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March 28th, 2014
01:22 PM ET
Does God have a prayer in Hollywood?By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Los Angeles (CNN) – Forgive Darren Aronofsky if he’s begun to identify with the title character of his new film, “Noah.” Like the infamous ark-maker, the 45-year-old director has weathered a Bible-sized storm – and it’s not over yet. Aronofsky’s epic, which stars Russell Crowe and boasts a $130 million budget (with marketing costs to match), rode a swelling wave of controversy into American theaters on Friday. Despite fierce criticism from some conservative Christians, "Noah" was the top box-office draw last weekend, raking in $44 million in the United States. Part Middle-Earth fantasy flick, part family melodrama, the film is an ambitious leap for Aronofsky, director of the art-house hits “Black Swan” and “The Wrestler.” Both of those films were showered with praise and awards. “Noah,” on the other hand, has sailed into a stiff headwind. Glenn Beck and megachurch pastor Rick Warren blasted the film. The National Religious Broadcasters insisted “Noah” include a disclaimer acknowledging the filmmakers took “artistic license” with the Bible story. Several Muslim countries have banned the movie, citing Islam’s injunctions against depicting prophets. Even Paramount, the studio releasing “Noah,” has agitated Aronofsky, testing at least five different versions of his film with focus groups. “I can understand some of the suspicion because it’s been 50 years since an Old Testament biblical epic has come to the big screen,” Aronofsky said recently. “And in that time a lot of films have come out of Hollywood that have rubbed people the wrong way." Box office report: 'Noah' wreaks Old Testament havoc on its competitors 2014 is supposed to be the year Tinsel Town reversed that trend and finally got religion. A decade after “The Passion of the Christ” surprised Hollywood, rankled liberals and raked in $600 million worldwide, big studios are backing a flotilla of faith-based films. In addition to “Noah,” there’s “Son of God” from 20th Century Fox, which came out in March and is culled from the History Channel’s megahit miniseries, "The Bible." In April, Sony Pictures will release “Heaven is For Real,” based on the bestselling book and produced by Bishop T.D. Jakes, a Texas megachurch pastor and multimedia entrepreneur. The movie “Exodus,” directed by Ridley Scott and starring Christian Bale as Moses, is scheduled for December. So, too, is “Mary, Mother of Christ,” which is billed as a prequel to Mel Gibson’s “Passion.” More biblical epics may be on the horizon. Steven Spielberg is reportedly in talks to direct another movie about Moses, and Warner Brothers recently bought a script about Pontius Pilate. The box office hasn’t seen this many faith-based films since Charlton Heston delivered the “The Ten Commandments” in Technicolor. And that’s not even counting “God is Not Dead,” the indie sleeper that took in $8.5 million last weekend. So what’s behind Hollywood’s religious revival? “The biggest factor is the dynamic growth of the box office in international markets,” said Paramount vice chairman Rob Moore, one of the forces behind “Noah.” MORE ON CNN: A flood of reviews for 'Noah' Moore pointed to the $14 million his film has made in Mexico and South Korea, two of the more than 20 countries where “Noah” will run this year. As Hollywood’s supply of comic-book heroes seems to run dry, studios know the Good Book comes with a built-in audience of billions. The Bible’s heroes and villains are jeered and cheered on nearly every continent. Its morally complex stories are rife with blockbuster-ready special effects like locust plagues, apocalyptic floods and talking donkeys. But the controversy over “Noah” illustrates the promise and the peril of bringing the Bible to the big screen. Yes, there’s a ready-made audience that loves the book, but will they tolerate a script that strays from Scripture? On the other hand, will increasingly secular young Americans flock to see films that look and sound like sermons? "The earlier emphasis of faith-based films was to sacrifice quality for the message," Jakes said in a recent interview. "But it's dangerous to divide entertainment from evangelism. You're not going to connect with the average movie-goer if you're not putting out good stuff." But even Jakes, a longtime pastor and film producer, said it's not easy to turn a religious text into a movie.  Megachurch pastor and multimedia entrepreneur Bishop T.D. Jakes' latest film, "Heaven is For Real," releases in April. The author of "Heaven is For Real" has been adamant that the movie mirror the bestselling book. And Jakes cautions that the film's depiction of heaven does not comport with Christian orthodoxy. "It's a little boy's vision of heaven," he said. "It's not a theological film by a council of scholars." Like Jakes, Mark Burnett said he sees the silver screen as an evangelistic tool. "We believe that over the next few decades, billions of people are going to see 'Son of God'," the reality-show producer said. "This is not just some film to us." Burnett pitched his movie hard to religious leaders before its release. Evangelical pastors like Rick Warren rented out entire theaters, and Catholic bishops endorsed the film – which hews to the New Testament telling of Jesus’ life. The Christian push lifted “Son of God” to No. 2 on its opening weekend in February when it made more than $26 million in the United States. Since then, sales have fallen sharply. But Burnett cautions filmmakers against bowdlerizing the Bible to succeed at the box office. “There’s a big price to pay for departing from the sacred text,” he said. Just ask Universal Pictures, the studio behind Martin Scorcese’s “The Last Temptation of Christ,” which sparked outrage in 1988. Not only did Christians boycott the movie, in which Jesus fantasizes about married life, some sent death threats to studio executives. “These stories hit really sensitive areas,” said Elijah Davidson, director of the Reel Spirituality program at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. Noah’s tale is a prime example. Just four short Bible chapters, it’s more sketch than story: The protagonist doesn’t speak until the boat finally lands ashore. “And yet it’s a foundational story for many Christians,” Davidson said. For centuries, theologians have taught that God’s covenant with Noah and post-flood promise to be merciful prophesied Christ’s later arrival. Building Noah’s arc Aronofsky, who describes himself as culturally Jewish but not especially religious, said he respects how important the Noah story is for believers. “We tried very hard not to contradict anything in the Bible,” the director said. “But we also wanted to bring the story alive for a 21st century audience.” Wiry and intense, with a shaved head and a Brooklyn accent, Aronofsky looks like a man who’s just finished one fight and is girding for another. “What’s been missing from the whole controversy is my personal passion for the film,” the director said. “I’ve been thinking about this for 30 years.”  "Noah" director Darren Arnofsky's previous films have included the art-house hits "Black Swan" and "The Wrestler." When he was 13, Aronofsky’s middle-school class in Coney Island was asked to write about peace. He penned a poem about Noah called “The Dove” that was recognized by the United Nations. (As a thank you for setting him on the creative path, Aronofsky gave his teacher, Ms. Fried, a bit part in “Noah.”) Even as a child, the director said, the Noah story unsettled him. Aronofsky didn’t see the happy tale of rainbows and doves told in children’s books. He saw the humans and animals consumed by the waters – the world drowning in the deluge outside the ark. As he began his film career, the director grew obsessed with telling the Noah story from that perspective – and employing the power of modern special effects to portray Earth’s first apocalypse. “It’s one of the oldest and most famous stories in the world,” Aronofsky said. “And yet it’s never been told on the big screen.” There are good reasons for that. After all, it’s a dark story. God, distressed at human wickedness, decides to hit the cosmic reset button. His waters wipe all life from the planet, except for the fortunate few on the ark. After the storm, Noah gets goodly drunk – perhaps the first known case of survivor’s guilt – and curses the descendants of his son Ham to slavery. To understand Noah, and to give his character a story arc, Aronofsky and his co-writer, Ari Handel, spent 10 years poring over the Book of Genesis and the midrash – stories written by rabbis to fill out the Bible’s narratives. They also read texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch, a work ascribed to Noah’s great-grandfather. Handel, who studied neuroscience, is known as an obsessive researcher. The script’s bibliography runs five pages long, single-spaced. “We had to figure out how Noah and his family would get through this, and what it would feel like,” Aronofsky said. The studio also hired a Christian consultant for the film. John Snowden is a former youth pastor at Vineyard Christian Fellowship Church, where Moore, the Paramount executive, is a member. Snowden, who was pastor to Moore's son, said the filmmakers’ questions ranged from the sublime (Why did God create human life?) to the ridiculous (Would Christians be upset if Noah wears pants?). “I gave them a sort-of manifesto of Christian theology,” said Snowden, 38, who now lives in Nepal. “The most important part of the story is why God created humanity, which is basically to reflect God’s glory. Those are the kind of conversations we would have.” Script or Scripture? Several evangelical leaders have posted positive reviews of the film, and, with the help of a Christian marketing firm hired by Paramount, are spreading the word that nothing in "Noah" belies the Bible. But others aren’t so sure. On March 16, megachurch pastor Rick Warren tweeted this message to his 1.3 million Twitter followers:
For the record, Aronofsky said he’s made the “least biblical biblical film ever made.” That is, don’t expect the camel-and-sandals settings of last century’s Bible movies. “We wanted to smash those expectations, Aronofsky said. “We are reinventing the biblical epic for the 21st century.” Count conservative broadcaster Glenn Beck among the unimpressed. Before he even saw the movie, Beck, who is Mormon, called “Noah” a “slap in the face” to religious people. “It’s dangerous disinformation,” he told his 10 million radio listeners. After Paramount screened “Noah” for Beck last weekend, he acknowledged that blasting the film sight unseen was “kind of a dirtball” move. Then he blasted the movie again, calling it a “$100 million disaster.” Beck’s biggest problem with “Noah” was Noah himself, whom Mormons believe is the angel Gabriel in human form. “I always thought of Noah as more of a nice, gentle guy, prophet of God,” Beck said, “and not the raving lunatic Paramount found in the Bible.” MORE ON CNN: Is 'Noah' film sacred enough? Jerry Johnson, president of the National Religious Broadcasters, said he has the same problem with Aronofsky’s depiction of Noah. The Bible calls Noah a “righteous man,” Johnson said. In the movie, his character is much more complex. Noah begins the film as a rugged environmentalist who teaches his family to respect the Creator and all of creation. As he becomes increasingly zealous, Noah seems bent on destroying life rather than saving it. “I understand that the writers want to create tension and resolve it, but they push it to a spot where if you haven’t read Genesis, you wouldn’t know whether Noah is really a man of faith or not.” Moore, the Paramount executive, said focus groups had similar questions: How much of the film is from the Bible and how much was invented by Aronofsky? At Johnson’s urging, Paramount agreed to include a disclaimer before the opening credits and in marketing materials stating that the film is “inspired” by the Bible and true to its values but takes certain liberties with the story. (The language mirrors Dreamworks' disclaimer for “The Prince of Egypt,” which was based on the Book of Exodus.) “People needed to know upfront that this is not a literal re-telling of Scripture,” Moore said. “It helped set their expectations for a movie about a guy who goes on an intense journey. This is probably not the Noah they remember from Sunday school.” Aronofsky and Handel insist, however, that their film never directly contradicts Genesis, and even takes pains to remain faithful to it. The ark, for example, is built to the Bible’s specifications, down to the last cubit. Ultimately, though, the director has little patience with literalists on either side of the believer-atheist divide. It's ungenerous to insist, as some Christians do, that there is only one way to interpret Genesis, according to Aronofsky. But it's also pointless to argue, as some atheists have, that no ark could possibly hold all the animals. The story of the flood has lasted for millennia not because it’s "right" – or wrong – but because it’s deep and alive and unsettling, the director said. The artist's job, like Noah's, is to make sure those kinds of stories survive – to prepare us for the next storm.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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There's isn't anything about god or religion that wasn't created by a human being. Not a thing
Religion without a doubt. Only death will prove there is a God for the unbeliever.
Or perhaps not.
Maybe death will only reassure the believer there is a God.
Any objective study of the thousands of belief systems humans have embraced over the course of human history makes it clear there is no god of any kind.
Or which god to the believer
Vic, regarding your crazy claims, your idiotic Jesus-sacrifice story is complete nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there. The foundation of your whole religion is rubbish.
And furthermore, the "god" you keep harping about would be quite the murderous jerk if he existed, and according to your Christian book of nasty, he even demands that you do similarly horrid acts. Here are some of the demands from both NT and OT that the murderous sky fairy that you stupidly call lord is said to make of you:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Hi Bob,
Even to you the Lord says:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
[Christ Jesus]
Gospel of John Chapter 3: verse 16-18
So are YOU prepared for eternity?
Threats of eternal punishment betrays a weak argument.
yeah..and forgo the "threats" of eternal bliss..I see how you are..cherry pickling and skimming
Arnie,
Why do you worship something that you need to be "saved" from?
@arnolddesigns
You said, "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." and, "So are YOU prepared for eternity?"
That sounds an awful lot like Pascal's Wager. Before you make even more of an ass of yourself, you may want to google that.
In the mean time, can you please explain what it is that makes your god any different from the Tooth Fairy? There's equal evidence for both which should cause any reasonable person to question whether believing in one while not in the other is the rational thing to do.
arnolddesigns,
It's pretty sad when all you have to offer is a cut-and-paste spam.
except you forget there will always be geographical features separating varying cultures who will never hear the jesus stories. buy a globe moron. are you ready for an education?
So let's see, apart from any intelligence some simple organic compounds were floating around, got zapped, and the next thing you now ( oh yeah, forgot to throw in randomness and long periods of time) we've got ho mo sap iens receiving PhD's in physics from MIT. And yet, belief in a supernatural being who preserves the life of people and animals on a boat is ludicrous.
An alleged but not proven supernatural being for which there is not a single bit of actual evidence. "We don't know" is a far better answer than "some alleged god did it.". Grow up and deal with it.
I suppose it depends on what one considers evidence. If we are to strictly take evolution verbatim, that in itself sounds as loony as the garden of Eden does.
Some how pop, boom and bang out from the magic salamander is even a stretch under LSD.
What you are talking about is not evolution. Please try again.
"Some how pop, boom and bang out from the magic salamander"
How is that evolution verbatim?
Not really much of a counterargument to evolution you have there, is it sport? Yes, given billions of years for something random to occur I find the first option you describe to be entirely plausible. Two billion years is a million times as long as the amount of time that's passed since the events described in the New Testament allegedly took place. That's 1,000,000 times as long.
Is there a rational reason I should believe an extremely rare convergence of random events couldn't create a simple life form that could eventually morph into more complex forms? At least it's a attempt to explain how life started. You just kick the can down the road by saying God did it without even attempting to explain his existence. What a copout.
Your argument, in a nutshell is that if we can't explain the cause of some event God must be the answer. But there is a glaring problem with this argument for those who are familiar with religious histories. Throughout recorded history believers have attributed countless natural phenomenon to supernatural forces.
Lighting and thunder were caused by Thor's hammer. Epileptic seizures were caused by demonic possessions. Disease was caused by evil spirits. Earthquakes weren't the result of shifting tectonic plates, but by an angry god. Over time, as scientific knowledge has advanced one supernatural attribution after another has been debunked and relegated to the dustbin of myths and superstition.
Yet never once has any supernatural attribution ever been shown to be the correct explanation. Determined to cling to your beliefs your position is basically that until science can debunk all of the nonsense you believe you're going to keep believing it. Feel free. Just don't try to have your myth-based morality imposed on the rest of us by having it codified into laws.
Interesting thing is, science has been around as long as a God theory. And now after all these thousands of years is not any closer to explaining what science can't.
So now what you find among the scientific community are those who embrace the God theory for what science cannot and never will be able to explain of mankind's origin.
Evolution is merely the natural order of things. And continues to this very day.
It is the same argument concerning climate change which will happen regardless if mankind is here oj earth or not, the real question is mankind helping to accelerate that change and if so by how much.
Those who preach mankind's development from a text of ancient stories are no more enlighten about the subject then the scientist who creates the test for their validation. If anything leads itself to credibility as to a 'plan endeavor' it is mother nature itself.
Good luck on your quest.
And may the force be with you.
You're rambling. If you have a point you should stop saving it for a rainy day and make it.
" Not really much of a counter argument to evolution"
Nor was it intended to be. " So let's see, apart from any intelligence... " must be the phrase you either overlooked or did not comprehend.
"And yet, belief in a supernatural being who preserves the life of people and animals on a boat is ludicrous."
Yes it is...it is not even close
" Yes it is ... it's not even close."
Once again, you find yourself in the minority expressing your thoughts with an absolutism that pretends majority.
Where's Fallacy Spotter when ya need 'im?
I replied on page 10
♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰
Sorry, my cat Darwin seems to think he is and he may just be right..in the very least, he exists.
And why should anyone belive that?
‡ ‡ Nope. ‡ ‡
♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord is 100% Pure Bullshit ♰ ♰ ♰
Hi Hot Air Race,
Even to you, the Lord says:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
[Christ Jesus]
Gospel of John Chapter 3: verse 16-18
So are YOU prepared for eternity?
Fully prepared! Not the least bit concerned about your bogey man. Fuck 'Im, in fact. Well ok, you can't do that or anything else to an alleged but never proven imaginary being, but you get the idea.
God loves you so much that he'll torture you eternally for not loving him back.
And you worship that thing?
God tortures no one for eternity..nowhere is that fouindin the bible..man tortures himself by realizing he made wrong decision and gets NOTHING good for it!!! I see we still have the pathetic blame game..people wont take responsibility for their actions
Oh, kermie, how you do run on.
I accept responsibility for my actions. I don't require the human sacrifice of an innocent person to make me right with your imaginary friend.
no...I mean accepting responsibiloity in that you actually did wrong...or you will justify it by saying..it..it wasn't really "that bad" cmon give me a break here
As I said, I accept responsibility for my actions, and I do it here in the real world with real human beings. No human sacrifice necessary. No gods required.
I ALSO do it here in the real world..if I murder..I still get consequences..i go to jail..I siffer the anguish of having had killed someone..etc etc....
You murder people? Are you posting from prison, kermy?
not at all..notice I said IF.....
I mean..you reject God..and you don't think youd pay for it? give me a break....you get consequences..god offers a gift..and you reject it..then you cry wah wah cause you didn't get what you feel you deserved
I see no evidence for your god. I'm not crying over your imaginary friend and his imaginary torture chamber.
HOWEVER..you WERE making it for arguments sake that if a God did exist..so get on with it
No, I simply pointed out that the Christian claims of a loving god does not match the actions of that god in your book.
Quoting the Bible does not prove anything in it of a supernatural nature is real.
"So are YOU prepared for eternity?"
When you die you cease to exist. I'm not aware of preparation process required to not exist.
Arnie: Taking transated, edited hearsay and giving it any creedence is dumb.
Are YOU prepared for eternity?
What if you are worshipping the wrong god?
kermit4jc
You reject Zeus..and you don't think you'd pay for it?
lol..pretty poor ate,pt..youre an atheist are you not? you have nO belief in a god whatsoever..I know a God exists..and that's the TRUE God..there is no Zeus to hand out conswequences....I reject cause I KNOW there is a God...you reject all gods....
kermit4jc,
You BELIEVE there is a God.
You BELIEVE there is no god named Zeus. As far as Zeus goes, you are atheistic towards him. Seems like that should show you how people can be atheistic about your God, but apparently doesn't.
I am agnostic. When atheists or believers can prove God exists or doesn't exist, I'll accept it.
that's what YOU believe...don't tell me my thoughts..i KNOW God exists ok?
kermi: No, you only believe a god exists. For such an educated man you're rather ignorant. No-one knows and to say that is complete dishonesty. If there is a god and if hell is real, you'd be spending a lot of time there for how horrible you treat people here. What a dishonest, hypocritical tool you are!
And you rejec (all but one) god, kermy.....and you don't think you'll pay for it?
Kermit, is your belief in your god 100%? No uncertainty at all? If no uncertainty, how do you really know? Why do you believe that for which there is no actual evidence? Aren't you pretending to know things you do not?
If there is some uncertainty, if there is a probability that your god does not exist, what would it take to address that uncertainty, for you to realize that most likely, no gods exist?
I believe in God's Supernatural Intervention
Keep in mind that God works out miracles and does His work supernaturally as He chooses while keeping it within the human level and perspective. That's why He instructed Moses to lift up his staff and stretch out his hand toward the Red Sea to part it and close it back up. Did Moses part and close the Red Sea himself? Of course not! God did. Likewise, God instructed Noah to build an ark, gather a male & female couple of each animal kind—even that could have been symbolic, and board the ark with his family and all the animals to ride out the flood. Now, God must have worked it all out supernaturally but wanted Noah to pitch in—do his part. God always wanted man to pitch in—do his part, and then, He does the actual work while keeping it within the human level and perspective, so there is a story to tell, so we can believe.
Furthermore, maybe not all the species were taken on board, that would make sense since not all the species would fit in the ark, and/or—here is the bombshell—not all the species were created yet back then; therefore, after the flood, God could have recreated and/or created whatever drowned and the rest of the species in dispersion. Even better, I believe it is possible that God has been creating species on earth all the time and to this day—and that would be another sign from God for us to see that He IS. It is like an intertwinement of the natural & supernatural.
Vic, again regarding your crazy claims, your idiotic Jesus-sacrifice story is complete nonsense. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there. The foundation of your whole religion is rubbish.
And furthermore, the "god" you keep harping about would be quite the murderous jerk if he existed, and according to your Christian book of nasty, he even demands that you do similarly horrid acts. Here are some of the demands from both NT and OT that the murderous sky fairy that you stupidly call lord is said to make of you:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
Genesis 1:25 Fifth day: "God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and ALL THE CREATURES THAT MOVE ALONG THE GROUND according to their kinds."
Vic: "maybe not all the species were taken on board"
well I was kind of assuming he didn't have to load a bunch of fish on the ark..
Vic: "God could have recreated and/or created whatever drowned and the rest of the species in dispersion."
I'm not sure what you mean exactly there, Vic, but I have to assume you're saying the species that he may have drowned were sinners.
Vic: "Even better, I believe it is possible that God has been creating species on earth all the time and to this day—and that would be another sign from God for us to see that He IS. It is like an intertwinement of the natural & supernatural."
Goodness me. Have you been drinking a lot tonight Vic?
Maybe this is a poe Vic...
It is well known here that you believe all those fictional stories contained in the Bible. You know all the rationalizations and excuses Christians use to explain away disparities in what Christians believe and what we see in the real world. It's just sad to see people continually regurgitate the same stuff over and over again when even they know they can't support one iota of it with objective evidence.
"not all the species were created yet back"
What scientific, rational or even biblical reason is there for believing significant numbers of new species have come into existence since the flood allegedly took place? This just sounds like typical Christian rationalizing to me.
"after the flood, God could have"
And here we have the inevitable "God could have" speculation that is not only wholly unsupported by any evidence, it isn't even supported by anything in the Bible. It's nothing more than the product of your imagination, which proves nothing.
God could have just killed everyone but the eight people in Noah's band of merry men and women and skipped the whole flood thing altogether. Or, the whole story could be a fairytale.
"Even better, I believe it is possible that God has been creating species on earth all the time and to this day"
The authors of Christianity created a god that, according to Christians has no limits. He is not bound by the laws of time, matter or space. As such anyone who believes in this all powerful mythical character is free to believe literally anything he wants to believe about his God.
This is why trying to reason with Christians about God is always an exercise in futility: No matter what they need to tell themselves about him to maintain their belief in him they can do it. If they need to claim he's standing on every planet in the universe simultaneously they can claim that. This is why so many of Christians' explanations are nothing more than pure speculations that begin with "God could have..."
"and that would be another sign from God for us to see that He IS."
More evidence religion makes people stupid. Sorry, dimwit, but even if what you speculate were true and God is magically creating new species out of thin air it couldn't be a sign of his existence unless there were a rational reason to believe a newly discovered specie had recently been created out of thin air. Otherwise all we'd have is the discovery of a new specie and no reason to believe we just hadn't seen it before.
"It is like an intertwinement of the natural & supernatural."
Kind of like the Harry Potter stories. Got it.
You seem so pathetic, forever trying to convince yourself of these silly beliefs by mindlessly regurgitating them over and over again.
Jesus Christ is mythology
give me a chipper and a juicer and ill fit maybe 80% of the land animals (a pair of each) on the Ark – starting from the smallest insect and work up from there....once you hit the mammals it would fill alarmingly fast.....most wildlife you see when you visit a zoo would be left out. Then Id be left with making that Ark float as it would be heavier than water (carapaces and bone material) ...a tall order
You got that right.
I can't even make a paper airplane.
But then I suppose if some terrestrial was pulling the strings behind the scenes, well then, who knows right.
OK I'm back. I read your post and immediately had to run in the kitchen and thoroughly clean my juicer.
Perhaps even change your brand of smoke as well uh.
Smoke? Oh no, I never did do that.
Let's hope then the wine is out of a bottle and not a cardboard box.
Someone's projecting again. Tsk.
...and we note how some like that word and over use it quite a bit. Perhaps some new material is in order.
Oh, I see someone doesn't know the difference between protesting and projecting.
The National Religious Broadcasters insisted “Noah” include a disclaimer acknowledging the filmmakers took “artistic license” with the Bible story........................
THIS IS SO FUNNY...................the fictional BIBLE has taken bull crap license with the REAL HISTORICAL history of the middle east....is this RELIGIOUS hypocrisy to the limit or what?
Only if the intent was to "record" *history*. The ancient Hebrews had no word for, or a modern conception of "recording history". Myths are stories intended to make a point. The "Religious Broadcasters" are assuming there ever was an intent to record facts. Just shows what uneducated idiots they are. Does it really matter what Zeus did in his stories ? Does it really matter what the Babylonian god of war (Yahweh Sabaoth) did ? If the ancients can make up a story, so can anyone.
Well, they do have a legitimate argument.
And let's face it, the secular person going to see this movie already knows it's a Hollywood distortion and if they don't it's only to reaffirm their non-belief.
It's fit their narrative like a glove and try's to give it some legitimacy.
I personally don't care for the b.s. from either side.
Reddit and infowars are no more legitimate then a Limbaugh/Beck.
"It's fit their narrative like a glove and try's to give it some legitimacy."
A little attention to the English language might give you some legitimacy. Except then there's your content...so never mind.
Hi Dr. Maximus,
Even to you the Lord says:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
[Christ Jesus]
Gospel of John Chapter 3: verse 16-18
Are YOU prepared for eternity?
A biblically accurate account of the ark story would last maybe five minutes at most. It's a pretty short story. Build a three-story boat 300x50x30 cubits with a door and a window out of wood and pitch it. Put a couple of cows on it and you're good to go.
In the Disney musical version, Camel Spiders will play the ill-tempered guards.
I'm still thinking in the musical, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir will be singing numbers in Atlantis as the Ark floats by above.
The ill-tempered guards will have thick Middle-Eastern accents and thick mustaches.
And broadaxes.
Isn't religion all about interpretation of what's left to us from ancient history? Isn't every religion about their own opinion on it? How many versions if the genesis do we have today?
Problem is this movie is not an interpretation, it's a deliberate slant.
I wonder if Lewis Black has a cameo in it...
Stay tune, I'd say the way things are going in perhaps less then 10 years even when the agenda really gets in high gear.
They will have Jesus living a double life as a transgender followed by the stories written in the Bible while smoking some Jamaican mo-jo.
Mary will have given birth to multiple bas–rds out of wedlock and Judas was simply a misunderstood unemployed brick layer. And anyone in Hollywood and indeed better then 75% of the general population will be able to play those parts.
Sounds like they really tried to make something that wasn't close much to the real story. They probably should have taken on Stephen King as a consultant.
"Mary will have given birth to multiple bas–rds out of wedlock"
Instead of just one?
I think all religions in some way push the scripture to fit their interpretation..who's to say they're not deliberate attempts to control the society as they please...
It's called 'cherry=picking' to fit what ever agenda they are pimping.
The Bible is a deliberate slant...
Anything put down in writing by mankind is subject to greater scrutiny. Even when said writing claims divine inspiration.
"Especially when said writing claims divine inspiration."
**fixed**
I'll probably watch part of this movie someday.
...when, after some soccer game, it shows up dubbed on one of the Spanish-speaking channels. I'm guessing it will be more entertaining to watch that way anyway...
Do NOT go see Noah the movie!!!! I walked out of it (one of the first I have ever walked out of). I went trying to give Hollywood the benefit of the doubt, knowing that they would need to add some artistic interpretation given the small storyline from Genesis. However, when Hollywood injected the idea that Noah couldn't get answers from God and wanted to murder his granddaughter, I couldn't stand it anymore. I was disgusted by the portrayal of an axe wielding Noah who kills countless people. I was appalled by the fact that they made up a storyline that a bad guy secretly snuck on to the boat and conspired with Ham to kill Noah while on the boat. I was offended that they portrayed a prophet as a man not preaching repentance but as a man determined to end the human race including his own family. Besides the fact that there is a man with a boat and animals, this movie in no way follows the story found in Genesis. With only three chapters about Noah, it is surprising how many errors this movie has compared to its biblical telling (eg. age of noah, sons all took wives on to boat, length of ark stay, his interaction with his father and Methuselah, in Bible it said Noah walked with God etc). I didn't find out until after the fact the Noah’s Film atheist director Darren Aronofsky Calls 'Noah' The 'Least Biblical Film Ever Made" (Huffington Post).
"I was disgusted by the portrayal of an axe wielding Noah who kills countless people." But the idea of your "all loving God" drowning the entire planet didn't perturb you at all, hey?
LOL
So you WEREN'T disgusted by the countless people/babies/innocents your GOD kills in the STORY in the Bible ? There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING "accurate" in the "Biblical" telling, (they plagiarized from the Babylonian version).
No one in their right mind would even consider wasting their time on any of the myths told by ancient desert dwellers in 2014. Get a life.
Hello Mr. Ball,
Even to you the Lord says:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. [Christ Jesus]
Gospel of John Chapter 3: verse 16-18
So are YOU prepared for eternity?
So what was happening wasn't the mass murder of innocent people???
Mass murder ?!
You seem to have forgotten the story line. We the mass;s are the creation, subject to discarded to the heap pile at anytime.
Don't delude yourself into thinking mankind means anything. Mankind has been the worlds greatest curse.
Wow, way to twist the story to make your god seem good.
Religion has been the world's greatest curse.
Good, try merciful.
Needless to say follow that story line. You don't ever want to provoke this God's anger.
...and no, religion has only been mankind's greatest curse.
one24scale,
Killing every pregnant woman, child, baby and fetus on the face of the earth doesn't qualify in anyone's logic as "merciful".
NICE play on the emotions! Pretty dishonest if you ask me...you only mention women and children and such..butnot the men...ohhh no....who cares about the men....I see right thru your dishonesty
It seems you have one wild imagination as well.
"provoke this God's anger."
How exactly does one go about provoking something that can't be shown to exist? Seems your god isn't so loving after all...just a vindictive monster, not worthy of worship...if it were real, it would be rotting in jail for its crimes against humanity.
I thought their deity was "eternal and unchanging". If it *becomes angry*, that event divides it's existence. There is a finite point at which it's past and future are divisible. Oops. So much for "eternal".
merciful? for man violating the laws he KNEW we were going to violate? sounds like a pr1ck to me
yousound more like the p** to me...seeing as how you seem to imply you don't like rules anyways.....you don't like it that we have choice....wanna have a puppet master for yer God? go for it
What where you expecting, a 1950's Hollywood version ? Them days are long gone.
There's anew agenda in town as it where.
And the clue can even be found in his picture above.
We are taking the Starbucks hipster here on his iPad sipping on a bitter tasking cup of coffee trying to look sophisticated and even sound enlighten.
You sound bitter.
More like accurate.
It was a joke, ddeevviinn. Yesterday some nut bag (it may have even been this one) was calling everyone who disagreed with him a "bitter atheist".
But you're wrong. This person is all over rambling about Hollywood and it's "agenda", Redditt, something he calls "gaydom", marijuana, and an imaginary movie starring Tom Hanks and Lady Gaga. He's even more ridiculous than you are, if that's possible.
If you are a Christian, I would ask you to simply look inside yourself today. Why would you accept a mass murderer into your life?
And Noah's flood is not the only place where God displays these horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. There are several other examples.
You are projecting the thoughts, motives and actions of a sinful human psyche onto that of a holy, singularly just Creator. This is always the disconnect in these arguments.
No, the disconnect is that there is no actual evidence for your alleged creator. But don't let that stop you from enjoying your delusions but please, stay away from children.
" stay away from children"
Something tells me the moral integrity and character of my children is something you could only hope to attain.
Delusional believers just can't help making unfounded guesses. I hope, 'cause praying is useless, that your children are able to escape your cult.
Hello Mr. S,
Even to you the Lord says:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. [Christ Jesus]
Gospel of John Chapter 3: verse 16-18
Do you FEAR the Lord, or do you MOCK Him? Whatever your answer, are YOU prepared for eternity?
I do not believe in any gods because there is no evidence that any gods exist. None whatsoever. There is no evidence that there is anything after death other than decomposition. I'm sorry that you are terrified of your own mortality, but not everyone shares your fear.
IM sick of the crud that you all say God is a murderer without even backing up your claims.....no one has yet to show that God murders! NO ONE has yet to show God had no right to take life that He gave.....you all are totally pathetic when it comes to debate
The Christian argument for the Noah's Ark myth is simple. If it can't be explained with reality, a god did it. End of argument.
Why did god have Noah save animals that he knew would go extinct anyway? For that matter, why save anything. Just start over.
So since there is no God and Noah is just a story, much like Harry Potter, can the religious just be quiet? The bible is a lie, or a story, but it is not a realistic version of anything. We can prove that God doesn't exist just as we can prove that unicorns don't exist or that dragons don't exist: because there is no evidence. I can say that I "believe" in vampires and because I choose that word you can't argue with me, but we all know that vampires aren't really real. Same with God, there has never been a shred of evidence to support a real being out there watching over us or building planets. Frankly, it's extremely ignorant to think a being created all of this.
I love the dichotomy of how infantile and silly these archaic belief systems are, and yet just how darn scary it is that so many Humans think tales of gods are true.
It is very scary. They look reality square in the face and see the truth and then deny it exists. Magic seems more plausible to them than facts. It is difficult to understand, especially in 2014.
Exactly, it truly is scary how absurd these tales from the bible are and how so many people actually think they're real. I mean even if they did an actual exact replica of what the bible says happened it would still be so ridiculous. So regardless of what the director of Noah did with the film, all he was doing was his spin on another made up story. The bible is not a real story people!! It's just a book written by people that thought the earth was flat!
Hello Mr. Rizzuto,
Even to you the Lord says:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. [Christ Jesus]
Gospel of John Chapter 3: verse 16-18
Do you even really Believe whatever it is that you purport to believe? Whatever your answer, are YOU prepared for eternity?
WHAT is so scary about me knowing there is a God that exists and the bible is true?
Can you jog my memory?
1. How Did Those Huge Dinosaurs Fit on the Ark?
2. How did 12 million animals get from points all over the Earth to the ark?
3 How did they migrate to their present habitats without leaving any populations, or fossils along the way? Why kangaroos only in Australia, or no Polar Bears in Antarctica? Why go to Antarctica anyway when the arctic is so much closer? How did land mammals unique to certain islands ever get there by foot from whatever mountain the ark ran aground?
Have creationists come up with a better explanation that animals hitching rides around the globe on clouds of volcanic gas?
Jebus done it.
What ?
It's magic!
I'd be impressed if even one person could explain how Noah got a pair of Galapagos tortoises from the Galapagos islands to the ark and how they got back to the island after the flood without resorting to yet another fairytale there is absolutely no reason to believe.
I may be mistaken, but I think someone each kind was transported back to their original location via giant bubbles. You know, like that one Glenda arrived on in the Wizard of Oz.
( someone said each... )
Rats. I was so sure I had them on that one.
Yes..can you all jog my memory too 1> where does it say dinos were there 2> where does it say 12 million animals?
Our friend Vic keeps posting verses from the book, here is some verses for him. Any thoughts Vic?!?
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying,
let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Source:
How to debunk Christians,
How to smack Christians,
How to be smarter than Christians,
Evil Book.com
Hers my thoughts..the sources are silly in tryingto smack Christians and debunk them cause the sources do a exptremely poor job of knowing what it is saying in the Bible and ripping things totally out of context that they can twist and do whatever they want to it so they can debunk Christians.cuase they are full of hatred they will do anything
I agree many Christians are like that.
I was referring to the atheists..and there pseudo scholar type websites
Actually, most atheists simple seem to be reading the Bible literally.
It's Christians who venture way off course with their creative "context" readings of the Bible, and inventive "interpretations" of words. My favourite has to be the reimagining of biblical slavery as some kind of indentured servitude as benign as taking out a bank loan. Clearly, the people who swallowed that are disregarding the verses about how you can sell your own daughter into slavery, beat your slaves up to the point of killing them outright, and how to enslave your fellow Jews by providing them wives.
Check this out.
You have some more verses to help you out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5falw1KpSTc
Enjoy!
Yes, that's exactly how I would react to the passage in Leviticus 24 and the others listed in that video. That stick figure is me!
Ten thousand new species of insects are discovered every year, yet still only a small fraction of those in existence have been found. Consider this relative to the Ark story.
Also, where the heck did they keep the Stegosaurus?
No kangaroo's either. Not a word about them in Noah's made up bible story
How did they handle Vestimentiferan tube worms, among other animals, which would require deep sea hydrothermal vents to survive?
Actually all salt water and freshwater species would almost certainly die due to the salinity issue. How are you going to get two of every fish anyway? What are they going to swim behind the boat?
I know, right? The story only works if you don't know anything about the ecosystems underneath the surface of the land and water, like the authors of the bible.
The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their object of worship shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think about it – By murdering nearly every human on the planet, the Christian God is far more heinous than Hitler. No "loving" and "perfect" being can also be a mass-murderer bent of global genocide. Yet Christians willfully worship him.
well..from you ill gottenperspective..sure..but God is not a murderer..youhave to first prove that it is murder (unlawful taking of life)
It's murder. Pretty easy to see that.
Ph treally..how did God UNLAWFULLY take life? HOW is it that GOD (who GAVE life) does not have right to ake it away? you fail to prove it..try again...
I am not trying to prove it. I am offering my common sense opinion that if you drown everybody you are a murderer.
NOT so..and IM not God..Don't compare me to God..we are talking of God ..YOU made c alim he is a murderer..as in ANY court of law..one has to show murderous intent and that they had no right to take it...youre dancing around
I can't dance.
My mother gave me life, and I'm pretty sure it would be called murder if she drowned me in a fit of anger.
Silly CS, you know it's not murder, it's just how god shows his love for his creations when he's murdering, I mean, "correcting" them. You know, like a loving father does. Because it's god! And he can do anything! And he loves us!
"And he needs money!" – GC.
Yeah cuz all those babies were SO guilty an evil.
Yep. And there are those people out there that insist babies are sinful just by being born.
Taking something as beautiful and innocent and making it ugly.
Didn't Topher say that?
Topher did claim that babies are sinners. L4H actually stated that because a baby is born and starts crying that it's a selfish sinner.
There was someone else recently, but I am not sure who it was. A fairly new poster, though.
such a thoughtless response form ya....
You're need to resort to arguments based on semantics and legalese smacks of desperation. It doesn't really matter what you call it.
NOT at all..apparently you or others who CLAIM God murder..cannot back it up....its not semantics..its called debate.if yo umake a claim..you got to back it up..and all I see is some pretty pathetic attempts to dance around it..almost pretending you didn't make a claim God is a murderer
Oh my kermi, you really did lie about that Bachelors of Psychology!!! If you truly had that paper, you wouldn't have made such a moronic statement and you would comprehend that drowning every person on the face of the planet without just cause (which there could never be a valid excuse for) is mass murder. What a lying fool you are!
ahh..so every person was innocent huh? and you can believe all you want about my degree in psych..I see youre just a dishonest hypocrite who tells me Im being rude and suchy..and yet you been doing worse and keep at it than what I been doing..whata total hypocrite...such dishonesty....no more responses to you..grow up...
No dishonesty. You're the one making claims that no rational person or person with the degree you claim to have would make (at least not if they didn't fluff their way). It doesn't matter if they weren't all innocent, murder is murder regardless of who does it and you're a fool if you think otherwise. Seems the one needing to grow up is the one supporting that wretched god you think is real...please grow up.
in that case, kermy, since abortion is legal, it is not murder.
correct?
Hoisted on his own petard.
+100 ss.
abortion may be legal to us..but it is still murder.....NO woman has the right to take a life of another..especially unborn defenseless children that have done no wrong to her..except they were conceived and she is more concemred of her own life than the life of another
kermit4jc
"especially unborn defenseless children that have done no wrong to her..except they were conceived"
Well done. That's EXACTLY what God did to EVERY fetus on the face of the earth. Oooops.
OOPS..Im referring to HUMANS..not God..HUMAN do NOT have that right..Humans are nOT judge of life...you are simpleton who cant seem to connect the dots..GOD is the one who is Judge of life..not us...
kermit4jc,
Biggest difference between abortions and when God killed fetuses:
Abortions are for women who don't want children. God the children that the mothers WANTED. That's abortion vs. murder.
ahh yes..as if God says we are here forever anyways huh? are You against babies going to eternal life in heaven??? sorry..your argument lacks reason and information....THIS life is temporary..and ONLY God is Judge..not women...
kermit
You claim other do not have reason, yet you believe in an ent!ty, that is a character in a book, that no one can verify exists.
THAT is unreasonable and illogical.
Try using reason before claiming others do not.
I think it's worse than that. The ark story is about God admitting the pinnacle of his creation efforts, the human race, was a dismal failure.
I find it humorous that after god murdered (almost) everyone, things just went back to normal. Much ado about nothing.
God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals in the flood.
How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be "all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God knew he would be murdering millions of people.
One favorable review of the movie is that Glenn Beck doesn't like it.
Glenn Beck has a history of condemning things prior to investigation.
Glen saw it, he and other people at the pre-screaming laughed and wanted to leave early.
The people might have been laughing at the original science fiction in the Bible.
fletche5,
How appropriate that Glenn Beck went to the "pre-SCREAMNG". Classic!