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March 20th, 2014
11:14 AM ET

Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God?

Opinion by Leslie A. Wickman, special to CNN

(CNN) The remarkable discovery, announced this week, of ripples in the space-time fabric of the universe rocked the world of science - and the world of religion.

Touted as evidence for inflation (a faster-than-the-speed-of-light expansion of our universe), the new discovery of traces of gravity waves affirms scientific concepts in the fields of cosmology, general relativity, and particle physics.

The new discovery also has significant implications for the Judeo-Christian worldview, offering strong support for biblical beliefs.

Here's how.

The prevalent theory of cosmic origins prior to the Big Bang theory was the “Steady State,” which argued that the universe has always existed, without a beginning that necessitated a cause.

However, this new evidence strongly suggests that there was a beginning to our universe.

If the universe did indeed have a beginning, by the simple logic of cause and effect, there had to be an agent – separate and apart from the effect – that caused it.

That sounds a lot like Genesis 1:1 to me: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.”

So this latest discovery is good news for us believers, as it adds scientific support to the idea that the universe was caused – or created – by something or someone outside it and not dependent on it.

MORE ON CNN: Big Bang breakthrough announced; gravitational waves detected

Atheist-turned-agnostic astronomer Fred Hoyle, who coined the term “Big Bang,” famously stated, “A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics."

As Hoyle saw it, the Big Bang was not a chaotic explosion, but rather a very highly ordered event – one that could not have occurred by random chance.

We also need to remember that God reveals himself both through scripture and creation. The challenge is in seeing how they fit together. A better understanding of each can inform our understanding of the other.

It’s not just about cracking open the Bible and reading whatever we find there from a 21st-century American perspective. We have to study the context, the culture, the genre, the authorship and the original audience to understand the intent.

The creation message in Genesis tells us that God created a special place for humans to live and thrive and be in communion with him; that God wants a relationship with us, and makes provisions for us to have fellowship with him, even after we turn away from him.

So, we know that Genesis was never intended to be a detailed scientific handbook, describing how God created the universe. It imparts a theological, not a scientific, message.

(Imagine how confusing messages about gravity waves and dark matter might be to ancient Hebrew readers.)

As a modern believer and a scientist, when I look up at the sky on a clear starry night, I am reminded that “the heavens declare the glory of God” (Psalm 19:1). I am in awe of the complexity of the physical world, and how all of its pieces fit together so perfectly and synergistically.

In the Old Testament book of Jeremiah, the writer tells us that God “established (his) covenant with day and night, and with the fixed laws of heaven and earth.”

These physical laws established by God to govern interactions between matter and energy result in a finely tuned universe that provides the ideal conditions for life on our planet.

As we observe the complexity of the cosmos, from subatomic particles to dark matter and dark energy, we quickly conclude that there must be a more satisfying explanation than random chance. Properly practiced, science can be an act of worship in looking at God’s revelation of himself in nature.

If God is truly the creator, then he will reveal himself through what he’s created, and science is a tool we can use to uncover those wonders.

Leslie Wickman is director of the Center for Research in Science at Azusa Pacific University. Wickman has also been an engineer for Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space, where she worked on NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and International Space Station programs. The views expressed in this column belong to Wickman. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Culture & Science • Faith • Opinion • Science

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soundoff (4,918 Responses)
  1. brefazio

    the religion you adopt is determined by where you live, not the rationality/truth of the religion itself. If you live in India you will probably be a Hindu; the Middle East probably a Muslim; Asia either a Hinduist or Buddhist, the U.S. you will probably be a Christian. Religion is a matter of geography and a matter of the family you are born into. Hence, you did not choose your religion, it was chosen for you!
    One of the greatest tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion. Now people assume morality and religion have a necessary connection. But the basis for morality is actually very simple and doesn't require religion at all.
    Perfect example.... bible says slavery is good and gay is bad. Neither of those statements is morally correct.

    March 22, 2014 at 12:24 pm |
    • bostontola

      Yup.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
    • ugetthefacts

      it is amazing how religions steal the good works and practices of others and claims it as their own. Even jesus said nothing different than what people have said for ages. Sadly jesus was bipolar since on one hand he would tell the people the one without sin should pick up the first stone, yet told people to punish their children. As if they were never a child who once disrespected their parent.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
    • brefazio

      Exactly! My take is the bible is immoral.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
  2. denkidemuerto

    do you have to pay to post seems.

    March 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
    • Doris

      probably the word filter preventing your post – you have to separate certain pattern sequences that are part of certain words.
      like const-itution for instance or va-gue or magna c-um laude. (it doesn't like t-it, v-ag, c-um, etc.) there is a list...

      March 22, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
    • otoh2

      If your posts are not showing up you might be running into the word filter.

      Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN Belief Blog/WordPress automatic filter:
      Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
      You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters or some html tricks to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
      -
      ar-se.....as in ar-senic, coa.rse, etc.
      Ch-ardonnay
      co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
      co-on.....as in racc-oon, coc-oon, etc.
      crac-ker…
      cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
      ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
      ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, drift-wood, etc.
      ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, sopho-more, etc.
      ho-oters…as in sho-oters
      ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
      inf-orms us…
      hu-mp… as in th-ump, th-umper, th-umping
      jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
      ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
      koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
      ni-gra…as in deni-grate
      nip-ple
      o-rgy….as in po-rgy, zo-rgy, etc.
      pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
      p-oon… as in sp-oon, lamp-oon, harp-oon
      p-orn… as in p-ornography
      pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
      que-er
      ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
      se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
      sl-ut
      sm-ut…..as in transm-utation
      sn-atch
      sp-ank
      sp-ic.....as in desp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
      sp-ook… as in sp-ooky, sp-ooked
      strip-per
      ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, t-itle, ent-ity, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, salt-water, etc.
      va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
      who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
      wt-f....also!!!!!!!
      x-xx…
      There's another phrase that someone found, "wo-nderful us" (have no idea what sets that one off).

      There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this list is complete.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
  3. ugetthefacts

    because I'm too lazy and unwilling to accept discovery and science, god created everything. He even created your own free will which he already knows the choices you will make. Hence, god did it all. You must kneel down to him, even though you never meet him before. Religions and dictators are so similar. They love to control, make up stories and use fear to make you believe their stories.

    In the end, the god believers are an insult to the intelligence their god supposedly gave them. Yes, both christian and muslims.

    March 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
    • alfonse2014

      i'll give you credit for having the courage to include muslims in your denoucement of religion.
      Most libs don't have the balls to do that. Hypocrisy and cowardice is not a noble combination.
      .
      However, you do know that dictators are almost without exception, secular.
      Ah yes, let's review the wonderful world that SECULAR leaders have brought us to further their SECULAR paradises
      Stalin.....20 million killed
      Mao........20 million killed
      Pol Pot...several million kiiiled
      IDI.........serveral million killed

      Yes what a wonderful world secularism provides

      March 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
      • ugetthefacts

        however, i'm a conservative. I can't wait until we dump the religious lunatics in our party.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
      • Doris

        alfie loves to attempt to define a world view today by past totalitarian dictators in non-democracies. But what about what we have going on today? Well we have evangelists traveling to Africa to incite violence, calling for the deaths of some people in those countries.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
      • whippstippler7

        Alf – you forgot Hitler. Good ol' Catholic Hitler. Remember him?

        March 22, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
      • doobzz

        Come back when you understand the difference between secularism and totalitarianism.

        March 22, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
      • terryvas

        Good examples of non-religious mass murderers. The religious mass murderer list is way longer than that, ant its members living with no consequences right now.

        March 22, 2014 at 9:35 pm |
  4. gadlaw2012

    Well, when you have nothing to say and no actual ammunition to push forward your position I guess the only thing to do is to attack and that's what the religious folks here are doing. You just can't escape your caveman ignorance that it has to be a magical man in the sky to explain what hasn't been explained yet. You grasp onto science tightly and say 'see here this proves my point!' when it does nothing of the kind. Your creation myth is a myth. It's just ridiculous, everything you argue, everything you say and hopefully, hopefully some day there will be a cure for such stupidity.

    March 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
    • ugetthefacts

      the fears they have are mind altering. They are unable to open their minds and search for other possibilities. Some may cll it lazy, others call it the effects of childhood brainwashing. They call their children 'sinners', reducing them. They then scare the child with fears of a place where they will get painful third degree burns with scary monsters that will eat them. No different than what terrorist do to children to get them to join.

      We need to understand this in order to put up with them.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
    • alfonse2014

      The only problem with your ittle hateful high school rant is that this is an article written by a Scientist who is simply making further extrapolations.
      The only attacks i see are from lesser educated, intellectually stunted, frustrated and hateful Atheists.
      ...
      My god, did some Nun smack you when you were young. Poor little atheists want everyone to think as narrowmindedly as they do. Wah, wah, WE KNOW EVERYTHING and people aren't listiening to us.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
      • Doris

        No one is saying they know everything so go find out what kind of chill-pill trolls are supposed to be subscribed and take it.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:32 pm |
        • Doris

          asap

          March 22, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
      • Doris

        "Scientist who is simply making further extrapolations."

        And there is no need to make further extrapolations – how does this latest news change the alleged situations from big bang till now differently than what the BBT or BVG suggest? I'm sure as has been the case, the apologists will leave out key information when they extract to make their case for their favorite deity.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
      • joey3467

        She claims to be a scientist but works for an organization that ignores any science that doesn't agree with the Bible, when she should be followinf the evidence where ever it leads and if it shows the Bible to be wrong then so be it.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
  5. Vic

    ♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰

    Recap:

    The significance of this discovery —existence of Gravitational Waves— in relation to God is that it confirms amongst other evidence that the universe had a "beginning" AND that the universe "expanded at a rate faster than the speed of light right at the Big Bang."

    That implies that only a "Supernatural Power" can do that, hence the "Spoken Word," the "Breath" of God.

    This discovery speaks volumes of the Creation Ex Nihilo.

    In other words, with this discovery of Gravitational Waves for the first time in history, which Albert Einstein theorized about back in 1916, it is a clear indication that the universe had a beginning and expanded at a rate faster than the speed of light, right at that beginning, hence Creation Ex Nihilo.

    That kind of Big Bang makes sense.

    Early on:
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/comment-page-2/#comment-2968150

    March 22, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
    • Doris

      Vic: "hence Creation"

      To clarify, Vic, what you are really referring to is the creation of this universe in the form that we are able to understand, because that newer form since the bang is what we've only been able to observe. As has been pointed out many times before (per nepawoods in the OP), it is unknown what the form was before the bang, and any attempt thus far to describe such, including those involving some deity, is pure speculation mixed with hope; hope to answer other questions, some of which are right before our very eyes; questions about purpose, consciousness and afterlife..

      March 22, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
    • ausphor

      Vic
      As Rep. Darrell Issa says over and over again "you are ent!tled to your own opinion but not your own facts."

      March 22, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
    • ugetthefacts

      the universe had a beginning,, and likely many other universes as well. In fact it's more likely tat there are an infinite number of universes. And most likely that we haven't evolved enough to understand it all. So let's create a god, the easy and simpleton explanation.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
      • Vic

        Infinite number of universes is impossible since matter is finite, hence this universe is finite, and that 'infinite regression' is impossible. Furthermore, the Multiverse Hypothesis miserably fails the Occam's razor principle.

        http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/comment-page-5/#comment-2969113

        March 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
        • Doris

          "Infinite number of universes is impossible since matter is finite"

          That doesn't make sense, Vic. Show how b restricts a in your statement there.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:21 pm |
        • ausphor

          Vic
          OK, prove me wrong, you don't even have your own opinion but one taken from an apologist website.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
        • ugetthefacts

          this universe exists, to deny other ones exists is no different than denying other galaxies exist.

          Your thinking of finite is a clear example of your limited thinking ability.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
        • Vic

          All physical matter is scientifically proven to be finite, hence not infinite, non-eternal, and had a beginning. Simple math.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:25 pm |
        • Vic

          Uh..conflation.

          This not about denying the existence of other universes, this stating that matter cannot be infinite/eternal. Also, even if other universes exist, that sure still logically requires "First Cause."

          March 22, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
        • Vic

          "This is not about .."

          March 22, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
        • ugetthefacts

          you d know matter and energy are the same but in different states, right?

          March 22, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
        • Vic

          Energy is a thermodynamic entity that is in a certain form and is quantifiable, hence physical and finite; it has the ability to change from one form to another while being conserved.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
        • Vic

          "God is Metaphysical..."

          March 22, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • Doris

          Vic: "God is Metaphysical..."

          lol – well ok. and we in the real physics dept will give you folks over in the "spooky physics" dept a call if we need some assistance.............................................

          March 22, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • sam stone

          God is cultural

          March 22, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
    • likedoohan

      Then who created God?

      March 22, 2014 at 12:13 pm |
      • Vic

        Gos is Metaphysical, Eternal in Generation, Self-Existent, UNCAUSED, and outside the beginning, time and realm of this existence and not subject to it.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:21 pm |
        • ugetthefacts

          or otherwise stated,, it's your latest interpretation.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:24 pm |
        • joey3467

          That is just what you say because you know there is no evidence of god so you concot some lame story about him being undetectable. The Christian god, however, claims to inteact with humans and thus should be detectable in some way.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
        • the0g0to0the0t

          Says who?

          That's your definition of god, and many may share it with you, but it's only as good as it's source.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
        • Vic

          "God is Metaphysical... "

          March 22, 2014 at 12:47 pm |
        • whippstippler7

          @ Vic: Wasn't that the t-itle of a famous song sung by Olivia Newton Jones' Philosophy Professor: Let's Get meta-Physical, Physical!

          March 22, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
        • terryvas

          Which one of the many Gods

          March 22, 2014 at 9:44 pm |
    • jkflipflop

      What a load of crap. The weak minded always try to fall back on religion when they simply can't understand the meaning of things. Thousands of years ago people were sure that the Gods were riding chariots through the sky – you were a cretinous non-believing heathen to think otherwise. Now what you do think of those people? That's exactly what people will think of this hot garbage in another 1000 years.

      March 23, 2014 at 12:47 pm |
  6. greatbuddy

    Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 30:
    أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

    Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
    (English Translation)
    This was mentioned in the Quran 1500 years before the big bang theory.

    March 22, 2014 at 11:46 am |
    • whippstippler7

      And???

      March 22, 2014 at 11:50 am |
      • greatbuddy

        So? How would a person living in a desert know these things without actually someone telling him this?!!! And who is that someone?!!! No one at that time knew anything about big bang theory?!! The actual translation of the arabic word رتقا is it was like a fabric that got torn apart?!!! Isn't that big bang?!! And the other part that was proven too is that everything alive needs water to live?!!! How did they know that then?!!! Islam and science support each other and science only getting to prove things now which was mentioned 1500 years ago in the Quran!!! This wasn't a human who wrote this book!!! Wake up and think with your brain. Its like 1+1=2 ... very obvious.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:58 am |
        • Doris

          "How would a person living in a desert know these things without actually someone telling him this?!!!"

          Because, as with Christianity, you're interpretation of what someone else said or wrote is what you want it to be.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • whippstippler7

          A guy 1500 years ago has a jar of water. Some dirt gets into it, and it swirls around, forming a solution of muddy water. It looks ho-mogeneous. He sets the jar aside. Later, the dirt settles to the bottom, and he sees that what was one form has now been divided into two – earth and water. He (or she – I don't know) is curious, and starts thinking, gee, I wonder if the earth is like the dirt is this jar, and the sky and the stars are like the water. He tells someone, who tells someone, who eventually incorporates that thought into a story that ultimately makes its way into the Quran.

          Likely? Possible? Probable?

          In no way can that verse be taken as proof of a god. There are far, far too many other more likely, more rational explanations.

          Here's another one: some guy 1500 years ago had a weird dream, and that dream made it into the Quran.

          Here's another one: An entirely natural wormhole opened in the space-time continuum, and a guy from the present got sent into the past, and told someone about the Big bang theory, and that story made it into the Quran.

          All possible explanations.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
        • joey3467

          Pretty simple they didn't know it and you have just decided it descrbes the big bang in a desperate attempt ro reconcile the two.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:14 pm |
        • otoh2

          A fabric? Seersuc-ker?

          Water (in varying amounts) is necessary for living things, but they are not 'made from' water. Lifeforms are carbon-based.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      @greatbuddy,
      I don't see how this is viewed as the big bang, nor how one could possibly think "every living thing" was made from water. Actually, no living thing was made from water.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
      • greatbuddy

        That jar and mud doesn't make sense for someone who created once to be the biggest empire on earth!! In regards of water and carbon, you need water for every living organism. They even proved not too long ago that bacteria needs water. No wonder they are looking for traces of water all over the universe which supports an existence of life.
        As I said before, we have 2 options here, god existence or non existence, if god doesn't exist then it won't matter, but if he exists then your screwed!!

        March 22, 2014 at 12:27 pm |
        • joey3467

          We would both be in trouble if I worship no god and you are worshipping the wrong god. It is not your god or no god, it could be any god humans ever came up with so you better worsip them all just to be safe.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
        • joey3467

          And you don't think humans 1500 years ago could realize that without water things would die?

          March 22, 2014 at 12:35 pm |
        • otoh2

          greatbuddy,

          Life forms (on Earth, at least) are not **made from** water. You have pointed out one of the scientific errors in your old book - there are many, as well as purported moments of: "Aw, Gee, how'd he know that?" regarding facts that were already known in the 7th century.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:39 pm |
        • greatbuddy

          Existence of life was created from water (among other material) so water is an essential element of life... Adam was created from mud (has water), so water is one of the elements to create life and without it no life will be present.
          Its a start to believe in god then look for the right one, one wholly book that was never changed or altered and still exists the way it did 1500 years ago is Quran.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
        • joey3467

          Sorry I prefer amethod that admits when it is wrong. Sine the koran is clearly wrong about a great many things and you won't admit it it and update the book I wpuld consdier that to be a reason to ignore anything it has to say.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • otoh2

          greatbuddy,
          "book that was never changed or altered and still exists the way it did 1500 years ago is Quran."

          We have ancient cuneiform, hieroglyphics and other inscriptions which were ***cast in stone*** and have not changed a bit either. They even had a few things correct about science... as well as a lot of fantasies and superst.itions - just like your book.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
        • otoh2

          * and those ancient inscriptions are thousands of years older than your book.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
        • greatbuddy

          Joey, there is no mistakes and it doesn't contradict science like other altered holly books do. You choose to ignore it because you do not have enough knowledge and just because you think its wrong.... just because. Intelligent people do not do that.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
        • joey3467

          You are as dumb as a bag of rocks if you think the koran has nothing wrong in it. Have you even read it?

          March 22, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
      • MidwestKen

        @greatbuddy,
        1) earth and the "heaven" are, and are made of the same stuff. What splitting happened?
        2) no living was made "from water". With water , sure, but also with carbon hydrogen and nitrogen, all necessary H and O.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
        • greatbuddy

          You call it with or from, you decipher it the way you like, the point that was proven is that no water = no life. Was just recently proven while quran talked about it 1500 years ago. Wake up and do not ignore facts just because you decide not to open up your mind and think with your head.

          March 22, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
        • otoh2

          greatbuddy,

          You are desperately and squirmingly trying to make your old book fit science. I'll bet if String Theory is ever proven to have some reality to it you will say, "Aha, Quran says "fabric" - yeah, "fabric" has strings. See, the prophet was right!".

          March 22, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @ geatbuddy,
          You thiink I'm ignoring facts?

          What about verse 32,a mere 2 verses later, "And we made the sky a protected ceiling..." (other translations "roof" "canopy")

          March 22, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • joey3467

          I am prtty sure that every single animal that has ever lived on Earth quickly realized that without water it would die. You would have to be suffering from some sort of brain damage to be human and not realize this.

          March 22, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
  7. alfonse2014

    It's hilarious listening to a bunch of bitter hateful Atheist claim ALL KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING.
    Yeah, the Sheldons of the scientifice community will provide us with ALL the answers of existence. And if the scientific method (that only applies to our restritive physical realm) can not prove something, well then, it just doesn't exist. We are masters not obly of our own realm,, but also of ALL that may possibly exist.
    ....You guys are like watching the monkeys at the zoo.

    March 22, 2014 at 11:43 am |
    • whippstippler7

      Obviously, Alfonse, you appear unwilling to respond to posts, as set out below. You simply run away, because you have no answers.

      Here's your chance to show us dumb, bitter atheists just how wrong we are. Please, set out your best case for the existence of a god. Any god. Your god, someone else's god. It appears that you believe in a god. Convince us poor, unenlightened fools to join the flock.

      We're waiting.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:46 am |
      • alfonse2014

        Wow, talking to you is like trying to talk to a freakin toad.
        ...
        YOU are the ones claiming to know ALL THINGS.
        YOU are the one who claim to know that god can't possibly exist.
        ...
        You are the ones who refuse to answer the question of
        "HOW DID YOU COME ABOUT TO HAVE THIS ALL KNOWING POWER?
        .
        Please enlighten us, your assholiness,

        What enables YOU to KNOW everything. IS it your high school diplomma?
        .....

        March 22, 2014 at 12:13 pm |
        • Doris

          alfie the troll: "YOU are the ones claiming to know ALL THINGS.
          YOU are the one who claim to know that god can't possibly exist."

          Prove it! Prove people are claiming those things.

          Smear attempts via misrepresentation. It's old as the hills.....

          March 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
        • whippstippler7

          Oh! There you are! Hi, Alfie!
          Now, listen closely, okay?

          If you're the one claiming that a god exists, it's up to you to establish that claim is true and believable. I suspect that all of the atheists on this board are willing and able to believe in a god, if someone provides sufficient reliable, cogent, credible evidence.

          Do you have any such evidence? Do you have any reason or rationale as to why we should believe your claim that a god exists?

          If you do, please present it.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
    • Akira

      You're certainly adept at flinging poo, so apparently you share a lot with the monkeys you seem to obsessively watch.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:58 am |
    • Doris

      This appears to be the blog idiot Salero under a new moniker...

      March 22, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
    • whippstippler7

      Alfonse! Where aaarrreeeee you? Come out and play!

      You're really, really letting your side down there, buddy boy. Sad, but entirely expected.

      Any other believers out there ready to take up the challenge the Alfonse ran from?

      March 22, 2014 at 12:15 pm |
    • noheavononearth

      excellent analogy......monkeys in a zoo.
      You are correct. Because evolutionary biology has proven that we in fact evolved from monkey's, you are actually supporting the contention that Science, not creationism concocted by man, is correct. There are SO many holes in your ridiculous contentions, religion is a moving target with the continuous advent of science moving us forward whereas you and your followers continually move the goal posts.
      The sun revolves around the earth.....NO WAIT great papal of the Christian world, the earth revolves around the sun
      The earth is flat....NO WAIT, it is a sphere
      We were created 6000 years ago..NO WAIT, there is fossil evidence that we are much much older and the earth is billions of years old

      I may be a monkey in a zoo, but you are a "robot" (see my sarcasm...robot's are a result of scientific ingenuity and scientific evolution), as you are a follower who has no objectivity. Go back to your Christian church, but be very careful that the children are not left alone with a priest. That would be a male priest who cannot be trusted alone with a child. You could choose a female priest....no but wait, no allowed as although women have evolved in our modern world, they have not being allowed to do so in your house of god.
      Believe what you wish to believe. You are irrational and without objectivity. Go back to your fantasy world and indoctrinate those around you. I call it brainwashing and you call it religion.....

      March 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
    • doobzz

      "It's hilarious listening to a bunch of bitter hateful Atheist claim ALL KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING."

      Where did you read anything like that?

      March 22, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
  8. ugetthefacts

    I think george carlin should have added to his list of things that make no sense.. ie plastic glass and add christian science..

    March 22, 2014 at 11:23 am |
    • Dalahäst

      It is her opinion. Her philosophy.

      Like, Richard Dawkins, who is a scientist, wrote a book called "The God Delusion". But nobody is claiming it is a science book (I hope). It is a philosophy book.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:42 am |
      • doobzz

        Thank you, Dala, for pointing out once again that both religious and non religious people have opinions.

        March 22, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
  9. jspring2932

    What if the Big Bang was preceded by a Big Crunch ? What If there are an infinite number of universes ? What if... ? People should show a little more humility and admit that we are just limited and cannot understand what transcend us.
    As for religions ? A pure human invention used to dominate and kill others that don't think or believe like us.

    March 22, 2014 at 11:21 am |
    • Vic

      The funny thing about infinite universes is that it is impossible since matter is finite, hence this universe is finite, and that infinite regression is impossible. Furthermore, the Multiverse Hypothesis miserably fails the Occam's razor principle.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:53 am |
      • whippstippler7

        @ Vic – how do you KNOW that matter is finite?

        And Occam's razor is simply a principle, not a black and white law. Sometimes the simplest explanation is NOT the correct one.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:57 am |
      • In Santa We Trust

        so does the god hypothesis.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
      • the0g0to0the0t

        There is finite matter within OUR universe. There's nothing to prevent there being more matter in a different universe.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
  10. thenewerguest

    How to we make the enormous step of using this finding to provide proof of the judeochristian god? If you're under (what is most likely) a false assumption to begin with, attempting to use real, tangible scientific proof to back up your false assumption doesn't make that assumption any more true.

    March 22, 2014 at 11:19 am |
  11. timelesswheelman

    Over 1400 years ago The Holy Quran was revealed and compiled.
    Surah (chapter) 21 Ayat (verse) 30 of The Holy Quran says:

    "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

    Science just keeps proving the existence of Allah(God). Want more? http://www.miraclesofthequran.com

    March 22, 2014 at 11:10 am |
    • whippstippler7

      Science proves the existence of God? Really? How so? And which god?

      It's nice so see that Muslims are as deluded as Christians.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:12 am |
      • timelesswheelman

        The verse I quoted describes "The Big Bang Theory". The verse comes from a 1400 year old book revealed to The Prophet Mohammed by Allah(God) through the Angel Gabriel. The book is The Holy Quran.

        Science is 1400 years late with this "discovery". Muslims have known about the "Big Bang Theory" for 1400 years.

        I guess you believe Columbus discovered America, or maybe you believe Amerigo Vespucci did. If you know better than that then maybe you might be intelligent enough to read The Holy Quran.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:24 am |
        • whippstippler7

          That verse describes the Big Bang Theory??? No it doesn't !

          March 22, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • Akira

          Interpretation and condescension with an insult to intelligence. Shaken, not stirred.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:41 am |
        • Doris

          "The verse comes from a [x] year old book revealed to The Prophet [y] by "

          Gee – where have I heard this before (and since – hello Mormons!)....

          March 22, 2014 at 11:47 am |
        • islamistheanswer

          The difference stated once and again – all here are not up to taking the challenge and really add meaningful reflections to your stated claims. Unless you establish that you know something specific in the Quran that contradicts your LOGIC and way of thinking (challenges established truths and scientific evidences), I am puzzled why you are not Muslims yet? (Sarcastic you may think, but I am serious. Majority here keep referring to science. You are told that the Quran is full of scientific evidences but you decide to ignore that altogether and continue to say that it is human writings, how is it different from other claims , etc.. Read it, challenge your self and come back with lucid arguments to prove your CLAIMS.

          Posted the following earlier: I urge you to go back through my comments in which I established the following (comments in this article and in another, Five things you didn't know about Jesus):
          1. The Quran is a book of 600 Pages that has no contradictions whatsoever. The Quran challenge that I presented was revealed 1400 years ago and humanity is yet to find contradictions within it (unlike other scriptures).
          2. The Quran is continually revealing of miracles. Unlike other books that seem to be outdated (according to some commentators on this forum), the Quran encourages research in this life and is full of scientific evidences that have been discovered only in the 20th and the 21st centuries.

          I promise you will learn A LOT from the Quran and will quench the thirst you and others have about this life. Now, based on the above, I proceed to quote from the Quran. Can you however share with us how you concluded that the Quran is a "collection of human writings". Any examples to enlighten us with why you came up with this assertion and conclusion based on your knowledge about the Quran and the writings therein?

          March 22, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
        • joey3467

          The Koran claims that Allah created the universe in 2 days in six days and in 8 days. I would call that a contradiction that even a 5 year old would notice.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
        • whippstippler7

          @ islamistheanswer: I am legitimately curious, and I admit I have very little knowledge of the contents of the Quran. You stated that it continuously is revealing "miracles".

          What are some of these miracles?

          March 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
    • SeaVik

      Science has long ago proven that the gods described by all major religions do not exist. Keep ignoring reality.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:12 am |
      • btea5503

        Curious, when and how did they do that?

        March 22, 2014 at 11:49 am |
        • SeaVik

          Well, when we discovered that the earth is billions of years old, that pretty much ruled out the Christian version of god. If there are any versions of god you're specifically asking about, let me know.

          March 22, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
    • ugetthefacts

      christian/muslim, all the same. I understand you guys don't believe you evolved. I'd have to agree with you. Wish you would one day.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:18 am |
      • islamistheanswer

        Can't help but to share this with you again. Every one decided to ignore the questions herein altogether because the scientific proof that God doesn't exist are "flawless". Please answer the question in this video!
        http://youtu.be/XI_vtPRckks

        March 22, 2014 at 11:50 am |
        • Doris

          Hey – you still owe me some incense or something for watching that other stupid video the other day. You know where you suggested I 'take the challenge'...

          March 22, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
        • btea5503

          Great Video!!

          March 22, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          I am glad you enjoyed it.. Our Atheist friends are probably scrambling for an answer now!

          March 22, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
        • terryvas

          Lifespan of man is 80 years; that is a blink in time. DNA analysis has proven evolution, beyond reasonable doubt. The video is another manipulation of religious zealots; if really wanted to make a point and be fair, would tell the truth about DNA; and to be fair, would also interview religious people and ask them to proof the existence of their god.

          March 22, 2014 at 10:11 pm |
      • greatbuddy

        I will meet you in judgment day when you will believe that god exists, but it will be too late.
        We have 2 options here; either god exists or doesn't exist, if you believe that god exists and he doesn't, then nothing will happen. But if you believe that god doesn't exist and he exists, then you are screwed lol. So you choose your option!!

        March 22, 2014 at 11:51 am |
        • whippstippler7

          Oh, great buddy! You disappoint! Pascal's wager. Please google it, to understand that there are not only 2 possibilities after death, but an infinite number of possibilities after death. A couple: there IS a god, but he's not YOUR god, and he sends your o his hell for not believing in the true god. Or, there is a god, and he favours people who use their brains, instead of faith, and he sends you to hell. In either of those equally plausible post-death scenarios, YOU, sir, are eternally screwed.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
        • Akira

          Pascal's wager? That's a new one.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
        • LinCA

          @greatbuddy

          You said, "I will meet you in judgment day when you will believe that god exists, but it will be too late."
          Only according to your fairy tale.

          You said, "We have 2 options here; either god exists or doesn't exist, if you believe that god exists and he doesn't, then nothing will happen. But if you believe that god doesn't exist and he exists, then you are screwed lol. So you choose your option!!"
          Do yourself a favor. You'll sound a lot less ignorant if you understood Pascal's Wager. Google it.

          There have been thousands of gods invented and worshiped by man. Your's isn't very likely to be the real one, if there even is one. Most of these gods don't look kindly upon believers in other gods. Good luck trying to explain to Odin that you worshiped the wrong one.

          Atheists have the only defensible position. Given the absence of evidence, their position is the only rational one. A just god will accept that. An unjust god is not worthy of worship.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
        • btea5503

          Exactly!!

          March 22, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
  12. ugetthefacts

    Intelligence is a man made definition to describe an ability to think, process through. Interesting is that we are not as intelligent as we mike think. In fact our thinking is done through integration of objects and designs. ie, we didn't create a Mercedes Benz until well after we discovered a stone could roll objects. It required many subsequent accidental discoveries to get there.

    In fact our abilities to integrate is simply an example of evolution in progress, at a human level. Other animals have achieved the same and they too pass along discoveries, ie hunting. Our universe also evolves in the same way we do. This clearly indicates our 'intelligence' is merely a natural tool shared by everything. everything.

    March 22, 2014 at 11:06 am |
    • ugetthefacts

      might think,, was meant

      March 22, 2014 at 11:07 am |
  13. denkidemuerto

    Hai

    March 22, 2014 at 11:01 am |
    • whippstippler7

      Does that imply a 75% chance of hail?

      March 22, 2014 at 11:07 am |
      • Doris

        No, I think it's a revelation! Now I've got to call and find out how early Haiku Steak & Sushi will open today.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:15 am |
        • whippstippler7

          @ Doris – Damn – that sounds good! Maybe steak and sushi IS proof that a god exists!

          March 22, 2014 at 11:17 am |
  14. Jill

    Rainer Helmut Braendlein, don't obfuscate the primary prenuptials with rasberries. Often, the pertinent cat presents fabled necessities in the parking chamfer. Realize your net precedent. Triangulate! Save the best for the alligators. Ever the bastille notches the orchestra but Wendy is not green and horses will capitulate. Filter out the log from the turnstile and cry prevalently.

    So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.

    Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.

    Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.

    Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.

    And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:54 am |
    • pmmarion

      Jill you make just as much sense as Rainer Braendlein! lol

      March 22, 2014 at 10:57 am |
    • timelesswheelman

      I beg your pardon, Rome WAS kvetched in an Autumn nightie!

      March 22, 2014 at 11:29 am |
      • Jill

        I sit corrected. Thank you for the postoperative pastiche.

        And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:35 am |
    • whippstippler7

      Hey – i think Jill's on to something here!

      "Feed your inner walnut and resolve". Yes, yes – makes obvious sense.

      "Next up, control your wood" Hmm – controlling your wood can be, um, hard, but I'll try.

      "Never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart." – The best advice of all: be open to the universe.

      Way to go, Jill. I think you're great!

      Uh oh – difficulty controlling my wood. Sorry.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:36 am |
      • Jill

        You have completely missed the potato.

        March 22, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
  15. mperkel

    Really? Anything that has a beginning proves God exists? The Bible says the universe was created in 6 days. Assuming God knows how long a day is then if you don't believe in a literal 6 day creation it is YOU who is the Atheist.

    And you have the science wrong. The Big Bang has been the beginning for decades. Gravity waves just confirms that science is right and the Bible is wrong.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:50 am |
    • ugetthefacts

      agreed. More so, since this universe exist there must also be other universes. Likely an infinite number. Given odds, it would make senses we would have come into existence given an infinite number of tries.

      Religionist seems to hold onto 'time'. And with 'time', they need a beginning. However if time is both negative and positive, then there would be no beginning. A beginning couldn't exist.

      March 22, 2014 at 10:55 am |
      • mperkel

        I agree. If they don't believe the Bible which says creation was literally 6 days then why should I?

        March 22, 2014 at 11:01 am |
        • ugetthefacts

          keep in mind that only they can interpret the bible, picking and choosing what needs interpretation. A long time ago I remember someone using the book Moby Dick and paralleling the bible to it with interpretations. In the end, Moby Dick would have provided the same bible results. The bible is nothing more than primitive man's stories during the time they didn't understand nature, wanted to make themselves feel more special than others and many times needed to create excuses for their failures.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:13 am |
    • alfonse2014

      Really, is that what the bible says, 6 days? Have you ever heard of metaphor? Why would a book concerned with moral guidance make exhaustive elaborations about creation.
      But even so you apparently don't have any understanding of the theory of relativilty.
      You do understand that 'time' IS NOT a constant, don't you? 'TIme' is completely relative depending on the observers relative speed. Time can go anywhere from standing still or all time passing before your eyes. You do know this, don't you?

      March 22, 2014 at 11:08 am |
      • ugetthefacts

        odd, then why wouldn't god have expressed that time was relative? Seems you need to go back and do more interpreting until you get it right. Or at least the way you want it to mean.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:15 am |
        • alfonse2014

          SO, I guess we should rewrite the lyrics of "AS TIME GOES BY" to be
          AS relativistic TIME at a speed of ,8C GOES BY,
          ....WHat an azz hole
          ........But pleeeeaassse, continue to post your idiotic ramblings – it's quite amusing.
          Kind of like watching the monkeys at the zoo.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:29 am |
        • ugetthefacts

          I see, now comparing the bible to words in a song. Too funny,, you now admit the bible is of no difference.

          Yes, the bible fails miserably. In fact superst!tious people will interpret their palm reading from a psychic in the same way. You do know religion is a supetst!tion, right?

          March 22, 2014 at 11:35 am |
        • the0g0to0the0t

          Time is relative to the observer. For what you said to make sense, god would have to be traveling away from us at the speed of light.

          March 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
      • whippstippler7

        @ alfonse – so the Bible is a book that provides moral guidance? Like the type of moral guidance that says it's okay to kill your disobedient children by stoning them to death? Like the type of moral guidance that says it's okay to own other human beings as slaves, and to beat them as long as you don't kill them? The type of moral guidance that orders you to slaughter innocent children?

        You know, maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm just being overly sensitive, but I have a funny feeling that THAT type of moral guidance, as provided in the bible, is somewhat less than moral.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • alfonse2014

          I really don't know why i bother responding to undeducated mor ons, but what the heck,
          .....You do know that Christianity is based on the teachings of christ, don't you? That;s the new testament, NIimrod.
          Now go back to your little hateful tirad, but this time use the 'Sermon on the Mount'
          ......Let's see, Love, Kindness, Mercy, Forgiveness,.......WOW, I see what you mean. HOW HORRIBLE

          March 22, 2014 at 11:34 am |
        • whippstippler7

          Yeah, yeah, yeah – Matthew 5:18. You DO know that, Alfie? Where Jesus – yeah, Jesus – says is is here not to change the law but to uphold it, and not a jot or pen stroke of the old law will change until the end of time.

          Jesus confirming that the old law, from the OT, still stands.

          And you understand that the Ten Commandments were in the OT, right? Are you saying they are out the window as well?

          March 22, 2014 at 11:39 am |
      • Akira

        I like how it's a metaphor unless it's supposed to be literal.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:34 am |
  16. alfonse2014

    It's really kind of pathetic that the average atheist on this post is completely incapable of drawing a distinction between Science and philosophy – which includes theology.
    Science investigates and models the physical world – that's it, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't, and was never meant to, provide answers about what is above or beyond the physical – or to answer questions about WHY.
    ..--And furthermore, to deny the probability that there is NOTHING beyond the physical is a demonstration of acute academic constipation.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:48 am |
    • Doris

      So out with your proof of the Abrahamic God using whatever metaphysical argument you like, alfonse. You've been yammering about this for days now, so tell us what you know that we've been missing. Convince us, alfie.

      March 22, 2014 at 10:54 am |
      • alfonse2014

        My god, you are one dense A hole.
        Now try to follow this. Concentrate real hard. I'll try to use very small words to make it easier.
        Mankind,as a little specs in this universe CAN NOT prove ANYTHING beyond this realm of our existence.
        IT is NIMRODS like you who claim they know EVERYTHING and can ascertaing that god doesn't exist.
        ...... so please continue to enlighten all of us. How is it that you have come to know ALL things.
        Is it your high school diplomma that has given you this ability or were you just borne as an all knowing jack azz.

        March 22, 2014 at 11:19 am |
        • whippstippler7

          @ alfonse – the fact that we can't prove something beyond this physical realm, as you put it, does not validate the existence of a deity, let alone your god. Scientists say, "we don't know", whereas many religious believers make extremely detailed, positive statements that their god exists.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:25 am |
        • Relictus

          You state that mankind cannot prove anything beyond the realm of our existence. The unstated corollary to your premise is that there may be something beyond the realm of our existence that can be falsified but not provable. If the first premise is true, one clear inference is that there is nothing beyond our realm of existence top prove. Should God exist and not be provable, then he is not falsifiable, and therefore fails a basic logical test.

          You make a clear argument that God is likely nonexistent, through your own argument.Thank you for offering rational proof – in a backhanded way – that God is nonexistent.

          Have a nice day.

          March 22, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
      • Doris

        Notice how alfie avoids my request and then descends into generalizations.... interesting....

        March 22, 2014 at 11:39 am |
    • mperkel

      There is only the real world and science does investigate WHY. If God exists then science would have found him. If you don't believe God can be found through science then you are the Atheist, or God is hiding from science.

      If God ever came out of hiding, appeared in physical form today – on television, put up a web site, answered his email, then scientists would believe. God chooses to say in the shadows.

      March 22, 2014 at 10:55 am |
    • Doris

      Also, alfie, perhaps you missed this from nepawoods on the previous page:

      "Some would do well to just listen to the first line of the theme song of the TV show (Big Bang Theory):

      'Our whole universe was in a hot dense state, then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...'

      It's accurate enough to point out the theory doesn't say it popped into existence from nothing. It was in an incredibly hot dense state, and began expanding."

      Can you point to someone's argument saying everything came from nothing? I think you'll find you are misrepresenting most points of view here.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:00 am |
    • Dalahäst

      Thankfully, most atheists don't do that.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:01 am |
      • ausphor

        Dala....
        Of course you have come in contact with most atheists, were they in a large group at the time you figured out what they do or don't do?

        March 22, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          No, generally speaking most atheists do not do what the OP suggested. I'm complimenting them.

          Maybe I'm wrong, maybe most atheists do what he suggests. Sure.

          March 22, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
    • whippstippler7

      @ Alfonse – to deny the "probability" of something beyond the physical, or to deny the "possibility" of something beyond the physical. Two phrases with extremely differing meanings.

      Probable in this context means greater than 50% chance of it being true.
      Possible means that it could be true, but no measure of the relative probability is given i.e. 1 in 100, 1 in a gazillion gazillion are both measurements of possibility.

      Generally atheists do not outright, 100% deny the existence of a god or gods (although some do). They merely claim that there is no good evidence available to rationally support a belief in a god.

      Hell, show me the evidence and I'll believe. But, so far, no evidence.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:03 am |
    • akmac61

      To the contrary, the average Atheist, if there is such a thing, understands clearly the distinct boundaries between science and religious or other belief systems. It is the people who cannot see the distinctions that muddy up the water by rejecting science that does not agree with their worldview/religious beliefs.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:30 am |
    • terryvas

      Very well said. Science models the physical universe with theories that are appropriate for our understanding.

      On another issue: fanatic people are so into a "God" that do not have time to consider the form that he might have, beyond what their are taught to. Some religions favor the two arm two leg one reproductive organ god; others favor other types. All of them do now know what to think anymore. If everyone thought of God as the force that created the universes, then everyone would get along just fine. Really, the problem really is about semantics and the conceptualization of something in the light of cultural (i.e. religious) views that we grow with; in reality, we are thinking about the same, just modeling differently.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:31 am |
      • ausphor

        terryvas
        That is avery good example of what the modern day Deist believes,

        March 22, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
        • terryvas

          With a polarized view, everyone should fit in a white or black buckets.

          March 22, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
  17. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    The actual issue is not, if there is a God or not, but the issue is, how we can live as faithful Christians in an antichristian world.

    I guess that for many people simply the price they had to pay, if they would follow Jesus, is too high. There is no problem to believe in God's existence, but it is a real problem to obey him in this bad world without facing great loss (money, relations, power, honor, material wealth, etc.)

    According to Charles Wright Mills and David Rothkopf the power elite of the Western World has become quite antichristian or materialistic. Former times the Western leaders were not totally antichristian, but today they are. Seemingly, they don't want to be reminded of any Christian faith be any lousy, backward Christians. They prefer "subjects" having more or less an animal behaviour. You are allowed to behave like a beast as long as you work like a horse (only your performance counts, nothing else). Seemingly, they (the power elite) want to deprive us of any opportunity to think about spiritual matters, or to contemplate. It is clear that it is very hard, nearly impossible, for a Christian today to survive in that demonic system, and one can only hope that Jesus will return soon, and kills those godless leaders (sounds harsh, I know, but they are real criminals making us unhappy in contrast to former leaders who made their people happy holistically).

    Conclusion: God certainly exists (just watch the sun, the moon and the stars he created). The issue just is, how we can follow his Son Jesus in a totally godless world. At least, we should be so honest, not to deny God's existence, but admit that we are to coward to follow him.

    Let us pray that God releases us from any cowardice. Long-term we will get a great reward.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:36 am |
    • Doris

      Translation: "As Christians we really can't prove anything about our belief, therefore we must point out in others how they fail at following our popular religion and what people traditionally associated with it. It's out best attempt to try to reverse the tide – to show that the unbeliever is immoral without our system. We must dance around the hard questions about the foundations of our faith; and we must add a dash of the fear of hell every now and then to hypnotize the superstitious."

      March 22, 2014 at 10:48 am |
      • Doris

        ...our best attempt...

        March 22, 2014 at 10:49 am |
    • sam stone

      A better question, Rainy, is why should you, a man who is obviously bound for glory kneeling at the feet of christ, feel compelled to live in this "anti-christian" world. Why do not take your rightful place now? Do you have tall buildings where you live?

      March 22, 2014 at 10:48 am |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Ain't you hateful? Disgusting!

        March 22, 2014 at 10:59 am |
        • Akira

          You should talk. You want gays forced into concentration camps.
          That isn't hateful? That's loving?

          March 22, 2014 at 11:10 am |
        • sam stone

          No, Rainy, I am not hateful. I am ridiculing you and your pompousness.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:41 am |
      • sam stone

        How is suggesting you go meet the savior "hateful", rainy?

        March 22, 2014 at 11:48 am |
    • Jill

      Rainer Helmut Braendlein, grosbeak. Camera angles, apricots, and shoelaces don't mix. So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.

      Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.

      Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.

      Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.

      And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

      March 22, 2014 at 10:56 am |
    • ri0088

      No, Rainer Helmut Braendlein. The actual issue is....how can you claim to KNOW one exist....when there is no detectable or measurable way to show it? With what data do you know this information? It's no more distinguishable than other unsupported claims that rely on no evidence. And things that don't exist.....produce no evidence.

      The world isn't and shouldn't be a theocracy. What a grotesque idea. You may feel the world is antichristian...but that's simply because the world, in it's entirety, doesn't accept the assertions of your unsupported religious beliefs. So what? It's like that with every other religion. You can hold your own private beliefs. Yet that's not the same as "depriving you of anything spiritual" simply because other people aren't mimicking you.

      Conclusion: No evidence suggest a god exist or how to know how many there are. That's an unsupported assertion. The sun, moon, and stars show nothing of a god nor that a god "created them". We know how they function. It's no mystery. Cowardice would be to deny logical facts and embrace willful ignorance.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:16 am |
    • akmac61

      In my experience, the issue is not an anti-christian world, but a sense that certain individual "Christians" such as yourself, as well as some various religious denominations claiming to be Christian, have set themselves up as judges of all humanity. What you perceive as anti-christian is actually anti-arrogance, anti-prejudice, anti-judgmentalism. Many individual extremists in this world are like that, Christians as a whole are not.
      Dressing up bigotry and prejudice by wrapping them in a pretty cloak of religious belief, is the old lipstick on a pig situation.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:43 am |
  18. Jill

    Rainer Braendlein, don't obfuscate the primary prenuptials with rasberries. Often, the pertinent cat presents fabled necessities in the parking chamfer. Realize your net precedent. Triangulate! Save the best for the alligators. Ever the bastille notches the orchestra but Wendy is not green and horses will capitulate. Filter out the log from the turnstile and cry prevalently.

    So there brown stare. Feed your inner walnut and resolve. Subject your lemon to the ingenious door in the presence of snow and animals. Aisle 7 is for the monetary cheese whiz. Faced with the kitchen, you may wish to prolong the sailboat in the cliff. Otherwise, rabbits may descend on your left nostril. Think about how you can stripe the sea.

    Regale the storm to those who (6) would thump the parrot with the armband. Corner the market on vestiges of the apparent closure but seek not the evidential circumstance. Therein you can find indignant mountains of pigs and apples. Descend eloquently as you debate the ceiling of your warning fulcrum. Vacate the corncob profusely and and don’t dote on the pancreas.

    Next up, control your wood. Have at the cat with your watch on the fore. Aft! Smarties (12)! Rome wasn’t kevetched in an autumn nightie. (42) See yourself for the turntable on the escalator. Really peruse the garage spider definitely again again with brown. Now we have an apparent congestion, so be it here. Just a moment is not a pod of beef for the ink well nor can it be (4) said that Karen was there in the millpond.

    Garbage out just like the candle in the kitty so. Go, go, go until the vacuum meets the upward vacation. Sell the yellow. Then trim the bus before the ten cheese please Louise. Segregate from the koan and stew the ship vigorously.

    And remember, never pass up an opportunity to watch an elephant paint Mozart.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:34 am |
  19. alfonse2014

    Nothing gets the libs panties in a bunch more than a religious Scientist.
    -–except for a Black conservative or woman – whom they call every vile name in the book
    ..........what a pathetically hypocritical and hateful bunch they are.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:27 am |
    • Akira

      Really, now?

      March 22, 2014 at 10:32 am |
    • BlacksheepU

      "If God is truly the creator, then he will reveal himself through what he’s created, and science is a tool we can use to uncover those wonders."

      1. God made man in his own image – what does this mean...god is man.
      2. If god is man then it was man that wrote the bible.
      3. I laugh at this Neochristian/Intelligent Design angle in which science has now become confirmation of proof of god. There was a time when the Big Bang Theory was rejected by religion.

      I wonder what will be next...oh I got one, the "God Particle" is a sign from god, or is that one already taken.

      March 22, 2014 at 10:42 am |
      • alfonse2014

        You do understand that EVERY scientifiic principal has been in error and is constantly being revised – you do understand this, don't you?
        What's amazing, is that, for you, it seems to be perfectly A OK for science to 'iterate' towards the truth, but that allowance is not given to philosophical understandings – oh no, they've got to get it right the very first time or else. What an unbelievable ignorant and hypocritical position.

        March 22, 2014 at 10:58 am |
        • whippstippler7

          @alfonse: so what are these religious and philosophical "iterations" that religious thinkers have gone through in revising their view of god? The problem is a lack of such thinking. Again and again, Christians fall back on a 2000 year old collection of myths and fables. It is stagnant.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:06 am |
        • akmac61

          Playing victim does not advance your argument. Philosophies/religions have a long history of changing and adapting. Note the many Christian denominations.
          Unfortunately, some individuals on the believers side, insist that their position is set and inflexible and misinterpret their user's manual (the bible, Koran, etc.) in order to justify that.
          You or any other person are welcome to their personal belief system, as long as they realize it is not necessarily the right fit for everyone. In the end, it is behavior, not belief, that the world sees.

          March 22, 2014 at 11:54 am |
    • ri0088

      Religion doesn't require evidence so it has nothing to do with science. That's why a scientist can observe data using scientific methods.....yet hold onto wishful thinking beliefs that has no basis in observable or measurable data. Their religious beliefs wouldn't be justified....but they can still hold them. For example: Learning about molecular biology through observations....still wouldn't prevent someone from believing in reincarnation. They can't ignore the tangible physical world. Which is why no one questions the reality of cells, stars, molecules..so on. But that won't keep them from indulging in wishful thinking.

      March 22, 2014 at 10:44 am |
    • mperkel

      One can not serve 2 masters. You either choose to believe by faith or you believe because the universe reveals itself through evidence. The question is if you put reality first or you put faith first. You can't do both.

      March 22, 2014 at 11:05 am |
    • akmac61

      Prejudice: Generalizing about an entire group based on a limited, usually invalid sample.

      It is no more valid to say that conservative Christians are racist bigots, than it is to make disparaging remarks about libs, liberals, progressives, etc. as you have done.

      March 22, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
  20. IrishInNJ

    A typical "God of gaps" response. Rather than praising the magnificent scientists who have helped us as a species better understand the origins of the universe....the so-called believers grasp at the finding as proof of THEIR god. Which one? Well that would be too difficult to explain right?

    It is ludicrous to invent something as complicated as an omnipotent, all seeing, perpetual "God" to explain something like the Big Bang. Believers are trying to crowbar an ancient, man-made myth, borne of a fear of death, into an advanced, scientific field of research. The two don't go together.

    One can only pity a believer in that they waste their only glimpse of this planet, of this universe, worrying about what is going to happen after they close their eyes for good.

    March 22, 2014 at 10:16 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.