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February 19th, 2014
02:36 PM ET

Funeral held for snake-handling pastor

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Christianity • Death • Faith • Pentecostal

soundoff (1,176 Responses)
  1. new-man

    When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul, discretion will preserve you, understanding will keep you to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things Proverbs 2:10-12.

    February 22, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
    • Ron T

      That is an excellent scripture verse!

      February 22, 2014 at 6:56 pm |
      • new-man

        I thought so as well Ron, that's why I wanted to share it.

        Jesus: "He who belongs to God, hears what God says" John 8:47

        February 23, 2014 at 7:41 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Here is another beauty...

      Exodus 21:20-21

      20 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21 If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

      February 22, 2014 at 8:27 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Deuteronomy 21:18-21
        "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

        Lovely.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:14 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          ANd do you find somethign wrong with the verse in Deuteronomy 21?? if so , what is it?

          February 23, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Oh nothing. Nothing at all.
          It's exactly what one would expect of the Babylonian war god (Yahweh Sabaoth) who tells his people to slaughter entire towns, complete with women and innocent babies.

          February 23, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          do you think that Deuteronomy 21 about the rebellious son is about small children> this is about grown adults...look at the language..drunkard.etc etc....those reflective of grown adults making poor decisions..plus thee adults usually live in the home with the parents..remember..this is not USA today...the families lived together..mother and father with their grown boys and the boys wives....etc etc

          February 24, 2014 at 7:20 pm |
        • hotairace

          But is it ok to stone people as commanded by The Babble?

          February 24, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          You mean WAS it ok then? sure...may not have been the best execution at the time..but they did not have electric chairs and death by lethal injection..which really..is just as bad..you are against capital punishment?

          February 24, 2014 at 7:34 pm |
      • otoh2

        BatC & buckyball,

        Yeah, and as if those verses aren't bad enough in themselves, Moses (or whoever wrote them) declared over and over and over again that the "Lord God" directly spake/spoke/said/ them to him!

        February 22, 2014 at 11:35 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          NICE cherry picking....that was a CASE law..it in NO way gave prmission to beat the slaves to killing them..in FACT..there is other Scripture within same book that says to LET the person go if he is injured to where he cannot work..Ie eye taken out..etc....

          February 23, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
    • derado8

      You guys make bible study interesting.

      February 22, 2014 at 11:31 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        You will like this one then.

        Ezekial 23 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prost.itute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:59 pm |
        • derado8

          Very nice. All it's missing is Fabio on the cover.

          February 23, 2014 at 5:38 am |
      • hotairace

        At the risk of having Dala The Christian Protector Hypocrite giving me yet another lecture, you might want to check out

        http://z7.invisionfree.com/Believe_it_or_Not/ar/t304.htm

        for more ridiculous and disgusting Babble verses.

        February 23, 2014 at 12:24 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          You mean a lecture from the person who has made the word "reason" a slur ....? So it ain't so....

          February 23, 2014 at 1:38 am |
        • hotairace

          One and the same. Attempts to be so reasonable and polite but just can't escape christian delusions. Criticizes atheists (me!) for not being fair but never reins in its fellow delusionals. Just another hypocrite.

          February 23, 2014 at 2:11 am |
    • fintronics

      Wisdom needs to enter the mind!

      February 24, 2014 at 9:50 am |
  2. Apple Bush

    If Christians or other religions had any proof of god(s) would they share it or hide it?

    If god is real, and they know this, they are hiding the proof. Why? I thought they were on a mission.

    February 22, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Some (and most are non-scientists) anti-religious people think you can only prove "god" via science.

      But God transcends science. Can I prove that to you? Probably not if you can only accept materialistic truths. But if you can think of yourself as a spiritual being living in a temporal body you may be able to see there is more to life than meets the eye.

      "Living in a material world
      And I am a material girl
      You know that we are living in a material world
      And I am a material girl

      Living in a material world (material)
      Living in a material world
      [repeat]
      "

      February 22, 2014 at 2:21 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        No proof. I will just wait I guess until god says hello to me.

        February 22, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Some proofs kiss me, some proofs hug me
          I think they're O.K.
          If they don't give me secular feelings
          I just walk away

          I can beg and I can plead
          But I can't see the light, that's right
          'Cause my mind is strictly logic
          I am like a kite

          February 22, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
        • Reality

          "The Two Universal Sects

          They all err—Moslems, Jews,

          Christians, and Zoroastrians:

          Humanity follows two world-wide sects:

          One, man intelligent without religion,

          The second, religious without intellect. "

          Al-Ma'arri

          February 2, 2012 at 11:44 pm | Reply

          Reality

          "Abul ʿAla Al-Maʿarri (Arabic أبو العلاء المعري Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī, full name أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري Abū al-ʿAlāʾ Aḥmad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn Sulaimān al-Tanūẖī al-Maʿarrī, born AD 973 / AH 363, died AD 1058 / AH 449)

          was a blind Arab philosopher, poet and writer.[1][2] He was a controversial rationalist of his time, attacking the dogmas of religion and rejecting the claim that Islam possessed any monopoly on truth."

          Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/resalat-al-ghufran#ixzz1lI6DuZmZ

          February 22, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
        • lngtrmthnkr

          Apple , there is proof enough if you really look for it . It may be that you want there to not be proof, then you can stay as you are, no pressure to change in any way . also always asking others for proof is a safe and easy argument because it's for each to find our own proof. God is intangible and abstract in our world , though he makes himself known to each who ask.

          February 22, 2014 at 7:51 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          longterm, What tangible evidence do you have?

          February 22, 2014 at 8:56 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          lngtrmthnkr, no I don't think so. I think you are a liar (with no proof).

          February 22, 2014 at 9:10 pm |
      • Fallacy Spotting 101

        Post by 'Dalahäst' contains instances of the Secret Decoder Ring fallacy.

        http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

        February 22, 2014 at 7:21 pm |
    • Vic

      No one can hide the truth. As Christians, we point to and share the proof all the time. The evidence is all around us, just look around.

      This universe and life in it are "Prima Facie" evidence of God.

      February 22, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        You are simply making that up. No proof.

        February 22, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        @Vic,
        Claiming the obvious as evidence of your belief is not evidence, I would think that was obvious.

        February 22, 2014 at 2:34 pm |
        • Vic

          That's how Great God Is, He reveals Himself in His creation loud and clear, He makes it so obvious that we don't have to sweat it, and all we need to do is just "believe."

          February 22, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
        • Sungrazer

          If there is anything that is obvious, it is that the existence of god is not obvious. If it were, there would be no nonbelievers.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Vic,
          The problem with that argument is that anyone can make about any being, e.g. FSM, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc.. Saying that everything you see is evidence of one thing, is really evidence of nothing.

          February 22, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          "...anyone can make about any being, e.g. FSM, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc.. Saying that everything you see is evidence of one thing,.."

          Sure. It is pretty obvious that somebody made those things up to demonstrate you can make up things. Nobody denies that.

          But that doesn't mean that God is made up like that. And employing such logic is fallacious.

          FSM, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc doesn't have the testimony of people like Martin Luther King, JR's belief. There is some hard evidence that produced real results. Reading the gospels and following letters, it really doesn't seem like those people were just making something up like the authors of the FSM and pink unicorns definitely did.

          If you asked them if they honestly believe in Jesus: they will say yes.

          An atheist can not honestly say that about FSM, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc.

          February 22, 2014 at 3:57 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Dalahäst,
          Perhaps, you missed my point. In response to a claim of ‘everything’ is evidence of God, I was saying that “everything” is not evidence of God, for the reason that anyone can claim it as evidence for any being real, imagined, or imagined-to-be-real, and have equal claim on said evidence. FSM, IPU, etc. are often used as responses to arguments from ignorance in this manner.

          I was not claiming that FSM and IPU “prove” anything about God or a lack thereof. However, testimony also does not “prove” anything either nor your examples, e.g. Ghandi.

          February 22, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          For me everything points to an intelligence greater than me. That intelligence, higher power, great spirit, author of science, giver of life – however others experience or describe it – is God.

          February 22, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
        • Fallacy Spotting 101

          Post by 'Vic' presents an instance of the Secret Decoder Ring fallacy and requests confirmation bias.

          http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

          February 22, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
        • Fallacy Spotting 101

          Post by 'Dalahäst' presents a form of the Argument from Ignorance fallacy.

          http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

          February 22, 2014 at 7:19 pm |
      • sam stone

        vic: repeating the same crap over and over does not make it any less crap. of course, if you are an evangelical, you are used to it.

        February 22, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Not unless you're a Presuppositionalist, (and have very little imagination).

        February 22, 2014 at 11:17 pm |
      • tallulah131

        The only thing your "prima facie" evidence proves, Vic, is your own intellectual laziness.

        February 23, 2014 at 2:20 am |
      • sam stone

        What arrogance to claim to know The Truth.

        Of course, Christians are not necessarily the humble creatures they purport to be

        February 23, 2014 at 7:20 am |
        • kermit4jc

          NOW when has knowing truth become arrogant???????

          February 23, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
        • dandintac

          Sam & Kermit–I'd like a crack at this if you don't mind.

          Kermit–it's not so much knowing the truth, it's CLAIMING to know the truth. The truth is elusive, and it must always be open to question, otherwise dogma winds up staunchly defended as truth long after its been demonstrated to be false. The geocentric theory is probably the classic example.

          Furthermore, theists claim to KNOW this truth, which somehow eludes the rest of us poor souls, not through any sort of hard evidence, but through FAITH–that is, believing for no good reason, or incoherent subjective reasons asserted without any sort of objective evidential foundation at all.

          Imagine if scientists were to lay the same claim to Evolution by Natural Selection in the same way.

          Scientist: "Life on Earth evolved/changed and diversified over many million of years through a process of natural selection, whereby those organisms that were best adapted to survive and reproduce in their changing environments were more likely to survive and reproduce. "

          Skeptic: "Okay, what evidence do you have to support this?"

          [At this point, a scientist would normally point to the fossil record, DNA evidence, morphology, laboratory experiments, etc. BUT, suppose he said instead:

          Scientist: "My faith, and my 'personal relationship' to the god of science. What's more, I don't just believe, I KNOW!"

          Which answer do you trust more? Which answer is more rational? Which answer is more arrogant?

          February 23, 2014 at 11:16 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          well actually....there is no faith in Gods existence involved here....yes..there is faith..but the Bible makes it very clear the faith is on the PROMISES God makes to His people....the best example is in Hebrews 11...all the examples..from Abraham on of faith involves faithin Hispromises..yet none of them involve in faith inHis existence.....just because it sEEMS elusive to some...doesn't mean it is not truth. just as example of geocenitricity you gave..to some people that truth was elusive..they wouldn't get it.

          February 24, 2014 at 7:15 pm |
    • derado8

      Some would cover it up, it depends on what god you are talking about. There is always the fear of the funny farm where there is trees and flowers and chirping birds and a basket weaver..ect...

      February 22, 2014 at 11:33 pm |
  3. new-man

    TP:
    just seeing your question.
    I know the Bible is the Word of God because "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

    Jesus Himself quoted from Scripture. If it's good enough for the one who is the very WORD made flesh, then it's more than good enough for me.

    All scripture is God-breathed, and God doesn't waste His breath.
    In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was GOD.

    February 22, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      No facts, no proof, all lies new-man.

      February 22, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      So it is the word of God because Jesus said it was the word of God. And, we know that because the word of God said so.
      Is that about it. Are you new to this blog?

      February 22, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        everytime Jesus made claims..He backed them up...with miracles..teachings..etc

        February 22, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          So you claim. Why should I believe you or your book?

          February 22, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          WHY do I have to constantly remind you guys..seek it out for yourselves..not just in the book..seek God YOURSELF

          February 22, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • hotairace

          Too bad he didn't leave any actual evidence behind, other than a lousy bit of fiction, full of contradictions and without any evidence that it, The Babble, is in fact the word of some god, alleged but never proven, of course. Enjoy your delusions but please, don't hurt any children.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Sheesh you are so arrogant...don't hurt other children....I shold report yo ufor such a statement

          February 22, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          "WHY do I have to constantly remind you guys..seek it out for yourselves..not just in the book..seek God YOURSELF"

          Because it does not work.

          Now, you'll likely say that we haven't tried hard enough or correctly.

          Why does "seeking God" only seem to work for those who have already "found God" or at least "believe". Generally, that is called confirmation bias.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          iT DOES WORK many of us have found God...so it obvisouly works..now why not for others? I cannot speak for you or them..thats something yo uhave to honestly find out for yourself..maybe you are doing it wrong..i do find people do it for arrogant reasons or like they areplaying a game with God-he doesn't play games....take the HONEST approach...be hhumble...don't play games....but that's for you to decide whats going on....

          February 22, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • hotairace

          Euuuu! Another threat! Based on nothing as usual. Go ahead, report me. Demonstrate what a coward you are, unable to defend challenges to the most basic of your beliefs without calling in earthly authority figures because your beliefs in imaginary ones has left you defenseless.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          YOU are the one who is a quack and a loser...to say "don't go hurt little children" it shows you got nOTHING to back yourself up and you have to use a biting statement as such. I DID defend it..YOu couldn't stand it and had NO other response except top insult as you did..don't be dishonest here

          February 22, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • hotairace

          You are reading a lot into a very few words, words that you can't even quote correctly. I would have thought a true christian would have agreed with my heartfelt wish for the safety of the innocent and defenseless, or ignored it, turning the other cheek so to speak. Are you hiding something?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          SIR...first of all..I wasn't ATTEMPTING to qwuote anything yet..you want a quote,,,,Ill give it,....as for the other issue..YOU are dishoinest...you did NOT like my response..and you had NOTHING else..so you had to belittle and imply I hurt children..or might hurt them...that was bad taste and if you wantto continue this thread..avoid making those kind of statements..or I shall ignore you ok?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:09 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          As I said, you blame the person for not trying correctly or hard enough.

          You claim it works for others but yet offer no evidence.

          ... and around we go again.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I did NOT....I said PERHAPS>...Thus I am NOT saying sucvh..I said I don't speak for you or others....but I do blame the person...because WE have to take responsibility..or do you not like to do that..just blame someone else?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          "iT DOES WORK many of us have found God...so it obvisouly works."

          So you claim, but where's the evidence, i.e. why should I believe you that many have actually found God.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          BY SEEKING the proof from God HIMSELF! WHY do I have to repeat myself? are you forgetful? or not really reading what I write?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          "WE have to take responsibility..or do you not like to do that..just blame someone else?"

          Again, blaming the seeker for not finding...
          We are talking about a specific thing, so no, if God does not in fact exist then I do not have to take responsibility for not finding Him... that seems self-evident.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          so you did try? You didn't find God..yet..or did you put a time limit? are you ever open to someday that He can come to you and give proof? or have you shut that possibility out? seems like youhave not shut it out seeing as yo uare coming here asking for proof

          February 22, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          "BY SEEKING the proof from God HIMSELF! WHY do I have to repeat myself? are you forgetful? or not really reading what I write?"

          Because that is a logical fallacy called begging the question.
          How can one seek evidence of the existence of an enti.ty from the enti.ty whose very existence is in the question being asked?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          then I guess science is a logical fallacy......HOW do they find out things? by ASKING questions (How does this work..DOES it work? WHat is it made of?" then they fdind the answers....YOU ask questions.....you get testimony..and now its up to YOU to test that....

          February 22, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          "so you did try?"

          Why even ask or respond? Nothing I say will be sufficient for you.

          Evidence should not be dependent on the earnestness of the participant.

          "seems like youhave not shut it out seeing as yo uare coming here asking for proof"

          I am open to new data/evidence and would love to understand something so fundamental to reality.

          The difference however, between what I suspect you are getting at, i.e. am I open to receiving God, and what I'm saying is that I would love a deeper understand of reality where ever that leads, which is not necessarily in the direction you think.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc
          "then I guess science is a logical fallacy......HOW do they find out things? by ASKING questions ..."

          (sigh) Your question contained an assumption about the very thing in question, i.e. the existence of God.

          If God does not exist how can one logically seek God for evidence of His existence?
          Honestly, how?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Let me ask you this....do you WANT to know if God exists? then SEEK..do you not care? then quit asking us to proev God...simple

          February 23, 2014 at 4:35 pm |
        • hotairace

          I didn't say you had hurt children (in the past), I asked you not to hurt children (in the future). Only you can know why you filtered my positive, heartfelt wish as you did.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          BUT WHY would you have had to bring that up in the first place? SEEMS to me since it came out of the blue..that you seem to imply I would....

          February 23, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          and in the context of your post..which was kind of sscathing..it didnt sound heartfelt or positive...next time dont add it in scathing posts

          February 23, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Hotairace, I hope you don't ignore an atheist or non-religious person that hurts children. And if I ever see you harm a child, you will regret it for the rest of your life. That is from the bottom of my heart. ❤❤❤❤❤

          February 22, 2014 at 3:12 pm |
        • sam stone

          you sure put a lot of weight in translated, edited hearsay, don't you, kermy?

          February 22, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          That last comment goes to show how much you know about the Bible and how much you know of my study techniques! YOu ASSUME I study only the ENGLISH trabnlsations of the Bible? WHAT is a matter with you people..do you even know what the term STUDY even means? sheesh

          February 23, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • Doris

          "Because that is a logical fallacy called begging the question."

          Well you can say that again. And again and again. But maybe that's too complex for some to understand. Maybe the Award Notification Dept. can better illustrate the problem...

          February 22, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
        • hotairace

          Dala, thank you! I will endeavor to be as fair as possible. Through coaching sports, I am aware of (some of) the situations to watch for and stay clear of. I have passed several police background checks, and while that is not a guarantee that I will not succumb to some belief system in the future that might cause harm to a child, there is not so much as even a vague hint that I might be a danger to a child or anyone else. Thank you for your warning but I encourage you not to take the law into your own hands, should I, or anyone else, harm a child, not for my sake but for yours. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

          February 22, 2014 at 3:51 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          For the record, I do more to help children than most people. You need to stop telling people you have a grudge against to not harm children and pretend like you are making a loving statement. I try to ignore incredibly ignorant statements like that. You've made them toward me. And now toward other people. Cut it out. I'm very disturbed that your fellow religion hating posters ignore such language that crosses the line. I'm sorry if I overreacted. I wanted you to see how wrong and stupid such comments sound like. In the future, I will not be engaging in conversations with you unless you unless you change your ways.

          February 22, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
        • hotairace

          And I worked hard to craft a respectful, caring response. Oh well.

          February 22, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • hotairace

          And I'll be watching for you to chide believers when they disrespect atheists, or other believer cults. Or should I just call you a hypocrite now?

          February 22, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          WHAT was that suppossed to mean???

          February 23, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          "Let me ask you this....do you WANT to know if God exists? then SEEK..do you not care? then quit asking us to proev God...simple"

          I would love to know if God, or gods, exist, but I seek reality, not wishful thinking, and so far reality doesn't seem to point to the kind of God you claim exists. As part of that search, science is best tool that I know of to filter wishful thinking from reality. As someone said about something else, 'It's the worst tool available, except for every other tool.'

          February 23, 2014 at 5:45 pm |
        • dandintac

          Kermit,

          "everytime Jesus made claims..He backed them up...with miracles..teachings..etc"

          So did Sathya Sai Baba. He also backed up his claims with "miracles...teachings..etc" Many say he was resurrected when he died. There are thousands of witnesses–unlike the Bible, many of these witnesses are still around so that they can be positively identified, verified, and cross-examined.

          Do you believe Sathya Sai Baba was divine? If not, why not?

          February 23, 2014 at 11:22 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          ON THE contrary! firstof all..the message was spread ORALLY first...that's where the Gospels came from..oral reports..second..Paul listed a number of eyewinteses some of who were STUILL alive at the imte of writing. the resurrection report in the Gospels is the ONLY reports that was verifiable and trustworthy..all other resurrection reports of other gods are not as reliable

          February 24, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      ""All scripture is given by inspiration of God,"

      Using the bible to defend the god it speaks about does not prove a thing. It is circular reasoning and it fails.

      February 22, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        And when he (Timothy) wrote that, it meant "all holy writings". The canon had not been established yet, so he couldn't even have been writing about the Bible. The entire business of "inspiration" hadn't even been cooked up yet.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:30 pm |
  4. Apple Bush

    What should we grieve over most?

    1. A snake handling preacher that died from a bite.
    2. A 2000 year old tree being chopped down.

    February 22, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I will throw in a third to make it easier:

      3. USA Olympic Hockey

      February 22, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
      • Vic

        I don't care about hockey.

        February 22, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          So what is your choice between numbers 1 and 2?

          February 22, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
    • Vic

      What we should mourn the most is 'murder, persecution & injustice.'

      February 22, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        You can't read. Please refer to the choices.

        February 22, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
    • dandintac

      Apple,

      I'm tempted to say 2 or 3, but as moronic as this man's actions were, real innocent people are hurt by this. There are people who loved him and depended on him. I blame religion for this tragedy more than the man. Religion allows people to believe by the millions what only lunatics could believe on their own.

      For those who blame the man, and absolve religion–why? It's right there in the Bible at the end of Mark. It's a sign of the faithful that they shall handle serpents. This man REALLY believed. He truly had faith, and trusted in God. Just as Abraham trusted in God and was prepared to plunge the knife into Isaac.

      February 23, 2014 at 11:27 pm |
  5. Vic

    For those who question the Gift of Salvation:

    Let's say Denny's or McDonald's announces that on a given day, all customers eat free of charge. I am pretty sure many people will go there for the giveaway/gift. That means, at the end of their trip to Denny's or McDonlad's, those people must have done the following:-

    1- They heard the offer.
    2- They believed the offer.
    3- They accepted the offer.
    4- They received the offer.

    So is the Gift of Salvation; just "believe."

    February 22, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I tried that at McDonald's...I mean I really believed....and nothin'. Liar.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
    • Doris

      I'm confused. It sounds like the bathroom there will just be full of people all the time in that case. So everyone just keeps eating free food and keeps throwing up because they are imperfect until they die – so once they die from too much eating and throwing up, finally the food stays down and they are finally with Him? What good is that to have a bunch of dead people with full stomachs lying around at Denny's?

      February 22, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
    • kudlak

      Vic
      How do you know that anyone has actually "received the offer"?

      You have to die before actually finding out, don't you?

      February 22, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
      • Vic

        It is the moral of the story behind the analogy. Faith/Belief in God is between the person and God.

        February 22, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • Ungodly Discipline

          Actually Vic, it is not between the person and god(s), it is between the person and their delusional brain.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
        • kudlak

          Vic
          How do you know that it really isn't just you pleasing yourself with this belief?

          February 23, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
      • new-man

        kudlak:
        no, you don't have to die to find out.

        Jesus came so that we may have life, and have it more abundantly. That also means in this life, you can have abundant life.
        In the Kingdom of Heaven, which you can also live here on earth (there will be a second coming, yes), there is no lack. SO by living this abundant life that Jesus has offered, in that abundant life there is no lack of health, peace, prosperity, authority, power, dominion etc.

        So all that is yours right now, and not just for when you die...

        February 22, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • hotairace

          I am alive and have an abundant life, nothing really to complain about, all done without any god.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • kudlak

          new-man
          I have to agree with hotairace, I live a pretty abundant life, sans gods.

          None of the Christians that I know have significantly higher levels of "health, peace, prosperity, authority, power, dominion etc". Maybe you're thinking of some rich pastors, or Christian authors?

          February 23, 2014 at 5:19 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      @Vic,
      That's a specious analogy, impying that steps 3 & 4 always happen if and only if step 2 is completed. Such is not in evidence.

      February 22, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
    • Vic

      Edited for clarity:

      That means, at the end of their trip to Denny's or McDonlad's, those people "who ate for free" must have done the following:-

      1- They heard the offer.
      2- They believed the offer.
      3- They accepted the offer.
      4- They received the offer.

      February 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        Unless they happened to be headed to Denny's anyway....

        February 22, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        "No one shall caom to me, unless the Father draw him".
        Now why would he waste his time saying that if everyone were chosen ?
        Face it. Your god is capricious.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:24 pm |
    • hotairace

      Sorry, nothing is free. In the case of joining the dead jew zombie cannibal vampire death cult aka christianity, one must give up all rationale thought and believe that for which there is zero actual evidence. Thanks, but I'll maintain my personal integrity and take a (very small) chance that your god is anything more than smoke and mirrors.

      February 22, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
      • Doris

        Or if it is free, I'm thinking ordinary folk are made to feel obligated to give up their free regular breakfast so that the bishops and evangelists are guaranteed a Grand Slam breakfast when they walk in.

        February 22, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      There is nothing about "salvation" in the earliest gospel, (Mark). Paul of Tarsus cooked us "salvation" as a sales tactic. When Jebus was asked by the young man in Matthew what he should do to gain eternal life, did Jebus say ANYTHING about "salvation" ? Nope. Did he say "Just wait, I'll save you" ? Nope. He said "keep the commandments". Period.

      February 22, 2014 at 11:22 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        NICE cherry picking....Jesus did not end it there..he was making a point..He went on to answer the dicsiples hwho asked "WHO then can be saved?" and Jesus says with man this is impossible..with God it is possible....sorry charlie//try to actually read the Bible next time

        February 23, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
    • dandintac

      Vic,

      There is a huge difference between your analogy with McDonalds and the claim of "salvation" and eternal life. With the restaurant offer, there is HARD EVIDENCE about whether or not its true. The claim can be TESTED, and verified.

      What if instead the restaurant promised the free stuff, but only after the person(s) die?

      Believer: "If you believe all this, you get to live forever in paradise! Really!! Just trust us!"
      Skeptic: "Oh? When does this happen? What evidence do you have?"
      Believer: "Sorry–you have to have faith. You don't get to live forever until after you die!"

      Take out words like "religion" "faith" "Jesus", etc. If this were any other claim–like a magic pill that did all this–wouldn't you be terribly naive to believe it?

      February 23, 2014 at 11:35 pm |
  6. Austin

    . IF you had proof, there would be only one religion

    @ midwest rail.

    I love the understanding in this statement.

    February 22, 2014 at 12:46 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Yes, Austin, focus on that and ignore the rest of the post. Nicely dodged.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
      • Austin

        lol. How are you doing today?

        I am really glad you understand that reality though. In other words, if Christ is raised from the dead, then the other religions are false? correct?

        February 22, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Austin, people don't rise from the dead.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
        • midwest rail

          As usual, Austin, you ignore what was said and restate it so that it fits your agenda.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
        • Austin

          "No, you do not. IF you had proof, there would be only one religion"

          no there would not Midwest rail. look at what Aaron did. He saw the presence of God and went down the mountain and built a golden calf for the peoples demands. He had proof of God. John the Baptist was in jail and he asked Christ "should we expect another messiah, after he had witnessed miracles.

          If you will not submit to the presence and request the Holy Spirit, no amount of external proof will ever satisfy your fallen soul. Your only remedy is calling on God.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
        • midwest rail

          YOU claim to have proof, Austin. You do not. Words have meaning, and it is painfully obvious you need a good dictionary.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
        • Austin

          i have 30 different examples of proof of God. you call it subjective, which part of it was. but it objectively played out as real. the fact of the matter, is that the old testament gives a clear depiction of ways that God works spiritual reality and revelation.

          the prophets of Israel were expunged by the nation Israel. revelation was always persecuted. Jesus Christ the full revelation of God, was rejected. The holy spirit , the supernatural revelation of God, is rejected.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:18 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Nowhere did I call it subjective. That is your terminology that allows you to refute a point that was never made. This is why you are a pathological liar, Austin.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
  7. colin31714

    How about we give every evangelical Christian a poisonous snake to handle. Net effect would be (i) opposition to a woman's right to choose would plummet; (ii) there would be no attempts to teach our children creations science; (iii) gays would achieve equality; (iv) all teens would be immunized against HPV; (v) international organizations that distribute condoms in Third World countries would be given more financial support; (vi) contraceptives would be freely available in the USA; (vii) no more televangelists, no Joe Olsteen, no Peter Popov, no Benny Hinn......

    The list goes on and on. What a wonderful, beautiful World it would be if all the Evangelicals Christians died.

    February 22, 2014 at 12:35 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Or we can just lock them up in "Stupid" jail.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        I hear Alcatraz is available and already full of beasties with similar mentalities.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
      • colin31714

        But then, we'd have to feed them, clothe them, heat them, prevent escapes. The UN would be on our back about conditions at the facilities. Better to just tell them their Sky-fairy wants them now and let their own idiocy do the rest.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          We'll drop in 50 pounds of flour and potatoes every month and let them fight it out. I say we built a special cross for Austin, so he can feel closer to his imaginary friend-he can sleep there at night in restraints with the non-stop sound of a car crashing in to a building.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • Austin

          why did the Apostle Paul carry around Stephens foot around his neck as good luck Charm for consenting to his stoning death?

          God saves sinners.

          T.itus 3:5 ►

          he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

          Luke 5:32 ►

          "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

          Romans 5:8 ►

          But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Austin, use your words....

          February 22, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
        • Austin

          my faith is through the authentic ministry of the Holy Spirit. your salvation is from God.

          John 15:26-27

          26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Again...and I feel like I am beating a dead jesus here...use YOUR words.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
        • Austin

          Jesus Christ is the word of God. God is the author of salvation and He has given us his tool, the word, to instruct you.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Austin, prove it.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
  8. Apple Bush

    I submit that the Christians on this blog have no proof of god and are liars. Prove me wrong.

    February 22, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Proof? Anybody?

      February 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        This cold case is closed.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      I have mentioned MY proofs before...and you cannot prove IM a liar..I experience Gods presence..I seen His work in my life and lives of others....this is repeated time and again..not only with me..with other believers..so it is repeateable...these are a FEW things in ly list of proofs..since I been a Christian over 25 years.....how do I knpw its God/. and not some other god or satan? he has not led me to be immoral..He is consistent..He speaks to me (Don't pretend to be a psycholoigist and say IM a schizo..I work in the psycology field..no other psychs say such things..only wannabes) now prove IM lying

      February 22, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        @kermit4jc,
        you may have had experiences that convinced you that there is a god, but that does not necessarily equate to objective evidence. If the only evidence that a non-witness could have is your word then it was likely not an objective phenomena.

        February 22, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          and just because it is not objective as you say..doesn't mean it is not proof..and thus is why YOU should Never take MY word for it..I never took ANY mans word for it..I found out for myself from GOD Himself...it would be very naïve and dishonest to do any other way...NO man proved God to me..why should I expect more from anyone else?

          February 22, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Ive done my part..gave testimony..evidence..now YOU do YOUR part..find out if it is true..seek for yourself

          February 22, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @kermit4jc,
          “and just because it is not objective as you say..doesn't mean it is not proof”

          actually it does… it doesn’t mean it’s not true I agree, but it’s not evidence nor proof, at least not in normal usage of the terms.

          “Ive done my part..gave testimony..evidence..now YOU do YOUR part..find out if it is true..seek for yourself”

          February 22, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          right..so now if you really want proof..you truly want to know God exists...go find out from God Himself...if you don't find him..fine..thats your loss..if yo udo great..its a gain for you...

          February 22, 2014 at 1:53 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Your imagination does not constitute proof. Perhaps like Austin, you are not a liar. Perhaps you are just mentally ill.

        February 22, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          WOW..what arrogance..now you claim to know whats ni MY mind? if you wanna go that route..PROVE it is only my imagination

          February 22, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          and I told you not to go the route of pretending youre a psychologist

          February 22, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          You are bonkers, number 1. Number 2 you are the one that claims their is a god, not me. Prove it.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I alrwadygave You proof..now YOU go out and seek to collaborate if this is true..seek GOD..Don't take my word for it..unless you wanna be naïve and dishonest.the REAL: proof is God Himself..that is the BEST proof for you..not from me...

          February 22, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          You gave me no proof. You never have and you can’t. I have no idea what you mean by “…seek to collaborate if this is true….” I guess you are just ignorant.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          NO..you want "objective" proof and nothing more..youlimit your life that way..I feel sorry for you...when I said to collaborate..I mean take what I told you..seek it out...seek God and see if what I told you holds up..thats how we find proof is it not? that's how scientists work is it not? they take questions..they test it out...and find proof in the answers...they don't say "well, so and so says this..so it mUST be true!"

          February 22, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          "they don't say "well, so and so says this..so it mUST be true!"

          Now you are beginning to understand lol.

          Also, I think you meant "corroborate".

          February 22, 2014 at 2:09 pm |
      • otoh2

        kermit,
        "I work in the psycology field"

        What do you do? Launder straight jackets? Refill tissue boxes in a psychologist's office?

        If you have a bachelor's degree in psychology, as you claimed, I'm the offspring of the King of Siam and the Queen of Sheba! Any school that awarded you a bachelor's degree in *anything* should have their accreditation revoked.

        February 22, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          YOUR beluittling as such deserves no more comment...you cant stand that I know much about psychology and work in the field...you want an honest answer..thern ask an honest quesiotn and I will give it to you...until then..be delusional in your thinking of what I do

          February 22, 2014 at 2:04 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          I had to understand spelling and grammar to graduate.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          HUH? whats that supposed to mean? you implying that I don't know how to spell and such??

          February 22, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Yes.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          wow..I guess you never heard anything of the term TYPO? and I guess youhavent really noticed that I type fast..trying to keep up with the threads? sheesh...youre pretty arrogant..Im in fact a published writer...just cause you find errors in my TYPING does not mean I don't know how to spell...try to think outside the box sometime..it will really help you....

          February 22, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
        • otoh2

          kermit,

          Has this "God" spoken to you lately? Does 'he' guide you in your sloppy, careless, near-imbecilic presentations in 'his' name?

          February 22, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          are you referring to my typing skills???????

          February 22, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          You don't even know the difference between the words "collaborate" and "corroborate".

          You can't spell, you have poor grammar, you are a poor typist and you do not have a firm handle on the English language.

          You are a liar about your college degree and you are a liar about being a writer.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          and you are dishionest for making only ONE option for what IM doing..you are such an arrogant person and yo put yourself above others with that tuype of response....shame on you..you know..say whatever..I KNOW myself better than you..if you don't wanna believe that....then you are the delusional one here....btw you seem to not had anyting to back up your responses..so you had to attack my typing skills....too bad for you.....you lost...accept it

          February 22, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Kermy, this is a blog and we have to read it. Do everyone a favor and learn to spell and type. Typo-s happen, but that is not the issue with you. You are just ignorant.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
        • otoh2

          Are these some examples of your "published" work, kermit (from Church Bulletins):

          1. For those of you who have children and don't know it, we have a nursery down stairs.

          2. The eighth graders will be presenting Shakespeare's Hamlet in the church basement on Friday at 7 pm. The congregation is invited to attend the tragedy.

          3. This being Easter Sunday, we will ask Mrs. Lewis to come forward and lay an egg on the alter.

          4. The preacher will preach his farewell massage, after which the choir will sing, "Break Forth With Joy".

          5. Thursday night: Potluck Supper – Prayer and medication will follow.

          6. Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles, and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children.

          7. The outreach committee has enlisted 25 visitors to make calls on people who are not afflicted with any church.

          8. Evening massage – 6 p.m.

          9. The Pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday morning.

          10. The audience is asked to remain seated until the end of the recession.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          haha funny....though those are old

          February 23, 2014 at 4:22 pm |
      • dandintac

        Kermit,

        I experience Apollo's presence. I have seen Apollo's work in my life and lives of others. Apollo has not led me to be immoral..He is consistent. Apollo speaks to me.

        Have I convinced you Apollo really exists, and that I have a "personal relationship" with him? And that YOU should be believing and worshiping Apollo as well?

        Take it further. We should base our legislation around Apollo's directives. We should teach all about Apollo to our children in school. They should pray to Apollo. Our science must be based around what we know to be true because of Apollo's revelation. Those who do not believe in Apollo must be immoral, and should not be considered citizens or patriots.

        February 23, 2014 at 11:50 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          YOU have not cause I know youre not being sinicere in this.....and GOD is the one who conbvinces...I been saying over and over....why rely only on us to convince you> God is good enough to convince....

          February 24, 2014 at 7:18 pm |
  9. bostontola

    As I said, I'm grateful most Christians pick and choose or interpret the bible rules. It would be horrible if all Christians actually condoned slavery, subjugation of women, punished descendants of criminals, applied maximum penalties for transgressions, condoned genocide, used animals and the environment as they please, etc.

    I'm glad most have the sense that outdated morality shouldn't be emulated and adhered to, and ignore the obsolete notions and interpret others to match our modern sensibility.

    February 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      When they denounce the bible, then I will be impressed.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
      • bostontola

        I understand that perspective. I'm perfectly satisfied living with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc that respect other people's beliefs and don't try to impose on others. I like variety, even (or perhaps especially) irrational points of view, as long as they don't encroach on my rights.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:27 pm |
        • Austin

          religion is not truth.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          You are far more tolerant than me.... :mrgreen:

          February 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
        • bostontola

          Austin,
          I agree, there is a big difference between religion and God. Many people don't make the distinction and fall into traps as a result.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Austin, what is truth? Please describe in your OWN words and provide proof.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • Austin

          apple bush, I have experienced over 30 spiritual revelations. I have spilled the truth here before. the fact is, my gift is not the focal point of your need. I am not trying to be stubborn, but it is a fact, that your eternal salvation is far more important than the external proof that I have, that can't save you.

          you are wasting your time. you have a far greater responsibility to receive the truth, doing so through the Holy Spirit.

          That is your greatest responsibility in your life that you have. Obeying God's truth.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          So Austin, what you are saying is you have no proof.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
    • Austin

      Bostontola, you are exploiting the truth with "so called christians". you are focusing on people instead of truth.

      f Galatians 2:17.

      But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
      • Austin

        a church is a hospital for spiritually sick people.

        everyone is helpless. stop blaming people for sin. That is the devils job. and that is what he does.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
        • Austin

          sin is no different than disease. it is a spiritual disease, and physical disease.

          there is only one remedy.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
        • bostontola

          Austin,
          Most do great great work healing people's spirits, I applaud them. Playing with poisonous snakes, not so much. Faith healing, not so much. Distorting science and history curricula, not so much.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          "sin is no different than disease"

          Please prove this.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
        • new-man

          Amen!
          He was rightly called "the accuser of the brethren" for a reason.

          "God is not on the frequency of condemnation" –
          We use the gift of no condemnation (Jesus told the woman- neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more) to have the power to sin no more.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          new-man, please explain why god(s) made sin if it is bad.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
        • colin31714

          Wow, New-Man, you are very ignorant of the Bible, aren't you. The story of Jesus and the adulteress is well accepted as a later forgery added to the Gospel of John in the Fourth Century. It is amazing to me how little Christians know about their own book!!! This isn't even controversial, it is well accepted.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
        • new-man

          colin:
          well accepted by whom?

          I do not base my spiritual growth on man's opinion but on the Word of God.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:44 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          new man: How do you know it's the word of god???

          February 22, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
        • colin31714

          Well accepted by biblical scholars. People who spend their lives researching the earliest texts we have. The story does not appear in ANY version of the Gospel of John until the Middle Ages. The copies in the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus don't contain it and nor does Codex Alexandruis. The first church father who even mentions the story is in the Twelth Century – and he doubts its authenticity. Further, the style in which it is written is very different to the rest of John. The issue is settled in academic circles. The story is a forgery.

          More to the point, you do base your belief on the word of men. You just pick and choose which men to consider divinely inspired.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
        • new-man

          AB...
          Sin is disbelieving the voice/words of your creator. Sin is choosing to reject God's wisdom, while accepting the words of doubts of the devil.

          Mankind was subjected to vanity, not willingly.
          However, this vanity allowed man to fall into the bondage of the corruption of the reasoning of his mind/soul.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • sam stone

          austin, sin is a man made concept, like god, heaven, hell and redemption

          i see that you just switched drugs from booze to jeebus.

          good for you

          you are an entertaining sot

          February 22, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
    • Austin

      It would be horrible if all Christians actually condoned slavery,
      I condone it under the understanding of servant hood, as i am a servant, and also that God told us to be willing to be a slave, as the Jews were slaves.

      subjugation of women
      this is an acceptable fact of Gods role for men and women

      , punished descendants of criminals
      old testament, not applicable to Christians

      , applied maximum penalties for transgressions, condoned genocide, used animals and the environment as they please
      these 3
      not applicable to Christians in any way

      February 22, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
      • Austin

        you have issues with what the new testament says about , the role of husband/wife and not women in general, ho.mose.xuals, and slavery.

        The word of God will not change, and either will an obedient Christians acceptance of the Word of God.

        Rev 19:13

        And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        Austin, you can't have it both ways. Without the OT, the NT is meaningless. Cherry picker.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • Austin

          Apple bush. I am not a hebrew or a Jew. the old testament was about the nation of Israel. old testament= old promise

          the new testament is the new promise

          Romans 1:16 ►

          For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
          1 Tim 4:10
          "(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe" (NIV).

          February 22, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Then you do not believe that your god is responsible for both testaments? You do not believe in the prophecies of the OT that extend to the NT? You are a liar.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
        • Austin

          apple bush,

          The old testament LAW, was fulfilled by Christ. We are NOT UNDER THE LAW.

          Romans 6:14 ►

          For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

          the new /better covenant promise is does what the law could not. The baptism of the Holy Spirit changes one from within .
          This is what salvation is.....sanctification , redemption from our natural condition. Restoration, regeneration, communion.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
        • Austin

          there is a difference between prophecy and law.

          The law has changed through the new covenant, the new law.

          The prophecy is still valid.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Is it just me, or is Austin a brick shy?

          February 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
  10. Ungodly Discipline

    If you can prove you exist to me, then you can try to prove there is a god(s).

    February 22, 2014 at 11:59 am |
    • Austin

      salvation does not come through external proof. That is the way it is

      Salvation, and proof of God, is the presence of the Holy Spirit.

      Acts 2:38 ►

      Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
    • Austin

      I have proof of God. I have proof of the devil.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
      • Ungodly Discipline

        Austin, you are an ignorant liar. Please present the truth and I will change my opinion.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • Austin

          you have to test the waters for yourself. kind of like the bird who goes out of mothers nest. you cant do it spiritually until you truly understand one personal concept. Your total depravity.

          We are born spiritually blind.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Austin, you just make things up. Hilarious.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
        • Austin

          no Apple Bush, really, on God's terms, step one is the remission of sins for you.

          and prior to that, God works to prepare peoples hearts . Receive the truth it is a free gift. .

          February 22, 2014 at 12:21 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          And what will I win? I will get to go to heaven and worship god's bloated ego for eternity. Yea.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:27 pm |
      • new-man

        we all have proof of God. some just choose to ignore it.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:14 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          What is your proof please.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
        • Austin

          my proof came through intense struggle with what the bible says.

          then i called out for help.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Austin, what is your proof?

          February 22, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "then i called out for help."

          Yeppers, makes sense to me...pretending to be a good person and remorseful must have looked good when you faced the judge for putting lives at risk.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
      • midwest rail

        " I have proof of God. I have proof of the devil. "
        No, you do not. IF you had proof, there would be only one religion. What you have is nebulous personal experience that you consider sufficient evidence. That is significantly different than proof.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:25 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Can you prove that YOU exist? What is in the blank spaces between things? Do you understand the mechanics of this or any other universe? Does size matter?

      February 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
      • Austin

        are you talking to someone?

        The Holy Spirit is universally present. The blood of Christ is a doorway that washes you clean for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          Gross, no thanks.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:13 pm |
        • Austin

          the blood on the door post, was the way that Israel was set apart as God's people and escaped the bondage of slavery .

          1400 BC

          foreshadowing/ prophecy

          February 22, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          "foreshadowing/ prophecy"

          ROFLMAO

          February 22, 2014 at 12:21 pm |
  11. Apple Bush

    Christians cannot define, nor prove, the "wisdom of god".

    February 22, 2014 at 11:41 am |
    • Austin

      the Holy Spirit bears the truth.

      John 16:13 ►

      But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come

      God's wisdom can't be grasped, so how could a human transmit it in full? not possible.

      on the other hand, the Holy Spirit does prove wisdom one piece at a time. The conviction of sin is a part of wisdom.

      8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

      once you know that sin is real, you have a part of proof of Gods wisdom.

      February 22, 2014 at 11:59 am |
      • Apple Bush

        Thank you Austin for proving my point. All you can do is copy and paste other peoples thoughts and regurgitate other peoples opinions. You are a poster child for ignorant. No offense.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:04 pm |
        • Austin

          if there is no God you could be right then, but God's truth IS truth.

          He is risen.

          stop accusing and calling names.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
        • Austin

          Proverbs 1:7 ►

          The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

          a person needs a little knowledge to be wise.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

          ^^ the teachings of a cult ^^

          February 22, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
        • Austin

          God is Holy. Sin is bad. You are a sinner.

          God is fire.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:14 pm |
        • Apple Bush

          "a person needs a little knowledge to be wise."

          ROTFLMFAO

          February 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "a person needs a little knowledge to be wise."

          That coming from the person who hears voices and says he has conversations with his imaginary friends. Guessing the brain damage received in his drunken rampage driving spree is irreversible.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          AND youget on me for belittling? you are arriogant..just cause someone does that does not mean they are delusional or brain damaged....you are not a psychologist...stop pretending to be one

          February 22, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Using your bible to prove the god of it is circular reasoning. You have once again failed in providing a reasoned response.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Sure they can. Austin just provided a Bible quote that said God's wisdom can't be grasped (which I take to mean "understood"). And then he does on and on with how HE understands it. Why is that not perfectly clear as mud?

      February 22, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
      • Austin

        because it is a process, a walk , and we struggle daily.

        without the Holy Spirit, you cant understand or have saving faith, which leads us into the light.

        You have to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, to receive the truth from God.

        Everything is s gift, including life.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:16 pm |
        • Austin

          1 Corinthians 12:3 ►

          Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Cause Austin is a special brand of christian...I believe if he were forced to be diagnosed, it would be similar to the same diagnosis as Susan Yates-religious psychosis!

        February 22, 2014 at 12:32 pm |
  12. Apple Bush

    What do you suppose is/was the evolutionary advantage of religion?

    February 22, 2014 at 10:55 am |
    • Sungrazer

      Atran and Boyer would say religion is a byproduct of other adaptations.

      February 22, 2014 at 11:07 am |
    • Russ

      @ AB: per your question, note well the argument beginning around the 0:50 mark...

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0mjVcmcIo&w=640&h=360]

      February 22, 2014 at 11:09 am |
      • Heaven Sent

        I disagree with him, but thanks Russ.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:30 am |
        • Apple Bush

          That was for Russ from Apple Bush. Sorry.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:35 am |
      • bostontola

        He uses a classic fallacy. He calls evolution a belief, it is not a belief, it is a validated scientific fact. It is not vulnerable to the frailties of an individual human mind because the predictions and tests have been independently performed by multiple scientists. Findings have been challenged and have met the challenges. Multiple fields of science, biology, microbiology, genetics, geology, archaeology, paleontology, ecology, etc all confirm evolution and form a tightly interwoven model of life development. Trying to make evolution equivalent to invalidated beliefs is a classic fallacy.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:42 am |
        • Russ

          @ bostontola:
          actually he does not. note well: he is speaking to atheistic evolutionary naturalists' critique of theism. and he quotes the New Republic (among other secular – if not outright atheist – publications) as making THE SAME critique.

          for example, here is his paper *defending* the possibility of evolution from within a theistic framework:

          February 22, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
        • bostontola

          Russ,
          Actually he does. Your degree of denial is extreme if you can't see it. It is explicit, not subtle.

          February 22, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
        • Russ

          @ bostontola: so you also believe the New Republic & Thomas Nagel (whom he is citing) make that argument?

          February 23, 2014 at 7:39 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        @Russ,
        Obviously this is rather deep subject, but I would suggest that the difference lies in "belief forming faculties". Whereas belief in God is, just that, a belief, the acceptance of evolution is an understanding of the evidence and a certain level of understanding of how the universe works, or at least appears to work.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • Russ

          @ MidwestKen: note my comment to bostontola above.

          the attack is not evolution per se, but rather a particular set of assumptions: namely, naturalism. as such, atheists/naturalists are attempting to explain religion away *using* evolution. the critique is in response to that argument. and, again, he is citing several other secular sources as advancing that critique (the New Republic, Thomas Nagel, etc.).

          February 22, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Russ,
          I agree that Plantinga's argument is not against evolution per se, but the video is not so clear. For example, even a "Theistic Evolutionist" would still look for a naturalistic explanation for "belief forming faculties". He or she might attribute said naturalistic explanation to "God's plan" or some such, but would still look for one, a la Collins, Miller, etc. So searching for a naturalistic explanation is not explaining away "God", per se, but the development of "belief forming faculties".

          February 22, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Russ,
          For clarification, I don't think I disagree with Keller's position on evolution, at least what he present in the first couple of pages in the the link you referenced (http://biologos.org/uploads/projects/Keller_white_paper.pdf).

          In my mind, it boils down to his first of four "difficulties", "To account for evolution we must see at least Genesis 1 as non-literal." Once you get over this hurdle, unlike some, e.g. Ken Ham, et al., Andrew Snelling, et al. @wolfbitn, et al., much of the rest is less difficult. Basically, evolution only conflicts with Christian religion if one takes Gensis literally.

          As for the converse, that evolution disproves God, that is also false, or at least unfounded. However, while finding a naturalistic explanation for "belief" does not disprove God, it does extend the ever expanding reach of science and therefore shrinking, yet again, that "perimeter of ignorance" (deGrasse Tyson) in which God may be hiding.

          February 22, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
        • hotairace

          As a result of watching deGrasse Tyson again, I've been reading "The Cosmotheoros of Christiaan Huygens (1698)." Huygens spends a few chapters in Book 1 explaining why his research does not conflict with and might be beneficial to religion. I wonder why he felt the need to include such words, unless of course, he expected the church to be somewhat upset. If I remember correctly, Darwin had similar concerns and worded things so as not to rile the church. Thank goodness ('cause most likely, there are no gods, not even just one) that scientists no longer have to "bend over" for the delusionals.

          February 22, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @hotairace,

          RAmen!

          February 22, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • Russ

          @ MIdwestKen: you said: "However, while finding a naturalistic explanation for "belief" does not disprove God, it does extend the ever expanding reach of science and therefore shrinking, yet again, that "perimeter of ignorance" (deGrasse Tyson) in which God may be hiding."

          it sounds like you are appealing to the "God of the gaps" fallacy here. note well: that's not the argument theists are making (because we are appealing to the notion of transcendence, not a god/s from WITHIN the system).

          February 23, 2014 at 7:43 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @Russ,
          I was implying a god of the gaps scenario, but not appealing to it. I'm just saying that as science answers more and more questions, there are fewer and fewer reasons to appeal to god(s), transcendent or not. However, I'm not claiming that science will answer all questions, perhaps it will, perhaps it won't.

          February 23, 2014 at 8:05 pm |
    • bostontola

      AB,
      There are lots of hypotheses around this. My opinion is there are many advantages at many levels. The pervasiveness and durability over time of religion indicates to me that there are advantages and they are manifold.

      At the individual level, being suggestible allowed shame not hypnotize people allowing medical procedures. Humans are social though, most benefits are probably at that level. Groups are more powerful than individuals. Rules to form and manage groups make one group more effective than another with different rules. Competi.tion between these groups would select for better rules. Religion is a set of rules that must have made better groups.

      One piece of genius I admire in the belief of an all knowing God, is it's ability to enforce rules when no one is looking. Humans cheat, especially when no one is looking (scientifically shown). By getting people to cheat less, probably resulted in more fair and coherent societies. Pure genius.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        I don't disagree, and thanks for the response, but what about the negatives? We need only look around to see the damage.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
        • bostontola

          AB,
          I couldn't agree more, there are huge negatives of religion. Evolution only looks at the net at the bottom line. The positives appear to outweigh the negatives in terms of survivability (the only criteria for evolution). Other factors we care about like individual morality are secondary or tertiary.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
  13. bostontola

    This pastor takes the verse about handling serpents literally. Some people criticize most Christians for "picking and choosing" which parts of the bible/religion to follow. I am of the opposite view. I am grateful that the vast majority of Christians pick and choose. There are many great elements of the Christian philosophy that if followed result in a high functioning community.

    I'm thankful that it is only a small minority of "true" Christians that are bible literalists that result in snake bite, or faith healing deaths, and that want to impose their beliefs on others. A small but passionate minority can do much harm, and free people must remain vigilant.

    February 22, 2014 at 10:51 am |
    • Heaven Sent

      I hope you like worms (small snakes) because you will have your own personal worm feeding off your fat drippings for all of eternity. The front door made a nice kitchen table until I lost the kitchen. Jesus' gift to us, the Holy Bible, will save your soul if you will stop being prideful.

      Amen.

      February 22, 2014 at 11:01 am |
      • Russ

        @ Heaven Sent: you seem to want ringside seats in hell. that seems ostensibly the exact opposite sentiment to Jesus – the one who would die to make his enemies family. doesn't the cross tell us Christians we need mercy as much as anyone else?

        February 22, 2014 at 11:07 am |
        • Heaven Sent

          Russ, you might as well put on your satan shoes and go for a walk on the hot coals of hell. The only way to heaven is through our Lord Jesus Christ. My 12-year-old daughter tried a cigar. She did not like it but her son did. Make your excuses, that is just the devil talking through you so you will tell your lies.

          Amen.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:14 am |
        • new-man

          on many levels we're all the same – creatures made subject to vanity unwillingly.

          I do agree though- where is the banner of love.
          All is not hopeless though as we grow and transform daily in His wisdom and love.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:18 am |
      • bostontola

        I like worms a lot! I'll bet you think that the earthworm is only good for fishbait. Well, think again. The earthworm is one of nature's top "soil scientists." The earthworm is responsible for a lot of the things that help make our soil good enough to grow healthy plants and provide us food.

        Worms help to increase the amount of air and water that gets into the soil. They break down organic matter, like leaves and grass into things that plants can use. When they eat, they leave behind castings that are a very valuable type of fertilizer.

        Earthworms are like free farm help. They help to "turn" the soil—bringing down organic matter from the top and mixing it with the soil below. Another interesting job that the worm has is that of making fertilizer.

        Pretty amazing for just a little old worm, don't you think?

        When I die, I don't want any preservative injected, I want to be worm food.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:10 am |
        • otoh2

          bostontola,

          This might be a good choice (if we have one!):

          " the planarian flatworm. This tiny invertebrate, which belongs to a separate phylum from earthworms, is able to reform its entire body from slivers just 1/300th of the animal's original body size.

          And when a planarian regrows its head after decapitation, the creature remarkably keeps all of its old memories, according to research published in the July 2013 issue of the Journal of Experimental Biology." –http://www.livescience.com/38371-two-worms-worm-cut-in-half.html

          February 22, 2014 at 11:35 am |
        • hotairace

          Google YouTube for "Neil deGrasse Tyson stops a religious troll" to hear what deGrasse Tyson wants to happen after he dies.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:47 am |
        • bostontola

          HAA,
          Thanks for the link, NDT is on a similar wavelength.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
      • Truth Be Told

        Amen, Heaven Sent.

        ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ –Mark 9:48

        The worm of Athiest only grows more large and of the devil then there is little hope and things must run its course. Only the Lord can cure pure evil. Amen.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:51 am |
      • hotairace

        I've lost track of the score. "Heaven Sent": 5 – Readers: 0?

        February 22, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
    • Russ

      @ bostontola: there is an enormous difference between purposefully reading shallowly (what most call "literalism") and reading literature seriously (pursuing the author's intent in context, examining the earliest available sources, taking into account the use of a variety of literary genres, etc.).

      along those lines, a response to your "picking & choosing" argument...
      http://www.redeemer.com/news_and_events/newsletter/?aid=363

      February 22, 2014 at 11:04 am |
      • bostontola

        Russ,
        I am happy to generalize "pick and choose" to include interpreting in their own way. The same argument applies.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:16 am |
        • Russ

          @ bostontola:
          of course you are "happy to generalize picking & choosing" – because it fits your argument. but it is question begging... and it enables you to dodge those who are attempting to do the exact opposite.

          let me ask the question literarily, then: in literature, is authorial intent relevant or not?

          February 22, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • bostontola

          Russ,
          Show me how I begged a question, I dispute your claim.

          Author intent is relevant, but not everything. Often times people write without conscious intent for all parts. Others can find meaning that was not consciously intended by the author, but later the author agrees with the finding.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:35 am |
        • the0g0to0the0t

          Russ " is authorial intent relevant or not?"

          This criteria only makes sense when we know who the author actually was (and even then, is usually open to interpretation). As for the OT and the NT, other than a few of the later letters, we cannot confirm who the authors were. Only who they were attributed to.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
        • Russ

          @ bostontola:
          the argument is whether or not "picking & choosing" is the only option. your argument *presupposes* that it is. saying you're "happy to generalize... people who interpret in their own way..." – includes people claiming the exact opposite of your position. it's a refusal to hear them on their own grounds b/c you assume your own position. that is begging the question.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
        • Russ

          @ G to the T:
          I'd press you on your assumptions here. you are taking as given a set of notions that are currently hotly debated as though it scholarship has already settled it. there are some major problems with your position.

          for a great example of a recent scholarly work pressing back against your presuppositions here:
          "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses", Richard Buckram

          February 22, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
        • bostontola

          Russ,
          I suggest you read the OP again. There was no assumption regarding either or. I said some pick and choose, some interpret, some are literalists, there may be other options as well. That is not part of the point made. The point was simple; I'm glad most Christians pick and choose, it makes for better citizens. You can argue the point if you want, but saying it begs a question is just a red herring.

          February 22, 2014 at 5:40 pm |
        • Russ

          @ bostontola:
          you said: "I am happy to generalize "pick and choose" to include interpreting in their own way."
          was i wrong to take you to include *everyone* in this category? or are there those whom you would say fall outside these parameters?

          and that was my point – it certainly appears you are even taking those (to which I was pointing – such as Tim Keller) who are arguing the *exact opposite* position and simply saying "no, that's still my position." so yes, that would be not only a) begging the question, but also b) a refusal to hear their position with integrity.

          February 23, 2014 at 7:46 pm |
      • hotairace

        Says the dude who seems to be taking "Heaven Sent" seriously . .

        February 22, 2014 at 11:19 am |
        • Russ

          @ hotair: it only took one Heaven Sent response for me to learn my lesson – but thanks for the confirmation.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:23 am |
      • stymie1

        You have to admit, from the variety of separate beliefs derived from the christian bible, that there are multiple ways to seriously study the text. There has to be, at some level, some "picking and choosing" going on here. Personally I’m agnostic about the whole thing, but I find it every interesting as it relates to the meanings we derive from any and all text.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:38 am |
        • Russ

          @ stymie:
          again, what directs us? even if just from a standard appraisal of ANY literature, authorial intent, occasion, location, etc.

          within final form criticism, many may disagree about potential redactors/etc., but scholarship still often agrees on central themes of a work in its final form. if you engage in final form criticism of the bible (instead of simply dodging a discussion of the content as such through redaction criticism), only a handful of primary themes arise as major contenders. and considering the major claim on the pages of the Bible is that it commends itself as the Word of God rather than simply a human doc.ument (while readily & simultaneously admitting human agents/authors), one must deal with the "central" character: namely, God. and it's not as if he doesn't tell you himself across that final form what his agenda is.

          consider, for all the talk about the "variety" of what the Bible says (e.g., pointing at 40,000+ denominations as evidence of a lack of unanimity), it ignores that over 2,000,000,000 people agree on certain central truths. ALL of those major Christian denominations (yes, I'm not counting smaller groups classically considered outside these beliefs: like JWs, Mormons, etc.) agree on the central doctrines of the faith. for example, consider the Apostles' Creed (c. AD 180) as a brief summation of the NT teachings on who God is & what our faith is. ALL 2 billion adherents affirm this lengthy set of claims (including the Trinity, creation, the virgin birth, the incarnation, the crucifixion and resurrection, the second coming, etc.).

          point being: the "variety" you are pressing fails to account for such overarching unity.

          February 22, 2014 at 2:57 pm |
  14. Apple Bush

    Christians are screwballs, but they do not completely disgust me in general. Most are nice, deluded people who have simply slipped into the brain washing and drowned. Some of my favorite people are religious, but I don't respect their beliefs. I just tolerate them as they tolerate me.

    February 22, 2014 at 10:41 am |
    • TruthPrevails1

      cue Dala, wolfie and kermi

      February 22, 2014 at 10:44 am |
  15. rosemary1987

    I am tired of the comments on the Belief Blog. No one respects each other's beliefs. I am Pagan and a Unitarian Universalist. I believe each religion is true for its adherents. We are all different people, so spirituality should be as diverse as the people who hold it in high esteem.

    Stop arguing and respect each other's differences.

    February 22, 2014 at 10:12 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      The problem with religious belief is its proponents think it is above reproach and should not be criticized like other ideas.

      February 22, 2014 at 10:16 am |
      • hotairace

        And coded into law for all others to follow exactly as the majority or dominant cult thinks.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:18 am |
      • new-man

        If this were a true statement there would be genuine dialogue, instead of blasphemous mockery, ridicule and insults by those who disagree (mostly from those who label themselves atheists) with another's belief system.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:22 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          You are christian..right? So what you see is christians being persecuted (iyo), if it was muslims being persecuted you'd join in. If christians learned to keep their belief in the homes and churches and out of the public forum (schools, laws, lgbt rights, women rights) there would be no issue but they just can't seem to learn that tiny word 'respect'.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:26 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          And there wouldn't be preaching and Bible quotes from people like you. If you would like a dialog many will have it...but you don't discuss...you preach.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:30 am |
        • sam stone

          if they label it as a belief, that is no problem. when they claim it is knowledge, and present it as a fact, it begs for ridicule

          have you not been around to see the troll who posts about "atheism is stupid in all seasons"?

          February 22, 2014 at 10:32 am |
    • Heaven Sent

      Typical atheist whining that the Christians don't want to play your evil games in the sand. Perhaps you would be happy if all the Christians were kicked off these articles so you can worship satan in peace. My camel-toe gave a great speech on hygiene at the open house. Keep catering to the wicked and end up on the wrong side of the horse fence.

      Amen.

      February 22, 2014 at 10:19 am |
      • rosemary1987

        I don't worship Satan, and I'm not an atheist. I believe in many gods, not one or none. Satan doesn't exist, as far as I'm concerned.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • Heaven Sent

          Arrogant and prideful. Jesus said teachers would come unto us having itchy ears. The puppies made a mess in the oven but I put down a cookie sheet. The Bible is proven to be 100% accurate. Read it or prepare to roast.

          Amen.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:25 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          You don't understand. Heaven Spent thinks anyone who doesn't worship her god worships Satan....including atheists. You might as well argue with your cat...it won't help.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:26 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Whoops...it is fake Heaven Spent....didn't read far enough...doh!

          February 22, 2014 at 10:27 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          HS: You are the ignorant one and if you had the slightest clue, you'd know that the lady you are insulting has vast reason to be offended by christians-they walked in, converted the pagans, stole their traditions and burned them at the stake. Pagans have existed longer than christians have, so show some respect!

          February 22, 2014 at 10:28 am |
      • TruthPrevails1

        "Typical atheist whining that the Christians "

        What dictionary are you using? She said she was pagan, thus she believes in gods and goddesses, that is not definitive of an Atheism.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:22 am |
        • Heaven Sent

          There is only one way to heaven and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ. Turn you back on him and see what color of truck hits you. My 12-year-old daughter got a raise at work and we were able to by trash bags. If you do not follow Jesus' truth you are an atheist and you will come to a bad end.

          Amen.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:29 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          HS: As crazy as ever I see. When did they release you from the asylum and why are they not supervising your meds?

          February 22, 2014 at 10:30 am |
      • hotairace

        Not bad, "Heaven Sent" got two sillies in one go, proving that neither actually read for comprehension what was written.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:29 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Yes I got taken.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:33 am |
        • hotairace

          But will the naive believer figure it out?

          February 22, 2014 at 10:36 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Now that's not fair... if it was real HS there is nothing to comprehend after the first 2 lines.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:38 am |
        • hotairace

          Life's not fair and "Heaven Sent" is getting more clever. I think it is providing a service, keeping all of us, me too, on our toes.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:51 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Oh I agree, it is just that type of comment usually doesn't impart more information...it just blathers on. But we should be more aware.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:58 am |
      • stymie1

        I believe in trolls.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:42 am |
    • Russ

      @ Rosemary: you said: "I believe each religion is true for its adherents."
      you seem to fail to see the exclusivity of your own statements.

      "In the famous story of the blind men and the elephant… the real point of the story is constantly overlooked. The story is told from the point of view of the king and his courtiers, who are not blind but can see that the blind men are unable to grasp the full reality of the elephant and are only able to get hold of part of it. The story is constantly told in order to neutralize the affirmations of the great religions, to suggest that they learn humility and recognize that none of them can have more than one aspect of the truth. But, of course, the real point of the story is exactly the opposite. If the king were also blind, there would be no story. What this means then is that there is an appearance of humility and a protestation that the truth is much greater than anyone of us can grasp. But if this is used to invalidate all claims to discern the truth, it is in fact an arrogant claim with the kind of knowledge which is superior that you have just said, no religion has."
      -Lesslie Newbigin

      February 22, 2014 at 10:46 am |
      • rosemary1987

        I've no desire to argue. Sorry if that's what you were hoping for. Analyze my words all you want; there is no point to arguing on the Internet.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:58 am |
        • Russ

          @ rosemary:
          1) even your response is an argument – a non-argument against arguing.

          2) you are making assertions that don't hold up under scrutiny. and these are *important* things – if not the most important (and that's something about which virtually EVERYONE here can agree). if you won't discuss what's most important, what is worth discussing / arguing over?

          February 22, 2014 at 11:12 am |
    • Sungrazer

      People may deserve respect, but some beliefs, such as those that are harmful or discriminatory, do not.

      February 22, 2014 at 11:56 am |
      • rosemary1987

        I meant in respect to the comments, that is all.

        February 22, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
  16. Heaven Sent

    Snake bites are lucifer’s way of kissing you for being a sinner. You atheists believe the devil (who is lucifer) will love you as God does. My camel-toe is being honored at the VFW. Read the Bible and get a clue or burn in the fire of your father’s kitchen (hell).

    Amen.

    February 22, 2014 at 10:06 am |
    • TruthPrevails1

      If you are capable of using a computer, you are capable of using an on-line dictionary. Stop redefining words to fit your delusions.

      February 22, 2014 at 10:29 am |
  17. new-man

    Having All Things Added To You
    Matthew 6:33
    33But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

    You are probably a responsible person who is concerned about providing well for your family — making sure that there is food on the table, money for the children’s needs, comfort and education, and so on.

    What does God have to say to us about these legitimate concerns? According to Matthew 6:31, He tells us, “Do not worry.” Now, He is not saying that we don’t need all these things because in the same portion of scripture He says, “For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.” (Matthew 6:32)

    So God cares about us having these things. He wants us to have all these things. In fact, He wants all these things added to us. And He tells us that the way these things are added to us is by us seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Therefore, our number one priority every day is to seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness. It is not to seek to add these things to ourselves.

    But what is righteousness? Righteousness is not right behavior. It is right standing with the Father. It is the clearance of all your guilt, which makes you able to stand before God. It is not something you get through right behavior. It is a gift from God. Paul calls it “the gift of righteousness”. (Romans 5:17) And to “seek” this gift is to be conscious of the fact that you have it, to confess that you are righteous in Christ.

    So this righteousness we are told to seek is not right behavior, but right standing before God, which comes to us as a gift when we receive salvation. At the cross, Jesus didn’t just remove our sins, He also gave us His righteousness so that today, we can come boldly before the throne of God and receive freely everything that He died to give us!

    Today, if you want to provide your family with the good things in life, be assured that your heavenly Father knows that you need these things. Just seek His righteousness, not your own righteousness, and “all these things shall be added to you”!

    February 22, 2014 at 9:54 am |
    • Apple Bush

      No offense new-man, but your post is completely without truth. If there were a god(s) do you not think truth would be essential to "righteousness"?

      February 22, 2014 at 10:02 am |
      • new-man

        AB:" If there were a god(s) do you not think truth would be essential to "righteousness"?

        Truth is a person, AB. His name is Jesus Christ.
        Jesus said, I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.
        So yes, truth is essential to righteousness, because it's not your righteousness that Father is looking at but Jesus' righteousness.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:28 am |
        • hotairace

          Jesus allegedly said. There are no first hand accounts of anything a desert dweller named jesus was alleged to have done.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:32 am |
        • Apple Bush

          "Truth is a person, AB"

          ROFL

          February 22, 2014 at 10:35 am |
        • sam stone

          you claim to know that the truth is a person named jesus christ and you expect not to be ridiculed?

          seriously, are you daft?

          February 22, 2014 at 10:36 am |
        • otoh2

          new-man,

          "Look at the Anopheles (Malaria-spreading) mosquitoes of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them."

          They must have found this "righteousness of the Lord", eh?

          February 22, 2014 at 11:18 am |
    • hotairace

      I'm confused. . . Do I have to seek righteousness or has it already been given to me?

      February 22, 2014 at 10:06 am |
      • new-man

        h:
        When you seek Jesus, or by accepting Jesus you are accepting His salvation and His righteousness. (It is not your right standing with God, but Jesus' right standing with God).
        So in effect you've been given His gift of righteousness.

        It's like opening a gift, all that's enclosed within the package is fully yours- salvation, righteousness, faith, the Holy Spirit, Jesus' obedience, etc. because you are now covered by the blood of Jesus, because all that you were was transferred to Jesus, and all that Jesus is, is transferred to you. This is what makes you a new creation, a brand new man.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:34 am |
        • sam stone

          oh, aren't you so righteous, new-man.....

          glad to see that pompousness is still alive

          February 22, 2014 at 10:37 am |
        • hotairace

          But you said in one paragraph I had to seek it but in another it was already given. Which is it, or are you playing a shell game?

          February 22, 2014 at 10:40 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Usually "gift givers" don't threaten consequences for non-acceptance. That isn't a gift...it is an ultimatum.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:41 am |
        • new-man

          sam stone, you make me laugh.

          of course I'm righteous. I am the righteousness of God in Christ.
          It's not being pompous, it's just truth. I can't deny who I am to satisfy someone who rejects the same gift. That wouldn't be wise, would it.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:47 am |
        • new-man

          h:
          You will have to show me where I said to seek it and then that's it's already given at the same time.

          If you seek God and His kingdom, you are also seeking his gifts of salvation, righteousness, faith, Holy Spirit etc. because they all come with the package- so to speak.
          So by seeking, you will be given righteousness yes, because it is a gift, not something you work at becoming.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:55 am |
        • new-man

          BatC:

          You are not being threatened. You are being warned what will happen. You are a friend. A friend doesn't threaten a friend. Likewise why would Jesus threaten you. He's warning you of the consequences for rejecting his lifeline.

          If the bridge is out, and I call to tell you, how am I threatening you. I'm warning you. If you heard, disbelieve what I said and still drive over into the falls below, it means you ignored my warning because you didn't value the words I had to say to you.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:01 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Most of us "sought" and what we found was empty.

          (Now I will wait for the response that we wern't doing it right)

          February 22, 2014 at 11:01 am |
        • hotairace

          Second last paragraph of your original drivel above.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:08 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "You are not being threatened. You are being warned what will happen. You are a friend. A friend doesn't threaten a friend. Likewise why would Jesus threaten you. He's warning you of the consequences for rejecting his lifeline."

          You do know what an "ultimatum" is right? It is a warning. I find it amusing you us an example of a bridge that non one can do anything about. That is not the case here...your god can do anything so you believe...so he could fix the bridge (and please don't go into "Jesus fixed the bridge"...it is absurd). Just because someone doesn't accept the claims of your religion doesn't justify punishment of any kind. Your religion isn't kind...it is abusive.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:09 am |
        • hotairace

          So when I told my children that if they ever became believers they would not inherit a single cent, I was just warning them. Funny, other believers thought I was threatening them, coercing them into following my non-belief, and that I was the most evil person in the world for keeping them out of the clutches of cults. Thanks for affirming my approach.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:24 am |
        • new-man

          BatC:
          I don't understand how you are being punished/will be punished when Jesus already took the punishment for you.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:29 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Apparently I am being punished for non-belief, according to your religion.

          Putting a gun to someones head and saying "take this or I will shoot" is not a gift. It is the actions of a psycho.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:42 am |
        • new-man

          BatC:
          I'm sorry you have that understanding of what the Gospel says. I promise if you keep reading and ask Father for understanding you will have the correct understanding.
          Your salvation is not based on your opinion but on God's word.

          The very word Gospel means Good News, so I cannot understand where all this fear is coming from. What does one do with good news – they spread it, they share it.

          Whose obedience made you righteous? = Jesus

          See, if you're elated because you obey, in the same way you'll be deflated because you disobey. So it's not about you, it's about Him and His obedience, His righteousness.

          And this friend is the essence of the battle in your mind – spiritual warfare.
          The devil wants you to focus on you, on your doing, on your obedience, on you righteousness. But it's not about you, it's all about Him. So rest in all that He has already accomplished for you.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          What does the bible say about non-believers...?

          Friends don't require their friends to "obey" them. That is not a friend...that is a control freak and an abuser. I am sorry you don't see the harm your religion does. I am all to aware of that harm.

          February 22, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Its not that way..we obey cause we ARE friends.I obey MY friend cause HE IS a friend..I love my firneds..I will do what they ask of me..thats how my love for them is shown.

          February 22, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "But it's not about you, it's all about Him." << my point exactly

          Signs you are in an abusive relationship
          – Monitors what you're doing all the time
          – Decides things for you that you should be allowed to decide (like what to wear or eat)
          – Threatens to hurt you, or your children if you don’t love him
          – Blames you for his or her violent outbursts or shortcomings
          -Being se.xually controlling
          – You have an impending sense of consequence that will come if you don't "obey."
          -Tells you that you are “nothing” without him and you don’t deserve his love

          February 22, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
    • sam stone

      new-man: you do realize that quotes from a book are only relevant to those who accept the supposed authority of the book, don't you?

      February 22, 2014 at 10:34 am |
      • new-man

        sam:
        yes, I am well aware of that, and that's the reason I post, so those that can and will accept it's authority will.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:39 am |
        • sam stone

          Do you think you are accomplishing this?

          If god has a plan, and things are going according to his plan, then your posting will have no effect, nor will evangelism. those who will accept will accept regardless

          February 22, 2014 at 11:05 am |
        • hotairace

          The alleged but never proven god's plan is confusing. . .

          I never know who and when to believe! Am I supposed to be a non-believer forever, or am I supposed to believe the next Babble Humper that comes along. What is the plan!?!?!

          February 22, 2014 at 11:34 am |
        • new-man

          sam stone:

          Yes, I think I am. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

          God has a plan for each and every person. When we align ourselves with the will of God, then we will inevitably carry out the will of God for our lifes.
          That is not true... many people die without ever knowing or fulfilling the will of God for their lives. God doesn't manipulate us into doing what He wants.
          As a matter of fact, He takes great delight in the things that are important to His children – if it's important to you, it's important to God.

          Eph 2:8-10 We are His workmanship...
          So God has a purpose at work within each of us.

          However the power of God can be limited in our lives. Ps 78. The children of Israel limited Father. And today most of us do the same so we never come into the fullness of all He has planned for us.

          February 22, 2014 at 11:43 am |
      • kermit4jc

        This one is actually to blessed are cheesemakers right before your post...wow....the signs we are in an abusive relationship....Im glad that doesn't show Christianity! whew!

        February 22, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          (I think I struck a nerve)

          February 23, 2014 at 1:21 am |
        • kermit4jc

          NOT at all 🙂 I wasnt grumpy when I said it..i was just saying.....

          February 23, 2014 at 4:55 pm |
    • otoh2

      new-man,

      What a plati'tude-filled anodyne of a sermon!

      Reminds me of:

      "Long-haired preachers come out every night
      To tell you what's wrong and what's right
      But when asked how about something to eat
      They will answer in voices so sweet:

      You will eat, bye and bye
      In that glorious land above the sky
      Work and pray, live on hay
      You'll get pie in the sky when you die."

      February 22, 2014 at 11:39 am |
      • new-man

        otoh2:
        make no mistake about it, if you wanted food, I'd feed you. If you wanted shelter, I'd ensure you have it. If you wanted healing, I'd command it in the name of Jesus. I would do these things because I want to see people the way Jesus sees them, to do for them what Jesus did for them – not through pity but though love and compassion.

        These were the signs that Jesus spoke of that should follow a believer.
        what can I say – one man's plati.tude is another man's salvation.

        Stay Blessed friend.

        February 22, 2014 at 11:49 am |
        • otoh2

          new-man,
          " if you wanted food, I'd feed you. If you wanted shelter, I'd ensure you have it. If you wanted healing, I'd command it... – not through pity but though love and compassion."

          I'd do these things too. No god necessary.
          (sans the magical command to "Jesus" - and what's the matter with pity, if it gets you moving to help? In fact:
          Pity is:
          the feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the suffering and misfortunes of others.)

          February 22, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
  18. Varney

    Speaking of funerals, the inscription on an atheist casket read: "All dressed up and nowhere to go."

    February 22, 2014 at 6:46 am |
    • Varney

      Agnostic casket : all dressed up but not certain as to the final destination 😉

      February 22, 2014 at 6:49 am |
    • Reality

      What all caskets will read in the near future: "Stardust we are and stardust we shall return !!"

      February 22, 2014 at 7:44 am |
    • otoh2

      Varney,
      "All dressed up and nowhere to go."

      That inscription is suitable for Christian (or any other 'heaven'-believers) caskets too.

      What is your verified evidence that they actually "go somewhere"?

      February 22, 2014 at 11:28 am |
  19. partsgenius

    Sorry to highjack the thread, but this WordPress requirement is bull-fing-sh!t. If that's the only way you (CNN editors/moderators) can come up with to control the abusers (how about just getting rid of the whole report abuse button-none of the other blogs have one) then you need a new profession. I can't access WordPress at work, so am unable to join in any of the discussions.

    February 21, 2014 at 10:09 pm |
    • hotairace

      Can't you just use the web interface (religion.blogs.cnn.com) or is that URL blocked at your place of work? I'm at home on my own net but am using WordPress, just the web interface, usually on an iPad.

      February 21, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
    • Doris

      One thing that's screwy with this WordPress thing is that evidently, if you are using the app, you get one (or more?) level of ability to reply than most people. So now you have to be careful and look up to see if someone might have replied to you at a place where it looks like (at that level of indention) no further replies can be made and should go to the bottom. The result is the date-timestamps go out of order and like I say, you may miss someone's response if you're not careful.

      February 21, 2014 at 10:38 pm |
  20. Vic

    Belief/Faith in God explains the "Origin" of the universe and life in it, hence God's Creation.

    Empirical Science explains "how" God's Creation "physically works," hence God's Natural Revelation.

    February 21, 2014 at 8:33 pm |
    • hotairace

      Science doesn't give a sh!t about any believer's biases, beliefs or delusions. Properly conducted, it is completely independent of any religious belief system.

      February 21, 2014 at 8:46 pm |
      • Vic

        That was not my premise.

        My premise is that God and Empirical Science are compatible. Plus, nobody owns Faith/Belief in God nor does anybody own Empirical Science.

        As we Christians believe in God as the Creator of Heavens and Earth and life, hence "Origin" and God's Creation, we explore how God's Creation physically works through Empirical Science, hence God's Natural Revelation.

        February 21, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          You're starting with the presumption that a god created the universe and that it is your god; you then say that science is the study of your god's creation. It is the study of creation to determination all that can be discovered; so far no evidence of a god.

          February 21, 2014 at 9:27 pm |
        • hotairace

          Then you should have written that initially rather than the drivel you did.

          And religion and science are in conflict, at least when it comes to the RCC (sanctuary of pedophile priests and their protectors) and evolution. The RCC does not fully embrace evolution.

          And you only need to view a few Tyson de Grasse videos to see how religious belief can stymie the advance of science.

          February 21, 2014 at 9:36 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Making up answers does not "explain" anything.

      February 21, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
      • derado8

        Darn it. 😉

        February 21, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          I know, I tried convincing my teachers otherwise. But they were having none of it.

          February 21, 2014 at 10:13 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Actually it does none of those things. But thanks for admitting your faith is nothing but a "god of the gaps" place holder because your brain NEEDS an explanation for things which as of yet are not fully explained. You're like a two year old asking mommy "but why, but why". If you actually think it provides the answers, it proves you don't even understand the questions, Vic the dumb di.k. Repeating your nonsense ad m=nauseam does not make it true. It does prove you NEED to think it's true as you NEED cognitive closure.

      February 22, 2014 at 12:51 am |
    • Vic

      Here is the thing:

      The God hypothesis is the most plausible and extremely LOGICAL explanation for this existence; there is no other explanation for the "Origin" of the universe and life in it.

      Now, for this universe, which is physical and ever-changing, hence finite, hence cannot be infinite/eternal, hence temporal, hence had a beginning, to exist, there must be a cause. Since the universe had a beginning and is physical, ever-changing and finite, there must be a cause that is outside the universe's beginning, realm and time, and is not subject to it, that is non-temporal—without beginning nor end, hence NON-CHANGING, hence UNCAUSED, hence Metaphysical, hence a "First Cause"—Eternal.

      As a Christian, I believe that LOGICAL MUST "First Cause" is God Almighty, the Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit.

      February 22, 2014 at 6:30 am |
      • bostontola

        Vic,
        1. Perfect logic does not guarantee truth. If the premise is false, perfect logic still leads to false conclusions. The first cause logic has assumptions. It assumes our classical notions of physics, it assumes the universe/multiverse is finite in time, it assumes that time is well defined at the origin, etc.
        2. I agree that today science and belief in God don't conflict regarding the origin of our observable universe. But this is because validated science doesn't address the origin yet. There are hypotheses that do explain the origin without the need for any external agent.
        3. Even if some God is the ultimate creator, it isn't the God of the bible. The biblical God is in conflict with scientific fact, and the biblical God conflicts with natural moral code.

        February 22, 2014 at 8:12 am |
        • Sungrazer

          Yes, it is amazing how the creator of the universe turns out to be the(personal) god they happened to be raised with.

          February 22, 2014 at 10:01 am |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        "The God hypothesis is the most plausible and extremely LOGICAL explanation for this existence; there is no other explanation for the "Origin" of the universe and life in it."

        Making up answers does not make it logicial. And most religious believers are not claiming it is a hypothosis (educated guess) you claim it to be true and many if not most expect others to treat it as if it were true...which is NOT logical.

        February 22, 2014 at 10:21 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      "Belief/Faith in God explains the "Origin" of the universe and life in it, hence God's Creation."

      False. Belief in God provides no explanation at all. It merely provides an excuse for not having to search for an actual explanation. Can you describe HOW God accomplished this task or did he just "poof" it into existence? You have a pretty low bar for what qualifies as an explanation.

      February 22, 2014 at 8:32 am |
    • hotairace

      Everyone, especially belivers, should watch Tyson de Grasse (Google "de Grasse debunks creation") explain, with several examples, that when some reach the limit of their knowledge, they just assume "some god did it" while others get to work and actually come up with a better answer. "We don't know yet and may never know" is a better answer than "some god did it."

      February 22, 2014 at 9:24 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.