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March 15th, 2014
11:23 AM ET

Five things you didn't know about Jesus

Opinion by the Rev. James Martin, special to CNN

(CNN) - With Easter approaching, and the movie “Son of God” playing in wide release, you’re going to hear a lot about Jesus these days.

You may hear revelations from new books that purport to tell the “real story” about Jesus, opinions from friends who have discovered a “secret” on the Web about the son of God, and airtight arguments from co-workers who can prove he never existed.

Beware of most of these revelations; many are based on pure speculation and wishful thinking. Much of what we know about Jesus has been known for the last 2,000 years.

Still, even for devout Christian there are surprises to be found hidden within the Gospels, and thanks to advances in historical research and archaeological discoveries, more is known about his life and times.

With that in mind, here are five things you probably didn't know about Jesus.

1.) Jesus came from a nowhere little town.

Nearly all modern-day archaeologists agree the town of Nazareth had only 200 to 400 people. Jesus’ hometown is mentioned nowhere in either the Old Testament or the Talmud, which notes dozens of other towns in the area.

In fact, in the New Testament it is literally a joke.

In the Gospel of John, when a man named Nathanael hears the messiah is “Jesus of Nazareth,” he asks, “Can anything good come from Nazareth?” He’s dissing Jesus’ crummy backwater town.

2.) Jesus probably didn’t know everything.

This is a thorny theological question. If Jesus is divine, wouldn’t he know all things? (Indeed, on several occasions Jesus predicts his death and resurrection.)

On the other hand, if he had a human consciousness, he needed to be taught something before he could know it. The Gospel of Luke says that when Jesus was a young man he “progressed” in wisdom. That means he learned things. (Otherwise how would he “progress”?)

In the Gospel of Mark, Jesus initially refuses to heal the daughter of a non-Jewish woman, saying rather sharply, “It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.”

But when she replies that even the dogs get the crumbs from the table, Jesus softens, and he heals her daughter. He seems to be learning that his ministry extends beyond the Jewish people.

3.) Jesus was tough.

From age 12 to 30, Jesus worked in Nazareth as a carpenter. “Is not this the carpenter?” say the astonished crowds when he begins to preach.

The word used for Jesus’ profession in the original Greek is tekton. The traditional translation is “carpenter.” But most contemporary scholars say it’s more likely a general craftsman; some even translate it as “day laborer.”

A tekton would have made doors, tables, lamp stands and plows. But he probably also built stone walls and helped with house construction.

It was tough work that meant lugging tools, wood and stones all over Galilee. Jesus doesn’t simply stride onto the world stage after having dreamily examined a piece of wood when the mood suited him. For 18 years, he worked—and worked hard.

4.) Jesus needed “me time.”

The Gospels frequently speak of Jesus’ need to “withdraw” from the crowds, and even his disciples.

Today by the Sea of Galilee, where Jesus carried out much of his ministry, you can see how close the towns were, and how natural it would have been for the enthusiastic crowds to “press” in on him, as the Gospels describe.

There’s even a cave on the shoreline, not far from Capernaum, his base of operations, where he may have prayed.

It’s called the “Eremos Cave,” from the word for “desolate” or “solitary,” from which we get the word “hermit.” Even though Jesus was the son of God, he needed time alone in prayer with the father.

5.) Jesus didn’t want to die.

As he approaches his death, and prays hard in the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus says, “Remove this cup.” It’s a blunt prayer addressed to the father, whom he affectionately calls Abba. He doesn’t want to die.

Unlike the way some Christians portray Jesus as courting death, and even desiring it, like any human being, the idea of death is terrifying. “My soul is sorrowful even unto death,” he says.

In other words, “I’m so sad that it feels like I’m going to die.” But once Jesus realizes that this is somehow the will of the father, he assents to death, even on a cross.

It’s natural to want to know as much as we can about Jesus; that’s one reason I wrote my new book. But beware of the more outlandish claims about the son of God (he fathered children, he was married to Mary Magdalene, he spent time in India and so on.)

Many of these claims tend to project our own desires on a man who will always remain somewhat elusive, hard to fully understand and impossible to pin down.

In the end, as theologians like to say, Jesus is not so much a problem to be solved as a mystery to be pondered.

The Rev. James Martin is a Jesuit priest, editor of America magazine and author of the new book "Jesus: A Pilgrimage" (HarperOne). The views expressed in this column belong to Martin. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Easter • Jesus • Opinion

soundoff (3,128 Responses)
  1. CatholicReligionTeacher

    For those who continue to claim that Jesus is just a rehash of ancient myths, please watch the following:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZk9Lb22KrE

    More videos on the person of Jesus (and insightful commentaries on books, movies, atheism, the news, etc.) from priest and theologian, Fr. Barron can be found here:

    http://catholicreligionteacher.com/fr-barron-videos/

    March 15, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
    • islamistheanswer

      O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. (171) Never would the Messiah disdain to be a servant of Allah, nor would the angels near [to Him]. And whoever disdains His worship and is arrogant – He will gather them to Himself all together. (172) And as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards and grant them extra from His bounty. But as for those who disdained and were arrogant, He will punish them with a painful punishment, and they will not find for themselves besides Allah any protector or helper. (173) O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light. (174) So those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him – He will admit them to mercy from Himself and bounty and guide them to Himself on a straight path. (175)

      Quran Chapter 6

      Some of the miracles of Jesus (Peace and Blessing be Upon Him)

      [Be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the messengers and say, "What was the response you received?" They will say, "We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen" (109) [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic." (110) And [remember] when I inspired to the disciples, "Believe in Me and in My messenger Jesus." They said, "We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims [in submission to Allah]." (111) [And remember] when the disciples said, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table [spread with food] from the heaven? [Jesus] said," Fear Allah, if you should be believers." (112) They said, "We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses." (113)

      Quran Chapter 7

      March 15, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Bla bla bla.
        Before you dish out Quranic verses, you have to PROVE they are both authentic, and authoritative. You have done neither.

        March 15, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Authentic? There is no book that has been preserved in all aspects like the Quran and historians DO agree about that. The Quran is memorized by heart by millions of people across the world. Not only that but the chain of memorization is traced back to the Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). For example, a current memorizer (and again there are tens of millions today) knows his chain of memorizers all the way to the prophet (some 27 memorizers in the chain).. So what you see today as the Quran is the same Quran that was revealed to the Prophet.

          Authority? You suggest to me what classifies as authoritative so that I address your concerns. As far as I am concerned, an individual in the 21st century it suffices it to me that a book that was revealed 1400 years ago has so many prophecies that happened let along all the scientific evidence in this book that corroborated all the scientific discoveries of our century. Please note that you all those prophecies and scientific evidences that I talk about had no contradiction whatsoever. If it was coincidental and people fiddling with wording to match the scientific evidence, wouldn't you expect that you find at least ONE contradiction or a prophecy that proved to be invalid. Why is it always you focus your energies and efforts to justify how it is possible that the wording didn't mean or intend exactly the discovery at hand.

          Also, once you go through the many evidences, you need not to decipher every verse and story to check for its validity and be presented with the proof to believe in every verse within the book. The moral of the story is, a book that has no contradictions whatsoever, at least not for the past 1400 years. Generations challenged to uncover any contradiction within this book but all you hear is skeptics that would opt to dismiss the holy book based on ignorance and mere perception of what is in the Quran.. Have you ever read the Quran and its meanings? How did you go about doing that? What do you know about the Quran and Islam from credible sources (I mean Muslims obviously, not folks who write about their opinions about Islam while not possessing adequate knowledge about it in the first place).?

          March 15, 2014 at 6:58 pm |
      • otoh2

        @islamistheanswer

        These are the words of a silver-tongued preacher; bombastic and flowery, without a whit of evidence for their reality. It's really difficult to believe that you can't see that.

        March 15, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          🙂 I too fail to see how you could perhaps follow the book of Mormon while no prophecy or scientific evidence has been furnished there. At least the book you are referring to has a lot going for it 🙂 I shared some of those evidences to you but you still insist that *substantial* evidence has not been established..

          Learn about Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him and all the Messengers before Him)

          http://youtu.be/sDqnRqTVtCo

          March 15, 2014 at 7:02 pm |
        • otoh2

          @islamis,

          Where did you get the idea that I follow the Book of Mormon? I don't think you comprehend things very well. I think that its "revelations" and "prophecies" are as baseless as yours.

          My point was that we even have the ORIGINALS of Joseph Smith's writings (no centuries of memorization) and it makes NO difference. Your "not a word has changed" means nothing.

          March 15, 2014 at 7:12 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          The preservation of the book/text by itself doesn't mean much but the fact that this book has many prophecies and scientific evidences is something that neither you nor anyone else should take lightly. The book of Mormon comparison is invalid because it doesn't have any of those prophecies or evidences.. Present them if they exist! Therefore, with your avid understanding of what is deemed acceptable and logical, you shouldn't compare apples to oranges.

          March 15, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
        • hughwahl

          1 John 2:
          21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

          22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

          23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

          24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

          25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

          26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

          27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

          March 17, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
      • urnotathinkerareu

        Islam is a rebellious religion that couldn't accept christianity which is the actual foundation of islam....both are in serious err...seriously

        March 16, 2014 at 5:29 pm |
      • unsername1

        can you comment on this video?

        http://youtu.be/xTSYdo3j9qg

        March 16, 2014 at 7:41 pm |
        • observer

          “Whoever does any work on a holy day - put to death”
          “anyone who blasphemes - stone him.”
          “worship other gods - stone the guilty ones to death”
          “stubborn and rebellious son - stone him to death.”
          “man is found lying with a married woman - both of them shall die”
          “virgin engaged to another man and he lies with her - stone them to death”
          “Whoever strikes his father or his mother - put to death”
          "Anyone who says cruel things to his father or mother - put to death.”
          “anyone who curses his father or his mother - put to death”
          “man who commits adultery with another man's wife - they shall be put to death.”
          "man or woman who is a medium or a fortune-teller - stone them to death"

          From the Quran? Nope. From the Bible

          March 16, 2014 at 7:45 pm |
      • wilburw7

        Jesus is God. Allah is Satan.

        March 16, 2014 at 9:40 pm |
      • textaxatty

        Mohammed had NO idea what he was talking about! He thought that the Trinity was the Father, the Son, and Mary. What a moron. If you are going to rail against something, at least have the basic facts. Also, why would we believe that pedophile!? That's right...I said it. He married an 8 year old and consummated it when she was 12. He was a sick freak just like Mao was (he was a pedophile too...look it up). Mohammed was a power hungry sicko. He slept with little girls and preached hatred and death to others who believed differently. Mohammed even made the mistake in his writings that makes it debatable whether a martyr receives 72 virgins or 72 raisins upon death (yes...that is a real dispute in some legit Muslim circles). Jesus embodied love and forgiveness. Problem with most Christianity isn't the message or the foundational basis...it's the people who practice it (a la Westboro and Phelps' clan). You will know a true Christian by the love he/she shows...that is THE defining characteristic.

        March 17, 2014 at 2:15 pm |
        • otoh2

          tex,
          "You will know a true Christian by the love he/she shows...that is THE defining characteristic."

          It sounds like *you* are not one, then... nothing but profound hate and not a smidgeon of love in your post, pal.

          March 17, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Did you watch the video labeled Jesus Vs. Mohammed above? That would answer your Pedophile accusation!

          March 17, 2014 at 9:25 pm |
      • esotericspirit813

        peace be unto you.... i agree with most of the things you write . However, through my faith and religious studies as well as receiving divine information, esoterically. I believe Jesus is the true author of the Quran. And it wasn't Jesus on the cross. At the same time there was a resurrection but it was Jesus who performed the resurrection. The first people who were charged with the difficult task of interpreting the new testament did as best they could in terms of reading and deciphering the exterior of it all. In reality (and by the blessed gift of Allah) the truth of it's hidden mysteries have been revealed to me through the scriptures of the Holy Bible and through the many surahs inside the Holy Quran. A true Muslim's duty when given information with regards towards wisdom he must do research to see if truth be found. Peace be unto you

        March 21, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      You can't be serious. Barron is the best you can do ?

      March 15, 2014 at 6:15 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Horus may not have been crucified, but Jesus of Gemala was, AND said to have risen after 3 days. Barron obviously never really faces any real critics, as his arguments are so weak, a 3rd Grader can dismantle them. Dying and rising gods were a dome adozen. There is NOTHING unique about the Jesus in the gospels,and in fact Richard Carrier has demonstrated they all are formatted as ancient syncretic myths.

      March 15, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
  2. CatholicReligionTeacher

    For those who continue to claim that Jesus is just a rehash of ancient of myths, please watch the following:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZk9Lb22KrE

    More videos on the person of Jesus (and commentaries on books, movies, the news, etc.) from priest and theologian, Fr. Barron can be found here: http://catholicreligionteacher.com/fr-barron-videos/

    March 15, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      No one cares. You can't make an argument yourself ?

      March 15, 2014 at 6:39 pm |
    • Keith

      Mithras was before Christ, same myth, same story.

      March 16, 2014 at 1:43 am |
  3. amrazim9

    First of all, Jesus never died – he was risen to the Heavens by GOD. Second, how can a God dies? Therefore, Jesus was NOT the son of GOD and Jesus was NOT GOD – but a very special Prophet.

    March 15, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Nice story. Needs some dragons and vampires, though.

      March 15, 2014 at 6:39 pm |
      • tony34343434

        Why do you care so much what others believe. You are spending so much time and effort trying to prove others wrong. It is like censorship. If you do not like something and never watched it or read it, how can it offend you so much. If you are not a Christian why do you spend time disproving others?? I am sure you are offended when Christians try and convert others, what you are doing is the same thing. If you don't believe why not just not believe instead of trying to insult others beliefs.

        March 15, 2014 at 6:58 pm |
        • ri0088

          @tony34343434 – "Why do you care so much what others believe. You are spending so much time and effort trying to prove others wrong."

          -Uh.....they are the ones making the baseless assertion. They haven't been proven right. We are pointing that out. We don't say to someone rejecting the claim of people who assert leprechauns are real- "why are you trying to prove them wrong". We don't automatically accept leprechauns exist simply because no evidence of them can be found. It's the opposite. Because of no evidence, the claim is invalid. It has no weight and no different than someone inventing up a story. We say, "prove your assertion" with evidence if you want it to be valid.

          "It is like censorship. If you do not like something and never watched it or read it, how can it offend you so much."

          -has nothing to do with censorship since no one is censoring them or preventing them from making assertions. We, however, have ever right to question and reject unproven assertions....just like we do naturally with other imaginary claims. That keep us from being gullible. It's a logical outcome. I fail how you see rejecting an unproven claim....equates censorship. The fault is with the claim itself....not the person rejecting it.

          "If you are not a Christian why do you spend time disproving others?"

          -You can't disprove something that doesn't exist. You can disprove claims that are false. That require evidence. They're making a claim for something that has no evidence. Such a claim can only be proven with evidence for it to be valid. Otherwise it's no different than any other imaginary claim we typical don't accept as real.

          "If you don't believe why not just not believe instead of trying to insult others beliefs."

          -rejecting an unsupported claim is not an insult. It's like saying "there's no evidence to suggest Santa is real" is an insult. That's stupid.

          March 16, 2014 at 12:57 am |
        • doobzz

          As long as Christians keep trying to encode their beliefs into civil law, you can expect push back.

          No one is telling you that you can't be a Christian. Just stop trying to make everyone else follow your beliefs as well.

          March 16, 2014 at 10:46 am |
    • MidwestKen

      @amrazim9,
      You're arguing both sides. If Jesus didn't die then he might be a god.

      March 15, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
  4. colin31714

    Rev. Martin says, “Beware of most of these revelations; many are based on pure speculation and wishful thinking. Much of what we know about Jesus has been known for the last 2,000 years.”

    Well, actually, that is not quite so. Most of the traditional Catholic and later Christian DOGMA about Jesus has been established for about 1600 years, having gradually developed in the first 400 years after his death. But, our genuine historical knowledge of what Jesus was most likely like has really only been developed in the last couple of hundred years. This has been a result of:

    (i) researches having the temerity to question Catholic dogma on the point;
    (ii) researches discovering and analyzing the earliest surviving canonical (and, to a lesser extent, non-canonical) gospel manuscripts; and
    (iii) researches adopting a purely scientific, historical approach to the question, rather than a theological approach.

    For example, we now know that Jesus most likely never made the famous pronunciation about the woman caught in adultery, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That scene was a later forged addition to the Gospel of John. There are many other examples of forged or mistaken material finding its way into the 4 canonical gospels.

    One thing is certain. Those who rely on the four canonical gospels as being evidence of miracles or other supernatural acts by Jesus, including his rising from the dead, are basing their belief of nothing more than translations of translations of copies of copies of four often contradictory and forgery and mistake vulnerable stories written by unidentified cult members in the Greco-Roman Mediterranean about a man they never met who lived a generation or two before the authors were born. There is simply no way around this. There is no “Bible II – A Carpenter’s Tale” to rely on.

    But for the fact that, with religion, we are called on to ignore common sense and believe the unbelievable out of some perceived sense of cosmic duty, those who rely on the gospels as historically accurate would be considered every bit as crazy as the 9-11 or Area 51 conspiracy nuts.

    March 15, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
  5. noway12345

    You guys do realize that "jesus" character does not exist right? "jesus" is a plagiarized character from Homer's Iliad and The Odyssey character, Odysseus ( do see the similarity in the their names?) If you don't believe me, fact check me.

    March 15, 2014 at 4:00 pm |
    • MarylandBill

      You do realize that most reputable historians actually accept that Jesus was a real person (truth claims about his miracles, divinity and the resurrection are a different matter). It only undermines claims atheists made to being rational to make such claims.

      March 15, 2014 at 5:32 pm |
      • md22mdrx

        Horus, Mithras, Osiris, ...

        The Jesus myth didn't start with Jesus ... and he's just that ... a myth.

        March 15, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
    • haime52

      You do realize Josephus wrote about Jesus, don't you? Did he plagiarize from Homer? Really, anyone who still believes Jesus was not a real person, is not very well educated. Whatever, may be believed about Him, He did live and walk on this earth. You need to do some research, not take someone's uneducated word for it.

      March 15, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
      • md22mdrx

        A man named Jesus may or may not have existed ...

        His birth claims were made many times before. His "miracles" were absurd and were actually made by "gods" and "prophets" before him ... many times before.

        March 15, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. (171) Never would the Messiah disdain to be a servant of Allah, nor would the angels near [to Him]. And whoever disdains His worship and is arrogant – He will gather them to Himself all together. (172) And as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards and grant them extra from His bounty. But as for those who disdained and were arrogant, He will punish them with a painful punishment, and they will not find for themselves besides Allah any protector or helper. (173) O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light. (174) So those who believe in Allah and hold fast to Him – He will admit them to mercy from Himself and bounty and guide them to Himself on a straight path. (175)

          Quran Chapter 6

          March 15, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
      • otoh2

        Josephus wrote about Hercules a few times too. Here's one:

        That from Surim was the land of Assyria denominated; and that from the other two (Apher and Ja.pbran) the country of Africa took its name, because these men were auxiliaries to Hercules, when he fought against Libya and Antaeus; and that Hercules married Aphra's daughter, and of her he begat a son, Diodorus; and that Sophon was his son, from whom that barbarous people called Sophacians were denominated."
        http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ant-1.htm\

        Does that mean that the fabled Hercules and his fantastical feats were real?

        March 15, 2014 at 5:52 pm |
    • lewcypher

      You do realize that all references to a person named Jesus external to the bible provide no evidence that it is the same person nor provide any evidence for the persons alleged divinity.

      Might as well be David Koresh

      March 15, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
      • rshultz210

        Not true. The Roman historian Tacitus makes reference to Jesus as being crucified by Pontius Pilate. That can ONLY mean Jesus of Nazareth. All the historical references to Jesus if taken in context instead of out of context and incompletely as you have done refer to Jesus as being the same man crucified by Pilate. You heathen atheists will do anything including telling lies to "prove" that Jesus did not exist. Never mind that the VAST majority of the worlds finest scholars are against you.

        March 16, 2014 at 9:24 pm |
  6. bostontola

    It is amazing how easily people can see the flaws in every other religion than their own:

    "This is where Islam (an Abrahamic faith) comes in to rectify the issues that plagued Judaism (chosen people theme) and Christianity (deviation from the worship of the one God). Universal to all Humanity the same MEssage that Prophet Abraham (Peace and Blessings Upon all of them) preached."

    March 15, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
    • islamistheanswer

      Where do you stand? What do you believe in? Nothing! Evolution! J

      March 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
      • bostontola

        I believe there is no God. I believe earthly life emerged from chemistry, and thermodynamics.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Time well-spent.. Perhaps you would learn something to refute in our future discussions 🙂 (Just Kidding) Really, this is time well-spent.

          http://youtu.be/7d16CpWp-ok

          March 15, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Who is God anyway?

          http://youtu.be/POGgOkPX1gM

          March 15, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
        • new-man

          and yet the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics which "is the state of disorderliness of a system.” This basically means that, left to its own device a system will always go to disorder/entropy.

          And we know -In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
          And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Gen 1:1-2)

          Left to itself, “things will never arrange themselves to a degree of higher order.”

          Not a debate I wish to pursue though.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:09 pm |
        • bostontola

          new-man,
          This is why you need to avoid arguing from ignorance. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies only to closed systems. The earth is an extremely open system. We receive an enormous amount of energy from the Sun and quite a bit of matter from asteroids/meteorites. You might want to take a physics class or two, it is a fascinating subject.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "And we know -In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

          No that is what your book of fairy tales says, there is nothing to support it. What we do know is that you can't know if a god had a hand in it because there is zero evidence for god (the bible is circular reasoning and thus doesn't count as evidence) and that by stating it was you are being blatantly dishonest.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:24 pm |
        • new-man

          I see you've fallen back to your tried and tired position of throwing around the "ignorance" term. You should reflect on why this is so, as we all know you do not possess all knowledge.

          The universe a closed system.
          Yes, you may throw in your conditions to argue it's an open system, that's why I said I don't wish to argue the point.

          pride would dictate I defend your ignorant accusations; however wisdom dictates otherwise.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
        • Doris

          "pride would dictate I defend your ignorant accusations; however wisdom dictates otherwise."

          lol. i can only guess that comes from the discard pile at the Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
        • new-man

          Doris,
          as an older lady, you should have realized by now that there is more to life than sowing seeds of discord.
          You should try it, the benefits/harvest are tremendous.

          Blessings.

          March 15, 2014 at 5:11 pm |
        • Doris

          "sowing seeds of discord"

          you mean like a team of evangelists traveling to Africa and inciting people to kill other people – that kind of discord?

          March 15, 2014 at 5:43 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @new-man,
          You misunderstand the 2LOT. It does not disallow all decrease in entropy, just a sum total decrease. Local increases in "order" (similar to a decrease in entropy), at the expense of total "order" is fine. This means the use of energy to increase "order" is fine because some energy is always lost and increases the total entropy.

          March 15, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • ri0088

          @new-man "The universe a closed system."

          Hooray. Yet the EARTH is an OPEN system. Sunlight (with low entropy) shines on it and heat (with higher entropy) radiates off. This flow of energy, and the change in entropy that accompanies it, can and will power local decreases in entropy on earth.

          "and yet the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics which "is the state of disorderliness of a system.” This basically means that, left to its own device a system will always go to disorder/entropy."

          -The second law of thermodynamics says no such thing. It says that heat will not spontaneously flow from a colder body to a warmer one. This does not prevent increasing order since the earth isn't a closed system. Two, disorder and entropy are NOT the same. Sometimes order increases as entropy increases. Entropy can even be used to produce order. Even in a closed system, pockets of lower entropy can form if they are offset by increased entropy elsewhere in the system. There are no laws about things tending to "break down."

          March 16, 2014 at 1:16 am |
      • unsername1

        http://youtu.be/xTSYdo3j9qg

        March 16, 2014 at 7:42 pm |
        • observer

          “Whoever does any work on a holy day - put to death”
          “anyone who blasphemes - stone him.”
          “worship other gods - stone the guilty ones to death”
          “stubborn and rebellious son - stone him to death.”
          “man is found lying with a married woman - both of them shall die”
          “virgin engaged to another man and he lies with her - stone them to death”
          “Whoever strikes his father or his mother - put to death”
          "Anyone who says cruel things to his father or mother - put to death.”
          “anyone who curses his father or his mother - put to death”
          “man who commits adultery with another man's wife - they shall be put to death.”
          "man or woman who is a medium or a fortune-teller - stone them to death"

          From the Quran? Nope. From the Bible

          March 16, 2014 at 7:46 pm |
    • kevinite

      "It is amazing how easily people can see the flaws in every other religion than their own"

      Does that apply to beliefs as well such as with athiesm?

      March 15, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
      • bostontola

        Yes. Please point out the flaws in the belief that there are no Gods.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • kevinite

          Well, at least there doesn't seem be any problems in the humility department.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
        • kevinite

          Is there even a humility department?

          March 15, 2014 at 4:14 pm |
        • bostontola

          Kevin,
          Humility, arrogance, intelligence, kindness, etc. are roughly equally expressed in all religions and atheists as far as I can tell.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • kevinite

          Well you at least recognize that. What about in regards to bigotry?

          March 15, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • bostontola

          Kevin,
          My experience (not good evidence) is that people are people regardless of their beliefs. I'd have to see research to have a strong conviction on that.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
        • kevinite

          From my observations I would agree with you there. I personally believe that religion is not meant to be a means for so called perfect people to come together, but rather that it should be a means for faulty people to come together in trying to help each other to work on our faults.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Those who say, "Our Lord, indeed we have believed, so forgive us our sins and protect us from the punishment of the Fire," (16) The patient, the true, the obedient, those who spend [in the way of Allah], and those who seek forgiveness before dawn. (17) Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him, and [so do] the angels and those of knowledge – [that He is] maintaining [creation] in justice. There is no deity except Him, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (18) Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them – out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah, then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account. (19) So if they argue with you, say, "I have submitted myself to Allah [in Islam], and [so have] those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture and [to] the unlearned, "Have you submitted yourselves?" And if they submit [in Islam], they are rightly guided; but if they turn away – then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants. (20) Those who disbelieve in the signs of Allah and kill the prophets without right and kill those who order justice from among the people – give them tidings of a painful punishment. (21) They are the ones whose deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and for them there will be no helpers. (22)

          َQuran Chapter 3. Bear in mind that Islam means submission and it is the religion of all the prophets before including Moses and Jesus Peace be Upon Them All.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Actually it isn't. The Jews worshiped Yahweh.
          They were forbidden to worship the Arab moon-god (Sin/Al-ilah/Allah).
          You can try to white-wash history, and some ignorant people *might* buy into it.
          The truth will out, eventually.
          Claiming the moon is made of green cheese does not make it so.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:51 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          For your information, The Jews were forbidden to worship all the GODS (in plural form) of the Arabs because the Arabs worshiped the Sun, The Moon, and hundreds of other Goddesses. Those Gods were not referred to as ALLAH. ALLAH is the sole name of the ONE GOD that the Jews believed in and that early Christians believed in. As a matter of fact, Arab Christians refer to the Almighty as ALLAH. You are completely ignorant about that history. All what the Arabs believed in was nullified with the revelation of the Quran that returned people to the Monothestic belief (Islam didn't "retain" the God of the Arabs).

          March 15, 2014 at 5:02 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Here is some Enlightenment about God

          http://youtu.be/POGgOkPX1gM

          March 15, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          And why as a Muslim, I love Jesus
          http://youtu.be/YNGqrzkFp_4

          March 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Archaeology has proven you completely wrong.
          You asserting things that history knows is false, does not make your claims true.
          The Satanic Verses PROVE that the Arabic moon good was the precursor (and same deity as) Allah.
          YOU STILL have not refuted ONE claim of Spencer's, or any of mine in the link provided. You can't.
          You are totally ignorant of ancient Near Eastern culture and history, as you have time and again demonstrated.

          March 15, 2014 at 5:51 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          @realbuckyball: You can find my response in my blog at http://islamistheanswer.wordpress.com/

          Not all do I refute ONE claim from those made by Robert Spencer, I go on to refute ALL of them in fact. Enjoy and don't let your arrogance and vanity veil your heart to what is substantiated and presented.

          March 16, 2014 at 1:18 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          This is in response to a video posted by buckyball in which he contended that I couldn’t refute ONE of the claims made by Robert Spencer in a video that he posted in the first page of the comments of this article (you can watch the video by going to the first comment page). I took the time to refute ALL of the claims..
          So I finally got around hearing the video that you posted by Robert Spencer and his claims that Mohammed didn’t exist. Let me start by saying that from your writing I had wrongly assumed that you were logical, rational, and methodical in what is const-ituted as a proof or evidence upon which one could firmly believe in the conclusions presented. Throughout your comments and responses, you had referred (and perhaps others) to the Gospel, and the Quran alike as fairy-tales and I can’t resist but to mention that all what Robert Spencer presented in this video was nothing but a fairy-tale that has no basis whatsoever. The difference is that I will go through all the items here and share with you why I believe that they are fairy tales unlike YOU who opted to use this video to support your claim that the Quran is a fairy-tale (a mere opinion of a single person who chose to think that his analysis is the basis of an entire religion – I urge you to read the criticism section of his biography page in Wikipedia) :).. This article is also meant to be educational in nature to every reader on some of the theological aspects of Islam.
          Did Mohammed Exist? It is sad that the question is even posed. Yes he did exist and he is the prophet of the second largest religion in the world (universal religion) with 1.8 billion followers in the world today. Mr. Spencer demonstrated time after another in this video that he doesn’t know much about Islam or the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). His Video could be summarized as follows:
          • Mohammed didn’t exist and was created (no historical basis that he existed)
          • Islam was created to support a political agenda to expand the empire at the time
          • Islam doesn’t teach universal brotherhood, love and peace like other religions do (cited 98:6)
          • Quran was not collected until 60 years after the death of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him)
          • The Prophet’s tradition was not collected until 125 years later (first biography of the prophet). Huge material was made up and it was a lie that spread
          • Tradition doesn’t talk about what Prophet did with the leap month up until 627 when abolished (Arabs used to add that month to correct for a lunar calendar)
          • There are no instances in which non-Muslims enjoyed equal rights under Islamic rule (No Equality)
          • Islam contradict const-itutional freedom rights
          Let me start addressing those points one by one. Please note that I don’t claim to be a scholar or a person of substantial knowledge in the faith so with my modest knowledge, I was shocked to see the preposterous claims laid out in this video.
          • Mohammed didn’t exist and was created (no historical basis that he existed)
          He did exist. Mr. Spencer talks about history and historical evidence and fails to address a crucial and elemental point of what he makes of the Quran – the one big miracle of Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). Suffice it to say that this book is a challenge to the entire humanity to find a single contradiction in it throughout its 600 pages. The book that has both scientific evidences and prophecies that no other book had – I am talking about tens of those. If Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) didn’t exist, where did this book come from? Please don’t just foolishly and naively say that books can be written because this is not a book (any book); this is a book that humanity is challenged to find a single contradiction in it for the past 1400 years ago but hasn’t been able to!
          Now to add to the above, aside from the Quran and “historical records” that a lot of people doubt are accurate (and by the way Mr. Spencer apparently relies on those handpicked, carefully selected records in making his points), what else could be presented to confirm that Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) did exist? For one, I and many other in the Muslim world come from the lineage of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). It is an honor beyond imagination! However, this lineage is kept throughout time in a clear and manifest record. Each descendent of the prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) has the tree that traces his or her lineage to the prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). This offspring of the prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) is all over the world today as one could image but all can be validated to the source. In every generation these records and updated and are well kept. It is one thing to argue that history is “written by the powerful” but it is another thing to tell a man that his father “is not” or didn’t exist! Ironic isn’t it?
          • Islam was created to support a political agenda to expand the empire at the time
          Mere theory and has not basis. Mr. Spencer just illustrated why he thought so which none of it made sense by the way. I’d rather focus on something worthwhile commenting on.
          • Islam doesn’t teach universal brotherhood, love and peace like other religions do (cited 98:6)
          This is the only time that Mr. Spencer quoted from the Quran (thanks God!). Not sure how he came up with this conclusion. The verse he cited is shown here for reference (verse 6 but I am pasting the whole chapter for you to judge – obviously Mr. Spencer wouldn’t share with you the context the verse was revealed nor the intent of it). As shown below, this is addressing the disbelievers who disbelieved after they ahve received the scripture and the truth from God to worship him alone and after all this clear evidence they were given, they disbelieved. Those Allah says are the worst creature (in comparison to the best creatures in the sight of Allah and those by the way include Muslims, Christians and Jews who are on the monotheistic belief of God). I can go and write pages on Islam and brotherhood, love and peace but I want to address the claims that Mr. Spencer had in his video that folks like you yourself USE to come to the conclusion that Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) didn’t exist!
          Those who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists were not to be parted [from misbelief] until there came to them clear evidence – (1) A Messenger from Allah, reciting purified scriptures (2) Within which are correct writings. (3) Nor did those who were given the Scripture become divided until after there had come to them clear evidence. (4) And they were not commanded except to worship Allah, [being] sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakah. And that is the correct religion. (5) Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures. (6)Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds – those are the best of creatures. (7)
          • Quran was not collected until 60 years after the death of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him)
          Mr. Spencer mentioned that the Quran is mentioned in the Islamic books that it was collected during the third Caliph, Othman may Allah be pleased with him some 28 years after the passing of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). This is another incorrect and I would have said misconstrued, but the truth is it was deliberately said to create confusion and doubt in the hearts of many. The simple truth is that the Quran was COLLECTED during the Prophet’s time (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). It was also RECORDED and REVIEWED by the Prophet HIMSELF (You could imagine the importance of preserving the word of God!). It would be naive of an ordinary person to think that what is in his mind and heart would be preserved after his demise, let alone the prophet of God (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). So the fact is that the Quran was Collected and Recorded during the time of the prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). Then, what is this story that it was collected during the time of Othman (the third Caliph). As Mr. Spencer mention, the Islamic empire expanded greatly during that time so what happened was naturally newly entrants to Islam learned the Quran and doctrine from people of knowledge and memorizers of the Quran who happened to be there to teach people the affairs of their faith. An effort had not be done by then to accompany every mission with a recorded book (Large number of Muslims at the time memorized the Quran in its entirety). The locals however were learning the Quran but started to record it in their own dialects which alerted the Caliph that this could be an issue in the way of preserving the holy book. Therefore, he ordered all the written texts in the different dialects be collected and burned and instead furnished a single copy that was to be the only one that is distributed throughout the empire. Is it possible that this copy could have been different from the one that the prophet collected? NO. After the death of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him), the first Caliph, Abu Baker, Collected all the different records in which the Quran was recorded (written on leather and others on bones). He passed it to Omar (2nd Caliph) who in turn passed it to his daughter Hafsa (My ALLAH be pleased with all of them). Othman (3rd Caliph) got this particular copy that was the same memorized by the masses at the time to be recorded and sent out to 4 cities of the Muslim world at the time.. This is the story of the preservation of the Quran. Also, bear in mind that people memorized this book and some memorizers exist until today that have approval traced back to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) himself (i.e. approved by a teacher who was approved by his teacher traced back to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him)). I personally know man (not to mention that are 10s of millions today that have it memorized but not authenticated by a teacher who learned it traced to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him))… Moving on to the next item!
          • The Prophet’s tradition was not collected until 125 years later (first biography of the prophet). Huge material was made up and it was a lie that spread
          Again and again, incorrect information. Based on those claims, the naive and the ignorant would truly think that this is the truth about Islam and Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). The prophet’s tradition (Hadith) was memorized also by the companions of the prophet and those who followed them. The first generation had the tradition memorized not through active memorization but also through practice as they did EVERYTHING that the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) instructed – no wonder they were victorious in their affairs not just through the expansion of the Islamic state but through the purification of their souls and how they transformed to a civilized society at a time where Arabs were truly tribal and barbaric. This tradition began to pass from the first generation to the next and while Mr. Spencer claims that the tradition wasn’t collected until 125 years later, the truth is that it was recorded since the time of the prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him). What was gathered as collections thereafter qualified the tradition or Hadith based on their authenticity. The traditions are narrated through a chain of narrations. This chain of narrations (people who narrated from the prophet) are classified in terms of their trustworthiness and credibility. If in the chain of narration there was a person who had questionable character, then that particular narration is discounted. If there exists a person who is not known to have exhibited any questionable character but rather was not known enough through people who could firmly attest to his worthiness, then that tradition became an OK (good) tradition but is not considered AUTHENTIC. The third category which is the Authentic is the one with a KNOWN chain of narration of trustworthy people who were never known to have lied, joked about the matter of the faith, etc… Mr. Spencer is not aware of these details. The material that he refers to as a lie was nothing but the exercise of collecting the authentic tradition not to differentiate it from “fake” traditions but rather from traditions that came through people who were not FULLY vetted (not through knowing that those were lies – that generation was a different scale of integrity and personal conduct)..
          • Tradition doesn’t talk about what Prophet did with the leap month up until 627 when abolished (Arabs used to add that month to correct for a lunar calendar)
          Incorrect and Deceiving again! The Hijri calendar that Muslims use actually come from the word Hijrah which means migration and it marked the migration of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) from Mecca to Madina. There were no leap calendar additions to the lunar calendar thereafter. Prior to that the call to Islam in Mecca was limited and was mostly done in secret. The Islamic State started thereafter. Mr. Spencer says that leap months were added until 627 but there is no record of what the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him) did during that month since the acts of worship like fasting the month of Ramadan is tied to the calendar and moves with the calendar. Answer to that is, Calendar started in 622 rather and hence whatever compensation you mention was nullified thereafter not 5 years later.
          • There are no instances in which non-Muslims enjoyed equal rights under Islamic rule (No Equality)
          I really won’t bother to try to convince you in this regard because the renaissance that the world had seen through the ruling of the Muslims is only apparent to those versed with “History”. Suffice it to say that Jews for one had this to say about their time under the Islamic ruling (check out the Golden Age for Jews in the Middle Ages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain)
          • Islam contradict const-itutional freedom rights
          What does Mr. Spencer and you for that matter rely on to say that Islam contradicts freedom rights? Saudi Arabia? I told you in a prior post, the government there is the biggest scam in the History of Islam so I would not use it as a reference when generalizing about Islam. Could you quote anything from the Quran that validates this claim?
          In conclusion, you have contended that I haven’t not addressed the claims of Mr. Spencer and that I CAN’T. I didn’t have to do much here but listen to the video and write this response to show the ignorance of Mr. Spencer and his lack of knowledge about Islam and those who use him as an authority and reference to conclude that Islam is a violent religion and that Mohammed didn’t exist (a joke for those who read my response with an open mind).. I hope you re-read this post with an open mind and heart and learn not to rely on journalists and historians on forming your own opinions. Always validate and dig for the resources and SOURCE used to form an informed opinion. May God guide us all to the straight path and I apologize for the lengthy post!

          March 18, 2014 at 11:37 pm |
        • Doris

          No.

          March 19, 2014 at 12:10 am |
  7. bostontola

    How can you guys say this stuff with a straight face?

    "The Holy Trinity, One Godhead Three Persons—Father, Son (Lord Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit—has three distinct "Persons" of One Shared Existence, hence "Hypostases." The use of the word "Person" is but a translation for the lack of a better term."

    March 15, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
    • islamistheanswer

      In a classic debate, "Is the Bible the Word of God". This "Person" phrase is treated and debated thoroughly. Check it out: great debate

      http://youtu.be/IlA22NNFlDw

      March 15, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
  8. chosenbygrace

    "Jesus probably didn’t know everything." This is a nonsensical claim:

    1. How would the person who wrote that know? Are they some dumb atheist? I'd bet yes.
    2. The Bible doesn't say Jesus knew everything outright, so it's a strawman claim. It says he grew in wisdom, and implies that when he reached about 30 years of age, knew everything except when Judgement Day would commence, because it was being kept from him by God.

    March 15, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      No. What's a "strawman claim" is without FIRST establishing it as a legitimate source of truth for anything, using the Bible as 'telling us" anything. The Bible is FULL of contradictions. It's totally unreliable.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
    • magicpanties

      My invisible pink unicorn knows everything.
      Even judgement day.
      But she told me not to tell you.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
    • Akira

      I am glad that you glossed over the fact that it was written by Rev. James Martin in your hurry to bash people who don't believe exactly as you do. It shows your Christian charitable spirit towards mankind.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
      • the0g0to0the0t

        LOL... and the 2nd point is invalid because the rev was referring to what many people believe. In a way, the OP proved the author's point. Many people believe this (that he knew everything or nearly so) and yet there is strong evidence in the bible that he did not.

        March 16, 2014 at 10:57 am |
    • MidwestKen

      @chosenbygrace,
      The author is a Jesuit Priest, so Athiest, no. Whether dumb or not I'll leave to others.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:37 pm |
    • pullenseeker

      Fr. Martin is not an atheist by any definition. Your concern is understandable, but wrongheaded. Growth in wisdom in no way implies omniscience. Scripture tells us Jesus was like us in every way except sin. If we cannot claim to know everything, neither could He.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:42 pm |
  9. magicpanties

    How about 5 things you didn't know about Santa Claus?
    That would be just as relevant.

    March 15, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
  10. Jubei

    Still waiting for irrevocable fact that he really existed and I'd the son of God. It doesn't help that the bible is full of holes and nothing to corroborate it with facts.

    March 15, 2014 at 3:18 pm |
  11. nickcady

    I actually did know all these things about Jesus.

    March 15, 2014 at 3:13 pm |
    • bostontola

      Did you know Jesus wasn't even the messiah never mind the son of God?

      March 15, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Did you know jesus is the result of rape?

      March 15, 2014 at 3:22 pm |
      • djangoboy

        Correct. His father was a Roman soldier named Nautius Maximus.

        March 15, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • rshultz210

          People like you and TruthPrevails are obviously not only heathens but totally lack civility, compassion, and suffer from severe personality disorder. Your filthy heretical jokes should be censored and as much as I would like to extend compassion to you both I can't. You should both be punched dead center in the face hard enough to break your noses and knock out a couple of teeth. This the only way some people can be taught manners.

          March 17, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • observer

          rshultz210

          "You should both be punched dead center in the face hard enough to break your noses and knock out a couple of teeth."

          Yep. Just like Jesus would do.

          Keep the HYPOCRISY coming.

          March 17, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
      • the0g0to0the0t

        Even if there was consent, she was 16 and he was infinite years old so I guess you could argue for pedophilia.

        March 16, 2014 at 10:59 am |
    • magicpanties

      Did you know my invisible pink unicorn knew him personally?
      Yeah, they played beer pong, best buds.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
  12. dannrusso

    Reblogged this on Dann Russo's Blog.

    March 15, 2014 at 3:08 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      So?

      Why should we drive your page views?

      March 15, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Looks like it is to promote his band.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
  13. jaharaq

    #6) Jesus was a Black man.

    "His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze" Revelation 1:14

    Sorry, white folks. Wooly hair and burnished bronze feet doesn't describe the flaxen haired, pale-skinned Jared Leto looking presentation that most of you would like to believe is accurate. Oh,and I'm white, by the way, so don't bother making this a race thing. If this bothers you, take it up with your Bible for sharing the description.

    March 15, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
    • Doris

      Well that's OK, as long as he had eyes like Jared Leto.... 🙄

      March 15, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
      • otoh2

        Jared Leto and Cameron Diaz were once a twosome. Can you imagine what their children's eyes might have looked like!

        March 15, 2014 at 3:12 pm |
        • Doris

          Oh good point, they might have come out like that "Ra" character from the original Stargate movie. lol.

          March 15, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
        • Akira

          That dude was also in "The Crying Game". I read he was in the fashion industry now.

          March 15, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
        • Doris

          Oh I just realized he has dark eyes, not like Cameron & Jared. I guess they stood out in Stargate because they did something to make the whites of the eye shine unnaturally for the Ra character.

          March 15, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • Doris

          Speaking of Cameron Diaz relationships, Alex Rodriguez is not too shabby in the eye department...

          March 15, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
        • Akira

          I notice he has striking eyes, also. But I like Jared Leto better.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • Doris

          Well...if they preserved some Paul W. eye genetic data and combined that with some JL data.........lol

          March 15, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • Doris

          with just a dash of Kelly Slater of course.....

          March 15, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
    • magicpanties

      #7) Jesus is a fictional combination of various pagan mythologies that preceded Christianity

      March 15, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
  14. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    "Jesus probably didn’t know everything."

    Unquote.

    I claim that he knew everything.

    Why?

    The mystery of Jesus Christ was that he had got a divine nature and a human nature perfectly united but not mingled. Jesus Christ even had got two wills, a divine one and a human one. The human will always submitted to the divine will: The man Jesus remained always in God through submitting his will to the will of Christ. Jesus was a man who was, is and will be always in God. He was yet in God before his birth. He was yet in God when he was born into the womb of his mother Mary. He was yet in God when he was born into the world leaving the womb of his mother. He remained in God even in Gethsemane when he knew that he had to face crucifixion next day. Though Jesus was a human being like we are, he was distinct from us: He did not wish to act against God's will or his divine nature (Christ). He accepted the rule of his divine nature (Christ), he even welcomed this rule all the time. We, in contrast, always forsake God even without any pressure (Adam forsook God though he had everything in the Paradise). We are a godless race by nature. Jesus indeed was a new Adam.

    When the divine nature of Jesus Christ, that means Christ or God, did not wish to reveal something, Jesus simply said that he would not know it but the Father. But actually, strictly speaking, he only did not wish to reveal something. It was less a matter of not-knowing than a matter of his will.

    That Jesus Christ was man and God at the same time proves the following:

    Matthew 17: 1-7

    The transfiguration of Jesus (Christ)

    And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

    This passage is a clear proof that Jesus Christ could have behaved as God even on earth when it had been his will. But it was not his will. Jesus Christ wanted to be crucified as a man for the sake of our salvation: He has borne our sinful flesh or nature when he died for us on the cross. We have resurrected together with him, if we believe, and if we are sacramentally baptized.

    Jesus Christ said he would not know the hour of his second coming but actually he did not want to reveal it.

    As all churches worldwide turn apostate today, I believe that the hour of his second coming is very near.

    Let us pray that Israel converts to Jesus soon. That is the last condition that must be fulfilled before Christ can return.

    What is Armageddon?

    The whole world becomes increasingly anti-Christian. Even the churches turn apostate. Certainly the Wicked welcomes that, and promotes that. He is very happy about that development, about a mankind which adores him (the Wicked). Maybe he doesn't reckon that Israel would ever accept Jesus Christ as Messiah. When they do this, the Antichrist will become very angry because that this pis-ses on his parade. He and his wicked armies will attack Israel, and then Jesus Christ will return for the sake of his people Israel, and save them. He will destroy the Antichrist and his armies with the breath of his mouth.

    March 15, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
    • Akira

      "Jesus Christ said he would not know the hour of his second coming but actually he did not want to reveal it."

      You're calling Jesus a liar??

      March 15, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        That has nothing to do with lie. You do not understand the matter. Mind a little!

        March 15, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
      • Akira

        You just SAID "Jesus Christ said he would not know the hour of his second coming but actually he did not want to reveal it."

        I understand much more of the matter than you'd rather admit. If Jesus knew, but said he didn't, He lied.

        You don't know what the hell you're even pontificating about, and you rebuke ME like I'm 5?
        You're full of it. Proofread your posts so you don't imply Jesus is a liar.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
    • Doris

      Lol. Oh, comedy gold as they say...

      March 15, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
      • Akira

        Really, the more I read of some poster's interpretations, the more I shake my head and wonder where it comes from....and then they giving to bash other faiths for theirs? Yet Christianity isn't divisive. Noooo , not at all.

        Inconceivable.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:10 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Utter nonsense.
      2 "natures" is meaningless. If they were "un-mingled" one would not speak to the other.
      It's self-refuting. The word "nature" in the way you are using it is meaningless.
      Humans are human because they are born of human parents with 46 chromosomes.
      Beings are what they are. There is no evidence for "divine beings".
      "Beings" exist. Ranier cannot even define a "being" without invoking a temporally dependent concept. His deity REQUIRES spacetime a priori. All meaningless unexamined nonsense.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
    • bostontola

      "The whole world becomes increasingly anti-Christian. Even the churches turn apostate"

      You Abrahamics have the sloppiest God ever. The recurring theme is that the majority of His creation must be obliterated.

      Your view seems more Jewish to me. Back to the exclusivity of a small minority that gets to go to be with God in heaven.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
      • islamistheanswer

        This is where Islam (an Abrahamic faith) comes in to rectify the issues that plagued Judaism (chosen people theme) and Christianity (deviation from the worship of the one God). Universal to all Humanity the same MEssage that Prophet Abraham (Peace and Blessings Upon all of them) preached.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Actually Islam is NOT an "Abrahamic faith". Allah developed from the Arab god "Sin". Al-Ilah was the crescent phase of the moon-god, worshiped by most in ancient Arabian culture. The Hebrews were constantly being told to STOP worshiping Sin. There are mountains of archeological evidence for these facts.
          http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Ask-a-Muslim-split-from-introductions?page=25
          Even a Mullah could not refute these facts.

          March 15, 2014 at 3:43 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          What does Mullah mean? Do you know? I am sure you don't but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and read your response.

          What classifies "Abrahamic Faiths"? Not even sure you know that. Abraham believe in one God that had no partners. From within his lineage came the branch of Prophet Isaac through which came all the prophets to Moses and then Jesus (Peace and Blessings be Upon All of them). There was also the Ishmail branch from which Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessing be upon him).

          The one who refuses the Abrahamic faith (And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous. (2:130))..

          They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists." (135) Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (136) So if they believe in the same as you believe in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the Hearing, the Knowing. (137) [And say, "Ours is] the religion of Allah. And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshippers of Him." (138) Say, [O Muhammad], "Do you argue with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. And we are sincere [in deed and intention] to Him." (139) Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do. (140) That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. (141)

          March 15, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Actually Abraham never existed. He was a myth. Yahweh and Sin were different deities. "Abrahamic" means they worshiped the SAME deity. They did not. Neither the Jews nor the Arabs were monotheists. The Hebrews who believed in Yahweh were POLYTHEISTS, who agreed, even while believing in many gods, to worship one, (the god of the armies, to gain help in their battles). You are totally ignorant of ancient culture, history and religions. You know nothing. Even the first Quran had more than 1 deity. Allah had 3 divine daughters, (just as Sin did until they were removed and called the "Satanic verses"). You really ought to learn something about your own cult before you keep making a fool of yourself.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
      • new-man

        actually, the number in heaven will be quite large.
        John saw a great multi.tude which no man could number!

        March 15, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • bostontola

          There is apparently a wide variation in the opinions of Christians. So much for one Truth.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
        • new-man

          that's why it's always incu.mbent upon one to seek truth for themselves instead of relying upon the doctrines of man.

          It is the Holy Spirit that leads you into all truth. If a person had the truth, there would be no need for the Holy Spirit to lead/teach you all truth.
          So, in conclusion, reading the Bible without the leading/guidance of the Holy Spirit, one is essentially trying to drive a vehicle without fuel... they have no power to get anywhere.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • bostontola

          Many Christians follow the Holy Spirit to different conclusions. It is not a reliable process. Contrast that with science. Peer review, independent verification, culture of skepticism to flush out error and fraud, the results speak for themselves. Science isn't perfect, but it's track record is better than any other system yet designed.

          March 15, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • djangoboy

          They couldn't count very high back then. Forty was a big number.

          March 15, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
  15. bostontola

    From Islamistheanswer:
    "This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah – (2) Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them, (3) And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. (4) Those are upon [right] guidance from their Lord, and it is those who are the successful. (5)"

    Christians, are you swayed by this post? If not, why do you extend the same argument for Christianity and the bible?

    March 15, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
    • Salero21

      JAJAJA... oops... I meant to say HAHAHA 😉 😀 😀 This one atheist choose to swarm like a fly to a different corpse other than the RCC.

      March 15, 2014 at 3:22 pm |
      • bostontola

        Couldn't answer the question?

        March 15, 2014 at 3:26 pm |
      • islamistheanswer

        [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POGgOkPX1gM?list=UUxBR44IXdJY0gsfHcIDMQuQ&w=560&h=315%5D

        March 15, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
      • islamistheanswer

        Noticed the link above was not displayed properly for the video. Here it is again:
        http://youtu.be/POGgOkPX1gM

        March 22, 2014 at 7:26 pm |
  16. Salero21

    Really, really people!! Oh I can see atheists flocking again to agree with the asinine teachings of an Idolater from the RCC. They do it like flies swarming to a corpse.

    The Only thing that Jesus himself said He didn't know was the day of His Return to the World. Only the Father knows that.

    As far as Jesus "learning" that His Ministry was to extend beyond ISRAEL.
    That's one big piece of NON-Sense. Only an Idolater leader can construct such gibberish to feed their ignorant faithless flock of goats!

    Jesus first of all was reminding the woman of some things she already knew; That in her pagan culture Hom.ose.xua.lity was a common Sin. That's why He alluded to and made use of Dogs as an epithet and that she was part of an Idolatrous culture. And that Canaanites were enemies of Israel. Once the woman acknowledge the Facts she knew well, she proceeded to humble and humiliate herself before the Son of the Almighty God, as we ALL should.

    Jesus challenged her knowledge, understanding and her faith. He demanded in exchange for the request that HE really was willing to grant, public humiliation and Faith. She showed Faith and humiliated in front of all present to see. Her Faith was increased and Rewarded!! It was the disciples and the woman who needed to learn HIS Ministry extended beyond Israel, NOT Jesus.

    The narrative of this event is found in both the Gospels of Matthew and Mark Mat. 15:21-28; Mk.7:25-30. Which BTW the author of the article strangely enough omits to quote. There is nothing to learn about Jesus in this article. It's conclusions and interpretations are NOT faithful to the texts much less to the whole Context of the Gospels and the Bible. As is Clearly demonstrated in this silly ninny statement →→ "He seems to be learning that his ministry extends beyond the Jewish people." ←← 😛

    March 15, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
    • new-man

      Salero21: "It was the disciples and the woman who needed to learn HIS Ministry extended beyond Israel, NOT Jesus."

      This is true and an excellent point!

      March 15, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
    • Akira

      "Jesus first of all was reminding the woman of some things she already knew; That in her pagan culture Hom.ose.xua.lity was a common Sin."

      Chapter and Verse where he reminds her if that specifically. You are inferring you own opinions into that.
      Chapter and Verse where He says anything about homosexuals at all.

      March 15, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
      • Salero21

        I explained that yesterday. I'm not wasting time with you little dog!!

        March 15, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
        • Akira

          No you didn't. You never gave me Chapter and Verse where Jesus said anything about homosexuals. There's nothing to "explain." Post the verse.

          Oh, Salero. You outdo yourself on every chromosome that ends in "21!"

          March 15, 2014 at 3:42 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Really ? Really ? Nope.
      Atheists dismiss ALL the claims of ALL religionists. To say "god exists" means a deity MUST participate (a priori) in only *part* of Realty, (existence vs non-existence). A deity which MUST participate in the very Reality it supposedly created, is no "creator" .

      March 15, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
      • Salero21

        Whaaat!! Another big chunk of Evidence that atheism is Total stupidity!! Absolutely Incredible and unacceptable to men of reason and reasonable men. Not even in Hollywood will they believe and accept your absurd non-sense.

        March 15, 2014 at 3:19 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Woops. Nice rant ...except you forgot ONE thing. You refuted NOTHING.
          Keep trying though.

          March 15, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
    • Akira

      And you think the literal meaning of "“It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.”" is "It is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the homosexuals."?

      March 15, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
    • Doris

      The real author of [fill in the blank with either Mark, Matthew or Luke]: "OK, I've read this cool story, so I'll write a slightly different version and I'll write it as if I'm claiming these things from the perspective of this other character in the story."

      The real author of John: "Hey that's a neat story – it would be cooler if I write it from this John character's point of view as if he knew the claims we hear about other events in the life of this Jesus character. Cool beans.....

      March 15, 2014 at 2:57 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      What a horrible fairy tale to tell. You should be ashamed of yourself for willfully scaring innocent children!!

      March 15, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
      • championsleaguer

        Frightening would be the darkness of your heart. You clearly despise the truth.

        March 16, 2014 at 3:20 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          championsleaguer: No darkness in my heart, that is a misconception of your behalf. Despising the lies told by the bible is what this is, there is very little truth within the bible. It is christians who tend to despise the truth or they certainly wouldn't be christian. For examply, when it comes to LGBT, they only care what is written in their book, nto what the actual scientific evidence states. Although I'm guessing that you, like many other of your ilk don't follow the bible totally or you'd still own slaves; be willing to marry your daughter off to her rapist; stopping your wife from speaking; beating innocent children; killing LGBT.
          The truth is something most Atheists seek and thus the reason we reject all gods. Intolerance of such a horrific book that is used to try to dictate law is not a bad thing, especially when it comes to rights that are not the christians business and does not directly affect them. Keep the belief in your home and church where it belongs and you won't hear from us, until then we will take a stand against it.

          March 16, 2014 at 4:22 am |
        • championsleaguer

          I never published this article ("Keep the belief in your home..."). Your very breath, your birth that put you on this earth, is a gift from God. Your detesting the Scripture is noted by he who has created everything on this earth and in the heavens above. It gives me joy to know this. I wish you the very best in your endeavors, provided it does not involve attacking others!

          March 16, 2014 at 11:25 am |
    • djangoboy

      "The Only thing that Jesus himself said He didn't know was the day of His Return to the World. Only the Father knows that."

      Woops, but isn't Jesus also God? Or is he only partially God? Did some parts of God get left out? Like the knowing everything stuff?

      March 15, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
  17. aevangelista7

    Jesus was just a man. But Christianity works anyway. That's the truth.

    March 15, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
    • Doris

      Well on Facebook, I guess that game "Farmville" works.....

      March 15, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Utilitarianism is a slippery slope. So did National Socialism "work".

      March 15, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
      • djangoboy

        But only until 1945.

        March 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm |
    • championsleaguer

      You will certainly become privy to the truth.

      March 16, 2014 at 3:23 am |
  18. Bob

    The whole Jesus-sacrifice-salvation storyline, the foundation of the Christian superstitions, is nonsense out of the gate. How is it that an omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers?

    Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourselves there, Christians.

    Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
    Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

    March 15, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
  19. kellsbellsfrompc

    I only disagree with number 2. I believe Christ used "didn't know everything" as a teaching method......because He did. 😉

    March 15, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
    • Doris

      Well by all means make "Him" all you want "Him" to be! 🙄

      March 15, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
    • sam stone

      kelly: wouldn't him saying he didn't know something he did make him a liar?

      March 15, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
      • kellsbellsfrompc

        Sam, perhaps he wanted the people to figure out the true reason he turned the water into wine.

        March 15, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
        • doobzz

          So he was just being coy about it?

          March 16, 2014 at 10:58 am |
  20. new-man

    Rev. James Martin,

    This was a well written piece, and I agree with all your points.
    The woman with the issue of blood who touched Jesus, He didn't know who touched Him; though He knew He was touched by someone with purpose.

    Regarding the Canaanite woman, my take is a bit different, though I would not wish to belabor the meaning of the Greek word "kynarion"- which means "little dog/puppy". Because by doing so, one misses the bigger principle or lesson.
    How many of us, even today can it be said of us... Oh wo/man, great is thy faith!

    Also, thanks for the warnings!
    Blessings!

    March 15, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
    • Bob

      The whole Jesus-sacrifice-salvation thing, the foundation of the Christian superstitions, is nonsense out of the gate. How is it that an omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers?

      Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourselves there, Christians.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
      Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      March 15, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
      • new-man

        Pretty unique being He's created you to be Bob.
        Enjoy your Saturday and many Blessings.

        March 15, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.