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February 28th, 2014
12:08 PM ET
Opinion: #HotJesus: Must He be sexy?Opinion by Carol Costello, CNN Editor's note: Carol Costello anchors the 9 to 11 a.m. ET edition of CNN's "Newsroom" each weekday. Watch at 9:40 a.m. ET Thursday for a discussion of the new film about Jesus. (CNN) - Clearly Jesus was sexy. After all, He is the Son of God. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but as I watched the trailer for the new movie, "Son of God," I found myself gawking at the actor portraying Jesus. Diogo Morgado is one hot dude. His Jesus looks more like Brad Pitt than that nice man with the beard in all those paintings. I'm not the only one gawking at Morgodo's Jesus. He inspired the hashtag, "#HotJesus". It went viral on Twitter. The actor told The New York Times he doesn't want his looks to distract from the movie, but, "If the message of Jesus was love, hope and compassion, and I can bring that to more people by being a more appealing Jesus, I am happy with that." Clearly we have a new trend. A "more appealing" Jesus is not just a better prophet, he's ... sexy. FULL STORY
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Theo Phileo,
Who is JD Collins?
Regarding the Jesus Seminarians:
"The Jesus Seminarians: Contemporary NT exegetes specializing in historic Jesus studies. Requirements to join, typically a PhD in Religious History or Religion with a proven record of scholarship through reviews of first to third century CE scripture and related docu-ments."
Do you qualify???
After been without work for 6 months, I started freelancing over this site and with a little effort I easily bring in around $65 to $95 per/h! Without any doubt, it's the easiest and most financially rewarding job I've ever had. It changed my life for the better and now I couldn't be happier. This is what I do... Jobs29.com
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_F9nIps46w&w=640&h=360]
*
#Oscar2014highlights
Darlene Love's impromptu onstage rendition &
Matthew McConaughey's acceptance speech
"So, when Isaiah makes a prophecy about the vicarious subst.itutionary, sacrificial, atoning death of the Messiah in Isaiah 53, giving details about His death, burial, resurrection, and exaltation so as to be unmistakably a prophecy about Jesus, they interpreted that.... How exactly?"
Easy – do you see the word "messiah" anywhere in that passage? This is an example of Christian retro-theology (first made popular by Paul). If you "know" that jesus was god and the messiah, then you can go back and find prophecies (that had nothing to do with the messiah) that seem to fit the formula of what you "know". If you start with a different premise (that Isaiah was speaking to his own times and what must be done to be right with god), it's very easy to come to a different interpretation.
Dang it... supposed to be in reponse to theo...
Then let's break down Isaiah 53 and see if it can refer to anyone other than the Messiah...
Isaiah 53:1...His people would not believe Him... John 12:37-38
Isaiah 53:2a...He would grow up in a poor family.... Luke 2:7
Isaiah 53:2b...Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8
Isaiah 53:3a...Despised.... Luke 4:28-29
Isaiah 53:3b...Rejected... Matthew 27:21-23
Isaiah 53:3c...Great sorrow and grief... Luke 19:41-42
Isaiah 53:3d...Men hide from being associated with Him... Mark 14:50-52
Isaiah 53:4a...He would have a healing ministry... Luke 6:17-19
Isaiah 53:4b...He would bear the sins of the world... 1 Pet. 2:24
Isaiah 53:4c...Thought to be cursed by God... Matthew 27:41-43
Isaiah 53:5a...Bears penalty for mankind's transgressions... Luke 23:33
Isaiah 53:5b...His sacrifice would provide peace between man and God... Col. 1:20
Isaiah 53:5c...His back would be whipped... Matthew 27:26
Isaiah 53:6a...He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind...Galatians 1:4
Isaiah 53:6b...God's will that He bear sin for all mankind... 1 John 4:10
Isaiah 53:7a...Oppressed and afflicted... Matthew 27:27-31
Isaiah 53:7b...Silent before his accusers... Matthew 27:12-14
Isaiah 53:7c...Sacrificial lamb... John 1:29
Isaiah 53:8a...Confined and persecuted... Matthew 26:47-27:31
Isaiah 53:8b...He would be judged... John 18:13-22
Isaiah 53:8c...Killed.... Matthew 27:35
Isaiah 53:8d...Dies for the sins of the world... 1 John 2:2
Isaiah 53:9a...Buried in a rich man's grave... Matthew 27:57
Isaiah 53:9b...Innocent and had done no violence... Mark 15:3
Isaiah 53:9c...No deceit in his mouth... John 18:38
Isaiah 53:10a...God's will that He die for mankind... John 18:11
Isaiah 53:10b...An offering for sin... Matthew 20:28
Isaiah 53:10c...Resurrected and live forever.... Mark 16:16
Isaiah 53:10d...He would prosper... John 17:1-5
Isaiah 53:11a...God fully satisfied with His suffering... John 12:27
Isaiah 53:11b...God's servant... Romans. 5:18-19
Isaiah 53:11c...He would justify man before God... Romans. 5:8-9
Isaiah 53:11d...The sin-bearer for all mankind... Hebrews 9:28
Isaiah 53:12a...Exalted by God because of his sacrifice... Matthew 28:18
Isaiah 53:12b...He would give up his life to save mankind... Luke 23:46
Isaiah 53:12c...Grouped with criminals... Luke 23:32
Isaiah 53:12d...Sin-bearer for all mankind... 2 Corinthians 5:21
Isaiah 53:12e...Intercede to God in behalf of mankind... Luke 23:34
Now, that's one Messianic prophecy from one prophet. I've got a list of 365 Messianic prophecies from the Old Covenant if you want to dig a little deeper into this.
And today we consider Isaiah a fortune teller whose word were used by P, M, M, L and J to weave a fictional account of the life of an illiterate preacher "magic man" named Jesus.
Oops, make that "whose words" were used.
"And today we consider Isaiah a fortune teller whose word were used by P, M, M, L and J to weave a fictional account of the life of an illiterate preacher "magic man" named Jesus."
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You cannot say with any expectation of certainty that you "KNOW" that the Bible is a fictional tale. Especially when all of the evidence points to it being a factual account. (The writings of the early church fathers, the secular historians, the evidence of history, the evidence of fulfilled prophecy, the evidence of nature, and on, and on...)
Furthermore, the fact that you claimed that Jesus was illiterate proves that you have never even read the Bible in the first place, so why should anyone believe that you have any idea of what you're talking about?
"all of the evidence points to it being a factual account."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Comedy Gold!!!
The illiteracy of the simple preacher man aka Jesus, as per some co-ntemporary experts:
From Professor Bruce Chilton's commentary in his book, Rabbi Jesus, An In-timate Biography, p. 99,
"What Luke misses is that Jesus stood in the synagogue as an illiterate m–amzer (pp. 98-102) in his claim to be the Lord's a-nointed".
Note: Luke 4: 16 is a single attestation. No where else in the NT does it say Jesus could read thereby making said pa-ssage historically unreliable. (Luke 4:16-24) has been compared to a number of other pa-ssage and found to be equivalent with the exception of Luke 4: 16 which is the only pa-ssage in the list of equivalents that mentions reading:
Continued from above:
GThom. 31 & P. O-xy. 1.31
(2) Mark 6:1-6a = Matt 13:53-58
(3) Luke 4:16-24
(4) John 4:44
Professor JD Crossan notes that Jesus was illiterate coming from a landless pe-asant background, initially a follower of John the Baptist. e.g. The Exc-av-a-tion of Jesus (with Professor Reed), pp 30-31..
The question of Jesus literacy has also been much discussed by the Jesus Seminar and others and they note that references in the Gospels to Jesus reading and writing may well be fi-ctions.
The only Gospel reference to Jesus writing is John 8:6 in the Peri-c-ope A-dult-erae, widely considered a later addition, where it is not even clear he is forming letters in the dust, and the Greek "εγ-ραφεν" could equally mean he was drawing.
Luke 2: 41-52, the twelve year old Jesus in the temple- As per Professor Gerd Ludemann in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 275, " the episode is unhistorical" (again, a single attestaion). See also http://wiki.faithfutures.or-g/index.php?ti–tle=433_Jesus_at_Twelve
It is very unfortunate that Jesus was illiterate for it resulted in many gospels and epistles being written years after his death by non-witnesses. This resulted in significant differences in said gospels and epistles and with many embellishments to raise Jesus to the level of a deity to compete with the Roman gods and emperors. See Raymond Brown's book, An Introduction to the New Testament, (Luke 4:16 note on p. 237) for an exhaustive review of the true writers of the gospels and epistles.
Of course, Muslims believe that Mohammed was also illiterate. This way, they can claim that the only way he could have received the "angelic", koranic pa-ssages of death to all inf-idels and Islamic do-mination of the globe by any means, was o-rally since he could not read or write.
Reality,
JD Collins is one of the founders of the Jesus Seminar. They are a pack of historical revisionists akin to those who say that the Confederate States of America won the War of Northern Aggression in 1865.
Good post!
Well you didn't think they were going to make Gullible's Travels, Part 2 not fit the script of Part 1, did you??
Why is it surprising that the NT would claim Jesus fullfilled OT prophacy? The writers of the NT were very aware of the OT, so the fact that the NT was written in such a way as to try and shoehorn the story to fit the prophacy should be expected. How is that considered the least bit extraordinary?
And THIS is why we have the 2nd Commandment. Not only does God forbid the worship of images, but God forbids the worship of God THROUGH images. That means that if a visual image changes your perspective on who Jesus is, then it becomes an idol, and must be removed.
Movies about Jesus are fine, but think Ben Hur – you never see His face. We aren't told in scripture what Jesus looked like, and I think there's a very good reason for that. Appearances are what are foolishly important to men, not God.
Isaiah 53:2 – He has no stately form or majesty that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
Sounds a bit Muslimy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that a muslim would be quoting Messianic prophecies from Isaiah...
Sure they would. They just wouldkn't share your belief they were in regards to future messiah.
Why? Most Muslims regard Isaiah as a prophet.
I wonder why they regard him as a prophet when they don't believe what he said?
Who said they don't believe him? They might interpret what he said differently to Christians but that doesn't mean they don't believe him.
So, when Isaiah makes a prophecy about the vicarious subst.itutionary, sacrificial, atoning death of the Messiah in Isaiah 53, giving details about His death, burial, resurrection, and exaltation so as to be unmistakably a prophecy about Jesus, they interpreted that.... How exactly?
Muslims consider him a prophet, but not a Messenger.
Messengers are those who relay God's words directly as guidance including Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.
All Messengers are prophets, but not all prophets are Messengers.
I don't know. Ask a Muslim.
The last 50 years or so have been nothing but the propagation of image worship and the elevation of the modern heroic ideal to mythical proportions.
This ideal is ego unchained; god on earth; the golden calf; whether a movie star, a football player or a politician. He is the colossus whose shade eases the uncertainty of all those who gather below. He is the emanation of the dreams of those who crowd together at his feet. He is their unearned and unattainable expectation.
We dreamily watch and admire legions of Heroes in all domains in a way no civilization has ever done.
http://www.Hear-The-Truth.com
and http://HearTheTruth.imgur.com
The truth is this site does not deal in truth.
Of course, the savior has to hot. Why else would believers flog their naughty bits thinking about him?
in the picture above, jesus is doing squats to keep his gleuts tight. so hawt!
squats and lunges are the way to do it
He is a faithful savior. The baptism of the holy spirit has been the best experience if my life.
I am changing and the Lord is the champion of faith AND forgiveness.
Come as yiu are! HE s able and willing.
so, you were vengeful angry drunk who damaged churches
now, you are a vengeful, angry christian who wants to blow up liquor stores
sounds like a really good savior
so, you just switched drugs, from booze to jeebus
One addiction for another...I think the boy received from major brain damage in the crash and then some lying preacher got his hands on him and damaged the poor delusional boys brain further. Our only hope is that he is found and safely locked away from society, never to be allowed near weapons or vehicles or booze or children or anything living/other human's outside of those injecting him with his meds.
It is not interesting at all whether Jesus was attractive. Most people we are concerned with, we do not weigh up according to their appearance but according to their behaviour. The behaviour or character of somebody is crucial, not his appearance.
And that is what made Jesus so great – his perfect behaviour or character. He who was sinless loved people despite their sinfulness. Jesus did not judge like the Scribes and Pharisees. He even received the baptism of John the Baptist. By this baptism was proclaimed that the person to be baptized is a sinner needing a deliverer. Yet, Jesus himself was in fact the great Deliverer. He was not in need of a deliverer, and he was no sinner at all. By getting baptized Jesus joined the fellowship of us sinners.
After John's baptism of repentance and preaching of repentance, certainly many Jews seriously tried to change their lives. They really tried to cease from sinning, and to love their fellow human beings. Yet, the more they did that, the more they felt their intrinsic sinfulness. But, thank God, after John the Baptist came Jesus, the Deliverer. He told the poor sinners things like that: "Come on, and follow me!", or "Your sins are forgiven!" By that divine words God-Lord Jesus (Kyrios Jesus) set the people free. Jesus' words were much more powerful than the words of an ordinary man because Jesus was God's Son. Jesus set free the people with the same power with which he had once made heaven and earth (gigantic).
How can we experience such releasing words today?
That takes place through sacramental baptism where the Church baptizes us in Jesus name, and that is the same as if He would personally talk with us (sacramental baptism includes infant baptism; no rebaptism).
Before baptism becomes effective for us, we have to repent seriously, and to accept the gospel as true, also the teaching about the meaning of baptism.
http://confessingchurch.wordpress.com
The sacrifice of Jesus was not only about forgiveness but he did more.
According to Bonhoeffer and the Early Church: Jesus has borne our sinful flesh, the whole sinful mankind. Together with Jesus died the degenerated, sinful nature of man.
He has eliminated the problem of the sinful nature of men since the Fall.
Through faith in Jesus we do not get just forgiveness but also our old sinful nature gets declared dead. The sin gets dethroned.
When we make use of that truth, our life will become better gradually despite our body which is still sinful.
We have a free will. God will never violate our free will. Yet, we are sinful, completely sinful. If God had changed us without Jesus sacrifice he had to make us new personalities (new wills), but that had meant the destruction of us in the sinful state. That had meant our psychological annihilation.
Therefore God Jesus died for us, and together with him our old man of sin, we as sinners. We as sinners are dead through Jesus sacrifice. Yet, our will has not been damaged in any way. Through faith we can daily, more and more, accept voluntarily that we have died for the sin, and change gradually.
God has found a way to make us new without violating us, or destroying our personality which we yet had under the sin
The gospel:
God, the Father, delivered God, the Son, Jesus, for our sins, and raised him from the dead for our justification.
Repent seriously, accept the gospel as true (believe), and get sacramentally baptized, or remember your infant baptism, if you have yet been baptized as an infant. Even the infant baptism of the RCC is valid although the RCC has turned apostate from her Lord. Reason: The invisible baptist is God himself, and the baptism is only celebrated by the Church. It plays no role, how corrupted a Church is, baptism is valid because the power comes from heaven and not from the church. Only the baptism of re-baptizing Free Churches is not valid.
.
Or one can throw salt over their shoulder... 🙄
Great post. I was blessed to read that. My post unfortunately went up there.
Question...what is the free church and re baptism?
Drinking a bit already this morning, Austin? If this blog were a straight road, I'd say you're weaving.
I myself regard churches practising re-baptism as Free Churches – that certainly isn't completely wrong.
Free Churches baptize people again having yet been baptized as infants because they assume infant baptism wouldn't be valid.
Yet, I claim that infant baptism is always vaild. It is only that it becomes effective at first when we repent, and start to believe that Jesus died, and rose for us. Actually the mainline churches should baptize infants only if the parents are faithful and the pastor and the whole congregation. Today many little children of outrageous sinners are baptized (also the congregation is sinful and the pastor), and that is an abuse of infant baptism. However, if such a child of sinners becomes a believer in his riper years, he can refer to his infant baptism which is valid nevertheless.
Yes, I suppose when some people rub garlic above the door frame to ward off vampires, they just don't use the right technique. It won't work on them without the proper technique. (I think rubbing in a counter-clockwise direction is a no-no.)
As you can see Doris, Rainer drinks copious amounts of the Kool-aid every hour or so. He is SO arrogant, he actually thinks he knows the mind of a deity that made 600 se'xtillion stars, (or not). At least he good for being a mascot for fundies.
I see you grew a middle name. But Helmut ? It fits you perfectly.
Bonhoeffer also also said "the god who loves us also deserts us", (Letters and Papers From Prison)
You do know he died an atheist, I hope.
Stick that in your stein and smoke it.
lGod is special and he shares.
I dream about the future.
Jesus will return.
Abraham isaac jacob levi moses
Then they received the promise after 5 generations. Aaron moses brother led them in.HE IS COMING.
I have proof.
Sure you do dear. Sure you do.
Just be sure the nurse knows when it's time for bed, so she can get all your pills ready.
Heavy emphasis on "all." You (Austin) seem a little short on medication.
if you have proof, supply it
There are two and only two options regarding Austin :
1. He is someone's online creation, trolling for whatever reaction s/he can get.
2. He is a legitimate poster, in which case he is one of the more prolific liars on these boards.
Agreed.
Or a novice comedian practicing his standup routine. I mean, no one takes his stuff seriously.
"HE IS COMING" – Austin
I know there's a joke in here somewhere, but you know, the censors........
Why do some Christians from the U.S. travel to other countries and incite violence against people?
Why do some Christians officially categorizes the Pope as the Antichrist?
Why do some Christians help spread disease (because of the unrealistic stance on contraception)?
Why do some Christians let sick child die rather than seek medical care?
Why do some Christians treat women still as inferiors in their organization?
Why do some Christians still sacrifice people?
Why do some Christians believe that Jesus and Satan were brothers and that Christ will return to Jerusalem AND Jackson County, Missouri?
Why do some Christians believe that Americans are being killed at war because America is tolerant of homosexuals?
Why do some Christians believe the OT is superseded by the NT and some not?
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"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." –Thomas Jefferson
People are like that regardless.
Who is Jesus? Who are you?
I suggest.you chase God right where you are.
He wants you to.
God had his testosterone tested. Turns out he's a she.
How many people do you know, Austin, who travel to Uganda to incite violence against other human beings based on their belief? Beside Scott Lively and his crew, of course..
None
He sounds like knights templar. Order from chaos.
Or just a crazy protester.
So then it just the Christian Evangelical. I imagine his rationale for believing his causes are righteous are very similar to yours, Austin. Based on the posts I've seen from you so far..
(So then it's just... )
Im not responsible or embarrased by apostates who cant read and comprehend the new testament.
I dont entangle myself with the affairs of the lost either. I stay on the gospel and God prepares the heart and reveals truth.
HEY that was nice symphony music. Thanks for sharing!
"Im not responsible or embarrased by apostates who cant read and comprehend the new testament."
This is exactly what Jefferson is speaking to. Everyone thinking they have the correct interpretation. That's what's resulted in the insanity.
Jefferson is a freak risicrusion and he lacked a full faith. He did not trust the word
Thats why liberals quote him.
Liberal was the wrong word. Thats why unbelievers use his quotes as a foothold of false reasoning.
There truly is a lot of insanity. Forgiveness and liberty is in the new testament and nothing about punishment.
Everything you hate i probably agree with you accept the notion of salvation. The church is not a politacal activist. Its a spiritual kingdom that has the sole purpose of the gospel and love.
It shouldn't take Jefferson nor a rocket scientist to see that insanity.
Austin: "Forgiveness and liberty is in the new testament and nothing about punishment."
Yes, well that's what I hear it's supposed to be about. That is not what I hear from you, nor many others who attempt to push their conflicted, unfounded judgment onto others that don't share your view.
Thankfully we have separation of church and state, so that at least here in the U.S., I can, for the most part, ignore your insanity.
Doris, Austin is not responsible for the people traveling to Uganda. That's like saying Ozzy is responsible for Miranda Barbour.
Ahahaha. Ozzy.
"Doris, Austin is not responsible for the people traveling to Uganda."
Where did I say that? Show me where...
Doris.
Have a great night !
True not directly stated but appears implied with the above discourse. If I am mistaken I apologize.
Doris
How many people do you know, Austin, who travel to Uganda to incite violence against other human beings based on their belief? Beside Scott Lively and his crew, of course..
March 1, 2014 at 10:05 pm | Reply
Austin
None
He sounds like knights templar. Order from chaos.
Or just a crazy protester.
March 1, 2014 at 10:10 pm |
Doris
So then it just the Christian Evangelical. I imagine his rationale for believing his causes are righteous are very similar to yours, Austin. Based on the posts I've seen from you so far..
Yes, and not even implied. I am merely speaking to the similarities in basis of judgment that I have seen to date.
you know what god wants?
how special
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_F9nIps46w&w=640&h=360]
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His Jesus looks more like Brad Pitt than that nice man with the beard in all those paintings...........
Since JESUS IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER IN A BADLY WRITTEN BOOK....YOU CAN MAKE HIM LOOK ANYWAY YOU WANT....IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Had a buddy when I lived down south that had the full set of "black jesus" pictures. Nativity, last supper, stations of the cross, you name it.
i had another vision from feb 2 come true. I wrote that my cousin bill was unconscious in the hospital.
now yesterday i heard he had 85 percent heart failure and that he has limited options and has to have major heart surgery and probably a ventricular pump.
i have seen him 3 times in the last 25 years, never had another dream about him.
this is well over 30 of these things, and I have explained how many of these supernatural experiences started out as visions about the word of God as i was reading through the bible.
I know the source of these visions. Supernatural spiritual life is a promise and fact.
Come to the cross. Jesus loves you.
he has been in the hospital for almost a week.
Austin....you are a liar and a coward
I have not ever lied to you.
My cousin is hete in hospital from a hospital four hours west. They sent him here.
fair enough, you are simply a delusional coward.
feel better?
you refuse to submit your delusions to critical review
coward
you interpret your dreams as something special
delusional
The person you lie to, is yourself.
Real bucky. Over the last year since i began telling yall about the pasr revelations i jave experienced revelation in the present time and timenand time again. In have had prophetic vision confirmed 3 time in the last 2 months.
Eagle and shoes. And the bulk email.
The girl who overdosed and my ex mother
This current cousin in the hospital.
Yes dear, Whatever you say.
Whatever you say.
Sure you did.
Austin, you're not having 'visions' - you're have every day run of the mill dreams. just dreams. don't make something out of nothing. you don't dream the future or anything like that. sorry to tell you - you're not that special and you have no magical powers. try living in the really-real world instead of make-believe land.
Austin, first of all I am sorry about your family I hope he's doing better now. Heart problems are very scary.
Second, this is a topic that holds a lot of interest to me. Wouldn't it be more logical to say you had a real life event that resembled one of your dreams than to say you had a dream because of an event that occurred after it?
Durado8 i write them down. . This was written down feb 2. I heard yesterday frim my aunt that he was here in hospital.
It was then that i recalled something . I went home and went through the last few months and found what i wrote.
Now i report not based on logic but experience and truth about 2 objective situations.
It doesn't match up with a time line. Two occasions I would probably think as coincidence. I have heard friends report similar things where they would dream of a loved one's death and then that same person died. It's an interesting topic.
Great – you're a psychic. I've yet to see any evidence of there being anything "divine" about your "visions", other than your own biasis of course.
Durado. This is a spiritual gift . I have been explaining this to people here for over a year not to mention giving numerous examples from present confirmations of the spiritual revelation.
It is my pleasure to inform people bout what God has given me in my life through the name and blood of Christ.
Hatred for Jesus is a part of doubt which none of us escape on our own.
I believe that His will is to help doubters through tje resurrection power of His supernatural holy spirit.
"Hatred for Jesus is a part of doubt which none of us escape on our own"
I have to take exception for this point, I can't say I have any hatred for Jesus. The amount of doubt I have, however is extensive. Having any hatred of a historical figure is absurd to me. Believing a historical figure came back from the dead is also absurd to me.
When I use the word absurd, also I hope your realize I honestly do not mean it disrespectfully to you. I just find the idea incomprehensible and impossible.
So he's using science, not prayer to cure himself.
Did Jebus tell you in a dream how to do heart surgery ?
Are you going to thank the surgery team or Jebus when/if he pulls through ?
jesus had long hair, a great tan and washboard abs, hung out with 12 dudes and never got with a woman...
pretty sure jesus would be pro-same s.ex marriage.
Sinless savior had no union with sin.
That would make your comment a joke .
you really don't know what jesus did between 12 and 30, do you?
Are we not all Sons/ Daughters of the Christian god???
And then there is this:
What some of the experts (NT, historical Jesus scholars) have to say about the "Son of God/the Father references in the NT:
Matt 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
Not said by the historical Jesus, but more embellishment my Matthew. http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb111.html
Matt 9:6 Passage notes "Son of Man" not Son of God.
http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb127.html
Matt 10:32-33, ""Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; /33/ but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven"
"Ludemann [Jesus, 344] states " this is a prophetic admonition from the post-Easter community. For it, Jesus and the Son of man were 'identical in the future: Jesus will return in the near future as the Son of man with the clouds of heaven. In his earthly life he was not yet the Son of man, since he will come to judgment only with the clouds of heaven (Dan. 7.13f) at the end of days' (Haenchen)."
Matt 11:27 "All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb045.html
"Lüdemann [Jesus, 330f] invokes the classic description from K. Hase of this passage as a "thunderbolt from the Johannine heavens." He notes the typically Johannine reference to mutual knowledge between Father and Son, and the absolute use of "Son" as a designation for Jesus. In dismissing the saying's authenticity, Luedemann also notes the similarity to ideas in the post-Easter commissioning scene at Matt 28:18, "All authority has been given to me ..."
Matt 1:20- 225 (another "pretty, wingie thingie requirement)
20/ But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. /21/ She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." /22/ All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: /23/ "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means, "God is with us." /24/ When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife, /25/ but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus."
"Bruce Chilton
In Rabbi Jesus: An Intimate Biography (2000), Chilton develops the idea of Jesus as a mamzer; someone whose irregular birth circ-umstances result in their exclusion from full participation in the life of the community. He argues for the natural paternity of Joseph and finds no need for a miraculous conception. In his subsequent reconstruction of Jesus' life, Chilton suggests that this sustained personal experience of exclusion played a major role in Jesus' self-identi-ty, his concept of God and his spiritual quest. "
Mark 1: 11 And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased."
http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb058.html
"Gerd Lüdemann
Lüdemann [Jesus, 9] affirms the historicity of Jesus being baptized by John, but does not trace the theological interpretations back beyond the post-Easter community:
... Jesus did not regard his baptism as appointment to be the son of God. The underlying concept derives from the community, which believed in Jesus as the son of God (cf. Gal. 2.16; 4.4) and located his appointment within his lifetime. In the earliest period, for example, the appointment of Jesus as son of God came only after his resurrection from the dead (cf. Rom. 1.4).
"John P. Meier
The second volume of A Marginal Jew devotes considerable space to a study of John as "mentor" to Jesus. The historicity of the baptism is addressed on pages 100-105, before considering the meaning of Jesus' baptism on pages 106-116. On the basis of the criterion of embarrassment, supported by a limited proposal for multiple attestation (relying on possible echoes of a Q version in John's Gospel and in 1 John 5:6), Meier concludes:
We may thus take the baptism of Jesus by John as the firm historical starting point for any treatment of Jesus' public ministry. (II,105)
Having established the historicity of the baptism event, Meier is adamant that the narrative must be seen as a Christian midrash, drawing on various OT themes to assert the primacy of Jesus over John. In particular, Meier insists that the theophany must be excluded from all attempts to understand the event, since it is a later Christian invention rather than a surviving memory of some actual spiritual experience of Jesus.
Meier's discussion of the meaning of the baptism puts great weight on the fact that accepting baptism implied Jesus' agreement with John's apocalyptic message, and also engages at length with the question of Jesus' sinlessness."
Bottom line: Jesus was just another human who is being recycled to eventual star dust just like the rest of us!!!!
What does your scholar say about supernatural gifts suxh as prophecy and word of knowledge?
What happened when jesus was baptised by john?
He got wet.
Christians seem to be attracted to idolatry as much as pagans. You don't see Jews falling into that trap since Moses.
some people take longer to learn than others.... for some, an 11 day journey will take the full 40 yrs.
You lashed at Jews (who I don't care about), before you even read the comment. It says they learned to follow their God's commandment, and Christians haven't in thousands of years. In their zeal to gain members, Christians adopted pagan rituals. Some are direct contradictions of their God's commandments.
b: You lashed at Jews (who I don't care about), before you even read the comment
huh??? you must be addressing someone else.
I responded to: "Christians seem to be attracted to idolatry as much as pagans."
which I was actually agreeing with, but making the case that it's because some of us take longer to learn (what the idols are that we have in our lives) than others.... so where it may take some people 11 days (or a short period of time)... it takes others 40 yrs (or a longer period of time or a lifetime).
For the record, I do not hate any group, and have a special place for the Jewish people.
It is not interesting at all whether Jesus was attractive. Most people we are concerned with, we do not weigh up according to their appearance but according to their behaviour. The behaviour or character of somebody is crucial, not his appearance.
And that is what made Jesus so great – his perfect behaviour or character. He who was sinless loved people despite their sinfulness. Jesus did not judge like the Scribes and Pharisees. He even received the baptism of John the Baptist. By this baptism was proclaimed that the person to be baptized is a sinner needing a deliverer. Yet, Jesus himself was in fact the great Deliverer. He was not in need of a deliverer, and he was no sinner at all. By getting baptized Jesus joined the fellowship of us sinners.
After John's baptism of repentance and preaching of repentance, certainly many Jews seriously tried to change their lives. They really tried to cease from sinning, and to love their fellow human beings. Yet, the more they did that, the more they felt their intrinsic sinfulness. But, thank God, after John the Baptist came Jesus, the Deliverer. He told the poor sinners things like that: "Come on, and follow me!", or "Your sins are forgiven!" By that divine words God-Lord Jesus (Kyrios Jesus) set the people free. Jesus' words were much more powerful than the words of an ordinary man because Jesus was God's Son. Jesus set free the people with the same power with which he had once made heaven and earth (gigantic).
How can we experience such releasing words today?
That takes place through sacramental baptism where the Church baptizes us in Jesus name, and that is the same as if He would personally talk with us (sacramental baptism includes infant baptism; no rebaptism).
Before baptism becomes effective for us, we have to repent seriously, and to accept the gospel as true, also the teaching about the meaning of baptism.
http://confessingchurch.wordpress.com
The sacrifice of Jesus was not only about forgiveness but he did more.
According to Bonhoeffer and the Early Church: Jesus has borne our sinful flesh, the whole sinful mankind. Together with Jesus died the degenerated, sinful nature of man.
He has eliminated the problem of the sinful nature of men since the Fall.
Through faith in Jesus we do not get just forgiveness but also our old sinful nature gets declared dead. The sin gets dethroned.
When we make use of that truth, our life will become better gradually despite our body which is still sinful.
We have a free will. God will never violate our free will. Yet, we are sinful, completely sinful. If God had changed us without Jesus sacrifice he had to make us new personalities (new wills), but that had meant the destruction of us in the sinful state. That had meant our psychological annihilation.
Therefore God Jesus died for us, and together with him our old man of sin, we as sinners. We as sinners are dead through Jesus sacrifice. Yet, our will has not been damaged in any way. Through faith we can daily, more and more, accept voluntarily that we have died for the sin, and change gradually.
God has found a way to make us new without violating us, or destroying our personality which we yet had under the sin.
The gospel:
God, the Father, delivered God, the Son, Jesus, for our sins, and raised him from the dead for our justification.
Repent seriously, accept the gospel as true (believe), and get sacramentally baptized, or remember your infant baptism, if you have yet been baptized as an infant. Even the infant baptism of the RCC is valid although the RCC has turned apostate from her Lord. Reason: The invisible baptist is God himself, and the baptism is only celebrated by the Church. It plays no role, how corrupted a Church is, baptism is valid because the power comes from heaven and not from the church. Only the baptism of re-baptizing Free Churches is not valid.
amusing that you feel you need to be justified, rainy.
And Rainer's brainwashed Lutheranism continues to ooze from his lips and pores.
Actually there is no Lutheranism but only Christianity. I have nothing to do with the so-called German Lutherans who supported the Nazis.
rainy is the one who defines True Christianity (TM)
well, rainy and saint corn pone
If that's how you feel, Rainer, I expect never to see you bash Catholicism again, because, you know, there's no Lutherism, or Catholicism, or Calvinism; only Christianity.
Good luck on that, Akira
Just keep repeating that, but maybe add some dragons and vampires. Maybe some day, someone will buy it.
"We have a free will. God will never violate our free will."
Except, of course, for when God killed all but 8 people on the earth. Not a lot of free will for the children, babies and fetuses.
Something similar will happen again but God gives us enough time to change sides until that day of wrath.
God is extremly patient.
"God is extremly patient."
Except, of course, for when God killed all but 8 people on the earth. Not a lot of patience for the children, babies and fetuses.
The poeple he killed were all violent criminals according to Genesis.
Rainer Helmut Braendlein
"The poeple he killed were all violent criminals according to Genesis"
Please read a Bible and try to develop some logic.
What babies and fetuses were VIOLENT CRIMINALS?
I have read the whole Psalter during the last weeks. I have discovered a verse which really shocked my, that even a fetus can yet turn apostate.
Yet, that would fit together with the statement of the New Testament that John the Baptist yet became a believer (received the Holy Spirit) in the womb his mother Elisabeth. Ain't that outrageous?
Don't care, God knew who was worthy of death.
"God is extremly patient"
i think it has something to do with being a myth
Rainer Helmut Braendlein
"I have read the whole Psalter during the last weeks. I have discovered a verse which really shocked my, that even a fetus can yet turn apostate."
Of course. Two week old embryos do it all the time. They analyze life and make that decision.
The Church belongs to the supernatural realm. There can happen things which are beyond imagination. For example miracles.
Don't try to understand the Kingdom of God from outside (get in, and you would understand many things).
Nikodemus, the Jewish theologian, who once spoke with Jesus (he asked many crazy questions) was told that he would need the rebirth in order to get into God's kingdom. That is the only interesting question, even for you.
"God knew who was worthy of death."
So much for free will, Rainy
Your god is a pr1ck
I find the interpretations that Rain gives the Bible to be especially tasty pretzelism.
God must indeed be patient.
Oh, so from "this generation shall not pass away until ALL these things are accomplished, to "god is extremely patient".
You can say that again. As in it's never gonna happen. The mental gymnastic you people have to do is amazing.