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 Pope Francis addressed digital technology and social communications on Thursday.
January 23rd, 2014
10:40 AM ET
Pope: The Internet is a 'gift from God.' But watch out for the trollsBy Daniel Burke, Belief Blog Co-editor (CNN) Careerist clergy. The super rich. And now we can add another pelt to Pope Francis' collection: Internet trolls. In statement released on Thursday, the Pope said the Internet and social media are making people across the world "increasingly interdependent." "The Internet, in particular, offers immense possibilities for encounter and solidarity," Francis said. "This is something truly good, a gift from God." At the same time, though, all those tweets and texts and comment streams can cause people to "lose our bearings," said the 77-year-old pontiff. "The speed with which information is communicated exceeds our capacity for reflection and judgement, and this does not make for more balanced and proper forms of self-expression," Francis said. "The variety of opinions being aired can be seen as helpful," he continued, "but it also enables people to barricade themselves behind sources of information which only confirm their own wishes and ideas, or political and economic interests." There's a tinge of irony to the Pope's comments, considering that his own soaring popularity can be partially traced to the Internet and social media. According to a study released in November, Francis was the most talked about person online last year. MORE ON CNN: Pope Francis won the Internet. Literally. Whether consciously or not, the Pope has become an unlikely poster boy for how stories spread in the modern world. Photos and videos of him washing the feet of Muslim inmates, embracing a severely disfigured man and giving his pal a lift on the Popemobile have gone viral, with hundreds of thousands sharing the images. MORE ON CNN: Pope Francis' greatest hits of 2013 "Goodness always tends to spread," Francis said in his apostolic exhortation, "The Joy of the Gospel," a line that could have been uttered in the boardrooms of savvy online outlets like Upworthy and BuzzFeed. But the Pope's theory of communication seems to derive from a more ancient source: his namesake, St. Francis of Assisi. "Preach the Gospel all the time. Use words when necessary," the 13th century friar is often quoted as saying. (Some call the quote apocryphal.) Rather than "bombarding people with religious messages," the Pope urged Catholics on Thursday to listen patiently and engage their interlocutors' doubts and questions. "Let our communication be a balm which relieves pain and a fine wine which gladdens hearts," Francis said. The Pope also warned against spending too much time online, saying the "desire for digital connectivity" can sometimes isolate people from their friends, family and neighbors. “It is not enough to be passers-by on the digital highways, simply 'connected'; connections need to grow into true encounters," he said. "We cannot live apart, closed in on ourselves. We need to love and to be loved. We need tenderness. Media strategies do not ensure beauty, goodness and truth in communication." Drawbacks aside, the Pope did not argue that people should reject social media, which he said can foster unity and "help us feel closer to each other." Instead he argued that advances in bits and bytes shouldn't distract from the fact that digital communication is, at root, about people connecting with each other. "What is it, then, that helps us, in the digital environment, to grow in humanity and mutual understanding?" the Pope asked. "We need, for example, to recover a certain sense of deliberateness and calm. This calls for time and the ability to be silent and to listen. We need also to be patient if we want to understand those who are different from us."
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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The Internet is for sure one of the best invention in human's history. Pretty sure, it will end up marking time as the first printed book by Guthenberg did.
If god created all the birds, animals, fish and veggies for all our guardianship and use, why the heck didn't he think to specifically mention oilfields?
and penicillin! Imagine all he could have saved!
Penicillin? Really?
Wouldn't it have been more efficient to either not make some viruses/bacteria or give us better immune systems?
Bacteria thrive virtually everywhere on Earth – from sub-zero temperatures to over 750 degrees F (in hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the ocean), and in widely varying oxygen, pressure and nutrient conditions. The Bacteria God rules!
Humans don't do too well in Antarctica or the North Pole; or in the Sahara; or at the bottom of the sea; but many other creatures do. We get by the best that we can.
When I was young man, I inherited an Austin. It was an old A35 van that had a lot of rust, especially in the lower half of the body.
The problem that caused me to destroy it, for the sake of the World and the safety of Mankind, was that the two fixed part of the cable mountings that operated the rear brakes were situated on either side of a a rusted gap in the rear floor. So depressing the brake pedal, instead of applying the brakes hard, would instead cause the rusted gap to close.
The moral of this story is that older Ausytins can be dangerous and will not necessarily repond correctly, or as expected, when stimulated.
Prayer is the answer. Prayer heals rust, which is created by the Devil.
Well played, sir. I see what you did there.
God created everything, the universe and life in it. Of this universe is the United States Of America. God blessed the United States Of America. The United States Of America invented the Internet. May God—The Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit—continue to bless The United States Of America.
" God blessed the United States Of America."
Really, when?
that's a Mormon thing. Apparently jesus lived here for a while.
Vic
More opinion...as if we didn't already know your opinion.
Technically speaking, our country was founded by mostly Deists not Christians. Most people that came here were Puritans and such. God was added later in our history though it was not founded by Christians. I don't even understand why "In God we trust" is printed on money when God doesn't care about currency...
Money lines the coffers of the churches. The vatican didn't build itself, ya know.
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams
SInce when do trolls care about facts?
Doesn't that move the date of creation back a bit to around only 250 years ago?
It is well established that God created Earth 1750 years ago.
Rubio said 6000 and he's a Senator, so I believe him.
Heh.
There were already well-established Christian communities 1750 years ago, and Jesus wouldn't even have been born yet.
The bible in revelation says that Satan gave his power and authority to the beast ( government world powers)...
Do not forget what satan offered Jesus in one of the 3 temptations... Matthew 4:1-10
Don't forget that the bible (or any book) is only relevant to those who accept its authority
Your correct.This point is exactly for those who do... Vic seems like one of them.
Hey JW the other one I posted to you got sucked into a blackhole – it is not millions itn IS US !
Smithsonian's Human Origins Program
http://humanorigins.si.edu/
You mean, when Satan supposedly showed Jesus all the empires of the world from one point ... which would have only been possible if the earth was flat, like the NT authors believed?
Sue- how do you know they believed in that the earth was flat?
From any single "high" point, it's impossible to see the Roman Empire along with the Chinese and Mayan civilizations along a spherical globe.
Wow, that is a whole stinkin' pile of conjecture you have there. Any support?
And here I thought our vast resources and ruthless takeover of the land from the natives has a part in it.
"Had" a part
thanks yo
those who believe in an imaginary man in the sky are delusional and should be strictly prohibited from voting, serving on a jury, serving in any public office, purchasing/owning firearms or teaching public school.
it is impossible for the adherents of any monotheistic religion to be nice. they are divided, and their religions are predicate on ignorance, hate, bigotry, and racism.
tolerance of religious idiocy has to end.
enough is enough."
1. this is hate speech.
2. copy and send this page to your u.s. senators and the president.
3. she's made these kinds of statements before on these forums. copy those as well, and forward them to authorities and local and national media.
4. she is not the only one to make violent, hateful comments about Christians. every time you find one, forward it to those same people and media outlets.
5. she is inciting others to take action now. "enough is enough"
thanks. i have and will continue to do so
thanks.
thanks!
Yes it is hate speech.
So should we also send letters to the president every time a Christian tells atheists/gays/pro-choice supporters/etc. that they should go to hell?
I'd like to ask Christians why your god doesn't just appear to the world and put an end to any doubt?
He seems to be narcissistic enough and vain enough and insecure enough to want all the adoration and all the worship. Your book which you keep bleating is the "word of god", certainly sees god commanding you endlessly to adore him and worship him and bow before him and idolize him and praise him. "Oh love me, love me, tell me how wonderful I am!"
It would be effortless for him to show himself, like he seemed to do pretty regularly back in the bronze age, and he wouldn't have to send so many people either born in the wrong place or people trusting logic and science over blind faith, to eternal fire and pain and torment. Surely, if he is the loving god that you claim, he would be anxious to save all these people rather than damn them?
Are you going to use that tired and asinine "free will" argument? Or are you going to retreat into mysticism?
For me, it was actually my narcissism and vanity that stood in the way of seeing Him. Not His.
have you seen him?
I know Him.
but have you seen anything that proves he exists or is it just a feeling? Is it like a child believes he knows Santa Claus?
There is overwhelming evidence for God. But God is not a product of the natural world, so science won't prove or disprove God. God's evidence is spiritual in nature.
Why do you honestly want to know God? That will tell us a lot in why you can't understand Him.
Perhaps you have a spiritual malady?
cerner, So the only evidence is in your head? The fact that someone questions your belief does not mean that they are seeking your god.
Whether or not I believe there to be any God is not as important as to whether or not believing or not believing in said God has consequences. Which leads to the problem of which God.
In Santa we trust
No. The only evidence is not in my head. Science is proof of God.
A god would be identified by its attributes. You need to have sufficient knowledge of the One True God to be sure you have the right God, but it doesn't reveal enough for you to know.
no, sorry, science is not proof of god.
see, hear, smell, touch, taste. Is there any proof of yours or any other god?
Tom, Tom, the Other One
It doesn't reveal enough for you to know. Yes. But I can't say that.
Dyslexic doG
A lot of scientists claim science proves that something like a God authored the rules that everything follows.
cerner, Most scientists that I've heard say that mean a god such as espoused by Spinoza or Einstein – not the personal gods of religion.
There are lots of examples of scientists who believe in a personal God, too.
Cerner:
"But God is not a product of the natural world, so science won't prove or disprove God."
15 minutes later "The only evidence is not in my head. Science is proof of God."
Sooooo... which is it?
I want to know the truth.
If your god or any god is real then that is part of the truth.
I just can't blindly believe in a god because of an old book that is so obviously written by bronze age and iron age men with less knowledge of the world than any 5 year old today. I just can't blindly believe in a god because a person in your religion tells me to, as that person has massive ulterior motives. I just can't blindly believe in a god I want a sense of community.
And please don't retreat into mysticism. That is the first refuge of the cornered fool. Please keep to actual proof of your god if you have any.
sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Cerner.
Yea, I don't know what to say. I don't blindly accept those things you listed either. If you are trying to imply that is what I believe, it isn't factual.
so do you have any proof or do you simply believe without proof?
Of course I have proof. If I didn't I would be an atheist. Do you want proof? You are going to have to find it for yourself. If you honestly seek you will find it.
If you want to insist you are right and that I'm just a cornered fool who believes in a book written by people who just aren't as smart as a superior being like yourself, well then, you are ent -itled to your opinion.
"Do you want proof? You are going to have to find it for yourself. " This old chestnut. Check out "confirmation bias" sometime.
I'm sorry, but that's just a dodge. You don't have proof, you have a feeling.
It is real easy for me to say you are guilty of the confirmation bias, too. Because it appears you are.
"Cerner
It is real easy for me to say you are guilty of the confirmation bias, too. Because it appears you are."
LOL... perhaps, but I'm aware of my bias going in and try my best to not let it dictate my thinking. You seem to wallow in yours and wear it like a badge of honor. I used to be a christian, I'm well aware of the confirmation bias around "seek and ye shall find"...
You spend way too much time worrying about what Christians think.
Maybe because they spend so much time imposing their religious beliefs into our society.
it's like a splinter in my mind that I can't leave alone. I figure I must be missing something. I would love to see some proof, ANY proof of your god. It would show me why so many people believe something which at this moment seems absolutely devoid of truth and logic. Help me!
Why doesn't God appear? So you want no choice but to believe instead of finding God on your own? So it's wrong for a human to force you to believe but you want God to force you to believe? May I ask how you know that you aren't wrong? I know atheists use "The evidence proves God wrong" but want type of evidence? "The bible proves God wrong". I can't prove God using the bible, that is scientifically using equations and such. Takes time to understand the bible but basing it off of what people say doesn't mean anything. I can't prove God exists. If you can't accept that, that's your choice. That is the honest truth. Take it or leave it.
your god doesn't have to force me to do anything. If he would just give me and the rest of the human race all the facts, i.e. show himself, we would still have the free will to believe or not.
At the moment, there is absolutely no evidence that your god exists and yet you believe based on what your parents told you or what your priest told you all without any evidence.
There are lots of reasons to believe that God exists. And people that believe in God are not devoid of truth and logic like you try to claim.
Let me ask you something, if something was proven to be a fact or real in science, you have no choice BUT to accept it correct? If God proved he exists, how many humans would still deny he exists? In faith, nobody else does the hardest work for you. You do it. There's no scientist to prove you correct. It's all on you. I think that's where atheists get stuck on. Nobody else is doing the work for you. You do it yourself and only you hold the power to believe or not. God isn't going to force himself onto you when you aren't ready or willing. If you do not understand this, I'd recommend rethinking what you think is true.
I accept what is proven. correct.
the rest of what you said reads like mumbo jumbo to me. Thanks for trying though. Sorry I couldn't get it.
But apart from who's doing the work and the readiness and the willingness, can you just answer
1) why won't god show himself?
2) do you have any actual proof he exists?
I admit I cannot prove God exists. Can you admit to yourself and to the world you can't disprove God? Even if you deny it, you are in the same boat as everyone else. Instead of bashing them, why not tell them with kindness? Anger solves nothing you know.
Let me ask you something, if something was proven to be a fact or real in science, you have no choice BUT to accept it correct?
That is not true, for a good example see Christians who deny evolution.
Maybe – but at least I'd be able to make an informed decision instead of having to rely on the word of his very fallible emmisaries.
This is part of the problem with Christianity. The bible itself say humans are broken and can't be trusted and then god goes and relies on humans to spread the word? That doesn't make any sense at all to me. It seems to me that if god wanted everyone to follow the bible then every single person on the face of the Earth would have access to it.
to maximise box office takings when he finally does appear.
Geriatic Rock groups figured that out long ago.
that god, he's just like Al Gore, making spurious claims about the internet.
Having worked on many of the fundamental building blocks of the Internet for most of my 40 year career, I can state with absolute certainty that the internet is anything but a gift from god. It is rather a massive, mostly cooperative, international human effort and a great example of technical evolution based on thorough scientific progress.
What concerns me here is the the usual historical lying and stealing of the credit of most worthy areas of human effort by religious leaders seems to be back in full swing, whether it be morality, various annual festivals, medical claims, natural occurences and disasters and now the work of science.
While I've not thought bady of the new pope up til now, this has changed my mind completely. So my suggestion is that he takes all such claims, and without using a condom, sticks them up his holy rear orifce.
If only God used the same level of redundancy and error correction as TCP/IP when sending psychic transmissiosn to the Bible's authors, there would be only 1 religion.
Best comment of the day.
in other words we have a new god, science, or computer? what you are saying is you like what is perfect and without error correct?
That's not what he said. He implied that god, should he exist, is extraordinarily incompetent. Which is of cpourse what many parts of the bible also imply.
Austin,
in other words we have a new god, science, or computer? No. I liked how Doc pointed out how man can communicate to man better than God can communicate to man. That is a deep idea. Evidence? All the Christian sects that interpret the bible differently, even within each sect, the members disagree on interpretations. We see it it on the blogs every day.
what you are saying is you like what is perfect and without error correct?
The words in the bible may be perfect, but they don't communicate that message perfectly to humans. See the above answer.
the bible does not imply that God is incompetent.
if you die, and the receive eternal life, how is that incompetent.
incompetent would be rejecting salvation, where you are born dead, you die, and then die again.
as apposed to being born dead, being born again, and the dying and receiving eternal life.
there is injustice. choice, is not injustice.
pardon.... there is no injustice
better than God can communicate to man.
tell me how you will communicate to God the father, who is holy , when you are full of un atoned sin?
God has a fire attribute that burns impurity.
the comment you have made about God being insufficient in communication when you have the Word, who is Christ, and you also have the Holy Spirit available,
is borderline of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. and you think you are having a good time? The Holy Spirit is present and omnipresent. He is there in your room.
Of course the bibke implies god is incompetent, definitely by today's standards of eduction.
Really obvious : (1)The Destruction of the Tower of Babel preceded the writing of the 10 commandments.
(2) Rainbows instantly communicate the covenenant world wide. But then the communication method switches to marks on a couple of easily lost rocks?
Austin,
You didn't address my point, you merely hurled a threat. I don't fear your God's fire any more than Thor's lightning.
(2) Rainbows instantly communicate the covenenant world wide. But then the communication method switches to marks on a couple of easily lost rocks?
who said God was done communicating? are you saying the rainbow was the end of communication?
Bostontola, man can communicate to man better than God can communicate to man. That is a deep idea. Evidence? All the Christian sects that interpret the bible differently, even within each sect, the members disagree on interpretations. We see it it on the blogs every day.
what you are saying is you like what is perfect and without error correct?
The words in the bible may be perfect, but they don't communicate that message perfectly to humans.
Bostontola, what we have is the human element of humans. how do you KNOW, that the problem is what God did, and not that humans have issues with interpretation?
what you are saying is that sin is God's fault proven by different religius sects . The whole story of the old testamet, take the ten commandments for example, that they were not held to perfectly. is there a translation problem with the ten commandments?
the problem is selfish disobedience and idolatry. God was not enough , they were "set in their way"
32 When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us gods[a] who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.”
Austin,
Bostontola, what we have is the human element of humans. how do you KNOW, that the problem is what God did, and not that humans have issues with interpretation?
Communication is a two way street. The transmitter and receiver. God is the superior and the transmitter, so isn't that where the responsibility lies for accurate communication? God is omniscient, so it knows exactly how well we will interpret the message. If your God exists as defined, then it intended a poor communication, another of it's "mysterious ways" I suppose.
what you are saying is that sin is God's fault proven by different religius sects . The whole story of the old testamet, take the ten commandments for example, that they were not held to perfectly.
No. If all men had a very similar interpretation, then any faults would be on the men.
is there a translation problem with the ten commandments?
The 10 commandment are not perfectly clear. Take thou shalt not kill. Clearly the Israelites could kill their enemies. They could kill in self defense. Where the line is drawn is not clear. There are many killings that are on ambiguous moral ground, not clearly set out by the 10 commandments.
no there would not . Doc. If there was no fall, or fallen angel, or sin, or temptation, then there would be NO salvation. or religion. we would not be sinners.
Nor any atheism. Because no-one would have any idea of what you were talking about. And you can hardly disbelieve in something you haven't heard of.
yup. but there would not be prophecy if there was not sin. because prophecy is spiritual. premonition is a lie from the pit.
there is no natural premonition. something in my case, had to know the exact future through sovereign power, and then for the will of God to deliver reality in the same sense that the dream first occured.
That is proof of God.
That is not proof in the slightest.
It seems quite ironic you are trying to say what reality is, when you clearly do not have a grasp of it.
All you offer is dreams and opinions...hardly something to pin hope on.
igaftr, hey friend, my testimony is only testimony from another human being. good point do not hope in me.
But you can put hope in God's promises, because God cant take back a promise,and His character would be nullified if He did not deliver.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Romans 10:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
all you have to do to find hope, is to contemplate sin and admit to God that you need His help. Ill pray for you.
Austin
" Ill pray for you"
Yeah...I didn't get you anything either.
Save your prayers for yourself, you need them more than I, especially that only you think that there is a point to prayer.
Everything you have said is just from the man made propoganda that is the bible...nothing has ever shown any gods, spirits or any such thing exist, and the whole salvation line is the same as a schoolyard bully...create the threat, threaten people, make them think it is their fault if they don't heed the threat ( and hope they don't realize if not for the bully, the threat does not exist.)
I hope you find logic and reason some day.
Since none of these comments are passing the Turing test, I feel free to disregard them.
do you wish you WERE A ROBOT? would that be better?
@Austion,
Do you have visions of electric sheep?
"...electric sheep." Best comment today, sir. Well played.
you DO NOT, need to have a vision to receive the gift of faith. that is not how it happens.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit;
We are all humans here.
Now let's all say robot grace and shake hands.
001010110101011101010101010101011010101010101011101010001010100100101010010101010111010101
Doc...watch your language...there are nano-bots present.
Would you like to play a game of chess?
Dear Francis,
Some added information from the awesome, light-speed Internet:
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
Deleting comments only proves you're a coward.
hey buddy. Pete. I enjoy our conversations. you know my past and what i claim. I am being honest. with that , i also understand how hard it is to come to the truth. unbelief is a powerful force.
When you say , "I do not believe in God", do you understand that this does not mean He is not real, and it does not meant that I am wrong ?
When you say, "I believe in God", do you understand that this does not mean he is real, and it does not meant that I am wrong?
yes i do understand that.
Austin what you are trying to use as proof of your god is based on a foundation of lies.
Pete, what is the point of you saying that they are a 'foundation of lies", you enter the whole conversation by sabotoging it to begin with. That is dishonest and manipulative.
That's your perception and again you are wrong.
I am not wrong pete, 30 visions are evidence that the bible is a medium for spiritual activity, hopefully the majority of wich is inspired by the insti.tiution of light and truth, instead of the division of darkness.
@Pete : That's your perception and again you are wrong.
Unless you have provided empirical evidence to support your position, then you appear to be dishonest and manipulative. You come across as an angry person, rather than a reasonable person. Perhaps you'd like to think about it and present the evidence that you have seen to justify that judgment? This would eliminate the appearance of dishonesty.
(BTW – I'm not taking either side in this, just trying to help the discussion flow better.)
<><
I have probably had double that where my dreams come true which is why it's not proof of spirituality or a god, it's just a part of nature.
"Unless you have provided empirical evidence to support your position, then you appear to be dishonest and manipulative. "
I have posted it but it keeps getting deleted. The worlds largest research center backs me up.
"You come across as an angry person, rather than a reasonable person. "
Now ask yourself why you perceived that because it too is wrong.
Sorry Austin, but your visions are evidence of nothing more than your own psychosis and inability to understand what const.itutes universally acceptable empirical evidence.
@y5 i am simply explaining my experience and the power that comes from the word of God, and this is vehemently attacked.
the truth about the gospel is where this conversation should really end up. Why does it offend you to admit that you are a sinner and that God would understandably be holy?
because you don't want to identify as a sinner? because you cant handle God being a judgmental God? or you cant handle the effects and truth about the fall and what cain did?
I don't find it offensive, Austin, I find it completely unintelligible and question begging.
yellow 5 "unintelligible"
now that is easily overcome by the fact that i only speak about things that I have written down first, they are all in a stack of papers and dated..these go back 10 years.
and then the experience that relates to the dreams, is not unintelligible. what you are saying , is that i am not intelligent.
can you verify that claim? do you refuse to open up to the possibilities?
Perhaps you need to learn what the word "unitelligible" means, Austin. What you just wrote borders on gibberish.
Strong circ-umstantial evidence that there is no god (or did they all die as martyrs?)
Number of god's creations who died horrible deaths from the following diseases:
1. 300,000,000 approx.
Smallpox
2. 200,000,000 ?
Measles
3. 100,000,000 approx.
Black Death
4. 80,000,000–250,000,000
Malaria
5. 50,000,000–100,000,000
Spanish Flu
6. 40,000,000–100,000,000
Plague of Justinian
7. 40,000,000–100,000,000
Tuberculosis
8. 30,000,000[13]
AIDS pandemic
9. 12,000,000 ?
Third Pandemic of Bubonic Plague
10. 5,000,000
Antonine Plague
11. 4,000,000
Asian Flu
12. 250,000 or more annually Seasonal influenza
Fifteen out of sixteen people who have ever lived are dead. I've heard that death was not part of God's plan. Spectacular failure, I'd say.
how can you relate that to the murder of Abel by Cain??
thats easy austin.
The above info is reality, where your characters out of a book are fictional.
bostontola
Sorry, I got pulled away, but I'm back for a few minutes so I wanted to follow up on your earlier response.
@bostontola : I am an atheist and if I had strong objective evidence of a supernatural act, I would absolutely consider God.
@Live4Him : From your perspective as an atheist, why would you chose to follow Christ in the above situation?
You stated that objective evidence would be good enough for you. However, I pointed out that others had similar objective evidence and yet still rejected it. So, my point
1) Given that all objective evidence is viewed through a subjective lens, why do you think that you could overcome your subjectivity?
2) What benefit is it to you to follow Christ (given your previous condition)?
<><
There is no tangible, testable, repeatable, universally demonstrable evidence for anything supernatural.
That's why it is called "supernatural" and why all religions are predicated on faith.
I think there is. Because I keep having supernatural visions.
And I think that you are simply deluding yourself into thinking you have visions.
Your divine, psychic revelations of feline misfortune are not tangible, repeatable, nor demonstrable.
ya but the last one may have solved a crime that happened 6 months ago from a dream 2 years ago.Austin
listen to this. after my buddies funeral last week, i went to buy a few bibles for 2 people at the funeral. at the bookstore i saw this woman i had not seen in ten years i asked her "how is your twin sister" she said "she died of a drug overdose"
and just then my ex girl friends mom (hadnt seen her for 5 years walks in ) and says, "my twin sister died too".......
i get home and i had a dream from jail, from two years ago that there was a girl who overdosed, and that my ex girlfriends mom was in the dream. and this girl overdosed only 6 months ago.
there was another part to the dream, "two guys caught on tape"
and i called crime stoppers and told the cops and i personally think that this information led to the arrest of 2 guys for 1st degree se.xual assault on top of the wreckless ho.micide.
I had a dream about a house down the street, that the husband was beating his wife. I called the cops and it turned out to be true. These type of dreams have nothing to do with gods or religions.
@Austin
If you truly believe that you're having prescient dreams, you should keep an online dream journal.
When said premonitions come to pass, you'll be able to demonstrate to any doubters that you called it.
Otherwise, your tales of magic are full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing.
Or maybe you just need to lay off the Melange, Muad'dib.
Seek professional psychiatric help, Austin, I mean that sincerely.
why would i seek help because a dream that i wrote down 2 years ago came apparently true?
you have a good reason for that or just scorn? about the online dream journal. why do i need my journal online? because you cant handle taking a testimony from someone?
I am simply adding to my testimony. It will not change either. what is done, has been done.
" lay off the Melange"
lol, nice one
for you to term this as a "premonition" is presumptuous and debased as.sumption.
but i do appreciate your conversation, its just annoying to watch people with no willingness to hear what i am saying, that I know the source of my gift comes from the truth in scripture.
I'm not saying to see a shrink because you had a dream, I'm saying see a shrink, because you think your dreams are some sort of attempt by supernatural ent.ities to communicate with you and that you act on that belief. That's dangerous.
"If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia" – Thomas Szasz
"maybe you just need to lay off the Melange, Muad'dib." Or just go on and declare yourself the Kwisatz Haderach, right?
Once again Austin, your dreams are not evidence of the supernatural. No matter how often you claim them to be, they simply are not. You continue to refuse to contact Jame Randi and you continue to spread your delusions as if they were reality...if you wish to be taken seriously contact James Randi or simply admit you're crazy and need professional mental health help.
I lean more towards it being our brains being bombarded by neutrinos that interact in our dreams. Give the scientists time and they will probably be able to explain it. The point to this whole arguement is you can't use as proof of your god to try and sell your religion. You are making false claims because you have this great need to feel speical because you can't face the reality that you are not.
Pete, if anyone else read this comment from you they would agree that you are hypothesizing. I am not selling you anything .
What this is here, is the resurrection power of firstfruits. Shadowed by the festival in Leviticus, the firstfruit of the spirit, was the resurrected Christ.
@ truth prevails. James Randii has nothing to do with me right? what does James Randii have to do with God? (according to James Randii). Therefore, my experience is independent of James Randii
Austin: In other words, you know you're delusional and are too afraid to face it. James Randi would prove once and for all that you're not special, a little crazy but not special.
LOL..
Just like the complex hardware and software computer technologies underlying the user friendly GUI—Graphical User Interface—available at your fingertips to type your blog reply, the "Supernatural" is the underlying force of the "natural" of this wondrous "Creation."
Pure speculation
Vic come on now
DOS (disambiguation)
Cool, and just as soon as you send email by praying on a Bible, we will accept your interpretation. You must be joking, surely.
Boy Vic your dream of the internet is right up there with Austin !
@bostontola : I am an atheist and if I had strong objective evidence of a supernatural act, I would absolutely consider God.
@Live4Him: 2) What benefit is it to you to follow Christ (given your previous condition)?
I'm sorry, but I don't get the correlation between the two...I must be missing something?
@Mmmmmmm : I'm sorry, but I don't get the correlation between the two...I must be missing something?
given your previous condition = 'I had strong objective evidence of a supernatural act'.
But he is an atheist who hasn't been shown any...
@Mmmmmmm : But he is an atheist who hasn't been shown any...
I guess you don't understand a the purpose / use of a hypothetical question.
I guess you couldn't wait to be condescending.
@Mmmmmmm : I guess you couldn't wait to be condescending.
I'm not condescending, but just accepting where you are at currently.
<><
Where your at currently is at condescension. If you has merely said "it was a hypothetical based on an earlier conversation" I would have said "oh, okay." Pretty much why I asked you if I was missing something in the first place.
Where *you're* currently at....
@Mmmmmmm : If you has merely said "it was a hypothetical based on an earlier conversation"
Then I'm sorry. I'll try to be more clear in the future.
<><
Thank you. That would be helpful.
L4H,
1) Given that all objective evidence is viewed through a subjective lens, why do you think that you could overcome your subjectivity?
Humans have an extraordinarily good track record of using objective evidence to create new technology successfully, it's called science and engineering. Medical, electronic, optical, etc. technology works incredibly well. This use of objective evidence gleaned through subjective lenses has earned my trust (and faith in it's future).
2) What benefit is it to you to follow Christ (given your previous condition)?
I said I would follow Christ if he got internet accounts (Twitter, Facebook, etc) and announced himself and the supernatural acts that would leave strong objective evidence, then did those supernatural acts. The benefit is self evident, if there were a supernatural being that was going to roast me for eternity or love me for eternity, I would choose love.
I would suggest that the benefit is simply understanding and living in reality, or as close as we humans can get.
I agree, but if Jesus was real, those 2 things would be 1.
Agreed
@bostontola : Humans have an extraordinarily good track record of using objective evidence to create new technology successfully, it's called science and engineering.
Actually, no they don't. The purpose of the scientific methodology is to mitigate the subjectivity. Lets take the example of dino soft tissue (and no, I'm not going to discuss this further). Objective evidence that many people have tried to 'explain away'. So, any objective evidence that is contrary to popular belief is rarely accepted until proven again, and again and again – and even then not everyone will accept it. This certainly undermines your posit.
@bostontola : if there were a supernatural being that was going to roast me for eternity or love me for eternity, I would choose love.
Thank you. You've proven the point that I was trying to make. To do 'the will of my Father' means to act unselfishly. However, your motiviation is self-serving. Thus, you have revealed why God requires faith to enter into heaven – it eliminates self-serving motivations.
In short, you choose to receive love rather than give it. Yet, love only works when it flows through you. Think of a hydroelectric dam – it only works when the water flows through the system. Hoarding all the water only causes the dam to break.
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
<><
Good...don't bring up Dino soft tissue; you've been thoroughly trounced on this issue so many times that you look stupid.
L4H,
Actually...you missed my point. I didn't say science or engineering was perfect, they aren't. That doesn't matter. You asked why I trusted objective evidence viewed through a subjective lens. All the technology around us that works, airplane, X-Ray machines, Hubble Space telescope, Large Hadron Collider, the internet, weather satellites, etc, etc etc, wouldn't work if we couldn't distill objective from subjective evidence. Why can we? Because while each individual has their own subjective reality, science and engineering require validation by independent means and people. It's really quite successful. It's the most trustworthy enterprise man has ever devised.
@Live4Him,
The scientific method is extraordinarily good, when compared to the alternatives random chance or trial and error
.. and "miraculously" good when compared with prayer.
??? is right you don't want to discuss it because you have been show repeatedly why you are wrong and just don't want to admit it.
@Live4Him
Im sorry for hijacking your thread.
Can a person actually hijack a thread? I thought that's what the reply buttons were for.
So Daniel Burke changes the name of his article from "The Pope Takes on Internet Trolls" to "Pope: The Internet is a 'gift from God.' But beware of trolls" after someone points out that the pope never mentions internet trolls, and it is his own projection of what he thinks the pope said, most likely to stir the pot. Nothing gets the comments section in a tizzy more than calling someone a troll, even when they didn't.
Ridiculous. Another day, another Daniel Burke non-article about the pope's blathering about nothing.
I noticed that, as well. Nice of Mr. Burke to call everyone who visits his blog and comments "trolls".
I did no such thing. Don't see how you could possibly read that into my piece.
You have been a bit high-handed with some of us.
Then why use the term troll at all, when Pope Francis didn't, but you clearly did in both your headline and your opening paragraph?
what is the Idol that provokes to jealousy?
computer x 6 =666
the computer is more bad than it is good.
No, it's not. Without computers, biologic medicines, genome mapping, polymerase chain reaction and hundreds of other technological advances wouldn't be possible.
i know , the problem is profane content and profane advertising. ....the result of secular indiscretion..
and this the children are harmed.
Profane is in the eye of the beholder. Adult content between consenting adults isn't a big deal. That's just prissy people trying to shame others in order to control them.
There are thousands of pedo sites, yes, but even with that, the technology itself provides civil authorities a tool for luring them out, arresting and prosecuting them, with a hard evidence trail provided by their own computer.
Millions of lives have been saved by advancements in the sciences not possible before modern data storage.
IMO, that would be the parent's failure at supervision/parental controls set on the computer.
It's not like a blog REALLY attracts a troll, now is it?
do you believe the internet is a gift from God? lol.
Well, you're here, so I guess it does.
You do the same.
I know you are but what am I? Neener neener.
Beware...BEWARE...(cough)..sorry couldn't resist.
Um, no, @Doobzz. I changed the headline, on my own, because I wanted to get in both the "gift from God" and his comments about negative online conversations.
And again, it's really hard to read comments like these and think he's not talking about trolls, whether he used that exact word or not:
"The speed with which information is communicated exceeds our capacity for reflection and judgement, and this does not make for more balanced and proper forms of self-expression."
And this: "We need, for example, to recover a certain sense of deliberateness and calm. This calls for time and the ability to be silent and to listen. We need also to be patient if we want to understand those who are different from us."
Um, well, Daniel, are you suggesting that I'm a troll because I disagreed with your original headline and found it coincidental that you changed it after others expressed the same idea?
Perhaps it was just coincidence, but as a journalist, I'd hope you'd simply correct me, rather than getting petulant and defensive.
Oh Lord, my blog has been possessed by Internet Trolls! My computer needs an exorcism! Quick, call The Bishop!!!
You can't cast us into a bunch of pigs, pigs are impossible to type into.
Praise Allah for the internet. Allah Ackbar – God is Great.
And so is the internet.
I thank Mercury for the internet.
The Messenger?
Precisely.
i dont know what Ackbar means but it makes me want to puke every time i hear it. I don't mind allah. but ackbar. puke!
What have you got against General "It's a Trap!" Akbar?
You're a speciesist!
run! they are cutting heads off!!
I find that most religious fanatics have their odd ways of honoring Him.
Allah Akbar means God is Great.
actually it seems to be spelled akbar
Frankly, I have no idea what Allah Akbar means, or apparently how to spell it.
I just post it because it is so amusing to read all the anti-Muslim bigots getting their panties all in a bun.
Indeed, JoBu bless the internet, where religions come to die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqw4krMOug
"Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum".
The internet is about as much of a gift from god as the atom bomb. Last I checked the internet was invented by man not god. If you want to use the excuse well god made man and everything else then it must be a gift from god, you know because he is so good. With that logic if god made everything then god made everything else evil out there. So god must be evil as well. What kind of dumb a s s makes something and tells it you can do what ever you want but if you do what I tell you not to do, you will go to hell with my former right hand man. It's against your belief if a woman has a abortion but if your god causes that woman to have a miscarriage then it's all good. Let me guess, because he works in mysterious ways?
I don't have any particular issue with what the Pope has to say on this one, it's kind of a known that as people receed further and furhter into "social networking" and electronic communications, face to faace interactions decrease. For better or worse that's a thing, no real religious issue. I find the CNN's name for the article more than a little dissengenous, there isn't anything in there about Trolls. But, it makes people click, so there it is.
God Bless you
Thanks, Odin.
It is so ironic that although government does not make products, the US Government built one the most outstanding products of all times, the Internet.
The United States Department of Defense's DARPA—Defense Advanced Research Project Agency—was behind the creation of the Internet, which was later commercialized in 1995.
Part of the way in which teh US Government justifies exorbitant Pentagon expenditures is the argument for "dual use" technology. Stuff made for war and destuction might turn out to have aspects that can be commoditized and commercialized, therefore military expenditures are good for capitalism.
All life-saving trauma medicine was learned and developed on the battlefield
@LET
Beware of speaking in absolutes.
That beign said, your statement is true in spirit.
My father was an infantry medic, SARTech and Commandant of the Canadian Forces Medical Services School.
God Bless The United States Of America
Shush! God might say no.
Vic is enamoured with the free p0rn.
Vic's coming in the name of the lord consists of muttering "oh, g-g-g-od, OH JEEBUS!"
Vic
What do you have against the rest of the world, or the universe for that matter?
Why do you command your god to just bless the USA?
Regarding the Internet is a gift from God, I agree. God bestows His blessings in so many ways, directly and indirectly through people.
that can't use his internet creation, seems to be stuck in the first century, ever wonder why Vic?
It is the human state of mind that gets stuck in second gear when it comes to the existence of God and His wonderful "Creation" of which is humanity and its knowledge and endeavors, hence the Internet.
@Vic,
"....hence the Internet."
What?
How exactly do you tell it's supposedly from God, perhaps the devil is tempting us, or maybe it's just human innovation and coincidence.
Well, as a Christian, I believe God created everything, the universe and life in it, gave it the nature it has, and set it all in motion.
Science is God's "Natural Revelation" of how His "Creation" physically works, of which is technology, hence the Internet.
@Vic,
Well, everything except sin, right?
Broken record there Vic try again !
I've never understood how anyone can believe that a god waited billions of years for our solar system to form, then waited billions more years for life to form and evolve to the point where humans could make advanced tools; it certainly gives the impression that the personal god of religions is made up.
Only time will tell how science is full with myths anymore.
Santa you don't understand infinity. In infinity time is meaningless . Only in tthe physical universe is time aplicable.