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March 20th, 2014
11:14 AM ET

Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God?

Opinion by Leslie A. Wickman, special to CNN

(CNN) The remarkable discovery, announced this week, of ripples in the space-time fabric of the universe rocked the world of science - and the world of religion.

Touted as evidence for inflation (a faster-than-the-speed-of-light expansion of our universe), the new discovery of traces of gravity waves affirms scientific concepts in the fields of cosmology, general relativity, and particle physics.

The new discovery also has significant implications for the Judeo-Christian worldview, offering strong support for biblical beliefs.

Here's how.

The prevalent theory of cosmic origins prior to the Big Bang theory was the “Steady State,” which argued that the universe has always existed, without a beginning that necessitated a cause.

However, this new evidence strongly suggests that there was a beginning to our universe.

If the universe did indeed have a beginning, by the simple logic of cause and effect, there had to be an agent – separate and apart from the effect – that caused it.

That sounds a lot like Genesis 1:1 to me: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.”

So this latest discovery is good news for us believers, as it adds scientific support to the idea that the universe was caused – or created – by something or someone outside it and not dependent on it.

MORE ON CNN: Big Bang breakthrough announced; gravitational waves detected

Atheist-turned-agnostic astronomer Fred Hoyle, who coined the term “Big Bang,” famously stated, “A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics."

As Hoyle saw it, the Big Bang was not a chaotic explosion, but rather a very highly ordered event – one that could not have occurred by random chance.

We also need to remember that God reveals himself both through scripture and creation. The challenge is in seeing how they fit together. A better understanding of each can inform our understanding of the other.

It’s not just about cracking open the Bible and reading whatever we find there from a 21st-century American perspective. We have to study the context, the culture, the genre, the authorship and the original audience to understand the intent.

The creation message in Genesis tells us that God created a special place for humans to live and thrive and be in communion with him; that God wants a relationship with us, and makes provisions for us to have fellowship with him, even after we turn away from him.

So, we know that Genesis was never intended to be a detailed scientific handbook, describing how God created the universe. It imparts a theological, not a scientific, message.

(Imagine how confusing messages about gravity waves and dark matter might be to ancient Hebrew readers.)

As a modern believer and a scientist, when I look up at the sky on a clear starry night, I am reminded that “the heavens declare the glory of God” (Psalm 19:1). I am in awe of the complexity of the physical world, and how all of its pieces fit together so perfectly and synergistically.

In the Old Testament book of Jeremiah, the writer tells us that God “established (his) covenant with day and night, and with the fixed laws of heaven and earth.”

These physical laws established by God to govern interactions between matter and energy result in a finely tuned universe that provides the ideal conditions for life on our planet.

As we observe the complexity of the cosmos, from subatomic particles to dark matter and dark energy, we quickly conclude that there must be a more satisfying explanation than random chance. Properly practiced, science can be an act of worship in looking at God’s revelation of himself in nature.

If God is truly the creator, then he will reveal himself through what he’s created, and science is a tool we can use to uncover those wonders.

Leslie Wickman is director of the Center for Research in Science at Azusa Pacific University. Wickman has also been an engineer for Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space, where she worked on NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and International Space Station programs. The views expressed in this column belong to Wickman. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Culture & Science • Faith • Opinion • Science

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soundoff (4,918 Responses)
  1. perpetualcacophony

    If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?

    March 23, 2014 at 5:03 pm |
    • Truth Be Told

      Gravity is an example of God's handiwork in the world. Attempts to disobey God's laws are the works of Satan. This is why it is a sin for man to fly or to travel in space. Rebuke Satan and avoid the fancy boxed tissue. Rolled tissue, such as Angel Soft is not of the devil.

      March 23, 2014 at 5:53 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        Apple Bush are you out of purgatory?

        March 23, 2014 at 7:00 pm |
      • igaftr

        "Gravity is an example of God's handiwork in the world."

        Why do so many who claim truth, lie. Gravity does not show any gods.
        Is that the sort of nonsense you accept as evicence?

        March 24, 2014 at 8:40 am |
  2. timelesswheelman

    The Holy Quran was revealed over 1400 years ago. It has a verse that describes the Big Bang Theory in the vocabulary of the time.
    Surah (chapter)21, Ayat (verse) 30:

    30. Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

    The Holy Quran has been in book form and unaltered for over 1400 years. You can pick it up and read the unchanged word of the creator and enlighten yourself. Allah is the same God who sent Adam, Noah(Nuh), Moses(Musa), Jacob(Yacub) and the 12 tribes, Abraham(Ibrahim) and Jesus(Isa).

    The second chapter, Surah Baqarah says:

    136. Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."

    137. So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allah will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

    138. [Our Sibghah (religion) is] the Sibghah (Religion) of Allah (Islam) and which Sibghah (religion) can be better than Allah's? And we are His worshippers. [Tafsir Ibn Kathir.]

    139. Say (O Muhammad Peace be upon him to the Jews and Christians), "Dispute you with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? And we are to be rewarded for our deeds and you for your deeds. And we are sincere to Him in worship and obedience (i.e. we worship Him Alone and none else, and we obey His Orders)."

    140. Or say you that Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] were Jews or Christians? Say, "Do you know better or does Allah (knows better...; that they all were Muslims)? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony [i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him when he comes, written in their Books. (See Verse 7:157)] he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do."

    March 23, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
    • igaftr

      the koran is just another unverifiable text written by people who continue to worship gods, with nothing showing any gods exist. Islam is very similar to christianity as it tells you how men wnat you to live, and attribute what men want to a god. Still no basis for the belief and considering the history of both christianity and islam, they are both very harmful to humanity.

      March 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
      • timelesswheelman

        Your statement shows you haven't read it.

        March 23, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • igaftr

          I have read it...interesting piece of fiction, but nothing to verify the claims of any gods.
          Belief in it has caused nearly as much destruction, death and persecution as christianity has, with NO validity to its claims.

          It claims to be a religion of piece, just like christianity, but that is only with one caveat...you must be a member of the same religion, if you are not, then you aren't in our club and it's ok to mistreat them. Many times you foul book calls for the death of infidels. Why call for the death of people who aren't as gullible as you?

          March 23, 2014 at 12:44 pm |
      • timelesswheelman

        Islam is Allah's directions for how man should live. It is quite simply the best way. The followers can be misled just as followers of any group can be misled. When Timothy McVeigh destroyed the federal building because of his beliefs people didn't condemn Chrstianity because they know he was misguded. Lets not forget the Christian ku klux klan. Once again, we don't condemn the religion because of a few misguided individuals. Finally,which government uneashed atomic bombs on innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Are all Americans to blame for that? Certainly not.
        There are over 2 billion Muslims. There are more Muslims in New York than there are Jews in Israel. If we were as bad as the media would have you believe, what do you think that would really look like?

        March 23, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • igaftr

          That's what islam CLAIMS to be, but there is nothing to verify any "allah" exists. It is just another man made book claiming to speak as if there are gods.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
        • doobzz

          "If we were as bad as the media would have you believe, what do you think that would really look like?"

          It would look like a passenger jet flying into a skyscraper.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • whippstippler7

          @ timeless: but isn't in true that a basic tenet of Islam is that the punishment for Apostasy – for leaving the faith – is death?

          March 23, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
        • Akira

          Using McVeigh is fallacious. He didn't bomb that building because he was Christian and doing it in the name of Christianity; he wasn't religious. He hated the government. He specifically bombed that building BECAUSE it was owned by the US Government.

          False equivalence.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
        • Reality

          Some examples of how Muslims live or have lived:

          The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent and Not So Recent Body Count

          As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:

          The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century

          ■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

          and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.

          and more recently

          1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

          1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

          2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

          3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. Iraqi civilians killed as of 05/10/2013/, 113,249-123,978 mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

          4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

          5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

          6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

          7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

          8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

          9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

          10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

          11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

          12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

          13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

          14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

          15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.

          16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

          17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

          18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

          19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011

          20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011

          21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.

          22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) – Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.

          23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "

          o 24) Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:18am EDT
          o
          BAGHDAD (Reuters) – A suicide bomber detonated an explosive-packed car outside a Shi'ite Muslim office in central Baghdad on Monday, killing at least 26 people and wounding more than 190 in an attack bearing the hallmarks of Iraq's al Qaeda affiliate.
          The bombing on a Shi'ite religious office comes at a sensitive time, with the country's fractious Shi'ite, Sunni and Kurdish blocs locked in a crisis that threatens to unravel their power-sharing deal and spill into sectarian tensions."

          25) BURGAS, Bulgaria | Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:27am EDT

          (Reuters) – A suicide bomber carried out an attack that killed seven people in a bus transporting Israeli tourists in Bulgaria, the interior minister said on Thursday, and Israel said Iranian-backed Hezbollah militants were to blame.

          26 ) September 12, 2012
          U.S. AMBASSADOR KILLED
          Envoy to Libya dies in rocket blast

          27) Boston Marathon horror – April 2013, four dead, hundreds injured and maimed for life.

          Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

          -Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles as of 09/15/2011/, 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

          – Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed mostly due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,

          – Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.

          – Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

          – North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.

          – Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

          – The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

          – – Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

          – Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols escaped the death penalty twice because of deadlocked juries. He was sentenced to 161 consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole,[3][7] and is incarcerated in ADX Florence, a super maximum security prison near Florence, Colorado. He shares a cellblock that is commonly referred to as "Bombers Row" with Ramzi Yousef and Ted Kaczynski

          – Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.

          – Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

          – Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.
          – The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war – charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

          The capture of Ratko Mladić: (Serbian Cyrillic: Ратко Младић, pronounced [râtkɔ mlǎːditɕ], born 12 March 1943[1][2]) is an accused war criminal and a former Bosnian Serb military leader. On May 31, 2011, Mladić was extradited to The Hague, where he was processed at the detention center that holds suspects for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).[3] His trial began on 3 June 2011.

          – the bloody terror brought about by the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

          – Bin Laden was executed for crimes against humanity on May 1, 2011

          – Ditto for Anwar al-Awlaki on September 30, 2011

          – Ditto for Abu Yahya al-Libi on June 5, 2012

          – The capture of Abu Anas al-Libi on October 7, 2013

          March 23, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
        • Reality

          Major Religions of the World

          Ranked by Number of Adherents

          (1. Christianity: 2.1 billion

          2. Islam: 1.5 billion ( 1.2 billion Sunnis who hate 300 million Shiites and vice versa)

          3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

          4. Hinduism: 900 million

          5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

          6. Buddhism: 376 million

          7. primal-indigenous: 300 million

          8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

          9. Sikhism: 23 million

          10. Juche: 19 million

          11. Spiritism: 15 million

          12. Judaism: 14 million

          13. Baha'i: 7 million

          14. Jainism: 4.2 million

          15. Shinto: 4 million

          16. Cao Dai: 4 million

          17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

          18. Tenrikyo: 2 million

          19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million

          20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

          21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

          22. Scientology: 500 thousand

          March 23, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • timelesswheelman

          for all those who refer to the 9/11 attacks I refer yo to a video called "Loose Change"......enjoy

          March 23, 2014 at 6:09 pm |
        • ddeevviinn

          Reality

          Starting with the Crusades and moving down, I could make a similar list of Christian perpetuated atrocities that would rival your list. Point is this: the veracity of one's faith is not necessarily determined by the action of it's adherents.

          March 23, 2014 at 7:26 pm |
        • Reality

          As we await timelesswheelman to refute the Five Step Program to Deprogram Islam:

          o WHERE WAS YOUR GOD(S) WHEN THE FOLLOWING TOOK PLACE:

          The Twenty (or so) Worst Things GOD'S CREATURES Have Done to Each Other:

          M. White, http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#u (required reading)

          The Muslim Conquest of India

          "The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "

          Rank …..Death Toll ..Cause …..Centuries……..(Religions/Groups involved)*

          1. 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists/atheists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")

          2. 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)

          3. 40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism)

          4. 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C (Anglican)

          5. 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chinese folk religion)

          6. 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C ( Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion vs. a form of Christianity)

          7. 20 million Joseph Stalin 20C (Communism)

          8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)

          9. 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C

          10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)

          11. 15 million First World War 20C (Christians vs. Christians)

          12. 15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C (Christians vs. Pagans)

          13. 13 million Muslim Conquest of India 11C-18C

          14. 10 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

          15. 10 million Xin Dynasty 1C

          16. 9 million Russian Civil War 20C (Christians vs Communists)

          17. 8 million Fall of Rome 5C (Pagans vs. Christians)

          18. 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C (Christians)

          19. 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C (Christians vs Christians)

          20. 7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C

          March 23, 2014 at 9:51 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      What is the difference exactly between the earth and heavens? Both are made of the same stuff, what exactly was split?

      March 23, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
      • timelesswheelman

        "The one united piece". (smile)

        March 23, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          ... but what was split. (annoying smug smile)

          March 23, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Where are the flying horses?

      March 23, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
    • Reality

      Quick starting the educational process for islamistheanswer and now timelesswheelman: (are they the same?)

      from the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi--

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your self-cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

      Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

      March 23, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
    • Torbjörn Larsson, OM

      The "holy" text of my ancestors, the Edda, says the same thing except it has other magic beings involved. I'm not interested in your magicking and your millennium old and non-workable ideas of cherry picking at pattern recognition however.

      The interesting thing to ask yourself is if it is true. And as I commented below you, we can see that creationism is now like homeopathy, except even less likely.

      To expand a little on myths, we also know that they are unlikely to describe facts apriori. Indeed, a posteriori nothing in the abrahamic texts (say) has been verified, from ideas of magic creation (refuted 2004) over global floods (refuted in the 1800s) to a single breeder pair (refuted 2011) to magic religion founders (all without historical evidence, eg "Abraham", "Moses", "Jesus" and "Mohammad" didn't exist since we expect historical evidence, same as in all pre-enlightenment religions)!

      If all abrahamic magic sects posit the oldest texts as basis, we also see them declare in the first chapters "we are myths ... oh, and we are lying too", since they relate two mutually incompatible creation myths. (Different order of events.) Note again, I'm not interested in the magicking, these are just easy observations on the lacking veracity of the myths.

      March 23, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
      • Torbjörn Larsson, OM

        I also wanted to point out that the "holy" texts of the asa sects are as "holy" as abrahamic texts.

        March 23, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
  3. justageeker

    "Not created, began. There is a difference." – OK. However you say it did not exist.

    "But that does not exclude the possibility of there having been time "before" the event" – I suppose Hawking and others who believe in the Big Bang could be wrong. I don't know any more than they do so I kinda just think that they might be right.

    March 23, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      @justageeker,
      No one knows what existed before the Big Bang. How a singularity may have come to exist is unknown.

      Also, Hawking and many others are at least Agnostic, if not Atheists.

      March 23, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
  4. escapeandrun

    "by the simple logic of cause and effect"
    Sorry, explain the Cause of your God again...
    Stop using kindergarten logic to explain how to fit your Bible into the realities of the Universe.

    March 23, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
  5. Vic

    ♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰

    Early on:
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/comment-page-16/#comment-2971087

    March 23, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      @Vic,
      Are you getting so bored with your own posts that you don't even bother copying and pasting anymore, but just link to it?

      March 23, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        It explains so much, he does still hold the bible as truth-lazy is lazy!

        March 23, 2014 at 12:21 pm |
    • sam stone

      Jesus Christ is a myth....no heaven, no hell, no sin, no redemption....

      March 23, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
  6. Torbjörn Larsson, OM

    Truly embarrassing for the concerned, poorly researched (big bang originated 1928 with Hubble, steady state theory 1948 with Hoyle) and with magic incantations waved around.

    – Fact is that Wickman relies on conflating the beginning of our universe with the beginning of spacetime. And throwing in know falsified theology such as "first cause", when we know from quantum fluctuations that effects can be uncaused. Our universe is zero energy, so spacetime _has_ to belong to the latter case of having fluctuated into existence if it has a beginning at all.

    Inflation happens in a “cold” spacetime in its later phases, relatively weak quantum fluctuations of gravitons and presumably inflatons being present.

    A spacetime with a well defined classical thermodynamic appears after inflation heats the universe (and its own energy disappears) – particles, temperatures and pressures. That is when pre-inflationary models of big bang takes over.

    To sum up, we know our universe started and when it did so. But we don’t know if spacetime has a beginning, and what it would look like. What we do know for certain is that no magical agency was involved!

    – Fact is that inflation makes creationism perfectly analogous to homeopathy.

    These scams both start off with a seed volume, which is diluted so nothing of the original remains. No molecules remains for the homeopath, no inflaton field particles (if that is what it is, else no inflation) remains for the creationist. The supposed magic is then in the dilution process. Madness!

    The only difference is while homeopaths are insanely wrong with some 30 orders of magnitude (from a biologically active drug), creationists are insanely wrong with 90 (from a cosmologically active process)!

    March 23, 2014 at 11:46 am |
    • Vic

      Obviously you don't really understand what Dr. Wickman nor what this discovery is addressing here.

      In my own words:

      This discovery is monumental for both, the scientific as well as the Christian perspectives. This discovery is the first step in the history of science that would shed some light on the possibility of how to reconcile Albert Einstein's Theory of General Relativity and Quantum Physics/Mechanics—they are in a direct collision course, which scientists have not been able to do ever, so far. It also confirms more than any other evidence that the universe had a beginning and expanded at a rate faster than the speed of light within less than a trillion of a trillion of a trillion of a second —less than 10^-35 of a second— of the Big Bang by detecting the miniscule "light polarizations" called B-Modes caused by the Gravitational Waves —which were theorized in 1916 by Albert Einstein in his Theory of General Relativity but never detected before— of the Inflation of the Big Bang which are embedded in the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation—CMB or CMBR that was discovered by American scientists back in 1964. This very sophisticated approach of detecting "light polarizations—B-Modes" caused by the Gravitational Waves of the Big Bang was invented in the USA that led to detecting those Gravitational Waves for the first time in history, which also has great implications for the Christian belief.

      Early on:
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/comment-page-16/#comment-2971087

      March 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
      • igaftr

        Thix has no bearing on christianity. It does not show any gods exist, and it certainly doesn't show the christian god exists. This has no bearing on religion at all.

        March 23, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        "which also has great implications for the Christian belief."

        Only in the sense that christian often molds itself to the facts.

        March 23, 2014 at 12:46 pm |
      • Doris

        I think Torbjörn's does understand Wickman's take on these findings, Vic. It just obvious to Torbjörn and to me and I'm sure to many others that, just like WL Craig, Wickman leaps to support the God of Abraham, and in doing so, IGNORES many other possibilities, as warned by Vilenkin (co-author of BVG Theorem) and other astrophysicists.

        March 23, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
        • Doris

          clean-up of my first line:

          I think Torbjörn does understand Wickman's take on these findings, Vic. It is just obvious to

          March 23, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
      • Torbjörn Larsson, OM

        I understand perfectly what BICEP2 observations (if they can be repeated) means. That is that creationism is an even worse idea than homeopathy. And I described why I know that.

        If you don't respond to my comment except saying "nu hu" like a 5 year old, I won't make any substantial response. That 'reasoning' doesn't merit one.

        March 23, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • Torbjörn Larsson, OM

          I meant to say, mean in this context.

          Not even the cosmologists have recovered from the surprise and what it means for cosmology as regards the more interesting physics (rather than once more showing magic ideas for a scam), I'm sure. (The observations is now hovering somewhere between "hiiltop" inflation and Linde's chaotic inflation, to take the two perhaps simplest theories of inflation.)

          March 23, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
  7. ugetthefacts

    Ignorance is hanging on to a belief of a god that cannot be proven. Ignorance is accepting scriptures that fail miserably when describing creation, since the definition of the universe was based on what was GUESSED at the time.

    Then again, religions reduce the followers by calling the children sinners and using hell fears. The same tactics used by terrorist. Ignorance is taught among the religious.

    March 23, 2014 at 11:44 am |
  8. letsberealpeople

    If the father if the Big Bang Theory is open to the event being by caused by God (or another higher intellect), why are his followers so vocally averse to the notion? Ignorance? Naivety? Defiance? Arrogance I suspect.

    You accuse believers of being closed eyed to the explanations of science, yet you yourselves are...a bit cultish...

    I don't have an issue with your beliefs. I have an issue with your arrogance.

    March 23, 2014 at 10:30 am |
    • bostontola

      Science and the God Hypothesis are not mutually exclusive. Science and Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc., are mutually exclusive.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:38 am |
      • islamistheanswer

        For over 1400 years, it has not been mutually exclusive for Islam. Why do you generalize? Is this based on your ignorance about Islam so you opt to include it with the religions you are familiar with.

        March 23, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
        • Akira

          I am so glad you admit that Allah has nothing to do with science. This is heartening.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Not sure how you understood this but let me explain further so that the picture is CLEAR. Allah is the creator of this universe and other universes (that science speaks of today luckily). Islam mentioned this for the longest time and as you can imagine, at a time when people had no access or means to verify those claims (people like yourself, opted to disbelief and argue about the existence of God) but now that those scientific "discoveries" became realities and the same as supported by the Quran (that was sent to Prophet Mohammed , Peace and Blessings be upon him), from God), it only solidifies Islam as the true religion of God. You still opt to believe otherwise, your choice! What I am here to tell you is that the evidence is so staggering that we shouldn't take it lightly and should at least examine it carefully. Back to my point about God and Science, for once and for all, I should set the record straight, Islam doesn't oppose science and scientific research. We are encouraged to pursue knowledge and science. Everything that science has found nowadays has been supported by the QURAN! We are yet to see any scientific breakthrough that contradicts Islam and the Quran (please enlighten me if you know of anything!).

          March 23, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
        • Bob

          islamistheanswer, your claims of science in the Quran and other claims about your crazy, violent religion range from specious to outright lies. If your Quran is such a book of science, then state based on it what you think that the eight lowest energy levels of the plutonium atom are, in eV units please.

          And no, you have not presented any valid proof or evidence whatsoever, despite your (dishonest) claims to the contrary, that your nasty sky fairy AKA Allah exists, which is a good thing since he seems to be a violent, murderous ass hole just like his many terrorist followers. Islam is mainly a religion of violence, as can clearly be seen from recent history. If you claim otherwise on that one, then present what you did to protest that terrorism, with citations.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:20 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Let's begin by seeing where this rage and anger comes from. Have you read any of the scientific evidences I presented? If so, which one of those you consider to be a lie and dishonesty. Don't just throw rubbish around. That doesn't help anyone here. Your other questions that you asked are not even worth the time to address as they reflect poorly on your caliber and show your ignorance of other faiths besides Christianity (might be the only thing you know of and hence your anger at anything besides that which you figured has its own issues).

          March 23, 2014 at 10:26 pm |
        • Bob

          islamistheanswer, stop your cowardly, despicable dodging and try instead to respond what is being asked of you. It is very specific, and if you cannot answer directly, you have no case to make for your religion, so you should cease spamming this board, if you even have a modicum of fortitude.

          Again, your claims of science in the Quran and other claims about your crazy, violent religion range from specious to outright lies. If your Quran is such a book of science, then state based on it what you think that the eight lowest energy levels of the plutonium atom are, in eV units please.

          And no, you have not presented any valid proof or evidence whatsoever, despite your (dishonest) claims to the contrary, that your nasty sky fairy AKA Allah exists, which is a good thing since he seems to be a violent, murderous ass hole just like his many terrorist followers. Islam is mainly a religion of violence, as can clearly be seen from recent history. If you claim otherwise on that one, then present what you did to protest that terrorism, with citations.

          We are waiting. Answer up, and be direct. The questions are clear and specific. No more dodging, you coward, or we will be back to cite you for it.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:41 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Peace Unto you Bob. You are asking for this, so bare with me. Let's begin by setting the rules of the game. First and foremost, it is the policy of this forum to respect other participants and you are obviously not abiding by that so I urge you to exercise patience when dealing with the "terrorist" and the "ignorant" for you are the better person and not use foul language. As I mentioned before, it just reflects poorly on you. Thank you.

          1. I didn't claim the Quran to be a book of science and no one will ever claim that. It is not. It is a book that guides humanity to the Creator! The scientific evidences that I cite are nothing but examples to show you that this book can't be a product of MAN as you and others claim. Not sure why this bothers you. It is VERY logical and if you say it isn't, you are just contradicting the realities around you. Look around how many Christians and Atheists, Agnostics accept and embrace Islam DAILY. I know it is a bitter reality especially if all you know about Islam comes from the Media and hate talk shows. (Advice here is to educate your self about Islam as you are demonstrating your ignorance of the Quran and the religion). The Quran addresses all aspects of life and among those the creation and the universe in which we live. This is the DIRECT answer to your question. Where is the DIRECT answer to my question to cite a SINGLE scientific revelation that I quoted in this forum and explain what problems you have with it (REFUTE it if you strongly believe that it is not accurate)?

          2. Your usage of words is not appropriate! You used the word "many" to refer to Muslims who are Terrorists. Out of 1.8 Billion Muslims worldwide, we might know of hundreds or thousands but that is in no means MANY. So yes, Islam like other religions have those fanatics who try to use religion to achieve their own gains but that in no way implicate the religion itself. They take verses out of context and mobilize innocent ignorant followers of the faith to execute devious and heinous acts but again this is condemned at all levels. You just chose to hear one side of the story. Based on your rational, heinous and murderous acts thoughout History should have implicate the faith from which the actors come from (i.e. Crusaders and Christianity, Hitler during the world war, etc). This is flawed logic. Think again. Asking me to cite what I did to protest terrorism with citations is like me asking you what you did last week when Malaysian airlines went missing with Citations (bet you started blaming Muslims – random example just to understand what you are asking exactly). My blog was created on March 15th based on reading some comments like yours that are leading to the readers so I wanted to get the truth out about Islam and the teachings of Islam.

          Now, you still owe me a DIRECT answer regarding citing ONE of my comments regarding scientific evidence in the Quran and attempt to show our respected readers any flaws in that..

          March 23, 2014 at 11:08 pm |
        • Bob

          islamistheanswer, again you dodge and squirm. You are a despicable coward. You have been asked some very specific questions science in the Quran, and rather than answer, you cowardly dodge all over again. Enough already. Try to find the courage to respond directly. If you cannot answer directly, you have no case to make for your religion, so you should cease spamming this board.

          Now show some guts for a change and answer up, coward:

          Your claims of science in the Quran and other claims about your crazy, violent religion range from specious to outright lies. If your Quran is such a book of science, then state based on it what you think that the eight lowest energy levels of the plutonium atom are, in eV units please.

          And no, you have not presented any valid proof or evidence whatsoever, despite your (dishonest) claims to the contrary, that your nasty sky fairy AKA Allah exists, which is a good thing since he seems to be a violent, murderous ass hole just like his many terrorist followers. Islam is mainly a religion of violence, as can clearly be seen from recent history. If you claim otherwise on that one, then present what you did to protest that terrorism, with citations.

          We are waiting. Answer up, and be direct. The questions are clear and specific. No more dodging, you coward of your religion of terror, or we will be back to cite you for it.

          March 23, 2014 at 11:23 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Will leave it to the readers to judge who is dodging the questions. I DID answer your questions but based on your question, I asked whether you examined ANY of my scientific evidences so that you call them a lie and dishonest! I will help you nonetheless. I will repost one of them HERE and I want you to have the courage to have a civilized debate/discussion.

          March 23, 2014 at 11:36 pm |
        • Bob

          iita, coward, the questions are precisely stated and clear. You, coward, are obviously dodging them. So, coward, do try to find the guts to answer directly. You can try to go on spamming here prodigiously, and trying to dodge, but the internet is patient, and you have already been caught in your dirty tricks.

          Your claims of science in the Quran and other claims about your crazy, violent religion range from specious to outright lies. If your Quran is such a book of science, then state based on it what you think that the eight lowest energy levels of the plutonium atom are, in eV units please.

          And no, you have not presented any valid proof or evidence whatsoever, despite your (dishonest) claims to the contrary, that your nasty sky fairy AKA Allah exists, which is a good thing since he seems to be a violent, murderous ass hole just like his many terrorist followers. Islam is mainly a religion of violence, as can clearly be seen from recent history. If you claim otherwise on that one, then present what you did to protest that terrorism, with citations.

          We are waiting. Answer up, and be direct. The questions are clear and specific. No more dodging, coward.

          March 24, 2014 at 12:10 am |
        • islamistheanswer

          I am yet to see someone online who is outraged as you are about religion. Unless something bad happened to you because of religion, I don't understand why one could be this .....

          March 24, 2014 at 12:31 am |
        • Doris

          Bob is right, islamabot. You are avoiding the questions. So obvious.

          March 24, 2014 at 12:51 am |
        • Bob

          Yep. Doris, looks like the islamabot twins have been frustrated in their attempts to con more people with their particular god fraud and have gone quiet. Our cowardly islamabot in this thread left with yet another dodge, avoiding the questions again. Well, like I said, the internet is patient:

          islamistheanswer, stop your cowardly, despicable dodging and try instead to respond to what is being asked of you. It is very specific, and if you cannot answer directly, you have no case to make for your religion, so you should cease spamming this board, if you even have a modicum of fortitude.

          Again, your claims of science in the Quran and other claims about your crazy, violent religion range from specious to outright lies. If your Quran is such a book of science, then state based on it what you think that the eight lowest energy levels of the plutonium atom are, in eV units please.

          And no, you have not presented any valid proof or evidence whatsoever, despite your (dishonest) claims to the contrary, that your nasty sky fairy AKA Allah exists, which is a good thing since he seems to be a violent, murderous ass hole just like his many terrorist followers. Islam is mainly a religion of violence, as can clearly be seen from recent history. If you claim otherwise on that one, then present what you did to protest that terrorism, with citations. Doc V also presents many instances of awful violence directly caused by your religion in other comments here.

          We are waiting. Answer up, and be direct. The questions are clear and specific. No more dodging, you coward, or we will be back to cite you for it.

          March 26, 2014 at 9:14 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Real arrogance is thinking you and the creator of the universe are personal friends.

      March 23, 2014 at 11:01 am |
      • bostontola

        And then there's the Judeo-Christian arrogance that God loves us more than all other life, which is for humans to do with as they please. Sheesh.

        March 23, 2014 at 11:06 am |
      • ddeevviinn

        Hey Cheese

        I find this statement very interesting, That someone who dismisses the very notion of the existence of a Creator, nevertheless has formulated a preconceived idea of how that Creator should interact ( or not ) with His created beings. It only becomes "arrogance" when one has defined God as some abstract, non-personal being.

        "Greater love has no one than this , that someone lay down his life for his friends... I have called you my friends, for all that I have heard from my father I have made known to you."

        – Jesus Christ.

        March 23, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
        • sam stone

          iron age hearsay......very convincing

          March 23, 2014 at 5:52 pm |
        • ddeevviinn

          tiresome cliches ... very ineffective.

          March 23, 2014 at 6:04 pm |
        • sam stone

          backatcha, dev

          March 23, 2014 at 7:16 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "I find this statement very interesting, That someone who dismisses the very notion of the existence of a Creator, nevertheless has formulated a preconceived idea of how that Creator should interact ( or not ) with His created beings."

          First I don't dismiss the "very notion" of a creator. It is possible .... but there is no reason to come to that conclusion. Nothing I said pointed to a "preconeived" idea of how a creator should interact. But yes the Christian idea of a personal god I do find absurd....and short of objective confirmation I think it is arrogant to think one knows what form the creator takes, what that creator likes and doesn't like and that such a creator...the one you just happened to be born into the culture of...is your personal friend. This shouldn't be news to you.

          "It only becomes "arrogance" when one has defined God as some abstract, non-personal being."

          No, it becomes arrogant to think you have it right and everyone else is wrong when you can't objectively demonstrate your god any more than believers of other gods can. You all have the same unvarifiable garbage arguments.

          March 23, 2014 at 8:32 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "Greater love has no one than this , that someone lay down his life for his friends... I have called you my friends, for all that I have heard from my father I have made known to you."

          – Jesus Christ.

          I have no reason to believe Jesus said this, I have no reason to believe any quote attributed to Jesus.

          There is so much wrong

          March 23, 2014 at 8:44 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        " Real arrogance is thinking you and the creator of the universe are personal friends."

        It seems to me that the implication here is that a Creator would never choose to interact on a personal level with his created beings, and to think that He would smacks of arrogance.

        "No, it becomes arrogant when you think you have it right and everyone else is wrong."

        And precisely what adjective would you use to describe your much in the minority held belief that theists are wrong and you are right? See how this works?

        " Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

        – Socrates

        I have no reason to believe Socrates said this. I have no reason to believe any quote attributed to Socrates, apart from the fact that we have written historical texts indicating he did so. As with Jesus.

        March 23, 2014 at 11:36 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          “It seems to me that the implication here is that a Creator would never choose to interact on a personal level with his created beings, and to think that He would smacks of arrogance.”

          I don’t know if a creator would choose to interact with individuals or not but it is rather like arguing whether bigfoot would choose to have personal interactions with specific individuals, until there is verifiable proof of bigfoot, people who claim that they have a personal relationship with bigfoot sound silly. Now make it the creator of the entire universe…starts to sound a bit arrogant.

          “And precisely what adjective would you use to describe your much in the minority held belief that theists are wrong and you are right? See how this works?”

          I don’t know if I am right or not but I don’t believe the Christian claim so the adjective I would use to describe my position is “unconvinced”. And the last time you and I interacted devin, the discussion ended with a question to you on your often used statements that I am in the minority being an atheist. It has been pointed out that this is an argument from popularity and is therefore a fallacious point. You said that is not what you are arguing but did not have time to explain why….how about now?

          As to Socrates….no one is claiming Socrates is god, no one is claiming Socrates created the entire universe and was sacrificed for the sins of the world. Whether Socrates ever actually lived or not would not have worldwide implications. No one is claiming they have a personal relationship with Socrates. No one is claiming this country is a based on Socrates. It is a very poor comparison.

          March 24, 2014 at 1:02 am |
        • G to the T

          "It seems to me that the implication here is that a Creator would never choose to interact on a personal level with his created beings, and to think that He would smacks of arrogance."

          Assumption. There's nothing that necessarily says that if a god created the universe he had any involvement in the creation of life on earth and/or the development of mankind. These are separate questions.

          March 26, 2014 at 7:42 pm |
    • Akira

      Believers are now to be held above questions and criticism. Got it.

      March 23, 2014 at 11:35 am |
    • nepawoods

      "If the father if the Big Bang Theory is open to the event being by caused by God (or another higher intellect), why are his followers so vocally averse to the notion?"

      Not sure I'd like to single out one person as the "father" of the theory, but whoever it may be (I'd say Lemaitre, if I had to choose), science doesn't work on the basis of leaders and followers, so your question makes no sense. Theories stand on their own merit.

      The aversion is to any claim made with zero evidence or rational argument. In the case of this article, the aversion is to fallacious and perhaps deliberately deceitful reasoning.

      March 23, 2014 at 11:35 am |
    • colin31714

      The "Father of the Big Bang Theory". Fred Hoyle? Are you serious? Hoyle never accepted the big bang theory. He proposed an alternative called "steady state" and engaged in a life long battle against the big bang theory. In fact, he was the person who came up with the name "Big Bang" as a derisive epithet for the theory (in a radio interview on the BBC in 1949 , just FYI).

      Hoyle could not come to grips with the idea of a Universe having a discrete commencement, and died in 2001 still rejecting the Big Bang. He was widely regarded as being blind to facts that pretty much torpedoed his steady state theory and as arrogant for his inability to change his views.

      In fact, I suspect, but do not know, that the quote this silly woman used in support of her "God of the Gaps" article was meant by Hoyle as a reason to reject the Big Bang- i.e. it was just so silly to think that a super-intellect monkeyed with physics that one should reject the Big Bang on this basis. She is effectively citing one of history's staunchest opponents of the views she espouses in support of them.

      There is just so much else wrong with this puerile article that that clanger is lost in the noise.

      March 23, 2014 at 11:39 am |
      • bostontola

        I think he meant Lemaitre.

        March 23, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • colin31714

          How u getting that? Is he replying to another comment, because only Hoyle is mentioned in the article?

          March 23, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
    • basehitter

      What could be more arrogant than believing atheists deserve to burn in hell ?

      March 23, 2014 at 11:51 am |
      • islamistheanswer

        Ever heard of retribution! You 2 year old son/daughter knows what that is! Well, not only Atheists go to hell, others including Muslims who are not adherents go to hell TOO! That I call FAIRNESS!

        March 23, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          Retribution for what?

          March 23, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Do you live by the principal of reward for hard work? Do you reward your child for doing a phenomenal job at school? Does he/she get grounded for doing something really bad? Now, it is subjective what the reward or the retribution is but everyone seems to live by those principles. When your 1 year old is hits a night stand or the edge of a coffee table, they cry! If you were to hit that table because it was the "cause" of the pain the child is going through, they stop crying. It is natural my friend! Similarly, you have the choice and full control of what what to do in life but you are told through God's messengers who were sent proofs through the revelations that it is from God, you need to be conscious of the Creator! You chose not to, you are punished based on your choice.

          I will say this once again. God's being(who he is) is beyond our realizations and that is veiled from us through His attributes (all hearing, all knowing, etc). Those attributes in turn are veiled from us through His actions. The messengers and the revelations are examples of those actions in addition to the creation around you.

          Enjoy your choice to the fullest!

          March 23, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • otoh2

          islamis,

          Interesting that your "God" is as hateful, nasty and vengeful as you are.

          There is not a shred of verified evidence that any such things as you fantasize about actually happen.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Hateful? Nasty? Vengeful? All of this because your intelligence is challenged and your logic is put on check! Keep uttering the rubbish the God doesn't exist but if I were you I would have the courage all the evidence I presented in this forum.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • igaftr

          islamistheanswer.
          Yeah...wrong answers are answers too.

          You have not presented any evidence of any gods. You have parroted the same trite things, but never once shown any gods to exist.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Would you please help me and the readers here in understanding how to prove the existence of God? I am curious as to the methodology you require to prove the existence of God. Is this universal to all Atheists? In other words, who gets to define the methodology in proving that God exists? You are probably seeing where I am going with this but I have to ask nonetheless.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • otoh2

          islamis,

          A real god would know **precisely** how to provide satisfactory evidence to everyone.

          Frankly, you are getting out of the bounds of civility here. Keep it up, though; it's a very effective method to drive people away from your hideous fantasies and superst.itions.

          March 23, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Laughing out loud! Throughout my discussions with you in particular, you have shown that you are incapable to respond to anything that challenges you. Now, you say that I am getting out of the bounds of civility! Mind to elaborate why you said that? All I hear from you and other Atheists that there is no God and continue to echo that without addressing any points presented here.

          At least for me, I introduce others to concepts they never knew existed (concepts that challenge you) but you add nothing beyond a statement that God doesn't exist (people learn nothing from that).

          March 23, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Forgot to mention, how naive of you to think that a real God would know **precisely** how to provide satisfactory evidence to everyone! God, with His Majesty and Glory, created us at a status higher than other creations and chose us to be the once with reason and brains. His revelations take that into account. He doesn't treat us like "dummies" (as you would like Him to do) but He chooses to treat us at a level that is befitting of our intellect and capabilities. What do I mean by that? First, let me ask you to be honest with your self whether you know anything about Islam. Folks here need to stop to extrapolate what they know about Christianity to other religions and assume that they apply. Islam for one has a BOOK that has scientific evidences that are validated by SCIENCE today. The process of figuring out that God exist is simple. IF we prove that the content in the Quran that is sent from God is accurate and has prophecies and scientific evidence that is corroborated by scientific discoveries today, then it suffices as an evidence that is a book from God. Unlike the Bible that has many contradictions (both scientific and historical), the Quran has none of those and CHALLENGES you and others for 1400 years to prove otherwise – I guess no one has been able to do that yet.

          March 23, 2014 at 9:25 pm |
        • igaftr

          You are the one claiming your beliefs are the answer ( to what no one knows), you claim there is allah, you claim to have presented evicence.
          Just answering YOUR claims.

          Why don't you simply admit that you have absolutely NO evidence of any gods, you have no idea if your religion is true, and that all religions are nothing more than what MEN made up as if to speak for "god" when they have no idea if there are any gods to begin with.
          All religions are completely baseless in the FACT that NONE can show any gods. Men have a longhistry of creating gods in answer to his own ignorance. Your god is the same.

          March 23, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          I am claiming that my beliefs are the answers and have been providing you with the rational and logic of why that is the case. I am yet to see you challenge anyone of the points I made so far! You haven't done that nor will you attempt them because all what you are capable of is reiterate your empty statement that "God doesn't exist" without any evidence or proof to support your claim.

          As for having no idea that my religion is true, it seems that you are speaking about your self. You have no idea why you exist and the silly part is that you try to convince yourself daily that you existence is just a mere coincidence. As for me and other believers (Muslims, Christians and Jews), our existence is for a purpose. A clear purpose in face – to worship our Creator and as successors strive for success and build this planet and beyond.

          Again, I am addressing you and others here. If you don't know about Islam (religion of Islam, not the acts of some Muslims), then it is not a shame to say so and seek the knowledge so that you debate its validity or authenticity. You come across as ignorant when you use Christianity to speak of other religions (that completely differ with Christianity in terms of the Creed). I tell you that the Bible and the old testament have contradictions in them because MEN wrote some of it. The books haven't been preserved. However, I tell you that the QURAN is a preserved word of God and until you show that there are contradictions within that book or with SCIENCE, then you shouldn't keep uttering that it is a book made up by MEN (don't speak in that which you have no knowledge of!).

          I have shown in this forum staggering evidence that the QURAN is the word of GOD and hence GOD does exist. Please go over my older posts and respond with lucid arguments instead of just adding no value to the conversation. My methodology is simple. SCIENCE is our biggest lead today. SINCE the QURAN predicted a lot of the scientific breakthroughs we have today (given the circu-mstances in which it was revealed and what was available to humanity back then), then it can't be the words of MEN but rather of a Supreme Being and hence God Exists. This I call LOGIC. I am not sure what you call your methodology in determining the existence of God. You care to share with us?

          March 23, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
        • otoh2

          islamis,
          "you have shown that you are incapable to respond to anything that challenges you."

          - I have responded to you with facts... and your (and your religion's) lack of them and the rubber-reality stretches that you make to manipulate them to suit your 'cause'.

          -------------------------------------

          "Now, you say that I am getting out of the bounds of civility! Mind to elaborate why you said that?"

          - Deeming and declaring that everyone who doesn't believe exactly as **you** do is doomed to some kind of eternal hell is desp.icable, not to mention unverifiable.

          March 23, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          To add value to me and the rest of the readers, please be more specific and mention a SINGLE response in which you responded to my comments with FACTs and I failed to do the same. Stop being va.g.ue and be specific so that you we understand what you are talking about. All the comments/points I have made so far have gone unanswered or conveniently skipped (for lack of logical response). Please share with us one example to clarify further that you have been answering with FACTS?

          As for being out of the bounds of civility. It is ironic that believers are not ent.itled to their opinions in the eyes of people like your self. Why does it bother you that I BELIEVE that you will be doomed to eternal hell if you don't believe in that? You are ent.itled to your belief and I am ent.itled to mine! We can and should respect each other's beliefs and opinions otherwise this discussion goes no where. Just because I have a certain belief don't give you the right to content that I am out of the bounds of civility and that this belief is des-p-icable. Have I called your belief as such?

          Above is assuming that this is what I believe. Actually I don't! Even though I categorize myself as a "believer," being on this path is a struggle as believers know and I pray day and night to God to make me among those who stead fast to this belief and conviction. Only ALLAH knows if you or others will die on the state of belief and conviction and whether I will go stray at later stages in life. That is only known to ALLAH who knows the unseen! So I will leave it at that. May ALLAH Guide us all that that which is RIGHT.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          @islamistheanswer,
          So, if I understand correctly, you are saying the retribution is for not submitting to God's (Allah's) rules, correct? If you are saying that God should be obeyed simply because He is God, then that is arbitrary morality/justice, which is not moral or just. If however, you are saying that God should be obeyed because His rules are morally right, then it is the morality that should be followed, regardless of God's opinion, because God Himself recognizes a higher morality than Himself.

          March 23, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          "I am curious as to the methodology you require to prove the existence of God."

          Showing up and saying "I am God" would be a start.

          March 23, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          You seem to have come from a Christian background where God can be a "Man" (Exalted is he from such an analogy). From a logical perspective (enlightening too), The Creator is beyond our realizations. Why do I say this? Simple, have you seen this image that compares the earth with other ent.ities in our orbital system; another image with that compared to our galaxy; another with that in the milky way; another within our universe. If you have seen those images, you would understand the vastness of the creation (I believe Earth was like a dot in the whole image – almost nonexistent). Now, assume with me for a second that God exists (I firmly believe He does) for the sake of argument. How much larger, bigger would you expect Him to be compared to the images we just drew on how the earth is compared to other creations that we have DISCOVER (let a lone those we haven't yet discovered).. This gives you a perspective of how GREAT He is! Now, with that being said, it is not BEFITTING for Him to show up to Mr. MidwestKen to prove he EXISTS (His creation and his revelation that corroborate this greatness and creation have already proved His existence).

          Now let me share with you an Islamic Perspective on this. ALLAH (God) describes himself in the Holy Quran as: " There is nothing LIKE the LIKE of Him" which tells us that anything we imagine about GOD is NOT like Him (let alone Him coming in a form of man/creation, exalted is He). This answers Christianity that Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is the Son of GOD because it is an illogical notion – our logic and intellect doesn't accept it. Below is an excerpt of an earlier post I had to clarify on this:

          The faith demystified: creator is ONE who guided humanity through the messengers and the Prophets he sent throughout history, Mohammed Peace and Blessings be Upon him being the last messenger/Prophet with a message that is universal to the whole of humanity. Why does God send us messengers and not come directly to us? Exalted is He! He is nothing like his creatures (logical to think so). The creator of anything is nothing like His/Her creature (Isn't this the same with anything around us: an inventor is nothing like his/her invention but rather at a level higher both in traits and attributes).God presides in a dimension that is befitting of HIS Majesty; a dimension that is beyond our 4 dimensional physical realization (3 dimensions with time as the fourth dimension). God is the same way (In the quran he says in describing himself "There is nothing LIKE the LIKE of HIM"). (Note that science shows us that there are universes with up to 11 dimensions which is humbling so to think of God, he ought to be beyond those universes altogether so we shouldn't expect him to come in the form of man)

          With that in mind, we know God through HIS actions in our Universe. His Actions do VEIL his Attributes and Characteristics and those in turn VEIL HIS being from us (that which is beyond our dimensional limitations and normal comprehension)..

          Hope this helps!

          March 23, 2014 at 10:19 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Answer a few questions for me if you would.
          1. How many lies would you say you’ve told in your life?
          2. Have you ever stolen anything regardless of its value?
          3. Have you ever used God’s name as a curse word? (called blasphemy)
          4.have you ever looked at a woman/man lustfully?(if so, Jesus said you have committed adultery with that person in your heart.)
          If you’re like me, you are a self professed lying, stealing, blaspheming adulterer at heart or some form thereof. A holy God must punish wickedness, otherwise He wouldn’t be just. Given your confession, will you be guilty or innocent? If you’re like me and everyone else on this board, you are guilty. However, God provided a way for salvation through the blood of His innocent Son who took the punishment on the cross, that we might be declared innocent. Think of it like this. You’re in a court room. you’re guilty as you’ve professed. Someone walks in and pays your fine for you. Now the judge can legally dismiss your case and let you go. This is the gospel message. What you must do is repent (turn from your sins) and follow Jesus as Lord. This following is enabled by God when He gives you new desires and a heart that wants to please God instead of the flesh.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:18 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          truthfollower01, Thank you for your questions! Every human being sins and that is not a secret for the Creator! He created us and knows of our Shortcomings. As such, we are not expected to be perfect but we strive for perfection by abiding by that which is good for us and restraining and abstaining from that which is harmful. Please read my comments about Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him) in Islam and a Video also that discusses why Islam venerates Jesus as a Prophet of God and not a son of God. There are a lot of similarities between the faiths (as ought to be coming from the same God) but we differ on whether Jesus has any divinity. I urge to read the post though to learn what Islam says about Jesus (Peace and Blessings be upon him).

          March 23, 2014 at 10:29 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          How many acts of genocide have you committed or ordered?

          March 23, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
        • igaftr

          belieffollower
          " Think of it like this. You’re in a court room. you’re guilty as you’ve professed. Someone walks in and pays your fine for you. Now the judge can legally dismiss your case and let you go"

          Exactly why christians can not be trusted. they think it is OK for someone else to pay for their transgressions, and if someone else makes rest!tution, then no harm no foul....immoral religion.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          I have categorically described how Islam rejects this notion altogether (anything that is illogical is questionable and should be examined as encouraged by Islam).

          March 23, 2014 at 10:33 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Iga,

          Your statement is a non sequitur. Also, there is no real morality on atheism. What basis do you give for determining what is morally wrong or morally right.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          tf,

          I don't think you have any idea of what a "non-sequitor" is.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
        • igaftr

          belieffollower
          Christianity is based on the premise that someone else will take your just punishment.
          Why do you hate your Jesus so much that you would allow him to be punished for YOUR actions.

          We go out of our way in this country to try to insure the guilty get punished, and the innocent go free. OUR society tells us that it is not moral to allow someone else to act as a stand in for a crime. If you commit murder, you cannot say, yes I did it, but my brother here has volunteered to do my time. THAT is immoral, and yet it is what you are doing in christianity...allowing another to stand in your place.

          How is it moral for you to put YOUR punishment on someone else, when you have the CHOICE to not allow it?
          Why do you hate Jesus so much that you would allow him to suffer YOUR punishment. If you loved him, you would not allow it.

          Even if Christ came to me right now, and proved he is what the christians claim him to be, MY morality does not allow me to have anyone stand for my transgressions, and shame on you for CHOOSING to punish another.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Islam AGREES!

          March 23, 2014 at 10:41 pm |
        • LinCA

          @islamistheanswer

          You said, "Ever heard of retribution! You 2 year old son/daughter knows what that is! Well, not only Atheists go to hell, others including Muslims who are not adherents go to hell TOO! That I call FAIRNESS!"
          If your imaginary friend would punish someone for using his brain, it is not worthy of any worship. It is a tyrant and its followers nothing but sheep for slaughter.

          Luckily for us all, there is no difference between your god and other imaginary creatures. Your god is just as likely to be real as the Easter Bunny. Your beliefs are no more rational than those of a five year old in the Tooth Fairy. It's amusing for a child to believe such nonsense, but it's pathetic for adults.

          You should consider growing up.

          March 23, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I have said this many times and it is becoming boring! Don't address Islam from your knowledge of Christianity. They are two different religions for the record. Your judgement that Islam and ALLAH would punish you for using your brain is based on mere speculation, ignorance and assumption. The BRAIN is a valued part of our creation and we are encouraged to think and pursue knowledge in this life. As a matter of fact, I have grown up after I advanced in worldly knowledge and USED my brain. If you don't know about Islam, then learn about it to understand and be able to at least speak out of knowledge, not just opinion by association (that is to Christianity).

          March 23, 2014 at 10:38 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          IGA,

          If someone chose to die for you out of love, you would hate that person? Wow.

          "THAT is immoral,"

          You still didn't answer my previous question. On atheism, why is it immoral? Who says it is?

          "when you have the CHOICE to not allow it?"

          How do I have a choice not to allow it? Jesus has already paid with His life. He WILLINGLY did this by His choice. You make it sound like He was forced to!

          March 23, 2014 at 4:00 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "On atheism, why is it immoral? Who says it is?"

          First...as you have been told repeatedly atheism does not speak to morality...of course neither does your version of Christianity.

          Second...if you act and behave because you were told to by some perceived authority you are not practicing morality...you are practicing obedience.

          March 23, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
        • igaftr

          belieffollower
          "If someone chose to die for you out of love, you would hate that person? Wow."

          When did I ever say or imply anything like that?

          Certainly the person offering to make the sacrifice is not at issue. YOU are.

          You are the one CHOOSING to allow it, like a coward. You are to afraid to face the consequences of your own actions.
          I said nothing about the Jesus character.
          I said that CHRISTIANS are immoral, not your Christ.

          It is YOUR choice to allow Christ to suffer for your sins, right?
          You can CHOOSE to not accept his sacrifice. It is not like the veterans who gave their lives for our freedom, there I had no choice, and offered to this nation the same offer, fortunately surviving.
          Christ did not suffer for the sins of ALL mankind, just the ones who accept him as their personal insurance policy, redeemable in the "afterlife".

          Christians are immoral in thinking that someone else can suffer for their transgressions. Itis one of the biggest of the many gaping holes in the dogma, but cleraly shows immorality.

          Society sets the morality standards, as can be seen in your book. There were many things in your book that are not considered moral, but are in your bible. There are many things in your bible that are immoral and are still practiced today, such as a woman being forced to marry her ra.p.ist, since apparently the "stain" of her no being a virgin is far worse than ra.p.e...all the ra.p.ist has to do is pay 50 sheckles of silver and the victim is then forced to marry her attacker...is THAT moral...of course not, but it IS IN YOUR BOOK, and is still practiced today in Morocco.
          The society in the day when MEN wrote your book, was different than today, but we still do not let one person take the punishment for another. It iosn't just me saying this, it is the way the court system works in this and MANY other countires.

          How exactly is it moral for you to allow another to take your punishmnet, when you can choose not to allow it?

          March 23, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          IGA,

          "How exactly is it moral for you to allow another to take your punishmnet, when you can choose not to allow it?"

          To make sure I understand this. Jesus willingly chose to die for me out of love. You're saying the better option is to reject that sacrifice (doesn't change the fact that Jesus died)? If someone chose to die for you, you're saying the morally right thing to do is to reject that sacrifice (doesn't change the fact that the person has died)?

          "You are the one CHOOSING to allow it"

          It has already happened.

          "Society sets the morality standards,"

          So if you grew up in Nazi Germany and were taught that the Jewish people were less than human and that exterminating them was morally good, then according to your criteria, this would be morally good?

          March 23, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • igaftr

          belieffollower
          Ypu are clearly someone who has lost the ability to reason, and haven't learned how not to be offensive. You are clearly twisting my words into pretzels, and not hearing what I say, but instead, you are hearing what you want to hear.

          Thank you for showing your christian immorality even more though. I realize that christians have to learn to twist their bible into something more palletable, but you twist the meaning of my words so badly, you aren't worth my time.

          I hope you join us in reality.

          You should change your name, since you do not know truth, and certainly don't follow it.
          All you have is belief, and you want your belief to be true.

          March 23, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          IGA, I am not at all trying to rude and have been responding honestly. Where have I been dishonest? I have responded based on how I am understanding your accusations. I do not see anything immoral with accepting Jesus's sacrifice and have presented responses to display this. In addition, on atheism, there is no grounds for accusing anything of being morally good or bad.

          March 23, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          IGA,

          The existence of objective morality is evidence of God's existence. Objective morality is morality that is valid and binding, independent of personal opinion. As an example, to say that the Holocaust is objectively morally evil is to say that it is evil even though the Nazis who carried it out thought that it was morally good. Even if the Nazis had won World War II and either killed all opposers or brainwashed everyone into believing that the Holocaust was morally good, it would still be morally evil.

          March 23, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          So if you grew up in ancient Isreal and were taught that the Amalekites were less than human and that exterminating them was morally good, then according to your criteria, this would be morally good?

          March 23, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Islam abolished discrimination based on race, age, gender, religion, etc 1400 years ago.. Most civilizations (let's take America for example while it is not a civilization, had segregation and discrimination against Blacks and Colored people until the 60s). This is not to say that what ancient Israel did was right. Actually the Quran condemns what was done and reaffirms that what was done was NOT a revelation from God but rather the word of God was altered to serve certain groups who manipulated the scripture!

          March 23, 2014 at 11:15 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          As an example, to say that the genocide of the Amalekites is objectively morally evil is to say that it is evil even though the Isrealites who carried it out thought that it was morally good. Just because the Irealites won the War and either killed all opposers or brainwashed everyone into believing that the genocide of the Amalekites was morally good, it is still morally evil.

          March 23, 2014 at 5:43 pm |
        • sam stone

          truthfollower: are you the reincarnation of topher/gopher? he has used the same lines

          March 23, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
        • sam stone

          the more you look at truthfollower's words, the more they remind you of topher/gopher. i was wondering when he would slither back in here

          March 23, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          iita
          "...how naive of you to think that a real God would know **precisely** how to provide satisfactory evidence to everyone!"

          An omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent god would know everything and could do anything. I'm not too familiar with Islam but as it is an offshoot of the Judeo-Christian beliefs, I'm pretty confident that those attributes are claimed for your god.

          March 23, 2014 at 9:40 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          You are right! Those attributes are the same as in Judeo-Christian beliefs. The response to the precision of God to show us the evidence was illustrated in my earlier response. I shared the following video before, and it seems to be in order given the questions here. The purpose of life. Please watch it. It cites some scientific evidences in the Quran and the different Signs of His existence.

          http://youtu.be/7d16CpWp-ok

          March 23, 2014 at 11:24 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          iita, Believers are the ones making the claim of a god and so they are the ones that need to provide the evidence. There is no evidence outside of religious texts and our modern knowledge shows that the creation myths of all religions are not correct, so as their foundational texts are incorrect, religions offer nothing to support the idea of a god. Those texts after all are the god's credentials. No credentials; no personal god.
          So if you have any objective evidence outside of the Koran, please share.

          March 23, 2014 at 9:46 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          The credentials are the evidence. Please check my earlier comments for more details. The simple logical response is that the QURAN has shown to address the different discoveries of our COSMOS and Universe. This in addition to many other prophecies in the Quran show clearly that it is the book of God and that the words are the words of GOD. I have made the claim clearly that God exists, I have shown in this forum and none but this forum the different miracles of the Quran which directly attest to the existence of God. If you choose to ignore these evidences, it is up to you. The texts that you are familiar with are texts that have contradicitions clearly because they were written by MEN and we can expect nothing more than that. The QURAN however is a preserved book since the revelation to Prophet Mohammed (Peace and Blessings be upon him) until today. Would you please go back and check out some of the evidences I mentioned. IF you prefer, I can paste those here. Let me know. Also, does this logic seem reasonable to you in proving that God EXISTS?

          March 23, 2014 at 10:00 pm |
        • Doris

          tf: "The existence of objective morality is evidence of God's existence."

          Uh – no. You haven't proved either one, so your argument is silly.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:18 pm |
        • Doris

          islam, a preserved book is still just a book. not good enough to prove a deity. besides the overall idea isn't that original. it may give a hint at the kinds of speculation people had in the time when it is believed that the book came from, but proof of anything? no.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:23 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Doris, of all here you are probably the most who have "read" (so I hope) my comments. Just because the book is preserved, is not a proof of God. The Content of the book is what I contend to be the PROOF that you are asking about!

          March 23, 2014 at 10:31 pm |
        • Doris

          islam – the content are merely written words. if, by what you mean is what the words mean or claim, then you have to back up those words with something that is convincing. alone they are not convincing at all.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:49 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Care to cite an example. I am hoping we stop just talking in general terms and be specific so that more elaboration becomes a requirement on my part to clarify and impart on the meanings of those words.

          March 23, 2014 at 11:10 pm |
        • LinCA

          @islamistheanswer

          You said, "Don't address Islam from your knowledge of Christianity."
          I don't. I address both from my knowledge of religion.

          You said, "They are two different religions for the record."
          They are virtually identical. They both are based on the core belief in an imaginary creature. That there are slightly different fairy tales spun around that core belief is simply a matter of geography and interpretation.

          You said, "Your judgement that Islam and ALLAH would punish you for using your brain is based on mere speculation, ignorance and assumption."
          No, you made that perfectly clear. It was you who claimed that per your fairy tale atheists would end up in hell. That can only mean that if you truly use your brain, per islam, you will end up in hell if you use your brain. Because, anyone who uses his or her brain will reject the complete abject nonsense of religion and become an atheist. If you rationally evaluate religion, it is inevitable. It is the only logical outcome.

          You said, "As a matter of fact, I have grown up after I advanced in worldly knowledge and USED my brain."
          Then I suggest you use it a little more and evaluate the bullshit you call your religion. Use it to rationally evaluate the case for your imaginary friend. Use it to look into the origins of your god and the "prophets" that blathered about it.

          You said, "If you don't know about Islam, then learn about it to understand and be able to at least speak out of knowledge, not just opinion by association (that is to Christianity)."
          I know enough about islam to know that is is a cancer on society. I know enough about it to realize that the sooner we rid the world of this plague, the better. At least christianity seems to have moved past the most violent and primitive parts. If you want to truly fuck up a society, all you need to do is introduce it to islam.

          March 23, 2014 at 11:42 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Not sure where your knowledge of religion came from but unless you have knowledge of all religions, you shouldn't generalize and imply that you know about Islam based on your knowledge of religion (can you please answer directly whether you have knowledge of Islam).

          You claim that two religions are virtually the same. This conclusion is yet another sign of ignorance and mere assumption. I have presented scientific proof in this forum that dazzled humanity in the 21st century, you choose to ignore that and categorically classify the Quran as a fairytale.

          Please read my comment about our affairs and that the knowledge of who is guided and who goes to heaven and how goes to hell lies with the Creator, not me or any other creature!

          You make the arrogant assertion that anyone who uses his brain automatically realizes that no God exists. I use the humble assertion that the existence is NATURAL given the signs around us. I provide proofs that the Quran is an authentic book and a book with knowledge that can't come from a human which directly proves existence of God. I would appreciate it if you refute the evidences I presented in this forum instead of talking in general terms.

          Your knowledge of Islam is clearly a knowledge that stems from your favorite tv channels and news outlets, nothing more unless you show otherwise (so far you haven't shown any knowledge pertinent to the religion and the Quran). If this is the same methodology you use to arrive at your beliefs and convictions, you have a far worse issue to worry about than trying to prove the non existence of God.

          March 24, 2014 at 12:27 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "Islam abolished discrimination based on race, age, gender, religion, etc 1400 years ago.. "

          Well if this is true you might want to spend some time filling in your fellow Mulims to this because they haven't gotten the message yet.

          March 23, 2014 at 11:44 pm |
        • islamistheanswer

          Point well taken. I know we have a long way to go in terms of the teachings of Islam and how it relates to society. Thank you!

          March 24, 2014 at 12:29 am |
        • Doris

          "Islam abolished discrimination based on race, age, gender, religion, etc 1400 years ago.. "

          LOL – oh that's rich. Who do you think you're trying to kid, islamabot?

          March 24, 2014 at 12:35 am |
        • Doris

          islamabot: "Care to cite an example. I am hoping we stop just talking in general terms and be specific so that more elaboration becomes a requirement on my part to clarify and impart on the meanings of those words."

          You're the one making generalizations above regarding about the validity of your religion and you're also making generalizations about what you think others know or don't know about Islam. You haven't written one thing to back up those general claims. If you want to talk in circles, fine, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

          March 24, 2014 at 12:49 am |
        • igaftr

          belief follower
          "The existence of objective morality is evidence of God's existence."

          There is one place you are being dishonest, since there are many possibilities OTHER than goddidit to explain why.
          I don't think you are meaning to be dishonest, it's just your religion blinders are limiting what you can see. Your statement above is proof you have lost your critical thinking skills. Religion will do that to you.

          March 24, 2014 at 8:34 am |
        • LinCA

          @islamistheanswer

          You said, "You claim that two religions are virtually the same."
          Is islam not based on a belief in a god for which there is no shred of actual evidence?

          Of course it is. Which makes it virtually the same as christianity. It is just as ridiculous. That the stories spun around that infantile belief are different doesn't make the essence of islam any different.

          It is, in essence, just as large a pile of steaming bullshit. If you want it to be different, you'll have to present verifiable evidence that your god is anything other than the figment of ignorant goat herders of the Bronze Age.

          You said, "This conclusion is yet another sign of ignorance and mere assumption. I have presented scientific proof in this forum that dazzled humanity in the 21st century, you choose to ignore that and categorically classify the Quran as a fairytale."
          Your "evidence" is nothing more than reciting crap for the writings from your fairy tale. It doesn't constitute evidence. That you are so deluded that you are unable to see that, it at the root of the problem with the religious. They are so desperate to believe their nonsense somehow makes sense that they will reject any rational reading in favor of an interpretation that fits their preconceived notions.

          You said, "Please read my comment about our affairs and that the knowledge of who is guided and who goes to heaven and how goes to hell lies with the Creator, not me or any other creature!"
          If I want to read fiction, there are far better books available. I really don't need to read the drivel from your pedophile mohammed (may he rot in hell, should there be such a place).

          You said, "You make the arrogant assertion that anyone who uses his brain automatically realizes that no God exists."
          It's not arrogant. If you honestly evaluate religion, including yours, you will come to the inevitable conclusion that the god at the core is nothing but primitive man's explanation for things he couldn't grasp. If you honestly evaluate religion, including yours, you will come to the inevitable conclusion that the holy books are nothing bu ancient folklore.

          If you honestly evaluate religion, including yours, you will come to the inevitable conclusion that it is all bullshit.

          You said, "I use the humble assertion that the existence is NATURAL given the signs around us."
          You are clearly incapable of grasping what it means for something to be evidence. There are no signs anywhere that are evidence that there are any gods.

          You said, "I provide proofs that the Quran is an authentic book and a book with knowledge that can't come from a human which directly proves existence of God."
          Your interpretation doesn't constitute evidence.

          You said, "I would appreciate it if you refute the evidences I presented in this forum instead of talking in general terms."
          I went back a few pages but I can't find a single piece of your fairy that you posted that could even remotely be construed as evidence. Care to post your best piece of what you consider evidence that your god is anything but a figment?

          You said, "Your knowledge of Islam is clearly a knowledge that stems from your favorite tv channels and news outlets, nothing more unless you show otherwise (so far you haven't shown any knowledge pertinent to the religion and the Quran)."
          Of course my knowledge of islam is at least in part shaped by what I see and read in the news, but that doesn't mean all of it comes from popular media. That is in part why I know that it is a cancer on society. That is in part why I know that the world would be a far better place if we could rid it of this scourge.

          You said, "If this is the same methodology you use to arrive at your beliefs and convictions, you have a far worse issue to worry about than trying to prove the non existence of God."
          You are clearly not the brightest bulb, are you? I'm not trying to prove the nonexistence of any imaginary creatures. It isn't my job to prove that your imaginary friend doesn't exist. If you want to be taken serious, it is your job to provide evidence for its existence. Without such evidence, I will simply laugh at your ignorance.

          March 24, 2014 at 10:45 am |
        • truthfollower01

          Blessed.

          "As an example, to say that the genocide of the Amalekites is objectively morally evil is to say that it is evil even though the Isrealites who carried it out thought that it was morally good. Just because the Irealites won the War and either killed all opposers or brainwashed everyone into believing that the genocide of the Amalekites was morally good, it is still morally evil."

          I believe we've conversed on this in the past but maybe not (I can't remember who all I have conversed with on the Amalekite situation). Why is God carrying out judgement on the guilty (the Amalekites) morally evil? It's not. I don't see how anything is morally good or evil on atheism anyways.

          March 24, 2014 at 11:46 am |
        • joey3467

          By using genocide as as example of objective morality and not viewing god as immoral when he orders genocide in the Bible you only proving that morality is subjective.

          March 24, 2014 at 1:15 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          Joey, does the Judge act immorally if He carries out justice on the guilty?

          March 24, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
        • observer

          truthfollower01,

          The "Judge" acts immorally when he KILLS people for the "crimes" of not obeying him when he says not to touch something or not to LOOK at something. Same for KILLING dozens of children for teasing a bald-headed man.

          March 24, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
        • truthfollower01

          IGA, I'm starting a new post in response.

          March 24, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "Why is God carrying out judgement on the guilty (the Amalekites) morally evil?"

          First I don't believe god commanded it. I think the Isrealites used god as justification for genocide to claim it was "good". Same thing you said about the Germans...I just changed the players. And genocide is wrong...period. Claiming your god gave the "OK" is the same justification as a suicide bomber uses. You have the morality of a sucide bomber.

          March 24, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
    • tallulah131

      I don't believe in god because there is no proof that a god exists.

      March 23, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
      • letsberealpeople

        Then I assume you do not believe in:
        Existential Truth
        Love
        ...and so much more

        April 25, 2014 at 8:52 pm |
        • Torbjörn Larsson, OM

          "Then I assume you do not believe in:
          Existential Truth
          Love
          …and so much more"

          Why not? We can always check for facts (which gives truth values on parameters of existence) and love (which is an observable behavior). That is how everyone does it by the way.

          May 13, 2014 at 6:50 am |
  9. Vic

    For those who criticize the author and the CNN Belief Blog for publishing this article, you are misinformed.

    This is a belief blog, this is not a science journal. This is one of the places where you show the relationship between science and Faith in God. This is a perfect article by and for the CNN Belief Blog.

    In her profession, Dr. Leslie A. Wickman conducts scientific work professionally like anybody else of the same vocation. She is a well versed scientist who happens to be Christian, and with a Ph.D., she must have dissertated a serious scientific subject that is to the benefit of all.

    Any mistake (as in miss take) on this only shows ignorance.

    Early on:
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/comment-page-16/#comment-2971087

    March 23, 2014 at 10:12 am |
    • midwest rail

      Says the guy who regularly misrepresents science AND scientific opinion.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:14 am |
    • igaftr

      "This is one of the places where you show the relationship between science and Faith in God."

      And that was not shown. What is shown is a result of sceintific study. There is no relationship with any "god" indicated, so this article does not do what you claim it does.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:15 am |
      • Vic

        Using own belief to interpret scientific discoveries in relation to God on a belief blog is one of the things what a belief blog is for.

        March 23, 2014 at 10:28 am |
        • igaftr

          and that was not done. What she did was go from "we have this new information, and then leapt to any meaning about god. It just shows the bias she has, that though all of the information and education she has, she still tries to fit a god in, and her research continues to show no sign of any god. It is irresponsible on her part.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:31 am |
        • Vic

          http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20/does-the-big-bang-breakthrough-offer-proof-of-god/comment-page-16/#comment-2971087

          March 23, 2014 at 10:33 am |
        • bostontola

          Vic,
          Your statement is true, but Dr. Wickman mis-interpreted the science. That opens her up to criticism.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:33 am |
    • bostontola

      Vic,
      I agree with you mostly. I disagree that we shouldn't criticize for the same reason as you used in your premise, this is an opinion blog.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:21 am |
      • Vic

        You can objectively criticize the belief, concept, etc., but you cannot criticize publishing it on a belief blog where it belongs, that's contrary to "Free Press" and the First Amendment.

        March 23, 2014 at 10:32 am |
        • midwest rail

          Criticism is NOT contrary to the 1st Amendment. You cannot possibly be that ill informed on such a basic matter.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:34 am |
        • bostontola

          That makes sense to me also, but we both know that people get to choose their own sensibilities.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:34 am |
    • MidwestKen

      @Vic,
      I agree that this is the forum for that type of discussion, however the author is misrepresenting what the science says and therefore opens it to criticism, both the content and publishing of this particular piece.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:37 am |
    • nepawoods

      The criticism is valid. The article uses fallacious reasoning, in many places. The conclusion isn't the issue. Unsound logic is no more appropriate in the religion section than anywhere else.

      March 23, 2014 at 11:39 am |
  10. nepawoods

    "The prevalent theory of cosmic origins prior to the Big Bang theory was the “Steady State,” ... However, this new evidence strongly suggests that there was a beginning to our universe."

    Seems like a big jump there, from "prior to the Big Bang theory" to "this new evidence suggests ...".

    Did we not know for a long time now that the universe (as we know it) had a beginning?

    March 23, 2014 at 9:46 am |
    • bostontola

      The steady state hypothesis was a rationalization by some scientists who couldn't accept the Big Bang and the conclusion that our observable universe had a beginning. They postulated that as the universe expended (incontrovertible), new stars formed to fill in. The CBR and Hoyle's own nucleosynthesis showed that the Big Bang was right and steady state was wrong.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:01 am |
      • nepawoods

        Correct. And the author's statement that "this new evidence strongly suggests that there was a beginning to our universe" is no more true of this new evidence than it was of what was always accepted. She makes it seem like the faithful can now rejoice that science agrees that the universe had a beginning. First, that's only the universe as we know it, and second, it's nothing new.

        March 23, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • bostontola

          Yup. This new confirmation of Inflation is groundbreaking, but Inflation isn't about the beginning of the observable universe, it happened after the beginning so Inflation has nothing to do with a first cause. Inflation is a subsequent effect and cause of the flat observable universe.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:13 pm |
  11. The Southern Rationalist

    This is why we can't have nice things. If someone asked if this discovery was proof of Quetzalcoatl, there isn't a person in the US that wouldn't laugh at such a preposterous question, yet we're expected to take it seriously because Christians ask it? Why? Why do the religious appropriate other people's work to bolster their own myths? To even ask if this proves God is offensive on an intellectual level. We don't ask if a light switch turning on a light is proof of angels in the wires or if internal combustion is proof of gnomes in an engine. No one asks if Cherenkov radiation is proof of djinn in a nuclear reactor. So why would any sane person ask if gravitational waves proves the existence of God?

    Whoever said there's no such thing as a stupid question was wrong. There are stupid questions, and the one asked by this article is a prime example.

    March 23, 2014 at 9:34 am |
    • bostontola

      "This is why we can't have nice things".

      Made me smile, thanks.

      March 23, 2014 at 9:37 am |
    • whippstippler7

      Southern's whole post made me smile! It captures and simplifies and presents the insanity of this article perfectly.

      Except the part about the gnomes.

      March 23, 2014 at 9:55 am |
      • The Southern Rationalist

        I admit that I have an irrational fear of gnomes. Especially in my engine. Beady eyes, pointy hats....not trustworthy at all. You should see what they with one of my valves and one of my pistons.

        March 23, 2014 at 10:00 am |
        • Bob

          Those gnomes are omnipresent; they are all over cars, and super-powerful too. One of them just seized my front left brake caliper and won't let go of it. And omniscient; they show up when they know that you aren't ready for them.

          I've even seen at least one such gnome be resurrected, when I thought I had a problem fixed but it came back.

          March 23, 2014 at 10:34 am |
    • Koko Loko

      Thankyou for writing what most of us are thinking.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:20 am |
    • Vic

      You just wiped out the First Amendment with your notion.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:22 am |
      • igaftr

        In what way?

        March 23, 2014 at 10:25 am |
      • The Southern Rationalist

        As I am not a government agency, my opinions, comments, and actions do not violate the First Amendment. In fact, since I am not a government agency and do not act in any way on behalf of the government, it is impossible for me to violate the First Amendment

        March 23, 2014 at 10:50 am |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        He is not saying you can't ask stupid questions, just don't be surprised when other point that fact out.

        March 23, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
      • doobzz

        If you criticize Christians, you are violating the first amendment, according to Vic.

        March 23, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
    • southerncelt

      Logically speaking,

      1. Our senses prove that some things are in motion.

      2. Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.

      3 Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.

      4 Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).

      5 Therefore nothing can move itself.

      6 Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.

      7 The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.

      8 Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

      There are 4 other proofs, all based on Natural Law, that logically prove God's existence. Deny logic if you must, but that makes you irrational.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:31 am |
      • The Southern Rationalist

        "Nothing can be in both actual and potential motion at the same time."

        Yes it can. An object can maintain potential energy while having kinetic energy. Example: a skier in motion, halfway down the slope.

        March 23, 2014 at 10:34 am |
        • justageeker

          Energy is different than motion.

          March 23, 2014 at 11:54 am |
        • G to the T

          I believe the skier analogy is an example of the transition from potential to kinetic. Halfway down he would still have half of one and have used up half of the other.

          March 24, 2014 at 10:37 am |
      • bostontola

        Prove 7 is true.

        March 23, 2014 at 10:36 am |
      • bostontola

        Number 1, our senses are extremely limited and highly flawed. How can that be the basis of a logical argument?

        March 23, 2014 at 10:40 am |
      • The Southern Rationalist

        You make some amazing leaps there. Supposing that there is some sort of "prime mover," you leap to the conclusion that it is your personal god. That's a non sequitur fallacy. It dosn't demonstrate anything of the sort, actually. Not that any prime mover is intelligent, that it cares about humanity, that it has any sort of plan. It proves nothing whatsoever about the nature of this "prime mover." We can just as easily conclude that it's the universe itself.

        Your "proof" claims that infinite regress is not possible, but this is an naked assertion. Space can conceivably be infinite, as we do not know what's outside of the bounds of this universe. Yet, space and time are not physically independent from each other. In fact, they are part of the same coordinate system. If space can conceivably be infinite, then why can't time?

        March 23, 2014 at 10:45 am |
        • justageeker

          "If space can conceivably be infinite, then why can't time?" – If you believe in God it can. If you believe in the Big Bang than time was created at the same moment therefore is not infinite.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
        • g2dat

          "If you believe in the Big Bang than time was created at the same moment therefore is not infinite"

          Not created, began. There is a difference.

          But that does not exclude the possibility of there having been time "before" the event, it's just that we cannot access that timeline because it is outside of our perceptible universe.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:13 pm |
        • justageeker

          "Not created, began. There is a difference." – OK. However you say it did not exist.

          "But that does not exclude the possibility of there having been time "before" the event" – I suppose Hawking and others who believe in the Big Bang could be wrong. I don't know any more than they do so I kinda just think that they might be right.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
        • g2dat

          "I suppose Hawking and others who believe in the Big Bang" Actually, I'm articulating some of Hawking's theories. I was fortunate enough to see him speak in Cambridge.

          There's nothing to exclude the possibility that time/space (if viewed from an outside perspective) might look like an hourglass with the singularity as the "pinch" in the hourglass. The sand in bottom has no way to experience the sand in the top once all the sand is through the glass.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
        • g2dat

          Almost forgot:

          ""Not created, began. There is a difference." – OK. However you say it did not exist.

          No. A state of "nothing" has never existed to my knowledge. It's not "something from nothing" it's something from everything. All of the energy/matter that make up the known universe were all there as far back as we can see. Once something is taken to the scale of a singularity, quantum mechanics can be said to apply and at that level, effects to happen without causes.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "If you believe in the Big Bang than time was created at the same moment therefore is not infinite."

          So i'm not allowed to believe in both the big bang and multi-verses? Where time could exist in another dimension or universe all together and we would be completely ignorant of it outside of our own universe? Or since energy can be neither created or destroyed but moves from one form to another could it not move from one universe to another though a tiny tear in the fabric between universes where the big bang is simply the physical evidence of that energy bursting into this universe? Or is that just to hard for your small mind to grasp and you would rather just assign a supernatural integer to explain it so you can feel like you "know" how it all happened...

          March 23, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
        • justageeker

          Which theory? I didn't think he predicted what was before the Big Bang but I'd be interested in reading it.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
        • justageeker

          "So i'm not allowed to believe in both the big bang and multi-verses?" – Sure you can. You can believe whatever you want and you'll be equally right as anyone who believes in a creator since neither can be proven.

          "Or is that just to hard for your small mind to grasp and you would rather just assign a supernatural integer to explain it so you can feel like you "know" how it all happened..." _ Perhaps if you have ever read any of my posts at all you'll see I do not have an agenda whether it be a creator or a Big Bang or whatever. My 'small mind' is big enough to admit that I, and everyone else so far, do not know for sure how everything got here.

          So again I say believe in whatever you want. Only an ignorant person would say someone else is wrong without absolute proof of the opposite. Are you ignorant?

          March 23, 2014 at 12:49 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          from your original post it seemed you wanted to tell me what I believe claiming that if I believe in the big bang then I believed time started at that moment, which I don't. My post was in reply to that assertion.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
        • justageeker

          Folks like Hawking who believe in the Big Bang make the assumption that time started then. Although another poster here points out that what I have read on Hawking may not be true so I'm open to that as well I suppose.

          March 23, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
        • g2dat

          "Folks like Hawking who believe in the Big Bang make the assumption that time started then"

          I think the crucial difference is that it is our local time that started when the universe expanded, not necessarily ALL time. It's hard to imagine but I think the hourglass analogy helps to visual the idea. "Before" the big bang on one end, the pinch (big bang) and our universe after the big bang.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • justageeker

          The hour glass makes perfect sense to explain the unknown. Meaning what was before our local time. That is how I understand Hawking when he says we might as well throw away any assumption before our time since it is not possible to measure anything before the singularity. At least not today with 100 percent certainty.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
      • igaftr

        another one with that "prime mover" non-logic. Too many assumptions. Things are in motion. We know the Big Bang happened and things are in motion. We are not sure of what caused the Big Bang. To date, there is nothing showing any "gods" at all. You can use non-logic all you want, but what you have presented is not logic.

        March 23, 2014 at 11:01 am |
    • justageeker

      "To even ask if this proves God is offensive on an intellectual level" – LOL...because you know the 'real' truth? No one does junior. Not believers. Not scientists. Both are equally ignorant to put each other down without themselves knowing the real truth of how we got here.

      March 23, 2014 at 11:13 am |
  12. bostontola

    Science and the God Hypothesis are not mutually exclusive. Science and Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc., are mutually exclusive.

    March 23, 2014 at 9:21 am |
    • nepawoods

      Why stop there? We could invent countless new beliefs in things unseen, all mutually contradictory, all with the same evidence: none.

      March 23, 2014 at 9:30 am |
      • bostontola

        Because I'm not ruling out the possibility of a God based religion that is not in conflict with science. There could be Deist religions that are compatible with science.

        March 23, 2014 at 9:34 am |
  13. ugetthefacts

    While tying my shoe I was reading this article and began questioning it. My shoe lace broke, I became scared. It was a sign from god for questioning him.

    Now that defines a closed mind brought on by religious fears.

    March 23, 2014 at 9:09 am |
  14. kamakiriad

    "we quickly conclude that there must be a more satisfying explanation than random chance."

    No, there MUST not be. Random chance is perfectly fine. That assumption, right there, is where the faithful fall down. Just because you may need a better explanation at night for the universe, to settle your fears of death, does not mean there MUST be a better explanation, and shame on you as a scientist for extending a conclusion without any facts or experimental evidence to back it up.

    March 23, 2014 at 9:06 am |
  15. HenryMiller

    "Does the Big Bang breakthrough offer proof of God?"

    No, it offers more opportunities to ask more questions. You don't need to drag various ad hoc gods of various requisite characteristics into the discussion. Saying "God did it." is intellectual surrender.

    March 23, 2014 at 9:01 am |
  16. basehitter

    "Properly practiced, science can be an act of worship in looking at God’s revelation of himself in nature."
    Some examples come to mind; birth deficits, childhood cancer, mental illness, malaria, natural disasters, AIDs, bubonic plague, small pox, typhus, etc, etc,...

    March 23, 2014 at 8:44 am |
    • ugetthefacts

      add too; crusades, inquisition, vatican aiding hitler and child abuse cover ups worldwide. The quest for god sure is evil

      March 23, 2014 at 9:03 am |
  17. basehitter

    Translation: Wow, the universe is too big and complex for me to think about it. I need a simple and certain answer, god did it !

    March 23, 2014 at 8:30 am |
  18. roskiy

    The most idiotic reasoning i ever heard. Author jumps to conclusions without analysis of any kind.I guess that is what religion is about, i really expected more from CNN...

    March 23, 2014 at 8:20 am |
  19. Jonathan

    Psalm 19
    The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
    2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
    3 They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
    4 Yet their voice[b] goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.
    In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.

    March 23, 2014 at 7:54 am |
    • Jonathan

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LWG_72LyN0k

      March 23, 2014 at 7:54 am |
      • basehitter

        Why do religious people hold their hands up in the air ? Does that enhance connectivity to the hocus pocus vibes ?

        March 23, 2014 at 9:04 am |
        • kamakiriad

          It's the international symbol of "Look at me, I am holier than you." More ways to be special I guess.

          March 23, 2014 at 9:08 am |
        • fellfromgrace1965

          It's to make themselves look bigger, so they can scare off Elisha and his bears.

          March 23, 2014 at 9:37 am |
        • new-man

          it's an act of praise.
          those who worship the gods of sports do the same at a football, baseball, soccer, basketball game etc.

          March 23, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
    • sam stone

      jonathan: not at all convincing, or inspirational, for that matter

      March 23, 2014 at 8:37 am |
    • whippstippler7

      Psalm of the Wiener:

      I wish I were an Oscar Meyer wiener
      that is what I'd really like to be
      'cause if I were an Oscar Meyer wiener
      everyone would be in love with me

      March 23, 2014 at 8:58 am |
      • ugetthefacts

        'Psalm of the Wiener' we need to interpret it. It is goodness.

        March 23, 2014 at 9:06 am |
      • whippstippler7

        Now, the fact that is says "I wish" – does that really mean the person wishes? Hmmm – only if it supports your viewpoint. Otherwise, the obvious meaning of obvious words are open to debate. Besides, the Wiener God gave humanity this song. All Hail and Praise the Great Wiener. (Note – I tried that line on my wife this morning – hailing and praising the wiener – which explains why I'm sitting in front of my computer right now, as posed to elsewhere)!

        March 23, 2014 at 9:11 am |
        • Akira

          *snerk*

          March 23, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
  20. basehitter

    Does this new finding prove an invisible, all powerful, magic man who lives in the sky had an evil talking snake tempt a woman, made from a rib, to disobey him, whereby he put a curse on all future humanity, then later changed his mind and decides to lift his curse by impregnating a human woman with himself and having himself tortured, killed, and raised from the dead, so that if you believe all that, you get to live forever in heaven after you die, but if you don't, he will torture you forever in hell ?

    March 23, 2014 at 7:50 am |
    • Woody

      If there actually was a historical Mary who gave birth to Jesus, or whatever name he went by, we can see that the apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree. Mary came up with the “god knocked me up” story to keep from potentially getting stoned to death. Obviously, a lot of people bought her story. Her son claimed he was the son of god. Obviously a lot of people bought his story. It seems as if there was a strong, creative people manipulation, gene running in that family.

      March 23, 2014 at 10:19 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.