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January 22nd, 2014
02:13 PM ET

Three things President Obama and the Pope will (probably) talk about

(CNN) President Obama will meet with Pope Francis on March 27, the White House announced on Tuesday.

The POTUS/Pope summit is already generating lots of buzz, and Belief Blog co-editor Daniel Burke spoke to CNN's Brooke Baldwin on Tuesday the meeting's likely agenda.

MORE ON CNN: Obama to visit Pope Francis in March

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Barack Obama • Catholic Church • Pope Francis

soundoff (207 Responses)
  1. nasty123

    wonder if the Pope call Obummer a Muslime?

    January 23, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
    • Mmmmmmm

      Um, why on earth would he?

      January 23, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
    • Pete

      Wait? Do you really think that the Pope is a brain dead moron?

      January 23, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
  2. Dyslexic doG

    Three things President Obama and the Pope will (probably) talk about:

    1. How they both got the great jobs they have now by pretending to believe in a magic man in the sky and a bunch of nonsense and primitive voodoo in an old book. They'll both laugh and say "How easy was that!!!"

    2. Soccer and Basketball, the superbowl and the next summer olympics

    3. the annoying US catholic bishops who keep questioning the pope

    January 23, 2014 at 10:04 am |
    • Batsh!t Crazy stuff still going on ?

      In the presidents home state.
      Home> U.S.
      Chicago Archdiocese Hid Decades of Child Se-x Abuse
      CHICAGO January 21, 2014 (AP)
      By TAMMY WEBBER and RACHEL ZOLL Associated Press
      Associated Press

      Top leaders at the Archdiocese of Chicago helped hide the se-xual abuse of children as they struggled to contain a growing crisis, according to thousands of pages of internal doc-uments that raise new questions about how Cardinal Francis George handled the allegations even after the church adopted reforms.

      January 23, 2014 at 10:57 am |
      • Mmmmmmm

        Bout time Chicago admitted it.

        January 23, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
        • Batsh!t Crazy stuff still going on ?

          Current Epidemic

          ‘I’m Not Listening!’: Mainstream Media Ignores Current Epidemic of Abuse in Evangelical Church, Instead Focuses on Stale Claims in Catholic Church
          October 2, 2013 By TheMediaReport.com

          Just last week, Boz Tchividjian, a prominent Liberty University law professor and the grandson of Billy Graham, stood before a roomful of journalists and declared that Evangelical missions are a "magnet" for se-xual abusers and that Evangelicals "are worse" than the Catholic Church at handling the problem.

          January 23, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
    • R.M. Goodswell

      this.

      January 23, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
  3. Anthony Crispino

    What three things will Obama and the Pope talk about? Is that the question?

    Well OK, that's an easy one.

    1. Gun control
    2. Gay marriage
    3. The Pope, and
    4. Religious junk

    If they have time, I think Obama will probably ask the Pope about that breast feeding thing. He's probably wondering like me when they are going to fire the canon and make that an official law for the church.

    January 23, 2014 at 1:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      That's 4. And I think number one is that often-asked question:

      Is the Pope Catholic?

      January 23, 2014 at 8:19 am |
      • Anthony Crispino

        Of course it's 4. I even put them in order, for crying out loud. Is the Pope a Catholic? What are you, a wise guy? Of course the Pope is a Catholic. He believes in the first sin, inaccurate conception, a whole bunch of Catholic things. I even checked with my wife's dentist, Vinnie, and he said the Pope is a great Catholic. Even the lady's jaw he was working on said something about the Pope blessing the sacrete, so I guess he even says special prayers to all the Catholic laborers out there. He's definitely all in on the Catholic thing.

        January 23, 2014 at 9:22 am |
  4. "Bible" Phil

    Examine the life of Christ closely and of his Apostols... Would they meet with political leaders to talk politics like the majority of the "christian" religions do?

    January 22, 2014 at 10:43 pm |
    • doobzz

      Examine the life of Alice and the March Hare, the Queen of Hearts, and Bill the Lizard. Would they meet with political leaders to talk politics like the majority of the "christian" religions do?

      January 23, 2014 at 11:38 am |
      • Fan2c

        Obi-Wan Kenobi would be our only hope for this visit.

        January 23, 2014 at 11:54 am |
  5. "Bible" Phil

    Question to think about:

    If you have read the gospels, and all New Testament, and thought about what you were reading... Could you ever see Jesus, or his Apostols, sitting with Cesar or other Governors, discussing politics??

    January 22, 2014 at 8:57 pm |
    • "Bible" Phil

      *taught

      January 22, 2014 at 8:59 pm |
    • doobzz

      Not unless Caesar was in the habit of talking about politics to himself.

      January 22, 2014 at 9:40 pm |
  6. Jesus' Beloved

    Continuing- the amazing Good News of the Gospel hidden in the genealogy of Adam to Jesus. Pt 4

    Name Meaning
    Judah – One who praises the Lord
    Perez – breaks open a way (into)
    Hezron – an area surrounded by a wall
    Ram – of great height
    Amminadab – O' my people who belong to the Prince
    Nahshon – a prophet
    Salmon – clothed
    Boaz – with strength
    Obed – who serves (the Lord)
    Jesse – is here!
    David – one well loved
    Solomon – peaceful
    Rehoboam – and who sets the people free

    The Prince Described and His Mission
    One who praises the Lord breaks open a way into a safe place that is surrounded by a high wall.
    O' my people who belong to the prince, a prophet clothed with strength, who serves (the Lord) is here! (He is) the Lord's loving gift, His payment for peace that sets the people free.

    January 22, 2014 at 7:08 pm |
    • Fan2c

      Jesus' Beloved,

      That's very clever & cute - having the books' characters' name meanings match their fictional bios.

      It's like:

      C3P0 – worrywart and fussbudget
      R2D2 – resourceful and spunky
      Chewbacca – furry, grunting, skilled mechanic
      Etc. ...

      January 23, 2014 at 11:44 am |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        Yes, it shows just how very accurate scripture is.
        "All Scripture is God-breathed, and God doesn't waste his breath"

        January 23, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
        • Pollyanna

          Accurate? Those naming examples are contrived and manipulated abstracts.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
  7. Jesus' Beloved

    The Amazing Gospel prophesied in the genealogy of Adam to Jesus. Pt 3.

    Name Meaning
    Abram – A glorious father
    (Abraham) – the father of a multi.tude
    Isaac – laughs
    Jacob – as he outwits (his enemy)
    (Israel) – A mighty prince sees God
    Levi – (then) joins himself to
    Kohath – an assembly
    Amram – a glorious people
    Moses – (whom) he rescued
    Gershom – stranger(s) in a strange land
    Shebuel – captives delivered by God

    The last 6 names branch off into Moses' line, not Christ's; but clearly they join the main names code as evident by their perfect fit with the whole. And they "join" at Levi, which means "join".
    The code still reads well without these six.

    A Mighty Father and a Prince, who Save a People
    A glorious father, the father of a great multi.tude laughs as he outwits (his enemy). A righteous prince sees God! A mighty one fights! {He joins himself to an assembly, a glorious people whom he rescued, stranger(s) in a strange land, captives delivered by God!}

    January 22, 2014 at 7:00 pm |
  8. Jesus' Beloved

    Continuing: The Gospel in the genealogy of Adam to Jesus. Pt2
    The OT is Jesus Hidden; The NT is Jesus Revealed.

    Name Meaning

    Shem – The fame of
    Arphaxad – Babylon's fortress (but I will make Babylon fade away)
    Cainan – and sorrow
    Shelah – extend like a plant
    Eber – beyond the place of
    Peleg – division (at the Tower of Babel)
    Reu – A friend
    Serug – (also) branches out
    Nahor – enraged
    Terah – with fury!

    Both Evil and Hope Branch Out Like a Plant

    The fame of the stronghold of Babylon, and sorrow, extend their borders like a plant beyond the place of division (at the Tower of Babel) - But I will make Babylon fade away!
    A friend also branches out (like a plant), enraged with fury!

    January 22, 2014 at 6:43 pm |
    • CommonSensed

      Your meds off today?

      January 22, 2014 at 6:52 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        I sense you need a hug. May the Holy Spirit embrace you with the majestic and fiery love of Father. One you'll never be able to escape.

        Blessings.

        January 22, 2014 at 7:11 pm |
        • CommonSensed

          Frightening, really. I've got my beliefs and don't need a hug from you, thanks. Just wondering why you continue to post name witchery.

          January 22, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
        • doobzz

          "May the Holy Spirit embrace you with the majestic and fiery love of Father. One you'll never be able to escape."

          Sounds like an abusive boyfriend.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:50 am |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Ti-tus 1:15

          January 23, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
  9. CommonSensed

    I'm guessing they will discuss their cars and who really has the best pizza.

    January 22, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
    • Science Works

      Debunking Adam and Eve would be fun too .

      January 22, 2014 at 6:38 pm |
      • CommonSensed

        Why waste time on something axiomatic? Italian vs. deep-dish pizza is more relevant.

        January 22, 2014 at 6:48 pm |
        • Science Works

          Italian deep dish works .

          Smithsonian's Human Origins Program

          http://humanorigins.si.edu/

          January 23, 2014 at 8:44 am |
  10. Reality # 2

    Let them make it an economic summit with the cost of religion to include keeping Islam bottled up in the Mideast as a major topic:

    To wit:

    – One trillion dollars for the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.-

    Eighteen billion dollars/yr. to Pakistan.

    – Four billion dollars/yr. to Egypt.

    – The tax revenue lost to the Mormon ti-the empire. Ditto for all Christian "religions" and evangelical "non-profits". Ditto for Jewish "non-profits".

    -The faith-based federal projects supported by both Bush and Obama costing $385 million/yr. and another $2 billion/yr. in grants.

    – Giving to religious groups mostly Christian in 2010, totaled $95.8 billion and all deductible on your tax returns another loss of taxes.

    - Four billion dollars/yr. to Israel to keep Zionism in check.

    January 22, 2014 at 5:01 pm |
  11. monk

    Judgment Day—What Is It?

    HOW do you picture Judgment Day? Many think that one by one, billions of souls will be brought before the throne of God. There, judgment will be passed upon each individual. Some will be rewarded with heavenly bliss, and others will be condemned to eternal torment. However, the Bible paints quite a different picture of this period of time. God’s Word portrays it, not as a terrifying time, but as a time of hope and restoration.

    At Revelation 20:11, 12, we read the apostle John’s description of Judgment Day: “I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Who is the Judge described here?

    Jehovah God is the ultimate Judge of mankind. However, he delegates the actual work of judging. According to Acts 17:31, the apostle Paul said that God “has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed.” This appointed Judge is the resurrected Jesus Christ. (John 5:22) When, though, does Judgment Day begin? How long does it last?

    The book of Revelation shows that Judgment Day begins after the war of Armageddon, when Satan’s system on earth will be destroyed.* (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:19-20:3) After Armageddon, Satan and his demons will be imprisoned in an abyss for a thousand years. During that time, the 144,000 heavenly joint heirs will be judges and will rule “as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.” (Revelation 14:1-3; 20:1-4; Romans 8:17) Judgment Day is not some hurried event lasting a mere 24 hours. It lasts a thousand years.

    During that thousand-year period, Jesus Christ will “judge the living and the dead.” (2 Timothy 4:1) “The living” will be the “great crowd” that survives Armageddon. (Revelation 7:9-17) The apostle John also saw “the dead…standing before the throne” of judgment. As Jesus promised, “those in the memorial tombs will hear [Christ’s] voice and come out” by means of a resurrection. (John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15) But on what basis will all be judged?

    According to the apostle John’s vision, “scrolls were opened,” and “the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Are these scrolls the record of people’s past deeds? No, the judgment will not focus on what people did before they died. How do we know that? The Bible says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) Those resurrected thus come to life with a clean slate, so to speak. The scrolls must therefore represent God’s further requirements. To live forever, both Armageddon survivors and resurrected ones will have to obey God’s commandments, including whatever new requirements Jehovah might reveal during the thousand years. Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day.

    Judgment Day will give billions of people their first opportunity to learn about God’s will and to conform to it. This means that a large-scale educational work will take place. Indeed, “righteousness is what the inhabitants of the productive land will certainly learn.” (Isaiah 26:9) However, not all will be willing to conform to God’s will. Isaiah 26:10 says: “Though the wicked one should be shown favor, he simply will not learn righteousness. In the land of straightforwardness he will act unjustly and will not see the eminence of Jehovah.” These wicked ones will be put to death permanently during Judgment Day.—Isaiah 65:20.

    By the end of Judgment Day, surviving humans will have “come to life” fully as perfect humans. (Revelation 20:5) Judgment Day will thus see the restoration of mankind to its original perfect state. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Then a final test will take place. Satan will be released from his imprisonment and allowed to try to mislead mankind one last time. (Revelation 20:3, 7-10) Those who resist him will enjoy the complete fulfillment of the Bible’s promise: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) Yes, Judgment Day will be a blessing to all faithful mankind!

    * Regarding Armageddon, please see Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1, pages 594-5, 1037-8, and chapter 20 of Worship the Only True God, both published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    January 22, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
    • Lawrence of Arabia

      ...but you skipped over the part of Revelation 20 where it reads "and all those whose names were not found written in the book of life were thrown into the lake of fire..."

      January 22, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
      • Tom, Tom, the Other One

        What sort of monster would do such a thing? That is beyond evil.

        January 22, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • sam stone

          The monster created by ancient, superst-i-tous man

          January 22, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Only a truely wicked person would let wicked men go unpunished.

          January 22, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, the Other One

          What sort of person dreams up what should be done to wicked people and comes up with eternal torment in a lake of fire?

          January 22, 2014 at 9:17 pm |
        • sam stone

          only a vindictive pr1ck would punish someone who lacks free will

          and only a snivelling sycophant worships such a pr1ck

          January 22, 2014 at 9:30 pm |
      • Science Works

        LoA this will be good for you – Enjoy !

        Neil deGrasse ­Tyson Parade Magazine Behind the Scenes Shoot

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVnToaNq0hI#t=0

        January 22, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
      • CommonSensed

        LoA – Wait, who writes the book? And is it absolute or subject to interpretation?

        January 22, 2014 at 6:51 pm |
    • CommonSensed

      I'd rather use Sean of the Dead as a reference.

      January 22, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        let's go to the Winchester!

        January 23, 2014 at 9:56 am |
  12. Reality # 2

    And how much is this trip costing the taxpayers? Time we start showing some fiscal restraint via good example !!!

    January 22, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
    • Liz the First

      Sir or ma'am, the heads of state meet other heads of state all the time. Were you this outraged at the other POTUS's met with the firmer Popes? The previous met with both JPII AND Benedict. Or is it only this POTUS that you're irate with? Your last sentence tells me it is.
      Every President since Eisenhower has met the Pope. Some multiple times. The next one will, also.

      January 22, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Previously, we were not $16 trillion in debt. And the pope is the head of crumbling "state". Said "state" will be non-existent in fifty years bankrupted by scandals and flawed history and theology. So why should Obama waste his time.

        January 23, 2014 at 12:33 am |
        • Reality # 2

          Oops, make that "the head of a crumbling "state".

          January 23, 2014 at 12:37 am |
        • tallulah13

          We can still afford diplomacy, chicken little. The sky isn't falling yet.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:39 am |
        • Reality # 2

          "Henny Penny, also known as Chicken Licken or Chicken Little, is a folk tale with a moral in the form of a c-umulative tale about a chicken who believes the world is coming to an end. The phrase "The sky is falling!" features prominently in the story, and has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent. Versions of the story go back more than 25 centuries, and it continues to be referenced in a variety of media."

          But the sky is falling rapidly on Christianity so Henny got it right in that regard.

          And then there is this in support of Henny Penny's views:

          What we do know: (from the fields of astrophysics, biology, biochemistry, archeology, nuclear physics, geology and the history of religion)

          1. The Sun will burn out in 3-5 billion years so we have a time frame.

          2. Asteroids continue to circle us in the nearby asteroid belt.

          3. One wayward rock and it is all over in a blast of permanent winter.

          4. There are enough nuclear weapons to do the same job.

          5. Most contemporary NT exegetes do not believe in the Second Coming so apparently there is no concern about JC coming back on an asteroid or cloud of raptors/rapture.

          6. All stars will eventually extinguish as there is a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the universe. When this happens (100 trillion years?), the universe will go dark. If it does not collapse and recycle, the universe will end.

          7. Super, dormant volcanoes off the coast of Africa and under Yellowstone Park could explode cataclysmically at any time ending life on Earth.

          8. Many of us are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan.

          Bottom line: the skies will start to fall between now and 3-5 billion CE. The universe apocalypse, 100 trillion years?

           http://www.universetoday.com/18847/life-of-the-sun/

          solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Asteroids‎

          http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/30/us/wus-supervolcanoes-yellowstone

          Search for Paul, book by Professor JD Crossan

          Rabbi Paul, book by Professor Bruce Chilton

          https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

          http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/study-finds-star-formation-declining-throughout-the-universe/

          January 23, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          "Henny Penny, also known as Chicken Li-cken or Chicken Little, is a folk tale with a moral in the form of a c-umulative tale about a chicken who believes the world is coming to an end. The phrase "The sky is falling!" features prominently in the story, and has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a h-ysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent. Versions of the story go back more than 25 centuries, and it continues to be referenced in a variety of media."

          But the sky is falling rapidly on Christianity so Henny got it right in that regard.

          And then there is this in support of Henny Penny's views:

          What we do know: (from the fields of astrophysics, biology, biochemistry, archeology, nuclear physics, geology and the history of religion)

          1. The Sun will burn out in 3-5 billion years so we have a time frame.

          2. Asteroids continue to circle us in the nearby asteroid belt.

          3. One wayward rock and it is all over in a blast of permanent winter.

          4. There are enough nuclear weapons to do the same job.

          5. Most contemporary NT exegetes do not believe in the Second Coming so apparently there is no concern about JC coming back on an asteroid or cloud of raptors/rapture.

          6. All stars will eventually extinguish as there is a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the universe. When this happens (100 trillion years?), the universe will go dark. If it does not collapse and recycle, the universe will end.

          7. Super, dormant volcanoes off the coast of Africa and under Yellowstone Park could explode cataclysmically at any time ending life on Earth.

          8. Many of us are part Neanderthal and/or Denisovan.

          Bottom line: the skies will start to fall between now and 3-5 billion CE. The universe apocalypse, 100 trillion years?

           http://www.universetoday.com/18847/life-of-the-sun/

          solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Asteroids‎

          http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/30/us/wus-supervolcanoes-yellowstone

          Search for Paul, book by Professor JD Crossan

          Rabbi Paul, book by Professor Bruce Chilton

          https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

          http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/study-finds-star-formation-declining-throughout-the-universe/

          January 23, 2014 at 12:21 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Oops, I apologize for the double posting. Tis a matter of the dumb, "secret" word fragment filter and the disappearance of the "Posting" icon.

          January 23, 2014 at 12:25 pm |
  13. Lawrence of Arabia

    Why don't they talk about how catholicism explains justification versus how the Bible explains justification... That would be fun.

    January 22, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • Cpt. Obvious

      No matter what sort of Christian you are and what you believe, you can always find another Christian who will disagree. There's no way to tell which interpretation is correct, you see. It's not like math or chemistry where the answer is obvious and can be proved.

      January 22, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
      • Lawrence of Arabia

        "No matter what sort of Christian you are and what you believe, you can always find another Christian who will disagree.
        -------–
        That's just it though, Catholicism isn't a Christian denomination.

        There's no way to tell which interpretation is correct, you see. It's not like math or chemistry where the answer is obvious and can be proved."
        --------–
        That's why you don't "interpret the Bible," you read it. And the determination for truth is the Bible itself.

        January 22, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          L of A,
          Of course catholicism is a christian sect. Presuming you're a variety of protestant, you broke away from the RCC.

          January 22, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
        • Liz the First

          Chris·tian
          ˈkrisCHən/
          adjective
          1.
          of, relating to, or professing Christianity or its teachings.
          "the Christian Church"
          noun
          1.
          a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

          Catholics are Christians. Sorry.

          big·ot·ed
          ˈbigətid/
          adjective
          1.
          having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

          Example used in a sentence: Lawrence of Arabia is bigoted against Catholics.

          January 22, 2014 at 5:29 pm |
        • Cpt. Obvious

          LofA. Ultrafail. The bible, like any book longer than one made of four pages of cardboard for infants, requires interpretation. That's why so many Christians think you are wrong in your beliefs and why you think so many Christians (like Catholics) are wrong on their beliefs. Unlike math or chemistry, you christards have no measurable way of knowing who is more or less accurate.

          Here's a mild one: Do you think women should cover their heads and keep silent in church?

          January 22, 2014 at 6:15 pm |
        • CommonSensed

          LoA – So the bible is to be taken literally as you say, not interpreted, correct? If so, which bible rev is correct?

          January 22, 2014 at 6:27 pm |
        • lngtrmthnkr

          Lawrence, how come theBible says in several places that the wise will understand.or let those with wisdom understand. We areto read and understand and interpret what is written and what is implied. The relationship with Jesus is the spirit of truth and prophesy and the comforter when he comes brings understanding. We were given a brain for a reason and it is to use it to think with the wisdom we were given by God. If you weren't given wisdom, it's time to ask for it.

          January 22, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Lawrence
          What is the million names of god are you talking about?
          Catholicism is the oldest and largest denomination in all of Chistendom.
          Every other sect is a mere offshoot. You can argue mythological minutiae all you want, but the Catholics literally defined Christianity for over 1,000 years.

          January 23, 2014 at 8:40 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          To all those who think that catholics are Christians, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
          Here's proof – what is salvation / justification? Look at how differently the catholic church defines it from what the Bible says that it is...

          In short, catholicism says that justification is a result of and follows sanctification, thereby making salvation a result of works, but Ephesians 2:8-9 and many other passages refute this ancient heresy.

          And Catholicism may have attempted to define what Christendom was for many years, but in fact, it was an apostate belief that gained in popularity because it became a means of making a few people very wealthy...

          January 23, 2014 at 10:06 am |
        • midwest rail

          "...became a means of making a few people very wealthy...'
          Just like Osteen, Warren, the Roberts family, Dollar, the Schuller family, etc.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:12 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Midwest,
          And like the papists, those people have also become apostate. I have HUGE issues with those teachers in the "word-faith" movement...

          January 23, 2014 at 10:16 am |
        • ME II

          "To all those who think that catholics are Christians, I'm sorry, but you're wrong."

          Where's @Bill Deacon when you need him?

          January 23, 2014 at 10:17 am |
        • midwest rail

          They are evangelical Christians. Distance yourself from them all you wish, but they are just like you.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:17 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "They are evangelical Christians. Distance yourself from them all you wish, but they are just like you."
          -----
          They may look like it from the outside, but their doctrines are hellish. Just because they are popular and claim to be Christians, doesn't automatically mean that they are true teachers. That's why we must hold every teacher against the canon of the Bible to see if they are false or not. And to say that Osteen's doctrine is Christian is laughable.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:20 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,
          Isn't this anti-Catholic rant just your interpretation? What about James 2?

          " So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. "

          January 23, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "Isn't this anti-Catholic rant just your interpretation? What about James 2?

          " So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. "
          -------
          If you were to read all of James, you would see that he is talking about our works being an evidence BEFORE MEN of our faith. In other words, our faith becomes evident to others when we work the works of Christ – that is, evangelism, preaching, teaching, and so on...

          January 23, 2014 at 10:24 am |
        • midwest rail

          As I said, distance yourself all you wish. The fact remains that they cite chapter and verse just like you do, follow the same book you do, and call themselves Christian. It is not for you to decide who is or is not a "true" Christian.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:24 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,
          ... or perhaps it is your interpretation of Catholicism?

          "The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God's grace–completely unmerited by works–that one is saved."
          (http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/why-does-the-church-teach-that-works-can-obtain-salvation)

          January 23, 2014 at 10:26 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "It is not for you to decide who is or is not a "true" Christian."
          -----–
          Jesus said that by a man's fruits, you shall know his character... A true teacher of righteousness will not teach his disciples to sin. These men do. And theirs is the greater condemnation when they teach others to sin.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:28 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,
          "If you were to read all of James, ..."

          Tomato, tomAto, chicken or egg, meh
          James seems to be saying that without works "faith... is dead", so perhaps works are required, along with faith.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:32 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          MEII,
          The Council of Trent, 1545 to 1563 – convened to affirm and codify the teaching of the Catholic Church in response to the Reformation – said:

          “To those who work well unto the end, and trust in God, eternal life is to be offered."
          And...
          "It is given as a reward, promised by God Himself to be faithfully given to their good works and merits.”

          Salvation in the Catholic Church is something that one earns “By those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life and to have truly merited eternal life."

          Have they ever denied Trent?

          January 23, 2014 at 10:32 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,
          Well, you certainly have your Catholic-haters hat on this morning.

          I don't know the details of Catholic doctrine and, I suspect, neither do you, but those quotes may simply be an acknowledgment of a lifetime of faith, as evidenced by works, not a statement that one can gain salvation through works.

          As with any theological assertion, it is just a matter of interpretation without any method of verification. In this case, you are interpreting both the Bible and Catholic doctrine, so, of course, you will get the answer you want. Congrats.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:40 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "I don't know the details of Catholic doctrine and, I suspect, neither do you"
          -----–
          If you're admitting ignorance on the subject, then why do you feign authority on the subject? As for myself, I have spent over 2 decades in deep theological study, so, don't as.sume what I do or do not know on the matter. Especially when I quote the papists themselves on their own doctrine.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:48 am |
        • midwest rail

          ...I quote the papists themselves on their own doctrine. "
          As did he, which you conveniently ignored.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:51 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,

          "When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight."
          (Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525.- as quoted at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm )

          January 23, 2014 at 10:52 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "since he could reject it"
          -----–
          And in this quotation, we have the papists rejecting the sovereignty of God.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:00 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,
          "If you're admitting ignorance on the subject, then why do you feign authority on the subject?"

          I admit a lack of authority, not ignorance, as I suspect you should as well. Are you claiming to be an authority on Catholic doctrine? If so, what are you qualifications? (2 decades of "deep" theological study, but is that in Catholic theology or your own variation of theology? )

          Quote-mining is not quoting "their own doctrine," it's quote pieces of their doctrine.

          "And in this quotation, we have the papists rejecting the sovereignty of God."

          Oh please... Isn't that the whole point of "free-will", man's ability to reject God? Supposedly man can reject God only because God allows it. How can you possibly think that Catholic doctrine rejects the sovereignty of God?

          January 23, 2014 at 11:05 am |
        • ME II

          Wow, the similarities between Protestant-Catholic hatred and Sunni-Shia hatred is amazing.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:10 am |
        • ME II

          "Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life"

          http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

          January 23, 2014 at 11:14 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          MEII,
          First, I don't hate Catholics... I am merely picking up the same banner first held by Martin Luther, then people like John Calvin, in showing that catholicism has gone apostate from the word of God. That's not hateful, that's the most loving thing someone can do.

          Next, man's will is not free. Man's will is captive to sin, and it is not us who choose Christ, but He who chooses us. However, the Bible also teaches us that we are also accountable for our sins.

          I cannot go into a lot of detail expounding this topic in this forum, but read "The Bondage of the Will," By Martin Luther, and "The Freedom of the Will," by Jonathan Edwards, and they will do a good job of explaining the idea of concurrence.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:16 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          MEII,
          You're only making my point by quoting the vatican...

          January 23, 2014 at 11:18 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia,
          Fair enough, although I thought that Luther's original objective was to reform the Catholic Church away from it's incorrect implementation by the people in the church.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:23 am |
        • ME II

          @Lawrence of Arabia
          "You're only making my point by quoting the vatican..."

          Obviously, I disagree.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:30 am |
        • Pete

          Trying to claim that Catholics aren't Christians seems like the height of stupidity to me. Do they believe that Jesus died for their sins? Yes. So they are Christians everything else is just minor details.

          January 23, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
      • Lawrence of Arabia

        Besides, it is the duty of every Christian to be always reforming – Semper Reformanda!

        “Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei”
        “The church Reformed and always reforming according to the Word of God.”

        The church must continually re-examine itself in order to maintain its purity of doctrine and practice (Deuteronomy 7:6-11, Ephesians 2:1-10, Luke 18:9-14)

        January 22, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • Lemme guess

          This is from your flavor of Christianity, yes?

          January 22, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
        • sam stone

          You got to remember that Larry of Arabia is the one to determine who the REAL christians are. Just ask him

          January 22, 2014 at 6:10 pm |
        • Liz the First

          No true Scotsman, eh? He already failed regarding Catholics.

          January 22, 2014 at 9:39 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "This is from your flavor of Christianity, yes?"
          ---–
          No... It comes from the Bible. I just listed scriptures attesting to the idea of constant reform.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:17 am |
        • Topher

          Extremely well done, dude. All of it.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:31 am |
        • Madtown

          No... It comes from the Bible
          ----
          Which of the many versions? You say the bible isn't to be interpreted, just read. Isn't it just simple logic, that many different versions means there are many interpretations? Which is correct?

          January 23, 2014 at 10:39 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Topher,
          For the last 3 weeks I've been listening to an audio book of Calvin's "Insti.tutes," so I've been a bit fired up of late! The bad news is that I still feel like I'm nailing jello to a wall in this blog.... Still, it's not our place to make anyone believe, it's just our place to "preach the word, in season and out of season." And I always feel it's "out of season" in these blogs, but that's all the more reason to preach harder!

          January 23, 2014 at 10:43 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Madtown,
          You're confusing "interpretation" with "translation." Because Hebrew is a bit difficult to translate directly into English, sometimes there are a couple of different ways of saying the same thing... In the various translations of the texts, it basically amounts to "Lord Jesus" and "Christ the Lord." They say the same thing, but in slightly different ways.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:45 am |
        • Madtown

          Ok. Which one do you prefer, and why do you prefer it? Are the others legitimate? How is one to know which variation to place faith in?

          January 23, 2014 at 10:48 am |
        • In Santa we trust

          L of A,
          This is one of the major problems with religion – Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, etc. all believe in Jesus and claim to follow the bible. Yet they all have different interpretations of what that means and claim that only they are right. You don't get to decide which broad categories are not christian – by definition they all are.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:55 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          "Ok. Which one do you prefer, and why do you prefer it? Are the others legitimate? How is one to know which variation to place faith in?"
          -------
          Well, personally I use the NASB or the ESV because they tend to be more of a literal translation, the downside is that sometimes there a little more difficult to read as they are formal equivalencies. Then there are paraphrases like the KJV that tend to read a little better but are not as literal. I don't dislike any Christian translation, but I use different ones for different reasons.

          I would stay away from books like the NWT though, as this and others like them were written specifically to support a cultic doctrine.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:57 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          In Santa,
          I don't decide, the Bible does... "To the law and to the testimony! If they speak not what is according to these, it is because they have no light." (Isaiah 8:20)

          January 23, 2014 at 10:58 am |
        • sam stone

          I dare say that we are blessed, by jeebus himself, to have someone as obviously godly as larry of arabia to tell us who are REAL christians. Thank you, larry, thank you. I am going to mark this day down on my calendar that we got to witness your prophecy.

          Now, you slack jawed southern fried yokel, go home and get your fvcking shinebox

          January 23, 2014 at 11:57 am |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          Sam,
          So with your disgusting ad hominem you're proving you are a better man?

          January 23, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • sam stone

          So, Larry, with your endless parroting of "scripture", pompousness of claiming to know who are the REAL CHRISTIANS and warnings of lakes of fire, you are?

          Punishing people for actions when they do not have free will is not justice, it is bloodthirstyness

          January 23, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
        • sam stone

          Come on, Larry....are you demonstrating how christ-like you are by dismissing millions of others of people for not being as christian as you?

          Can you be anymore pompous?

          January 23, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • sam stone

          Lastly, larry, i am not claiming to be a better man, or more christ-like

          I am here to ridicule people who post ridiculous things

          You and gopher are at the top of the list, with austin not far behind

          If you don't want to open your blather up to ridicule, then do not post on a public forum

          January 23, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • In Santa we trust

          L of A,
          I was hoping that you'd exrapolate to the broader point. Each sect and maybe each person has their own interpretation and each therefore believe it is the correct interpretation. You can't all be right – why are you so dogmatic about what being a christian entails. All the other sects believe they are good and true christians (and I'm sure that applies across all faiths).

          January 23, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
    • doobzz

      Why don't they talk about how the Wizard of Oz explains justification versus how the Willie Wonka explains justification... That would be fun.

      January 23, 2014 at 11:41 am |
  14. Jesus' Beloved

    The genealogy from Adam to Jesus reveals an amazing prophecy of the Gospel. Remember, the OT is Jesus Hidden, the NT is Jesus Revealed.

    Name Meaning
    God – The God
    Adam – Man
    Seth is appointed
    Enosh a mortal man of
    Kenan sorrow is born
    Mahalalel The Glory of God
    Jared shall come down
    Enoch instructing/teaching that
    Methuselah His death shall bring
    Lamech those in despair
    Noah comfort and rest

    The Promise to Fallen Man:
    The God-Man is appointed; a man of sorrow is born! The Glory of God shall come down from heaven and teach men that by means of His death He shall bring comfort and rest to those who mourn.

    January 22, 2014 at 4:00 pm |
    • igaftr

      JB (the self exhalted one)

      Pure opinion and speculation.

      You will likely be re-incarnated as a dung beetle for your arrogance.( and exhalting one's self)

      January 22, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        It would be nice if you thought a bit more about what you are writing before posting it.

        A simple search will give the meanings of the names– so what is speculative about writing what a name means?
        There are no opinions when it comes to the meaning of a name or word- the meaning is what it is. If the meaning of the name was changed to fit an agenda, then you'd have a point. You clearly don't, and choose to be against something you clearly didn't take the time to read or understand.

        Hatred has it's roots in fear my friend. You have nothing to fear from me.
        God Bless.

        January 22, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
        • sam stone

          What makes you think they hate you?

          Is it the vaunted Christian Persecution Complex rearing its ugly head

          You are not hated, you are pitied. I would think you would know the difference by now

          January 22, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          I thoroughly reject your pity. I am highly favored, deeply loved, and greatly blessed - not because of who I am, but because of whose I am.
          I'm already accepted and loved by Christ, so rejection or what others think of me has no bearing on me; because it's not I that live but Christ who lives in me and thru me.

          May you experience the great love and divine favor of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
          Blessings.

          January 22, 2014 at 8:29 pm |
        • sam stone

          Reject it all you want.

          Those who feel they need a savior are snivelling cowards

          And, you are a pompous a-s-s

          January 23, 2014 at 5:03 am |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions.....our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

          Wisdom teaches – "Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult: whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning. If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you; if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.

          Have a safe, blessed and prosperous day.

          January 23, 2014 at 9:26 am |
        • igaftr

          You exhalt yourself in your name. I don't bother reading past that because what you write is meaningless to all except you, since you write things based on a fictional work. You may as well write a narrative about Harry Potter, same thinig.

          Jesus would have an issue with the name you chose, because you chose it to show yourself as better than others, thus self exhaltation.

          January 23, 2014 at 9:31 am |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          When you boast of YOUR love for the Lord, that is exalting one's self, and being full of pride. When one boasts of the LORD's love for them, they're exalting the one who loves them and are humbling themselves to the fact that, it's not their love but the Lord's love. There's a huge difference and I hope you see it.

          In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Hence the name.

          God loves you and every single person on this earth just as much as he loves me. It's not about me.... it's all about Him, and when you're all about Him, He's all about You.

          Blessings.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:11 am |
        • igaftr

          Your lord never said to you that he loves you....that is presumption on your part.
          You think jesus loves you, you don't know.
          I believe quetzlcoatl is angry with you for worshipping a false god.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:18 am |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          First, you have to understand what a God is: A provider, protector, healer, etc.
          the acts of God and the glory of God are one; they are inseparable. Consider what that means—you do not have a God who is Jehovah-Rapha but fails to heal. You do not have a God who is Jehovah-Shalom but fails to bring peace. You do not have a God who is Jehovah-Jireh but fails to provide.
          • I will call on the name of Jehovah-Tsidkenu: the Lord my righteousness; pure in action, morally perfect.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Mishpat: the Lord our justice; the unbiased, impartial One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Checed: the Lord who is merciful; the Lord, loving, kind, courteous; the overlooking One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Mekaddesh: the Lord who sanctifies; the pure One, who is clean without stain.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Magen: the Lord our shield; the protecting, hiding overshadowing One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Shalom: the Lord is peace; the calm, content, preparing One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Shamah; the Lord is there; the patient, revealing, disclosing One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Rapha: the Lord is healing; the creating, righteous, restorative One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Jireh: the Lord provides; the knowing, seeing, giving One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Nissi: the Lord our victorious banner; the offensive (advancing) One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Rohi: the Lord our Shepherd; the strong, leading, protecting One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Ahavah: the Lord is love, patient and kind; the caring, empathetic One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Elohim: the Lord is worthy of worship; the glorious, incomparable, all-powerful One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Qanna: the Lord is jealous; the love-stricken jealous One, who is angry on my behalf.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Elyon: the Lord and supreme God; Deliverer of all that exists.
          • I will call on Jehovah-El Olam: the Lord is eternal; the uncaused, self-creating, self-existing One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Kadesh: the Lord who is holy; the pure, undefiled and uncompromised One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Shaddai: the Lord is mighty; the omnipotent, all-powerful One, infinite in strength.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Owr: the Lord is light; the luminous, glowing, radiant One.
          • I will call on Jehovah-Kabod: the Lord of weighty glory; the rich and splendorous One.

          Actually, I know for a truth that Jesus Loves Me. God is Love.
          For God SO LOVE the world that He gave His only begotten Son.
          God loves us (me) so much, we are (I am) worth to Him, Jesus.
          Father created us (me) to be light, love, and life. We are His children, His beloved.

          My God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Israel.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:50 am |
        • igaftr

          JB (the self exhalted)

          First, you have to understand what god is.
          God is the creation of men ( actually thousands of gods), created to explain that which man does not know. He/she/it is the product of men's imaginations in answer to his own ignorance.

          Be honest and you will agree that is the way you see the other thousands of gods, yours is just one more on the pile.

          The rest of what you post is just extrapolating on speculation that god actually exists, where you do not know.
          The rest of your post, and all of your other posts just show intense delusion.

          January 23, 2014 at 11:14 am |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          I will agree with you that man is ignorant.
          God created man... and not the other way round. A person's words are very important- as words have a creative power/force behind them.
          If you don't believe me... keep telling yourself the same thing, over and over. Eventually, those words will fall into your heart, and as a man thinks, so he becomes. (as you think, so you become). This is because when you believe in your heart and say with your mouth, you can change things in the physical.
          You should try this deliberately sometime. Prove it to yourself.

          For me there is only one God. The creator of the universe. El Elyon. As I said above, there are many facets to God- the names and natures of which I gave above.

          The highest form of revelation is Wisdom, but many do not have a mind that understands nor a heart that receives.

          January 23, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
        • sam stone

          man created god, JB

          man created heaven, man created hell, man created sin and redemption

          all man made concepts

          January 24, 2014 at 9:33 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      o A lot of the core prophecies "fulfilled" by Jesus are up for debate.
      For example: They say that Jesus being born of a virgin fulfills the Isaiah 7:14prophecy.
      However, the Hebrew term in Isaiah “almah” which means a “young woman”. "Virgin" is a mistranslation.
      The Messiah must be from David's line, but tribal line cannot be passed on through adoption, therefore Jesus cannot be "son of David" through Joseph.
      Tribal line does not pass through the mother either – and even if it did, Mary was not descended of David through Solomon.

      And don't forget that the Jewish culture had Messiah fever 2,000 years ago. There were MANY claimaints to the Messiah role like Simon of Peraea, Athronges, Menahem ben Judah, Vespasian, Simon bar Kokhba, etc. ad nauseum.

      January 23, 2014 at 10:33 am |
  15. Jesus' Beloved

    The Three 3 Levels of the Spirit (summarized):

    1. Residue of the Spirit (Law and Prophets)
    2. Earnest of the Spirit (Pentecost)
    3. Fullness of the Spirit

    The first two have already happened. When this last firmament is removed by Wisdom's release of the Fullness of the Spirit, we will observe God face to face.

    2Cor 3:17-18 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass (mirror) the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Blessings, blessings to you all.

    January 22, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
    • igaftr

      You will never acheive enlightenment until your remove the desire of your religion from your life.

      January 22, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        We have the Spirit of Wisdom (Holy Spirit) and revelation for a reason.

        January 22, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
        • igaftr

          JB (the self exhalted)

          No...you BELIEVE you have it, but nothing to verify it.
          Opinion...nothing more

          January 22, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          You are correct, I believe I have the Spirit of Wisdom (Holy Spirit) and I do.
          You do not believe you have it, and obviously you don't.

          But thank God for His word which tells us: If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally. So now you know, I did nothing to earn it and therefore have no need to boast of what I didn't earn. It's a gift from my Father, and the same can be given to you as well. Humility is a wonderful thing friend.
          The humble He guides in justice, And the humble He teaches His way.
          When pride comes, then comes shame; But with the humble is wisdom.

          January 22, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
    • Reality # 2

      And exactly have the first two happened?

      After during the research on said Christianity, one of the many results:

      Only for the new members of this blog:

      The Apostles'/Agnostics’ Creed 2014: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
      and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen
      (references used are available upon request)

      January 22, 2014 at 3:57 pm |
      • Reality # 2

        Oops, make that "And exactly how have the first two happened? "

        January 22, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
      • lngtrmthnkr

        You tell a story that shows your lack of understanding or caring about a cherished individual who is believed by billions of people to be the son of God. yet you are willing to step on all those peoples' beliefs and dishonor their God . You show your true character and your lack of respect for the feelings of others.

        January 22, 2014 at 6:56 pm |
        • Reality # 2

          Hmmm, let us see what some of the experts (NT, historical Jesus scholars) have to say about the "Son of God/the Father references in the NT:

          Matt 7:21
          “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."

          Not said by the historical Jesus, but more embellishment my Matthew. http://www.faithfutures.or-g/JDB/jdb111.html

          Matt 9:6 Passage notes "Son of Man" not Son of God.

          http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb127.html

          Matt 10:32-33, ""Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; /33/ but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven"

          "Ludemann [Jesus, 344] states " this is a prophetic admonition from the post-Easter community. For it, Jesus and the Son of man were 'identical in the future: Jesus will return in the near future as the Son of man with the clouds of heaven. In his earthly life he was not yet the Son of man, since he will come to judgment only with the clouds of heaven (Dan. 7.13f) at the end of days' (Haenchen)."

          Matt 11:27 "All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

          http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb045.html

          "Lüdemann [Jesus, 330f] invokes the classic description from K. Hase of this passage as a "thunderbolt from the Johannine heavens." He notes the typically Johannine reference to mutual knowledge between Father and Son, and the absolute use of "Son" as a designation for Jesus. In dismissing the saying's authenticity, Luedemann also notes the similarity to ideas in the post-Easter commissioning scene at Matt 28:18, "All authority has been given to me ..."

          Matt 1:20- 225 (another "pretty, wingie thingie requirement)

          20/ But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. /21/ She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." /22/ All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: /23/ "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means, "God is with us." /24/ When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife, /25/ but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus."

          "Bruce Chilton

          In Rabbi Jesus: An Intimate Biography (2000), Chilton develops the idea of Jesus as a mamzer; someone whose irregular birth circ-umstances result in their exclusion from full participation in the life of the community. He argues for the natural paternity of Joseph and finds no need for a miraculous conception. In his subsequent reconstruction of Jesus' life, Chilton suggests that this sustained personal experience of exclusion played a major role in Jesus' self-identi-ty, his concept of God and his spiritual quest. "

          Mark 1: 11 And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased."

          http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb058.html
          "Gerd Lüdemann

          Lüdemann [Jesus, 9] affirms the historicity of Jesus being baptized by John, but does not trace the theological interpretations back beyond the post-Easter community:

          ... Jesus did not regard his baptism as appointment to be the son of God. The underlying concept derives from the community, which believed in Jesus as the son of God (cf. Gal. 2.16; 4.4) and located his appointment within his lifetime. In the earliest period, for example, the appointment of Jesus as son of God came only after his resurrection from the dead (cf. Rom. 1.4).

          "John P. Meier

          The second volume of A Marginal Jew devotes considerable space to a study of John as "mentor" to Jesus. The historicity of the baptism is addressed on pages 100-105, before considering the meaning of Jesus' baptism on pages 106-116. On the basis of the criterion of embarrassment, supported by a limited proposal for multiple attestation (relying on possible echoes of a Q version in John's Gospel and in 1 John 5:6), Meier concludes:

          We may thus take the baptism of Jesus by John as the firm historical starting point for any treatment of Jesus' public ministry. (II,105)

          Having established the historicity of the baptism event, Meier is adamant that the narrative must be seen as a Christian midrash, drawing on various OT themes to assert the primacy of Jesus over John. In particular, Meier insists that the theophany must be excluded from all attempts to understand the event, since it is a later Christian invention rather than a surviving memory of some actual spiritual experience of Jesus.

          Meier's discussion of the meaning of the baptism puts great weight on the fact that accepting baptism implied Jesus' agreement with John's apocalyptic message, and also engages at length with the question of Jesus' sinlessness."

          Note:A hyphen was added to many of the net references where the extension o-rg is in the address. Remove the hyphen before accessing the site.

          January 24, 2014 at 5:13 pm |
  16. Honey Badger Don't Care

    YAY!!! A POPE ARTICLE!!! It's been forever.

    January 22, 2014 at 2:34 pm |
    • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

      I hear ya, Honey Badger. Believe me, I'm as eager as you are to diversify our coverage. But when the Pope and President announced plans to meet, we gotta cover it.

      We're open to suggestions, though. What stories would you like to see in the mix here?

      Cheers,
      Daniel Burke

      January 22, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
      • Johnny Noir

        I'd personally love to see this one:

        "Good news: God Has Returned! Bad News: It's Zeus, And Everybody Is In Deep Trouble!"

        On a serious note, how come there are almost never any stories on Buddhism?

        January 22, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          I'd love to do more about Buddhism, Johnny Noir. What Buddhist stories, specifically, would you be interested in reading about?

          January 22, 2014 at 3:54 pm |
      • I wonder

        Daniel,

        I think the first order of business here should be dealing with the abuse of the "Report Abuse" feature.

        January 22, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
        • Johnny Noir

          Oh good one. I should have thought of that. I definitely agree on the abuse button thing.

          January 22, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          Sorry, I have no control over the abuse button. That's above my pay grade. I'll find out what I can, though.

          January 22, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • I wonder

          Daniel,

          The "Report Abuse" abuse has been going on for a LONG time here. I find it godsmacking that you have been unaware of it. If comments and discussions are important to you, you should get it handled. Quite a few posters have quit after spending much time, effort and thought composing posts only to have them deleted by this (or these) abuser(s).

          January 22, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
      • Jesus' Beloved

        Daniel, glad you asked.
        I've mentioned several times that you could post articles on those Living the Kingdom – that is, they disciple those they meet regardless of place, they heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons. You'll be surprised to know that some are just children.
        Anyway, I did throw out a few names to at least give your staff some direction: Curry Blake, David Hogan, Todd White, Dr. James Maloney, Randy Clark, Thomas Fischer, Bill Johnson, Robbie Dawkins, Andrew Wommack, Randy Rood, Pete Cabrera Jr., John Paul Jackson. These are just a few who can be easily found, and their work verified.

        Thanks.

        January 22, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          Interesting, Jesus' Beloved. Where is Living the Kingdom based?

          January 22, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          Hi Daniel,
          Living the Kingdom is what believers are called to do on this earth. When Jesus was here he taught the Kingdom. The Book of Matthew, always you find Jesus saying "the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto...."

          What this meant was, in order to establish the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth (i.e. Living the Kingdom) one did all that Jesus did. And what Jesus did was he made disciples and those disciples in turn made other disciples. Jesus never taught believers to make converts. His instructions were, the believers would teach others about the Kingdom of Heaven and in so doing they would use signs (healings, raising the dead, cleansing the leper, feeding the multi.tudes, casting out demons). Through these signs, others/non-believers would see the Kingdom of Heaven in the lives of believers and would themselves become believers, making disciples of others etc. thus expanding the Kingdom.

          Remember, in the Kingdom of Heaven there are no sicknesses, no diseases, no death, no poverty, no lack etc. So it's the believers job to demonstrate these things to nonbelievers.
          Indeed Jesus will return to establish his Kingdom, however, we cannot overlook the Kingdom within us which first manifests without observation Luk 17:20-21.

          I could say so much more, I hope you understand what I'm trying to get across.

          January 22, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          Curry Blake has very good teaching on Living the Kingdom. His ministry is based in Dallas, Tx. 1-888-293-6591
          John G. Lake Ministries
          P.O. Box 742947
          Dallas, TX 75374

          He has very sound, scriptural teaching. Highly recommend.

          January 22, 2014 at 4:19 pm |
        • Jesus' Beloved

          The Good News of the Gospel is basically – There is a Kingdom coming.
          Jesus taught that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Through his perfect sacrifice – Everything you've been waiting for is here (It's in me– Luke 17:20 and when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for, behold the Kingdom of God is within you.)

          We preach the Kingdom by demonstrating it (as said above – healing, providing etc). The Kingdom is God's reign over your life!
          We are training for reigning- we are kings and priests. Jesus is our King of kings and our High Priest.
          Teach, Preach, Demonstrate.

          Pete Cabrera Jr. also has good teachings on this. But all the names I've given above are all very good and can be easily verified.

          January 22, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
      • Lawrence of Arabia

        It would have been really interesting to see a story about the Strange Fire Conference back in October, and how the implications affect charismaticism within the US.

        January 22, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
      • ME II

        @Daniel Burke,
        Not sure I'd want to or not, but an article on the upcoming Ham-Nye debate might be interesting.

        January 22, 2014 at 5:13 pm |
        • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

          I was thinking about covering the Ham-Nye, debate @MEII. Looks like it will be quite the show.

          I also like the Charismatic Fire idea, @Lawrence. But it's been months since the conference itself. Any good follow-up ideas about it?

          January 22, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
        • Lawrence of Arabia

          No, I just meant it in the sense that it was a missed opportunity. If CNN can commit to a fast of catholicism, I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities for interesting articles. As it is, the pope is almost elevated to god-like status by the amount of attention he's getting.

          January 23, 2014 at 10:10 am |
      • Shadrach

        Daniel-

        Here are some suggestions:

        1) A traditional rabbi to write about the Torah(more specifically about Genesis account of the creation)

        2) An imam to write about the "creation story" from the Koran.

        Having these articles around the time of "great debate" on Feb 4th would be awesome!

        Thanks!

        January 22, 2014 at 6:42 pm |
    • Yuppers

      But not a one on the recent Vatican Bank money laundering arrest.

      January 22, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
      • CNN Belief Blog Co-EditorCNN

        My colleagues at CNN Money do a bang-up job covering the Vatican Bank. They are experts in international finance, so are well-equipped to provide great coverage.

        http://money.cnn.com/search/index.html?sortBy=date&primaryType=mixed&search=Search&query=vatican+bank&symb=TBHS%20SHN%20SCT%20PPERY%20PBCRY%20OZRK%20MSC%20MPE%20MMF%20MLA

        January 22, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
        • CommonSensed

          But why wouldn't this be in Belief? Or are crimes committed by churches not religious news? That would be akin to not covering politicians' criminal acts in the political section – which they do all the time (RJ Jr., etc.).

          January 22, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
  17. RB

    Joy, hope, and peace.

    January 22, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
  18. Todd

    In 2014 the Pope should involve himself more with Peace in the ME.

    He should involve himself more with the plight of refugees around the world.

    The pope should also involve himself with cleaning up the church and getting rid of anything that comes in the way of the Gospels.

    January 22, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
    • igaftr

      "getting rid of anything that comes in the way of the Gospels."

      Exterminate the muslims, exterminate the hindu's the buddhists.

      Your thoughts are why the have been "holy" wars.

      January 22, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
    • Daniel Price

      I agree, but he(Pope) must also focus on the persecution of the Christians around the world.

      January 22, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
      • Al

        Very good point, 2013 has seen one of the worst persecution against Christians around the globe.

        January 22, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
      • igaftr

        Are they going to apologize for all the persecution done BY christians around the world too?

        January 22, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
    • Liz the First

      Yes, facilitating help for the refugees is desired; you're wish fir another holy war isn't.

      January 22, 2014 at 3:37 pm |
      • Bill

        Don't worry there is treatment for your PPD.

        January 22, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • Liz the First

          Do you pride yourself on your absurdity?

          January 22, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
    • CommonSensed

      Why would the pope involve himself in muslim concerns?

      January 22, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.