldn't consider abortion.
But yet Austin, that is exactly what you risk when you deny a woman the right to abort. It doesn't matter in the end, you can scream your little irrational rants til the cows come home, the law is what it is and that won't change. You need to find something else to focus your obviously boring life on and realize that until you are able to put the shoe on the foot (ie; get pregnant), your opinion matters little.
So the answer is to kill the child because you can't provide for it? Let's see, maybe that should have been considered before you did "the deed"? Is that too much accountability for a consenting adult? If your motives aren't self-serving ( sacrificing a child to the god of convenience) and I have a hard time questioning that they aren't for most people who support abortion. Let's consider that the real divide is the moment that "life" begins. A philosophical question that, secularly speaking, will probably never have a hard-line defined answer that gives people a warm fuzzy. This was a topic in ancient Rome, and we still don't have it figured out. Supporting abortion is errring on the side of risk, because you don't know that life doesn't begin at conception. You just believe it doesn't. Again, speaking purely secularly, I would rather err on the side of caution and not destroy the embryo....just in case. Add some theological arguments to it, which cannot even begin to be scratched in this forum, and you have a pretty heavy argument against abortion. If you don't want a kid or the responsibility of a pregnancy, then be a little more careful about what you do and/or who you do it with. Not a popular concept, I know, but "popular" and "logically sound" aren't always synonomous.
I want to applaud you for being one of the few sane people around here. Most of us take one look at this cesspool and leave. I'd like to think there are more of us out there, they just aren't saying anything...
OK let me get this straight.. this groups wants to end abortions but they also want to fight expanded access to birth control!..Brilliant! hmmm.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that more birth control = less abortions Just the kind of crazy that evangelical republicans can get behind!
Yes. Exactly.
Common sense. Unfortunately the religious whackjobs have agendas.
No, birth control is not a "solution" to abortion. What happened in the 60s? Birth control became widespread, promiscuity became rampant, and after that, abortion was legalized. Think seriously about it, I know it's hard, but think. More birth control = more people having se>< for the wrong reasons = more 'failures' = more abortions. Abortion and birth control go hand in hand; one is a more extreme version of the other.
Motives are extremely important in this debate.
Really listen to the things people say, the arguments they use on either side. It says so much about who they are, what kind of people they are. Even if people aren’t honest with themselves, their motives speak volumes about what or who they are.
your point?
Her point is that some people are using this issue to promote another agenda.
She's right.
I mean give a specific point. In essence we all have agendas.
what agenda does pro life serve other than casting shame on something that is shameful and in most cases preventable?
a moral agenda? that is a Godly thing.
Where's the shame? To each his/her own. Your opinion doesn't matter. Where's the shame in the repubs cutting SNAP? I haven't read a commnet from you on that.
Austin
"a moral agenda? that is a Godly thing"
Yep. NOT one time does the word "abortion" appear in the Bible but support for slavery does. So much for "Godly morals".
observer, you go do the history and you will have to realize that Israel was a slave, and so was Christ. He was a slave to the cross.
the other issue about abortion being in the bible is settled. God has forbidden fornication, and thus would not approve of abortion either. it's obvious. abortion unless for a medical emergency is an abomination. so is a secular education.
Austin
"you go do the history and you will have to realize that Israel was a slave"
NOPE. People were slaves. They are the same PEOPLE that God said you could beat without punishment and treat as property.
"the other issue about abortion being in the bible is settled. God has forbidden fornication, and thus would not approve of abortion either"
Another FAILURE. Try again. Who said that married couples wouldn't want abortions when contraceptives fail?
8 assassinated in the US .
Abortion doctors: A matter of life and death
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/abortion-doctors-a-matter-of-life-and-death-9075786.html
they deserve it
good,
How "Christian" of you!
Typical "pro-life" hypocrite.
Wow good I have seen some way off the wall comments but yours is actually off the charts.
"A hipster Catholic musician"
All credibility goes out the window right there.
Six things? Actually the only number that counts is 57,000,000+. That's the number of abortions performed since Roe v. Wade, most of them voluntary.
Putting it in perspective.
That is heart wrenching.
Vic you may find it hard to believe, pro choicers don't celebrate abortions. As I told austin. If you want to stop abortions, tell the repubs and religious organizations to stop attacking the ACA, make birth control easier to get and teach s3x ed in school. You won't eliminate abortions but you can cut them down.
"Poor nutrition causes nearly half (45%) of deaths in children under five – 3.1 million children each year."
(https://www.wfp.org/hunger/stats)
An unplanned pregnancy was I and a Respect for Human Lifer in all its forms am I now. Thanks Mom and Dad !!!
Were your parents married at the time?
"Most women getting abortions (83%) are unmarried; 67% have never married, and 16% are separated, divorced, or widowed.4 Married women are significantly less likely than unmarried women to resolve unintended pregnancies through abortion."
Marriage thereby is another way of reducing the current epidemic of abortions and STDs. And yes my parents were married. They were good but brainwashed Catholics and I was like many Catholic kids at that time, a "rhythm" baby.
If they had planned you maybe you would have turned out better.
thats awesome !
John The Baptist had a camel hair outfit and he ate locusts, and he is a rich man in the kingdom.
Bible Study ToolsBible VersionsNIVMatthewMatthew 5
Matthew 5 (New International Version)
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The Beat.itudes
5:3-12pp - Lk 6:20-23
1 Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them, saying: 3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
I think religion should be left out of this discussion. Believe what you want, fine, I'm glad you are pro life but if your argument is a religious one then you can not support it with any verifiable facts and that isn't helping.
This is not a religious issue, it is a human rights issue.
On one hand government does not have the right to tell women how to handle their bodies, on the other hand no one should have the right to tell someone they can not be born.
If we can set religion aside for a moment maybe we can all work together to get a solution.
Decide when life begins. Murder is already a crime.
Roe pretty much decided when the fetus is viable outside the mother's body.
eight inches for the transformation of a non human to a human?
Viability is.
your life is not secular. any life that adds to the kingdom of God, the book of life, is honoring to God. you can assume incorrectly and you do have that freedom. (rejecting salvation)
the fact is all men are totally depraved and spritaully dead and blind until you accept the forgiveness of sins and the baptism of the holy spirit.
until then you serve death that leads to death. That is why you proclaim the right to kill. you do not have any such right before God.
Someone's life can certainly be secular, if that's how they choose to live it. Religion is personal, to follow one, or none, is a choice.
no being wrong is not any type of validating reality. You are outside of the will of God. you are only deceived and spiritually dead. The word "secular" is a demonic tactic.
If Jesus Christ is resurrected, then I am correct right?
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
John 16:8
this says that He will prove the world. that means everyone.
You keep waiting.
ken I am following you and not waiting. The Holy Spirit (not me) is seeking your attention.
Ask for the Holy Spirit.
After a few drinks, Yes I see the holy spirit!
You are outside of the will of God
---
How would you know? Maybe you're outside God's will. Since we don't know what that is, how would anyone know who's in and who's out? Right, we wouldn't. We'd only have opinions, as we see here every day.
the truth about the resurrection and the Holy Spirit is not considered religion. saying that that truth is "religion" is deception. Religion pertains to mans inventions, not God's truth.
austin
to say it is truth is the same as lying since you can't prove it.
You can truthfully say that it is what you believe to be the truth, not that it is truth.
not God's truth
-–
And, where is this found? How do we know what it is?
technically the resurrection is proof. but people dislike the idea of a holy God judging them because that calls them to repentance. as John said, "repent the kingdom is of heaven is at hand" and "bear fruit worthy of repentance",
and he also explained that we are baptized with fire (judgment)
but you can have personal proof through the gift of faith from the Holy Spirit.
This is a supernatural gift.
Well, you said above that "religion pertains to mans inventions", which is true. But, you don't have the resurrection of Christ, you don't have John, and you don't have the Holy Spirit without christianity. Christianity is religion. So do we need religion, or not, to "know" God's "truth"? I contend it can't be known anyway, but just for the sake of discussion. Be consistent, if you say religion is deception, you'll have to stop quoting the bible. Can you do this?
Your god does not exist.
I therefore see no reason to worship it or follow the error filled bible.
Of course, this is still a free country, so you go ahead and do whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
well there are many things that do not feel good, such as having the testimony of the Holy Spirit and watching other people reject justification because of ignorance.
◄ John 3:17 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Romans 5:8 ►
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
"yet sinners" means that you while you are yet sinful in atti.tude and will can still seek forgiveness. You are not excluded and He loves you.
Austin,
Do you really believe that you all knowing and all powerful god had no choise but to get a virgin pregnant and torture the child to death? The bible says that is the ONLY way he would be able to forgive us all for a sin we did not commit.
yes i believe that He told Adam, "the day you eat of the tree you shall surely die, and that blood sacrifice was a sign that sin is death and atrocious to God, who is HOly.
and yes, as the creation fell, He did not get her pregnant through a s.ex act, He became a man through her womb as an expression of love and forgiveness. I would expect God to help your sinful, your blaringly obvious sinful condition through some means of forgiveness, and the expression of the Christ is what God chose and it makes sense.
furthermore, I am not in to religion, I have experienced salvation through forgiveness and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that bears the truth of God's word on a persons heart. in other words, I am here because God has done something within me. I say this in truth because i have experienced it.
That tree Austin is the log in your ______ !
"I am here because God has done something within me. I say this in truth because i have experienced it."
No, all you've experienced is a chemical reaction in your brain that we can all feel regardles if we believe in a god or not. We all have the power within ourselves to change who we are, some people like you have this great need to feel special even though you are not because you don't have the self confidence to love yourself for who you have become. There is no god needed in any of it, it's all in your head and imagnation. There is absolutely nothing special about you Austin and your can't handle that reality.
Please do us all a favor and move to Iran. The USA will never be a theocracy.
We did that already.
Look up Roe vs Wade.
It protrects a woman's rights toher own body and applies restrictions to protect the fetus/baby.
It also allow for exceptions in the case of medical considerations.
Some people are just too close minded to reason with.
If you want to set religion aside. Tell people to STOP SUPPORTING THE CHURCH. Don't give money, don't volunteer and make them pay taxes.
The men against abortion are your basic cavemen. Anyone that wants to take control of your body away from you, don't think very much of you as a person or individual. Kind of Rick Santorum-ish.
The women against abortion are the ones that believe "you should let men decide" and "women should know their place" type of women. In other words. Old, alone and out of batteries.
Ken you get a pass for your opinions I cant deal with that. But where that can all change is if you experience salvation, if you seek salvation, you will receive supernatural light.
9The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Austin for all the salvation you've received, all it has gotten you is blogging with non believers like me. I'm not going to change just like you're not going to change. You want to stop abortion? Tell repubs and religious organizations to stop attacking the ACA and make birth control easier. People have s3x, get over it.
What you read in the bible is 99% myth. If Jesus was a single historical figure, he was a man – no resurrection or second coming. So keep your religion to yourself and out of public policy.
no , no sector of life is secular. Not in China , not in india. Jesus Christ is resurrected and the savior of "all " the world.
your secular politics are exactly as disclosed in the book of REV the "who.re that rides the beast"
The Bible is prophetically genius and accurate.
Also, I have personal proof of the resurrection through my spiritual gift of prophecy. No one, can discredit me.
You have no personal proof; how does one distinguish that from delusion or worse?
Austin
"Also, I have personal proof of the resurrection through my spiritual gift of prophecy. No one, can discredit me."
Good. So let's get this PERFECTLY clear:
You have predicted a class f5 or f7 tornado will hit Raymond, NE in April or May, 2014. Yes or no?
I meant objective proof. Must have thinking of your words.
That's a nice narrative you have there, but how does it fit me, a 17 year old female, and thousands of other young women who are against abortion because they are for human rights? You can't argue against the truth so you make things up. Interesting.
Logic.
"thousands of other young women who are against abortion because they are for human rights?"
Fascinating. So you believe that laws should eliminate any input you have concerning abortion? Seriously?
I agree religion should be left out but I disagree that we can find a solution because we all want something different and conflicting. The majority "want" will prevail, right, wrong, or indifferent.
It is primarily a religious belief that drives this "pro-life" movement. Rules designed to produce more believers in a time when there were not 7 billion people already. It would carry more weight if they were consistent across all causes of death.
I note Pope Francis offers his prayers for this group. That's great considering that Catholic theology claims that God is unchanging and has set his plan in motion (not subject to change) which, in effect, makes the Pope's prayers not only useless in support of this group but insulting to his own theology.
No, in Catholic theology God knows what we will pray for before we even do it and plans accordingly. Note, this does not negate free will. Just because I know the sun will rise tomorrow doesn't make my knowledge the cause of it.
The Republicans have their women. They are not making war on their mothers wives and daughters. Only on yours, I would guess. And maybe their strays.
Got it in one.
I wonder how many of those protesters have stood up to the plate and offered to adopt or at least pay for the raising of the children they demand be born-
I would guess very few.
NOT ANY BECAUSE NONE OF THEM CARE.
Oh look, the bigots are here. What a surprise.
Murder any children lately?
Oh look the phony is here. How many have you adopted?
How is it bigoted to support choice? Do you know what bigot means? So you know a child is an entity that already been born? Do you know what hyperbole means?
"They’ve tapped James Dobson, founder of the evangelical powerhouse ministry Focus on the Family, as a keynote speaker. Dobson and his adopted son, Ryan, will talk about adoption, an issue close to the heart of many evangelicals." ..... any is kind of harsh, don't you think? Also, a lie.
Ok they adopted one. Unfortunately there are thousands of kids waiting to be adopted. Instead of being a pain in the azz marching, why aren't they adopting until there aren't any more to adopt. Where is this energy when it comes to common sense gun laws? these schmoo's support repubs who vote against gun control laws. You know, guns that help kill over 10,000 babies that were born.
Agreed, however, what percentage of raging, tea party, foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-choice, christards have even considered adoption as it relates to their backwards view on abortion?
I put a million dollars on a bet that it's not even a half of one percent.
This is a joke, right?
The continuation of the republican war on women.
Naturally.
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that many pro-lifers are young WOMEN. Buzzwords/red herrings like "republican war on women" will get you nowhere.
If you want to prevent abortions, you make sure everyone has health care, a high school education and birth control. Not the exact opposite.
But how does that allow god to control behavior?
You can't control god's behavior; he always aborts 4 out of every 5 embryos. Sometimes......you know...he just drowns them in a global flood that kills everybody, but you get the idea.
Who?
Topher says:
"The problem is science rejects evolution."
Nearly every scientific society, representing hundreds of thousands of scientists, have issued statements rejecting intelligent design and a peti.tion supporting the teaching of evolutionary biology was endorsed by 72 US Nobel Prize winners.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the world's largest general scientific society with more than 130,000 members and over 262 affiliated societies and academies of science including over 10 million individuals, has made several statements and issued several press releases in support of evolution.
According to the The International Federation of Biologists, there are more than 3 million bilogical scientists globally who rely on the 5 laws of Darwinian evolution for their jobs every single day.
I think he was talking about Christian Science. Christian Science rejects evolution. However, Christian Science is not science in any way, shape, or form. Just in name.
However, even in schools for Christian Scientists, evolution is taught and creationism is not. (Unlike Catholic schools, schools for Christian Scientists are not run by the church).
Well, Christian Scientists do not believe in evolution as defined by scientists. They teach "intelligent design", which is their form of evolution, and they call it evolution, but that form of evolution has been rejected by the scientific community. Again, Christian Science is not science.
Christian Science is a particular, and rather peculiar, sect that came to be in the 1800.
Their founder, Mary Baker Eddy, had nothing to say about evolution.
Their schtick is that everybody can channel Christ's magical healing powers if they just do what she says.
You're probably thinking of "Creation Scientists" like the people at the Discovery Insti/tutue and Professor Behe, the evolution denier who was decimated in the Kansas Dover trials about teaching evolution in schools.
Their goal is not to teach what they think is actual fact.
An internal doc.ument leaked in 1999 described their objectives as ""to defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies". They want to use Intelligent Design (which is what they dub their pseudo-science) as a wedge to separate actual science from its allegiance to "atheistic naturalism".
In other words, they fear that teaching FACTS to children will drive them away from religion.
I'm not a Christian Scientist. I'm Baptist.
@Sharphace–Christian Scientists do not teach intelligent design. They believe that life exists independent of matter and that true life is entirely spiritual. They believe that material existence is essentially a dream with its own set of laws of which evolution is one.
You still read what Topher posts?
You have a darker sense of humor than I do.
Topher is our court jester!
Topher, I have to ask, in any discussion, there are basic unwritten rules that are expected, without which discourse is meaningless. One of these is not to blatantly lie or say things that are so without foundation that they amount to a lie. To say "science rejects evolution" is squarely in that category.
Now, you may not like evolution on theoretical grounds, or you may even think you have a better theory for the diversity of life on Earth, but to say "science rejects evolution" is ridiculous. No, "ridiculous" is not even a strong enough word for it. I doubt such an adjective even exists.
I think 'dishonest' described that kind of statement very well.
Please show me where it's testable, repeatable and demonstrable. That's sciences standard.
You were given that yesterday and many times before.
Nope. All I'm ever told is that I'm ignorant or too stupid to understand evolution. Never any evidence.
I think there are aspects of evolution even Topher accepts. I think he feels microevolution, as a creationist would define it, comprises it – covers the readily observable phenomena we see in the lab every day. It can't lead to speciation, he would say. And must, I suppose, lead nowhere over long time scales.
Exactly right.
FWIW, Pro-choice does not necessarily mean pro-abortion.
Who am I to tell anyone what they must do?
Would you tell someone not to commit murder?
Can you support your argument that abortion is murder on our Consti tution? If not, then you have no argument.
Amendment 5, “No person shall be ….. deprived of life…”
@RB...........Are you against the dealth penalty? Are you against war? Are you against the repubs who voted for cutting SNAP, Pell Grants and other social programs needed by the poor?
Ok, then, RB. Find out the meaning of the word "person" as defined in our Consti tution. Hint: an unviable fetus would not fit that definition.
Ken,
I don’t particularly like death of any flavor, but the death penalty seems necessary for premeditated murderers. I’m often very critical of political warfare, but we need to defend ourselves.
I’m all for feeding the poor, but I would like to weed out some these folks that lay around all day doing drugs and making babies. Would you like to pay more in taxes so they can party on your dime?
NO RB that's why I'm for abortion. To save money. My money. I find it ironic you have no problem killing a person, yet you have a problem with abortion of an embryo that you don't know, don't know the s3x of, don't know how the child will turn out(Murderer for ex.)
I wouldn't tell someone not to commit murder because they might want to kill me. Abortion isn't murder so who cares? Abort away. Yahoo.....
A HUMAN LIFE, aka PERSON, consists of Spirit, Body and Soul.
A spermatozoon/sperm cell and an ovum/egg are living organisms but are not human life. The body naturally purges itself of unused spermatozoon/sperm and ovum/egg cells.
Although most Pro-Life advocates believe life begins at conception, the definition of conception differs from one group to another. Some groups consider conception the fertilization of the ovum/egg into a zygote during the first day or two. Others consider conception is when pregnancy begins. In medical science, pregnancy begins with implantation—the attachment of the zygote onto the wall of the uterus—eight to nine days after insemination.
Whatever the case may be, medical science establishes that the first HEARTBEAT occurs somewhere during the first 21 to 28 days. I have no doubt in my mind, at that stage at least, that is a HUMAN/PERSON.
Now, the question is: What is a PERSON?
Genesis 2:7
"7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." (NASB)
In the order stated:
Dust of the ground....Body
Breath of Life............Spirit
Living Soul.................Soul
I believe a PERSON is when all three are combined.
Therefore, I believe the first HEARTBEAT is a definite indication of all three combined, hence a PERSON.
p.s. I find it compelling that the human being one of three—Spirit, Body and Soul—is reminiscent of God Being One Of Three—Father, Son and Holy Spirit, hence the "Image Of God" in Genesis 1:26,27.
And the bowl/dish it germinated in ?
Until you can support your argument with quotes from our Consti tution instead of a religious text, you have no argument. There are many, many religious texts out there, but there is only one Consti tution of the United States. This is why our civil laws are not based on any religious text, but rather on our Consti tution.
If "We The People...." were to vote on it, abortion wouldn't be legal.
Says you or the moral majority ?
*supposed moral majority*
That may or may not be true, but that would not be based on our Consti tution either, as we are not a pure Democracy, but rather a Democratic Republic. Just because the majority supports a law does not mean that law is consti tutional.
According to polls most americans (including Catholics) support abortion. What you fail to realize is that children are not free for taxpayers. You subsidize chlidren in public school, pay heathcare when the parents can't and subsidize all social programs for parents/children.
Vic
How do you know that, the same way that gay marriage has been approved in many States? Your biased opinions mat not be shared in the privacy of a voting booth, after all the vast majority of women believe in pro choice no matter their religious affiliation or none.
What part of barely over 30% support overturning Roe do you not understand? I guess if you can make yourself believe in an invisible sky spirit you can make yourself believe that you are in the majority too...
The best telling of all is to let it be decided by people's vote on then!
Note that from all legislating issues, abortion is unique in that regard because it involves "Human Life."
Vic: "The best telling of all is to let it be decided by people's vote on then!"
You clearly are unclear on the concept of a consti tution. Look up the difference between a Democracy and a Democratic Republic. Look up the definition of a Theocracy. Your arguments are not based on our Consti tution, but on your personal faith. Therefore, you have no argument.
@VIC...........Should we also vote on wether men should have vasectomies also? If you want to control a womans body, shouldn't we control men also?
The Constitution Of the United States was based on Natural Law which the Founders believed is from Nature's God. Abortion, except for the safety of the bearer, a mother or a surrogate, is UNNATURAL. It is a life or death matter.
It is inhumane and selfish, to say the least, to even equate the life of the unborn with personal conveniences, let alone making it less.
Ok Vic has confirmed it. He's a crack head. No need to respond to him any longer. Reality has exited stage left.
Vic
You devolve into some opinion you may have what the founding fathers may have thought long ago and disregard the fact that people of today would more than likely vote for free choice for women. You want your views to prevail no matter what others think; you do not want democracy you want a theocracy.
If it weren't for Roe v Wade decision by SCOTUS, abortion would never be legal in the United States by its people, to day.
Vic
That is pure unadulterated BS, your ability to perceive anything beyond your religious bias is the mark of a fanatic. If you were in the middle east with a mind like yours you would no doubt be a jihadist.
Vic
"If it weren't for Roe v Wade decision by SCOTUS, abortion would never be legal in the United States by its people, to day."
More opinion.
Also there are often times that things are legal, that are unconst!tutional, which means they are illegal...like the lie on our money.
legal does not mean right all the time either. It was legal to own slaves...was it ever right?
The same Consti-tution that did not allow women to vote until 1919. The same Consti-tution that did not ban slavery until 1865.
Clarification:
Genesis 2:7
"7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (KJV)
So move to a country that has a Theocracy, then. We have a Democratic Republic in this country. You may not like it, but unless our Consti tution is rewritten, it will stay a Democratic Republic.
Since when protecting "human life" is not democratic?!
Protecting "Human Life" is one of the most prominent AMERICAN IDEALS.
Our Consti tution defines human life at the point where a fetus is viable outside the womb. You may not like this definition, but until you can get enough support to rewrite our Consti tution, then you have to live with it or move to another country that has a different consti tution. Again, we are not a pure Democracy. We are a Democratic Republic, which means that majority rule is not enough. Our laws must abide by our Consti tution.
Vic
You are strangely deluded about your country. This nation has been in some kind of war almost for its entire history, not exactly protecting human life. The laws of the nation allow a woman's right to choose, get over it or find a country to move to that agrees with your position.
@Vic–"Protecting "Human Life" is one of the most prominent AMERICAN IDEALS." Except when it costs too much or when it is politically expedient not to (such as when our youth are sent to fight in entirely unnecessary wars, usually for somebody's profit, etc.)
The Supreme Court wisely set the cutoff for abortion at the point of viability, when the fetus can survive outside the womb. That interestingly lines up with your "breath of life". A fetus can't breath at 21 days when there is a heartbeat... The ability to breath comes months later.
The "Breath Of Life" is of God Almighty, aka spirit, it is not to be confused with the breath—inhale/exhale—a creature takes.
Again, you make your argument based on your faith. This is not a valid argument.
Vic
"The "Breath Of Life" is of God Almighty, aka spirit, it is not to be confused with the breath—inhale/exhale—a creature takes."
False. At the time they wrote the bible, they believed them to be one and the same. It was only AFTER it was discovered that was not true did they start teaching that. Once again...they got it wrong, so you twist your interpretation of the word of man to make it more pallatable.
No, Vic. The supreme court is more powerful than your 'god' and I have proof: you live it.
vic
"A HUMAN LIFE, aka PERSON, consists of Spirit, Body and Soul."
Speculative opinion...nothing more.
Vic nobody cares about what you think. You don't get pregnant. I guarantee if men got pregnant, birth control would be available like chewing gum. If you want to prevent abortions you should:
Teach s3x ed in school
Make birth control as easy and cheap as possible
Vasectomies should be offered at no cost to men
Those are all good. The first one should be don't do it until you are married.
You act as if marriage is a plateau of perfection. Marriage means nothing. There are plenty of marriages that are total disasters. (over 60% end in divorce and I'm married).
RB
"don't do it until you're married"
That goes against nature and imposes false morality...as if $ex is something only for married people....ridiculous.
Try understanding that it is human nature to have $ex....it is the single highest instinct in your body and your hormones beg constantly for $ex.
Better to learn mature ways of dealing with nature that teaching abstinence against nature, not teaching some false morality form your immoral book.
No Problem!
And if all those fail, YOU SHOULD NOT ABORT.
Sorry to upset you vic. I bet there is an abortion happening now. One less kid to pay for. Hooray.
Your post makes you sound like a blood thirsty, money hungry psycho.
No I'm not blood thirsty. It's tough to feel for a blob after a abortion. I don't know the s3x, name, how it would look, act etc etc.
On the other hand, when people get shot. i feel for them because there is a face I can relate to. When people suffer I can relate to the pain because there is a face I can relate to.
Thank you Vic.
The Bible makes it clear that God assigns a lesser value to infants under 1 month old.
"And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, saying, "Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them."
– Numbers 3:14-15
God tells Moses NOT to count babies less than a month old.
"The Lord said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate a person to the Lord by giving the equivalent value, set the value of a male between the ages of twenty and sixty at fifty shekels of silver, according to the sanctuary shekel; for a female, set her value at thirty shekels ; for a person between the ages of five and twenty, set the value of a male at twenty shekels and of a female at ten shekelse; for a person between one month and five years, set the value of a male at five shekels of silver and that of a female at three shekels of silver; for a person sixty years old or more, set the value of a male at fifteen shekelsh and of a female at ten shekels."
– Leviticus 27
Infants have only a fraction of the worth of an adult to God.
Death Showers for Diana of the Ephesians!
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Even though I support choice, I am fine with this organization's march since I also believe in free speech and free assembly. The one thing I do wonder about and feel some concern about is the participation of the students. I wonder just how free that participation is considering the bulk of the students that attend come from Catholic schools. My concern is that some may be their as the result of pressure, whether it be from faculty or from peers. It is a well known fact that not all Catholics oppose abortion. I am fine with the children being there as long as they are not being pressured or coerced to attend and as long as those who choose not to attend are not stigmatized or shunned.
Change the "their" in the 5th sentence of my comment to "there." It was a typo.
The Female part:
He created you (all) from a single person (Adam); then made from him his wife [Hawwa' (Eve)]. And He has sent down for you of cattle eight pairs (of the sheep, two, male and female; of the goats, two, male and female; of the oxen, two, male and female; and of the camels, two, male and female). He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation in three veils of darkness, such is Allah your Lord. His is the kingdom, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). How then are you turned away? – 39:6
The meaning of creation after creation in three veils of darkness in the above verse:
"creation after creation":
– means everyone of you is originally a Nutfah (means a semen-drop which is mentioned in 22:5),
– then he becomes an `Alaqah (means: clinging substance which is mentioned in 96:2),
– then he becomes a Mudghah (means: the embryonic lump which is mentioned in 23:14 – this verse actually gives all the stages meaning mentioned Nutfah then 'Alaqah and then Madghah.... subhanallah glory be to Allah The Almighty who Created the human and the entire universe),
– then it becomes flesh and bones and nerves and veins, and the Ruh (soul) is breathed into him, and he becomes another type of creation.
"three veils of darknesses":
veil # 1 – the darkness of the womb,
veil # 2 – the darkness of the placenta which blankets and protects the child, and
veil # 3 – the darkness of the belly.
These three layers/veils are used to keep the child protected (belly, placenta and womb).
Soul breathed:
32:7 – Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay. Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained. Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.
Our civil was are, fortunately, not based on your religion. Try quoting our Consti tution to support your argument. Until then, you have no argument.
Hello skarphace:
Which one is older? who follows whom? The old one follows the new one or the new one follows the old one?
Peace my friend...