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April 17th, 2014
08:00 AM ET

Did Christians really 'steal' Easter?

Opinion by Candida Moss, special to CNN

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(CNN) - It’s that time of year again: the time when chocolate comes in pastels, cherry blossoms start to bloom and well-marketed religion exposés are released to the world.

In other words, it’s Easter.

Among the rash of sensationalist stories we can expect through the season, the annual “Easter was stolen from the pagans” refrain has sprouted again just in time for Holy Week.

Don’t believe the hype.

Perhaps most misinformed theory that rolls around the Internet this time of year is that Easter was originally a celebration of the ancient Near Eastern fertility goddess Ishtar.

This idea is grounded in the shared concept of new life and similar-sounding words Easter/Ishtar. There’s no linguistic connection, however. Ishtar is Akkadian and Easter is likely to be Anglo-Saxon.

Just because words in different languages sound the same doesn’t mean they are related. In Swedish, the word “kiss” means urine.

But the biggest issue for Christians is the claim that Jesus’ resurrection - the faith’s central tenet - might have pagan roots.

Even apart from whether or not Jesus actually rose from the dead, many Christians claim that the very idea is unique.

There are other biblical examples of people being raised from the dead – think of Jesus raising Lazarus. But those people went on to die again. Only Jesus was raised from the dead to live forever.

But there’s a problem: Pre-Christian religions are replete with dying and rising gods.

Dionysius, most commonly thought of as the Greek god of wine, is one such example. He was lured to his death by the Titans, who then boiled and ate him. He was revived by his grandmother, and from his ashes humanity was formed, the Greeks believed.

Farther afield, Osiris – an Egyptian god-king who became ruler of the realm of the dead – was slaughtered before being brought back to life by Isis.

A similar story is found in the case of the Greek goddess Persephone, the daughter of the harvest goddess Demeter. Persephone was carried off to the underworld by the love-struck Hades. Because she ate pomegranate seeds in the underworld, she was permitted to leave only for six months a year.

Her annual resurrection is a metaphor for the changing of the seasons, and many scholars think that stories about dying and rising deities are essentially explanations for the coming of winter.

Then there’s Mithras, an ancient Iranian deity popular among Roman soldiers.

Among the many claims made about Mithras are that he was born on December 25, that adherents to his cult practiced baptism, and that he died and was resurrected.

The connections between Christ and Mithras are further amplified by the fact that the church of St. Clement, near the Colosseum in Rome, is built on top of an ancient Mithraeum.

The list goes on, and I’ll admit it’s a bit unsettling.

That's why the accusations that Christians “stole” the Resurrection from the Pagans is so popular and rhetorically powerful.

If, as many Christians claim, Christianity’s against-the-odds success is in some way proof of its authenticity and truth, then what does it say that parts of its truth were stolen from religious movements that no longer exist?

Spiritual “Manifest Destiny” looks less persuasive when extinct religious traditions supplied the backbone for the modern-day Church.

But there are ways around some of these problems.

Lumping all of these stories of dying and rising gods into a single category obscures important differences between them. Some of those who rose as gods, for example, were mere human beings prior to their return. Jesus, in contrast, was divine before his death, according to Christian theology.

Also, some of the parallels between the traditions come from a later period (post-Christianity) or are completely unsubstantiated. The arguments about Mithras and Jesus, for example, have completely fallen apart in the past 50 years because there simply isn’t enough ancient evidence to support them.

We should also ask whether the fishermen who followed Jesus around Palestine would have known about (much less adopted) stories from ancient Egyptians and Babylonians.

Greek and Roman mythology circulated widely on coins, but would the followers of Jesus who first claimed that Jesus was resurrected have known these stories in great detail?

Perhaps, perhaps not.

On the other hand, many Christians claim that Jesus’ death and resurrection is subtly different from that of other ancient deities and, thus, that the resurrection of Jesus was a wholly new idea.

The problem is, these apologists are one archeological discovery away from disaster. In the meantime, they are trying to pry Christianity apart from other late antique religions in order to protect it.

Perhaps the real problem here is with the idea of uniqueness.

As the University of Chicago scholar Jonathan Z. Smith showed, there’s a huge ideological and religious investment in the idea that Jesus was unique.

But there doesn’t have to be. Just because one idea is influenced by another idea doesn’t mean that its meaning is determined by the chronologically prior idea.

The Founding Fathers may have been influenced by Greek classical tradition, but this doesn’t mean that we should interpret the Constitution in light of Aristotle. You can recognize both the importance and innovation of the Constitution and its roots in ancient European civics.

Rather than battening down the hatches and looking for other signs of uniqueness, Christians need to think about how meaning relates to tradition.

Christians didn’t steal Easter, but it probably wasn’t a wholly new idea, either.

Candida Moss is the author of the “Myth of Persecution” and “Ancient Christian Martyrdom” and professor of New Testament and early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame. The views expressed in this column belong to Moss. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church • Easter • Easter • Holidays • Jesus • Opinion • Paganism • Traditions

soundoff (2,118 Responses)
  1. observer

    For justpro86 and others who may not be all that familiar with what the Bible says:

    (Joshua 10:13) “So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.”

    April 18, 2014 at 12:53 am |
    • justpro86

      So ? the bible teaches of the many miracles of God

      April 18, 2014 at 1:29 am |
      • observer

        "No not at all and neither does the bible say anything about that LOL"
        - justpro86

        OOOOOPS!

        April 18, 2014 at 1:37 am |
        • justpro86

          Ooops on your account LOL half wit

          April 18, 2014 at 1:38 am |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          How very CHRISTIAN of you. Just like Jesus would do, right? lol.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:43 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          justpro: Name calling proves how immoral you are and how no-one should even take you seriously!!! It's rather immature and very un-Christian of you. Just because you think your buybull proves god, doesn't mean a damn thing...if it truly did prove god, there would be no need for this discussion. We are sorry your parents abused you with brainwashing...that's horrible thing to do to an innocent mind and it is very hard to correct the damage.

          April 18, 2014 at 9:20 am |
  2. Blessed are the Cheesemakers

    And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without se.xual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

    -Justin Martyr

    April 18, 2014 at 12:29 am |
    • believerfred

      Can we assume you accept the works of Justin Martyr and given he did not claim otherwise would you accept that he never questioned that the writers of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke were Matthew, Mark and Luke?

      April 18, 2014 at 12:57 am |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        No you can't assume that.

        April 18, 2014 at 1:01 am |
  3. Dyslexic doG

    One quick look around you at all the misery and desperate struggle for existence in most of the world is proof that there is no god who designed and created this existence.

    Or if there is a god who designed it then he is utterly inept because it could hardly be more poorly designed.

    Or if this is all his design and his plan to his exact specifications, then he is an evil and nasty and vain and insecure and inept and utterly capricious creature who designed it to cause us pain and to derive his own amusement from our torture.

    You pick. Any argument you make for religion is so flimsy it collapses at the slightest examination and requires a retreat into mysticism which is the first refuge of the cornered fool.

    April 18, 2014 at 12:20 am |
    • justpro86

      God openly admitted that his first creation was "GOOD" not perfect... There is plenty of good reasons not make his first creation NOT PERFECT... He gives man kind the free will to believe whatever he or she wants because he wants TRUE LOVE from his creation and the only ones who will enjoy his new creation which he will create on the 8th day will be for those who believe and truly love and appreciate everything God has done which includes give each and everyone life...

      April 18, 2014 at 1:37 am |
      • observer

        God so badly misjudged how things would turn out that the very first woman he created wiped out his plan for people living forever. Then the very FIRST HUMAN BABY murdered the second human baby. Things got so bad that God scrapped the idea of freewill so that he could kill virtually every person on the earth, except for an immoral loser like Noah and his family.

        April 18, 2014 at 2:01 am |
        • honeykira

          Correction, Observer. Woman was the very last of God's creations, and He has a higher regard for us than man. Just look at how he formed me. I am curvaceous and my skin is soft and pleasing to the touch. My hair is silken and my breath is sweet. In fact, no man can resist my physical beauty. All men fall powerless at my feet, desiring to touch and hold me fast. As for man, you are hard and strongly made, and you can build me (and our children) a durable shelter. We complement one another.

          While it is true that Eve (Hebrew for "bringer of life" or "woman") took the first bite, it wasn't until Adam (Hebrew for "man" or adama for "earth" or "of the earth") began eating the fruit when both of their eyes were opened (Gen. 3:6-7).

          By the way, it's men who create wars and bring destruction to this world. It is not us, the women, who are the causing it.

          April 18, 2014 at 11:17 am |
    • honeykira

      doGGie, we all inherited dying and death from our progenitors. The principle notion behind Genesis is that our biological bodies are capable of living indefinitely. Our bodies can be made capable of resisting any and all forms of viruses, sickness and disease. If we were to be pierced or stabbed, our bodies would quickly repair and heal. What is "wild" can be easily "tamed" by just the slightest of tweaks to the building blocks of our DNA. Science has proved to us that many things are possible.

      Let's start with the premise that I don't ever want to die. I want to live forever. I want to continue experiencing this "existence" that I have been born into with my sentience intact. My sentience defines who I am.

      I am. I exist.

      Many people in this modern day and age are constantly searching the skies for outer-space aliens and UFOs. People are always questioning if there are any other life forms "out there" - life forms that might even look something like us! And we are not the first to do so.

      So, when a sentient being tells me that He actually does exist (Exodus 3:14), I'm listening. By doing so, I'm testing Him all the time by following His instructions.

      I'll tell you, doGGie, He hasn't yet proven Himself wrong to me. Where He's going to take me on this amazing journey of infinite sentient existence, I just don't know, but I'm having a really great relationship with Him right now that I am NEVER going to let go of Him! =)

      April 18, 2014 at 9:56 am |
  4. Dyslexic doG

    What sort of asinine god spends so much time and effort and goodness to create from nothing a perfect universe and a perfect existence with all of its intricacy ... and then tricks Eve into eating an apple so that he can then undo his master work that he put so much time and effort into and turn it into the barely holding together chaos that we see today that he has to constantly micromanage? Seriously? Seriously?!?!

    April 18, 2014 at 12:18 am |
  5. chakley

    Christianity didn't steal Easter, Early Romans twisted Paganism into Christianity for cultural acceptance that still persists today in American culture. The early Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 AD. Why would the Romans then embrace Christian roots of a religion they kicked out? Its more accurate to say the early Romans stole Passover and other Holy Days from the Christians.

    April 18, 2014 at 12:12 am |
  6. justpro86

    There are some who will argue that the scriptures themselves prove Jesus was crucified on a Friday. They invoke Mark 15:42-47, which states that Jesus was crucified the day before the Sabbath and Luke 23:50-54 which states that His crucifixion took place "as the Sabbath drew on." However, the Sabbath being referred to in these scriptures was not the weekly Sabbath, but rather a high Sabbath. Notice the words of the apostle John.

    The Jews, therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (Jn 19:31).

    The Bible indicates that there are seven "high days." These days are described in Leviticus 23 and were kept by the Jews in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus’ death as well as the New Testament Church that would emerge under the leadership of Peter and the disciples.

    The specific Sabbath being referred to in Mark 15, Luke 23, and John 19:31 was the First Day of Unleavened Bread. This Holy Day took place in the first month on the fifteenth day of the month of the Hebrew calendar. In the year Jesus was crucified this day took place on Thursday. This being the case, Jesus would have been crucified on a Wednesday and buried at the end of the day. It is important to understand that this particular week, there were two Sabbaths – a high Sabbath (Thursday) and the weekly Sabbath (Saturday). Both these Sabbaths come into play during the time of Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection

    April 17, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
    • otoh2

      What kind of a stupid, sloppy, inept god leaves such poor, unverifiable evidence of its heroic feat? Purportedly the most earthshaking event since the beginning of time and 'he' 'writes', or allows to be written, the flimsy, easily-contested, hearsay stories that believers have!

      April 17, 2014 at 10:20 pm |
      • aslamproductions

        Thank you for your comment. I am trying to fight them off with their endless rebuttals. One guy said the Shroud of Turin is proof of Jesus' existence although it has been scientifically proven to be a fake, also Josephus' account of Jesus written 50 years after Horus' I mean… Jesus' death. One person told me I am upset because I cannot accept the FACT that the god of the bible is real. It goes on and on.

        April 17, 2014 at 10:26 pm |
        • justpro86

          Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development published a final report last month on the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, after five years of experiments and studies.
          It was identified that the Shroud of Turin's image was created by an extremely powerful flash of light, so powerful that Luigi Garlaschelli, a professor of chemistry at Pavia University, described it as unearthly, "The implications are… that the image was formed by a burst of UV energy so intense it could only have been supernatural."
          MSNBC provides an excellent article by one of the Enea researchers that states, "They don't go so far as to claim a miracle. But the fact that UV laser blasters didn't exist in the 13th century, let alone in Jesus' day, strongly implies that they suspect something out of the ordinary was going on.

          Once again wrong

          April 17, 2014 at 11:09 pm |
      • justpro86

        Your wrong it is not easily-contested but proven by science... IF God was so stupid than how in the world can you breathe the breath of life and how can creation around us be so complex... Perhaps the question is how can anybody be so stupid to not believe that God does not exist.

        April 17, 2014 at 10:53 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Even if intelligent design turned out to be true, that DOES NOT prove God exists. There are an infinite number of possible sources for the universe including Zeus or a committee of zombies or a different god who is much more compassionate, logical, and intelligent than the often vain, mass-killing god portrayed in the Bible.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:24 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          I feel like Justapro must be a troll… I find it impossible to believe that people really think like that.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:28 pm |
        • justpro86

          Yes it DOES prove god exist... Get real

          April 17, 2014 at 11:45 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Now I can tell you are just a troll.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:49 pm |
        • justpro86

          LOL Nope

          April 17, 2014 at 11:50 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Let me break it to you, there are many things that are complicated in life. Easily explained through science. What scary natural phenomena do you not understand? Your arguments sound like they are coming from a 12 year old child.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:31 pm |
        • justpro86

          LMAO No let me break it to you... Our bodies did not generate or create themselves... An engine cannot make it self it needs a designer... Just like every thing around you the universe and the Laws of physics prove that God exists... Are you that Flippin Dense and arrogant... Your arguments are more of a 5 year old... "But I don't see god so he does not exist" BS Look around you genius it does not take a flippin rocket scientist...

          April 17, 2014 at 11:47 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          There is no talking rationality with someone who is delusional like yourself. I guess you never took a biology or physics course?

          April 17, 2014 at 11:52 pm |
        • justpro86

          LOL apparently you did not

          April 18, 2014 at 12:11 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Now you are just being ridiculous. Really?

          April 18, 2014 at 12:17 am |
        • midwest rail

          There is a significant difference between evidence that you have deemed sufficient and actual proof. Words have meaning.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:52 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86

          "the Laws of physics prove that God exists"

          There isn't ONE SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT announced in the Bible and the Bible, besides getting science "facts" wrong, claims that all the laws of physics are OPTIONAL.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:53 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I'm pretty sure there are some Christians that know more about biology and physics than you.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:54 pm |
        • justpro86

          There isn't ONE SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT announced in the Bible and the Bible, besides getting science "facts" wrong, claims that all the laws of physics are OPTIONAL.–Observer

          I just listed a few scientific findings that proves the Bible true apparently you know nothing about the laws of physics...the deist or theist says that God designed the universe with just the right laws of physics. Note that neither the multiverse nor the "God hypothesis" is testable. However, the "God hypothesis" is much simpler. The naturalistic explanation requires the presence of a complicated, unproved super universe that has the capacity to randomly spew out an infinite number of universes with different laws of physics. How does this hypothetical super universe know how to do this? Why would it even want to do this? Ultimately, why should there be any universe at all? None of these questions are logically explained by naturalism. Only an intelligent Being would be motivated and expected to produce any kind of universe such as what we see. If we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon, we would eliminate the super universe/multi-universe explanation in favor of the simpler God-designed universe model. The evidence for design in the universe and biology is so strong that Antony Flew, a long-time proponent of atheism, renounced his atheism in 2004 and now believes that the existence of a Creator is required to explain the universe and life in it. Likewise, Frank Tipler, Professor of the Department of Mathematics at Tulane University, and a former atheist, not only became a theist, but is now a born-again Christian because of the laws of physics.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:02 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Delusional. That's all I can say. The problem here is you assume since something cannot be explained, or because you do not understand the field of quantum mechanics that it is impossible and only god can account for these things. Again I go back to Poseidon and the ancient greeks. "Why does the earth shake? How does it know how to do this?" Must be Poseidon. Now we know about plate tectonics. But then someone like you will ask, how do the plates know how to move? Because of the pressure exerted from he earth's molten core.

          Your argument is completely unintelligent and jumps immediately to "God is the answer". It is very scary to know there are people like you in the US… or wherever you are from. It's a good thing to note however that religion is on the decline accross the western world. It's fall cannot come fast enough.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:11 am |
        • justpro86

          My argument has been more intelligent than anything that you threw at me....It is very scary to see how dense some people are... Also there have been archaeology that confirms events in the bible actually did happen

          April 18, 2014 at 12:27 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Archaeology has confirmed nothing. There are only a few nutcases who say they have found evidence of Noah's Ark etc… The holy sites in Jerusalem are holy ONLY because the CHURCH says they are. Don't you realize you will not convince me of your silly mythology?

          April 18, 2014 at 12:33 am |
        • justpro86

          Located 30 km. southwest of Jerusalem in the valley of Elah, Khirbet Qeiyafa was a heavily fortified city at the time of King David. Numerous religious and other artifacts were recovered from the site, including several shrines, tools and pottery. However, the shrines were quite different from those of the surrounding Philistines and Canaanites, since no images of human beings or animals were associated with the site. According to the biblical commands, the Israelites were not to make or worship images of human beings or animals (Exodus 20:4, Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 5:8, 4:15-18, 27:15, Romans 1:22-25).4 The religious objects at Khirbet Qeiyafa included five standing stones (Massebot), two basalt altars, two pottery libation vessels and two portable shrines.5 The other commandment that seems to have been followed at Khirbet Qeiyafa involved the eating of only "clean" animals (Leviticus 11:1-46). Although hundreds of bones were found at the site, none of them were from pigs (in contrast to surrounding sites), since those animals were not to be eaten according to the Old Testament laws.6 According to Garfinkel, "Over the years, thousands of animal bones were found, including sheep, goats and cattle, but no pigs.

          The archeological site at Khirbet Qeiyafa not only shows that the written Hebrew language was in existence by the 10th century B.C., but that the Old Testament laws were being practiced at that time. The finds blow apart the claims that Old Testament was not in existence until hundreds of years after King David lived. According to Professor Garfinkel, "Thus, various suggestions that completely deny the biblical tradition regarding King David and argue that he was a mythological figure, or just a leader of a small tribe, are now shown to be wrong."5 Once again, archeological evidence has been found to support claims found in the Old Testament books of the Bible.

          So yes it has confirmed the Old Testament

          April 18, 2014 at 12:45 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Confirms the old testament? This only confirms that the Hebrews followed their own teachings. You need to finish High School.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:49 am |
        • justpro86

          You need common sense... This confirms that King David exists...Dr. Marjo Korpel, a Utrecht University Old Testament scholar, has published a study detailing why a 9th century BC seal probably belonged to the infamous Queen Jezebel.5 According to Korpel, the seal contains symbols indicating it belonged to a woman probably of royal lineage. in addition, it is exceptionally large compared to the seals possessed by ordinary citizens. The inscription's letters spell (l�)yzbl, which is the Hebrew spelling of Jezebel.

          More proof the Bible is far from fiction... LOL Fiction Get real LOL

          April 18, 2014 at 1:02 am |
        • aslamproductions

          We have been talking about Jesus and not King David. Also if you read your own cut and paste text, it says "probably". Probably does not prove anything. What else you got?

          April 18, 2014 at 1:10 am |
        • justpro86

          Canadian archeologist Russell Adams, along with Thomas Levy of the University of California at San Diego and Mohammad Najjar of the Jordanian Department of Antiquities recently discovered a monumental tenth century B.C. fortress at a site called Khirbat en-Nahas (30 miles south of the Dead Sea in Jordan).2 The use of high-precision radiocarbon dating (14C) methods on some of the relics firmly established that occupation of the site had began in the eleventh century B.C.

          These early dates establish the existence of the Edomite kingdom at the time King David and his son Solomon ruled over Israel. The Old Testament claims that David conquered the Edomites and placed garrisons there.3 The Bible claims that David ruled from ~1010 B.C. to 970 B.C., which is directly correlated with the dates determined at Khirbat en-Nahas. Now that 14C dating is being used to accurately determine archeological sites in the Middle East, we should be getting a better idea of the accuracy of Old Testament histories.

          And yes it does prove something

          April 18, 2014 at 1:15 am |
        • aslamproductions

          It proves there was an Edomite Kingdom nothing else. Also in archeology as any science correlation does not prove causation. Anything else? Why don't you just send me the link to the website where you are cutting and pasting this?

          April 18, 2014 at 1:24 am |
        • justpro86

          Yes there was an Edomite Kingdom which proves the bible is not fiction I need to say nothing more...

          April 18, 2014 at 1:33 am |
        • aslamproductions

          It proves an Edomite Kingdom but not King Solomon… Proving one thing from the Old Testament does not make the entire thing true. How can you not understand this? I am guessing your age to be somewhere between 14-16?

          April 18, 2014 at 1:43 am |
        • justpro86

          In 1868, a stone tablet was discovered in Jordan. It was written by a Moabite king named Mesha, an enemy of Israel.

          The stone dates to around 840 BC, less than 200 years after David and it provides the first known reference to the "House of David" outside the Bible.

          "And 'House of David,' it means 'dynasty of David.' So we know that there was a guy called David, and he had a dynasty," Garfinkel said. "Okay, so now this is absolutely clear that David is not a mythological figure. So the mythological paradigm collapsed in one moment."

          More than a hundred years later the same phrase, "House of David," turned up on another stone, this time in northern Israel.

          It was written about 200 years after David's rule - again, by one of Israel's enemies, Hazel, the king of Damascus. "He said, I killed 70 kings. I killed a king from Israel and a king from the House of David," Garfinkel explained.

          One of David's greatest victories took place in the valley of Elah. This is where the young shepherd boy killed the giant Goliath, and it's one of the few places where you can still catch a glimpse of the Israel that David knew.

          Nearby are the ruins of the Philistine city of Gath, the hometown of Goliath and the remains of the brook where David found the stone that killed him.

          And high above the valley is a fortress that's thousands of years old to the local Bedouin. This place is still known as "Khirbet Daoud" or "David's Ruin." It's the only iron age city in Israel that's perfectly preserved and almost frozen in time.

          "For us as archaeologists, this is one of the richest sites in Israel. This is like a biblical Pompeii," Garfinkel said.

          The Hebrew name is "Khirbet Qeiyafa" or "Fortress of Elah." Garfinkel first uncovered the city in 2007. He recovered some burnt olive pits from the site and sent them to Oxford University for carbon-dating. The results surprised even Garfinkel himself. "It turns out that this beautiful city and all the finds is from about 1020 to 980 BC, and this is exactly the time of King David," he said.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:51 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Can you provide a link to where you got this information? Instead of cutting and pasting it I would like to see it for myself. Also.. this still doesn't prove the existence of God.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:54 am |
        • justpro86

          It proves the validity of the Bible... The same book who has been around as long as 2,000 years and still relevant today unlike Greek mythology and other pagan worship... God once again is proven by the vast creation around you... The complexity in life and the human body and DNA which was designed by a God... One thing everything in nature and the cosmos that obeys the laws of physics cannot just happen by freak accident like many evolutionists and atheist apologists claim... Its impossible....

          April 18, 2014 at 1:58 am |
        • aslamproductions

          I hear god also designed the new Audi RS7. It's so amazing only god could have designed it. I feel like I am chatting to someone from the Middle Ages. You know it is 2014, and all of the things you listed have been discovered through science and not some nonsensical passage in the bible.

          April 18, 2014 at 2:04 am |
        • justpro86

          Than why is it in the writtings of ancient Israel? Guess what recent science proves the bible to be correct... The bible already had the answers that the scientist wasted time testing... However the Bible did teach test everything and guess what scientists did and guess what the Bible is not so fiction or myth at all....

          April 18, 2014 at 2:14 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Are you under the influence of something? I couldn't understand your last comment. It made no sense. "Teach tested"? What does that mean? The Bible has nothing scientific in it. It is a book of myths meant to scare and control people. The god you worship does not exist. You know there are 4 billion people in the world who are not Christian. They look at Cnristianity for what it is: Fairy tales. You in turn look at their religions in the same way; nothing but fairy tales. The truth is all religions are nothing but fairy tales.

          April 18, 2014 at 2:23 am |
        • justpro86

          Your absolutely wrong... If there is no God than there is no evil simple as that... If there is no god than nobody has the right to claim they know morality and what is right and what is wrong and what is the purpose in life anyways? Fine we came from nothing so nobody can say if I killed you is wrong because what I did is not evil because its man made and men make mistakes... If there is no God than Hitler was not really evil but doing what he thought was right... Sense man evented evil than.

          Sorry fool but I refuse to believe in nothing but the almighty God because we know from the bible what is right and what is wrong through the ten commandments... Evil was created by God to trial us and to test who truly belongs in Gods New future creation... I mean come on we are not empty shells we have souls we have minds... None of that can just poof into existence from nothing... Sorry pal but you are the one who is on something...

          April 18, 2014 at 9:22 am |
        • justpro86

          Ok all you got in any arguments with me is petty useless insults that I am delusional, I am 14-16 etc.. While I provided you facts and discoveries and scientific evidence... Boy for a 14 year old I so out smarted someone who believes he is older than me LOL seriously your age insults are week and you little boy needs to grow up...

          April 18, 2014 at 1:52 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Well either you are 14 or horribly uneducated. You have failed to prove anything or provide facts to back up your statement that god exists. You have failed. Now go home before your mom gets worried.

          April 18, 2014 at 2:02 am |
        • justpro86

          Wow sir you really don't know science... I have provided facts but your ignorance keeps coming back...Your like a little kid... I say "2+4=6" and you say "no it is not" I say yes just add 4 with 6" You say "you still fail to prove anything and nuh uh your just a stupid kid"

          For all I know you provided me nothing... Here is fact...Atheists say they have the answer to why there is something rather than nothing—the nothing created it! However, their explanation takes science and turns it on its head—performing miracles of creation through unknown physics or mechanisms that are extremely unlikely to occur. The simplest explanation for the existence of all the something we see is that an extremely intelligent being, God, willed it to happen for His own purposes, and left evidence of that purpose in the nature of His creation and His communication with the creatures He created. The important things in life are not derived from the stuff we can see, but from the One who created it....

          Trust me it takes more to believe in evolution than it does creation...

          April 18, 2014 at 2:11 am |
        • aslamproductions

          You have not proven anything. You are delusional. There is no debating with a delusional person. By the nature of your nonsensical rebuttals I can tell you are still a child, if not physically then mentally. I also asked you to provide the link to those archeological "proofs" but you haven't because then I will see they're from some Christian website.

          April 18, 2014 at 2:19 am |
        • justpro86

          Of course there is no debating a delusional person because apparently I have been debating one all night... I already provide sound proof of Archaeological finds mostly by christian archaeologists because christians would most likely go and look for proof of the bible because of course Atheists will not because that will only hurt their credability... Problem with atheists once they believe something they dont want to know the truth.. But there were several cases of Atheists turning christian once they discover the truth... An atheist turned christian just based on the Laws of physics that prove that their is a god because nothing can write such complex laws but a super intelligent being... You can call me a child all you want but in reality its you thats portraying a child... Me I displayed my facts supported by people with far more credentials than you and I combined...

          April 18, 2014 at 9:14 am |
        • ursusobesus

          How does that prove anything?

          April 18, 2014 at 8:46 am |
        • justpro86

          It proves of a ancient civilized nation that existed that only the Bible gave account to. it proves that it really did exist this proof tells us that the Bible is far from fiction and fairy tale..

          April 18, 2014 at 9:26 am |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Speaking of KNOWING NOTHING about physics, I guess you think that the law of inertia means that the sun and moon can suddenly stop in their orbits.

          lol.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:06 am |
        • justpro86

          No not at all and neither does the bible say anything about that LOL

          April 18, 2014 at 12:12 am |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Why not take a break and ACTUALLY READ a Bible.

          lol. You are CLUELESS what it says.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:19 am |
        • justpro86

          No it says your clueless to believe that God does not exist

          April 18, 2014 at 12:43 am |
        • chakley

          @observer

          "There isn't ONE SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT announced in the Bible and the Bible, besides getting science "facts" wrong, claims that all the laws of physics are OPTIONAL."

          God said rotate your crops, then rest the land. Man chooses to instead pump the ground full of chemicals, and then wonder why the land goes barren with less nutritious food.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:22 am |
        • chakley

          @observer

          ""There isn't ONE SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT announced in the Bible and the Bible, besides getting science "facts" wrong, claims that all the laws of physics are OPTIONAL."

          God said you can eat the seal life that has fins and scales, man instead chooses to eat the ecosystem that supports what has fins and scales, then wonders why wild caught fish are on the decline.

          God gave us direction on what meat we could eat, except some nations insist on eating bat soup and monkey brain and wonder why they get disease.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:30 am |
        • aslamproductions

          According to the Old Testament you are also not supposed to eat PIG or Shellfish. I am guessing you don't follow that one. Or do you just pick and choose what parts of your magic book to follow?

          April 18, 2014 at 12:35 am |
        • chakley

          @observer

          Surely your physics instructor will tell you how its possible that 4 blood moons in a row, separated by exactly 6 months each, each landing on the same 2 significant Jewish holidays each year, with the the 4th and grand finale blood moon happening to also be a super moon, visible from Israel is possible.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:38 am |
        • observer

          chakley

          (Gen. 1:29-30) “God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.”

          So eat all the POISONOUS plants? lol.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:39 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Hah. Good one. Thank you for that.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:42 am |
        • chakley

          Why would you guess I don't follow that one? You will find me at a farmer's market and not some bacon festival that celebrates eating an animal that eats it own feces.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:41 am |
        • observer

          chakley

          "Surely your physics instructor will tell you how its possible that 4 blood moons in a row, separated by exactly 6 months each, each landing on the same 2 significant Jewish holidays each year"

          lol. Passover is tied INTO the full moon. That's why the date keeps changing unlike Christmas.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:45 am |
        • observer

          chakley

          Fortunately, the farmers market isn't allowed to sell you all the poisonous plants that God claimed were okay to eat.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:48 am |
        • chakley

          Yes but why Passover and Feast of Tabernacles specifically, 2 years in a row? what's the odds of that? Why not some other month?

          April 18, 2014 at 12:53 am |
        • observer

          chakley,

          Think this through. There are 12 months, so ON AVERAGE this will happen once every 12 tetrads.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:58 am |
        • chakley

          Since 1 AD, there have only been 7 tetrads prior to this year. Most recently in 1949/50 and 1967/68 also happened to be on Passover/Tabernacle each time. Before that you have to go back to 1492 which also happened to be on Passover.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:04 am |
        • observer

          chakley,

          Since it will be one year until the earth is in the same spot of its orbit around the sun, that could account for the increased frequency. This is a matter of physics and mathematics, not some cosmic magic. The earth existed for MILLIONS of years before the first Passover.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:13 am |
        • justpro86

          Yes matter of physics and mathematics only written by a super intelligent being known as God... Thanks for proving that...

          April 18, 2014 at 1:16 am |
        • observer

          justpro86

          Your "super intelligent being known as God" claimed that the value of pi was 3.0.

          OOOOPS.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:21 am |
        • justpro86

          Did he or are you just putting words in your creator LOL stop being dense

          April 18, 2014 at 1:30 am |
        • tallulah131

          What an utterly silly thing to say, justpro. Is this really the best "logic" believers have?

          April 18, 2014 at 1:23 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Yes, This is the best he can come up with. The thing is that believers are so delusional they will twist and turn the facts to fit their crazy beliefs. You should scroll down and see some of his comments. They are good for a laugh.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:28 am |
        • justpro86

          Facts are not silly

          April 18, 2014 at 1:32 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Look up the meaning of FACT you fool.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:41 am |
        • justpro86

          I did and the Bible has plenty of them

          April 18, 2014 at 1:47 am |
        • otoh2

          chakley

          "Since 1 AD, there have only been 7 tetrads prior to this year."

          What's so special about a tetrad? There have been more than that in some centuries – 8 in one of them!

          Lunar Eclipse Stats:
          From year 0001 to 0100 there were 57 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 0101 to 0200 there were 67 total eclipses, 3 tetrads
          From year 0201 to 0300 there were 82 total eclipses, 6 tetrads
          From year 0301 to 0400 there were 82 total eclipses, 4 tetrads
          From year 0401 to 0500 there were 66 total eclipses, 3 tetrads
          From year 0501 to 0600 there were 62 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 0601 to 0700 there were 58 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 0701 to 0800 there were 68 total eclipses, 3 tetrads
          From year 0801 to 0900 there were 89 total eclipses, 8 tetrads
          From year 0901 to 1000 there were 78 total eclipses, 6 tetrads
          From year 1001 to 1100 there were 62 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 1101 to 1200 there were 59 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 1201 to 1300 there were 60 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 1301 to 1400 there were 77 total eclipses, 6 tetrads
          From year 1401 to 1500 there were 83 total eclipses, 4 tetrads
          From year 1501 to 1600 there were 77 total eclipses, 6 tetrads
          From year 1601 to 1700 there were 61 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 1701 to 1800 there were 60 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 1801 to 1900 there were 62 total eclipses, 0 tetrads
          From year 1901 to 2000 there were 81 total eclipses, 5 tetrads
          – NASA

          April 18, 2014 at 2:10 am |
        • otoh2

          Edit: What's so special about 4 tetrads?

          April 18, 2014 at 2:11 am |
        • observer

          Believers say they have the answer to why there is something rather than nothing - God came from NOTHING and then created EVERYTHING from NOTHING.

          Their explanation takes science and turns it on its head. It claims that ALL the laws of science are OPTIONAL.

          April 18, 2014 at 2:15 am |
        • justpro86

          No Science and the bible co exist

          April 18, 2014 at 9:07 am |
        • midwest rail

          " None of that can just poof into existence from nothing "
          Please cite one reputable scientist (or anyone on these pages, for that matter) who make that assertion.

          April 18, 2014 at 9:37 am |
        • justpro86

          Evolutionists all over the world pretty much claim nothing came to something...

          April 18, 2014 at 10:06 am |
        • midwest rail

          No, they do not. Deliberately misrepresenting science does your cause more harm than good. Again, if there is a reputable scientist making that claim, where is your citation ?

          April 18, 2014 at 10:08 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          LET's Religiosity Law #8 – If you routinely ignore physics, geology, astronomy, biology, etc., and are happy with “god did it” then you are mentally retarded.

          April 18, 2014 at 9:46 am |
        • justpro86

          God did it through physics, geology, astronomy, biology, etc...

          April 18, 2014 at 10:07 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          “The Bible: proof that gullible people will believe any dumbass thing that you tell them” ~LET

          April 18, 2014 at 10:27 am |
        • justpro86

          "the Bible" Most accurate book that intelligent people will understand...

          April 18, 2014 at 10:32 am |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          You are obviously not very bright... I don't have time for ignorant parrots... ciao

          April 18, 2014 at 10:51 am |
        • justpro86

          LMao how em I not bright... Of course I display facts you cannot refute you go ahead and toss mindless insults and disappear lOL hilarious

          April 18, 2014 at 10:58 am |
      • rgalinato

        You didn't read any of it. Those aren't flimsy writings... they're scripture. Those weren't writers or poets or geniuses who wrote them. They were fishermen, regular guys. In 2000 years are people going to find evidence any of us exist? Any stories or scriptures or clothing?

        April 17, 2014 at 11:21 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          They are flimsy. They were written centuries after his death based on the word of so called eyewtinesses. That is called hearsay. You belief system is based on hearsay. They don't even allow that in a court of law. If you have to revert to a "Biblical" or scriptural argument to prove the existence of Jesus then you automatically lose. Science is the only way to prove somethings existence one way or another. If it can not be proven to exist mathematically, or through thorough scientific experimentation and investigation then it does not exist. You know the Greeks used to use the god Poseidon as the cause of earthquakes. Now we know earthquakes are caused by tectonic plates shifting. SCIENCE.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:27 pm |
        • otoh2

          Fishermen? The ident'ities of the 4 gospel writers is generally unknown, but even the cobbled-together, traditional bios of those writers does not identify them as fishermen.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:32 pm |
        • justpro86

          aslamproductions Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.

          More scientific evidence in the Bible: Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..."

          More evidence: "Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth" (Time, Dec. 1976).

          Wow Science in the Bible

          April 17, 2014 at 11:56 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          So does Mayan cosmology and every other ancient religion. You can try as hard as you want but you will not convince me of the existence of your mythological God.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:03 am |
        • justpro86

          My God is not of myth but I already provided enough evidence to prove his existence and mayan cosmology does not...So basically, the Mayan model of the universe was "layers" in the following order – 1 Earth – 2 Moon and Clouds – 3 The Stars – 4 The Sun – 5 Venus – 6 Unidentified items and comets – 7 to 12 Various gods, etc.

          They placed Earth at the centre of the universe. Wrong.

          They placed Earth stationary, with the rest of the universe revolving around it. Wrong

          They placed the Sun further away than the stars. Wrong

          They placed Venus further away than the stars. Wrong

          Please spare me the laughter

          April 18, 2014 at 12:11 am |
        • aslamproductions

          I am glad you know how to use Wikipedia. The existence of your god has not been proven. Never has been and never will. You are a brainwashed individual.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:13 am |
        • justpro86

          Nope I only use facts discovered by individuals with creditials that is above both me and you

          April 18, 2014 at 12:43 am |
        • aslamproductions

          "Stars sang together" – proves nothing about radio waves. Also it sounds more like the rantings of a lunatic. The book of Job is the most ridiculous book in the Bible. Why would a god perpetrate such horrible actions on someone who believed in him? Your god is a psychopath. As far as your quote from Time Magazine in 1976… It's from 1976. That's all you have? Keep searching the internet.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:06 am |
        • justpro86

          LOL Stars sang togther does prove radio waves but explained in a different matter geez you know nothing at all..... Once again "During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine)." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, "Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence."

          April 18, 2014 at 12:14 am |
        • aslamproductions

          It's nice to know you can cut and paste.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:18 am |
        • justpro86

          Its nice that I go off of fact not fiction

          April 18, 2014 at 12:48 am |
        • aslamproductions

          But it is fiction. The Bible is fiction. End of story.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:52 am |
        • justpro86

          No it is not fiction end of story

          April 18, 2014 at 1:00 am |
        • aslamproductions

          You believe the earth was created in 6 days? You believe the earth is only 6000 years old? You believe some guy named Noah built a huge ship and managed to put every living creature on it. Also, think this one through.. if god is the god of all people, and Jesus the savior of mankind, why didn't Jesus also appear to the Chinese, Indians, Aboriginees, or Native Americans? He was only the savior for the Jews in the Middle East? The god of all mankind only chose to appear and lead a handful of people? You need to learn deductive reasoning. Maybe you'll learn that by your senior year of High School.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:06 am |
        • justpro86

          Once again I don't believe in the ridiculous 6,000 years old earth... Don't put words in my mouth... The earth I SAID IS Approximately 4.5 Million years old or more... Maybe you will learn something from high school... OHH yeah of course not in high school it is taught we MAGICALLY poofed from nothing... LMAO makes me roll over laughing... I have had a number of skeptics complain that it is unfair for God to choose the Jews as His people over all others. Although it would be unfair for God to show partiality to one people group, this is not what was meant when the Bible said that God chose the Jewish people. The Bible indicates that God chose the Jewish people as the people through whom He would send the Messiah. Being chosen did not always bring great blessings, since the Jews were held to a higher level of accountability, and were judged for their failures. The Bible makes it clear that God does not show partiality, since He created all people. He commands His people to behave likewise.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:13 am |
        • aslamproductions

          You just outed yourself. It is actually 4.5 BILLION years old. If the bible is FACT like you claimed over and over again, then how can you reconcile this gross miscalculation of the earth's age? The skeptics are correct in their problem with choosing the jews. Obviously this all loving god of all humanity only cares about a small group of people and is not a universal god as Christians claim. It is a religion invented to try and control only a small group of people which unfortunately spread amongst illiterate ancient peoples.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:21 am |
        • justpro86

          My bad find 4.5 Billion years ago is what I meant thanks for the correction... If the Bible was not fact it would not have survived so many decades and century it would of been extinct just like greek mythology... Science agrees with the bible and everything else.. So does history geez

          April 18, 2014 at 1:32 am |
        • aslamproductions

          I am sorry now you sound just plain daft. "Science agrees with the bible and everything else.. So does history geez". Actually no it doesn't. BTW, There are Eqyptian and Sumerian texts that still survive and are thousands of years older than the bible. They are not "extiinct".

          April 18, 2014 at 1:41 am |
        • otoh2

          justpro,

          The Bible is a book which includes *some* history of primitive Hebrew culture, and *some* good practical advice for beneficial human behavior, but in the main it is a compilation of ancient Middle Eastern historical fiction, myth, legend, superst.ition and fantasy.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:06 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Justpro doesn't understand these things. He is a literalist. I didin't think there were really people as brainwashed as him/her.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:13 am |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          "The Bible makes it clear that God does not show partiality"

          lol. God says to treat local slaves differently than foreign ones.

          Another OOOPS.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:16 am |
        • otoh2

          aslamproductions,

          Good job trying to keep up with justpro – he is in quite an obsessed, manic phase tonight.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:18 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Thanks. It's fun.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:25 am |
        • observer

          justpro86

          "Science agrees with the bible and everything else.."

          Yep. Science agrees that all the LAWS of PHYSICS, etc. are OPTIONAL. lol. lol.

          April 18, 2014 at 1:41 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          justpro: We're very sorry the education system failed you and that your parents were horrible for brainwashing you. The bible is full of lies and with those blinders on, you'll sadly never see it. Grow up and attempt to follow the golden rule...all you do by coming here and sounding like a complete dolt is help to bury your belief system.
          As the late great Carl Sagan stated "Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence." Nothing you have stated proves your god exists, it merely proves that man has a vivid imagination.

          April 18, 2014 at 9:17 am |
  7. martialbob

    Istar, really? Has Canadian Moss ever used this thing called Google? Every read about Eostre? She's represented at times with a rabbit and has a spring festival. Sound familiar, just a little?

    April 17, 2014 at 9:36 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Not so sure about Eostre and the bunny.

      "...when it comes to Eostre there are far more questions than answers. There are no Eostre myths or artifacts, puzzling if she was a widely worshipped deity. "

      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/panmankey/2014/04/easter-myths/

      April 17, 2014 at 9:52 pm |
      • aslamproductions

        It is very easy to pull any website off the internet to support your apologist standpoint. The thing is you believe in something that does not exist? Why do adults not believe in Santa Claus? Because it was a myth created to scare children into being good… just like mans creation of god. Enough already. Go outside and pray to your god for anything… watch and see if anything happens. No nothing? Hmmm, that's strange, how could that be?

        April 17, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I provided a link to an actual Pagan writer. She says the Eostre theory is not that credible.

          I pray for knowledge of God's will and the power to carry it out. Nothing Jesus says suggests we should go outside and tell God to meet our demands by giving us what we "pray" for.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:06 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Well good for you. BTW. She claims she is a pagan writer, but it is easy to ready her "article" and see that she is not. You pray for his will to be done. Meaning, you can't actually ask anything of him because he does not exist. Can I ask why you do not believe in Zeus, Horus, or Vishnu?

          April 17, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          That doesn't mean I can't ask for anything, I ask God to help me do his will.

          Zeus, Horus and Vishnu have not revealed themselves to be real to me.

          Fact is, the eostre theory is sketchy.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:18 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          So you are telling me Jesus revealed himself to you? He came to you one night in all of his glory? Sounds like a hallucination.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:22 pm |
        • justpro86

          Sorry as much as you dislike it but the fact is God of the bible exists....

          April 17, 2014 at 10:18 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          There is no FACT. You are delusional.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:23 pm |
        • justpro86

          Nope thats where your wrong LOL

          April 17, 2014 at 10:55 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Then can you produce one FACT? Or are you going to quote something from you big book of magic? If so then you have already lost the argument.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:03 pm |
        • justpro86

          You can never win an argument against the Bible.. Nobody has

          April 17, 2014 at 11:12 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Argument against the Bible? Except for the fact that nothing in it has ever proven to actually happen? You don't even know the history of your own religion or how the bible came into being. You know there are whole books of the "bible" that were deemed heretical and not included. Do you really believe the bible literally word for word? In the year 2014? You believe the world is 6000 years old?

          April 17, 2014 at 11:20 pm |
        • justpro86

          With all of the massive manuscript evidence you would think there would be massive discrepancies – just the opposite is true. New Testament manuscripts agree in 99.5% (5) of the text (compared to only 95% for the Iliad). Most of the discrepancies are in spelling and word order. A few words have been changed or added. There are two passages that are disputed but no discrepancy is of any doctrinal significance (i.e., none would alter basic Christian doctrine). Most Bibles include the options as footnotes when there are discrepancies. How could there be such accuracy over a period of 1,400 years of copying? Two reasons: The scribes that did the copying had meticulous methods for checking their copies for errors. 2) The Holy Spirit made sure we would have an accurate copy of God's word so we would not be deceived. The Mormons, theological liberals as well as other cults and false religions such as Islam that claim the Bible has been tampered with are completely proven false by the extensive, historical manuscript evidence.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:43 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          So your mythology is less ridiculous than Islam or Mormonism?

          April 17, 2014 at 11:48 pm |
        • justpro86

          Yes based off of proven scientific fact that Islam and Mormonism does not include... A big example: "During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine)." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, "Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence

          April 17, 2014 at 11:50 pm |
        • ddeevviinn

          " Go outside and pray to your God for anything... watch and see if anything happens. Nothing. "

          You're confusing the Christian God with that of the Alladin's genie.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:21 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          How is that any different? Believing in Genies is no different than believing in your god. The truth is you can't prove god exists. I just asked your god to prove he exists and guess what? Nothing happened.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:30 pm |
        • rgalinato

          Saint Nick was a real person

          April 17, 2014 at 10:36 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          God is not like a genie.

          For me, I have to seek humility to see God in my life.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:41 pm |
  8. rgalinato

    You can call it what you want and there could be all kinds of history around Easter... but today Christians celebrate the Resurrection of who we believe to be the Christ. Others may have their own Christ. You guys can celebrate whatever you want or nothing at all on Easter r if you want go ahead and celebrate 420 on Easter.

    April 17, 2014 at 8:45 pm |
    • ddeevviinn

      Touche.

      April 17, 2014 at 8:56 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Yes. We understand what you celebrate. But the claim here is that christianity "stole" a preexisting pagan holiday.

      April 18, 2014 at 1:27 am |
  9. redjudas

    To begin, I am actually shocked at the notion that Candida Moss is a professor of the New Testament and Early Christianity. Especially considering the parallels being drawn between Mithras and Jesus that have no factual basis. I am going to assume that the research that was put into making those claims was not real research, but rather a viewing of Religulous. Where can I possibly begin to point out where all the similarities are outright fabrication. Any professor worth their salt would have been able to point out the outright lies comparing the two.

    Mithras was not born of a virgin mother. He burst out of a stone. Unless that rock's name was Mary, there is no comparison. The idea that he died and was resurrected has no actual record. Mithras flew away to the heavens after his Earthly mission was done. He did not die. Claiming that the two stories of deities returning to heaven are similar requires a great deal of stretching.

    There are so many other tales that people compare to the story of Jesus that are just outright fabrication. Entire stories about gods have been rewritten to compare them. The story of Osiris, Isis, and El-Assurus is one of my favourite lies.

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the story of Jesus because I believe it. The fact is that I don't. However, I will not stand by while people fabricate stories to disprove something where there is plenty of legitimate evidence to use. All it does is weaken the point.

    Now, claiming Ishtar is possibly the basis for Easter is not a stretch, as has been pointed out. As someone who has done quite a bit of research on this subject, I can state that language and culture have a way of traveling very great distances. For example. In Sanskrit, we have the word Raja, which means ruler. We also have Ri which means praise. Ri is found in the Rigveda. You can find cognates of these words in Germany as Reich (Empire), Ireland as Ri/Rig (King), and Latin as Rex (King). Essentially speech has extended a great distance. Languages that are otherwise incredibly different often contain very similar words. The use of Ri in Gaelic and Sanskrit date back a very long time. Therefore, it's not a stretch to claim that Eostre, aka Ostara, aka Eastre is probably a cognate of Ishtar. It's a fact that Easter derives it's name from the former, and we have a precedent to claim that the celebration of Ishtar is the same as Eostre.

    April 17, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
    • honeykira

      Wow! I really love how you write! I enjoyed reading your thoughtful and well researched rebuttal! Thank you! =)

      April 17, 2014 at 9:56 pm |
    • kudlak

      So, your criteria for someone being a qualified biblical scholar is whether or not they agree with your personal assumptions about the Bible?

      April 17, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
      • honeykira

        I would say that he's refuted much of what she has written in her blog as having no basis in fact. He's not just simply taking a contrary view from hers, he's calling her out on her version of the "facts."

        April 17, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
  10. aslamproductions

    Of course they stole it. Christianity is nothing more than a reworked version of Ancient Egypt's cult of Horus. Christianity is totally based on various pagan religions. Christians, Jews, and Muslims who fail to see or research these truths about their religions are fools. All religion is nonsense, nothing more than magical thinking. I wish humanity would grow up discard these ridiculous beliefs and move on.

    April 17, 2014 at 7:49 pm |
    • ddeevviinn

      Admittedly, in that I am a Christian mine is a perspective a little more biased than yours. However, I can not help but chuckle when I read the valiant efforts by many on this forum who desperately attempt to create endless parallels between the judeo-christian narrative and that of the Roman/Mesopotamian etc... mythologies. I really do wonder if they have actually ever read the accounts or if there exists some form of " Christianity borrowing from mythology " cliff notes from which they copy and paste.

      April 17, 2014 at 9:35 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        This was meant as a reply to redjudas.

        April 17, 2014 at 9:36 pm |
      • aslamproductions

        I can see there is no point in continuing a discussion with someone like you. Look it up, do your research. How you can actually believe in some mythological figure like Jesus is beyond me. People draw paralells because there are direct relations between them. The most direct is the Egyptian Cult of Horus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM9-8qj_Js8

        April 17, 2014 at 9:55 pm |
        • kudlak

          Jesus was likely as real a historical person as the Emperor Vespasian, but neither were miracle-making gods as far as we can historically validate, despite all the claims that they were.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:00 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          The key word being "likely". In reality there is no evidence he actually ever existed. All we have are texts written 300 years after his so called existence. We have texts written about J.S. Bach 300 years after his death, but we actually have manuscripts, government records, letters, and of course his body to prove he existed. Where are the Roman records of his execution? The Romans kept excellent records… yet there are none regarding this rabble-rouser? Interesting.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:06 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Nope.

          It is not a copy of Horus. The only solid similarity between Jesus and Horus is that they both healed the sick.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:03 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          They were both born of a virgin (Isis), were the only begotten son of God (Osiris), walked on water, healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, and also both were crucified and resurrected after 3 days.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:09 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Horus was not born of a virgin. There is no reference to him walking on water. He didn't die for 3 days, but he did lose an eye in a battle.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

          April 17, 2014 at 10:15 pm |
        • justpro86

          Jesus was real and is the true God in the flesh... Proof comes from his witnesses such as Luke who is probably one of the best historians to live and more proof is that science proves it with the Shroud of Turin which was Jesus's actual burial garments found in an EMPTY TOMB....

          Also Josephus was a Jew who did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God or Christianity. In The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:
          “Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

          April 17, 2014 at 10:15 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Science proves the Shroud of Turin was produced in the 13th Century. So you are wrong on that minor detail. Josephus was also born in the year 37 after the supposed existence of Jesus.. an eyewtiness to something that happened before he was born? What else you got for me?

          April 17, 2014 at 10:21 pm |
        • justpro86

          No it does not... Science proves it was actual cloth of Christ... So I am right... Josephus recounted what actually happened sorry sir but you are wrong

          April 17, 2014 at 10:55 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Sorry but now you have proven how actually unable you are to draw logical conclusions. Science has only proven that the shroud was produced in the 13th century basically a FRAUD. Google: "Shroud of Turin".13th century means it is from the 1200s. How could something from the 1200's have existed in the year 33? It traveled in time? As far as Josephus, you are correct, he was "recounting" something that happaned before he was alive. That is called hearsay. The two things you say are proof of his existence are either fraudulent or hearsay.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:02 pm |
        • justpro86

          Once again wrong...Josephus considered one of the greatest historians of antiquity, independently provides proof and evidence that Jesus was a real person who did exist and also confirms the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross under the orders of Pontius Pilate, thus confirming the Biblical account as well.

          Concerning the Shroud...Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development published a final report last month on the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, after five years of experiments and studies.
          It was identified that the Shroud of Turin's image was created by an extremely powerful flash of light, so powerful that Luigi Garlaschelli, a professor of chemistry at Pavia University, described it as unearthly, "The implications are… that the image was formed by a burst of UV energy so intense it could only have been supernatural."
          MSNBC provides an excellent article by one of the Enea researchers that states, "They don't go so far as to claim a miracle. But the fact that UV laser blasters didn't exist in the 13th century, let alone in Jesus' day, strongly implies that they suspect something out of the ordinary was going on.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:11 pm |
        • otoh2

          justpro86,

          The quote you cite from Josephus has been proved to be a 4th century addition to his writings, most likely by a Christian apologist. Whatever Josephus did write about Jesus was simply reporting the claims of the early Christians about their hero.

          Josephus wrote about Hercules and Ulysses too. Does that mean that they were really actual demigods who performed fantastical feats?

          April 17, 2014 at 11:25 pm |
      • justpro86

        Hislop, in his work The Two Babylons, explains that it was the normal practice of the Catholic church to integrate paganism into its liturgy. This was done to attract pagan converts.

        To conciliate the pagans to nominal Christianity, Rome, pursuing its usual policy, took measures to get the Christian and Pagan festivals amalgamated, and, by a complicated but skillful adjustment of the calendar, it was found no difficult matter, in general, to get Paganism and Christianity – now sunk far in idolatry – in this as in so many other things, to shake hands. (p. 105)

        April 17, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
  11. justpro86

    God is a spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. (Jn. 4:24)

    Easter is not the truth! Further, Jesus also indicated that God could be worshiped in vain when man’s traditions enter into our worship of God.

    He answered and said unto them, "Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honoureth Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.’" (Mk. 7:6-7)

    While giving the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus also explained that it was possible to practice a false Christianity. He then stated that those who engaged in such a practice would not be permitted to enter into God’s Kingdom.

    Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name have cast out devils? And in Thy name done many wonderful works?" And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (Mt. 7:21-23)

    Consider the reaction of those who were not permitted entrance into God’s Kingdom. They were stunned because they thought they could choose how God was to be worshiped.

    April 17, 2014 at 7:03 pm |
    • kudlak

      Can you prove that Easter is not the truth?

      April 17, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
      • justpro86

        I already did if you have read what I posted

        April 17, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
  12. justpro86

    Is Easter Christian? The simple answer is "no." Despite all its beauty and pageantry, Easter is pagan to the core. It’s symbols and traditions do not honor Christ or His sacrifice. On the contrary, they actually mock it. The apostle Paul, in his epistle to the Galatians, issued a stern warning which every true Christian should take very seriously.

    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. (Gal. 6:7)

    The God of the Bible takes very seriously the way He is worshiped. Those who believe it is ok to borrow from the traditions of the pagan world and incorporate such things into the worship of God or His Son should consider Jesus’ admonition on this subject: "God is a spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" (Jn. 4:24). It is important to understand that nowhere in the New Testament do we find God’s Church celebrating Easter. God’s people throughout the Bible honored His festivals. The New Testament Church kept the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread (1 Cor. 5:7). They also kept His other festivals which God commanded as holy convocations (Lev. 23:1-2). God’s Holy Days were never abandoned at the cross. On the contrary, they take on greater meaning. Man’s attempt to replace God’s festivals and Holy Days with customs that come directly from the pagan world represents an act of rank arrogance

    April 17, 2014 at 6:55 pm |
    • Greg Wisner

      Honesty. Refreshing.

      April 17, 2014 at 7:19 pm |
    • Vic

      Sins and the Law of the Old Testament were nailed to the cross in Calvary on Good Friday.

      Colossians 2:14
      "14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (NASB)

      April 17, 2014 at 9:28 pm |
      • sam stone

        The concept of sin is a hoax that you have swallowed hook, line and sinker, vic

        April 17, 2014 at 9:39 pm |
      • justpro86

        Consider the words of E. W. Bullinger.

        The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning... But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days," then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact. (The Companion Bible, Appendix 144)

        The plain truth is that Jesus was never crucified on "Good Friday" or resurrected on "Easter Sunday." This belief is not driven by the scriptures but rather by the traditions of men.

        April 17, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
  13. moderatedx

    I see the christian holiday apologists are out.

    April 17, 2014 at 6:54 pm |
  14. northerngrove

    It's that time of year again. The time of year when CNN's unformed bloggers get something COMPLETELY WRONG. I'll give you some links to clear up the confusion:

    http://thenortherngrove.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/cultural-appropriation-ishtar-eostre-and-easter/

    http://thenortherngrove.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/follow-up-and-response-to-easterishtareostre-silliness/

    http://carolynemerick.hubpages.com/hub/ostre-Germanic-Goddess-or-Bedes-Invention

    April 17, 2014 at 6:04 pm |
    • midwest rail

      And it will get really interesting when those unformed bloggers get formed.

      April 17, 2014 at 6:06 pm |
      • northerngrove

        yes because nobody has ever made a typo before me.

        April 17, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
        • midwest rail

          It was just a joke – relax, I knew what you meant.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
    • Greg Wisner

      If you're going to insult people on their ignorance, proofread first. It's the smart thing to do.

      And since your invitation was so snarkily given, I must decline.

      April 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
  15. mikebee23

    1) The word "Easter" is NOT in the Bible.
    2) The Easter mascot, the rabbit, is an unclean animal in the Bible. Leviticus 11:6
    3) Why did Hugh Heffner pick the Bunny for his Playboy mascot ? Fertility ?
    4) Jesus commanded HIS follows only to celebrate only one holiday. It's NOT Easter ! It's NOT Christmas !
    Read Luke 22:19 ..... Keep doing this in remembrance of me. ....

    April 17, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
  16. Bob

    These leaflets are chilling. As a victim of anti-Semitism decades ago that killed many members of my own family, I oppose their message and the terror and attempt to take away freedom that they represent. History has been the judge of an earlier murderous and bigoted doctrine from an evil fascist dictator who I will not even name.

    April 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
  17. PeterVN

    My favorite blog quote of recent months has been "Religion is for the ignorant, the gullible, the stupid, and the cowardly, and for those who would profit from them."

    Easter, which really is just another of the holidays stolen or otherwise taken over by Christians, is all about profit, all the time -just like their other main holiday, which is the biggest consumer sales time of the year.

    April 17, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      I don't think Martin Luther King, Jr or Jackie Robinson were ignorant, gullible, stupid, or cowardly. And they definitely were men of religion. They used their religion to overcome the injustices of a hateful society.

      At my church, Easter is not about profit and we didn't steal a holiday from anyone.

      April 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        WELL said dal!

        April 17, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I've been reading about Jackie Robinson lately:

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/12/jackie-robinsons-faith-missing-from-42-movie_n_3072672.html

          Definitely not a coward.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:12 pm |
      • Ed

        I don't know so much about Robinson, but King actually was very gullible. He came to regret later quite a few of the people who were in his inner circle that he trusted for a while, some of whom were pretty violent and did some reprehensible things. So he fits into one of Peter's groups in that way.

        As for Easter, whether you think it was "stolen" or not, your tribe sure wasn't the first to claim it. Denial is only your first step into your recovery, as they say...

        April 17, 2014 at 6:12 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I never said my tribe was the first to claim it. Nor do I believe such a thing.

          Of course MLK, like all human beings, were susceptible to gullibility.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:15 pm |
      • aslamproductions

        Actually they were ignorant. Anyone that truly believes any of this religious nonsense is ignorant, or using their "holier than thou" position to control people. They did great things but none of it had to do with religion.

        April 17, 2014 at 7:52 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          They both claimed their faith in God helped them overcome incredible obstacles.

          No 'holier than thou' position needed. If fact, they claimed they got down on their knees and confessed to not being holier than others.

          So, yea, religion didn't help them. God did.

          April 17, 2014 at 9:45 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          That may be true. But they still believed in something that does not exist. Their power especially MLK came from within. Usually when I succeed at something it is because of hard work and perserverance and not because of some magical being.

          April 17, 2014 at 9:49 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I trust their testimony over yours. God does exist.

          Jesus said the power that comes from within us is God.

          April 17, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Do you also believe in Santa Claus? How about the tooth fairy?

          April 17, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          No I don't believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.

          There goes that theory.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Then why do you believe in god? Is there more proof somehow that god exists and not Santa Claus? A big book of stories? That's your proof?

          April 17, 2014 at 10:16 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Because God is not like Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. Yes, ask God to reveal himself to you in a way you can understand. A big book of stories is not my proof. But The Bible does point to God. As do other things like science and nature.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:21 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Science is the complete opposite of religion. Things are verifiable, proven, examinable under a microscope, and proven with mathematics, and experimentation. God is not. Your god is just as real as the Greek Pantheon of gods sitting on Mt. Olympus.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:29 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          God transcends science. He authored it.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:15 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Typical rebuttal. You have no proof so you say that god is greater than science therefore god exists. It is really scary to see how brainwashed you people are. And also quite sad that you are unable to think for yourself.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:22 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I'm not brainwashed. And I can totally think for myself. I choose to follow Christ.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:39 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          I am glad for you. If you choose to follow Jesus, a mythological being like Zeus, Ra, or Vishnu, then good for you. Have a great night.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:43 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Jesus, is not a mythological being. He is not like Zeus, Ra, or Vishnu.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:18 am |
        • aslamproductions

          Why is he not like Zeus, Ra, or Vishnu? They are all imaginary including your god/Jesus.

          April 18, 2014 at 12:22 am |
        • Dalahäst

          No. Just because you say God is imaginary, does not mean God is imaginary. God is real. Jesus lives.

          Smarter men and women than you and I believe in God.

          April 18, 2014 at 9:49 am |
    • aslamproductions

      Thank you. Your quote nails it on the head. Religion is nothing more than an invention by man to control people and profit from them. Nothing else. People who say otherwise are simply fools, believing in a magical being that is one day going to save them.

      April 17, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
      • Dalahäst

        "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

        April 17, 2014 at 11:44 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          Einstein never said that. Now you are just making things up.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:48 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          No, he said that. He was a deist.

          April 17, 2014 at 11:52 pm |
        • Sue

          Einstein thought that the Christian beliefs in regard to a god were just foolish, and he said so repeatedly. A couple of quotes:

          "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text."

          and a better known one

          "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"

          No personal god = no Christian god. Einstein plainly was not a supporter of the Christian beliefs.

          April 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Yes, I completely know that about Einstein.

          That is why I said he was a deist, not a Christian or an atheist.

          April 18, 2014 at 5:52 pm |
  18. theologyarchaeology

    candida moss does not know what she is talking about despite the support from jim west.

    April 17, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
  19. hissierra9

    it's not ishtar, it's ostara. and that word IS west saxon. facts.

    April 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm |
    • northerngrove

      Thank you for being the only commenter to get this straight. Ostara to the West Saxons and Eostre to the Anglo-Saxons. CNN is run by hacks.

      April 17, 2014 at 6:06 pm |
      • Greg Wisner

        On this page? Perhaps. Of all the comments? It's been said multiple times.

        April 17, 2014 at 6:22 pm |
  20. bostontola

    When we calendar the observation of holidays and traditions are not biblically defined, so they don't bear on the validity of biblical Christianity. The contents of the bibles determine the validity or not of biblical Christianity. The contents of the bibles contain errors, conflicting information, immorality by today's standards, and ambiguity. That is what invalidates biblical Christianity.

    Some people cherry pick, some rationalize, some do both to create a Christianity they are comfortable with. There are over 42,000 denominations and growing. That doesn't include the people with their own personal interpretations that don't associate strongly with a particular church.

    Worrying about when Easter happens or Christmas is rearranging deck chairs on the Ti.tanic.

    April 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      however..there really has been no misinformations...and truth is not based on something so relative as morality.....you cant say it isn't truth cause the morality was different from yours.......very weak arguments..and denominations don't all have different theology....no way....not all are separated cause of theology..some are..yes..but not all

      April 17, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
      • bostontola

        Genesis didn't happen...period. Slavery is immoral...period. The list goes on.

        April 17, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          just becausae you don't believe in miracles does not make Gensis not happening...second again morality does not make something true....you say slavery was immoral..thus the story could not have been true or such

          April 17, 2014 at 5:13 pm |
        • bostontola

          kermit,
          There is a ton of evidence, objective, hard evidence that Genesis didn't happen. There is no objective evidence that it did happen. That is good enough for me. You choose to believe that a God would leave a mountain of objective evidence that the bible is false, good for you. The evidence says it didn't happen. These are not 2 equally valid positions.

          I agree on the morality issue. I choose to dissociate with a book that condones and regulate slavery and other practices I find immoral. You choose to embrace it.

          I find those moral disconnects in conflict with the popular picture of Jesus as a loving God. You don't.

          Most Christians have morality closer to mine I think. They square it by cherry picking. You may embrace the whole thing.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • Akira

          I cannot understand how anyone who embraces slavey can call themselves moral, Boston.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:24 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I don't embrace slavery.....and by slavery..do yo umean kidnapping others and keeping them against their will...like antebeluum USA in the 1800s?

          April 17, 2014 at 5:27 pm |
        • bostontola

          Akira,
          I don't either, but if your God says so I guess you have to listen.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:28 pm |
        • bostontola

          kermit, we all know what slavery is, let's not get Philadelphia lawyer like. Your bible condones and regulates slavery.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:31 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          uh euse me? first of all..what is described in OT is NOT anything like antebellum usa.....no one was kdnapped....(in fact Bible dsays deathg penalty to anyone who kidnapps) second...the "slaves" had rights in the BIble...in USA they did not....third...the people willingly sold themselves to pay off debts....this is not same as in slavery in USA>.(granted this is a poor way of social assistance to the poior...but they did not have things like we do today that makes finanicaial assistance more easier) plus..there were milti generations in the home (not like todays nuclear family) etc etc.....so thus really..I guess one did not embrace helping others out by having them work to pay off debts (you wanna have your debts paid off while you dno nothing but twiddle your thumbs?)

          April 17, 2014 at 5:36 pm |
        • joey3467

          The Hebrews were not supposed to take other Hebrews as slaves, but if you were a foreigner and a slave then you were considered the person's property just like in the South, and at least according to the bible, these rules came from god.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:35 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          no..not just like in the south..they strill had rights and were stillallowed to go free at Jubilee (contrary to popular belief that the Jubilee only applied to Israelites-that's not true..it was for all)

          April 17, 2014 at 5:38 pm |
        • justpro86

          First of all bostontola you are completely wrong about the Bible and slavery. First the Genesis did happen and science proves it... Second of all the slavery back in the old testament was completly different than the slavery the US witnessed in Lincolns time... So end it with it... Slavery in the Bible was pretty much about like working as a janitor of a hospital or something.. It was taught that the slave owner to honor and respect the slave and to accept him or her as one of the family to honor and love. It is taught that if the slave wants to go free he or she can buy his or her out of slavery and not to let the slave leave without anything but provide the individual something to help him or her out on their own as a free person.. Slavery was totally different.

          God created the universe in more than 4.5 million years ago and science proves that... So you are wrong...

          April 17, 2014 at 5:36 pm |
        • bostontola

          Why are we defining slavery to be American slavery? This is just the most extreme rationalization I've seen in a long time. American slavery is irrelevant to this argument. The bible condones and regulates slavery.

          Now saying that science proves Genesis either means you are completely deluded or a liar.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:40 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          that's because that's how MANY skeptics have done! they likened the slavery I the Bible as same as in USA in the 1800s

          April 17, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          God did not condemn slavery. Fact. And slavery in America started LONG before the antebellum period...fact. And it is immoral. Fact.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          did I say that it started in the 1800s? also...the Bible does indirectly condemn it...and even those who gfought against slavery used the Bible! Paul indirectly condemned it when he told Philemon to treat Onesimus like a brother....now if you were to treat someone like a brother..would youenslave them? hardly! Jesus told people to LOVE others..would you enslave them if you love them?> nope....

          April 17, 2014 at 5:46 pm |
        • bostontola

          Leviticus 25:

          Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:48 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          Kermit, when you use things incorrectly, such as antebellum, you will be corrected. Perhaps you you'll let go of your anger.

          Post the verses where God CONDEMNS it.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:52 pm |
        • justpro86

          Heres what the bible teaches.....

          Leviticus 25:38-46
          38 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.
          39 And if one of your brethren who dwells by you becomes poor, and sells himself to you, you shall not compel him to serve as a slave.
          40 As a hired servant and a sojourner he shall be with you, and shall serve you until the Year of Jubilee.
          41 And then he shall depart from you––he and his children with him––and shall return to his own family. He shall return to the possession of his fathers.
          42 For they are My servants, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as slaves.
          43 You shall not rule over him with rigor, but you shall fear your God.
          44 And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have––from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.
          45 Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.
          46 And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          again that's wha tone does...when I say sell....they are allwong the foreigners to sell themselves as well to pay off debts...they were not taken against their will

          April 17, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
        • justpro86

          Kermit, exactly people back than SOLD themselves because they were poor and to help themselves make a living thus they sold themselves to work for a "master" its kind of like me selling my self to Mcdonalds to flip burgars to help the restaurant to gain income...

          April 17, 2014 at 6:06 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          or..even selling yourself to VISA credit cards...you are in debt...yo uare enslaved to them...you have to pay by THEIR terms

          April 17, 2014 at 6:09 pm |
        • justpro86

          exactly people like boston misinterpret the bibles teaching all the time... however if you study and know your bible you would fully understand what its saying... Back than they did not have stores to work at or places to work so the best some people can do is SELL themselves to make a comfortable living and often times those slaves become part of the family and want to stay with their "masters" for life...

          April 17, 2014 at 6:12 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          yes..and someone brought up 6 year old daughters working too...they forget this isn't USA>..they did not have schools and such...everyone worked to help the family...

          April 17, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
        • justpro86

          Back than society was not as corrupt as it is in todays generation

          April 17, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
        • bostontola

          Exactly, the bible condones and regulates slavery. It directly defines the slave as property in Lev 25:45,46.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          of course..money oewed is property..they are of value to them

          April 17, 2014 at 6:00 pm |
        • bostontola

          kermit,
          Direct question: Is it moral to own another person as your property?

          April 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          owning as in what they owed you was valuable? when they were doing it willingly? sure.....whats the problem with paying off a debt?

          April 17, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
        • justpro86

          Bostontola once again you are wrong... Science says the Earth is roughly 4.5 million years old maybe older....The Bible establishes a minimum date for the creation of human beings on the sixth "day" of ~50,000 years ago. However, because the Bible clearly indicates the length of the previous five creation "days," are longer than ordinary solar days, we must look to God's creation to establish an accurate date for the length of the days and the age of the earth. The age of the earth is most accurately established by examining the age of its rocks, along with the age of rocks from the moon and meteorites, which were formed around the same time. All these measurements indicate that the earth is just over 4.5 billion years old. Measurement of the ages of some of earth's features establish a minimum age for those features that is in the hundred of thousands to millions of years. Since most of the measurement merely involve the counting of annual layers, they are unlikely to be grossly inaccurate. Therefore, the young earth paradigm that the earth is merely 6,000 years old is falsified by both the Bible and science. The vast ages of the earth does not diminish the power and glory of God, but establishes that God thought that preparing the earth for human habitation was worth the billions of years of preparation. Since God is not subject to the temporal dimension of this universe,48 it all happened "instantly" for Him.

          So really the Bible agrees with the scientific theory that the earth is been around longer than 6,000 years..

          April 17, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
        • justpro86

          Now back to the slavery issue...Verse 44 discusses slaves that they may already have from nations around them. They can be bought and sold. It doesn’t say to seek them out or have forced slavery. Hence it is not giving an endorsement of seeking new slaves or encouraging the slave trade. At this point, the Israelites had just come out of slavery and were about to enter the Holy Land. They shouldn’t have had many servants. Also, this doesn’t restrict other people in cultures around them from selling themselves as bondservants. But as discussed already there are passages for the proper and godly treatment of servants/slaves.
          The slavery of “Black” people by “White” people in the 16th to 19th centuries was harshly unjust like many cultures before. This harsh slavery is not discussed in Moses’ writings, because such slavery was unknown in Hebrew culture. This is not surprising. Paul tells us in Romans 1:30 that people are capable of inventing new ways of doing evil.

          So yeah there yah have it

          April 17, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          well said justpro

          April 17, 2014 at 6:05 pm |
        • johnbiggscr

          slavery is slavery, period. All this trying to claim that the bible slavery didnt mean slavery is nonsense. They knew what slavery was and the bible gave instructions on taking slaves and passing those slaves on to your family etc.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          so working to pay
          off debts is terrible for you eh john?

          April 17, 2014 at 6:06 pm |
        • bostontola

          justpro, the sequence of creation in Genesis is in conflict with science.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:04 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Read a Bible sometime. It even supports selling 6-year-old daughters to complete strangers for their use as slaves.

          Wake up!

          April 17, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          Okay. No condemnation. As I said.
          Not a very good argument.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          I have to laugh at the hoops people will go through to justify slave owning, and the fact that God didn't condemn it.

          And they call other people immoral.

          Flipping hypocrites.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:13 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          @ Greg...well...so we shouldn't try to look into context and reason...and just take it for what it days in one passage and ignore others? you believe context uis at all important when communicating an idea? that's all we are giving..is context..why don't you try to disprove what we are saying by showing what histotical Judaism believes?

          April 17, 2014 at 6:16 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Come out of Fantasyland, They sold their young daughters to STRANGERS with God's blessing.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:15 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          right..in those times..EVERYONE worked....they didn't have schools then...all who were able were to work and help the family

          April 17, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
        • observer

          kermit4jc

          "yes..and someone brought up 6 year old daughters working too"

          Ever give ANY THOUGHT to what a stranger might do with a 6-year-old girl when no one is around?

          April 17, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          wow...you think pretty low of humans eh? all the strangers are p e d o s now huh?

          April 17, 2014 at 6:18 pm |
        • observer

          kermit4jc,

          If you had a 6-year-old daughter, would you let a strange man take her away for his use?

          YES or NO? Wake up!!

          April 17, 2014 at 6:20 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          TODAY? no..back then..things were different..we did not have widespread cases of molestations like we do today..second....you make it sound as if they didn't check for the people who they were giving theioir children to...perfect stanrgers? most towns were pretty small..fmailies knew each other..unlike today where a parent hardly knows their childrens playmates..if it were back then..i probably woulod have aftrer checking things out first

          April 17, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          so maybe You should wake up and not poroject today on yesteryear

          April 17, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
        • justpro86

          Observer, Back than its rare that a grown man would lust for a young 6 year old girl... Times were a lot different than what they are now... Please spare me the laughter... Also I don't live in fantasy land... But I know truth when I see...

          April 17, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          just..its sad that they forget things were different...they forget THEN is not now......Israel is NOT USA....etc etc...

          April 17, 2014 at 6:25 pm |
        • justpro86

          Times were different back than then it is today... People had stronger morals and values back than compared today...

          April 17, 2014 at 6:39 pm |
        • observer

          kermit4jc,

          So your answer is NO, but back then things were different. That's right. The people were so good that God never had to criticize them or KILL them or give them a LONG LIST of reasons to KILL others for.

          WAKE UP!!! Your efforts to MAKE EXCUSES has wiped out your LOGIC.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:28 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86

          "Observer, Back than its rare that a grown man would lust for a young 6 year old girl..."

          You have ZERO REASON to believe that the nature of man has changed much since then. Laws and morals have.

          It's the same Bible that says that women can be prizes of war. Any idea what the men might want them for?

          April 17, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
        • justpro86

          Observer once again you are clueless... Yes other nations NOT THE HEBREWs were corrupt like that which is why God allowed the Israelite to wipe them out which is why Canaanites are no longer in existent cause they were full of sin and their perversion was far to great... Please besides Biblical Christians led the fight to abolish slavery.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:42 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86

          "Back than society was not as corrupt as it is in todays generation'

          Read about Sodom and the Flood and the estimated ONE MILLION other people identified as killed by God in the Bible.

          Get serious.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:45 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Read a Bible SOMEDAY.

          Where does it ever condemn OWNING ANOTHER PERSON?

          Oooops.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:47 pm |
        • justpro86

          Observer-Read about Sodom and the Flood and the estimated ONE MILLION other people identified as killed by God in the Bible.

          Get serious.-

          You get serious all that is pretty much God demonstrating that he does not tolerate SIN which sodom and gommorah and the people around Noah was all about... The bible describes a lot of immortality that those people did... and he simply wiped them out... Also he did promise that he (god) will not do that again till the end times....

          April 17, 2014 at 6:50 pm |
        • justpro86

          Observer,

          The Bible doesn’t give an endorsement of slave traders but the opposite (1 Timothy 1:10). A slave/bondservant was acquired when a person voluntarily entered into it when he needed to pay off his debts.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:52 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Most of us have slaves working for us. We just don't see them.

          http://slaveryfootprint.org/

          April 17, 2014 at 6:54 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Indirectly (and usually unknowingly) supporting slave labor through the purchase of certain products is certainly an issue. Just not related to this one.

          April 17, 2014 at 6:58 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          All Christians I know are opposed to slavery. I know of quite a few that are actively involved in anti-slavery actions and provide hope & help for those rescued from that way of life.

          You can cherry-pick verses out of the Bible to suggest it condones slavery.

          April 17, 2014 at 7:01 pm |
        • midwest rail

          I have no reason to question that. To be fair, though, would you agree that even Christians have a "slavery footprint" ?

          April 17, 2014 at 7:07 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Yes. Many Christian groups have admitted and apologized for their role of historically supporting slavery, among other crimes against humanity.

          Christians have been the victims of slavery, too.

          April 17, 2014 at 7:10 pm |
        • joey3467

          God could have made it a law to not own slaves. He did not so one can only conclude that he was fine with it. I find this to be really awful. Also most slaves at that time were prisoners of war, and did not sell themselves to pay off debts.

          April 17, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          Kermit...so we should excuse slavery because back then it was moral...? No...we shouldn't... And Gid never condemned slavery....not once....just gave instructions on how to treat them better of they were Israelite ....maybe you don't have any problem with that.... But I do....from a physcogical point of view that is telling...what other bad behavior will be justified because the Bible doesn't directly condemn it....I love ellipsis...such a fun way to write...

          April 17, 2014 at 7:26 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          let me ask yo usomething....Jesus told people to love your enemies..to love others as yourself..Paul told The slave owner to love his slave as a brother..now..with that in mind..do YOU really think that those who truly love others would enslave someone else? its not an excuse..its trational thinking..YOu say God should say flat out..no slaves....God went further..by saying LOVE others..that would pretty much be a guarantee there would be no slavery! Its a no brainer

          April 18, 2014 at 7:42 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          Lots of typos in my last post...apologies...

          April 17, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
        • observer

          Dalahäst

          "Most of us have slaves working for us. We just don't see them."

          How many of us BEAT them with rods without punishment like in the Bible?

          April 17, 2014 at 9:14 pm |
        • observer

          justpro86,

          Sorry you missed my question. Here it is again.

          Where does the Bible ever condemn OWNING ANOTHER PERSON?

          April 17, 2014 at 9:16 pm |
        • Greg Wisner

          "@ Greg…well…so we shouldn’t try to look into context and reason…and just take it for what it days in one passage and ignore others? you believe context uis at all important when communicating an idea? that’s all we are giving..is context.."

          Well...see the thing is....slavery is immoral and the reasons people did dies not make it any less immoral....if God wanted to....He could have coromandel that the practice end....he didn't....because it was an accepted practice that God condoned....and I read the OT in context....claiming people don't understand because it was taken out if context is a weak argument....because there is no GOOD reason to condone it....slaves were treated like dirt....imooral practice that wasn't outlawed by the Most High...why...because He find didn't find it repugnant....He found it an acceptable practice....He didn't even find it necessary speak one thin word against the practice of owning another human being....and yet people like you dare call gay people immoral....right. Got it.

          April 17, 2014 at 9:32 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          + How many of us BEAT them with rods without punishment like in the Bible?

          I don't do that. And nothing suggests that that is acceptable. But you do make choices everyday that allow other people to beat them with rods.

          April 17, 2014 at 10:00 pm |
      • Akira

        Are the Christian holiday dates found in the Bible?

        April 17, 2014 at 5:10 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          if you mean by "Easter" and Christmas? the Day of resurrection (EAster) prtty much has a set date...in that it is celebrated right after the Passover..as for Christmas.....we don't know when Jesus was born exactly..most point (I tend to be convinced of it also) that it was in the Spring....however..whatever date..I still celebrate his birth

          April 17, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
        • Akira

          I know that. I was asking about your dismissing "When we calendar the observation of holidays and traditions are not biblically defined, so they don’t bear on the validity of biblical Christianity."
          Because he wasn't saying anything bad about Christianity at all, just that the dates chosen to cemebrate them aren't found in the Bible.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
        • Akira

          *celebrate. Apologies.

          April 17, 2014 at 5:23 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "the Day of resurrection "

          Nothing outside of the bible to support your claim of a resurrection. Gee Kermi, so ignorant of science...where else, without using your bible, can you point to that verifies someone coming back from the dead after 3 days??? How does that even make sense to you??

          April 17, 2014 at 8:19 pm |
        • aslamproductions

          You will never be able to have a logical discussion with anyone who takes the bible as fact. These people are irrational. If someone's answer or argument relies on quoting something from this big book of myths then you are debating a fool. It is amazing to see seemingly intelligent people believing in any of this nonsense.

          April 17, 2014 at 8:33 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.