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 Fred Phelps, the founder of Westboro Baptist Church, has been a controversial figure in American Christianity.
March 17th, 2014
10:05 AM ET
Westboro Baptist Church founder near deathBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - Westboro Baptist Church, the Kansas congregation known for picketing funerals with anti-gay signs, called reports that its founder, Fred Phelps, is near death "speculative." "Fred Phelps has health issues," the church said in a statement Sunday, "but the idea that someone would suggest that he is near death, is not only highly speculative, but foolish considering that all such matters are the sole prerogative of God." Nathan Phelps, the estranged son of Fred Phelps, posted a Facebook message Sunday saying his father was "at the edge of death" at a hospice in Topeka, Kansas, where Westboro Baptist Church has long been a controversial presence. Nathan Phelps also said his father had been excommunicated from the church. "I'm not sure how I feel about this," he added. "Terribly ironic that his devotion to his god ends this way. Destroyed by the monster he made."
Westboro declined to say whether or not its patriarch has been excommunicated. The church's statement said that "membership issues are private" and that eight unnamed "elders" lead the Westboro congregation. A church spokesman declined to respond to follow-up questions. Fred Phelps founded Westboro Baptist Church in 1955 and molded it in his fire-and-brimstone image. Most of the small congregation are members of Phelps' extended family. Nathan Phelps is one of several relatives who left the church in recent decades. He lives in Canada, according to his Facebook page. MORE ON CNN: 'Most-hated,' anti-gay preacher once fought for civil rights Despite its "Baptist" name, Westboro is not affiliated with any larger church denomination. Most Christians criticize the congregation's harsh anti-gay rhetoric and penchant for pursuing the limelight at inappropriate moments. According to the church's website, it has picketed more than 53,000 events, ranging from Lady Gaga concerts to funerals for slain U.S. soldiers. Typically, a dozen or so family members - including small children - brandish signs that say "God Hates Fags" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers." Westboro's website keeps a running tally of "people whom God has cast into hell since you loaded this page." By the church's idiosyncratic logic, God's damnation, including the death of U.S. soldiers, is the price to pay for the country's acceptance of "sins" such as homosexuality. Despite the protests' unpopularity, the Supreme Court upheld Westboro's right to picket military funerals on free speech grounds in 2011. Several states, though, have passed laws aimed at keeping the controversial church at a distance from funerals. "I feel sad for all the hurt he's caused so many," Nathan Phelps said of his father on Sunday. "I feel sad for those who will lose the grandfather and father they loved. And I'm bitterly angry that my family is blocking the family members who left from seeing him, and saying their good-byes."
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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It couldn't happen to someone more deserving...
When is the funeral? and when are we all going to hold signs stating god is laughing, lets surround the church during the funeral.
lets do it, cant wait.
I doubt that they'll do much of a funeral for him - other than maybe some kind of ceremony down in their catacombs (church basement).
I'd be torn about picketing it anyway. Why stoop to their hideous level? Why give him (or his cult) the spotlight (that's all they want).
Soon enough, Mr. Phelps will actually find out what God thinks of him.
no, really, he won't.
That would be "nothing".
Wonder if he'll understand that he is being punished for the transgressions of gay people the way that he's claimed of others, staining the memorials of so many others who have passed. Somehow, I doubt it.
This is hilarious:
"but the idea that someone would suggest that he is near death, is not only highly speculative, but foolish considering that all such matters are the sole prerogative of God."
Yes,l it would be foolish for a medical doctor to speculate as to the health condition of a human being since only God knows! Sometimes I honestly wonder if it's possible that these people truly believe the things they say.
I hope he suffers as much as those that he targeted with his extreme hatred. Here's wishing him a long, painful and fatal illness.
I hope he suffers as much as the suffering he put his children through as well. This man is a monster in every sense. Hopefully with his death more of his children will come to their senses and escape from his horrid shadow like Mark and Nate Phelps.
This man deserves a front row seat in christianity's lower regions.
I just wish I could live long enough to see religion of all flavors disappear.
When he finally meets his maker, he's going to feel like garbage.
From the way he looks I would say he must have met him already.
Looks like I'll have a funeral to picket soon.
Well just make sure to call ahead to get the details so you'll know where to go. Since he was excommunicated, they may just bury him out behind the dumpster..
Or better yet, IN the dumpster.
As a non denominational Christian and have a real, personal relationship with Christ inside me personal, I truly hope when this man passes God has mercy on his soul and in some way can reflect back down to his hateful and misguided followers the real meanings God has for all man. I hope he can reflect back to those the real, loving, peaceful and understanding God that exists, and not the perceived hateful, vengeful, and punishing god these people in-act upon.
Christ, Himself would have never carried himself in today's time like these so called Christians, as He did not when He was on the Earth. It's unfortunate some can be severely misled and severely degrade their own personal compassion for others through the means of another influence. In my humble opinion.
Pardon my grammaticals..
"Christ, Himself would have never carried himself in today's time like these so called Christians, as He did not when He was on the Earth."
Actually, Jesus was a bigot and had anger management issues.
So if that is the case, why do I have such a humanitarian heart, compassion to those that are even of evil doing, forgiving to those who do wrongs against me, and why is my conversations on issues in my life with Christ the utmost civil and peaceful? Again, re-read my statement on the unfortunate misguided and misled.
If you have a good soul, character and humanistic civility about you, then when you accept Christ into your life and soul, it amplifies greatly.
If you are not of good character and have no compassion toward humanity, then when you try Christ out, you'll find that is overturned not only consciously but subconsciously as well.
God gives all man a choice and free will. Many fail to realize that, and He also gives you free choice to accept Him or not, the consequences and rewards in the eternal will remain either way you choose. In my opinion and personal experience.
Having compassion and forgiveness does not require a deity.
Free will? Your god says "Love me or I will hurt you real bad forever". How is that free will? Either I comply or I suffer – that's the opposite of freedom.
You do realize that omniscience means all-knowing...right? Alpha and Omega...knows the ending before the beginning. Theoretically, people who go to Hell were always destined to go there since BEFORE conception. It's ok to accept religion for what it is...your choice, but realize that the language is confusing and contradictory.
Doobz,, your free will allows you to accept or reject God . You have chosen to reject him. Free will.
lngtrmthnkr, I'm actually inclined to believe in a higher power...just have some reservations about the literature and religion. Free will taken in context with everything else espoused by Christianity, including the omniscience and omnipotence of God, really feels like every person is a pre-written program. You only think that you've made choices.
"Doobz,, your free will allows you to accept or reject God . You have chosen to reject him. Free will."
Love god or burn forever is not free will. It's extortion.
Lean6, don't you think this guy made free choices? He chose to be an ass, and he was good at it.
Pointing out the absurdity of religion being an ass? Well, guilty as charged. Hee haw!!
Doobze, No either get to actually know him or reject him, no extortion, you can be with him or without him, the cost is your happiness. He is not what you see projected here often, he is more what you would want him to be. Don't get tripped up by ancient verses that are written in a time of harshness and desperation.
Another arrogant fool who assumes that because I don't believe in his deity, that I don't know anything about his deity. I was a fundie Christian for fifty years. Services three times a week, daily bible study, weekly bible study with a tutor in Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Hebrew, Koine, taught Sunday School, etc., etc., etc.
Not a True Christian™, though, I suppose?
When you are forced to give god your love because he threatens you with harm if you don't, that is extortion. Yes, someone could reject god and go to hell, but what are the chances that they will? Probably about the same as if Vinny says, "Your Uncle Tony loves you and offers you his protection for $1000 a week. It's your choice, of course. You don't have to pay Uncle Tony the $1000 a week for his loving protection. But this will make Uncle Tony very sad, and when Uncle Tony gets sad, he breaks your legs. You don't want to make Uncle Tony sad, do you?"
To think your god's version of free will is any different is laughable.
Doobzz, actually I was speaking about the article when I posted that he was an ass, should have been more clear.sorry
lngtrmthnkr: "your free will allows you to accept or reject God . You have chosen to reject him. Free will."
I disagree. If you presume Jesus is God and that is the choice, it is a choice at the wrong end of the barrel of a gun. Will, not free will. Of course Jesus is not God since that choice itself is anathema to a loving God, just one of the many contradictions in the definition of Jesus.
Doobzz , it sounds as though somthing bad happened to you to make you mad at God . It's none of my business , but I hope in time you can find peace.
Boston, what you presume about Jesus is not the one I have come to know, I don't know what you are looking at to make your assments about him but they don't jibe with mine . He is a tender faithful, loving God that cares about all life .
lngtrmthnkr,
Love Jesus or burn for eternity.
That may not be one of your tenets, but many Christians do believe that.
Boston, I know many Christians believe that If you don't ask Jesus into your life, you are lost and will burn in hell. But I feel that the separation from him is the punishment. There is somthing missing that is basic to our happiness and God can fill that emtiness.
lngtrmthnkr,
Your interpretation would be fair (unlike the immoral burn in hell interpretation). If God was truly of infinite love, he would overlook the foolishness of a frail human mind and love them afterwards anyway. Leaders should set the example, I don't view the Christian God's description in the bible as setting a uniformly good example/standard.
Also, I don't think all people have a hole that can only be filled by a God. I accept that is true for you, but it is not right to project that to all people.
"Doobzz , it sounds as though somthing bad happened to you to make you mad at God ."
LOL, you just love assuming that you know what other people think or know. Nothing bad happened. I simply could not believe in the god of the bible anymore. I had studied and studied him for years, and all the contradictions, the violence, the inhumanity, the bigotry, and the impossibilities became more than I could ignore. It wasn't "Eureka" but more "Well, glad I've gotten that settled".
Christians love to think that I've had some "bad experience" that made me angry with god, though, because it makes them feel better. They just have to attribute my de-conversion to something other than that the biblical god is either a hateful dictator, or more likely, doesn't exist. It brings their own doubts out of their subconscious and they don't like it. So they say, "Oh, something bad must have happened and she gave up on god" or "She was never really a Christian".
What you term "mad at" is simply non belief. Are you mad at faeries?
Doobzz, did not mean to offend you , I know many people get caught up in the inconsistancies in the Bible and it bothers their sense of reason. I prefer to believe in the God in my heart, that way there is no misunderstanding.
Boston, I believe him to be fair and compassionate to everyone's shortcommngs and deficiencies . Also I guess you are right about my assumption about the need in people for God, some seem comfortable without him,though there may be different degrees of God in all people.
lngtrmthnkr,
Like I said, it is fair as you described, but it is not generous. I would expect more of a God.
"I prefer to believe in the God in my heart, that way there is no misunderstanding."
That is such a crock of crap. It sounds nice and allows you to ignore the stuff that just doesn't add up. If there was a way to believe with no misunderstanding, there wouldn't be so many versions of Christianity, not to mention all the other gods and religions that people also think are the one true religion.
There are consequences and rewards in the eternal just as there are in the mortal as you well know. I live by one verse and one verse alone, John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, and that "whosoever" believes in Him, shall not perish, but have ever lasting life."
Yes, you have a free choice. You have a free choice to murder someone or not. You have a free choice to help someone or hurt someone, but there will be consequences and rewards in all things you do whether by man on earth or by God in eternal.
For me, if I'm right then I have nothing to loose, but if I'm wrong then I have everything to loose once my soul leaves my shell. So for me, why chance it? I only will live around 70-80 years, and the spirit is a eternal energy that will never dissipate. So, for me I choose to believe, and the experience I feel and see in me, is the result of that acceptance. Being a Christian is about a personal relationship with Christ, not enforcing man written doctrines. You live the experience, and it's with you when you die.
Phelps, lived by man written and manipulated doctrines that were not of Christ nor God the Father. He emphasized specific parts of the Bible that are not nor were meant to be of today's time and humanistic development in mankind. God knows how intelligent man is as He created it. So He knows how man was intelligent in those days compared to today. I believe that.
Faith and Religion is not complicated. Man causes the complications of it, and a true Christian knows the difference from a personal relationship.
Faith is meant to be personal, because it's your individual spirit and soul that benefits from Him, not a group. The Church is the people and a place to give back the thankfulness as a group and not a place to spread hate or misguided written words. There will be no Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ on the throne, nor will all their different doctrines rule, which is why I'm non denominational and depend solely on my personal relationship.
Again, In my opinion. Have a blessed one.
There is no evidence that anything happens once you die but decomposition. Invoking Pascal's Wager doesn't help your cause.
Free will is not free if there is only one choice, love god or burn.
@doobz – But, free will started with, "Stay with me and live in paradise forever." We chose to sin, which lead to death entering the world, but God gave us another chance via Jesus Christ. You characterization of God isn't correct. He's pursued man from the beginning. We're the ones running from Him.
Jason,
"For me, if I'm right then I have nothing to loose, but if I'm wrong then I have everything to loose once my soul leaves my shell. So for me, why chance it?"
This is another tired repeti.tion of Pascal's Wager - thoroughly refuted since the 17th century when it was first proposed.
- What if the real "God" is Allah, or Vishnu, or Zeus, or Quetzalcoatl, or any of the other of thousands which have been dreamed up over the centuries? Some of them are very jealous and vengeful and will relegate you to nasty places for not worshiping them. You'd better cover your butt by believing in ALL of them and fulfill their wishes and demands.
- What if the real "God" prefers those who use logic and reason and punishes you as a silly sycophant?
- What if the real "God" detests those who believe something just to cover their butts in eternity?
Well you better get busy practicing all religions and associated gods............. just in case.
Doob, that's two choices. And no one goes to God because they want to escape fire. They rather are looking for fulfillment and love, as well as purpose and peace.
" They rather are looking for fulfillment and love, as well as purpose and peace."
I have all of that without any deities.
@otoh2,
By having the very real relationship I spoke of, I already know my God and know from his answers about the others. The living God of all Gods is called by different names among other Faiths, and I believe God very well knows this. However, the character, demeanor and integrity of God is misleading by mortal man who writes such doctrines and extensions of the true God, that others unfortunately rely upon instead of the physical inner spirit within themselves. That is why people consider religion or Faith so complicated, when it's very simple and easy as the one God made it for us.
I don't have paranoia in being wrong because of my personal walk with Christ, and I'm very comfortable and at peace with that. That comfort and inner peace I find with Him is all I need to live out my roughly 80 years on this earth. For me, that's all I need, and I leave the eternal up to Him once I cross over.
God is not a statue or just a creation in a book, He is very much alive and well. When you are alone, quiet and completely isolated from outside distractions, you can easily find Him. For ones not use to having Him in their lives, it can be subconsciously skeptical for them because there is a evil essence that dwells around us trying to conflict us, but in good conscious and emotions, it becomes very easy to know which is which. In my opinion.
Have a good one.
Jason
Waht a loaad of presumption. Wehn you are alone and it's quiet, you imagine you feel god. It just might be satan fooling you ( he's a tricky one) or your mind is clearer due to less distractions, or many other things, but you claim god, because you know it is. Ridiculous...you actually have no idea, but want it to be god, so you proclaim it to be so.
You also do not have a personal relationship with god. Can you show some proof that it is in fact not only a god, but YOUR specific idea of what god is?
Reading your post just re-affirms to me the self delusional thinking that goes with the baseless propoganda that is the bible.
I hope you join the rest of us in reality.
"And no one goes to God because they want to escape fire. They rather are looking for fulfillment and love, as well as purpose and peace."
Good grief, you really are arrogant. What makes you think you know why people convert to any religion?
If that was true, there would be no need to tell people about how sinful and deepicable they are, how they need to be "saved" and how they can be "saved" by believing there was a human sacrifice made on their behalf a long time ago. There would be no need to discuss their eventual place of residence in the supposed afterlife.
Please prove that. Use REAL sources. Sorry, whirledNUTSdaily and faux shnews don't count as real news sources.
"I have a deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ."
Do you gag as much as I do at hearing this pious crap?
I've known my sister for over 6 decades. Altho I live in Madison, WI, and she lives in Denver, CO, so we only see each other every couple of years, I can tell you:
• how tall she is.
• what color her eyes are.
• what color and how curly her hair is.
• the different kinds of prescription drugs she takes, and what for.
• which parts of her have been operated on.
• which colleges she attended.
• what jobs she's held.
• what cities she's lived in.
• what her hobbies are.
• the names and breeds of the various dogs and cats she's had thru the years.
• her favorite sports teams, and which one she has season tickets for.
• the TV programs she watches regularly.
• that it's her on the phone just from the sound of her voice.
• her att¡tude toward eating meat.
• whom she voted for in the last presidential election.
• what kind of medical care she wants in case of a terminal illness.
• her favorite color.
• and about 50 other things.
Now that's a personal relationship. Could any of you Bible-thumpers manage even half a dozen comparable answers about your "deep, personal friend" Jesus? And, even assuming your overwrot imagination could in fact gin up a few stabs at them, what are chances that they'd agree with any other equally deluded True Believer? OTOH, you could ask any of my sister's other good friends about the above characteristics, and they'd give you the exact same answers I would. That's because my sister, unlike your Jesus, is real — a 3-dimensional, flesh-and-blood, living, breathing, real-world human being, with a life, preferences, substance, and history.
So, Mr. or Ms. True Believer, let's say you're walking across library mall one day, you see your good buddy Jesus in a bunch of folks ahead of you, and you holler "Hey, J, dude, wait up!". Would he?
Let's not kid ourselves. This would never even happen because there's no way you'd be able to pick Jesus out of a crowd. Heck, you couldn't pick him out of a 1-person lineup. You wouldn't know him if he walked up to you on the street and handed you his business card. (In fact, it would tickle me pink to see your reaction if somebody actually did exactly that.)
So we both know exactly what your claim to have a "deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ" is. It's bullsh¡t. You know it's bullsh¡t. Everybody else knows it's bullsh¡t. The only reason you keep on repeating this bullsh¡t is because it's the slogan of the club that some con artist or charlatan has suckered you into believing you really want to be a member of. All you have to do is keep repeating the magic bullsh¡t phrase "I have a deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ" and you can keep going to the club meetings. (Provided you keep paying the dues, too; let's not forget what's really important here.)
But don't think that repeating that phrase is going to win you anything but contempt or possibly some degree of pity from anyone with a functioning brain. All you're really demonstrating is that you don't know diddly about real relationships or the way the real world really works. You are, in short, a pathetic dupe. And full of bullsh¡t, to boot.
There is a difference in the living relationship of tangible, mortal, human beings, and the spiritual relationship of a inner, tangible spirit. Again as I have stated, it's in my personal life and walk with Christ, and I'm solely responsible for my soul and my relationship with Him.
You and your sister are responsible for yours, and again God give you a simple choice that only you can make. It's unfortunate as I do realize in my adult life, that some will never experience that greatness of Faith nor comprehend it in others. When you are alone, in silence and completely by yourself, is where you will find Him.
I can't do it for you, but I can pray one day you will before you leave that shell of a body. If not, then that's just sadness for me that someone has to go through that. Either way, it's still your and only your choice. Bash me all you want, as it does no good nor does it affect my character, integrity or treatment towards others.
Have a good one.
You ever see Kung-Fu Panda? How at the end he and the bad guy are both after the mystical dragon scroll that has the big secret to all Kung-Fu, but when they open it and read it it's blank? Then the hero realizes that the scroll or whatever is just a fetish, and the real power and answer has been inside him the whole time?
That is pretty much the same thing with you and your god. All the calm, inner peace, you being a nice guy – it was in you the whole time. The god idea is just a focus to help you channel it.
A relationship with your IMAGINATION. That's it... nothing more...
That's not a "real relationship"
The fact that Phelps is still alive is proof enough that there is no god.
Reader, there is a difference between being alive and being a tortured soul. I believe he is in his own little hell that he created himself.
Phelps – another example of how religion and the worship of god(s) is a filthy perverted disease of the mind
Your statement has no grounding. Don't be ignorant.
Actually, it does. Fred Phelps uses the bible to spread hatred and bigotry.
Lew, another instance where religion and God are perverted by diseased minds. well said.
which god?
Lew , your God.
longterm, You'd need to provide evidence that there is a god and that is the one you believe in before you can make statements like that. Until then it is just your opinion.
YES!
Maybe a Christian gay dead soldier ghost gave Phelps the AIDS gene !!!
"Thank God for Dead Phelps" !!!
There is no amount of pain and punishment that would fit the level of crimes against humanity that this man has committed! Death is simply too good for him. At least his ugly voice and face will be removed from the news, finally! Burn in hell you sick and demented monster!
Ya reap what ya sow.
Oh but were hell a real place.
He certainly qualifies.
This is our chance to be bigger, better people. It it so easy to repay his debt with revenge. However, if we show compassion, forgiveness, and understanding we will not carry the burden anymore and we can also be beacons of tolerance.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Unknown (often misattributed to Edmund Burke)
Forgiving is not doing "nothing."
All across the country, thousands of family members of deceased service members, celebrities and other unfortunate targets of this ranting family are buying their tickets and licking their chops at their chance to give these people a taste of their own medicine.
"Thank God for Dead Fred" is my guess at the most popular poster.
Can I protest at his funeral??????!!!!!!!!
Funny!
Awesome! Is he suffering? Is it painful? I can just imagine his bubbly labored breathing that one would have after 70 years of smoking unfiltered cigarettes...
One hopes that he fights and fights to his bitter, last painful breath... and that his children of the corn follow close behind.
Thank gawd.