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April 23rd, 2014
03:46 PM ET

Pope stirs Communion debate with call to woman

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-editor 
[twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN']

(CNN) - Pope Francis called an Argentine woman married to a divorced man and reportedly told her that she could receive the sacrament of Communion, according to the woman's husband, in an apparent contradiction of Catholic law.

Julio Sabetta, from San Lorenzo in the Pope's home country, said his wife, Jacqueline Sabetta Lisbona, spoke with Francis on Monday.

Jacqueline Sabetta Lisbona wrote to the pontiff in September to ask for clarification on the Communion issue, according to her husband, who said his divorced status had prevented her from receiving the sacrament.

"She spoke with the Pope, and he said she was absolved of all sins and she could go and get the Holy Communion because she was not doing anything wrong," Sabetta told Channel 3 Rosario, a CNN affiliate.

A Vatican spokesman confirmed the telephone call but would not comment on the conversation's content.

"It's between the Pope and the woman," said the Rev. Thomas Rosica, a consultant for the Vatican press office.

Rosica said that any comments made by the Pope should not be construed as a change in church doctrine. "The magisterium of the church is not defined by personal phone calls."

It's not the first time Pope Francis has cold-called Catholics, who are often surprised to hear "Father Bergoglio" on the line. (Before he was elected Pope last year, Francis was Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, archbishop of Buenos Aires.)

His informal style, honed during years as a parish priest, has led some to call him the "people's Pope."

Pope Francis leaves New Year's voice mail for nuns in Spain

The Pope told Jacqueline Sabetta that the Vatican would be discussing its Communion restrictions, according to her husband.

Pope Francis and other top Vatican leaders have said the issue will be discussed at a gathering of bishops from around the world in October. The Pope was not pre-empting that debate, according to Rosica.

"To draw any conclusions about this particular situation, that the Pope may be setting an agenda, is incorrect," he said. "The Pope is first and foremost an esteemed pastor, and dealing with a human situation is always complex."

However, Pope Francis has signaled that some sort of change could be on the horizon.
“I think this is the moment for mercy,” the Pope said in July when asked about divorced and remarried Catholics.

Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller, prefect of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, reaffirmed church teaching in October that divorced and remarried Catholics may not receive Communion without an annulment.

Muller's clarification came after some German bishops planned to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Communion.

The issue of divorced Catholics receiving Communion forms a complex and controversial area of church law.

According to the church's catechism, "The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble."

Canon law further says, "If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery; and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself."

However, the church does allow divorced Catholics who do not remarry, as well as those whose marriages have been annulled, to receive Communion.

Church leaders like Boston Cardinal Sean O'Malley, a close confidant of Pope Francis', have suggested that the church cannot change its laws but could streamline the annulment process, which can sometimes drag on for years.

Jacqueline Sabetta Lisbona told La Red AM910 in Buenos Aires that her husband, not she, has been divorced. That makes little difference in church law, but Lisbona told the radio station that the Pope said he'll use her letter to "support his argument."

Julio Sabetta said he and his wife have been married for 19 years and have two children.

"I'm very happy, because I’m not the only one divorced. There are a lot of people who are divorced, and I hope that … that it happens for all divorced people and all those who want to get the Holy Communion,” Sabetta told Channel 3 Rosario.

CNN's Delia Gallagher and Cindy Rodriguez contributed to this report. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Argentina • Belief • Catholic Church • Christianity • Ethics • Pope Francis • South America

soundoff (512 Responses)
  1. adamjread

    One of these days, we are going to realize that we really...REALLY...like our movies.....so much so that we will take one that hit the box office 5,000 years ago....and the sequel 2,000 years ago, then dove into it head first and came up out of the water with an enormous amount of matching costumes, lyrics, scene plays, and the like. If it actually worked and didn't keep getting a whole lot of people killed, it would be an unprecedented marvel of human ingenuity.

    The fact that we CAN'T yet pull out of it and that we are still killing and dying in the name of these scripted characters tells us that the original writers, editors, and publishers did not quite nail down a sustainable story line.

    It is going to be one very weird day when the movie projector finally gets shut off, the lights come on, and we start to look around at the movie theater we have found ourselves in. Will we even be able to step out of the theater into the bright light and streets of the real existence we have been in all along? Or will there be another pause until the people that thought they were in the "true" world have found even themselves inside yet another movie theater?

    A theater within a theater within a theater....Wow....talk about the challenge of navigating the mental health of 7 billion people whose world will change drastically in a very short amount of time. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do or don't believe....This is going to get really weird.

    April 24, 2014 at 6:59 pm |
    • adamjread

      ....of course, it will also be an amazing day when I can post something without so many grammatical errors....Ugh....

      April 24, 2014 at 7:03 pm |
  2. tynkyrbelle

    Making crap up as you go along.

    Must be nice to be the spiritual leader to gullible people.

    April 24, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
    • mightym7

      How dare you day that about the Grand Poobah! What, doesn't his costume convince you of his authority?

      April 24, 2014 at 6:36 pm |
      • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

        Big pointy hats scream authority!

        April 24, 2014 at 9:02 pm |
        • sam stone

          not to mention the clown outfits

          April 25, 2014 at 12:04 pm |
  3. bostontola

    This pope continues to strike a nice tone for the public. No real change, but it's better than the last guy.

    Overall, I think I like the RCC best among the Christian churches. They have done better than the others at accommodating science into their beliefs. Their explanations gets a little strained, but at least they are open to evolution, the Big Bang, etc.

    Their history of violence isn't out of family with the times (i.e. what Governments, Kings, etc. were doing at those times). They have shown weakness and cowardice (e.g. during WWII, the pedophilia scandals), but again, not unlike many other large self protective short sighted organizations.

    April 24, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      being open to evolution is selling out to the public opinion.....

      April 24, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
      • In Santa We Trust

        Being open to evolution means following the evidence to the truth. Check it out: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

        April 24, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          it isn't evidence...I already know enough evolution..I studied in school and college

          April 24, 2014 at 6:28 pm |
        • bostontola

          When a person says, "I already know enough", they lose all credibility on the subject.

          April 24, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          kermit, If you'd studied it in college you'd understand. btw did you notice that they don't teach creationism at college because there is no evidence for it.

          April 24, 2014 at 7:07 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          lol..that all you got? I do understand it.....why must you do my thinking for me? you don't know me

          April 25, 2014 at 1:55 am |
        • The Ministry Of Bad Opinion says...

          Didn't you say you went to Simpson University, Kermit? Not exactly the bastion for getting an education about evolution.

          April 24, 2014 at 10:37 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          did I ay I studied about evolution from there? read my posts..it pretty much lets you know I attended other schools..cmon

          April 25, 2014 at 2:04 am |
        • sam stone

          i am thinking that the evolution studies at simpson university are every bit as thorough as those at liberty university, or bob jones university

          April 24, 2014 at 11:19 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          WHY oh WHY do you people assume without asking things? Did I say I studied evolution at Simpson???

          April 25, 2014 at 2:09 am |
        • sam stone

          you did not. now, tell us more about those critical thinking skills

          April 25, 2014 at 8:09 am |
      • bostontola

        kermit,
        You may have jumped to a conclusion regarding that. The RCC did not take that step lightly or quickly. The RCC has very capable scientists in their ranks today. They studied all the available data and concluded that evolution is a fact. They believe that the soul is outside evolution, provided by God.

        Historically, you shouldn't discount the scientific prowess of the RCC. Some of the most important scientists and pre-scientists were from there.

        April 24, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          IM not against science in general...just evolution...please don't misrepresent me..oh..and let me make one thing clear...I do agree with a smaller scale of evolution..one where dogs breeds can evolve to other breeds...I do not hold to the higher for of evolution where man and ape had common ancestor..or dog and cats had common ancestor

          April 24, 2014 at 6:38 pm |
        • bostontola

          kermit,
          That's a common apologist position in the evangelical community. The majority of Christian scientists regard full evolution as fact.

          April 24, 2014 at 6:42 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          SO what if they think that....majority does mot always make right......wasn't it the majority who thought the world was flat or center of the earth? majority does not guarantee correctness...

          April 24, 2014 at 6:44 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          kermit
          "I do not hold to the higher form of evolution where man and ape had common ancestor..or dog and cats had common ancestor"

          The only difference between the evolution that you accept and the evolution you do not is time; the longer the time the more potential for variation. DNA shows what you deny; fossils show what you deny. What in the science is not persuasive?

          April 24, 2014 at 6:47 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          fossils do NOT show..only the scientists biased interpretation shows it...same goes with DNA>..yeah..I know..we have very high number of same dna as apes...that doesn't mean we are related by common ancestor

          April 24, 2014 at 6:49 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          And perhaps more germane, what evidence do you have to support your denial?

          April 24, 2014 at 6:49 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          kermit, Denial does not change the evidence. DNA shows common ancestry – I discount the possibility that an omnipotent creator would reuse slightly modified DNA for each species to give the impression of evolution.
          btw what was your evidence for not believing in "full" evolution? What it the limit that delineates the evolution you do believe in and the evolution you do not believe in?

          April 24, 2014 at 7:11 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          trhats YOUR interpretation of similar DNA process.....I see it as a COMMON Creator..ONE God made all....my evidence? there is none..there are "missing links" and such...and my other evidence is I personally know God..he is Creator.....I know you cant accept it...but I do.....

          April 25, 2014 at 1:57 am |
        • kermit4jc

          O..and your denial of Gods existence doesn't change the evidence I seen

          April 25, 2014 at 1:58 am |
        • sam stone

          wow, kermy, you PERSONALLY know god. pretty impressive, i tell you

          April 25, 2014 at 7:20 am |
        • southerncelt

          Evidently you know little to nothing about scientifc methods. Nothing in Science is a fact until it can be repeatably proven. Unless there has been a recent change I am unaware of, human evolution has never been proven and, therefore, it is still just a theory.

          May 5, 2014 at 6:09 pm |
      • tynkyrbelle

        Apparently, you didn't study well enough, or were just too stupid to comprehend what they were teaching.

        It's understandable. For people so stupid they believe that some Sky Fairy has telepathically taken away their sins because they've eaten a piece of bread that was magically turned into HUMAN ROTTING FLESH (if it ain't connected to a living body, it's rotting), it's no wonder that actual SCIENCE stumps your retarded little mind.

        April 24, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Apparently, you didn’t study well enough, or were just too stupid to comprehend what they were teaching.<--funny..when we say that to atheists about the BIble..they get offended....double standards or something??

          April 24, 2014 at 6:39 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I don't believe that eating a piece of bread saves me..where did you get that from??? whos the retarded one here...assuming I do such to get saved?

          April 24, 2014 at 6:40 pm |
        • Madtown

          were just too stupid to comprehend what they were teaching
          ----
          LOL. You must just know more than everyone. Certainly most everyone here, as yours is the minority opinion.

          April 24, 2014 at 7:36 pm |
        • sam stone

          kermy: you boast of your "critical thinking". what "critical thinking" told you that you need to be saved?

          April 24, 2014 at 10:08 pm |
        • benhoody

          You guys are like puppets, all copying each other and thinking the words sky fairy and magic are funny words as you mock God. I guess we all have to realize that one day dead matter appeared from nothing, like the magical rabbit out of the hat trick, and it all gathered itself together and couldn't contain itself any longer and like MAGIC, BANG, it all exploded and this dead matter spread out and over time began to think and reason and smell, talk, walk, see, hear, feel, etc. And you talk about a fairytale.

          April 25, 2014 at 1:42 am |
        • kermit4jc

          uh exencing Gods presence..getting to know God.....I don't go about this without thinking it through..blindly accepting it..

          April 25, 2014 at 2:03 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          benhoody: You ignorant dolt! Not comprehending how things came to be doesn't mean you get to plug a god in to the factor...it simply means you have been failed by the education system. The Big Bang and Evolution are facts...both you and your boy-toy kermi here should locate caves and move to them if you refuse and continue to deny the FACTS that are back by EVIDENCE...see your denial of these things doesn't falsify them nor does it make your bible true (the bible-the greatest fairy tale ever written meant to fool the gullible live in fear of the least likely god to exist).

          kermi: Sorry but as stated to your boy-toy ben, denying something doesn't make it false and it doesn't mean you can plug a god in. Your personal experience is only pertinent to you and those inept enough (and uneducated enough) to fall for your stories. EVOLUTION is fact, suck it up and stop denying true evidence-it only makes you look like a liar when you claim to be educated(which quite obviously you are not).

          We're sorry the education system failed you both.

          April 25, 2014 at 4:58 am |
        • benhoody

          You hate being wrong don't you? You act like a little child, all you can do is mock, jeer, call names and talk stupid when someone doesn't believe how you do, it just shows how ignorant you are of the truth. Sorry but creation is real and it is so obvious to those who are willing to see, look around you, it's pretty plain. Don't try to convert others with your nonsense and I won't try to convert you with the real facts, your mind is made up and those who believe otherwise have theirs made up, it's a pointless arguement, no one is goig to change their mind. We will all find out in the end one way or the other. Until then, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

          April 25, 2014 at 8:59 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          The fact that you deny evolution and the big bang prove exactly how uneducated you are. There is zero excuse outside of blatant ignorance for denying these things.
          I would have to say that it is you who hates being wrong. You know that your god can't be shown outside of your bible to exist but yet you grasp on to every little contradiction possible to make it more real.
          All any of us know with any certainty is that the end is just that...no need to imply anything more when there is no reason that can be justified to think that, no evidence to back it.
          Your beliefs are simply beliefs, not necessarily true and the bible is simply a book.
          Please join us in the 21st century.
          "Until then, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

          April 25, 2014 at 9:11 am |
        • kermit4jc

          you are so pathetic.....youre arrogant IM uneducated? how sad of you to make such sweeping claims..just because we disagree does not make me uneducated...its really arrogance saying that......you don't know me.....yet you make such false accusaations.....again as I stated in another post...you assume..yet don't ask ..in the age of "enlightenment" it seems now that knowledge of anything now comes from assumption s, rather than asking question..after all..isn't that how sceicne grows? by asking questions? (how does it work? by seeking answers...they mudt be asking questions....

          April 25, 2014 at 9:45 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          kermi: Locate a mirror and look in it. You're the one who is pathetic...such a hypocrite...you can't handle it when your ass is handed back to you and so you turn it. You have been shown numerous time over again how very wrong you are on your stance on many things yet you choose to remain ignorant and stick with your absurd beliefs for which no evidence exists to back them.

          April 25, 2014 at 9:53 am |
        • kermit4jc

          awwww whats a matter? you afraid of someone who is educated disagreeing with you? goodbye..Ill talk to someone else who isnt threatened by that

          April 25, 2014 at 5:40 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          kermi: I am educated you tool! The problem is this you don't accept facts-ie; LGBT being natural; Evolution being true-seems it is you who lacks the education.

          April 25, 2014 at 7:34 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          YOu are the fool..i di NOT say you were uneducated........I did not even imply it....

          April 25, 2014 at 7:37 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          and with that....you (as an educated person) are feeling threatened by another person who is educated, but disagreeing with you.....no....you cant comprehend tha tnot all think like you

          April 25, 2014 at 7:38 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          kermi: Not threatened at all-not by someone without the intelligence to accept evolution as fact or that LGBT is natural-nope, people with infantile delusions like you don't scare me, you are as laughable as it gets...busy and done with your ignorance, in fact reading the other crap you lie about.

          April 25, 2014 at 7:46 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I never said I expect people ot believe me..or believ e God exists cause I say so......youre one sad little person to make up such stories of me....Ill go back to not addressing you anymore...noy toy? the fact you have to resort to that shows you have nothing to argue anymore.....I plug God in cause He Himself proves Himself to me..which is the most honest thing I can say...if I believed simply because some human told me so..thay would be dishonest.....I find it sad that you find such a thing so unworthy (honesty) goodbye

          April 25, 2014 at 9:36 am |
        • sam stone

          wow, "experiencing god's presence"....that's some bang up critical thinking you got going there, kermy

          April 25, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
        • southerncelt

          Dear Tynkerbelle,
          If I don't believe in you will you disappear :-)? (Can't be that easy). 98% of the whole world belives in something. Those that belive in nothing are called atheists. So, which is it, are you one of the 2% or agnostic?

          May 5, 2014 at 6:15 pm |
      • southerncelt

        Being open to the theory of evolution is completly consistent with the Church's view that if there was a BIg Bang, God "lit the match" that set it off. No one was there to see it so why argue about it? Several of the Natural Sciences were founded/discovered by Catholics or Catholic Priests as the Church was the only place you could get an education back then, and before about 1517 every Christian was Catholic anyway. The Church does not "sell out" to public opinion. People should conform to what the Church teaches. The Church never conforms to public opinion.

        May 5, 2014 at 6:05 pm |
  4. mightym7

    Christians, check this out: The other day I was digging in my back yard, and to my surprise, I uncovered the remains of what looks like the skeleton of some sort of alien being! Sounds crazy, right? Good thing I can take comfort in knowing that all of you will believe me based on my word alone. I mean, you will, right? I swear it's true....It really happened!

    April 24, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
  5. akismet-44a8ca8105e8092b4b1a0af75fa4f58d

    This is meant to be a genuine inquiry, so please don't take offense. But how does a modern person bypass their critical thinking ability and allow them self to submit to a 2000-year-old doctrine? We have risen above such rules and regulations and it seems to me that the world could go on perfectly fine without the Catholic Church. I don't want to be disrespectful, but 'Who cares what the pope or the Catholic Church says?' They have no power in the modern world unless you give it to them.

    April 24, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
    • seedenbetter

      Being indoctrinated from childhood is the reason...and fear.

      April 24, 2014 at 5:29 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        are you referring to the 2000 year old doctrine of the Catholic Church?

        April 24, 2014 at 5:37 pm |
        • sam stone

          it could just as easily be any other ancient doctrine

          April 24, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          If any..I don't throw out critical thinking skills..I use them..which is why I consider myself a Christian

          April 24, 2014 at 5:48 pm |
        • sam stone

          you might want to sharpen them skills, kermy

          April 24, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          no need to say that.....just cause we disagree

          April 24, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
        • Madtown

          One doesn't use "critical thinking skills", to determine that a book comprised of the writings of human authors, which has been translated, transcribed, edited countless times, and was put together in current form by a panel of religious leaders.......is actually the work of God. No, that belief requires complete suspension of critical thinking skills.

          April 24, 2014 at 7:39 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          is that what YOu think? you sir have NOT used critical thinking in yor response..that response is NOTHINHG! the BIble was NOT put together by a panel! that's your ignorance! the ZCOuncils in the 300s did not put the bIble together..we have evidence of it coming togtehr long before that! read "Why 27" by Brian H Edwards.....I sir USE my critical thinking skills in looking itno how the BIble came about...so maybe to You it seems that way..but you shown ignorance...thus Id expect that kind of reply from someone like you

          April 25, 2014 at 2:00 am |
        • sam stone

          what makes you think our disageement is what makes me think your "critical thinking skills" are like a 4th grader's rounded scissors?

          April 24, 2014 at 8:06 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Id expect that kind of reply from an arrogant person who thinks they know someone and how that person came to know and have belief in God and Bible....

          April 25, 2014 at 2:02 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "I don't throw out critical thinking skills"

          I think you need to return and actually complete school this time. You do not use critical thinking skills kermi. Once you believe and start to think the bible holds any truth, you have thrown critical thinking skills out the window and are deserving of having everything else you say scrutinized. Until you provide evidence outside of your own delusions for your god, it is safe to say your god doesn't exist. Grow up and stop the pathological lying.

          April 25, 2014 at 5:11 am |
        • kermit4jc

          No..I still continue to use my critical thinking skills..why must uo think you know me when you don't...why must you think that I do nothing in my studies for over 20 plus years than to merely accept something? sorry ...but you assume too much about others..and I find that very unappealing..especially from one who puporotes to uphold science (which ASKS questions rather than assume things)

          April 25, 2014 at 9:38 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          No kermi, you don't. If you did you wouldn't be so quick to think that your personal experience links to a god...that is irrational thinking, not critical.
          You deny that LGBT are born that way; you deny evolution; you deny the big bang-denying those things when there is so much evidence for not denying them makes you an irrational person.
          Stop the hypocrisy-you make assumptions about people all the time.

          April 25, 2014 at 9:44 am |
        • kermit4jc

          here we go again..making stupid assumptions against someone they don tknow..I was NOT so quick to think this..yo apparently don't read much...I been saying in my posts and such that I been in this over 20 years! and IM in my 40s! you think I jumped quickly to this and took it lightly? you are sadly mistaken..and I wish you luck in your endevour to seek knowledge by asking..rather than assuming things...goodbye

          April 25, 2014 at 9:48 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          You're such the hypocrite. No assumptions have been made, you have made it very clear that you deny evolution; that you deny LGBT as being natural and not a choice; that you deny the big bang.
          Keep lying, it's what you do best and it does make the rest of what you claim questionable.

          April 25, 2014 at 9:56 am |
        • sam stone

          Arrogant? You don't claim to just have belief, you claim to have KNOWLEDE.

          So much for that "critical thinking"

          go home, boy, and get your fvcking shinebox

          April 25, 2014 at 7:24 am |
        • kermit4jc

          wow..so knowledge is a bad thing now....wow....and here I was thin,ing atheists were "free thinkers" all abvout gettingknowledge....so much for the credibility....

          April 25, 2014 at 9:43 am |
    • In Santa We Trust

      Same is true for all religions; let's get rid of them all.

      April 24, 2014 at 5:33 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      How does a doctrine's age make it irrelevant? That's a logical fallacy.

      April 24, 2014 at 5:53 pm |
      • akismet-44a8ca8105e8092b4b1a0af75fa4f58d

        It becomes irrelevant when it refuses to change or update its tenets to coincide with reality. We don't live in the 10th century anymore, noahsdadtopher. This is why the age of the doctrine affects its relevancy.

        April 24, 2014 at 8:26 pm |
        • sam stone

          don't forget, the law of non contradiction says that only one view can be correct, and since we know that topher is always correct, that makes everyone who disagees always wrong.

          folks like gopher want our cultural mores to be the same is 1st century palestine

          he remains a coward and a bigot

          April 24, 2014 at 10:33 pm |
      • sam stone

        what is there about a doctrine's age that makes it relevant, topher?

        April 24, 2014 at 10:17 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "But how does a modern person bypass their critical thinking ability and allow them self to submit to a 2000-year-old doctrine?"

      Good question, I don't know why the Bible is still taken seriously....

      April 24, 2014 at 8:49 pm |
    • southerncelt

      Without getting overly philosophical, Truth is eternal. 2,000 years is just a drop in the bucket for Truth. Who cares when it was written? As long as it was written by a reputable witness, why can't you believe it? You blindly accept scientific principles as the truth without perfoming the experiment to prove it yourself, so why not give the same respect to theological principles?

      May 5, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
  6. Dyslexic doG

    wuv ... twue wuv ... that bwessed awangement ... that dweam wivin a dweam ...

    April 24, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
    • Peaceadvocate2014

      Dreaming is not unhealthy as long as it does not turn into a nightmare.

      April 24, 2014 at 4:55 pm |
  7. Peaceadvocate2014

    I believe in the idea of forgiveness but I dont believe in the idea that divorce other than s3xual in nature is not a sin either by the man or woman.

    I believe in confession to a priest in the sense that we would know what to do for the sins we have done. Evaluating the sins, the penance, the remorse, etc in order to be forgiven. The woman who wrote the pope, the pope and the vatican should have kept the correspondence in private, a true nature of a confession. In essence, confession should be between the woman and God.

    April 24, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Forcing people to stay in unhappy, possibly violent marriages is unhealthy and cruel. Any church that would punish people for choosing to end such a relationship is not a religion that deserves respect.

      April 24, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        Yes, people make mistakes...marriage is a huge decision to make....it has been found that most abuse within a marriage had beginnings before the marriage..thus the person who entered into the marriage in the first place, knowing there is abuse is held accountable for their decision to marry. That's not to say they are supposed to stay married....the point being..when one considers marriage...they better make sure to take time to think it over and such.....

        April 24, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Blaming the victim... Nice response, kermit.

          April 24, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I don't blame the victim for the abuse......I do say they made a mistake when they got into the marriage knowing there is abuse......get it?

          April 24, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Or better yet, don't get married.

          "Because marriage doesn't work in the world today
          It's an inst.itution that is in decay.
          And if I have love I wish to portray,
          I will surely find another way."
          – Bradley Nowell (Sublime)

          April 24, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          True.

          April 24, 2014 at 4:34 pm |
        • The Ministry Of Bad Opinion says...

          You are not a psychologist, Kermit. No bloody psychologist thinks the way you do.

          If you WERE, you'd be well versed in the different personality disorders, and well versed in what the abuser does to woo the victim into marriage before exerting their power and control.

          That you don't fairly screams that you are not versed in the behavioral machinations of the abuser. You are indeed blaming the victim.

          You are a sham. Admit it, confess, and please do not represent yourself as something you clearly aren't.

          Get it?

          April 24, 2014 at 10:46 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          LOLOLOL..NO psychologist thinks this way> boy are You the one who lives in a basement of their parents house never getting out into reality of whats out there...Psychologists do NOT all think alike..sorry to be the beaer of bad news..I work with psychologists from ALL aspects and walks of life.from agnostics, Hindu, New Age, to Christians and atheists....maybe you need to get out of the basement and visit some psychologists some time...

          April 25, 2014 at 2:06 am |
        • kermit4jc

          OH..and I KNOW about how the abuser woos the person in..I did NOT even imply that I didn't know that....sheesh..MAYBE you should ask people before you assume stupid things like that

          April 25, 2014 at 2:08 am |
        • kermit4jc

          OH..and I did NOT totally blme the victim either....you seem to merely skimmed my posts..if you actually read my posts youd see that....

          April 25, 2014 at 2:08 am |
      • Peaceadvocate2014

        Nobody is forcing anybody anything. That is why marriage is sacred, true love, something we have to uphold for the rest of our lives and not arranged, impulse or other means.

        I would like to discuss more on confessions privacy rather than divorce because you wont change my position regarding divorce. Having said that, i am also susceptible to sin.

        April 24, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
      • Alias

        mariages do not cause voilence.
        If you bible thumpers are going to tell the res tof us we need to convert, then you need to follow your own rules even when it is difficult.

        April 24, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          who is saying the marriages cause violence?

          April 24, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
        • Alias

          My fault, I forgot I had to spell everything out in this blog.
          If the problem is violence, then maybe you should address the problem directly. The mariage didn't cause the violence, so ending the marriage is unlikely to end the violence. Your implied sort term solution of seperating the current victom from the situation does have some merrit, but I think you are dodging the real issue of divorce being forbidden by the religion you come here to promote.

          April 24, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Alias,

          Not a matter of conversion but understanding the teachings of God.

          It is easy to know but hard to do even for a believer like me.

          April 24, 2014 at 4:52 pm |
        • Madtown

          understanding the teachings of God
          ----
          That's a tough one. To understand the teachings, you first need to know where to look to even reference them. They're not in the bible, that's the creation of man.

          April 24, 2014 at 5:22 pm |
        • tallulah131

          In the case of my parents, marriage did indeed cause violence. They married very young and quickly realized that they really didn't have that much in common. They felt trapped and the outlet they found for their frustration was violence. As soon as they divorced, the violence went away. And eventually, they both remarried and were happy. So spell it any way you want, Alias. Your spelling doesn't matter. Every situation is different.

          April 24, 2014 at 7:58 pm |
  8. snowr14

    So, the pope is tryng to bring an arcane religion into the new world, huh.

    It kinda makes you think, if someone can change any rule of a religion as the social norms deem fit, what other parts of the said religion are to be considered "truth" or "absolute". Nothing, of course.

    More evidence that these "rules"/"laws" are just made up wishlist of 2000 year old power hungry politicians

    April 24, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
    • ifhorseshadgods

      "I, the Lord, do not change."
      Malachi 3:6

      But apparently "his" rules do! lol

      April 24, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
    • raven100382

      People have forgotten that Faith and Religion are two different things. Faith is belief in a higher power or anything without evidence. Religion is the Dogma that must be adhered to be a member of the community.

      April 24, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
  9. ifhorseshadgods

    Actually csl31,
    "Faith is a continuation of reason." was quoted by William Adams NOT Twain.

    And just what you'd expect from a sailor who lived in the late 1500's .. they were a highly supersttious lot who frequently saw mermaids.

    April 24, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
  10. greengestalt

    Again, wow one that walks the walk!

    April 24, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
  11. budshot

    Such stupid rules religions have created.

    April 24, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
  12. ifhorseshadgods

    Religion is like language. You speak what you were born into (family, country), you even speak it with an accent according to where and when you were born. Before you even know it (literally) it's all you know. When you get older you learn there are and have been other languages .. you either choose to learn them or ignore them. But to realize there is no single correct language (or religion) is one path to wisdom.

    April 24, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
  13. georgiahedrick

    I can't believe I just read ALL THESE POSTS, but I did. I think God needs to recall the product we call human; it is really defective. gh

    April 24, 2014 at 12:27 pm |
    • igaftr

      It would be more accurate for humans to recall the gods they made. The gods ( or what people imagine gods are) are defective.

      April 24, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
      • georgiahedrick

        Sorry, but God makes more sense to me than mankind. I can only hope for a recall of mankind. I am sorry that you have no Faith in God. It must be lonely for you, but maybe you like it that way. Peace, my child. All I can do for you and the rest of mankind is pray to God. gh

        April 24, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
        • nclaw441

          Georgia, I don't think faith is a choice. Ephesians 2:8.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          You are right: Faith is not a choice. Faith is a gift. I do not have any sort of power to give you such a gift. I am sorry.

          I can no more make you believe in what I believe in than I could make you love what I love. But I can pray, and I do and will. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          The "self-hatred" your religion promotes is a scourge upon all of humanity. The concept that humans are so broken and without value short of the "salvation of your god" needs to be opposed whenever possible. That concept is not a benefit, it is an inherent flaw.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Therefore I will pray for your peace of soul. I see how unhappy you are. I feel the anger. There is nothing more for me to do for you but pray. I will do so. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          It is not self hatred at all..it is admitting we make mistakes..and we HAVE value..if we didn't..God would have just said scre w you and left us to defend for ourselves..the fact that He PROVIDES Salvation shows value..Im sorry you choose to go on a value system that demans people and makes them only valuable in a shallow way

          April 24, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
        • igaftr

          Just because I do not share in your delusion does not mean anything is lonely for me. How sad your religion makes you think you are somehow happier for your unjustifyable belief. It is even more sad that you think belief in deities makes sense, since there is no evidence of any gods anywhere, but there is a great eal of evidence showing men like to create gods.
          I assure you, I am neither lonely nor sad, and if I was, no belief in any deities would change that, unless you think the placebo effect can make that great a change.
          how sad your religion makes you think I am somehow unhappier than you or that I am lonelier than you...simply sad you think that.

          Which ot the thousands of gods is yours anyway?

          April 24, 2014 at 1:01 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          I believe in one God, Creator of all. I believe in the Son of God. I believe in the Spirit of God. I term this one God in three persons and I call it: The Holy Trinity. That is my Faith. period. I will still pray to this God for you and your peace of soul. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
        • igaftr

          Ahhh, the old "one true" god claim. There are over 400 "one true" gods.
          If you mean the Abrahamic god, then you are a polythesit, you must believe in other gods as well.

          Doesn't your god say, in one of his top ten no-no list say your should have no OTHER god before me...clearly indicating there are OTHER gods. Right?

          April 24, 2014 at 1:10 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Good news georgia, no need to pray. I found peace when I left your religion.

          April 24, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          I will still pray for you. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
        • igaftr

          ". I will still pray to this God for you "
          Yeah, I didn't get you anything either.
          Not for me, you do it for yourself.
          Keep your witchcraft to yourself.

          April 24, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Prayer is as simple as a thought sent to God. No Witchraft involved. I will still pray for you. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • igaftr

          Again, keep your witchcraft to yourself. You are trying to invoke god magic, to me that is witchcraft and your prayers are not welcome. You may think they are thoughts to god, but they never leave your head. They are for you and you alone. Keep them that way.

          April 24, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Still I pray for you, like it or not. Still I pray. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 3:26 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          By the way georgia, don't you find it a little ironic that you started this thread by insinuating that humanity was so awful that your god needs to "recall" all humans? Sounds like you are the one who needs to find some personal peace. Just sayin....

          April 24, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • ifhorseshadgods

          "Faith is what you need to believe what you know ain't true." -Mark Twain

          April 24, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Praying for mankind's extinction doesn't seem very Christian...
          I thought rainbows were God's reassurance that He'll never take a mulligan on creation again, like He did with the flood.
          "For God so loved the world that He utterly destroyed 99.9% of all life on it."

          April 24, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          I do not pray for extinction; I pray for a 're-do. gh

          April 24, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • budshot

          I only knew true loneliness when I was a believer. Freeing myself from the constrictions, contradictions, and outright madness of religious belief brought me real peace. Made me a better person. A more generous, happy, giving, accepting, loving person.

          April 24, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
        • csl311

          "Faith is a continuation of reason." -Mark Twain

          April 24, 2014 at 2:42 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious - unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind & keep them shut by force.
          - Mark Twain

          April 24, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • ifhorseshadgods

          Actually csl31,
          "Faith is a continuation of reason." was quoted by William Adams NOT Twain.

          And just what you'd expect from a sailor who lived in the late 1500's .. they were a highly supersttious lot who frequently saw mermaids.

          April 24, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
        • snowr14

          Every sentence you have written screams "I am better than you because of my blind belief" and you expect to be taken seriously? You are one delusional jack a–, you know. If your prayer has so much power, pray for yourself to be given some humbleness – which, incidentally, is one of the important teachings of the god you CLAIM to follow.

          April 24, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
      • raven100382

        Lay off the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I can't wait to swim in the beer volcano.

        April 24, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
    • In Santa We Trust

      Another flood maybe? What if yours is not the chosen family?

      April 24, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
      • georgiahedrick

        No more floods. Somewhere I read, and I forget its source (sorry about that), the next time God cleans creation, it shall be fire. I know I will die someday, maybe soon, as I am 74. I don't worry one way or the other. I just have Faith and I have Love in me. I will go see God. And still I will be praying for all of us. Peace. gh

        April 24, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
        • jhg45

          actually it was said right after "the flood" so please go and read the book you claim to share belief in. I believe your faith is genuine but it needs to be based on accurate knowledge to be saved (see 1 Tim.2:4) and while at it look at (2 Tim.3:7) where it talks about you but there is hope. please read and get back.

          April 24, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Dear jhg45–I read the sections you gave me to read. You said: " I believe your faith is genuine but it needs to be based on accurate knowledge to be saved (see 1 Tim.2:4) and while at it look at (2 Tim.3:7) where it talks about you but there is hope."

          Ok–1 Timothy 2 verse 4 about praying for everyone and there is one God, and His Mediator is Jesus. Ok
          Then I read 2 Timothy 3, verse7, about 'silly women obcessed with their sins and never come to the truth'.

          So, how does all this fit in with praying for all people and so that all of us be at peace instead of picking each other apart?

          Once, I had a theology professor who taught us 'the Bible' end to end. We read it all. He emphasized that the Bible is the written word of God, ONLY IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT WAS WRITTEN The more translated it becomes, the less word for word is to be taken as such. Therefore, since I do not read Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek, I can only read translations and depend upon the scholors to clue me in as to meaning.

          And so it is. I still depend upond scholors who have read the original writing. I have learned that the Bible is not a word for word in English book to be understood. So, when you send me to read 1 Timothy or 2 Timothy, I can only read the English translation. What is the meaning you want me to learn? gh

          April 24, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
        • jhg45

          gh; 1 Tim.4:2 talks about God's will is for all to be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth, and a catholic bible I have says "to understand this truth". so knowing the truth of the Bible is necessary to be saved which Matthew 24:13,14 says that being saved only comes to those who "endure to the end of this system" and that "this good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world so that all nations hear it and then finally the end will come" in all translations that I have seen. Back to 2 Tim.3:7 which after discussing the "last days" vs.1-5, would be critical or difficult to Christians, vs. 7,8 mention those who would be following teachers but never understanding the truth, or as another translation puts it "always learning but never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth". I notice all translations give the same message but I believed after learning how wrong the "trinity doctrine" is I investigated more doctrines of the catholic religion and others and found many teachings do not come under this "accurate knowledge" umbrella and so that when we read a true translation we understand what the truth really is about God; The Father; Jesus, (The Son of God) and The Holy Spirit,(God's active force) and they do not mean a trinity which was a pagan doctrine taken from Egypt and Babylon etc.and never found in the Bible. (The Encyclopedia Britannica and the New Catholic Encyclopedia) both confirm this doctrine is not found in the Bible. If you are interested in learning more of what the Bible really teaches please reply.

          April 24, 2014 at 10:09 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          To jhg45: I am thinking that whatever translation of the Bible you are reading is not the translation I am reading. I read from THE JERUSALEM BIBLE, c1968, I also have THE NEW AMERICAN CATHOLIC BIBLE C1961 but the print is so small I have difficulty ready it. Since I do not know Aremaic, or Greek, or Hebrew, I am not able to read the original versions. So, I am stuck with reading English translations. Sorry.

          My 1Timothy 4:2 doesn't say what you have quoted it as saying. This particular section talks about "doctrines that come from the devil" "and the cause of this is the lies told by hypocrites". (Now this actually sounds like many of the people posting on this website–and frankly, I have never seen nor heard such hatred and disgust for the RCC.) But you sound sincere; yet my Bible and your Bible do not say the same stuff. I always thought that all Bible said the same stuff, just worded a bit differently. now both my Catholic Bible say pretty much the same thing in the same locations. However, it doesn't what you say it says. So what does it mean? Is there a Bible for Catholics and another one for those who are not Catholics? I never thought about this before. gh ps–my belief in the Trinity is solid–Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Nothing shakes that belief.

          April 25, 2014 at 4:04 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Georgia
          There are innumerable versions of the Bible – some are only subtly different and some are vastly different.
          There are 66 books in the typical Protestant Bible, 73 in the Catholic, 78 in Eastern Orthodox, 81 in Ethiopian Orthodox and 65 in the Mormon.
          The translations can be tricky and sometimes misleading.
          For example, In the original Greek, the terms used in Corinthian's list of vices that are sometimes translated as "hom-ose.xual" are 'malakoi' and 'ar.senkoitai'.
          AR.SENKOTAI – Has been translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV), "se.xual per.verts" (RSV), "sodo.mites" (NKJV, NAB, JB, NRSV), those "who are guilty of hom.ose.xual per.version" (NEB), "men who lie with males" (Lamsa), "behaves like a hom.ose.xual" (CEV), "men who have se.xual relations with other men" (NCV), and "ho.mose.xual offenders" (NIV).

          MALAKOI – Literally means "soft" or "males who are soft". This word has been translated as "ef.feminate" (KJV), "hom.ose.xuals" (NKJV), "corrupt" (Lamsa), "per.verts" (CEV), "catamites" which means call boys (JB), "those who are male prosti.tutes" (NCV), and "male prost.itutes." (NIV, NRSV).
          Until the Reformation in the 16th century and in Roman Catholicism until the 20th century, malakoi was thought to mean "mas.turb.ators."

          As for The Trinity –
          The idea of a trinity contradicts the most basic tenet of Judaism – that God is One. Jews have declared their belief in a single unified God twice daily ever since the giving of the Torah at Sinai.
          In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry.
          The Bible doesn't explicitly teach the doctrine of the Trinity.
          The twelve apostles never subscribed to it or received revelation about it.
          The word "Trinity", nor such language as one in three, three in one, one essence or substance or three persons, is biblical language. The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient Church, taken not from the Bible but from classical Greek philosophy.
          It was the Roman Emperor Constantine who pushed for it to become dogma at the Council of Nicea, despite the fact that the "3 in one" thing was been declared heresy by Dionysius of Alexandria and had been condemned by the Council of Antioch.
          There was no formal, established doctrine of the Trinity until the fourth century abd that was becuase The Emperor demanded it.

          April 25, 2014 at 4:12 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Mercy me! So many versions and so little time to read them all.! Seriously, I can only read one version and stay with it. I am not a scholor. I do not do comparative religions' studying. I wish I knew the original languages in which the books were written, but I do not. I thank you for your information, however. The amount of books accepted vary among religions–now I learned something new.

          As to the Trinity, what I was taught about it in college made the best sense to me and so I stay with it and I believe it solidly. And, yes, I know that both Jews and Muslims believe in ONE GOD. My Catholic belief in a Trinity–One God in Three Persons–is pagan and horrifying to them. I understand that.

          I went for many years searching–from my early 30's onward–and what I believe now, I arrived at slowly and surely and solidly. Thomas Aquinas and his Summa Theologica have been the great clarifier for me as to my Faith.

          Again, I thank you for the clarification as to the various books in the Bible according to various religions. I know I am elderly but I still like to know and to learn. Thank you. gh

          April 25, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • jhg45

          gh; sorry we got changed from 1 Tim.2:4 to 4:2 and that was my mistake since the discussion was started about ch.2:4 that says that God wants us to come to an accurate knowledge of his word. The JB translation is a very good one but I have found I like to compare others and that way see the sense of what is being said. I appreciate your views and thank you for the discussion and hope you will keep an open mind about the various translations and look into The New World Translation that is made directly from the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English. You can read this on line at jw.org and I encourage you to check out this web site to learn more about what the Bible really teaches. Another passage that Jesus taught from his Sermon on the Mount is Matt.7:13-23 where Jesus taught about the narrow gate and cramped road that lead to life and the warning vs.21-23. this is so important and no matter our age (you have a couple years on me) do not think we can not learn about the hope and "come to an accurate knowledge". Thanks again for the "interchange of encouragement", Heb.ch.10; that I find is quite rare here and I Hope you look into that web site and look forward to share more scriptures with you in the future. j

          April 25, 2014 at 9:45 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Ok, now I read the section that says 'He wants everyone to be saved'. Thank you for the redirection. Now I am going to the site of jw.org and read what it says. Yes, I find many of the folks on this site totally 'out in left field' with anger and hatred. I didn't think a discussion of religion (or anything else) ought to be that way. I am all for learning new ideas and hearing how others think on their beliefs. I don't like all this talk that blames and name-calls any religion. It hurts my heart to know how much some people hate everything or nearly everything the RCC teaches. No one is forcing them to believe anything, as far as I know.

          Ok. Off I go to jw.org to read. Thank you for that connection. gh

          April 26, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
        • jhg45

          gh; great, let me know what you think and if you have any questions about how and why I looked into this, let me know and keep asking, seeking and knocking and it will be opened,(Mt.7:7), peace, j

          April 26, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          Oh dear me. JW is Jehovah's Witnesses, yes? I have had JWs at my door many a time. I realiize that they have one name for God: Jehovah. But I know that God is also known as 'Elohim'–I am unsure of the correct spelling. I remember when I graduated St. Thomas Aquinas High School, we sang this song: "Great is Jehovah the Lord; Mighty is his Power'. Since I was 17 back then and now am 74, I don't remember more of the song than that. I also know that ALL ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS come from the Greek, the Aramaic, the Hebrew. But it is only in those languages is the true written word of God.. So I am stuck reading the English, no matter where the Bible is. I am most grateful for whatever scraps fall from the Master's table and so I do read my Bible. I also read my Catholic Catechism–that John Paul II was instrumental in assembling. Please know that I will be Catholic all the days of my life, no matter what horrible things I see and read being said on this site.

          Here is one thing to wonder about: I read somewhee that Jesus came to save the many. However, Timothy says Jesus came to save all. I wonder why there is this discrepancy? Any ideas? gh

          April 26, 2014 at 8:03 pm |
        • jhg45

          gh; thanks for your honesty and I appreciate you continue to discuss the scriptures and the two scripts you mentioned really do not contradict but really just support this discussion about translations where One says many and the other says all just shows that Jesus did come to save all but all will not be saved but many may be saved.. Where i read that the road to life is narrow and the road to destruction is broad indicates what Jesus said about only those who endured will be saved leaves it open for all or many or few but the key is to endure this system as cleanly as possible and leave it to JHVH and Jesus to do the judging. We do believe that God Jehovah is the name that Jesus meant when he said in John ch.17 that he had made his Father's name known and would again,(John 17:26) after praying (the whole chapter) to his Father and in vs.3 said that coming to know his Father and Him would lead to eternal life.Reading the whole chapter helps understand what he was saying to his Father in prayer. Good reading and I hope when Jehovah"s Witnesses come again you will share your questions and concerns with them as reasonably as you have with me and I know you will enjoy your discussions. I only wish you were in our territory and it would be easier to do this face to face but thanks again for the interchange, peace, j

          April 26, 2014 at 9:23 pm |
        • georgiahedrick

          You Know, I read your post and I wonder what all the rest of the readers out there are thinking–do they say to themselves: 'how dare these two people just talk about Scripture! There is so much to hate, so many to make fun of, and these two are talking scripture–what is wrong with them???'

          But they are not our worry. Well, they are and they aren't., as I cannot begin to change how they see things. My thought is: those who want to hate, will hate; those who want to love, will love.

          Whether we call God: Jehovah or Elohim or Abba, Father seems a moot point. What matters is that we pray, we do good works, and we care as much as we can for this poor world.

          Right now, I go to celebrate Mass with my Parish. Peace. gh

          April 27, 2014 at 10:35 am |
        • jhg45

          gh; one more point on Jehovah's name, it is just that and as you sang many others have sung HALLELUJAH which when translated means praise Jah a shortened form of Jehovah and throughout the Bible in the original scriptures His name was used over 6,900 times and was always known as God Almighty.See Psalms 83:18 in your Bible and also in many other places. However it has been taken out of many versions but JWs have replaced it in its proper places. Another Bible,(Divine Name King James Version) has a great preface to this and tells what happened and why and how they replaced His Name to its proper places. you can also look up their website for more info on this but I will leave you with this for tonight and thanks again, j

          April 26, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
    • lewcypher

      Christians are such a self-loathing bunch.

      Glad I'm not one of them.

      April 24, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        you can be a Christian and NOT be self loathing

        April 24, 2014 at 3:43 pm |
        • igaftr

          That's true...just look at the resident Rainer....he loathes EVERYONE else.

          April 24, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
        • The Ministry Of Bad Opinion says...

          Rainier is the best unwitting advocate for atheism. He is such a hateful person.

          April 24, 2014 at 10:53 pm |
    • sam stone

      humans created god

      April 24, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
  14. akismet-a78b4ff3c97111254b8aa1d5de492044

    Blessed are the Cheesemakers – I assume that your belief that there is no God is based on something besides your ignorance. I'm not a believer in organized religion, but I believe there is a God, and I believe that Jesus was his son. Whether you believe or not, making fun of those who do believe just shows that you are not very intelligent. Even science can't say there is no God, so what makes you so sure. After all, no matter how you put it, the "Big Bang" had to come from somewhere or someone. It didn't just happen. So, next time you have a thought, do us all a favor and forget it. "It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it beyond all doubt."

    April 24, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
    • In Santa We Trust

      Believers make the claim for a god so they need to provide the evidence.
      I can understand believing in a god that is not the personal god of an organized religion, but Jesus really is closely associated with christianity which is very organized.

      April 24, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
    • lewcypher

      Fortunately in the U.S. we can ridicule the beliefs of another without penalty. We have to respect another persons right to practice a religion but we don't have to respect the reationale behind it.

      For example religion and the worship of gods is like saying 2+2=Fish. Now there is a a mound of evidence supporting 2+2=4 but none for 2+2=Fish. So it's kind of like if your kid came home from school and said that the teacher taught them that 2+2=Fish. What would you do?

      April 24, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      First I did not say that there is NO god. I said Wilbur's god did not exist. And if you believe in Wilbur's god (Jesus) I will make the same argument. The god of the bible is just as real as Zues or Thor or Gnesh. If you have an argument that I am wrong, provide it. Saying "there was a Big Bang and something had to cause it, therefore MY god is real" is probably one of the most ignorant conclusions one could make. And I was not "making fun" of anyone. I was pointing out the absurdity of Christianity. Don't like it? Too bad.

      April 24, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
    • sam stone

      really? christianity isn't an organized religion?

      April 24, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
    • sam stone

      science cannot prove there's no leprechauns, either. but, that dosn't mean there is reason to believe in them

      April 24, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
    • The Ministry Of Bad Opinion says...

      I assume your blind faith is due to your ignorance...and that your username is based on the same thing.

      You sound 9.

      April 24, 2014 at 11:01 pm |
  15. dzerres

    What's the problem here? She's not divorced – her husband is. That is if you even care what a guy in a dress wearing red shoes pretends to know about what Jesus would be thinking.

    April 24, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
  16. clank347

    I wholeheartedly support divorced people and their spouses to pretend to be practicing cannibals.

    April 24, 2014 at 11:53 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Mmmmmm.... soylent saviour

      April 24, 2014 at 11:54 am |
    • clouseau2

      Good one!

      April 24, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
  17. lewcypher

    Yes, more religious trappings left over from our ancestors ingnorance.

    Religion and the worship of gods has been an unprecedented waste of time and resources..............unless of course your name is Osteen or Meyer or Roberts or Graham or Jones or any one of the thousands of other hucksters out there.

    April 24, 2014 at 11:47 am |
  18. mightym7

    Is there anything on this planet more laughably absurd that someone putting on a costume and declaring themselves an authority on the "supernatural"? If so, I have yet to witness it.

    April 24, 2014 at 10:13 am |
    • akismet-a78b4ff3c97111254b8aa1d5de492044

      Yes. Someone who replies to blogs thinking that their thoughts are actually important.

      April 24, 2014 at 11:51 am |
      • dzerres

        Even funnier? Internet trolls.

        April 24, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
      • In Santa We Trust

        And then you reply on a blog!

        April 24, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
    • sam stone

      costume or not, it's still absurd

      April 24, 2014 at 4:19 pm |
  19. ausphor

    Cute. When do you need a crutch, when you are perfectly healthy or when your leg is broken? You go to the Lord to assuage your guilt. Neat trick sinning and repenting makes all you self righteous Christians so holier that thou.

    April 24, 2014 at 8:57 am |
    • ausphor

      reply to pour... below.

      April 24, 2014 at 8:58 am |
  20. pourmonamijc

    Again, Pope Francis is right. Do you do your laundry when your clothes when are clean or dirty ? Obvious isn't it. Same thing in the spiritual life; you don't go to the Lord when you think or fell clean. You go to the Lord to be cleansed. That's what Matthew 9:12-13 means.

    April 24, 2014 at 8:42 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Divorcees must remain celibate for the rest of their lives to be right with God.
      Remarrying is a public admission of one's intent to live in perpetual sin – something for which you cannot be forgiven.
      Repentance necessitates a legitimate effort to stop sinning.
      One who marries a divorcee is enabling and contributing to their sin and since the 2nd marriage is not blessed, the spouse is guilty of living in sin as well.

      The Lord will not cleanse those who are unwilling to truly repent.
      Unless they can find someone selling indulgences or convert to Anglicanism, a divorced Catholic is SOL when it comes to a second marriage.

      April 24, 2014 at 9:02 am |
      • akismet-a78b4ff3c97111254b8aa1d5de492044

        Not necessarily. The first marriage can be annulled. You have to speak to your priest who will arrange for the hearing. You explain what happened, they speak to the ex and make a decision. The marriage can be officially annulled by the church leaving you free to remarry.

        Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that He doesn't exist. Your (and everyone else's) opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's, and making fun of religious people only shows your ignorance. I don't care what science has to say, the "Big Bang" had to come from somewhere or someone. It didn't just "appear".

        April 24, 2014 at 11:56 am |
        • In Santa We Trust

          When you can provide evidence of a god and evidence that it created the universe, there wouldn't be much debate.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          You'll note my choice of term: "Divorcees"
          Annulments are only granted in certain circu/mstances such as diminished mental capacity at the time of marriage, unwillingness to bear children, infidelity, or if the marriage was agreed to under duress.
          Though the RCC got a lot more lax about handing them out after the 2nd Vatican Council, historically, such dispensations were rather difficult to obtain – it is one of the reasons why Henry VIII started the Anglican Church.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
        • igaftr

          "come from somewhere" does not indicate any gods. Gods come from men's imaginations. Men create gods...thousands of them.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
        • otoh2

          I know a couple who had the husband's first TWO marriages annulled by the Church on the grounds that he was baptized Protestant, not "bona fide" y'know, so those marriages were de-recognized by the Catholic Church.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
        • staceydjmom

          I am a divorced practicing Catholic. My ex-husband, who felt the need to have simultaneous affairs while we were married, has no business being involved in my spiritual life. The Church's need to involve an adulterer in decisions about an innocent party that has already suffered such a wrong is morally reprehensible.

          April 24, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
      • chadtg

        Okay I have no ideal what the Catholic church says but I do know what the bible says. The only grounds for divorce is fornication (adultery). They are legally allowed to get a divorce in God's eyes if the marital bonds have been broken. Matthew 19:9. The person getting the divorce for it to be legal would be the innocent party not the person doing the cheating. Once they are divorce through that method then they are free to marry again. No Pop needed that God's laws. As for this woman's situation if the husband cheated with her and got the divorce and the previous wife had done nothing and still has done nothing to break the bonds of marriage it is not valid according Matt the 19th chapter. Otherwise the woman is committing adultery every time she sleeps with her husband. If the husband divorced his wife for non scriptural reasons and there is only one, then she commits fornication then he is free to marry. Since we don't know all the facts its best to mind our own business. As for Catholicism they do their own thing so I will leave it alone and let them do them.

        April 24, 2014 at 12:24 pm |
        • Madtown

          I do know what the bible says
          ---–
          That doesn't mean you know what God thinks about this topic. God didn't write the bible. The bible contains the thoughts of it's human authors, and their ideas about what they believe God to be like.

          April 24, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Christianity provides the disease (sin) and then offers the cure (salvation).

      Its a good scam.

      April 24, 2014 at 9:24 am |
      • wilburw7

        How does Christianity provide the sin?

        April 24, 2014 at 9:49 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Because a rib clone listened to a talking snake and ate magic fruit, all human beings are born stained with Original Sin that can only be washed away by joining the church and participating in various rituals.

          April 24, 2014 at 9:54 am |
        • wilburw7

          Doc Vestibule, So you are without sin?

          April 24, 2014 at 9:58 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Sin lies only in harming others unnecessarily.
          All other "sin" is invented nonsense, with "heresy" and "blasphemy" fighting it out for ti/tle of "most absurd".

          April 24, 2014 at 9:58 am |
        • wilburw7

          Doc Vestibule, What does hell look like? Are there people screaming there?

          April 24, 2014 at 10:01 am |
        • ausphor

          willy
          Why are you asking silly questions? If you have a point make it.

          April 24, 2014 at 10:06 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          While I sometimes feel as though my office is situated in one of the lower levels of Hell, it's actually just north of Toronto.
          Nobody is screaming around here, but the day is young.

          April 24, 2014 at 10:07 am |
        • wilburw7

          ausphor, No.

          April 24, 2014 at 10:11 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Sin is a crime against your god.

          Your god is not real, therefore sin is not real.

          April 24, 2014 at 11:34 am |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          Sin against a God is kind of like letting your toe slip past the line when bowling...

          God "Am I the only one around here who gives a shlt about the rules?! Mark it zero!"

          April 24, 2014 at 7:57 pm |
      • dzerres

        You forgot the money angle – religion provides the salvation if enough money is paid out.

        April 24, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.