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Dwindling witnesses of the Holocaust
April 28th, 2014
09:57 AM ET

Dwindling witnesses of the Holocaust

(CNN) - The old man exited a car and immediately ran through the forest to what he remembered was a mass gravesite. “The Germans were here,” he said. "The people were in a row, and they just shot them in the back, one by one.”

Mikhail K, a man well into his 80s, said he was just a boy when he witnessed Nazi German soldiers massacre villagers in southern Russia in the 1940s. In 2012,photographer Markel Redondo accompanied him to a site near the village of Ladozhskaya in the region of Krasnodar to document his memories surrounding the atrocity.

Mikhail stood silently for a moment, “remembering and looking at the place,” Redondo recalled. "You could see there was something going on in his head.”

Redondo met Mikhail and other witnesses as part of an initiative by the Paris-based group Yahad – In Unum. The project aims to locate and document World War II sites where Jews and other victims were executed by Nazis and their allies throughout Eastern Europe. Yahad – In Unum has chosen not to reveal the witnesses’ full names.

Redondo spoke with CNN ahead of Days of Remembrance, when Holocaust victims are honored during the week of April 27-May 4.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (675 Responses)
  1. samsstones

    Topher
    You are so deluded you cannot even tell when you are lying your ass off.

    April 28, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
  2. bostontola

    Hitler was not shy in front of the microphone. There are lot's of quotes where he shows he was Christian, and lots where he wasn't. There is no conflict in that. He started as a Christian and at some point dropped it. Like Stalin, Hitler probably didn't want to share power with the church.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      I think he was afraid to tackle the church. The one thing more evil than him.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
      • igaftr

        It was more like the church was afraid ( even agreed) with him. After the Reichkonkordat, a deal he made with the catholics, and pushed by the vatican, by a man who would become pope, the church was afraid of Hitler, and may have even agreed with what he was doing.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        He used the Church much like corporate America, Fox News and the Republican party have used conservative Christians. They don't really give two shlts about the Christian religion, they just need the voter base. I think they got themselves into trouble though with the tea party because I don't think they realized who they were getting into bed with... now it's hurting them in the polls.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          well said.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          How to fix politics in the US
          1) Put every politician on a fixed, $50,000 per year income. If THEY have to live on a budget, then just maybe they can make one for the US
          2) Immediate public and televised executions of any politician caught lying.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:04 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Perhaps. Hitler was always talking out of both sides of his mouth.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • samsstones

          Theo
          Point 2. If that also applied to fundie posters you would be meeting jesus right soon.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • Akira

          Theo, agree with the first one; your second one seems to be in direct violation of the 6th Commandment.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          If you think putting them on a $50k fixed income would correct the revolving door of the legal political reward system we have established you are an idiot. But then I think your post about the jews deserving what they got because they broke your Gods covenant made that pretty clear.

          The current system in place allows them to make the big bucks two years after they leave office after getting the corporate backers what they wanted and also continue to provide the connections they need with the current members. They get hired on as multi-million dollar a year "consultants" and have hand shake deals in place with past, current and future congress and senate members who keep the scam going and even pass laws making it essentially legal as long as you don't write an email saying "I want to confirm that job later for this vote on the pipeline i'm about to make."

          April 28, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Theo, I don't think their salary is a big issue; it's the perpetual fund-raising that a) distracts them and b) creates a debt to the major donors who expect payment in the shape of favorable legislation, tax breaks, and beneficial projects. Remove that money from politics to make any meaningful reforms.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          neverbeenhappieratheist
          Relax... It was said with a smirk. It was kind of like a joke, only smaller.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Akira, it was a joke.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
        • samsstones

          theo
          Austin got busted for making similar threats against politicians, the authorities don't take those sort of comments as "funny".

          April 28, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Austin got busted for making similar threats against politicians, the authorities don't take those sort of comments as "funny".
          --------------–
          And if any official sees that as a specific threat, then they need to have their head examined.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • Akira

          Theo, too bad. It would have been great to try and see those politicos trying to manage on what the rest of us do.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          The only thing I can imagine might get close to fixxing politics is forcing all of them to "live in glass houses" as it were. That and campaign finance reform. If we had them followed around night and day with cameras like some reality show and got to listen to every phone call and every closed meeting and had total transparency combined with a federal election fund while banning all corporate and individual donations to any specific candidate. Of course then no one would want the job because it would be hard, under constant scrutiny and there would be no upside after leaving office.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "Austin got busted for making similar threats against politicians"

          Did he get arrested, have three quarters of his brain removed, then come back to post about dreaming of dead cats?

          April 28, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
        • samsstones

          theo
          Well don't even utter the word bomb in an airport or fire in a theater, not considered amusing. Authorities can be as big of a pr!ck as your god, some think they are a mini-god.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
        • samsstones

          ...never...
          I was going to make a reference about dreaming of pu$$y's and dead cats may not be considered the same thing but that maybe too crude, oops.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Well don't even utter the word bomb in an airport
          --------------
          I did that one time by accident! When I was in high school coming back from Puerto Rico, I had a breadfruit with me that I had stuffed into a carry-on bag because I wanted to make a bowl out of it, and when they asked me if I had anything to declare, I couldn't remember what the thing was called... I told them that It was a big, round, dark, and "bomb-shaped" fruit... Just then the alarm on the x-ray machine that's designed to pick up "organic material" goes off... This was back in the 90's – it was funny then... Not so much now...

          April 28, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
    • Salero21

      It not who starts but who finish the race that really counts at the very end. He never started as a Christian either. I don't believe you. And the reason I don't believe you is because atheist are Compulsive pathological Liars. Just as Hitler was.

      It is not what he claimed to be with respect to Christianity what counts, much less what he is known for. Yet again this never ending arguments are yet more Evidence on top of more Evidence of the Absolute, Complete and Total NONSENSE of atheism/evolutionism and idolatry. Idolater is what Hitler was.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
      • bostontola

        If your definition of nonsense is: taking a position that comports with all available objective evidence, then yes.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
      • igaftr

        Too funny. You COMPLETELY agree with Hitler on the subject of atheists. He may have liked you. He did not believe atheist could be moral, and put many to death with all of the others he sent. He attempted to cleanse the land of atheists. You would have fit right in with him, since you and he would have seen eye to eye.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • Salero21

          That's as Stupid as it gets, but again is a DEMONstration of what I've been saying.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • igaftr

          Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction,
          and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently,
          all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

          – Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant

          "In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German
          Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the
          public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have
          not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership. The German
          Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such
          organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members..."

          – The New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler's outlawing atheistic and freethinking
          groups in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree

          "A campaign against the 'godless movement' and an appeal for Catholic support were launched
          by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces."

          – Associated Press story, February 23, 1933,

          Hitler, like Salero, railed against atheists. His words prove you see eye to eye with him. You think like Hitler, you naughty troll.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Salero....anything YOU say is as stupid as it gets.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      For political reasons, he still had to maintain the illusion of solidarity with the Vatican.
      He took every opportunity he could to claim that his and the Vatican's views and goals were identical.

      Then there's the whole case of the Ratlines.... but that's a topic for another day.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:53 pm |
  3. Dyslexic doG

    If I was powerful enough to create the universe and design the way everything works, I wouldn't have let all those poor men, women and children suffer the horrors of the holocaust. I am pleased to say that's the difference between me and your god.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
    • Theo Phileo

      They suffered because they violated their covenant with God formed in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        just saying. If I had the power, I wouldn't be so cruel and capricious and sadistic, whatever line from an endlessly translated and revised story book people hadn't followed. Especially the poor children. Not really guilty of anything but your god sure made them suffer. I am glad to say that I would do differently.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          So, if you are told that you shouldn't murder someone, and if you do, you will die for your crime, then you agree to those terms, but instead you murder someone. Then when the judge sentences you to death, is the judge wrong? No, the judge is legally justified in doing what he did. Read Deuteronomy 28:15-68. God is justified.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          but if I had created and designed everything, there would be no murder. There would be no judgment because no-one would need to judge. There would be no war and no death and no brutality and no evil. I would have done a better job designing everything. If I was your god's elementary school teacher he would get a big fat "F" on this little project of his. What an inept, useless, pitifully flawed creation he had made.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          But didn't you watch the Matrix? Entire crops were lost when they programmed a perfect world because people rejected it!

          April 28, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          well that's a bullsh1t dodge of a reply. What sort of fantasy world do you live in?

          April 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          I gave a ridiculous answer to a ridiculous question... Romans 3:5 says that our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God… God is not the author of evil, He did not create it, but He ordains it because had a plan for it. And God’s ultimate plan is His own glorification... In eternity past, God determined to put His attributes on display, and in order to do that, He had to create a people who would be sinners – in so doing, God’s attributes of love, mercy, forgiveness, and grace would be demonstrated through the salvation of the elect. And in the same way, God’s attributes of hate for evil, justice, and wrath would be demonstrated in those who refuse to love Him. Thereby, for all eternity, the elect will forever glorify God in His mercy, and the damned will forever glorify God in His justice.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:10 pm |
        • samsstones

          theo
          As Helmut would say "Mein Gott, sie sind ein attraoe."

          April 28, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        Ah, I see. God was so very clear about his existence so there has never been any debate over who he is and what he wants from us and what his covenant with us is, right? And since there was no debate and we know for sure he exists then it's OUR fault if we break his rules and deserve to have ourselves and our children shuffled into a concrete bunker after handing off our shoes and glasses while the Nazis start the trucks and lock the doors, totally on us for not listening to God.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Yup.

          Ezekiel 16 – here, in a passage that is often not even taught in modern Synagogues due to its graphic depiction of Israel, God explains His love for His own. Israel was unlovable, unwanted, hated, and despised, but for no other reason than simply because God chose to love them, He loved them, and lavished them with His divine blessings.

          Then Israel became proud and worshipped idols. Verses 46-47 say that Israel had acted worse than Sodom. So God gave them over to their enemies and punished them.

          BUT, because God chose to love them, He establishes an everlasting covenant with them so that they shall know that He is the LORD, and God will forgive them, for they are His. (See: Zechariah 12-13)

          April 28, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          @Theo. So that's your explanation for all that death and suffering of your fellow humans?!?! You abhorrent POS.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • joey3467

          Yeah, I read Theo's post below, and his take appears to boil down to: The Jews had it coming. Pretty disturbing stuff in my opinion.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          Apparently you missed my sarcasm as it is abundantly clear to anyone with a brain that the God debate is not where near unanimous even among the same supposed religion. You have 42,000 different versions of Christianity, who can say with any certainty who God is and what he wants from us? When you have 42,000 different leaders all claiming they got it right combined with every other religion on the planet with thousands of Gods and Goddesses, millions of accounts of divine experiences and answered prayers all with exactly the same success rate (you would think the true God would have better statistics).

          To claim women and children deserved that treatment because they broke a covenant they didn't even know existed is beyond delusional, it's sick and depraved and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking it.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:04 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          because they broke a covenant they didn't even know existed
          -------------
          You're claiming Jews don't read the Torah or the Prophets?

          April 28, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
        • Akira

          Anyone who even implies that the Jews, and everyone else who died during the Holocaust, somehow deserved is not only scum, but someone who should never be given one ounce of credibility ever again.
          IMO, they are just as mentally ill as Hitler was.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "You're claiming Jews don't read the Torah or the Prophets?"

          Are you claiming that every jewish child murdered by the Nazi's had read it? And not only that but believed it?

          You are as sick as the Nazi's for your disgusting rhetoric.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:35 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Anyone who even implies that the Jews..."
          -----------------
          It wasn't me, it was the Bible... The same portion that the Jews read as a matter of fact – Ezekiel 16, Leviticus 26, De.ut.er.on.omy 28 and on, and on... The Bible is very specific of the quid pro quo nature of the covenant that He made with them. As a matter of fact, looking at incidents like the slaughter of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and yet the fact that the Jews still survive as a people are one of the best proofs that we have of the truth of the Bible.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "They suffered because they violated their covenant with God formed in Deuteronomy 28:15-68."

          This is EXACTLY what many Germans said and thought at the time as they struggled with their conscience over doing the easy thing and supporting Hitler or doing the hard thing and risk life and limb to oppose him.

          The fact that these kind of hollocaust apologies are still being repeated by supposed Christians shows how those Christians who supported Hitler thought of themselves. Not as wicked usurpers but as champions of a supposed God who doesn't have to answer to human morality.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          This is EXACTLY what many Germans said
          -----------------
          The difference is that the Germans didn't see the sinful nature of murder.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:50 pm |
        • Akira

          it wasn't me, it was the Bible....

          Although I didn't name you, I am glad you had a mind t of self-awareness.
          And now you are claiming that Hitler to be an instrument of God? That's what you seen to be implying.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "And now you are claiming that Hitler to be an instrument of God? That's what you seen to be implying."
          ---------------–
          Yup. In the same sense that Judas, who betrayed Jesus was an instrument of God. In the same sense that the Jews who had Jesus crucified were the instruments of God. The Bible tells us that God will use even an unrighteous and a sinful people to judge those whom God deems worthy of judgment, even if those to be judged are beloved of God.

          But, understand that God’s decrees are not the necessitating cause of the sins of men, but the fore determined and prescribed bounding and directing of men’s sinful acts.

          God does not take up a good man, instill an evil desire into his heart, and thereby force him to perform the terrible deed in order to execute His decree. Instead, God decreed the act, and then selected the one who was to perform the act, but He did not “make him evil” in order that he should perform the deed. On the contrary, when we look at the life of Judas, the betrayer of Jesus, he was “a devil” at the time the Lord Jesus chose him as one of the twelve. (John 6:70) And in the manifestation and exercise of his own devilry, God simply directed Judas’ actions – actions that were agreeable to his own vile heart, and performed with the most wicked of intentions. By this way, man is still accountable to God for his sins.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:08 pm |
        • Akira

          Your interpretation is particularly sick, and now you are pretending to know exactly the ways of God.
          I'm flabbergasted. The lack of empathy is staggering.

          Your version is every bit as nauseating as Rainier's, and just as bigoted.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:26 pm |
      • SeaVik

        What an igornant bigot you are Theo. Disgusting human being.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          The same portion of the Bible that the Jews read – Ezekiel 16, Leviticus 26, De.ut.er.on.omy 28 and on, and on... speak to the quid pro quo nature of the covenant that God made with them that they willingly disobeyed.

          As a matter of fact, looking at incidents like the slaughter of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and yet the fact that the Jews still survive as a people are one of the best proofs that we have of the truth of the Bible.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
        • SeaVik

          You idiot, THE BIBLE IS A WORK OF FICTION. Stop using it as an excuse to be a bigot.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "You idiot, THE BIBLE IS A WORK OF FICTION. Stop using it as an excuse to be a bigot."
          ----------------
          Atheists keep telling me that they can be moral without God. If this is an example of that, I sure hope that you don't teach your children to mock those whom you disagree with.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Theo, how disgusting that you call the fact that you think Jews deserved the Holocaust just a “disagreement”. I knew you were delusional, but I never realized you were a disgusting Nazi supporting bigot. You are a sick sick person and deserve absolutely zero respect. You’re absolutely right that I have morals. Anyone with morals intensely objects to people like you.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Theo, how disgusting that you call the fact that you think Jews deserved the Holocaust just a “disagreement”."
          -----------------
          All I have ever done was to quote the Bible. If you have a problem with me, it is not against me, but against the decrees of Scripture. Ezekiel 16, Leviticus 26, Deut. 28, Daniel 9, BUT, there is the hope of Zechariah 12-13.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
        • SeaVik

          “If you have a problem with me, it is not against me, but against the decrees of Scripture.”

          Wrong and this is what makes you an idiot. You pretend that the bible is a factual docu.ment that justifies your disgusting beliefs. It’s one thing if you want to live a life of delusion, but when you make statements about how others deserve to pay for not believing in your fantasies, you’ve crossed the line. You are no better (and hardly any different) than Ahmajinedad.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
        • Akira

          You know what? You will twist the Bible to suit your needs and biases just as thousands of people have to justify their sick views.
          It's all in the interpretation, which while you deny that, is the truth.

          That you think 12 million died because of the Bible will just cause people to say, "The Holocaust was done in the name of God." Because, according to you, it did.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
      • Akira

        They suffered because they violated their covenant with God formed in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.

        Explain how the Jews violated this covenant, and explain how you know that every single Jewish family violated it.

        Explain how the other 6 million people exterminated besides the Jews violated this covenant.

        Really. Absurd.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Idolatry, apostasy, and unbelief.
          The Jewish people were to be a witness to an unbelieving world of what a right relationship with God is supposed to look like. But instead of seeing the sacrificial system as anticipation of the lamb who would come and take away the sin of the world, they saw it as a redeeming act, and felt that their nationalism as Jews and their adhearance to the law saved them. They went after other "gods." They shunned the Messiah when He did come, and had they read and understood the prophet Daniel, they would have recognized Him.

          The fact that Judaism still exists today in denial of the Messiah is evidence to their apostasy.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
        • Akira

          With all due respect, Hitler would be proud of you and would have welcomed you with open arms.

          Your "analysis" is complete and utter bullshit.
          It is nothing more than supposition. And a really, really, particularly nasty interpretation of the OT.

          Judaism still exists because over the centuries, idiots who justify violence against them using their own Bible have been unsuccessful in eradicating them.

          Explain how the other 6 million died for that covenant? What was that, God's collateral damage?

          April 28, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          With all due respect, Hitler would be proud of you and would have welcomed you with open arms.
          -----------–
          No, because I do not approve of that which God has forbidden – namely, hatred and murder.

          "Your "analysis" is complete and utter.... It is nothing more than supposition. And a really, really, particularly nasty interpretation of the OT."
          ---------------
          Actually, it's a straightforward reading of the OT. Specifically, the quid-pro-quo passages of Leviticus 26 and again in Deuteronomy 28 (although there are others as well). The Daniel 9 passage predicts to the day when the Messiah would be presented to the Jews as their "Prince." What passages am I giving a "nasty interpretation" to?

          "Judaism still exists because over the centuries, idiots who justify violence against them using their own Bible have been unsuccessful in eradicating them."
          --------------------
          And had God chosen to wipe them out for their sins, this world would certainly have done so. But the Bible again and again reminds us that He has preserved "a remnant." Once again, the existence of the Jewish people is evidence to Biblical truth.

          "Explain how the other 6 million died for that covenant? What was that, God's collateral damage?"
          -------------------–
          I can only relate what the Bible has to say, and it tells us that the Jews' hearts are hardened due to their apostasy, and because of their apostasy, God will punish them, until such a time that they repent of their unbelief.

          "But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away." 2 Corinthians 3:14

          April 28, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
        • Akira

          Glad you agree with Hitler. Glad you agree it was all done in the name of God.

          Pathetic.

          I'm done. I have no wish to keep conversing with someone who thinks themselves such a scholar, and so pious, that they've forgotten what it is to be human, and has a convenient Bible verse handy to explain exactly why they're not.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:42 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Well said, Akira. Nailed it.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:46 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Well put Akira. Theo is truly a sick, sad and grossly misguided individual. If only he were the only one.

          April 28, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      D-doG is rightly pointing out that god is an immoral prick. I, like would not have allowed the holocaust because it is wrong and I have morals, which god lacks.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        Your morals would allow a guilty man to go unpunished.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:18 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          "I know you are, but what am I?"

          April 28, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Incorrect. Christianity lets the guilty go unpunished, while sending perfectly moral people to hell. Nothing worse I thing of.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          LET,
          Pee Wee Herman called, he wants his grey suit back.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:24 pm |
        • igaftr

          "Your morals would allow a guilty man to go unpunished."

          No, I am not a christian. That is what christian "morals" allow.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:49 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          @Theo – I'm wearing green and tan today... your reference be illing

          April 28, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • joey3467

          In fact Theo, Christianity is all about shirking your personal responsibility on to Jesus who was innocent, so that you won't get punished.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
  4. Reality

    Unfortunately, we still have Nazi "skinheads". What to do with them?

    April 28, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      What do you mean "what do we do with them?"

      April 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
      • Reality

        Put them in prison? Educate them?

        April 28, 2014 at 5:55 pm |
    • Salero21

      We Christians who are not in a post of Civil Authority, do nothing else but pray for them and witness to them about Jesus the Christ the Son of God.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        why do christians use the word witness? There were no witnesses. The stories were written down years or decades later by people who weren't even there. You should call yourselves story tellers rather than witnesses.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Fallacious.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          I agree. The entire Christian "show" is fallacious. Made up beliefs and superstitions. Crazy ceremonies and cult activities...

          April 28, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        They can just join up with other, like-minded Christian groups in the United States like The Army of God, the KKK, Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • Salero21

          You're one more piece of Evidence of the extreme hypocrisy and pathological lying of atheists. That's because atheism is Absolute, Complete and Total Stupidity.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          saltshaker, I know that is your standard post, but KKK are christian and use Genesis 9 as support for their beliefs.

          April 28, 2014 at 6:13 pm |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      The only thing we should not tollerate is intollerance.

      Everyone is welcome, except those who do not welcome everyone. It's the catch 22 of discrimination. It's the "Y" of discrimination because it's the exception to the rule.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
      • Salero21

        So sorry but that's as Absurd as it gets.
        There're many things that are Absolutely Intolerable, can't be tolerated, must be forbidden and those who say or do such things must pay a price and Justice Must be done. Of course those are way, way above and beyond you to absorb and take.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          We have to verify it was Donald Sterling's voice first so slow down....

          April 28, 2014 at 2:04 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      The KKK are also christians

      April 28, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
      • Salero21

        And you are a DEMONstration of the extreme hypocrisy and compulsive Lying of atheists.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          I like how you bold DEMON but your comments are still trailer-park trollish inanities

          April 28, 2014 at 2:19 pm |
        • Akira

          Are you implying that the KKK has no members that are Christian, Sal? Really?

          April 28, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
  5. Theo Phileo

    I'm reminded of the story of the curse of the fig tree found in Mark 11:12-22.

    In the cycle of a fig tree’s growth, the figs are formed first, then the leaves, so to see leaves on a fig tree, you would expect to see figs. In an att.itude of expectation, when no fruit was found, the result was an object lesson regarding the Judaism of the day…

    After Jesus cursed the fig tree, He immediately went into Jerusalem and cleansed the temple of the money changers, and there He condemned the chief priests and the scribes for perverting the house of God. Having leaves but no fruit, this is symbolic of the pretense of Israel’s temple worship. It was hypocrisy to the extreme. Romans 10-11 – Paul says that Israel has a zeal for God but not according to knowledge, for they sought to establish their own righteousness.

    Jesus’ apostles finally understood the object lesson when they passed by the fig tree again and saw that it was indeed withered from the roots, and Jesus says to them: “Have faith in God.” This was in opposition to the false teaching of the religious leaders of Judaism who taught that salvation came from the strict keeping of the law. The true gospel is salvation through faith in God alone, not works.

    Matthew expounds on this condemnation of the scribes and priests in 8 woes that Jesus pronounces on them in Matthew 23:13-26. Judaism is spiritually bankrupt and is indeed cursed by God.

    In Luke 13:6-9, Jesus tells of another fig tree that was fruitless. A plea was made to give it more time in hopes of producing fruit – time had indeed been given to it, but it was not fruitful, and Jesus pronounces a curse on the fig tree.

    This was a reminder to them of Deuteronomy 28:15-68 where God said that failure to obey God would bring about curse after curse, after curse…

    And that is indeed what we see with the Jewish people:

    > because of idolatry, sin, apostasy, and unbelief, the 1st temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC (Isaiah 39:6).
    > In a preview of the antichrist as depicted in Daniel 9, the 2nd temple is desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes (215-164 BC) when he forbade Jewish religious practice, ere.cted in it a statue of Zeus, sacrificed pigs on the altar, and forced the priests to eat the meat.
    > There was a revolt against the Romans (175-134 BC) followed by a short revival under Judas Maccabaeus (164-63 BC), but the Jews continued to apostatize. (These stories can be found in the apocryphal books of 1 and 2nd Maccabees)
    > In 20 BC, Herod the Great overhauls the 2nd temple, and it becomes known as Herod’s Temple.
    > In 70 AD, 6 years after the completion of the temple, the Romans destroy it during the siege of Jerusalem. (Daniel 9:26, Matthew 24:1-2)
    > During the last revolt of the Jews against the Romans in 132–135 AD, Simon bar Kokhba and Rabbi Akiva wanted to rebuild the Temple, but bar Kokhba's revolt failed and the Jews were banned from Jerusalem by the Roman Empire.
    > The emperor Julian failed to have the temple rebuilt in 363 AD.
    > After the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem in the 7th century, Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan ordered the construction of an Islamic shrine, the Dome of the Rock on the site of the Temple. The shrine has stood on the mount since 691 AD.
    > There will be another temple built in Jerusalem in the time of the tribulation that is to come. This is foretold in Daniel 9:24-27. (Sacrifices are once again inst.ituted, but you cannot have sacrifices without a temple) The temple will be again desecrated, this time by the anti-Christ when he sits in the place of God, claiming to be God.
    > The FINAL temple will be built in the Millennial Kingdom; this will be the Temple of the Messiah, depicted in Ezekiel 43, and will never be desecrated.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      I read all that .

      April 28, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        Sorry... I tend to write a lot...

        April 28, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          NO, you tend to copy and paste a lot. It is OLD man. Really old.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          I copied and pasted from a book I've written. Well, it's not so much a book as it is a notebook of theology that I've written. No, it's not published... yet...
          And I really don't care if it gets old.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Do us all a favor and start caring. It is nonsense.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
    • bostontola

      It's amusing when one group of believers think they know why other believers are wrong. It's kind of like the Star Wars vs. Star Trek debates.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        Nope. It's quoting Jesus.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Jesus nerds.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Jealous?

          April 28, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
        • bostontola

          Theo,
          Most of your post is not biblical quotes. The biblical quotes attributed to Jesus were nth hand hearsay.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          "Most of your post is not biblical quotes."
          ---------------
          Mark 11:12-22 was, but I didn't quote that because Atheists tell me all the time that they have read the Bible, so I assume that they know the passage. The rest was it's fulfillment in historical context.

          "The biblical quotes attributed to Jesus were nth hand hearsay."
          ------------------
          Wrong. What you say is nothing but nth hand heresy.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • bostontola

          Apparently, you don't know what the word 'most' means.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Quoting Jesus (or what you think are quotes from Jesus) as if it somehow proves a point is amusing. More sad than amusing actually.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        LET's Religiosity Law #5 – The highest form of ignorance... is one dumbass Christian telling another dumbass Christian that they are not really Christian... because (insert whatever dumbass thing they believe differentiates them from each other)…

        April 28, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        There is no debate.
        The Enterprise would decimate the Millenium Falcon.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          and a Battlestar would decimate those

          April 28, 2014 at 1:53 pm |
        • joey3467

          I have a garage full of iron chariots just in case I have to take on god, as the bible says god can't defeat them.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Blasphemy!
          Phasers are more powerful than Kinetic Turrets, Federation sensors are more sensitive, Federation ships are more maneuverable, the Enterprise has transporters instead of raiding parties on Raptors....

          April 28, 2014 at 2:10 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          But the Federation doesn't have nuclear weapon hardened ablative armor or kick ass Vipers!

          April 28, 2014 at 2:15 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          The nukes have a destructive yield of 5 to 150 Kilotons depending on how one calibrates them.
          Photon torpedoes yield about 60 kiltons and I dunno about quantum torpedoes – but I bet they're bigger!

          I'll give Battlestar the edge when it comes to small craft when fighting it out against the unarmed shuttles from the Enterprise or Enterprise A, but the ones on the D and E were armed....

          April 28, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          'So say we all'

          April 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        At least we can all agree that Transformers are far superior to GoBots.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:31 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          and Thundercats were greatly superior to He-Man. and Speed Racer was in the top-5 of all cartoons ever made.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          He-Man would've pointed his Sword of Power at Lion-O and then rode him to Greyskull.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          I noticed you did not question Speed Racer... that is wise. My license plate doesn't say 'Mach 5' for nothing

          April 28, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
        • fintronics

          But none compare to Fireball XL-5

          April 29, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Theo
      Why does copying and pasting lines from a story book written by people in the same deluded cult as you prove anything. Of course their fiction will be the same as your fiction.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        Because it's true, and verified throughout history. Which, of course, is what I showed.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          "Because it's true, and verified throughout history" LOL... that's a joke right?

          April 28, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • observer

          Theo Phileo,

          There has been NOTHING that substantiates the nonsensical global flood described in the Noah's ark science fiction.

          Read the bible and do some research.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      LET's Religiosity Law #4 – If you habitually spout off verses from your "holy" book to make whatever inane point you're trying to make, with total disregard to the recipients' beliefs or disbeliefs, and not once does it occur to you to question whether your book is accurate in the first place, then you are intellectually undersupplied.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        Read Ezekiel 16.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          No

          April 28, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • fintronics

          Read Harry Potter.... fiction, just like your bible

          April 29, 2014 at 3:51 pm |
  6. Roney

    The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.
    — Adolf Hitler

    Only a fool will claim that hitler was a Christian.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
    • igaftr

      Hitler believed in the Abrahmic god, but believed the jews had corrupted christianity. He did not like nor trust atheists, believed you MUST believe in god to be moral,had many put to death and falsely believed atheism was a mental illness akin h0m0$exuality.

      You case in a nutshell barely scratches the surface, but he DID believe whole heartedly in the Abrahamic god.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
      • Salero21

        Really!! So what have we here? Some delusional who believes he/she knows what a man who's long gone and dead believed wholeheartedly!! Man oh man, you're either full of it or, is it not True that this is one more piece of Evidence, of the Total NONSENSE of atheism.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • igaftr

          Considering that I have studied the man extensively while I was in Germany, had relatives that lived through the period, and studied every piece of paper I could that was related to anything the man did, I am certain MY information is accurate.

          Where does yours come from? Trolls have schools now?

          April 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      From what source did you get that quote?

      "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
      – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
      "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."
      – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
      The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms. ...The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy ...proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism...
      – Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929, on the new Lateran Treaty between Mussolini's fascist government and the Vatican
      By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society. ...
      – Adolf Hitler, speech before the Reichstag, March 23, 1933, just before the Enabling Act is passed.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
      • Akira

        Doc,
        Both Roney and Topher's ancient world quote was taken from Hitler's Table Talk, and both are disputed:

        The original German notebooks, which are the primary source for these quotations, are filtered through Martin Bormann. Henry Picker, who was one of the principal stenographers of the Table Talk wrote that "no confidence can be placed in Bormann's editing" and cautioned of "Bormann's alterations, not authorised by me."[citation needed] Some statements regarding Hitler's views of Christianity have not been translated faithfully from the original German, and have drastically altered their meaning.
        Source: wiki quotes

        April 28, 2014 at 9:05 pm |
    • Salero21

      Yup! And the Scripture tells us all who those foolish are.

      Ps 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        LET's Religiosity Law #7 – Circular "holy" book reasoning + sweaty fervor = mental retardation.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Hitler was a Christian.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
      • noahsdadtopher

        False.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          "Gott Mit Uns" nope, no christians there...

          April 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Why do you disagree Topher?

          ~~

          In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison.

          Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.

          As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice . . .

          ~Hitler April 12, 1922

          April 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          How's this:
          Hitler professed to be a Christian and most of the German people believed him.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          In fact, Anton Gil notes in his book, An Honorable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945: "For his part, Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organization, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics."

          April 28, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Hitler's background was Catholic, not Christian. And he wasn't even a Catholic.

          Just look at what he said about Christianity. He wanted people to think he was because it would benefit him. Not because he was a follower of Christ.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          July 11, 1941:

          "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

          April 28, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Topher, Hitler was a politician. He was Christian when it suited his interests. He called himself a Christian. Catholics are Christian. You are incorrect. None of us knew his heart, so I can only go by what he said. He was a Christian whether he liked it or not.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "Catholic, not Christian"
          And there is your prejudice laid bare.
          Catholics are Christians, whether you like the cut of their kilt or not.
          They are the oldest, largest and most influential sect of Christianity on the planet.

          . Having been exposed to religious methods of persuasion in school at a Benedictine cloister, Hitler recognized religion’s power to keep the people compliant.
          Instead of purging faith like the Communist regimes, he purged atheism:

          "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out".
          The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, Oxford University Press, 1942

          He tolerated to free thinkers and enforced dogmatism – aping the lessons he learned in his religious upbringing.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery.

          ~Hitler April 12, 1922

          April 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Concert in an Egg

          "Hitler was a politician. He was Christian when it suited his interests."

          Which makes you NOT a Christian.

          "He called himself a Christian."

          Irrelevant. That doesn't make you a Christian.

          "Catholics are Christian."

          Sorry, but no. They are outside of orthodoxy.

          "You are incorrect. None of us knew his heart, so I can only go by what he said. He was a Christian whether he liked it or not."

          We don't know his heart? Really?!

          April 28, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

          - Adolf Hitler

          April 28, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • samsstones

          Topher
          Make up your mind. Hitler was baptised as a Catholic and sang in the church choir and may have even got a friendly reach around from a priest. Of course he was not Christian because no catholic is in your fvcked up mind.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Topher, you claim to know the heart of another human being? Would anyone have guessed that a strange little Christian man named Adolf would go on to commit the holocaust?

          April 28, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          As has been clearly demonstrated, he wasn't a Christian. So keep claiming he was if you want to. You're only harming your own credibility.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Topher, just like with your bible, you cherry pick want Hitler said to make it fit your fantasy.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • Akira

          As has been clearly demonstrated, he wasn’t a Christian. So keep claiming he was if you want to. You’re only harming your own credibility.

          Denying that half of the Christians around the globe aren't really Christian rather stretches the credibility factor. And makes one look kind of petty.
          The "he wasn't really a Christian" is the go-to excuse when denying heinous acts by one who professed to be.

          Understandable, but disingenuous all the same.

          April 28, 2014 at 8:20 pm |
        • Akira

          The entire quote that Topher edited:

          The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity. Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society. Thus one understands that the healthy elements of the Roman world were proof against this doctrine. Yet Rome to-day allows itself to reproach Bolshevism with having destroyed the Christian churches! As if Christianity hadn't behaved in the same way towards the pagan temples.

          [Night 19 October 1941; p. 61. Entry in Bormann Vermerke but not in Henry Picker's notebook.]

          ~Hitler's Table Talk

          April 28, 2014 at 8:45 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        I can sit in a garage and blow smoke, but that doesn't make me a car.

        Someone can CLAIM to be a Christian, but if he is not "producing fruits in accordance to repentance," then he is not a Christian. Hitler, by the Biblical definition, was not a Christian.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • Akira

          That would be 99 44/100% of the posters here who claim that, then.

          It is a popular tactic to deny a bad Christian as being no Christian when that person turns out to be less than savory.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
      • Salero21

        Sorry but NOPE he was not!

        He was educated in a catholic school and raised as such. Some historians suggests based on some research, that he may have had some Jewish ancestry. Though the evidence so far is inconclusive. His dealings were with the RCC with the Vatican not with Christianity as a whole. Again you DEMONstrate what I've been saying for quite awhile now. That atheists are indeed Compulsive, Congenital, pathetic and pathological Liars. That's on top of being extreme hypocrites.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • fintronics

          Just like Hitler!

          April 29, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • fintronics

          You are a Christian atheist hater, just like Hitler..

          April 29, 2014 at 4:26 pm |
    • Reality

      from: us.geocities.com

      "The allegation is sometimes made that Hitler was a Catholic – a Christian until the day he died. This claim is based upon the fact that Hitler was born and raised in a Catholic family.

      However, as an adult, Hitler specifically rejected the Catholic Church, as well as Christianity in general. He described himself as "a complete pagan".

      The book Hitler's Secret Conversations: 1941-1944, published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. (1953), contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the t-itle, Hitler's Table Talk: 1941-1944, which ti-tle was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

      Some excerpts:

      All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

      Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

      "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7) "

      10th October, 1941, midday:

      "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)"

      April 28, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
    • Roney

      If fools could read, fools will do well to read up on "National Socialism". Hilter's policies were fuelled and shaped by his political ideologies in national socialism and had nothing to do religion.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:58 pm |
  7. noahsdadtopher

    Can you imagine what it's going to be like when all these people are gone? How long until "there was no holocaust" becomes socially acceptable or even the norm?

    But there is one thing the deaths of these people will leave us. More evidence the Bible is true.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      The bible is false.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
    • igaftr

      in what way does the excistance of people equate into evidence the often wrong bible is true?

      April 28, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Topher, there is no evidence that the bible is true. Name ONE piece of provable evidence. Let's save some souls today.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      We all die.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
      • joey3467

        I could have told you that without ever having to pick up a bible.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        By extension... that means if the bible didn't exist... we would never die (to include the people who have never heard of the bible living in the Amazon)

        April 28, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
      • samsstones

        Topher
        Born Agains/Fundies are....
        Blindly ignorant out of fear.
        Blindly ignorant out of arrogance.
        Blindly declare they are right and all others are wrong by default without providing any reasonable evidence.
        SoTopher another day of receiving the ridicule, mockery and derision you so richly deserve. You must really loath yourself.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
      • igaftr

        That is only evidence that people knew we die, so wrote it into the bible.
        To make the claim that people dying somehow affirms the bible is a sad, dishonest claim. People dying in no way validates the bible. Why do you need to misrepresent things to try to validate that book anyway?...we already know much is flat out false.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
  8. Dyslexic doG

    "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian, I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."

    -Adolph Hitler Munich April 12, 1922

    April 28, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Epic delusional extremist leading to mass fear and hysteria.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
  9. Salero21

    Here is the Quiz again my dear frenemies atheists/evolutionists/idolaters.

    How big is the Evidence of the Absolute, Complete and Total NONSENSE (stupidity) of atheism/evolutionism/idolatry?

    a) As big as planet Earth.
    b) As big as the Sun.
    c) As big as the solar system.
    d) As big as the Galaxy.
    e) As big as the Universe.
    f) All of the above.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      I am going with a write in vote. I say as big as your brain. As your brain is apparently missing, that brings the amount of evidence to zero.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
      • Salero21

        WHAAAT!! More Evidence of what I've been saying all along. If my brain was missing I would be dead which I'm not. Again you're one small piece of Evidence of the Total NONSENSE of atheism.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:23 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Well then, my apologies. You are not dead, just ignorant. Donald Sterling called and wants his weed-trimmer back.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          I think this is just more proof that Salero is an atheist pretending to be upset just to make Christians and the religious look like idiots. Just an FYI Salero, they don't need any help, they do just fine on their own.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • Akira

          Salero plays a role that he made up for that particular user name. He has more than a few.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
    • bostontola

      Psychological projection is the act or technique of defending yourself against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in yourself, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
      • Salero21

        You're very, very nice except when the Absolute, Complete and Total NONSENSE of atheism takes over. That's when the extreme hypocrisy and Pathological lying is made more than Obvious.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • bostontola

          If your definition of nonsense is: taking a position that comports with all available objective evidence, then yes.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
  10. Concert in an Egg

    Since the mid-1990s the central government of Botswana has been trying to move Bushmen out of the Central Kalahari Game Reserve. As of October 2005, the government has resumed its policy of forcing all Bushmen off their lands in the Game Reserve, using armed police and threats of violence or death. Many of the involuntarily displaced Bushmen live in squalid resettlement camps and some have resorted to prostitution and alcoholism, while about 250 others remain or have surreptitiously returned to the Kalahari to resume their independent lifestyle.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
  11. Salero21

    More and more Awesome and Overwhelming Evidence for the Absolute, Complete and Total Stup..... of atheism/evolutionism/idolatry. Even a gorilla can behave better than an atheist.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      seek help.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:12 pm |
      • Salero21

        Sorry but nope! If you're in need of help you can't tell others anything about getting "help", that's a NO NO. Especially when you have made it clear that even a Gorilla can behave better than you.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Because Nazi uniforms were emblazoned with the slogan "Darwin Mit Uns", right?

      April 28, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        HA!

        April 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
      • Concert in an Egg

        Jesus said, "you will know them by their fruits" and not by their belt buckles.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
  12. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    How many times has the human race committed Xenocide? We should be more concerned with that... after all, there are plenty of humans around stinking up the place... but not enough elephants, rhinos, pandas, tigers, etc.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
    • Salero21

      You sure are a piece of Evidence for the Absolute, Complete and Total NONSENSE of atheism/evolutionism/idolatry.

      April 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        Shut up Meg

        April 28, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
  13. Concert in an Egg

    In 2003, Sinafasi Makelo, a representative of Mbuti Pygmies, told the UN's Indigenous People's Forum that during the Congo Civil War, his people were hunted down and eaten as though they were game animals. Both sides of the war regarded them as "subhuman" and some say their flesh can confer magical powers. Makelo asked the UN Security Council to recognise cannibalism as a crime against humanity and an act of genocide.

    April 28, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
  14. Concert in an Egg

    Mass ethnic cleansing of Poles by Nazi Germany started in 1939 as part of the German plan to exterminate Polish people.

    April 28, 2014 at 12:47 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      At least 330,000 Serbs, 30,000 Jews and 30,000 Roma were killed during the NDH (today Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina). The same number of Serbs were forced out of the NDH, from May 1941 to May 1945. The Croatian Fascist regime managed to kill more than 45 000 Serbs, 12 000 or more Jews and approximately 16 000 Roma at the Jasenovac Concentration Camp

      April 28, 2014 at 12:49 pm |
  15. Concert in an Egg

    On 26 May 1830, president Andrew Jackson of the United States signed the Indian Removal Act which resulted in the Trail of Tears.

    April 28, 2014 at 12:22 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Michael Mann, basing his figures on those provided by Justin McCarthy, states that between 1821 and 1922, a large number of Muslims were expelled from south-eastern Europe as Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia gained their independence from the Ottoman Empire. Mann describes these events as "murderous ethnic cleansing on a stupendous scale not previously seen in Europe". These countries sought to expand their territory against the Ottoman Empire, which culminated in the Balkan Wars of the early 20th century.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
  16. Concert in an Egg

    Spain expelled its Jews in 1492, then its Muslims in 1502, forcibly Christianizing the remaining Muslim.

    April 28, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      After the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland and Act of Settlement in 1652, the whole post-war Cromwellian settlement of Ireland has been characterised by historians such as Mark Levene and Alan Axelrod as ethnic cleansing, in that it sought to remove Irish Catholics from the eastern part of the country, but others such as the historical writer Tim Pat Coogan have describe the actions of Cromwell and his subordinates as genocide.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
  17. Rainer Helmut Braendlein

    I think that we focus too much on Adolf Hitler when we consider the Holocaust. The Holocaust was the result of a historical development. Regretably, Hitler appeared at the stage of history exactly when time was ripe for Holocaust. That is almost demonic (certainly Hitler could not control his date of birth).

    Long before Hitler became prominent there were anti-Semitic sentiments in Germany.

    Simple reason: The government of the German Empire (this is not the Third Reich, but existed from 1871 to 1918) had made a mistake. Too many Jews were allowed to immigrate to the German Empire (especially many sav-age ones from the East). The Germans became sick of them. Germans got the impression that they got outsmart by the Jews (I cannot decide if this was a matter of fact, or if it was assumption). Furthermore there was constant contention between the old German establishment and the social democrats. Some leaders of the social democrats were Jews (these leaders were known for godless lifestyle).

    There is a rumor (stab-in-the-back legend) that Germany lost WWI because of a general strike during the war caused by the social democrats (as far as I know it was proved that this was wrong, and that Germany had lost the war anyway). However, Hitler was a great advocate of the stab-in-the-back legend. And maybe it was a reason for his hatred against the Jews.

    Two old German generals could not settle for Germany's defeat of WWI: Hindenburg and Ludendorff (Ludendorff was member of an anti-Christian cult which still exists today: Verein für Gotteserkenntnis). There is a rumor that these two men made-up the stab-in-the-back legend in order to garner the Germans for another war.

    They looked for a loudmouth which was able to pronounce their satanic message. Strangly enough at the time when they conducted a very extensive search Hitler was available.

    There is a rumor that Hitler was member of an anti-Semitc cult, and that that led him to his hatred against the Jews (furthermore the operas of Richard Wagner). I could imagine that this all is a nonsense. Hitler was a penniless village idiot when he came to Munich. At first he struggled to survive in Munich. Certainly, he got very delighted when the Reichswehr (German military) gave him a very good job according to his gift: Delivering speeches.

    My post includes many assumptions. I am not keen on to pore over books, in oder to make sure that my post includes no mistakes. Yet, I am sure the core point of my statement is correct: The Holocaust was the result of a historical development. Hitler was also responsible, but without the given historical situation he had never managed to cause the Holocaust.

    Yet before Hitler seized rule the Germans did not like the Jews, but that was probably no anti-Semitism. There were simply too many Jews in Germany. Who can blame a people for getting angry when it gets the impession that it is infiltrated by another people. The old German government had made a great mistake.

    April 28, 2014 at 11:45 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I think you're forgetting the reverence a huge number of Germans had for Martin Luther and the influence his anti-semitism had on the Deutsche psyche.

      April 28, 2014 at 11:53 am |
      • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

        Luther was not anti-Semitic. He only refused Jewry or the Jewish doctrine. Luther criticized the Jews because they were not ready to accept Jesus from Nazareth as their Messiah. Yet St. Paul, the Apostle of the Lord, criticized the Jews for refusing the gospel of Jesus.

        Anti-Semitism means when one hates a Jews simply because he is a descendant of Jakob, the patriarch of Israel.

        Whene Hitler used religious arguments, then they had nothing to do with the reasoning of Luther or St. Paul, but were completely moronic. Hitler was no Christian, and certainly he had no profound understanding of the doctrine. Certainly he did not understand Luther and St. Paul.

        April 28, 2014 at 12:04 pm |
        • observer

          Rainer Helmut Braendlein,

          It's a riot to hear you discuss BIGOTRY. It's like listening to the same speech from Archie Bunker, the comedy show bigot.

          April 28, 2014 at 12:19 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them."

          - Martin Luther, "On The Jews and Their Lies"

          So he wasn't anti-semitic?

          April 28, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "Regretably, Hitler appeared at the stage of history exactly when time was ripe for Holocaust."

          So if not Hitler than some other nut would have done it, right?

          This is like saying Martin Luther King Jr was just born at the right time when there was an upswell of the civil rights movement. The reallity is that he stood up and spoke and provided a voice for his cause and gave the cause direction and without him it may have taken decades longer to make the same progress. Same goes for Hitler being an advocate for hate and discrimination, he was the voice of anti-semitism and used religion as a wedge to divide the ones he deemed not fit for survival from those he was praising for their superiority, ingenuity and white clean skin. Without Hitler it is true, anti-semitism would still exist, it is just he gave it a vehicle to do huge amounts of human damage that few others would have been able to do.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • Vic

          Regarding Martin Luther, just keep in mind that no human, regardless of level of knowledge and/or wisdom, knew/knows it all.

          Martin Luther was a great Reformer that discerned the truth about Christianity, hence the Reformation of the Christian Church. However, as a born again Christian Protestant, I don't agree with Martin Luther's views regarding the Jews and the peasants. He was caught up in an adverse situation at the time as a Reformer from all directions including the Jews, especially that his "Reform" involved that "Salvation is by Grace through Faith ALONE in Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior AND APART from the Law." That put him in a direct collision course with the Roman Catholic Church as well as the Jews for they both incorporate the Mosaic Law.

          So, what do we do?! I elect adopting Martin Luther's Reformation of the Christian Church and rejecting his views on the Jews. Simple as that.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Vic
          Of course everyone is free to pick and choose whatever bits they want from theologians of old.
          Rainer's assertion that Luther was not an anti-semite is just plain wrong, however.
          It would be like saying that Calvin wasn't a misogynist, Saint Augustine was a pacifist or that Joseph Smith wasn't racist.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        "First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them." (Martin Luther)

        Krystallnacht.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          I don't recall ever seeing an association between Martin Luther and the Kristallnacht before.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "Mein Kampf" is heavily influence by "On The Jews and Their Lies".
          In his last years, Luther got incredibly bitter regarding his inability to convert the Jewish people to Christianity.
          He called for their homes and synagogues to be razed and for all Jewish people to be barred from teachings positions and politics – which is precisely what the Third Reich did.
          Of course, Luther didn't call for genocide – that was all Hitler....

          April 28, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          Noted... thank you sir

          April 28, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
    • Rainer Helmut Braendlein

      Good book: "Where ghosts walked: Munich's road to the Third Reich" by David Clay Large.

      April 28, 2014 at 11:54 am |
    • bostontola

      Rainer,
      That is a poor and simplistic analysis of Hitler's scourge. Of course Hitler didn't invent antisemitism. It had been around in Europe for centuries. It's existence shines a light on what made Hitler the infamous character he was, no one else designed a cool, systematic, inhuman approach to mass murder. The others were satisfied with kicking the Jews out, seizing their property, and the occasional killing. Hitler leveraged the general antisemitism in Europe along with the Germans' feeling of shame from WWI to perpetrate that industrial scale murder.

      Perhaps most shocking, was how easy it was to get the German population to abandon their Christian morality and instead of turning the other cheek, they turned away their eyes. That is your legacy, to simplify it the way you did is disgusting.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
      • igaftr

        boston
        "Perhaps most shocking, was how easy it was to get the German population to abandon their Christian morality and instead of turning the other cheek, they turned away their eyes"

        My grandmother would tear you apart for your false idea of what happened.

        People who resisted...disappeared. People who spoke out, disappeared.
        People who were thought to have influence disappeared.

        When you cannot trust anyone, and you speak out you will vanish, what else are you to do. It was not "easy" and the people did not look the other way...they were blind to most of what was going on for the most part, and ashamed if they found the truth. The death camps were not common knowledge in the beginning. The disappearances were.

        My grandmother saw what was going on, and got out of Germany after Krystalnacht, where the catholic church remained silent as jews were openly rounded up.

        You could learn a lot from her....she was there.

        April 28, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
        • bostontola

          Plenty stayed.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
        • igaftr

          yes, many stayed...most could not afford to leave, many simply had no idea what was going on, and constant misinformation and propaganda , along with fear mongering to control the population, shaped the will of the people.

          People tend to believe what they are told. Just look at all the people who believe the bible, even though it is obviously flawed throughout.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:09 pm |
        • bostontola

          I'm sure your grandmother and some others were part of a small minority that didn't fall for Hitler's propaganda machine. Historians are quite certain that the vast majority did fall for Hitler. The reasons are well doc.umented. The vast majority supported Hitler willingly and were Christian.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          My great-grandfather (WW1 Vet) resisted the Nazis and they hauled him away and was never seen again... when they came for my grandfather to conscript him into the German army... he did his duty and served. There was little choice after seeing what happened to his father. Also, when you're 10 years old... don't call your mother a Nazi, that wooden spoon on my ass left a lasting impression.

          April 28, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
  18. Alias

    I, for one, am getting tired of hearing about the Holocaust. It was bad, mkay?
    The slavery that was going on all over the world 500 years ago was bad, mkay?
    Killing the native americans and stealing their land was bad, mkay?
    Stalin did bas things too, mkay?
    The Saint Bartholomew’s Day Massacre was bad, mkay?
    Things that happened at Yangzhou were bad too, mkay?
    The Massacres of Poles in Volhynia shouldn't be overlooked either, mkay?
    The Sabra and Shatila Massacre was bad, mkay?
    The way the Palistinians are being treated by the Israilies is bad, mkay?
    The 2,000,000 people who diesd in the wars after 9/11 – bad too, mkay?

    April 28, 2014 at 10:36 am |
    • tallulah131

      To paraphrase George Santayana, those who will not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. I would personally rather remember history than ignore it. Nothing good comes from denial.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
  19. Doc Vestibule

    PRE-EMPTIVE POST
    It doesn't matter whether Hitler was Christian

    We can argue all day as to whether or not the Furhrer was actually Christian.
    What matters is that he leveraged Christianity as one of his tools of statecraft.
    He quoted scripture to justify anti-semitism, eliminated atheism from the 3rd Reich, made shows of announcing his ties with the Vatican, and publicly professed his own Christianity over and over again.

    It is perhaps the most egregious example of how any proposition that relies on faith can and will be twisted by unscrupulous individuals for their own gain.
    Its just far too easy to manipulate those who are willing to suspend critical thinking and accept something without evidence.

    April 28, 2014 at 10:26 am |
    • Russ

      @ Doc:
      1) it DOES matter to Christians *IF* Hitler's policies are regarded as appropriately practicing the Christian faith.

      2) you said: "any proposition that relies on faith can and will be twisted..."
      would you include naturalism as a 'faith' that is equally susceptible to such abuses?

      "Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as science “without any presuppositions”…a philosophy, a “faith,” must always be there first of all, so that science can acquire from it a direction, a meaning, a limit, a method, a right to exist…It is still a metaphysical faith that underlies our faith in science."
      -Nietzsche

      April 28, 2014 at 11:53 am |
      • SeaVik

        While I would object to calling that "faith", it is true that STRICTLY speaking, we don't know much of anything with 100% certainty. We don't know if our world actually exists or if we are imagining it (or if it's being projected into our brains like in the Matrix). I think this world is real even though strictly speaking, I don't know it is. That's not based on faith, it's based on what seems to be the most likely reality to me given what I observe.

        April 28, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • Russ

          @ SeaVik:
          1) why object to the term "faith" here? you basically concede the very definition ("firm belief in something for which there is no proof"). your objection appears to be to the connotation than the literal meaning – which supports the heart of Nietzsche's point.

          2) I'm not appealing to solipsism or the like.
          *on its OWN terms,* naturalism is not only faith-based, but also self-refuting.

          consider the primary litmus test of naturalism: "only what is empirically verifiable is true."
          but *that very statement* FAILS its own criterion. it is not an empirically verifiable claim.
          it's self-refuting.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Faith is believing something for which there is no EVIDENCE, not for which there is no proof. Faith is at a minimum a dumb thing to have and worst case, an excuse to be an incredibly terrible person. I don't justify any of my beliefs using faith and don't think any intelligent person should.

          April 28, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
        • Russ

          @ SeaVik: read the quote from Nietzsche above again.

          note well: "it is still a metaphysical FAITH that underlies our FAITH in science."

          April 28, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Um, yes, I did read it well the first time and have explained why I object to the use of the word, "faith", as it doesn't apply in my opinion. That's not faith, it's a conclusion based on our best guess given the evidence we have. Faith is a conclusion without evidence or even despite evidence which contradicts your conclusion.

          April 29, 2014 at 8:36 am |
        • Russ

          @ SeaVik: do you understand the term 'presupposition'? it is BY DEFINITION "without evidence" – and *everyone* has them.

          again, you seem to have an objection to the connotations of the term 'faith' but substantively are doing the same thing – whether you want to call it that or not.

          April 29, 2014 at 6:05 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The difference between naturalism and theology is that religion requires faith.
      There are always ineffable, irrational, supernatural aspects to religion that demand blind acceptance.
      Blind, unquestioning faith in scientific authority can most certainly be used to great harm – as in the Nazi (and American) practice of Eugenics during the early 20th century.
      However, naturalism and the scientific method are not predicated on faith – they are based on testable, repeatable, demonstrable theories and those who are interested can draw their own conclusions by performing experiments themselves.

      A proper hypothesis cannot invoke the supernatural whereas theology is based on it.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Doc:
      1) Nietzsche is arguing the exact opposite – that naturalism *necessarily* begins / is founded upon such faith. in short, the central given of naturalism (namely, that there is nothing but what is empirically verifiable) is equally a faith-based system.

      what do you do with his critique of naturalism?

      2) you said: "A proper hypothesis cannot invoke the supernatural whereas theology is based on it."

      Nietzsche is explicitly claiming that the *presupposition* (the ultimate hypothesis, so to speak) of naturalism is an equivalent leap of faith – everything is "based on it," as you said. in other words, your critique equally defeats naturalism because it is ENTIRELY dependent on a faith-based given that is in NO WAY "testable, repeatable, demonstrable."

      April 28, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        The naturalist perspective is to study and measure that which can actually be studied and measured.
        It does not address the supernatural becuase such things can neither be proven nor disproven. The Divine is not demonstrable, repeatable or testable nor can it be used to make accurate predictions of natural phenomena.

        Gods are explanation for the reasons behind the Universe's existence – something that has no bearing on how it actually operates. We can only describe it and chronicle its workings.

        April 28, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
        • Russ

          @ Doc:
          1) you said:
          "The naturalist perspective is to study and measure that which can actually be studied and measured. It does not address the supernatural becuase such things can neither be proven nor disproven."

          Again, read Nietzsche's quote. Read Thomas Nagel. Read the many critiques of Hawking's "Grand Design."
          The problem here for naturalism is the refusal to admit that it BEGINS with a presupposition which – by definition – cannot be proven or disproven. that is FAITH-based.

          2) you said: "The Divine is not demonstrable, repeatable or testable nor can it be used to make accurate predictions of natural phenomena."

          a) to which god/s are you referring? there are a LOT of different religions to discuss. i think you are aware that I'm a Christian.

          b) as a Christian, note well: the central claim of our faith IS testable: namely, that God entered time & space. Christianity claims to be NEWS, not merely ethical advice.

          3) you said: "Gods are explanation for the reasons behind the Universe's existence – something that has no bearing on how it actually operates. We can only describe it and chronicle its workings."

          a) even if merely from a causal perspective, is there *anything else* in existence whose foundation does not utterly affect the walls, roof & everything else built upon it?

          b) it sounds like you are advancing a 'god of the gaps' scenario. note well: naturalism assumes a closed system (there is nothing transcendent), in which the divine would be *a part of* the system (and thereby testable, etc.)

          i) again, that assumption itself (that the system is closed) is itself untestable.
          ii) naturalism has NO way to explain the existence of the system (ontologically).

          consider the irony, naturalism would use science to defend its claim that there is nothing else, when existence itself (the BASIS of all science) may be the greatest argument *against* naturalism. naturalism simply attempts to side-step that problem because its presupposition states otherwise – or simply put: naturalism asks you to "take it on faith."

          it's circular! (which is the VERY critique naturalists are levying against the religious.) and that's why i gave you Nietzsche – so you'd know it was not just the religious pointing out this enormous, fundamental problem for naturalism.

          SUM: science isn't a problem for religion. putting ultimate faith in science (i.e., naturalism) is.

          April 28, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
        • ssq41

          @Russ

          You claim: "b) as a Christian, note well: the central claim of our faith IS testable: namely, that God entered time & space. Christianity claims to be NEWS, not merely ethical advice."

          Please, expand on how God entering space and time IS testable. Please also provide your definition of the "Scientific Method" that supports this (in order to determine if your definition is what is accepted in the scientific community).

          In your expansion on "God entering space and time," would you be so kind to provide your precise examples of these events?

          Thank you.

          April 28, 2014 at 10:22 pm |
        • Russ

          @ ssq41: what criteria do you have for believing ANY historical event?
          it is certainly *testable* – as you seek to understand the available evidence of any historical claim.
          THAT is the aim of biblical scholarship – especially as it studies the claims (however extraordinary) of the biblical account. obviously, God coming *in person* would be the MOST extraordinary historical claim one could make.

          two recent examples as consideration of the available historical evidences for these claims:
          "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses" by Richard Bauckham
          "The Resurrection of the Son of God" by NT Wright

          April 29, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
  20. Vic

    Constantly reminding the world of the Holocaust is one of the least and most intelligent things the Jewish communities can ever do; otherwise, there is no guarantee it couldn't happen again.

    The Holocaust was one of the extremist examples of 'Disregard to Human Life' in recent history. The Holocaust was a 'Crime against Humanity!' The Holocaust was a complete 'Abomination to the "Sanctity of Life."'

    April 28, 2014 at 10:12 am |
    • tallulah131

      Can't argue that the Holocaust proves that humans are capable of monstrous atrocities. But history is full of evidence that humans are capable of monstrous atrocities.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Edward I of England expelled all Jews living in England in 1290. Hundreds of Jewish elders were executed.

      April 28, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
      • Vic

        So many hierarchies took turns on the Jews throughout history.

        In 1492, out of 'Religious Tyranny,' Spain expelled the Jews from Spain during the 'Spanish Inquisition.' Jews who did not leave and did not convert to Cathalocism were killed. The same thing was done by the Muslims before that.

        The Holocaust is just recent history.

        April 28, 2014 at 12:35 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Isn't it terribly ironic that shortly after the coming of "The Messiah", the Jews went into exile to begin a 1900 year long night of persecution, — largely at the hands of Jesus' followers.

          April 28, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.