February 26th, 2014
03:12 PM ET

soundoff (1,555 Responses)
  1. colin31714

    It used to be more fun before the tide started to turn and we atheists had a real battle on our hands. It's getting to the point now that, far from feeling like I am on the front lines battling dogma and superst.ition, I feel like I am mopping up the remaining pockets of resistance to logic and reason in a boring rear guard action.

    On this blog, apart from the occasional visitor, we're pretty much down to Austin, Dalahast, believerfred and the like. One might as well debate European Economic theory with a litter of corgis.

    February 26, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Who elected you the voice of reason? Or logic? Or even the voice of atheists?

      Are you pretending? Or do you seriously think you are doing anything more than just poking fun at religion and religious people? Just typical internet atheist behavior. Nothing unique, intelligent or worthy of nobleness. Thanks for letting us all know how awesome and superior you feel. Great! All 7 of us are so happy for you.

      It is cute that you think so. Kind of like how it is cute when my niece has a tea party with her dolls.

      February 26, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
      • Dalahäst

        Ok, let's play school now:

        I'll play teacher. Here is my "test".

        Colin is superior and everyone is absurd because of the ridiculous notion that....

        a) Colin

        b) Colin

        c) Colin

        d) Colin

        🙂 Yay! Look at me. I'm a teacher!

        February 26, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
        • hotairace

          Too bad for you that you botched what was supposed to ridicule someone. You don't look too bright or appear to be a good teacher now.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          My point is that Colin writes "tests" that display a logical fallacy known as the "loaded question fallacy". It appears to be like a test one might see in an academic setting. But once you read one, it appears it is just nonsense. And you would never see such poor reasoning or bias expressed in a question from any legitimate inst.itution of higher learning.

          So basically he is just like a little kid "playing school".

          That joke isn't translating?

          February 26, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
        • hotairace

          Colin's tests at least use complete sentences. Yours did not, so no, it did not translate. Whatever point you might have made got lost in execution, possibly because it was not well thought, much like believing in alleged supernatural buddies.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          It was a parody of one of his tests.

          Pretty much the correct answer to any of his questions are ones that agree with his very biased opinion.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:27 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Colin has also started making fake quotes from me, so I'm returning the favor.


          February 26, 2014 at 5:28 pm |
        • hotairace

          Colin's claims may seem biased to you, but when it comes to the truth of religion or the existence of any god, he is very able to back up his claims with fact. Unlike you or any other believer, who ultimately always bails out with "that's what I believe and I will believe it regardless of facts to the contrary and no actual evidence" or something to that effect. The one thing you are very good at is faith: pretending to know things you do not.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:34 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          No, he usually resorts to insults and uses such popular internet atheist catch phrases like "sky fairy" and "bronze age sheep herders". He has constantly used circular reasoning to try and prove his personal opinion is a fact.

          The idea that he thinks logic and reason are exclusively on his side is just plain silly. It is obvious this guy is qualified to post rants on the internet, but not for much else above that level.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:41 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Could you provide an example of circular reasoning (by colin)?

          February 26, 2014 at 5:50 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          He says that 'I believe prayer is thinking some magical sky fairy alters history for me.'

          I say no. That is not what I think prayer is.

          So he says, oh you don't think God answers your prayers?

          And I say, God answers all prayers.

          And he says, 'Ohhh.... see, you believe prayer is thinking some magical sky fairy alters history for you. Hmmm....'


          It is silliness.

          February 26, 2014 at 6:22 pm |
        • colin31714

          No, that is an example of me preventing you from trying to have it both ways. Claiming prayer works and then claiming you don't believe in the very elements that are required for prayer to work. Here is an example of circular reasoning.

          I believe in God


          Because the Bible says so.

          And why do you believe the bible?

          Because it's the word of God.

          PS Thanks HAA and In Santa.

          February 26, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I haven't used that line of reasoning.

          That is speculation on your part.

          Here, I can play your game, too:

          Why is Colin's opinion true? Because it is reasonable. Why is it reasonable? Because it isn’t faith. What happens if you reject faith? You think Colin's opinion is true.

          Ta da!

          February 26, 2014 at 6:34 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          And I refused to accept your opinion on prayer.

          I offered the beliefs of other people's opinions on prayer. People that have stronger credentials than you, in fact. And they didn't suggest your opinion.

          But, according to your reasoning, your opinion is true.

          February 26, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          new-man recently guaranteed that he could show that prayer worked but has subsequently avoided that topic. As you are convinced of prayer, why not take the baton and prove it – the challenge was to nominate an amputee and record prayer information and post it along with regular photographs showing the limb(s)' growth. In case you're wondering why an amputee – because the injury/problem is readily visible as would be any regrowth. Ready to prove it and be the toast of christendom?

          February 26, 2014 at 6:52 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I know prayer works.

          I have tested it out. And I have naively thought it was some way to get all my wished granted or to prove to others I'm right.

          But that is not how it works.

          February 26, 2014 at 6:58 pm |
        • sealchan

          It would be better to say that prayer doesn't always work, because it doesn't. But that doesn't logically falsify it as a strategy. Game theory provides examples of strategies that are rational, optimal but not always guaranteed to work. When we make decisions we never know precisely the outcomes so we must adopt a strategy based on experience and, well, faith.

          February 26, 2014 at 7:34 pm |
        • hotairace

          Dalahast, please tell us how you tested prayer so that we can evaluate your methods and attempt to replicate them.

          February 26, 2014 at 7:39 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Get on your knees and pray that God make you actually as rational and logical as you imagine you are.

          If you start demonstrating logic and reason, well...

          February 26, 2014 at 7:44 pm |
        • hotairace

          How often, when, where, prayer for what, what were your controls, over what period of time did you conduct you tests, did you have any false positives or negatives, what was your margin of error, retreat ability, etc? Without these details, we must remain skeptical and withhold affirmation.

          February 26, 2014 at 7:49 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          You don't need to treat it like a science experiment. It is an experience that is uniquely human and very humbling.

          Treating it like something you can control and measure (and then what, package it and sell it) is thinking about the practice in the wrong way.

          If you have tried it and it doesn't work for you, don't do it.

          I have experienced that it does work. If you are honestly curious on how that works, we can talk.

          February 26, 2014 at 7:53 pm |
        • hotairace

          Of course prayer can be tested, and has been. You just don't want to admit that. You want to get away with "I tested it, you can't argue with my experience."

          Elsewhere I asked you if you agree that it's possible your god does not exist? What's your answer?

          February 26, 2014 at 7:57 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Prayer has been tested scientifically, but the methods have been severely questioned.

          Yes it is possible. It really doesn't appear to be probable, though.

          February 26, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
        • hotairace

          But you refuse to test prayer objectively yourself. Interesting.

          With respect to the existence of god, good, you may not be as delusional as I think. If you admit it is possible that your god does not exist, why do you believe it does? Why do you claim you *know* it exists? What would it take to cause you not to believe?

          February 26, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          + But you refuse to test prayer objectively yourself. Interesting.


          I can experience serenity and peace via spiritual practices like prayer and meditation. I also receive guidance and understanding that have proven to be helpful in my life.

          I don't need somebody else's objective test on whether prayer can grow new limbs to cause me to reject the benefits I have received from prayer.

          + With respect to the existence of god, good, you may not be as delusional as I think. If you admit it is possible that your god does not exist, why do you believe it does? Why do you claim you *know* it exists? What would it take to cause you not to believe?

          I have experienced God to be real. I know He exists because He gives me evidence of His existence. In His way, not the way of the internet atheists who imagine science is on their side and proves everything they need to know.

          There is definitely more to this world than meets the eye. If you wish to experience God... or that intelligence that authored the science we all marvel at, seek humility.

          Read about spiritual practices that encourage humility. And give it a shot. We are mind, body and spirit. Don't neglect the spirit. Many do.

          February 26, 2014 at 8:24 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          dala, "Prayer has been tested scientifically, but the methods have been severely questioned."

          If they were conducted the way that HAA describes, there should be no complaints – pretty standard stuff. What are examples of scientific methods that were severely questioned? Sounds more like the excuses made by astrologers and tarot card readers.

          February 26, 2014 at 8:55 pm |
        • hotairace

          Sorry, I was wrong earlier. You are as delusional as I previously thought.

          February 26, 2014 at 9:05 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Prayer is something you experience in your life. If you want to read about scientific studies on prayer, there are tons of material online.

          I don't need science to tell me that the guidance I receive and the serenity I experience exists.

          " Science cannot prove the existence or nonexistence of a suprahuman force or whether such an ent.ity answers prayer."


          Good one, HAA. I'm sure you imagine science proves you right. I hope that brings you serenity and peace of mind.

          February 26, 2014 at 10:16 pm |
        • hotairace

          I completely understand that science is not finished explaining everything and that it may never. But it far surpasses what religion and alleged but never proven gods have done. "We don't know." is a far superior answer than "Some god did it." Now go ahead, prattle on about how many believers have contributed to science. They have but they did it using the scientific method, not sitting around waiting for some alleged but never proven god to give them an answer. And even if their work seemed inspired by some alleged but never proven god, it was vetted by other scientist using the scientific method, not some mystical procedure from The Babble.

          February 26, 2014 at 10:25 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I've never just said "some God did it".

          Or that "The bible says its so, so it is so."

          Or lots of other notions people try to attach to me.

          For real, 100%: most atheists are not like you 6 to 10 regular posters who constantly berate and insult me with names like "delusional" or snide remarks like "don't harm children."

          THANK GOD! Why are there some atheists who are obsessed with God and philosophize about science? I don't know!

          It is an interesting phenomenon. Many joke about it. It is funny. Ironic. And the people participating are acting like the religious people they say they hate.

          "The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer." — Albert Einstein

          And apparently this is nothing new!

          February 26, 2014 at 10:36 pm |
  2. Apple Bush

    We let the religious freaks build their churches, gather and pray, whine and complain and we don't even make them pay taxes. Why can't they leave the rest of us alone??

    February 26, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      You don't let us do anything! You continue to thwart all our plans of domination by posting logical fallacies and misunderstandings about belief in God on Belief Blog message boards! You evil geniuses!

      February 26, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
      • Apple Bush

        There we go with the whining again. Oy!

        February 26, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
      • ausphor

        Hard to pin you down. You claim to be a Christian and go to church, what denomination? You seem to know the "truth" would you share that with us? You have been asked if there is a personal God that will eventually pass judgement on us all, is that true. Tell us a little about yourself, your opinions seem to change depending on how the wind blows. A POE a troll or a person with honest firm opinions, hard to tell so far?

        February 26, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
        • colin31714

          This will be good.

          February 26, 2014 at 4:51 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Eighth Day Resurrected Covenant of the Holy Trinity

          Who is "us"?

          February 26, 2014 at 4:56 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          Dal has perfected typing while wearing a straight jacket. He has 27 known personalities with 2 being atheist and 24 being various religions and one worshipping trolls.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:13 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Sometimes someone will say, oh you worship a sky fairy and bronze age bla bla bla....

          And I'll be like: "No".

          And then you say, "What, you are noooot a Christian? You are saying you don't believe in God????"

          It is pretty dumb tactic you keep resorting to.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
        • ausphor

          So you are Kenneth Parcell or one of his disciples, LOL. Got it now, no wonder I found your posts more of a joke than anything else. Well you are not to be taken seriously, thanks for that.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:23 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I, like most on here, really don't take you seriously. My posts in this thread have all been in jest.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:29 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          And who is "we"?

          I've never seen anyone come to your defense or support your notions or accusations.

          February 26, 2014 at 5:33 pm |
  3. Apple Bush

    My children laugh at religion and Jesus and I think that is just fine. They are right so why would I not let them express themselves?

    February 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      as do mine, but as I live in the South, I tell them not to speak of it to their friends and our neighbors. I'd have more friends coming out as a mass murderer here than as an atheist.

      February 26, 2014 at 5:15 pm |
  4. lunchbreaker

    Rocco DiGrazia's pizzeria sign: "We reserve the right to refuse service to Arizona legislators"

    February 26, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
    • observernow

      Looks like he should have been the governor.

      February 26, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
  5. lunchbreaker

    The ultimate stupidity of this law is the lack of a concrete method of identifying a gay person other than that person's admission.

    February 26, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Only hate-filled, miserable people would support this.

      February 26, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
  6. Dyslexic doG

    Yes Religion is under attack.

    It is under attack by the freedom of information to the young. It is becoming almost impossible for parents and clergy to control all input for young folk and they are reading or hearing facts (GASP!!!) and realizing that religion is just primitive voodoo. Religion's days are numbered!

    February 26, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
  7. Dyslexic doG

    God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance
    – deGràsse Tyson

    February 26, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      "Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn’t understand [and now we do understand] [...]. If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on – so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem. "

      No. I don't have a God of the gaps. Nicely put, deGràsse Tyson. Nicely put. I agree.

      February 26, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
    • Heaven Sent

      The only ignorance on these articles comes from the blind atheists, talking their lies to their atheist friends. The Lord shared the facts of creation with us in his gift to us, the Holy Bible. The foot that fell off is getting moldy now. Study your Bible and live for eternity.


      February 26, 2014 at 4:19 pm |
  8. igaftr

    If someone denies goods or services to someone because they are gay, does that same individual also deny any and all goods and services provided BY gay people?
    Unless they did, he/she would be extremely hypocritical.

    Imagine trying to NOT have goods and services from ANY gay people.

    You just might find yourself living of roots and grubs in a cave.

    February 26, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
    • Heaven Sent

      The atheists and gays want to be equal to Christ-abiding Christians but it will not happen. Your carnal lifestyle will keep you out of heaven. My 12-year-old daughter gets to keep her tips if she stays late. Keep your prideful songs loud and clear so your father can hear.


      February 26, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
  9. hotairace

    I wonder how long it will take for a believer to jump in here and declare the priest above not to be a true christian, a closet atheist. No more than 1 hour I think.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:57 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Well, he is Episcopalian after all, and you know, God forbid, they even have gay and women clergy.

      February 26, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
    • Heaven Sent

      The priest above is not a true Christian. You atheists come on these articles to spew the carnal message of satan. My camel-toe is volunteering at the soup kitchen next door. Your dusty old bones will be the toothpicks of the devil in hell.


      February 26, 2014 at 4:03 pm |
      • observernow

        It's a shame that they allow children on these blogs.

        February 26, 2014 at 4:22 pm |
        • Heaven Sent

          Atheists like you try to get the Christians kicked off these religious blogs. I hope you like worms because you will have your own worm feeding off your fat drippings for all eternity. My 12-year-old switched to filtered. Don't shoot the messenger, find Jesus and live forever.


          February 26, 2014 at 4:27 pm |
        • observernow

          Heaven Sent,

          I'm an agnostic, not an atheist and I've NEVER tried to get any Christian kicked off this blog. Don't worry about apologizing about being WRONG, we are used to it.

          You, however, aren't too bright and a LIAR.

          February 26, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • hotairace

          Umm, you've just been suckered. You need to read more carefully.

          February 26, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • igaftr

          This HS is just someone who likes to waste space on blogs. Note that the middle sentence is always some trailor trash cat lady.

          It is pointless to try to argue with it since a) whoever it is does not mean anything it writes, and B) it just makes this individual waste MORE space responding to people who resond to it.

          read HS posts more carefully and you will see it is just someone wasting peoples time.

          February 26, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • Heaven Sent


          Keep spewing the lies of satan on this blog and see where you end up for eternity. The Bible is proven to be 100% true. There is no more room in the oven for the puppies. Read Jesus' gift to us form Heaven, the Holy Bible.


          February 26, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
        • observernow

          I am familiar with "Heaven Sent" and the long sick list of aliases it uses. Sometimes I just have to draw the line on lies told about me.

          February 26, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Drats! I was going to post a pondering about how long it would take an anti-theist to jump in here and publicly wonder how long it would take for a believer to jump in here and declare the priest above not to be a true christian, a closet atheist.

      February 26, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
      • hotairace

        Your reaction time would be much quicker if your brain wasn't occupied trying to rationalize believing in an alleged but never proven god.

        February 26, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I know. If I didn't believe such silly things, I could spend all day long talking about not believing in God with you!

          February 26, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
  10. bootyfunk

    poor religion.
    we can't have everything your way.
    there's a right to free commerce in this country.
    can't tell people they aren't allowed to shop someplace because they are a woman, a different color or g.ay.
    boohoohoo, when will they stop oppressing you?

    February 26, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
    • Heaven Sent

      Keep on spewing the lies of satan on this blog. The Christians are already saved so we fear nothing from your rotting bones. The kittens are getting good at catching cockroaches. Straighten up and fly right or roast.


      February 26, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
  11. colin31714

    As I said this morning, religion is fine when it is all play and nothing serious flows from the beliefs; like the make-believe condiments served at a little girl’s tea party. However, when there are real World consequences that flow, religious beliefs must be subordinated to science and to equitable social policies. For example, nobody cares when the Christian prays to their god that their child overcome an illness, because it is harmless foolery. However, if they pray IN LIEU of giving the child the medical care he or she needs, then they enter the real world and must be curtailed.

    Here, nobody cares about the Christians who, deep down, believe gays are sinners, provided no social consequences flow from the belief. But, if they try and effect social policy, such as denying gays their rights based on their primitive superst.ition, then they, likewise, must be reigned in.

    Christians are free to get together and pretend some god is paying attention to them, monitoring their thoughts and deeds, allocating them after they die to heaven, hell, limbo, purgatory or whatever other magic never-never lands they believe in and paying attention to their $ex lives, but it must stop at the point where it actually means anything.

    Like the drinks served at the infantile tea party, religion is a fine when we all accept it is all pretend.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:49 pm |
  12. ausphor

    Of course religions are under attack not just in AZ but around the world. Religion has lost its strangle hold on knowledge with the creation of the .www and the tyrant nations still left in the world, their biggest challenge is how to stop the spread of knowledge. Knowledge may someday lead to a totally free world without religion.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
    • bootyfunk

      nail on the head.
      the internet and fact-checking is killing religion.
      it'll go screaming and kicking - but it'll go.

      February 26, 2014 at 3:49 pm |
  13. Doris

    Sensibility is under attack in Arizona, and much of Africa.

    Sorry, RCC & Anglican Communion. Richard Branson spoke candidly first. You fail....

    February 26, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
  14. Rynomite

    Bigotry is under attack in Arizona.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
  15. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    Hopefully Gov. Brewer will veto this bill and this whole farcical sideshow will simply disappear.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
    • hotairace

      I bet it is rehashed in the next gubernatorial race and other occasions until it gets passed and subsequently slapped down by the US Supreme Court, upon which not a single atheist has ever sat.

      February 26, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        Honestly I'm content that there are no evangelical protestants on the SCOTUS.

        Six catholics and three jews if anyone is interested. Not a protestant amongst them, which I believe was a first as of 2010.

        February 26, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
      • SeaVik

        Correction: a single non-closeted atheist. It would be extrordinarily unlikely statistically that we've never had an atheist in the supreme court, or as a President for that matter.

        February 26, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
  16. SeaVik

    It's under attack there and everywhere in the world and rightfully so. Religions inst.itutionalize childhood brain-washing, creating adults who think it's just to discriminate and appropriate to perpetuate the cycle of ignorance and hatred by brain-washing their own children as well.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
  17. hotairace

    Strict separation of church and state is not an attack on religion. It is forcing delusionals to practice their insanity within their own homes or cult clubhouses where it belongs, hopefully among consenting adults only.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
  18. joeyy1


    February 26, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
    • observernow

      Quit the spamming.

      February 26, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      CNN. Can you do anything about this tool?

      February 26, 2014 at 4:21 pm |
  19. observernow

    Religion should be "under attack" when HYPOCRITICAL followers use it as an excuse to deny others equal rights.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
  20. yukon67

    It feels to me that there is a national surge of secularism. Long overdue, in my opinion. More, especially our youth, are realizing that religion can be just as constrictive on freedoms as it is liberating of souls.

    February 26, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
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