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Pope Francis: Church could support civil unions
Pope Francis speaks at St Peter's square on December 11, 2013.
March 5th, 2014
10:04 AM ET

Pope Francis: Church could support civil unions

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - Pope Francis reaffirmed the Catholic Church's opposition to gay marriage on Wednesday, but suggested in a newspaper interview that it could support some types of civil unions.

The Pope reiterated the church's longstanding teaching that "marriage is between a man and a woman." However, he said, "We have to look at different cases and evaluate them in their variety."

States, for instance, justify civil unions as a way to provide economic security to cohabitating couples, the Pope said in a wide-ranging interview published Wednesday in Corriere della Seraan Italian daily. State-sanctioned unions are thus driven by the need to ensure rights like access to health care, Francis added.

A number of Catholic bishops have supported civil unions for same-sex couples as an alternative to marriage, including Pope Francis when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires in 2010, according to reports in National Catholic Reporter and The New York Times.

Behind closed doors, pope supported civil unions in Argentina, activist says

But Wednesday's comments are "the first time a Pope has indicated even tentative acceptance of civil unions," according to Catholic News Service.

Later on Wednesday, a Vatican spokesman sought to clarify the Pope's remarks.

"The Pope did not choose to enter into debates about the delicate matter of gay civil unions," said the Rev. Thomas Rosica, a consultant to the Vatican press office.

"In his response to the interviewer, he emphasized the natural characteristic of marriage between one man and one woman, and on the other hand, he also spoke about the obligation of the state to fulfill its responsibilities towards its citizens."

"We should not try to read more into the Pope’s words than what has been stated in very general terms," Rosica added.

Pope Francis, who marks his first year in office on March 13, has sought to set a more tolerant tone for his 1 billion-member church and suggested that a broad range of topics are at least open for discussion.

In January, the Pope recalled a little girl in Buenos Aires who told her teacher that she was sad because "my mother's girlfriend doesn't like me."

"The situation in which we live now provides us with new challenges which sometimes are difficult for us to understand," the Pope told leaders of religious orders, adding that the church "must be careful not to administer a vaccine against faith to them."

The Vatican later denied that those comments signaled an opening toward same-sex unions.

Last June, Francis famously refused to judge gay priests in comments that ricocheted around the world. He has also said that the church should not "interfere" in the spiritual lives of gays and lesbians.

Pope Francis' greatest hits of 2013

Support of same-sex unions of any type is fiercely contested by many Catholic church leaders.

In Wednesday's interview, Francis also addressed several other controversial issues, including the Catholic Church's ban on contraception, the role of women and the devastating clergy sexual abuse scandal.

On contraception, the Pope praised Pope Paul VI for having the "courage" to "go against the majority" when restating the ban in 1968. But, Francis said, the church must also be "merciful" and "attentive to concrete situations."

Contraception and church's ban on divorced Catholics receiving holy communion, will likely be addressed at major meetings of Catholic bishops in Rome in 2014 and 2015.

“We must give a response. But to do so, we must reflect much in depth,” the Pope said Wednesday.

On the role of women in the church, an issue of particular concern to Catholics in the United States, the Pope hinted that changes could be in the works.

"Women must be present in all of the places where decisions are taken," Francis said in the newspaper interview, but the church must consider more than "functional" roles for women. To that end, Catholic leaders are engaged in "deep reflection" on women's role in the church, he said.

On the sexual abuse of children by Catholic clergy, a scandal that has rocked the church in the United States, the Pope said the abuse has left "very deep wounds" on victims.

In response, the church has done more than other institutions to be open and transparent about sexual abuse by its employees, Francis said. “But the Church is the only one to be attacked."

A United Nations panel criticized Catholic leaders last month in a hard-hitting report on clergy sexual abuse.

The report said the Vatican "has not acknowledged the extent of the crimes committed, has not taken the necessary measures to address cases of child sexual abuse and to protect children, and has adopted policies and practices which have led to the continuation of the abuse by and the impunity of the perpetrators.”

The Vatican said it would study the U.N. report.

Kick out those who sexually abuse children, U.N. panel tells Vatican

On Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, who has surprised church-watchers with public appearances after saying he would live a cloistered life in retirement, Francis said he considers his predecessor a "wise grandfather."

"The Pope Emeritus is not a statue in a museum," Pope Francis said. Rather, the two men have decided that Benedict should participate in the church's public life rather than live a shuttered life.

"I thought about grandparents who with their wisdom, their advice, strengthen families and don't deserve to end up in an old folks home," Francis said.

Finally, he may sometimes wear a cape, but don't call Pope Francis a Superman, the popular pontiff said.

"To paint the Pope as a sort of Superman, a kind of star, seems offensive to me," Francis told Corriere della Sera. "The Pope is a man who laughs, cries, sleeps soundly and has friends like everyone else. A normal person."

Earlier this year, graffiti depicting a muscle-bound and flying Francis appeared on walls near Vatican City, but the Pope said Wednesday that he doesn't like the "mythology" surrounding his papacy, which marks its first anniversary on March 13.

For instance, Francis debunked the idea that he sneaks out of the Vatican at night to feed the homeless.

"It never occurred to me," he said.

(CNN's Delia Gallagher assisted in translating Pope Francis' remarks from the Italian.) 

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Christianity • Culture wars • Discrimination • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Pope Benedict XVI • Pope Francis • Vatican

soundoff (3,591 Responses)
  1. Donald Shimoda

    Who among you wear your freedom as a handcuff? Do not accept it.

    March 7, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...

      March 7, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
      • derado8

        Truly I've known some intense bursts of Freedom.

        March 7, 2014 at 6:48 pm |
  2. Vic

    ♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰

    March 7, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Micheal Flatley is Lord (of the dance)

      March 7, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
    • Donald Shimoda

      Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,

      And that which is neither deed nor reflection , but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:37 pm |
      • Austin

        Are these random sparks?

        March 7, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          Do sparks speak to your inner glory Austin? Have you found a key to your shackles?

          March 7, 2014 at 3:51 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Jesus is Lord

      of the Flies

      March 7, 2014 at 3:51 pm |
  3. Donald Shimoda

    Your soul is oftentimes a battlefield, upon which your reason and your judgment wage war against your passion and your appetite.

    March 7, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
    • Austin

      Amen

      March 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      We are strong, no one can tell us we're wrong
      Searchin' our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
      Love Is A Battlefield

      March 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
    • kudlak

      Donald Shimoda
      That's why Christians are indoctrinated into loving Jesus more than even their own children. That's the level of passion that can routinely supersede people's reason and better judgment.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
  4. Austin

    What happens if your father does life for murder? And you end up an abusive alcoholic living in a dumpster cause your mom was a tweaker?

    Are there comsequences?

    What if timothy mcveigh went free ? Did ben laden do well? How bout cain?

    March 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm |
    • Akira

      You are making less and less sense as the day goes on.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

      March 7, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
      • Austin

        Ask God to give you spiritual sight and hearing. And for more faith.

        Need it.

        Thats all supernatural.

        March 7, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
  5. Donald Shimoda

    What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.

    March 7, 2014 at 3:12 pm |
    • Austin

      Ya we are like that too.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
  6. Austin

    What is the christian word for a committment promise made before God in obedience to God which envokes God to ordain and bless tje marriage and Children?

    That is not what atheists or Gays do. Correct?

    I want my own sanctified word. We want a word that is set apart and different, because we are different. We carry a commitment to the apiritual seed of abraham. We are sons of Adam and.by right of spirit God and Christ.

    We will not blend our definition with santa.

    March 7, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      translation: Why aren't we Christians more special? Waaah! We should get more cool stuff and shlt cause we think we're awesome and are better than all other religions and people, so we should get more privilages than you less cool people.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
      • Austin

        Im not in it for tax break.

        I seek Gods blessing and favor.

        Thats all. A God ordained union.

        March 7, 2014 at 3:07 pm |
        • Akira

          Good. Seek it for yourself, and stay the hell out of other people's business.

          Holy Matrimony. There's your word, exclusively yours, pertaining to those marriages blessed by God in the church of your choice.

          You're welcome.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
        • Austin

          Ok.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
        • kudlak

          Austin
          You can have God's blessing and favour just like somebody else can have Greek, or quick Vegas wedding. Nobody's stopping you from inviting as many gods as you like to your wedding. That's your business. What's not your business is how anyone else wants to get married.

          March 7, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
    • Alias

      If you want your own word, make one up.
      You can't have the one we have all been using for so long.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:10 pm |
    • Akira

      Most people who love each want to commit themselves to each other and get married.

      Gays want that.

      Atheists want that.

      I think you are being very sly in trying to extrapolate gay and atheism as if they are one thing. I don't know how you expect to sway anyone towards Christianity with your increasingly absurd views, but you seen hell-bent on merging your opinions with flat out lying. Is that your intent?

      You have a freaking sanctified word. It's called Holy Matrimony. Only those married in a church can claim that.

      Satisfied?

      March 7, 2014 at 3:12 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Austin, tell me, do Muslims get married? Do Hindus? Jews? Buddhists? Pagans?

      You want a special word that is indicative of your union taking place in your special holy ceremony? Create one.

      You don't get to co-opt a word that the rest of the world has used for millenia.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
      • Austin

        Muslims and.jews can use the same word.

        Atheists and gays cant mean the same.thing as christians jews and muslims.

        March 7, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
        • Akira

          ♫♫♪♪ ♫♪
          " If I knew you were hatin' I'da baked a cake."

          March 7, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
        • myweightinwords

          Why?

          You haven't given a single coherent reason why. You also haven't addressed the other religions.

          You're the one redefining what marriage is, you're the one who should have to pick a new word.

          March 7, 2014 at 11:39 pm |
    • believerfred

      Austin
      Put up the white flag. It was Christians and Jews who destroyed what God has put together. The end times are coming not because of gay marriage but because the heart of Gods people are no longer with God. If we are to bring light into the world then shine that light on the believers and you will see why God is not with us. The divorce rate with believers is not much different than anyone else. Who in hell would want our God to be their god based on results.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        When exactly are the End Times?
        Any day now, right?

        March 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
        • believerfred

          Now is the time is the operative biblical moment. Exactly when did the last ship pass which came to rescue you from this fallen world (apparent reality of the serpent presented to you) is the answer to your question. How many times did the thought cross your soul calling your attention to a reality that includes the presence of God? If you replied "did God really say that?" then you know the voice of deception that robed you of that presence. Once that presence is experienced it is not forgotten only longed for.
          Now is the time as tomorrow is outside of the present.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • believerfred

          On second thought:
          Now is the time as tomorrow is outside the presence. Assuming past, present and future are only constructs of the serpent.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
  7. Vic

    There was a long discussion last night regarding "Objective Morality:"
    [
    https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/05/pope-francis-church-could-support-civil-unions/comment-page-6/#comment-2959300
    ]

    I would like to say this:

    "Perfection" and "Objectivity" are independent of the human caliber.

    Just like we detect "Perfection" and yet imperfect, we detect "Objectivity and yet subjective.

    "Perfection" and "Objectivity"—so follows "Objective Morality"—are independent paradigms that are outside the human being, and we scale to them.

    March 7, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
    • the0g0to0the0t

      Not sure what you mean Vic.

      To me, Perfection and Objectivity are ideals. As such they don't exist outside of human brains. Of course we can't reach either state, that's why they're called ideals.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
  8. Donald Shimoda

    Every person, all the events of your life are there because you have drawn them there.

    What you choose to do wih them is up to you.

    March 7, 2014 at 2:34 pm |
    • Alias

      You're slipping again.
      There are many events in all our lives that are beyond our control.

      March 7, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
      • Donald Shimoda

        The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy.

        March 7, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          There is no evidence that the randomness and uncertainty inherent in the flux of life is caused by a god.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
        • Alias

          “Not thinking about anything is Zen. Once you know this, walking, sitting, or lying down, everything you do is Zen.”
          ― Bodhidharma

          March 7, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
      • Alias

        “A student, filled with emotion and crying, implored, "Why is there so much suffering?"
        Suzuki Roshi replied, "No reason.”

        March 7, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
        • Austin

          How do you know its not a curse to the fourth generation for rejecting God.

          And the narural consequences of being cast away.

          What haplens if you you dont graduate from high school?

          March 7, 2014 at 3:13 pm |
        • Akira

          So it's fine for your great great great grandchildren to suffer, (even if they are devout Christians, as devout as YOU) to suffer?

          Stop.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • Akira

          Meant for Austin, not Alias.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Solipsism at its finest.

      Through the quantum fluctuations of chronometric tachyon fields, one can surmise that at its core, the Universe is composed of Heinsenberg pulse waves interacting on the quantum level.
      Of course, these gravimetric oscillations can only be observed indirectly, but by noting their influence on the sub-atomic quantum flanging, the ferfanational matrices of gestalt knoncleotides proves, beyond a doubt, that the entire fabric of reality as we perceive it is nothing more than the passing whimsy of quantum midichlorians.
      Quantum quantum quantum.
      Quantum.

      – Deepak Chopra

      March 7, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    Austin, I remember you as being a lot more coherent. Are you unwell? Or perhaps has one of the other incoherent Christian trolls hijacked your name?

    March 7, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
    • the0g0to0the0t

      Been wondering that myself. The overall quality of his typing skills seems to have degenerated.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
      • Austin

        Touch screen has letters that are an eighth by quarter inch.

        March 7, 2014 at 3:53 pm |
  10. Donald Shimoda

    If you will practice being fictional for a while, you will understand that fictional characters are sometimes more real than people with bodies and heartbeats.

    March 7, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
    • Alias

      Now you're slipping.

      March 7, 2014 at 2:15 pm |
      • Donald Shimoda

        Your conscience is the measure of the honesty of your selfishness. Listen to it carefully.

        March 7, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
        • Alias

          That's better.
          Your original quote made it sound like TV characters were not just actors reading from a script.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
  11. Austin

    Keep the government out of marriage. If the term is religious have all use the term civil union.

    And marriage can stay a Godly consecration or ordination.

    The country has gone secular stop defiling a religious word by setting it up with governmemt.

    Christian.words should not.be used in a vain context ever.

    March 7, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
    • Akira

      Sorry. Religion doesn't own the word marriage. Never did, never will. People were getting married LONG before the Bible was written.

      The US has always been secular. I'm surprised that you didn't know that the FF set it up that way specifically to avoid becoming a theocracy.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
      • Austin

        Im all for that seperation. Im simply saying that christians should keep their own word set apart from a watered down secular ambiguity.

        What man if God has is an ordained and blessed by God relatationship and family.

        That is different fromthe atheist couple. We need to distinguish and dignify Gids role in the blessing and God given approval.

        What is our christian expression? Did we birrow the word bride? And bride groom?

        March 7, 2014 at 2:50 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          There is no legal difference between an married atheist couple and a married Christian couple.

          Marriage is a state sanctioned union. If you want to add something extra to it and change the name go right ahead. For all Christian marriages you can add "Sky Fairy Endorsed" or an "SFE Marriage" to it so the religious people who care can tell the difference. Of course, who among the 42,000 denominations gets to have the final say on who can get the SFE endorsement? Have fun trying to fight among yourselves over who get's to administer Gods blessings you sad morons.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • Austin

          What a man of god has

          I cant type on my phone very good. Sorry folks.

          Ill try harder.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
        • Akira

          "Im all for that seperation. Im simply saying that christians should keep their own word set apart from a watered down secular ambiguity."

          Holy Matrimony.

          Now stop beating this dead horse.

          March 7, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Marriage was practiced by Hindus thousands of years before Christianity came into existence.
      It is described in the Vedas, a collection of Hindu holy texts, dating back to around 1500 BCE.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
    • Austin

      What business does atheist hetero couple have defiling a religious word by excluding God from family?

      That is worse than ho.mo marriage because they will trample the meaning of marriage to born children.

      Marriage was instruxced to faith families by God . Marriage is a bindimg blessing from God.

      Atheist marriage carries more risk than gay marriage .

      March 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Why for you not sense making?
        Fail english? That's unpossible!

        March 7, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
        • snuffleupagus

          LMAO! Is the funny Doc the makes! Austin the fussdoof, dumb god the worship.

          March 7, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
        • snuffleupagus

          Doc, I think he speaks his own brand, Austinacular. Apparently, only one other can speak it, or come close, and that would be Rainey.

          March 7, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
      • Akira

        What business is it of yours what ANY couple does within their marriage?

        None.

        Zip.

        Zero.

        You are trying to impose your definition of marriage on everyone.
        It means different things to different people. You've been told this like a million times. NOT EVERYONE SHARES YOUR VIEWS.

        March 7, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
    • sam stone

      Sorry, Austin, you do not get to dictate what people call their relationship

      March 7, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      "The word "marriage" derives from Middle English mariage, which first appears in 1250–1300 CE. This in turn is derived from Old French marier (to marry) and ultimately Latin marītāre meaning to provide with a husband or wife and marītāri meaning to get married. The adjective marīt-us -a, -um meaning matrimonial or nuptial could also be used in the masculine form as a noun for "husband" and in the feminine form for "wife." The related word "matrimony" derives from the Old French word matremoine which appears around 1300 CE and ultimately derives from Latin mātrimōnium which combines the two concepts mater meaning "mother" and the suffix -monium signifying "action, state, or condition."

      marītāre: to provide with a husband or wife
      matrimony: state or condition of being a mother

      March 7, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      The country has always been Secular!!! Stop trying to impose your quacky belief system upon us!
      What people do in the privacy of their own homes is not your business...you are not paying their way in this world, nor are you living their lives-you don't get to say what is best for anyone.
      Christians are losing ground on this battle and for we can be very thankful. You've pushed enough and now everyone you've pushed are pushing back. If you don't like living in what will remain a Secular Country, you are free to leave.

      March 7, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
  12. Austin

    Yes. If it is a religious term.

    March 7, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
    • Akira

      Which, if you're talking about the word marriage, it is not.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
    • snuffleupagus

      No, Austin. You spout BS and nonsense.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
    • the0g0to0the0t

      No – it's an English term. By your logic, buddhists, muslims, pagans, etc. aren't allowed to be "married" either?

      March 7, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
  13. Austin

    If you came to my fathers birthday party and brought a blow up doll and went over in the corner and made a ruckus and hoopla singing and worshiping the dead doll..... I would have to kick the sh.t out of there.

    March 7, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
    • Donald Shimoda

      The original sin is to limit the Is. Don't.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
    • Akira

      As you should be, for a person to do that at private party would be be crass.

      What's your point?

      I think if you stood up and started proselytizing the way you do here at a private birthday, the sane would be done to you.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
  14. Donald Shimoda

    A cloud does not know why it moves in just such a direction and at such a speed,

    It feels and impulsion...this is the place to go now.

    But the sky knows the reasons and the patterns behind all clouds, and you will know too, when you lift yourself high enough to see beyond horizons.

    March 7, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
    • Alias

      That should be on Colorado's State Flag, "you will know too, when you lift yourself high enough to see beyond horizons"

      March 7, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
      • Donald Shimoda

        Soon freedom will come to us all, if we want it.

        March 7, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
  15. Austin

    Heathens are jealous that there is a party for Jesus so they jack around with santa on Jesus birthday.

    Go ahead. Suit yourself. If you are that jealous and you hate what is good.

    March 7, 2014 at 12:47 pm |
    • Donald Shimoda

      The world is your exercise-book, the pages on which you do your sums.

      It is not reality, although you can express reality there if you wish.

      You are also free to write nonsense, or lies, or to tear the pages.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
      • Austin

        Certain people are chosen and are not free to believe lies.

        March 7, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          We all choose the path we take and are free to change it, or to change our reality.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
        • Alias

          Donald,
          you sound very much like a spoiled, privelidged child who is completely out of touch with those who are truely impoverished.

          March 7, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          @alias

          We are all spoiled, but some will step over the wealth, and that's okay.

          March 7, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • Alias

          No, Donald.
          You have no idea how few choices some people have.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • sam stone

          "Certain people are chosen and are not free to believe lies."

          Apparently, you are not one of them

          March 7, 2014 at 2:35 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          God's chosen people are the 12 tribes of Israel.
          Johnny-come-lately Christians can't claim the ti/tle.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      There is nothing funnier than two religious nutcases stroking each other... so to speak

      March 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
    • Akira

      Jesus wasn't born on December 25th; thus renders the rest of your post moot.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
    • sam stone

      Austin is having a party for jeebus. Perhaps you can get a room and learn about coming in the name of the lord

      March 7, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      If you want a party with your imaginary friend, why bother wasting your time here on earth?? Why devalue this life for one that doesn't exist (at least not one with any evidence to back it)?
      Your delusions get worse by the day!

      March 7, 2014 at 2:35 pm |
  16. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    We face two issues today: The toleration of gay people and gay couples in the churches, and the legalisation of gay life-style in general civilian life.

    What is the more severe issue?

    Certainly, the toleration of gay people and gay couples in the churches.

    Why?

    Gayness is a kind of fornication. According to the biblical evidence somebody who persistently commits fornication has to leave the Church. Persistant fornication indicates that someone has abandoned his faith in Jesus Christ. The Church is the place where believers dwell in unity. The Church is not the place where evildoers are allowed to dwell.

    1. Corinth. 5, 9-13

    I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    This passage is clear eneough. There is no room for persistant evildoers in the church.

    Therefore it is a calamity that very many churches of today tolerate gayness in their midst. At any rate that is against God's declared will, and will cause his wrath. Never in history churches turned apostate like today. That could be a sign that Jesus will return soon in order to judge.

    Concerning the civil life:

    There must be a place where people which don't belong to the Church can orderly live (rather exist) together. The best state would be that all people belong to the Church through faith, the well organized City of God. But, as many people hesitate to join the Church, there must be an emergency-system where they can live (rather exist) as long as God's patience is waiting (for their conversion to Jesus). Yet, seemingly, according to the biblical evidence, even if this emergency-system, the place of patience with the sinners, becomes too evil, it can cause God's wrath. When the sinners become too bold, God can put an end to their system because he is the ruler of the whole universe, not only the Lord of the Church.

    Nevertheless, the more severe issue is the toleration of gayness within the churches.

    The pope tolerates mandatory celibacy. That promotes child abuse by Catholic priests.. Therefore the pope is as guilty as the clergy of the churches tolerating gayness in their midst.

    http://confessingchurch.wordpress.com

    P.S.: Furthermore, it is irresponsible by the pope that he doesn't stridently criticize the legalisation of same-se-x partnership through the state, government or ordinary society. God is not merely concerned about the church but also about the whole mankind. The people (sinners) outside the church experience God's patience; yet that doesn't mean that he doesn't want them to convert. Of course, God wants that everybody becomes a Christian – right now, best case. I guess when the ordinary society outside the Church too much adopts extremly sinful habits, and regards her lifestyle as the normal one, God could be tempted to abolish her. God can endure the society of sinners as long as it remains an emergency-system, but when the emergency-system starts to regard itself as the most correct system, then God could become angry right now. Ordinary people should thank God for his patience but they should not assume that he would not care about their life.

    I am absolutely sure that we will face great judgements through the divinity in the course of the next years.

    There is still time to repent – let us repent right now. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

    March 7, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
    • SeaVik

      "According to the biblical evidence..."

      You realize that when you say that, nothing that follows is relevant, right?

      March 7, 2014 at 12:46 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Sieg heil, Dark Helmut !

      March 7, 2014 at 12:49 pm |
    • Alias

      Thanks for reposting this so soon.
      I need to be reminde don every page that some fornication is okay with your church and some isn't.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
      • Austin

        Two wrongs make everythng better.

        March 7, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
    • Akira

      According to RHB, God's Holiness force is drained by gay people. I imagine this to be similar to a life-force being drained in a video game.

      Is there any reason on Earth to take this seriously?

      I realize people interpret the Bible differently, (evidenced by the posters who frequent the BB), but really?

      March 7, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
  17. Austin

    If marriage is a christian word then gay marriage is like santa clause. People dont complain about hannaukah even though the jews rejected jesus christ. But santa clause 666 is a pagan disrespect. They shuld have a seperate holiday for santa but the devil is an agressive pervert and not only does he want santa to compete for attention.he wants to defile the birthday in.the birthday.

    Thats annoying. Satan will get his. Vengence will be the Lords. Trust that .

    March 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
    • Akira

      Except marriage isn't a Christian term.
      Sorry.

      March 7, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      1) Marriage isn't a Christian word.
      2) People who aren't Christian can get married.
      3) Santa Claus is a largely Christian construct, built from various and sundry traditions, some of which came from early Pagan traditions.
      4) Santa has nothing to do with Satan.
      5) Pagans have nothing to do with Satan.

      March 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
  18. Donald Shimoda

    Imagine the universe beautiful and just and perfect,

    Then be sure of one thing: the Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have.

    March 7, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Non-sensical

      March 7, 2014 at 12:32 pm |
      • Donald Shimoda

        Your reality is yours and yours alone, but the Is imagined you as you are.

        March 7, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          http://www.butte.edu/departments/cas/tipsheets/grammar/sentence_structure.html

          March 7, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "the Is has imagined it quite a bit better than you have."

          "but the Is imagined you as you are."

          So the "Is" or should i say "Wiz" behind the currtain imagined a better universe but for some reason wasn't able to pull it off? "Iz" imagined me as a better more perfect version of me but failed to hit hit target?

          The fact is, your "Is" just Isn't.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:44 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          The truth you speak has no past and no future. It is, and that's all it needs to be.

          March 7, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      I like that Don.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
      • Donald Shimoda

        Peace to you Robert.

        March 7, 2014 at 12:44 pm |
    • Alias

      I will never quit being amused by Zen Masters.
      Of course, I choose to imagind invisible bovine to explain all the BS around here.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
      • Donald Shimoda

        Being amused is positive and makes one feel good inside. Use that and enjoy it.

        March 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Amused to Death – Roger Waters

          March 7, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      There's another old saying Senator. Don't pi.ss down my back and tell me it's raining.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
      • Austin

        Great idea. Very good trick.

        March 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
  19. SeaVik

    This issue should not be as complicated as some people make it out to be. If you belong to a particular cult that doesn't like certain types of marriage, you do not have to recognize those marriages. The government, however, should not be in the business of telling us who can and can't get married. It really is no more complicated than that. Since I am not a member of the Christian cult, it should have absolutely no relevancy to me what the Pope thinks about marriage.

    March 7, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
    • Akira

      I agree. And as soon as the state governments get their act together and stop discriminating against gay marriage, even better.

      Then the churches can marry whomever they want to, and the rest of the folks who wish to be wed can be.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
      • Austin

        Well just call it a civil union so that religious people.

        If they think marriage is a christian term you should not trample it. Change it to a secular word and proceed.

        If the word marriage cant be poven to be a religious word then christians should mind their own business.

        March 7, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
        • SeaVik

          That is perhaps the dumbest argument I've seen so far on the subject. You want the government to discriminate because you think the term they're using to describe the status of two individuals is a religious term and therefore must follow its religious definition? That's idiotic on so many levels...

          March 7, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
        • joey3467

          Since people got married before any Christians existed I think you can put that argument to rest and start minding your own business.

          March 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
    • Donald Shimoda

      You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true.

      You may have to work for it, however.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      When the Pope talks about marriage, he talks about sacramental marriage.

      A marriage license issued by the state has nothing to do with sacramental marriage. There should be no difference between a civil union and a marriage license issued by the state. The 'separate but not equal' issues related to the term civil union should deprecate the idea of creating any distinction at all.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Well said.
      The ones speaking out against this and thumping their belief somehow are missing the point here. All their screaming is not changing a thing, same gender marriage is going to happen regardless. Just as with so many other issues in the past this one too will be a lost battle for them. Seems that they're running out of battles to fight-this may be a good thing.

      March 7, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
  20. Donald Shimoda

    There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands.

    You seek problems because you need their gifts.

    March 7, 2014 at 11:29 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is.

      March 7, 2014 at 11:51 am |
      • Donald Shimoda

        Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.

        March 7, 2014 at 11:55 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life.

          Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Buzzards gotta eat....same as the worm..

          March 7, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
        • Alias

          Madness takes its toll.
          Please have exact change.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:35 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          Madness is just another state of mind, like sanity. Neither come with instructions.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          I would rather have a bottle in front of me....than a frontal lobotomy.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          An oldie but a goody.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • Donald Shimoda

          Hatred is the poison one uses to murder peace. It does not cover ignorance, so look carefully before stepping.

          March 7, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.