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April 10th, 2014
10:04 AM ET

Study: 'Jesus' wife' fragment not a fake

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

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(CNN) - A team of scientists has concluded that a controversial scrap of papyrus that purportedly quotes Jesus referring to "my wife," is not a fake, according to the Harvard Theological Review.

"A wide range of scientific testing indicates that a papyrus fragment containing the words, 'Jesus said to them, my wife' is an ancient document, dating between the sixth to ninth centuries CE," Harvard Divinity School said in a statement.

Scientists tested the papyrus and the carbon ink, and analyzed the handwriting and grammar, according to Harvard.

Radiocarbon tests conducted at Harvard and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology produced an origination date for the papyrus of 659-859 CE, according to Harvard. MIT also studied the chemical composition of the papyrus and patterns of oxidation.

Other scholars studied the carbon character of the ink and found that it matched samples of papyri from the first to eight century CE, according to Harvard.

"None of the testing has produced any evidence that the fragment is a modern fabrication or forgery," the divinity school said.

At least one scholar sharply disagrees, however, calling the papyrus scrap "patently fake."

Unveiled by Karen King, a Harvard Divinity School historian, in 2012, the scrap has sparked a heated debate over Christian history, archaeological accuracy and the role of women in the church.

The fragment, which is about the size of a business card, contains just 33 words, including: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife …" and "she will be able to be my disciple." 

Though she dubbed the fragment, "The Gospel of Jesus' Wife," King said that the papyrus does not prove that Jesus was actually married - just that ancient Christians discussed the possibility.

"This gospel fragment provides a reason to reconsider what we thought we knew by asking what the role claims of Jesus's marital status played historically in early Christian controversies over marriage, celibacy, and family," King said.

Other Christians have suggested that Jesus may have been speaking metaphorically in the sentence fragments quoted in the papyrus. Some New Testament writers refer to the church as "the bride of Christ."

King and other scholars said they are equally intrigued by Jesus' mention of a female disciple.

"The main topic of the fragment is to affirm that women who are mothers and wives can be disciples of Jesus—a topic that was hotly debated in early Christianity as celibate virginity increasingly became highly valued," King said.

5 questions and answers about Jesus' 'wife'

The Harvard Theological Review also published on Thursday a sharp-worded rebuttal to King's hypothesis by Leo Depuydt, a professor of Egyptology at Brown University.

"I personally—and I am not sure whether I share this feeling with anyone—experience a certain incredulity pertaining to how something that is at first sight so patently fake could be so totally blown out of proportion," Depuydt writes.

Depuydt's criticism centers on the fact that the papyrus scrap contains a grammatical error in Coptic - one that mirrors a similar miscue in the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas.

The chances that two ancient works would have the same mistake are minuscule, the scholar said, strongly suggesting that the author of the"Jesus' wife" scrap copied from the Gospel of Thomas.

“As a forgery, it is bad to the point of being farcical or fobbish," Depuydt told the Boston Globe. "I don’t buy the argument that this is sophisticated. I think it could be done in an afternoon by an undergraduate student.”

The Vatican's newspaper has also called the papyrus fragment a fake. “Substantial reasons would lead us to conclude that the papyrus is actually a clumsy counterfeit," L'Osservatore Romano, said in an editorial in 2012. 

Vatican newspaper calls fragment referring to Jesus' wife 'a fake'

King and Harvard acknowledge that "nothing is known about the discovery of the fragment." King has said it was given to her by an unnamed donor. 

"All the known data about its origin and circulation need to be publicly disclosed and thus made available for scholarly discussionas is the norm in the handling of manuscripts. Is there some reason we cannot just be told?" Depuydt said.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Christianity • Church • History • Jesus

soundoff (2,539 Responses)
  1. bostontola

    What if we found ancient writings, older than the oldest Abrahamic texts, that described an all powerful God. This God created the universe and all life. This God laid down the law and expected everyone to comply. Those that didn't, would be consigned to hell where they would be exposed to the uncontrollable rage of the deity. They would be tortured in every imaginable way. They would be deprived of their sense organs, and would be required to walk on their heads and eat their own excrement. They would be burned in ovens and cauldrons and forced to swim in their own blood that would be squeezed out of them.

    That has already happened. These writings are on the walls of Egyptian tombs.

    By Pascal's wager, don't you have to comply?

    April 10, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
    • guidedans

      Maybe if you didn't already believe in a religion that provides you with the comfort of having eternal bliss when you die, you should jump on board that ancient Egyptian one.

      See, there is no net gain from moving from Christianity to any other religion as Heaven is the best of ll possible scenarios and Hell is the worst.

      You do have a net gain if you move from Atheism to a Heaven/Hell-believing religion because, if you are correct, you get to be dead, but if you are incorrect, you suffer for eternity.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
      • bostontola

        guidedans,
        The Egyptian God will send you to hell if it is real. You are at equal risk as an atheist.

        April 10, 2014 at 6:36 pm |
        • guidedans

          Boston,

          I know that our risks of being wrong are the same, and if we are wrong and Egyptian Hell is correct, then we both go Hell.

          But the difference is if we are right.

          If the Christian is right, he gets Heaven

          If the Atheist is right, he gets death.

          Imagine there are a trillion different beliefs that could be correct.

          Both the Atheist and the Christian have a 1/trillion chance of being correct.

          If the Atheist is correct, he gets nothing: 1/trillion * 0 = 0

          If the Christian is correct, he gets infinite bliss: 1/trillion * infinity = infinity

          Now that I have demonstrated the math behind why you should not be an Atheist, I know you will jump on board.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:44 pm |
        • bostontola

          guidedans,
          I appreciate the levity, and your arithmetic is right. What is not right is your number 1/trillion. I recognize an infinity of God concepts so that number is 1/infinity. Since I can't perform l'Hospital's rule, it will have to end there.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:52 pm |
        • guidedans

          Ok Boston,

          If you're right, and there are an infinite number of beliefs out there, then we do have to update the math:

          Atheism gets: 1/infinity * 0 = 0
          Christianity gets 1/infinity * infinity = undefined.

          BUT

          That undefined is a positive number. It could never be negative even though it could potentially be very small.

          Last time I checked, positive numbers are greater than 0, so the math still stands:

          Christianity: undefined positive number
          Atheism: 0

          April 10, 2014 at 7:03 pm |
        • bostontola

          Almost, non-negative number, which includes zero.

          April 10, 2014 at 8:18 pm |
        • skytag

          @guidedans: "That undefined is a positive number."

          More proof religion makes people stupid. If something is undefined you cannot make any claims about it whatsoever. You can't even say it's a number. lStick to fairytales, because math is clearly not your area of expertise. (I have a BS and an MS in applied mathematics so math is kind of my area of expertise.)

          If there is a god and he loves you, why did he make you so dumb?

          April 10, 2014 at 9:12 pm |
      • sam stone

        Weak argument, guidedans

        April 10, 2014 at 6:53 pm |
        • guidedans

          I think you meant to say, "Really strong arguments, Guidedans. You are the best! I am converting to Christianity now."

          Thanks, Sam, I think you're the best too.

          April 10, 2014 at 7:07 pm |
        • sam stone

          no, i mean weak argument

          April 11, 2014 at 2:53 am |
      • skytag

        I'm an atheist who was a Christian for four decades. Your argument ignores two important facts:

        First, embracing Christianity requires one to conform his life to some set of religious beliefs. The result of this varies widely and includes the Amish, the people who speak in tongues and handle venomous snakes, Catholics, Mormons, and a lot of people who say they don't need formal religion because they have a personal relationship with God.

        If you're wrong, you're making decisions, including very important decisions affecting your life such as who you marry based on a fairytale. You may give up tens of thousands of dollars in order to donate that money to your church. You may abandon your normal life for a period of time to do missionary work.

        So don't act like there is no downside to being a Christian even if you're wrong. It may not cause you to live a bad life, but it most definitely causes you to lead a different life.

        Second, this whole argument is stupid. I can't go back to believing in God again just to hedge my bets. If there is a God and he really wants me to believe in him then he should have given me an objective reason to believe in him decades ago. He didn't. And spare me your rationalizations for why I say that.

        You choose to believe what you believe because you want to believe it. You like your narrative better than the alternatives, it's as simple as that. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia and raised in a Muslim family you'd be a Muslim as devoted to Islam as you are to Christianity. There is nothing special about what you believe, it's just what you believe.

        April 10, 2014 at 8:31 pm |
  2. ed167

    The reason they call it a fake is because they don't want to believe it is true. That is a poor excuse for truth.

    April 10, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
  3. freshnewblog

    Reblogged this on My Family and commented:
    I really want this Harvard Theological Review.

    April 10, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
  4. reldra

    I am not Christian. I do know that Jesus is a historical figure, who, in fact, existed. There is no reason why he wouldn't have had a wife. Much of what happened in his life is missing. The Vatican conventions have removed, erased, destroyed–any writings they didn't agree with at the time. It is a shame, it has caused some actual history to be lost. I am glad there are those researching and finding facts.

    April 10, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      Well, actually, there are theological reasons why He wouldn't have. The Bible doesn't really say one way or the other, but there are reasons to believe He did not.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
    • formcritic

      It is a common misconception that the Vatican controls information about the Bible. In fact, the body of textual evidence about the Bible is enormous. It spans a much larger area, and far more manuscripts and inscriptions, than anything the Vatican could possibly control. We like conspiracy theories, but this one does not fly.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:26 pm |
      • cathearted

        Ever hear of the Council of Nicea? Familiar with the efforts of Constantine to standardize Christianity? Sounds like some heavy editing to me.

        April 10, 2014 at 7:58 pm |
        • formcritic

          Your example illustrates my point. You are referring to the Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church. This is an organization as large and as old as the Catholic Church.

          There were scholars from all over the Christian world at Nicea, and their deliberations on the Biblical canon were not secret. People sometimes use a mysterious voice when they talk about the "Lost Books" of the Bible, as if there were some mystery about them. Study of the topic quickly reveals why some books were not considered authoritative.

          As for editing the text – the New Testament exists in 6500 manuscripts and more than 25,000 inscriptions. Some of those manuscripts are in Catholic archives, but most of them are elsewhere. The idea that the New Testament could be controlled or somehow rewritten by the Catholic Church does not survive even a cursory examination. And, the Old Testament is an even larger subject.

          April 11, 2014 at 10:48 am |
    • steelontarget

      " Jesus is a historical figure, who, in fact, existed."
      Based on what evidence exactly? You appear to be privy to some information no one else on earth is.

      "Much of what happened in his life is missing."
      Everything is missing. The entire new testament is based on a man who never met a guy named Jesus and claims divine knowledge of him through "a vision".

      April 10, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
      • noahsdadtopher

        steelontarget

        "Based on what evidence exactly? You appear to be privy to some information no one else on earth is."

        Even secular historians believe Christ existed. They may not conclude He was God, but even they will tell you He lived.

        "Everything is missing."

        Some is.

        "The entire new testament is based on a man who never met a guy named Jesus and claims divine knowledge of him through "a vision"."

        No. Not even close.

        April 10, 2014 at 6:44 pm |
        • steelontarget

          "Even secular historians believe Christ existed. They may not conclude He was God, but even they will tell you He lived."
          Some yes but no its not universal. Also those that believe there was a person don't necessarily believe his name was Jesus and that the person ever did any of those things. This is the so called historicity of jesus. Many of those folks lean toward a charismatic rabbi of some name being in Judea and eventually dying. The bible can't even agree if Jesus was born in Bethlehem or if Nazareth even existed at the time Jesus was to have alleged to be from there.

          "No. Not even close."

          Oh really do pray tell then? Paul has 14 of the 27 books of the NT attributed to him. Because you've got Saul of Tarsus walking to Damascus with his vision after Jesus's supposed death and who allegedly met with James once in Palestine which he then wrote all this down well after the death of Jesus. Paul admits himself he never met Jesus. After that the rest of the New Testament all comes from other people writing 3rd, 4th+ hand accounts, all written down well after the fact.

          April 10, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
        • ri0088

          "Even secular historians believe Christ existed. They may not conclude He was God, but even they will tell you He lived."

          -that's not evidence. Maybe they believed an individual had the same name...yet the name was common at the time. There's no tangible evidence for his existence. He is merely a figure mentioned in a story....and the historical record merely show people circulated this story, not that anyone has ever actually seen such a figure. Just like Hercules.

          April 10, 2014 at 9:13 pm |
      • guidedans

        Hey!

        That's a good point, steelontarget. But wait! How do we know YOU exist?!

        How do we know anything exists?

        Everything we could have been taught: History, Math, Science, Physics... It could all be lies.

        I guess that, because we can really never prove anything, we should all just believe nothing.

        April 10, 2014 at 6:48 pm |
        • steelontarget

          Absolute fail. All those things you listed can and have been proven. Do you doubt the existence of gravity and Newtons theory? Fine, you can quite easily prove it for yourself. You haven't even made a cohesive argument.

          April 10, 2014 at 7:06 pm |
        • guidedans

          For something to be proven true, then all other explanations must be proven false. Otherwise, you are just guessing between the likely explanations based on probability or faith.

          Everything you experience in this world could all be a Matrix-like simulation. Or it could be a monster's dream. Or it could be completely different from what your senses are telling your brain. Or it could be exactly as we perceive it.

          Nothing in this world is proven. Everything takes some faith to believe. I have faith in God. You seem to have faith in the world. We will see who is right later I guess, although I would love it if you jumped on the God train with me.

          April 10, 2014 at 7:31 pm |
        • cathearted

          I don't believe in gravity, what happens? I stay stuck on Earth anyway. I don't believe in Jesus, what happens? Nothing.

          April 10, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
        • steelontarget

          You're delusional. Enjoy your matrix.

          April 10, 2014 at 8:01 pm |
        • skytag

          More proof religion makes people stupid.

          April 10, 2014 at 9:14 pm |
  5. lance7tour

    Same ole BS still out there to brainwash. The Earth is not 6,000yrs old and JESUS/GOD/Etc. is the biggest LIE next to 9/11. And, all you idiots believe both actually are true; that says a lot about your knowledge of science and evidence!!!

    April 10, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
    • seedenbetter

      Err....9/11 IS true. It occurred. It occurred because delusional Muslims thought their god wanted them to kill the infidels/non-Muslims.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
    • ifhorseshadgods

      Doesn't 9/11 happen every year?

      April 10, 2014 at 6:05 pm |
    • guidedans

      Are you saying that the conspiracy theories about 9/11 are the lie or that the accepted view that it was a terrorist attack is the lie?

      April 10, 2014 at 6:36 pm |
  6. blakenaustin

    More lame attempts by far left, ant-Christian CNN to discredit Christianity.

    April 10, 2014 at 5:55 pm |
    • Starshine

      Not really. Any ancient writings have value, even if you personally don't agree with it.

      April 10, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
    • Starshine

      Not to mention that this is being widely reported, so the bias sounds like it's firmly on you. Which is equally lame.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:00 pm |
    • skytag

      Trust me, Christians like you do more than enough to discredit Christianity.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:00 pm |
    • steelontarget

      Clearly you feel threatened by facts. Well just keep doing what most of you do anyways, make stuff up.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
    • ifhorseshadgods

      Sooo ".. far left, ant-Christian CNN" has been discrediting Christianity for about 1500 years by planting fake writings between the 1st – 8th century?!

      April 10, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
    • seedenbetter

      It doesn't take anything much to discredit Christianity.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:05 pm |
    • ed167

      There is nothing anti-Christian in deciphering ancient writing - unless you think Christianity somehow forbids that? Maybe your definition of Christianity is to never question the doctrine and to actively cover your ears and eyes when something disagrees with it.

      The fact that the writing refers to Jesus' wife does not prove he was married. So why the uproar, the belief that this is a plot by "far left anti-Christian" news? Are you really that threatened by factual news stories?

      April 10, 2014 at 6:20 pm |
  7. ifhorseshadgods

    This is actually awesome news. The more historical evidence we learn about Jesus being real, the further from being supernatural he gets. This is a step in the right direction, since the truth is always best & no one should fear it.

    April 10, 2014 at 5:50 pm |
    • steelontarget

      LOL yes because someone writing another book about Zeus or making another movie about Thor is proof then they exist. No wonder christians like to refer to themselves as sheep.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
      • guidedans

        I would rather be a sheep in Jesus's flock than one out in the wild getting preyed upon by the beasts.

        April 10, 2014 at 6:39 pm |
        • steelontarget

          Clearly you've never raised sheep. Take it from me, compared to most other forms of livestock they are mentally deficient and die the most from predators. Which seems to correlate even better to Christians. Goats which are far more intelligent and more present in the middle east would have been a better analogy. Of course, most of the Jesus myth was written by Romans long after the fact and not even in the middle east so the sheep thing figures. A religion for slaves, to enslave.

          April 10, 2014 at 8:09 pm |
  8. Dyslexic doG

    My Mexican friend Jesus has a wife too. Maybe, just maybe, centuries after the supposed jesus lived, the fragment is referring to someone else ... ? Sheeesh!

    April 10, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
    • ed167

      The fragment refers to the holy teachings of Jesus - so if there were multiple divine Jesus's then yes, it might be one of the others.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
  9. cwrighta70

    Ooo, and another on your man Constantine. http://www.gotquestions.org/Constantine-Bible.html

    April 10, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
    • Steve In SD

      I would take a grain of salt websites that dismiss certain conclusions by "liberal scholars" & does not provide any reference. We do know that early Christianity cherry picked their writings and there was much disagreement about which writing was valid and which was not. The fact there were many gospels (4 of which were accepted) spells an evolving belief system. As Christians, we don't see that as a problem. But outsiders can't help but come to the realization that a lot of it simply is made up.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
  10. Dyslexic doG

    Why won't your god just show himself and then we will all believe he is real. Why the childish games?

    April 10, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      He already did that.

      April 10, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
      • sam stone

        why doesnt he do it again, topher? with worldwide media coverage, not just some backward desert dwellers?

        April 10, 2014 at 5:38 pm |
      • noahsdadtopher

        Why should He have to? He's already given you the knowledge in order to be saved and know Him.

        April 10, 2014 at 5:41 pm |
        • ifhorseshadgods

          Why should he have to???? Because his followers seem to think that God wants people to believe it's real .. you tend to lose credibility after say 5000 years or so.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • lewcypher

          Any other god has "shown" just as much so you have no reason not to believe in them either

          April 10, 2014 at 5:48 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          Because your backward screw ups of a god can't figure out how to communicate in the 21st century, the people that do know how to use the knowledge on the www. are going to see how ridiculous the con has been. All those religious freaks having to find honest work, so pathetic.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          I believe He's real. So do millions around the world and however many billions over the centuries. We don't need Him to appear on CNN. And that's because we have the Creation and a conscience to know He exists.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
        • ed167

          I fully know God, and God is not a being of hate. That more or less proves that a huge percentage of American Christians worship a false God.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:22 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Yes, it's likely a very small percentage of Americans that are actually saved.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:28 pm |
        • Steve In SD

          I'm happy for you but for the rest of us, your sets of beliefs is no better than any others. They all seem fake. It would be easy for your God to show up and settle the question for good but apparently, he can't do that, he is too lazy or he does not exist...

          April 10, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Or He doesn't need to. You already have everything you need to be saved.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:45 pm |
        • Starshine

          "Yes, it’s likely a very small percentage of Americans that are actually saved."

          And yet all think they are; there is not one test that would confirm whether they are right or wrong.

          And there is nobody on this earth who is qualified to judge who is or isn't.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:48 pm |
        • doobzz

          "Or he doesn't need to."

          A loving father doesn't sit back, watch his beloved children suffer from hunger or disease, and say, "I don't need to do anything."

          April 10, 2014 at 6:49 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          But all those others that kept the Christian religion/scam running are now not true Christians like you. How Golden Rule of you.

          April 10, 2014 at 7:37 pm |
        • sam stone

          maybe to improve upon the effects of his first p1ss poor attempt at conveying his message

          with worldwide communications, reaching all corners of the globe,
          it has to be more effective than revealing himself to iron age sheep mounters

          April 11, 2014 at 2:59 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I find it sad you all blame someone else..in this case God for his "poor " way of proving himself...I see no one taking responsibility for the issue..in other words..like sam..no..you seem to be perfect..yuo always see them if they are shown....you can never pass it....common..give me a break....

          April 11, 2014 at 3:04 am |
        • sam stone

          "Yes, it's likely a very small percentage of Americans that are actually saved."

          Ironic that you desire eternity with the vindictive, petty pr1ck from whom you need to be "saved"

          you remain a snivelling sycophant

          April 11, 2014 at 3:02 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I desire spending eternity with a loving God..the one you speak of is not anywhere to be found

          April 11, 2014 at 3:05 am |
        • sam stone

          kermit: god knows everything that will ever happen. therefore, free will does not exist. yet god punishes those who lack free will what would you call that, if not vindictive and petty?

          April 11, 2014 at 9:10 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I call it your limited perceotion of what it means that God knows everything and how it affects us...God doe snot live inside OUR realm...thus his knowing all we do and think does not affect our being able to make the choices ourselves, and still be held accountable to them

          April 11, 2014 at 9:47 am |
        • sam stone

          Answer this, Kermy, if you have the tes-t-i-t-cular fort-t-i-t-ude......if god knows what i am going to do before i do it, what is the chance i am going to do something other than god already knows i am going to do?

          April 11, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
      • ifhorseshadgods

        That's only in folklore, no basis in reality, sorry.
        Any gods worth their salt would know better.

        April 10, 2014 at 5:45 pm |
      • silverdeer

        @topher, Lets test your faith. A guy walks into your church that you have never seen before and during the sermon, stands up and proclaims he is Jesus. Do you take his word on faith? Or do you ask him for a miracle to PROVE he is the savior of man?

        April 10, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          I wouldn't believe it. His appearance would go against Scripture.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          But jesus was a highly popular Messiah freak among his disciples at the time and place, while the other Messiah freaks were wandering around at the time. It was sort of pick a myth and damn if he didn't win out, an Ancient Idol if you like. Constantine went with the flow and promoted the popular choice, hallelujah, Christianity.

          April 10, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
  11. jaydavid666

    Given that Jesus was a "fake", and all religion is false, it matters little whether fragment is "authentic" or "fake".

    April 10, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
  12. Dyslexic doG

    Wasn't jesus gay? He spent his time traveling around the countryside with 12 men. How could he have been married to a woman?

    April 10, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
    • ed167

      Ignorance is not something to be proud of. They lived in a different time, with different norms. Travelling with other men was not a bizarre thing in those days. Besides, they had an entourage with them.

      By your reasoning, most rock stars must be gay - they travel with other guys all the time, too.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
      • doobzz

        A lack of a sense of humor isn't something to be proud of either.

        April 10, 2014 at 6:51 pm |
  13. skytag

    Next thing you know they'll be telling us Gandalf was married.

    April 10, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
    • doobzz

      Or Dumbledore.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:52 pm |
  14. shawbrooke

    It's difficult to understand why believers would be affected if Jesus had a wife. Other people won't care. So what and why is this news? Bear in mind that in all eras people can write what they want. Look at the historical fiction of our day.

    But just a minute. Aren't the authors afraid of the gay rights people who promote the idea that so many prominent dead people were gay. Bet some of them will be approaching the funders of this work asap. What were these authors thinking??

    April 10, 2014 at 4:55 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      we are not afraid if Jesus was married..thing is..Jesus never was married..no evidence he was

      April 11, 2014 at 1:54 am |
  15. believer1bc

    Atheists amuse me, in a sad way. I feel so sorry for them.

    April 10, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Is that due to the fact that we're good without god and you can't possibly wrap your small mind around that fact?

      April 10, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
      • noahsdadtopher

        What do you mean by 'good'? I've always been curious about that.

        April 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Topher: What I mean is that too often it is said that without god, we have no morals and are doomed but that's not the case. I'm not getting in to a debate about morality.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:00 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          I wouldn't say you don't have morals. I'd just say you can't explain why you have them.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          the bible is one of the most immoral books ever written by man so definitely don't claim morality. Atheists are exponentially more moral than Christians!

          April 10, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          Do you really believe that non believers cannot live an honourable life, obeying all the laws in the society in which they live with the of respect of their fellows. My community does not "sin" that is a rather ridiculous Christian philosophy, we love each other respect and obey the current laws without relying on some ridiculous superst!tion that dictates all mankind are "sinners", begone with your deluded beliefs.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          ausphor

          "Do you really believe that non believers cannot live an honourable life, obeying all the laws in the society in which they live with the of respect of their fellows."

          This is exactly the opposite of what I said. Please reread it.

          "My community does not "sin" that is a rather ridiculous Christian philosophy, we love each other respect and obey the current laws without relying on some ridiculous superst!tion that dictates all mankind are "sinners", begone with your deluded beliefs."

          Do you even know what "sin" means? It simply means transgression of God's laws. So you sin whether you believe in Him or not.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
        • sam stone

          We have morals because we have empathy. We are social beings.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • sam stone

          Sin is not a transgression of god's laws, it is a transgression of the laws man made and attribute to god. It is a huge guilt trip

          April 10, 2014 at 5:24 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          Why in the world do you think anybody should have to explain to a very tiny fringe group of Christianity where they get their moral standards from? I mean really you think your silly beliefs have a hold on all the different beliefs of all mankind, what is the matter with you? You represent a ridiculous belief system. how long can you tread water, ridiculous!!!

          April 10, 2014 at 5:41 pm |
        • lewcypher

          morals and ethics developed from the success of the group/clan/society...........they weren't handed down to some old man on a mountain or "poofed" into your head.

          Anthropology 101

          April 10, 2014 at 5:52 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          ausphor

          "Why in the world do you think anybody should have to explain to a very tiny fringe group of Christianity where they get their moral standards from?"

          You don't have to explain it to me or anyone else. But in the secular worldview, your morals vs. my morals can be different and we can't say either is right or wrong. You can only say you have a preference.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          Good. So you will quit telling that people are born sinners that is superst!tion, not morality. You still claim to impose your belief on me and all others that do not believe in your version of god that they are "sinners" and must repent, is that a wrong interpretation of what you impose on all others. Your miniscule judgemental sliver of humanity that want to dictate to everyone?

          April 10, 2014 at 6:09 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          ausphor

          "Good. So you will quit telling that people are born sinners that is superst!tion, not morality."

          We are ALL sinners. You could then conclude we all have poor morality, but I don't see how this has anything to do with what we've been talking about.

          "You still claim to impose your belief on me and all others that do not believe in your version of god that they are "sinners" and must repent, is that a wrong interpretation of what you impose on all others."

          I have no interest in imposing my beliefs on you. If you want to live your life as an atheist, go ahead. But we all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. And thus you must repent and trust in the Savior. If you don't (and that's your choice) God will simply give you what you deserve.

          "Your miniscule judgemental sliver of humanity that want to dictate to everyone?"

          ???

          April 10, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          Sorry your last statement slipped by me, distracted. Except when your religious view wants to have prominence over the majority view that the secular majority accepts, abortion and gay rights for example, what say you?

          April 10, 2014 at 6:25 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          I guess where we really part company is you believe I have "sinned" never happened, the only people that have "sinned" are people that buy into the god belief. Sorry to disappoint I do not have a guilt complex or need repentance, only the deluded and crutch seekers for their life need that. Repent Topher and then try to figure out why you have too without a fantasy.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Have you ever told a lie?

          April 10, 2014 at 6:41 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          Yes. I have, only one, when sam stone said you were an a$$.hole. I said you were not. A little lie to be sure. You do realize that telling lies whether little one or whopers have nothing to do with secular laws unless they are under oath and are perjury. Your Christian standards apply only to your sects, sorry I lied I agree with sam, you are an ....

          April 10, 2014 at 7:02 pm |
        • sam stone

          did i call gopher an a$$.hole? i don't recall. i have called him a coward, and snivelling sycophant. but i do not remember calling him an a$$.hole. Not that it is not appropriate, mind you

          April 11, 2014 at 3:10 am |
    • fbmaxwell

      Kind of like the little kid who is amused by the adults who don't believe in her imaginary friend?

      April 10, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
    • sam stone

      Why do you feel sorry for atheists, believer?

      April 10, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
    • skytag

      You feel sorry for us to make yourself feel as if you're superior to us. I think that's sad.

      April 10, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
      • noahsdadtopher

        A Christian is not, nor does he feel, superior to atheists.

        April 10, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • sam stone

          yet by preaching, topher, you imply you have superior knowledge

          April 10, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          knowledge doesn't make one superior.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:35 pm |
        • Starshine

          Neither does belief.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
        • sam stone

          it implies you have some authority to preach. and, it illustrates why preachers should be publicly ridiculed

          April 10, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Ah, so the second-grade math student should ridicule the third-grade math student because the third grader claims to have more knowledge. You're right. We should stop all learning.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:55 pm |
        • Starshine

          When one refuses to learn anything new, especially when it may conflict with long held beliefs, they are no longer qualified to teach.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:11 pm |
        • sam stone

          'Ah, so the second-grade math student should ridicule the third-grade math student because the third grader claims to have more knowledge."

          If the third grader attempts to preach, yes he should be ridiculed

          Also, mathematics has proofs, faith has none

          Try again

          April 10, 2014 at 7:00 pm |
        • skytag

          Oh please, trust me, lots of Christians think of themselves as superior, including any who go online and post condescending messages to express pity for atheists.

          April 10, 2014 at 8:51 pm |
    • Akira

      Many people amuse me in the same sad way. I feel sorry for the people that make silly generalizations about a whole group of people they've never met, for instance.

      April 10, 2014 at 5:23 pm |
    • ed167

      If it makes you feel better to do so, then go ahead. Who am I to force you to discard your coping mechanism?

      April 10, 2014 at 6:27 pm |
  16. thefinisher1

    Atheists, show the world all of us are wrong and you are 100% correct and stand no chance of being wrong. If you can't, your disbelief in God is stupid.

    April 10, 2014 at 4:24 pm |
    • religionismanmade1

      bhahahahaha not an atheist, but the burden of proof is on the one making the claim of a god, with zero proof.....................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

      April 10, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        If atheists claim to be correct and all of us are wrong, well, it's still a powerful claim that needs evidence. Atheists are stubborn brats who won't admit they have nothing to offer 7 billion humans.

        April 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          and again, I am not an atheist, but the burden of proof is on the one making the claim of a god....

          April 10, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          The burden of proof lies one atheists as well who make the claim everybody but them are wrong. Learn to read.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          "The burden of proof lies one atheists as well who make the claim everybody but them are wrong. Learn to read."

          please explain how one is supposed to prove a negative when there is no proof to begin with?

          Where is your proof?

          April 10, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          If they make the claim that everybody but them are wrong and can't prove it, it's still a claim that needs evidence.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • chainyanker

          You cannot prove a negative, therefore it is up to you to prove the existence of a god.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          People have admitted for thousands of years they can't prove God exists. No human can because it's AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK. God can't be proven using human math equations or human science. It's you atheists who can't get over your own childish ego admit it to yourself. It's your problem not ours.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          "If they make the claim that everybody but them are wrong and can't prove it, it's still a claim that needs evidence."

          so my claim that the easter bunny or leprachauns dont exist needs evidence? WOW

          AGAIN where is your proof?

          April 10, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          "People have admitted for thousands of years they can't prove God exists."

          Then they need to stop acting as if faith is truth and admit they dont know....

          April 10, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Same goes for atheists. Oh wait. They won't.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          "Same goes for atheists. Oh wait. They won't"

          Ignorance is bliss I guess

          April 10, 2014 at 4:46 pm |
        • ri0088

          Atheist don't claim to be correct.....atheists simply reject an unsupported assertion. Offering lies to 7 billion humans won't change reality...yet could have negative effects if those lies distort reality. That's why assertions that are unsupported....are typically rejected. Instead of thinking something should be offered to you....why don't you try learning from what reality reveal and not reject what is discovered simply because you don't like it.

          April 10, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
        • ri0088

          "People have admitted for thousands of years they can't prove God exists."

          -People can't prove non-existing imaginary things exist. We know this from rational thinking. That's why we require evidence to distinguish between the two. God can't be proven to exist in the same way the snake haired Medusa can't.

          "God can't be proven using human math equations or human science. It's you atheists who can't get over your own childish ego admit it to yourself."

          -then how can you claim to know what a god is? or that one exist? or that you know how many there are? Or that you know what it wants? If one can't be measured....how can you know any better? How is an undetectable god any more significant or relevant than a non-existing one when an individual wouldn't be aware of either? An atheist position doesn't require evidence to justify it because non-existence produces no evidence. Claims of existence, however, require evidence for the claims to be valid.

          April 10, 2014 at 9:33 pm |
      • derricktudor

        You don't see the air you breath but you can feel it. You can't see the vacuum space creates but you know it's there. The same thing with God. He is all around you, you can't see Him, but you can see what He does.

        April 10, 2014 at 5:02 pm |
        • joey3467

          NO all you need to show is that is in in fact whatever god you happen to believe in and not some other god that may exist. If you can't do that why should I take creation as evidence of the Christian god when there are probably hundreds or even thousands of other gods that have claimed to be the creator of the universe?

          April 10, 2014 at 5:08 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          Wrong, but thanks for playing.........

          Mental Health is a big deal.....

          April 10, 2014 at 5:11 pm |
        • djangoboy

          I can't "see" the air, but it can be detected and examined with the proper instruments. Same for the vacuum of space, which is actually not empty, contrary to what we've always believed. Your "evidence" for God is your opinion, no more than that.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:37 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      thefinisher1, show the world all other religions are wrong and you are 100% correct and stand no chance of being wrong. If you can't, your disbelief in other god's is stupid.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        I had no such claim thus I don't need evidence to back up something I never stated, stupid troll.

        April 10, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • lunchbreaker

          So just as Peter did, you have denied you know Christ.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Wrong. I made no such claims so far(see I know how this game that you childish atheists like to play).

          April 10, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Why do you not believe in Angus, Belenos, Brigid, dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Eostre, Frigg, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Thuno, Tir, Weyland, Woden, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Black Shuck, Herne, Jack in the Green, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fu.kurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac, Viracoc.ha, or Zaramama?

      Why have you dismissed the Tanakh, Talmud, Midrash, Quran, Sunnah, Nahjul Balagha, Avesta, Vedas, Upanisahds, Bhagavad Gita, Puranas, Tantras, Sutras, Vachanas, Adi Granth, Purvas, Samayasara, Niyamasara, Pravacanasara, and Pancastikaya; Anupreksa; Samadhishataka of Pujyapada; Tattvarthasutra of Umasvati, Tattvarthasutra, Pali Tripitaka, Jataka,, Visuddimagga, Tripitaka, Lotus Sutra, Garland Sutra, Analects; the Great Learning; the Doctrine of the Mean; the Mencius, Tao Te Ching, Chuang-tzu, Kojiki, Nihon Shoki, K-oki, Ofudesaki, Mikagura-uta, Michi-no-Shiori, Johrei, Goseigen, Netarean Shower of Holy Doctrines, Chun Boo Kyung, Kitab-i-Iqan, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Book of Mormon, Dianetics, or Revelation X as holy books since they all claim to be "The Truth" ?

      How do you know whether Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, oriental Orthodox, As.syrian, Byzantine, Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, Anabaptism, Brethren, Methodist, Pietism, Apostolic, Pentocostal, Charismatic, African Initiated, United, Quakers, Couthcotti.tism, Millerism, British-Isrealism, Latter Day Saints, Mennonite, 7th day Adventism, Kelleyism, Co.oneyism, Shakers, Methernitha, Strigolniki, Yehowism, Christadelphians, Christian Science, doukhobors, Iglesia ni Cristo, Makuya, Molokans, Subbotniks, Ebionism, Martinism, Rosicrucians, Rastafarianism, Santo Daime, Umbanda or one of the other tens of thousands of variations of Christianity is the REAL interpretation of your God's words?

      If you cannot prove 100% that your God and your interpretation of your particular holy book is accurate, your belief in God is stupid.

      (turnabout is fair play, n'est pas?)

      April 10, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        Why do you only want proof of one God leaving the other 99.999% of all gods out? Huh?

        April 10, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • ri0088

          @thefinisher1

          "Why do you only want proof of one God leaving the other 99.999% of all gods out? Huh?"

          -uh, they all rely on no evidence. The problem with that is.....all imaginary things rely on no evidence also. Believers have to show how any of those gods are separate from the imaginary. The only way to do that is with....gasp....evidence.

          April 11, 2014 at 3:50 am |
      • chainyanker

        Hey, that's my list! lol

        April 10, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          I assembled that list many years ago on this very blog – the only one I visit.
          If you've seen it elsewhere, you likely copied it from Colin.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:24 pm |
      • cyprian2

        "Doc Vestible",you've got WAAAAY too much time on your hands!!!

        April 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm |
      • colorserenity

        All that just to say, "Your belief in God is stupid"?

        April 10, 2014 at 6:18 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Not at all.
          I am attempting to illustrate the point that one should question any supernatural proposition.
          There are many who base their world views on a singular dogma without ever having explored the myriad other beliefs, held to be just as scared and True by their own adherents.

          "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

          Thomas Jefferson

          April 10, 2014 at 6:53 pm |
    • steelontarget

      Excuse me? The burden of proof is on the rest of the world to disprove your delusional beliefs???? Ok, I believe pink unicorns live on the dark side of the moon and I'm their overlord which commands all control of planet earth.....now please disprove me wrong.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:35 pm |
    • abigchocoholic

      Atheists, show the world all of us are wrong and you are 100% correct and stand no chance of being wrong. If you can't, your disbelief in God is stupid.
      ----
      Ya, right on. Praise Allah. Er, that is the God people can't prove doesn't exist, right?

      April 10, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      oh sally, I see your other personality has surfaced...silly child, run along now and get your injection...when your other personality comes out we know the delusions are getting worse.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:46 pm |
    • freethinkingone

      We do not claim to be 100% correct, we say that if you claim there is a God, you need to provide evidence, without evidence, your claim is invalid. If I claimed I had the cure for cancer, would you not ask for proof? I would need to provide evidence to make my claim valid. Without evidence, it's just an idea, and not fact.

      April 10, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
    • djangoboy

      I don't know of any atheists who claim to be 100% correct. Most simply state that they have not seen any convincing evidence of the existence of God (or any god). Some are actually quite willing to examine any evidence offered but so far have found it all to be wanting.

      There are a few outspoken atheists, like Richard Dawkins, who can be quite insulting to believers. I don't happen to agree with him in that regard. Insults are a poor way to start a dialogue and tend not to convince anyone of anything except that you're an azzhole. A brilliant azzhole, perhaps, but still an azzhole.

      There are also a lot on Internet trolls who pretend to be atheists. They're just azzholes, too.

      April 10, 2014 at 5:41 pm |
    • zschira

      It would be impossible for you to ever prove that I don't have a magical flying dragon that lives in the sky, but because that is a ridiculous claim that obviously has no evidence to back its existence you can reject that claim with no evidence that it doesn't exist. This is exactly the same with god. Until we find verifiable evidence that a god does exist, any intellectually honest person has to assume that no god exists.

      April 10, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
    • Starshine

      What a ridiculous line of reasoning. Is this satire?

      April 10, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
    • revbro

      One word as proof. Evolution. When will Christians accept that man and nature are evolving? How much longer can you close your eyes to reality? The Bible suggest the world is flat.. and even as late as 1650 people believed it.. convinced ships would fall of the edge of earth if they went too far. I know, now some of you will admit to a little bit of this evolution talk, but you can't fully wrap your arms around it because it might mean everything you believed was not right.

      April 11, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
  17. dahound

    The full text actual reads "Jesus said, 'My wife, take her, please' ". Apparently it was stand up comedy night in Jerusalem. Later comedians would improve upon the phrasing.

    April 10, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
    • ausphor

      Henny Youngman.
      Rodney Dangerfield, may have stole it, not a sin among Jewish comedians.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:34 pm |
  18. Salero21

    Too late for this type of gibberish, more than 1,900 years too late!!! JAJAJA.... oops.... Pardon me.... I meant to say... HAHAHA. I miss the emoticons. Bring back emoticons!!!

    April 10, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
    • ausphor

      Seldom make a reply to Salero 21, but cannot help myself. Bring back SANITY.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:12 pm |
      • Salero21

        You mean that you are sane? Really you don't expect me to believe that; Do you?

        April 10, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
        • Starshine

          You're rather dickish, aren't you?

          April 10, 2014 at 5:45 pm |
  19. jonusb

    So that confirms it then; Jesus married and most likely has descendants living today.

    And before you immediately comment on that, yes I did see The Da Vinci Code and no, I don't care that you thought it was overrated.

    April 10, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
    • dave32264

      It certainly would have made sense. Jesus was a Rabbi.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
    • richardaberdeen

      A fragment dating over 600 years after Jesus doesn't prove anything about Jesus. Any moron knows that.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
      • religionismanmade1

        neither does scripture written 50-100 years after his death....

        April 10, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          by people who werent alive when he supposedly existed.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:24 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          you need to do homework..the Gospels were written within 20 years after Jesus death and resurrection....fragments found in cave 7 of the famed dead sea scrolls been found of books dating back to 68 AD...and there were a few fragments found of Matthew and another Goselo..thus 50 years after Christ does not fit..PLUS..the early church fathers..even the ones imediatley following the apostles quoted from the writings..so tell me..HOW can someone quote something that did nto exist yet? hmmmmm....

          April 10, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          prove they were actually quoted and not made up

          Most biblical scholars have concluded that the people who wrote about jesus never knew him.....history is your friend.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          most Biblce scholars? hahah...now I KNOW that's false..i ACTUALLY studied about the history of the NT..have you> and I see VERY few schioalrs making the claim you just made......how can it be made up with so many church father QUOTING it? saying same thing? sorry..but yuorre stretching it

          April 10, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
        • otoh2

          kermit,
          "HOW can someone quote something that did nto exist yet?"

          Uh, yeah, and that explains why Paul of Tarsus did not say a peep about Jesus's life, his miracles, nor even the famous Lord's Prayer (allegedly right from his lips). Those stories had not been conjured up yet...

          April 10, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Because PAUL was NOT concerned about that! in FACT he already alluded to the stories in 1 Corinthians 15...second..Pauls writings were to CHURCHES of Christian people who had issues in the church...shows how much you know

          April 10, 2014 at 4:35 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          I have actually studied the ENTIRE bible as well as other religious texts, without bias.

          "how can it be made up with so many church father QUOTING it? saying same thing?"

          lol really? bhahahahaha if you believe what men have to say about a god, I have 20 acres of beach front property in AZ to sell you...gullible.

          Now explain why the book was edited by numerous PEOPLE over history, most notably constantine..

          April 10, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          explain what YOu mean by edited..and BTW the Bible has shown to remain the same over time..with fragments and such Before CONstatine was around

          April 11, 2014 at 1:51 am |
        • religionismanmade1

          Read and and educate yourself

          http://www.deism.Com/bibleorigins.htm

          April 10, 2014 at 4:51 pm |
        • revbro

          @Kermit... You are aware of the Canon and when it occurred? Please tell me that you really have done your study and you just made a horrible and false claim? I find it somewhat humorous that on one hand you will point to writings found in caves and know with certainty that they are valid, because of the scientific testing gave you a date... and then discount the same method used to validate the writings we are debating. If science proves your thoughts right... you accept it blindly.. if science proves to shake your faith.. it has to be from the devil. lol

          April 11, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        exactly ruchard....they have yet to say what "gospel" this came from...so it cant be proof ..and those who brought this story out are only trying to make sensational news....really its kinda boring..especially when one knows the history of how the NT came about

        April 10, 2014 at 4:27 pm |
  20. arthurpaliden

    Once again religion refuses to accept scientific truths. Is anyone really surprised?

    April 10, 2014 at 3:49 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "I'm telling you people, the Earth revolves around the Sun!"
      BURN HIM!!!

      But let's be fair. It might've taken 300 years or so, but the RCC did eventually admit that Copernicus might've had a valid point.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:00 pm |
      • johnbiggscr

        Though didnt stop the producer of The Principle coming out this spring from suggesting the church was right after all.

        April 10, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • dave32264

      Not really. Brainwashing can take years to get over.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
      • Salero21

        Really!! Well lets see that again. If we Christians/Believers/Deists/theists are brainwashed, at least let me say we were washed with Clean running water as per the Bible. But you; with what kind of water was your brain washed? You don't have to answer that. Anyways is better to guess where that water came from to "wash" your pea brain.

        April 10, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          lol calling someone else a pea brain when you believe in a man made story as proof of a god.....thanks for the laugh. I needed it today.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
        • dave32264

          LOL Real "Christian" reply there bud. Keep it up, you are showing everyone what a true Christian is.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • chainyanker

          Your brain was psychologically washed, ie neural networks established in a certain pattern perhaps, probable when you were young. The Church Organism likes to get them when they are young and/or ignorant and malleable. The Organism needs nutrients in the form of money so by brainwashing the young the Organism ensures a source of future 'nutrients', thus ensuring its survival. The technique of brainwashing has been perfected by the Organism, they have had centuries of practice. Bottomline for the brainwashed: Watch your wallet.

          Laugh if you will, but it is true. This based on decades of experience and observation.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm |
        • skytag

          You must be an atheist posing as a Christian nut job.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:10 pm |
        • djangoboy

          My brain is regularly washed with fine single barrel Bourbon.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:43 pm |
    • richardaberdeen

      A fragment dating over 600 years after Jesus doesn't prove anything about Jesus. Any moron knows that, regardless of how religious, non-religious or just plain tired of it all they may be. God doesn't need a religion; creation and the words and deeds of Jesus, that is, those recorded in the 1st Century, speak for God.

      April 10, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
      • religionismanmade1

        lol only the people who wrote about jesus and what he said never knew him only wrote about him 50-100 years after his supposed death.....learn some history please.

        April 10, 2014 at 4:19 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          You keep posting this same comment like it's fact. It's quite frustrating, because numerous books of the New Testament were written by his disciples, a couple of which were very close to Jesus. If you have no foundation of research, and you haven't personally put forth the time to really dig into a subject, you should NOT be posting information like it's fact. In other words, "You're out of your element!"

          April 10, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          And no, I don't believe you have "studied the ENTIRE bible" as you say, simply because you don't even have basic facts about the bible and it's history correct.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          "a couple of which were very close to Jesus."

          ok so 2 out of 12 supposedly knew him......and 10 didnt yet wrote about him...wow.

          And yes I attended a very religious college and was forced to learn about the bible and other religions.....

          April 10, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          http://www.deism.Com/bibleorigins.htm

          Read and educate yourselves.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:50 pm |
        • joey3467

          It is claimed that the gospels are written by the apostles, but that doesn't mean they actually were, and in fact, most scholars now believe they weren't. This is just coming out because saying something like this would have gotten you killed for most of the past 2,000 years.

          April 10, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          Read and educate yourself:
          http://www.christianity.com/bible/authorship-and-inspiration/who-decided-what-went-into-the-bible.html
          http://www.christianity.com/bible/authorship-and-inspiration/what-evidence-is-there-that-the-bible-is-in-fact-gods-word-11542346.html
          http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibletru.html

          April 10, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          bhahahaha yeah let me read a christian website on christianity.....zzzzzzzzzzzz r3tard.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          Oo, and another on your man Constantine. http://www.gotquestions.org/Constantine-Bible.html

          April 10, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
        • religionismanmade1

          LOL again, I dont trust a website created by christians about christianity.......sorry. try harder.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • joey3467

          Yeah if you want to learn the truth you need to find someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the religion.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          Hmm, what's really interesting is that I'm willing to read your link for a website rooted in Deism, yet you refuse to read and discuss links to the contrary. So it must follow, then, that any proof or relevant research that you would consider would HAVE to come from a non-Christian source.

          BTW, yet another on your man Constantine: http://considerthegospel.org/faqs/faq-constantine/

          April 10, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          Joey, really? You actually think that someone who believes in a subject isn't trustworthy? So you're telling me that because I'm a Christian, nothing that I say can be trusted about the "truthfulness" of Christianity? I'm trying to find the sense in that theory, but seriously struggling.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:29 pm |
        • cwrighta70

          There's some kind of stigma running rampant that everyone who's a Christian just does so completely blindly, throwing out all reason to believe in a feel-good God. The fact is that the world-wide community of people who call themselves Christians is full of intelligence, reason, and those who have poured blood, sweat and tears into fully researching and knowing everything there is to know about the Bible and Christ. Even if you think it's "biased" information, what makes you think it's any less true coming from the mouth of a Christian? In fact, the people who devote their LIVES to studying and knowing the Bible should be able to tell you something about it that's true.

          April 10, 2014 at 5:38 pm |
        • skytag

          @cwrighta70: "There's some kind of stigma running rampant that everyone who's a Christian just does so completely blindly, throwing out all reason to believe in a feel-good God."

          This isn't a stigma, it's just a factual observation.

          "The fact is that the world-wide community of people who call themselves Christians is full of intelligence, reason, and those who have poured blood, sweat and tears into fully researching and knowing everything there is to know about the Bible and Christ."

          All done in the name of trying justify their factually baseless belief in a feel-good God. Look, the Nazis had very intelligent people who invested a lot into fully researching and knowing everything there was to know about the differences in races to prop up their utterly baseless belief that the Aryan race was inherently superior to other races, particularly the Jewish race (which isn't even a race).

          What you describe is nothing more than a massive attempt to validate beliefs that have no objective evidence to support them.

          I've come to realize an interesting aspect of human behavior. In a conspiracy theory people propose something they want to believe but for which there is no evidence. Others, people who do not subscribe to their belief will question it and point to apparent contradictions or other questions it raises. The conspiracy theorists them offer other theories, also unsupported by any evidence, to answer the objections. These lead to more apparently problems, which are then addressed with more theories. Rinse and repeat. At the same time the conspiracy theorists are always looking for evidence to support their theories and often claiming that this or that event or fact is proof of what they believe even though there are other explanations for it.

          Once this web of theories — none of which are supported by any evidence — becomes extensive enough the sheer size of it convinces those who embrace it that it must all be true. In a very real sense Christianity is a conspiracy theory. At its core are a number of postulated beliefs its adherents simply believe on faith. When seeming inconsistencies are pointed out its adherents theorize explanations to rationalize that what seems like inconsistencies aren't inconsistencies at all. These explanations often have no factual of even biblical basis.

          The story of Noah's ark is a classic example. The ark story raises a plethora of questions because it is inconsistent with what we today know about the earth and the animal life on it. Whenever one of these questions is raised, Christians almost invariably respond with a theory that has neither a scientific nor a biblical basis. It's just something they make up out of thin air.

          "Even if you think it's "biased" information, what makes you think it's any less true coming from the mouth of a Christian?"

          Because people see what they want to see. So far none of this wealth of research has produced even a single piece of objective evidence that anything you believe of a spiritual nature is true or that any miracle described in the Bible actually happened.

          "In fact, the people who devote their LIVES to studying and knowing the Bible should be able to tell you something about it that's true."

          What does it tell me about them that it doesn't tell me about Mormons who have devoted their lives to studying the Book of Mormon, or Muslims who have devoted their lives to studying the Quran, or Jews who have spent their lives studying the Talmud, or ... need I go on? You need to open your eyes and realize that you have nothing really unique here. Every argument you have can be applied to some religion you belief is wrong.

          Sincerity of a believe is no evidence it's true.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:34 pm |
        • skytag

          @cwrighta70: "Joey, really? You actually think that someone who believes in a subject isn't trustworthy?"

          It's well known that when people have a vested interest in believing something their perceptions and reasoning can be heavily influenced by their desire to believe they have evidence to support what they believe.

          "So you're telling me that because I'm a Christian, nothing that I say can be trusted about the "truthfulness" of Christianity? I'm trying to find the sense in that theory, but seriously struggling."

          I believe you believe what you claim to believe. I don't believe you are objective and hence some of your perceptions cannot be trusted. I also know from decades of experience as a Christian and in dealing with other Christians that you have no objective evidence whatsoever to support any of it.

          April 10, 2014 at 6:55 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.