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Study: Young Latinos losing faith
Jose Luis Sedano prays during Mass at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles last March.
May 7th, 2014
11:58 AM ET

Study: Young Latinos losing faith

By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Editor

[twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN']

(CNN) - Young Latinos are leaving the Catholic Church in droves, according to a new study, with many drifting into the country's fastest-growing religious movement: the nones.

Nearly a third of Latino adults under 30 don't belong to a faith group, according to a large survey released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center.  That's a leap of 17 percentage points in just the last three years.

While the demise of organized religion, specifically Catholicism, is most dramatic among young Latinos, the overall shifts are broad-based, according to Pew, affecting men and women; foreign-born and U.S. natives; college graduates and those with less formal education.

The trends highlighted by Pew's Latino survey also mirror large-scale shifts in the American population as whole.

According to other studies conducted by Pew in recent years, nearly a third of all millennials - Americans between the ages of 18-33 - are religiously unaffiliated, a dramatic and ongoing change from previous generations.

“One of the most striking recent trends in the American religious landscape has been the growing share of the unaffiliated, and this study allows us to see where Latinos fit into that story,” said Cary Funk, a senior researcher at the Pew Research Center and one of the co-authors of the study.

“At the same time, understanding religious change among Latinos is important for understanding how this growing group may be reshaping the American religious landscape more broadly.”

The overall breakdown of the nation's estimated 35.4 million Latinos is: 55% Catholic, 22% Protestant and 18% unaffiliated.

That's bad news for the Catholic Church, which has seen a 12 percentage-point drop in Hispanic members since 2010, with most of the losses coming from former Catholics under 50.

As recently as years ago, two-thirds of Latinos were Catholic; now nearly one in four Hispanic adults is a former Catholic, according to Pew.

The most common reasons for leaving the faith?

More than half (55%) say they just "drifted away" from organized religion. A similar number (52%), say they no longer believed in the teachings of their childhood religion.

A smaller number of Latinos (4 percentage points) have left Catholicism to become evangelical Protestants, according to Pew.

"Outreach to the Hispanic community is a top priority for the Catholic Church as the huge growth in the Hispanic community offers a challenge to keep up with the pastoral needs," said Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

"The Hispanic community, however, is not immune from the nation’s growing secularism, which concerns all religions, as church attendance seems less important to people," Walsh continued, "and people move from religion to religion and declare themselves spiritual rather than religiously affiliated."

The Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, head of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Council, said he was surprised by the sharp rise in Latino "nones."

“They are saying: established religions of both denominations are not attracting me. And I think it’s a wake-up call for Catholics and evangelicals to allocate all our resources on the next generation.”

The survey was conducted in English and Spanish between May 24-July 28, 2013, among a sample of 5,103 Hispanic adults living in the United States, according to Pew.

The margin of error for results based on all respondents is plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.

CNN's Gustavo Valdes contributed to this report.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • Catholic Church • Christianity • evangelicals • Faith • Latino issues • Lost faith • Nones • Polls • Protestant • Trends

soundoff (538 Responses)
  1. Concert in an Egg

    Father in Heaven, we thank you for the four family members' bodies that were found after an intentionally set fire damaged a Florida home this morning. We are humbled that you would share your apparent disdain for human life with each and every one of your children here on earth. In faith. Amen.

    May 8, 2014 at 1:18 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      And you don't hate God?

      May 8, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
      • Concert in an Egg

        You know I don't hate gods T.

        May 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
      • gulliblenomore

        Topher....you can't hate something that is not real

        May 8, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Then why make posts like the one above?

          May 8, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Topher....oh, I get it now. You are unfamiliar with sarcasm. Look that up, then you'll understand.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Thank you.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Topher, I am pointing out the absurdity of believing in gods. You know that.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Then you also go to sites for people who believe in fairies, leprechauns, Egyptian gods, blue moons, yellow stars and purple horseshoes ... write "letters" to those things and mock them. I'm betting not.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Topher...I don't, because those people are just crazy. You people here are just deluded! Some of you are nuts, but I stay clear of them

          May 8, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          People who believe in fairies, leprechauns, Egyptian gods, blue moons, yellow stars and purple horseshoes don't form influential political lobbies to try and legislate their beliefs into secular law.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Doc

          Ah, so your issue is that you'd like to deny me a vote.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Topher...if you are voting to enact legislation that would force me to adhere to your nutty mythological beliefs....absolutely!

          May 8, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • samsstones

          Topher
          Doc did not say that, why put words in his mouth?

          May 8, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Topher
          Have you ever heard of a Fairy Ring?
          Under particular conditions, certain species of mushroom form perfect circles up to 30 feet around.
          We understand now that this is a natural phenomenon resulting form the way in which fungal spores distribute themselves, but prior to scientific understanding of fungal reproduction, various cultures concocted supernatural explanations.
          Germanic people blamed witches. The Dutch said they were where the Devil set his milk churn.
          The Celts said they were the result of fairies dancing and quite a number of people claimed to have joined them in their revelry!

          Now, imagine if some Welshmen went before their local school board and demanded that biology text books include the Fairy Design Theory. After all, kids should be exposed to all competing theories. Teach the controversy!

          This is what Creationists do in the United States. The only difference between them and the Fairyists is that there aren't enough believers in fairies to exert any kind of pressure on politicians, teachers, textbook manufacturers etc.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          @Doc and T

          Just to point out though Doc, IF the Fairyists had lived under the same conditions as we do here in the U.S., they would have had a lobby.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:13 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "Then why make posts like the one above?"

          Ridicule

          noun
          1. speech or action intended to cause contemptuous laughter at a person or thing; derision.

          verb (used with object), rid·i·culed, rid·i·cul·ing.

          2. to deride; make fun of.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          gulliblenomore

          "Topher...if you are voting to enact legislation that would force me to adhere to your nutty mythological beliefs....absolutely!"

          I have no interest in enacting laws that would require you to be a "Christian."

          May 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Doc Vestibule

          "Have you ever heard of a Fairy Ring?"

          Yes. In fact, there's one down the street from me. And yes, I understand how they come about. It's still pretty cool, though.

          "This is what Creationists do in the United States."

          I'm sure there are some Creationists that want this. But it's mostly people in the ID Movement, but they aren't Christians. I personally am not interested in having Creation taught in schools.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Topher
          The Intelligent Design movement is comprised exclusively of fundamentalist Christians.
          That you don't include their tartans in you book of clans is irrelevant.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Doc Vestibule
          "
          The Intelligent Design movement is comprised exclusively of fundamentalist Christians."

          Whoa. No, it's not. I'm not saying there aren't some Christians in there, but just because some people believe in a creator god doesn't mean it's the Christian God. The ID Movement does not hold to the Biblical model of Creation. Thus, not Christian.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
        • Apollo to Zeus

          The ID Movement does not hold to the Biblical model of Creation.

          Do you really believe that toph? Honest answer please.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
        • samsstones

          Topher
          C'mon coward answer the question, why can you interfere with other peoples children but you only want your fellow fundies to influence yours? BTW ridicule, mockery and derision is piled on you according to the past President of the USA's advice, Thomas Jefferson.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:44 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "you'd like to deny me a vote."
          -----------–
          Everyone should be able to vote. There are some things that should not come to a vote – those things that disrespect the rights of others.

          James Madison wrote this in his 'remonstrance':

          We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the insti.tution of Civil Society* and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority.

          * by "Civil Society" Madison means legislative governance

          Do not confuse majority rule with a democratic republic that respects the inalienable rights of all it's citizens.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Topher
          The ID movement is led by the Discovery Inst/itute.
          Their primary goal is to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."
          The US judicial system determined that intelligent design was merely a redressing of creationism.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Apollo to Zeus

          "Do you really believe that toph? Honest answer please."

          Yes. Look it up if you don't believe me.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          "The ID movement does not speak to the optimality of design because it does not attempt to explain all designs. Remember, only “certain features” are designed, and evolutionary processes are not ruled out. The ID movement also claims not to be religiously motivated. It focuses not on the whom but on the what."

          And then later in the same article ...

          "However, the central problem with the ID movement is a divorce of the Creator from creation. The Creator and His creation cannot be separated; they reflect on each other. All other problems within the movement stem from this one. "

          And ...

          "The ID movement’s belief in evolution also allows them to distance themselves from the problem of evil in the natural world. Examples of this include pathogenic microbes, carnivorous animals, disease, and death."

          As you can see ... not Biblical.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:52 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "As you can see ... not Biblical."

          Nevertheless, the ID movement is comprised of fundamentalist Christians and exists for fundamentalist Christians.

          That fundamentalist Christians disagree over what is Biblical is a hallmark of fundamentalism.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Nevertheless, the ID movement is comprised of fundamentalist Christians and exists for fundamentalist Christians."

          Again, are there Christians in it? Likely. But not fundamentalists. And thus it's NOT for fundamentalist Christians. As a fundamentalist myself, I can tell you if there's even a whiff of something not Biblical in it, we're against it.

          "That fundamentalist Christians disagree over what is Biblical is a hallmark of fundamentalism."

          Um, no. Do you even understand what a fundamentalist is?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:07 pm |
        • bostontola

          "The ID movement’s belief in evolution also allows them to distance themselves from the problem of evil in the natural world. Examples of this include pathogenic microbes, carnivorous animals, disease, and death."

          Do you consider pathogenic microbes, carnivorous animals, disease, and death to be evil?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:07 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          bostontola

          "Do you consider pathogenic microbes, carnivorous animals, disease, and death to be evil?"

          I would say they are all a result of the original sin and thus not part of the original creation — which was good. So those things came about as a result of evil.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Topher
          The Discovery Insti/tute (who also run "Answers In Genesis", btw) have carefully crafted their public image. They attempt to distance themselves from their old Biblical Literalist rhetoric.
          But make no mistake – their goals are still the same.

          In its early days, these people tried to push a Creationist book originally called "Unlocking the secrets: The Mystery of Life's Origin", later re-branded "Biology and Creation".
          They defined "creationism":
          "Creation means that the various forms of life began abruptly through the agency of an intelligent creator with their distinctive features already intact. Fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, and wings, etc."
          By 1987, the book had again been renamed "Of Pandas and People". Because of a court case in Louisiana that expressly forbid Biblical Creationism being taught in school science classes, the wording changed and the authors removed references to catastrophism, a world-wide flood, a recent inception of the earth or life, the concept of kinds, or any concepts from Genesis.

          In subsequent publications, the word "creationism" was replaced by "intelligent design" and "creationist" replaced by "intelligent design proponent", while "creator" was replaced by "agency" or "designer".

          They're playing a semantic game, but they are still fundamentalist Christians.
          They just realize that they have to obfuscate their religious leanings if they have any hope of wedging themselves into Science curriculum.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:19 pm |
        • bostontola

          Topher,
          That's one way to look at it.

          Predators (carnivorous, microbes, etc.) balance prey. Without them, populations would rail and deplete all the earths resources quickly. They are good if you believe in the science of ecology. When predators are taken out of an ecosystem, the prey species get messed up in many ways.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Doc Vestibule

          "The Discovery Insti/tute (who also run "Answers In Genesis", btw)"

          No, they don't.

          "have carefully crafted their public image. They attempt to distance themselves from their old Biblical Literalist rhetoric.
          But make no mistake – their goals are still the same."

          OK. So if they've distanced themselves " themselves from their old Biblical Literalist rhetoric" ... this just goes to my point. It's NOT Biblical.

          "In subsequent publications, the word "creationism" was replaced by "intelligent design" and "creationist" replaced by "intelligent design proponent", while "creator" was replaced by "agency" or "designer"."

          Uh huh. So they're moving further and further away from the Bible.

          "They're playing a semantic game, but they are still fundamentalist Christians."

          No. They are moving away from the Bible and hold to anti-Biblical stances. That's NOT Christian and it's certainly not fundamentalist Christian. If they were fundamental, they'd be moving CLOSER to the Bible.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          bostontola

          "That's one way to look at it. ..."

          No problem with anything you said here.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • Madtown

          they'd be moving CLOSER to the Bible
          ---–
          Which of the many versions?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Um, no. Do you even understand what a fundamentalist is?
          ----------------

          Yes. Are there Sunni, Shia and Wahabi fundamentalists? Do they all agree?

          The same is true for Christian fundamentalists.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:42 pm |
        • bostontola

          Topher,
          If Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the apple, would any animals have procreated?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
        • igaftr

          Topher
          You clearly do not get it. The original framework of the creationist hypothesis is the bible. Since they have taken theri case into courts, it was obvious they could not push their belief while still attached to the religious components. So they have been cleaning up the wording to hide the FACT that the entire hypothesis was based on the bible.

          The bible IS the framework of creationism. The two will never be seperate.
          The wording is just the creationists attempt to make their baseless hypothesis mainstream and scientific sounding, but make no mistake, there is NO science behind creationism....none.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:46 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          bostontola

          "If Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the apple, would any animals have procreated?"

          Is there a reason I shouldn't think that would be the case?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Topher
          Hey! You're correct on teh split between Ken Ham and the DI people.
          The Discovery folk used to support AIG monetarily, but Mr. Ham is basically calling them apostates these days.
          That's some wacky stuff.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          igaftr

          "The original framework of the creationist hypothesis is the bible."

          Maybe. But I think you are importing your own beliefs into that. Pretty much every religion believes their god was the creator. It's not just a Christian thing.

          "Since they have taken theri case into courts, it was obvious they could not push their belief while still attached to the religious components. So they have been cleaning up the wording to hide the FACT that the entire hypothesis was based on the bible."

          If they are hiding the fact they are Christian they are sinning. And again, the problem is that while the ID Movement believe in an intelligent designer, it isn't necessarily the Christian one.

          "The bible IS the framework of creationism. The two will never be seperate."

          Not necessarily.

          "The wording is just the creationists attempt to make their baseless hypothesis mainstream and scientific sounding, but make no mistake, there is NO science behind creationism....none."

          False.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm |
        • samsstones

          Topher
          Blindly ignorant out of fear.
          Blindly ignorant out of sheer arrogance.
          Blindly declare that you are right and all others are wrong by default even though you have no evidence or proof to back up your a$$ertions.
          You have cowardly avoided answering the question on why you can influence other peoples children but only want your fellow fundies to influence yours. You deserve all the ridicule you get.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
        • bostontola

          Topher,
          Why would animals need to procreate if there is no death?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:53 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Doc Vestibule

          "The Discovery folk used to support AIG monetarily, but Mr. Ham is basically calling them apostates these days."

          To be honest, I have no idea who the Discovery Insti.tute is. But if they are moving away from the Bible, as some of you have pointed out, then I'm not surprised Ken Ham calls them apostates.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:54 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          bostontola

          "Why would animals need to procreate if there is no death?"

          Possibly to "fill the Earth" like Adam and Eve were to do.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
        • bostontola

          Topher,
          So God would come in at some point to halt procreation?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:57 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          bostontola

          "So God would come in at some point to halt procreation?"

          No idea. Remember, before sin, Creation was "good." But it's kind of a straw man because sin happened, likely soon after the Creation week. But we just don't know.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
        • samsstones

          Topher
          Too bad there was not an eleventh commandment, "Thou shall not be a coward." and maybe, just maybe, you would be compelled by the lord almighty to answer questions you will not answer now.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Topher
          It seems that before Ken Ham started his own project over there at AIG, he worked for the Insti/tute for Creation Research, which basically does the same thing as the Discovery Insti/tute – namely, try to create a "sciencey" veneer for Young Earth Creationism.
          It seems that Ham realized the futility of such an endeavour and instead of trying to reconcile YEC tenets with science, he began a campaign to present the scientific community as a cabal of elitist, politically motivated secularists conspiring with the assistance of Satan to undermine the traditional values of American Christians.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
        • redzoa

          What I'm reading in the distinction between ID and literal creationism is a "No True Scotsman" fallacy, i.e. who is and isn't a "true" bible-believing Christian.

          The appeal of invoking the "fall" to account for any and all manner of perceived ills is that, like any other magical explanation, it can allegedly explain any and every possible observation; however, such undiscriminating, untestable, and unfalsifiable explanations effectively explain nothing.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Just because you are a creationist doesn't make you a Christian. Jews are creationists. Muslims are creationists, etc., etc.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:34 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Actually Topher, only lunatics are creationists.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
        • Alias

          More good twisting of context topher.
          Does eveyone who supports our republic immediately become a republican?

          May 8, 2014 at 4:57 pm |
        • redzoa

          "Just because you are a creationist doesn't make you a Christian. Jews are creationists. Muslims are creationists, etc., etc."

          Well, obviously. However, your distinction is between those ID proponents who self-profess as Christians, i.e. Johnson, Minnich, Behe, Meyer, Demski, etc, and those who sufficiently fall within your subjective criteria and are therefore worthy of being called Christian. Similarly, you rely on subjective criteria in distinguishing between those who do and do not sufficiently reflect a Bible-based view of the process of creation. Creationists fall along a spectrum from six-day literalists to theistic evolutionists. Even within the stricter literal creationists, there are disagreements with respect to proper interpretation, e.g. gap theorists and day-age creationists.

          There is some utility in drawing distinctions, no doubt, but your distinctions are tinged with disdain for fellow Christians who don't subscribe to your particular interpretation. Don't get me wrong, I understand that like Sunni and Shia, you feel you must defend your subjective understanding of the one true faith. But in making these subjective distinctions, you are engaging a "No True Scotsman" fallacy when you declare who is and isn't a true Christian and who does and does not rely upon the bible for their particular creationist views.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:57 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Alias

          "Does eveyone who supports our republic immediately become a republican?"

          I think I'm missing your point.

          May 8, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Jews are creationists. Muslims are creationists, etc., etc.
          ---------------
          Factually, they are not.

          American Muslims are twice as likely to believe in evolution as American Evangelical Protestants. 77% of American Jews believe evolution is the best explanation for the origins of human life on earth.

          Pew Forum 2009

          % who agree that evolution is the best explanation for the origins of human life on earth

          Total US population .......... 48%

          Buddhist .............................. 81%
          Hindu ................................... 80%
          Jewish ................................. 77%
          Unaffiliated ......................... 72%
          Catholic ............................... 58%
          Orthodox .............................. 54%
          Mainline Protestant ........... 51%
          Muslim ................................. 45%
          Historically black ................ 38%
          Evangelical Protestant ...... 24%
          Mormon ................................ 22%
          Jehovah’s Witness ............ 08%

          May 8, 2014 at 5:08 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          redzoa

          "There is some utility in drawing distinctions, no doubt, but your distinctions are tinged with disdain for fellow Christians who don't subscribe to your particular interpretation."

          No. Your belief in evolution or just how the Creation happened doesn't affect your salvation. It's a minor issue and thus they and I can be brothers in Christ. But I do think those people are wrong and have no problem discussing that with them. Some of them, without realizing it, are calling God a liar. And that's a very dangerous position to be in.

          "But in making these subjective distinctions, you are engaging a "No True Scotsman" fallacy when you declare who is and isn't a true Christian and who does and does not rely upon the bible for their particular creationist views."

          Not at all. These are issue that will either include you or leave you out of orthodoxy. No True Scotsman doesn't work here (as is usually the case when you guys try to use it in religious context.) Saying "No true Scotsman would ever murder someone" would be a false analogy because being a murderer or not has no relationship to whether you're a Scotsman. However, Jesus Christ is essential to whether you're a Christian or not.

          As I said, there are some Christians in the ID Movement, so I'm not sure what your point was to listing those names. The problem is, if you were to actually read up on it, is that they don't hold specifically to the Christian stance. And those people certainly wouldn't be fundamentalist Christians if they are covering up their faith or if they are moving away from the Bible. Are there liberal Christians? Absolutely. But you can't be a liberal, fundamentalist Christian. That would be contradictory.

          May 8, 2014 at 5:19 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Those are fair statistics, but that doesn't mean their religion holds to that. Those numbers represent what individuals within a religion believe. Their "orthodoxy," as it were, would hold to creationism.

          May 8, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Their "orthodoxy," as it were, would hold to creationism."

          Not necessarily. Jews accept that the Torah needs to be interpreted, particularly of course reform Jews. It doesn't have to be literal which is what you are conflating with "orthodox".

          May 8, 2014 at 5:28 pm |
        • Science Works

          Hey topher

          Time for a refresher course on the ID believers eh .
          By the way back in 1992 they were the Genesis Insti-tute – and the doc-ument was suppose to be top secret.

          http://ncse.com/blog-tags/intelligent-design-creationism

          May 8, 2014 at 7:09 pm |
        • redzoa

          @Topher – Here’s a sampling of your prior statements in this thread:

          “But it's mostly people in the ID Movement, but they aren't Christians.”

          “The ID Movement does not hold to the Biblical model of Creation. Thus, not Christian.”

          “‘The ID movement’s belief in evolution also allows them to distance themselves from the problem of evil in the natural world. Examples of this include pathogenic microbes, carnivorous animals, disease, and death.’
          As you can see ... not Biblical.”

          “They are moving away from the Bible and hold to anti-Biblical stances. That's NOT Christian.”

          You are declaring that ID proponents are not Christian and that they are not Biblical, but you do so based on your personal subjective appraisals of what qualifies as "true" Christian and "truly" Biblical. Furthermore, you make these suspect distinctions in order to distinguish what you clearly perceive to be a less worthy ID from a more worthy literal creationism.

          What you, as self-appointed arbiter, are saying is that no "true" Christian would embrace ID and that anything less than a strict literal reading of the Genesis narrative is not "truly" biblical. This is the quintessential "No True Scotsman Fallacy" where you are subjectively defining a group (Christians) in order to exclude those who self identify with that group, but do not share your personal, subjective views (ID proponents). What you apparently fail to grasp is that one's acceptance of Christ as savior is not contingent on whether they accept a literal reading of the Genesis creation narrative. Furthermore, to base one's ID position on a non-literal reading of Genesis, incorporating the central tenet of special creation by the biblical deity, is, in fact, an exercise in bible-based reasoning. The list I gave you are some of the most notable ID proponents. All profess Christ is their savior and all profess their neo-creationist beliefs are drawn from the divine revelation provided by the biblical deity within the Genesis narrative. Again, it's precisely because of these concessions that ID was held to be a religious, rather than a scientific position at Kitzmiller.

          Like all fundamentalists, you are conflating your personal subjective interpretation with some hypothetical single correct interpretation. You are effectively claiming for yourself an infallible discernment and then proceed to declare with pseudo-authority, who is and isn't a "true" Christian and what is and isn't "truly" bible-based.

          May 9, 2014 at 1:40 am |
      • samsstones

        Topher how about answering Egg's question from yesterday. Why do you assume you can influence other peoples children by handing out religious tracts but only want fellow fundies influencing your children?

        May 8, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
    • new-man

      Death and Life are in the power of the tongue and those who love it shall eat the fruit there of.

      In other words, the words you speak, intentional or idle words, these are the words which bring forth that which is now unseen/invisible into the visible realm = you will have what you say.

      If you had the slightest concept of the power of words you would use yours with more caution.
      God spoke and that which was invisible became visible.
      Words are sound waves, and when these sound waves have a divine source they bring the invisible into the realm of the visible.

      Speak what you want to see, not what you're "currently seeing"... this is how you change your future and the future of others.

      May 8, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Klaatu barada nikto!

        May 8, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
      • Concert in an Egg

        I am very aware of the power of words, and I say exactly what I mean to say.

        May 8, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
      • samsstones

        new-man Your last post was crazy, just plain fvcking crazy.

        May 8, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
      • Alias

        SO how did your god speak to create everything if therre was nothing to cary the sound waves before he spoke?

        May 8, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
    • samsstones

      Topherism...A condition that allows a person to reject knowledge that does not agree wit that persons a priori beliefs. (also known as Phileoidiotism).

      May 8, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      For God so loved the world that He killed everything that couldn't fit on a 400ft floating zoo.

      May 8, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
      • Doris

        LOL. Oh my thank you Doc – I needed that. OK now I have to go get something and clean off this monitor...lol.

        May 8, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
    • His Panic

      concert in a rotten egg.

      May 8, 2014 at 3:12 pm |
  2. Concert in an Egg

    Dear God, bless us on this day you have made for us. For this is a day when an elderly man was decapitated and his wife is missing. Father in Heaven, thank you for Boko Haram and the harm they are doing this very moment. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.

    May 8, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Concert:
      "I believe like a child that suffering will be healed and made up for, that all the humiliating absurdity of human contradictions will vanish like a pitiful mirage, like the despi.cable fabrication of the impotent and infinitely small Euclidean mind of man, that in the world's finale, at the moment of eternal harmony, something so precious will come to pass that it will suffice for all hearts, for the comforting of all resentments, for the atonement of all the crimes of humanity, for all the blood that they've shed; that it will make it not only possible to forgive but to justify all that has happened.”
      -Fyodor Dostoevsky

      May 8, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
      • Concert in an Egg

        Thanks Frodo, er...Fyodor.

        May 8, 2014 at 1:11 pm |
        • Russ

          @ Concert:
          "are all the sad things going to come untrue, Gandalf?" asked Sam Gamgee.
          – JRR Tolkien

          CS Lewis (at this point, an atheist): "myths are lies, though lies breathed through silver... Christianity is one such myth."
          Tolkien: "no, Christianity is the one true myth to which all the other myths point."

          May 8, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Russ, thanks for the quotes but I am not sure I understand the point you are trying to make. You like fantasy? Me too.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • Russ

          @ Concert: i love me some Tolkien. what makes for good fantasy? something that resonates with reality.

          point being: Tolkien was writing myth... because he believed all good story telling pointed to the ultimate Story: the Gospel – which he regarded as the one True Myth.

          here's an excerpt from a letter he wrote to his son:
          "Of course I do not mean that the Gospels tell what is only a fairy-story; but I do mean very strongly that they do tell a fairy-story: the greatest. Man the story-teller would have to be redeemed in a manner consonant with his nature: by a moving story. But since the author of it is the supreme Artist and the Author of Reality, this one was also made . . . to be true on the Primary Plane." (Letters, 100–101)

          May 8, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Tolkien was a devout Catholic. It is very evident in his works, particularly in the Silmarillion.

          It demonstrates that myth resonates with people, not that Jesus was resurrected.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:03 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          I am a big Tolkien geek so I know his story.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Sorry, meant for Russ.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
        • Russ

          @ GOP: that's the exact opposite of what Tolkien himself was arguing.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Yes. I understand that. He was a believer. I am not.

          I have a deep, deep love for Tolkien's works, but contrary to his opinion you quoted, they do not make me believe that Jesus was resurrected any more than I believe that Mithrandir or Frodo Baggins was.

          May 8, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
        • Russ

          @ GOP: along those lines, I think JRRT's point to Lewis was precisely along those lines. if it's merely inspiration derived from lies, what a tragedy. as (then atheist) Lewis himself said: "myths are lies, but lies breathed through silver."

          our hearts crave for this kind of answer (the resurrection / healing of all wounds /etc.).
          are we broken or is the universe?

          May 8, 2014 at 5:06 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          our hearts crave for this kind of answer (the resurrection / healing of all wounds /etc.).
          are we broken or is the universe?

          ----------------
          Clearly humans desire for there to be something more than a short struggle for oxygen followed by oblivion. We have created thousands of religions in an attempt to satisfy this desire.

          You put this question into the false dichotomy of "are we broken or is the universe" The universe simply is. The description 'broken' is irrelevant.

          I'd say rather than try to invent wish fulfillment with myth and fairy tales about the way we'd like things to be, why not just find our contentment in our present existence, make ours the best lives we can live and just enjoy the ride we have, rather than invent one to dream about.

          May 8, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • Russ

          @ GOP:
          1) you said: "Clearly humans desire for there to be something more than a short struggle for oxygen followed by oblivion. We have created thousands of religions in an attempt to satisfy this desire."

          what does that say about our nature?
          whether you believe it merely evolution or something more, what does it say about our 'design'?

          2) you said: "You put this question into the false dichotomy of "are we broken or is the universe" The universe simply is. The description 'broken' is irrelevant."

          not a false dichotomy... you may object to the terminology but your answer says *we* are the ones who are broken (or at least our perception of reality). if the universe 'just is,' then why would we feel the deep need to change its reality?

          3) you said: "I'd say rather than try to invent wish fulfillment with myth and fairy tales about the way we'd like things to be, why not just find our contentment in our present existence, make ours the best lives we can live and just enjoy the ride we have, rather than invent one to dream about."

          a) sounds like a heavy dose of Freud, but why not apply that grid to Freud himself? does he pass his own test? after all, isn't it "wish fulfillment" for him to claim all such desires ARE merely wish fulfillment? he is hoist by his own petard.

          b) moreover, what is the 'ride' if its essence is pure meaninglessness? why feel the need to fabricate meaning at all? isn't that equally susceptible to Freud's 'wish fulfillment' critique? either way, you can't escape that life IS 'dreaming' (a myth, if you will).

          4) lastly, to press your point, Christianity does not regard itself in such anthropocentric terms (man made God instead of God made man). rather, the reason for our deep desires is we were *created for a purpose*, one that is unrealized apart from God. and instead of regarding our perception (of existence) as broken, it affirms that existence was not meant to be so baldly meaningless. we were made to love – because we are the creatures of Love himself. if the universe "just is", as you put it, how is "love" (or "contentment" or any such fabrication) anything but a myth and wish fulfillment?

          either way, such demythologizing claims *everything* is a myth. in the end, it's blindness.
          case in point...

          ***************
          “The kind of explanation which explains things away may give us something, though at a heavy cost. But you cannot go on ‘explaining away’ for ever: you will find that you have explained explanation itself away. You cannot go on ‘seeing through’ things for ever.

          The whole point of seeing through something is to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too? It is no use trying to ‘see through’ first principles.

          If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To ‘see through’ all things is the same as not to see.”

          –C. S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man (New York: HarperCollins, 1944/2001), 81.

          May 8, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Russ,

          sorry not to read your whole post carefully – it is very long. But a couple of points:

          – We weren't designed.
          – Life without an afterlife isn't meaningless. It can be if you make it that way, but we can choose to make it meaningful.
          – Of course "we" designed the Abrahamic God in our own image.

          May 8, 2014 at 6:03 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "either way, such demythologizing claims *everything* is a myth"
          --------------
          We are no closer to answering the great philosophical questions of existence (like "why are we here?") than Plato.

          There's an awful lot we don't know about the universe around us. To know that we don't know is better than simplistic explanations like "God did it".

          And yes all religions are myths. It becomes delusional to make stuff up so we can feel like we have a mystical purpose. Just get on with it and make the best of things.

          May 8, 2014 at 9:02 pm |
        • Doris

          Russ: "because we are the creatures of Love himself."

          Russ, certainly you must realize how bizarre this sounds.

          May 8, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
        • Russ

          @ GOP:
          1) too long to read? 1/3 of it was quoting you & responding – point by point.
          it's unfortunate you thought that wasn't worth your time...
          not to mention it's a great way to avoid answering a critique.

          2) ironically, your short 'responses' are largely unfounded *faith*-based claims.

          3) admitting you believe existence to be meaningless at its core, meaningless throughout, and yet we are supposed to fabricate meaning & "just get on with it"... not only is that utterly self-contradictory but it sounds like you saying: "yep, just live life with your head in the sand."

          May 8, 2014 at 10:00 pm |
        • Russ

          @ Doris: truth is often stranger than fiction.

          May 8, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "admitting you believe existence to be meaningless at its core, meaningless throughout,
          ------------------
          I did no such thing. What I actually said is that it is a choice to live meaningfully.

          You are the one who construes the argument that life is only meaningful if there is an afterlife. I don't agree.

          May 9, 2014 at 12:40 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "ironically, your short 'responses' are largely unfounded *faith*-based claims"
          -----------------–
          Nonsense.

          Disbelief is not a religion, etc. I'm not going to waste more time on you.

          May 9, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
        • Russ

          @ GOP:
          1) you admit you are subjectively fabricating meaning ("it is a choice to live meaningfully") but you refuse to follow through with the corollary. is there objective meaning or not?

          you appear to claim some sort of via negativa (we just don't/can't know) – but then you won't live in light of your supposed knowledge. it's inconsistent.

          consider Dawkins (at least he's being honest here):
          "In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."
          —Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (Basic Books, 1995), 95.

          to claim that is the essence of your belief (and it is a belief) about the nature of existence & live as though there is actually some subjective purpose... it's simply existential schizophrenia.

          i'm not saying you have to believe in an afterlife to have meaning. i'm saying you have to believe the universe has meaning for it to make sense to think any subset of the universe should actually have meaning (such as yourself).

          2) "nonsense"? "not waste anymore time"? we're actually getting down to brass tax.
          it is not your disbelief to which i'm pointing, but your *beliefs* that are the problem.

          as i've often quoted here:
          "Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as science without presuppositions…a philosophy, a ‘faith’ must always be there first, so that science can acquire from it a direction, a meaning, a limit, a method, a right to exist…It is still a metaphysical faith that underlies our faith in science.”
          -Nietzsche

          at least Nietzsche sees the problem. as does Thomas Nagel of NYU & others. look at the critiques of Hawking's "Grand Design." the problem is not "disbelief" as you say, but the *beliefs* required to reject a different set of beliefs.

          May 10, 2014 at 2:09 pm |
  3. His Panic

    Being roman-catholic is not the same thing as Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son. They are not one and the same thing, neither is the same as being a christian, much less being saved. So they cannot loose what they NEVER really had in the first place.

    Faking it is not going to do it, it just does not work that way. Those who really, really, for real Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic. Those who Fake it those who only have "religion" WILL Panic and get into brawls, stampedes, rebellions, revolutions and riots. Because they are ALWAYS in the wrong place at the wrong time, doing the wrong thing.

    If you do not Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son, you WILL Panic in due time.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Being roman-catholic is the same thing as Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
      • His Panic

        NO is NOT! You been egged!

        May 8, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          It is really more of an egg "shell" than a whole egg.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
        • fintronics

          Egg, seems like you got him to PANIC....

          May 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • His Panic

          I would say that is more like a concert in a rotten egg.
          Fintronics is in a State of anxiety already, which can lead to hysteria and even to Panic.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
    • Madtown

      God's Only Son
      ---
      Do you find it interesting that God is alledged to have only 1 son? Couldn't an omnipotent god have as many as he wanted or needed? I have 2 myself, I know I'm not more powerful than God.

      May 8, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
      • snuffleupagus

        Madtown said: "I know I'm not more powerful than God."

        Sur you are Mad, you do have two, and smart ones as well. God had to kill his misfit on a cross. His own son wanted to know why he was forsaken.

        May 8, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
    • snuffleupagus

      Panicky, if you even BELIEVE half the schitt you post, you're the one panicking. It shows how scared you are. Get a grip there are meds for your anxiety attacks. Are you panicking because they'll put you back in the rubber room?

      May 8, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
    • His Panic

      Being in the wrong place at the wrong time, doing the wrong thing, ALWAYS and all the time, is a sure sign of lack and absence of the Real Faith and Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son. All of these things can and do produce anxiety, hysteria, and Panic.

      You know that guy the Pope of the RCC I, even I, could be may be his Panic.

      May 8, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
      • fintronics

        Obsession = " a persistent idea or impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness, often associated with anxiety and mental illness"

        obsessed with "PANIC"

        May 8, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • His Panic

          Are you obsessed?

          May 8, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
    • Russ

      @ His Panic:
      you seem to have bought into the misconception that Jesus wants literally to scare the H.ell out of people.
      that's not the sentiment of the NT: "perfect love casts out all fear" (1 Jn.4:18).

      May 8, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
      • His Panic

        Scaring the hell OUT of people or Scaring people OUT of hell may be a good thing. Prov. 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

        However that is NOT what I have been saying. So you are the one with a misconception. Yes Perfect Love cast out Fear, but you missed the entire verse and of course the previous and following verses, which is never a good idea and ALWAYS a bad practice. So let's see that again:
        1st John 4:17-19
        17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
        18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
        19 We love, because He first loved us.

        That CONFIDENCE in verse 17 is the Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son. Those who Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic

        May 8, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
        • Russ

          @ His Panic:
          so... are you claiming the fear of Pr.1 is the SAME as that of 1 Jn.4:18 (which would make the bible self-contradictory)?
          or... do you recognize they are two DIFFERENT things? (reverence vs. paralyzing terror)

          Proverbs 1 is speaking of reverence, not being scared out of your mind.

          The fear you predominantly preach here:
          a) is – for the most part – unbiblical (at the very least it misses a biblical balance)
          b) does not lead to falling in love with Jesus, but simply running from him
          c) demonstrates that you believe in a war-mongering God, not one who "abounds in mercy and compassion."

          Do the cross & resurrection lead you to fear H.ell or be in awe of God's love?
          Did God woo *you* to himself through fear-mongering or by demonstrating his unfailing love (Hos.2:14)?

          May 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • fintronics

          Obsession = " a persistent idea or impulse that continually forces its way into consciousness, often associated with anxiety and mental illness"

          His panic = obsessed with "PANIC"

          May 8, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • His Panic

          @Russ,

          You are far from the Truth, because either you are unable to read well or you are purposely twisting my word to fit your denominational dogmas. Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son, if real and not fake it will Lead to the Perfect Love and thus Confidence. Therefore those who Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic I'm NOT a preacher, i don't make a living that way, I have a real Job.

          May 8, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
        • His Panic

          Are you Obsessed Fintronics? That "obsession" could lead you to anxiety, hysteria or worst yet to Panic. As a result of Panic you may end-up involve in brawls, stampedes even riots.

          Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son and you WILL NOT Panic

          May 8, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
        • Madtown

          those who Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic
          -----
          "Who is Jesus Christ? Never heard of him."

          – signed, your human brother who God created and placed by birth in a primitive culture inhabiting the Amazon rainforest jungle

          May 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
        • Russ

          @ His Panic:
          1) no, i'm not talking about denominational lines. i'm simply talking about biblical content.
          trust in Jesus? yes. but most of your writings here come across as fear-mongering.

          read what Jesus said in the Gospels.
          he is consistently GENTLE with those far from God (the Sadducees are the only exception I can think of off hand) and consistently HARSH with those who *think* they are so close to God (like you & me).

          2) Jesus was a preacher for 3 years. are you saying he didn't have a real job?

          May 8, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
  4. jknbt

    all the hispanic young people I know are involved in pentecostal christianity...none of them seem to care much about the roman church of their grandparents. when hispanics come north across the border, they want to become pentecostal.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:46 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      all the hispanic young people I know would fit in a small paper bag.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "none of them seem to care much about the roman church of their grandparents. when hispanics come north across the border, they want to become pentecostal"
      ------------------

      According to the article, which is data-driven, not opinion-driven, "Nearly a third of Latino adults under 30 don't belong to a faith group"

      and
      "The overall breakdown of the nation's estimated 35.4 million Latinos is: 55% Catholic, 22% Protestant and 18% unaffiliated."

      May 8, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
  5. Concert in an Egg

    All things; literally ALL things are completely impossible for god(s) to do. They cannot take any action. Fact.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
  6. new-man

    we as believers have a commission:
    Then Jesus called together the Twelve [apostles] and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases,
    And He sent them out to announce and preach the kingdom of God and to bring healing.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
    • bacbik

      .. and ever since then his followers were mixed up and each had a different recipe...

      May 8, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
    • gulliblenomore

      Newman.....,cure all diseases? You're kidding, right?

      May 8, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
      • new-man

        is this an impossibility for God?

        May 8, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • bacbik

          is it an impossibility for Casper the Friendly Ghost?

          May 8, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Newman ....apparently...haven't you been keeping up with the cancer rates?

          May 8, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
        • snuffleupagus

          new-man

          ..."is this an impossibility for God?"

          Sure it is. It hasn't cured one person. You may 'claim' a cure for a person, but your god didn't do it. Your god has not eliminated one disease. Not. One.

          May 8, 2014 at 12:44 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Please bow your heads:

      Dear Lord, thank you for all the sorrow you have brought to us on this day and all the many dark days of the past when you ignored our suffering and did nothing to prevent horrifying atrocities from taking place. Your worthlessness is the key to salvation. Amen.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
      • Alias

        Why do you keep whining about the suffering on the earth?

        May 8, 2014 at 5:30 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Because I am against it. What do you whine about?

          May 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm |
    • Madtown

      we as believers have a commission
      ----
      No you don't, you only think you do. Where is your commission stated?

      May 8, 2014 at 12:45 pm |
      • Concert in an Egg

        It is an interesting notion that one can have a commission based off a belief in fictional stories.

        May 8, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
        • snuffleupagus

          They work on commissisions? :-O. No wonder they're out on the street corners or knocking on doors! Yikes! (BTW, jk).

          May 8, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
      • new-man

        why is it someone who doesn't believe in YHWH keeps chasing after every word He says in order to place their own stamp of unbelief and disapproval over the word of God.
        Is your throne higher than YHWH's friend?

        May 8, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • new-man

          the above message was for Madtown.

          May 8, 2014 at 12:51 pm |
        • Concert in an Egg

          Where are there any thrones?

          May 8, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
        • snuffleupagus

          new-man, exactly what word(s) did he say? Everything in your book is heresay, nothing more. It's a book of someone said this and they said that, but there are NO direct QUOTES from your god/lord. Not one apostle wrote down what this guy supposedly said. Not. One.

          May 8, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
        • Madtown

          chasing after every word He says
          ----
          Because we still aren't sure he's actually "said" any word. If he has, I'd certainly be interested in reading it, or hearing it.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
        • igaftr

          Why do you guys keep falsely using the name YHWH? The W was not even used until the 14 th century, so did your god not have a name until then? The proper translation would be YHVH, most closely pronounced Yea-vah.
          YHWH could not exist until the 14 century.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:01 pm |
        • new-man

          Madtown,
          who is "we"? = you and a bunch of unbelievers. you can only speak for yourself.
          It is quite clear you don't know the word of God, pretending/claiming to discredit scripture as the word of God is simply foolish on your part as you haven't the slightest concept of what it is you're denying.

          Peter= If any man speak, let him speak the oracles of God.
          Stephen= Our fathers received the living oracles to give unto us.

          What are these living oracles Madtown?

          "God did in fact commit His communication, His revelation of Himself to Israel and the 12 tribes– Moses and the Prophets were sent to the 12 tribes of Israel.
          The written Logion – Oracles, the Holy Scripture were committed to Israel's keeping and still to this day exists as the one and only Hebrew text (amidst all the different versions/translations of the Bible). The Hebrew text is still in the order it was in 3500 years ago when Moses penned every word.

          Would you care to explain how it is that "primitive sheep herders" as most of you love to derogatorily call them were able to in and of themselves write scripture such that the first two books Genesis & Exodus spell TORAH=LAW for every equidistant letter sequence of the 50th letter... and does the same backwards HAROT for Numbers & Deuteronomy, and the 3rd book that they're pointing towards Leviticus, every 7th letter (7 is God's number for perfection) spells YHWH= The name of God.

          TORAH TORAH TORAH >YHWH YHWH YHWH<HAROT HAROT HAROT you get the picture
          This CANNOT be done by any man and still retain the meaning of scripture/or the text in which it is written.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • gulliblenomore

          Newman....the bible is a collection of words, written by men, collected and edited by men, claiming a divine author. If anyone is foolish here, it is you for falling for the scam.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • igaftr

          newman
          "It is quite clear you don't know the word of God"
          And neither do you. You have a book written by MEN, there is not one word in it written by any gods. ALL you have is that book that makes the baseless , unsubstantiated claims that theses men were speaking for god.
          Problem one: no one has ever had any eveidence of any gods
          problem two. iF you could show gods exist, then you would have to show that any gods had anything to do with it, and then show it was YOUR god.

          Until then, you know nothing...you believe. It is delusion to tkae belief and claim it is knowledge. If that symptom persists, seek a qualified non-religious mental health professional.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • Doris

          Many scholars are convinced that Peter was not the author of 1 Peter because the author had to have a formal education in rhetoric/philosophy and an advanced knowledge of the Greek language. And of course most NT scholars agree that Peter did not author Peter 2. And so it goes with much of the NT scripture that surrounds Paul's rantings.

          May 8, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • otoh2

          new-man,

          Your TORAH - HAROT (etc.) Bible Code game has been compared to this:

          "The Texas sharpshooter fallacy is an informal fallacy which is committed when differences in data are ignored, but similarities are stressed. From this reasoning a false conclusion is inferred.[1] This fallacy is the philosophical/rhetorical application of the multiple comparisons problem (in statistics) and apophenia (in cognitive psychology). It is related to the clustering illusion, which refers to the tendency in human cognition to interpret patterns where none actually exist.

          The name comes from a joke about a Texan who fires some shots at the side of a barn, then paints a target centered on the biggest cluster of hits and claims to be a sharpshooter."

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

          May 8, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • otoh2

          new-man,
          "the first two books Genesis & Exodus spell TORAH=LAW for every equidistant letter sequence of the 50th letter."

          50?! Well, GAWLEE, that's the exact number of states in the U.S.! It's a SIGN!

          We will certainly have to keep that in mind when Puerto Rico, The Virgin Islands, D.C. or any others want statehood!

          May 8, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • Madtown

          pretending/claiming to discredit scripture as the word of God is simply foolish on your part as you haven't the slightest concept of what it is you're denying.
          ------
          Oh, but I do. It's the creative word of human beings, that has also been edited, translated, transcribed, and continually offered in new and different versions.........all by HUMAN BEINGS. As you are evidence, human beings are exceptionally imperfect and fallible. So I know what I'm denying....the idea that God is responsible for the creation of the bible. I believe God to be powerful, and capable of crafting word without human help. He didn't need human help to create the universe, why would he need our help to scratch out a few words in a book? I don't doubt the power of God like you do.

          May 8, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
    • In Santa We Trust

      An omnipotent, omniscient god that supposedly created the universe and all in it, would not have needed to create evil, disease, and illness in the first place and would have the power to eliminate evil, disease, and illness if it chose to. Clearly it either chooses to allow those things or doesn't really exist. I know which makes more sense.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
  7. Reality

    Putting the kibosh on all religion and the finisher1 in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

    May 8, 2014 at 12:15 pm |
    • guidedans

      Just because you write something down does not make it true. I like your qualifier of "As far as anyone can tell..."

      Also, you always ask us for proof of our beliefs. What "proof" do you have that any of these statements are true?

      May 8, 2014 at 6:32 pm |
    • Reality

      Added details as requested:

      1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

      “New Torah For Modern Minds

      Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “

      prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

      2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

      The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

      earlychristianwritings.com/

      For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

      Current RCC problems:

      Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

      2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

      Current problems:
      Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

      3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

      This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, the Filipino “koranics”and the Boston Marthon bombers.

      And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

      Current crises:

      The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

      4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

      The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

      Current problems:

      The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

      5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

      "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

      Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

      Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

      Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

      May 8, 2014 at 6:38 pm |
  8. fintronics

    "According to other studies conducted by Pew in recent years, nearly a third of all millennials – Americans between the ages of 18-33 – are religiously unaffiliated, a dramatic and ongoing change from previous generations."

    Excellent news!... there is hope for America.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:05 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      Sometimes we forget how young the U.S. is. More secular non-religious nations have been around for a longer time and had some extra generations to move forward. That and the information age will see this trend continue until we are are secular nation in practice at home and in politics.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:14 pm |
  9. guidedans

    Atheists,

    What is your end-game? What are you working for? What is your main goal in life? If you are trying to make the world a better place, to what end? I guarantee that, within a billion years, the Earth will be uninhabitable. Even if you find a way to create medicine that lets you live forever and you build spaceships to colonize the rest of the planets out there, eventually, the entire universe will run out of energy and everything will settle into darkness until the day that atoms themselves stop spinning and matter entirely breaks apart.

    What are you working for if, regardless of what you do, the end result will always be the same: the heat death of the universe?

    May 8, 2014 at 11:54 am |
    • fintronics

      Do you have a point to this rant??

      May 8, 2014 at 11:59 am |
      • guidedans

        I am just trying to get you to think about the end game. We all have an end game in mind when we perform any real actions. I get in my car because my end game is that I want to get to work. My goal of getting to work is what motivates my actions to get into my car.

        What I do not understand is that, if your end game is that you are going to die, and, even if you are extraordinarily influential, that your influence will one day fade, what motivates you in life?

        May 8, 2014 at 5:37 pm |
    • gulliblenomore

      Dans....I refuse to believe in something that does not exist just because the alternative is 'scary'. I think it is admirable that the Hindus believe they will be reincarnated when they die, but it is blissful ignorance. Same thing with Christians. You asked about me? I plan on having as much fun here on earth as I can. That's it. I get one life....I'm going to enjoy it.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
      • guidedans

        I respect your honesty. I can understand the desire to know the truth in the world, but I really wonder what that gets you in the end. It sounds like you are valuing being right over being hopeful or faithful. I am not saying that it is easy to ignore what you feel to be facts and truths in order to take on a faith, but you have to think that you could be wrong even if all the evidence is telling you that you are right. There is always a risk that you are wrong about what you believe.

        I just think that chasing "truth" is an endless cause that will set your goal outside of reach.

        I am a big fan in putting your faith into something that you believe in, even at the cost of being wrong.

        I have come to the point in my life where, I really do not care whether I am right or not. I have a belief set that I truly enjoy and truly believe. If I am wrong, at least I fought the good fight for what I believed in.

        May 8, 2014 at 5:45 pm |
    • Concert in an Egg

      I almost replied to this but then realized you must be joking.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:04 pm |
    • Madtown

      What is your main goal in life?
      ---
      To do my best to enjoy my time here, and bring whatever amount of happiness I can to those close to me, and to those not close to me, if possible.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:14 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      guidedans is playing Pascal's Wager game...and not playin it well either.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
    • SeaVik

      What does this question have to do with atheists? The question is the same for all of us.

      I am just trying to enjoy my time on earth while being a good person and trying to make the world a better place along the way. Part of that, for me, includes trying to prevent children from being brain-washed.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
  10. snuffleupagus

    thefinisher1

    I already explain this. The more you push religion away, more will come back. You don't want anything to do with religion, so, what do you do? Create a brand new religion that YOU created! Basically, the more you push your atheism, the more religion will exist. Either way, atheism will always lose!

    Finished, I gave you credit for being at least being intentionally ignorant and arrogant. I was wrong... you're just a hateful, small minded, mealy-mouthed moron, a punk kid. Pull that cross out of your butt, jeebus is suffocating, and you're enjoying it too much.

    May 8, 2014 at 11:46 am |
  11. neverbeenhappieratheist

    Young people are being pushed away from the Church by the religious morons who claim to be trying to save Christianity. I believe even here there are many that read comments from the religious and can't help but take offense at their ever shrinking island of hate, discrimination and deceit.

    May 8, 2014 at 11:24 am |
  12. thefinisher1

    Young people worship famous people like they are gods, they worship their phones, and they worship TV. Good job atheists! They don't want to learn about science! They invented their own religion where famous people are worshipped because of their fame and money! Ha. Atheists are deluded fools.

    May 8, 2014 at 8:24 am |
    • gulliblenomore

      Finisher...is there some reason why you think you need to be such an obnoxious p-rick on all your posts? How exactly is it atheists fault that young people worship famous people? I see no connection there.

      May 8, 2014 at 8:30 am |
      • thefinisher1

        You desire them to leave God behind them and in return they create a brand new religion. Silly!

        May 8, 2014 at 8:44 am |
        • gulliblenomore

          Finisher...now how does a desire cause actual results? I desire to win a million dollars, but that is not happening. You can't even draw the correlation for your own statement. Once again, please tell me exactly how atheists made young people worship famous people....or retract your ignorant statement.

          May 8, 2014 at 9:03 am |
        • thefinisher1

          You want religion gone don't you? Atheists preach religion is worthless an young people buy it. Stupid troll can't realize he's wrong! Ha! You make me laugh, kid!

          May 8, 2014 at 9:08 am |
        • gulliblenomore

          Finisher....I'm sorry...I didn't realize you were mentally impaired. I'll try to make this easier for you to understand so that maybe you will get it. Atheists have no churches, no bully pulpit in order to pass our message along. We don't go to anybody's house to pass out pamphlets. We have no radio stations to get out the word. Now....once more....how exactly are atheists making young people worship famous people? See if you can answer this time without being a total d-ick. I doubt you can, but try.

          May 8, 2014 at 9:18 am |
        • Madtown

          "Worship me."

          – K. Kardashian

          May 8, 2014 at 9:56 am |
        • thefinisher1

          I already explain this. The more you push religion away, more will come back. You don't want anything to do with religion, so, what do you do? Create a brand new religion that YOU created! Basically, the more you push your atheism, the more religion will exist. Either way, atheism will always lose!

          May 8, 2014 at 11:09 am |
        • gulliblenomore

          Finisher...you did not state how atheists are pushing youth towards worshiping famous people. Could it be that they are getting bored with the illogicality of organized religion? Could it be new scientific discoveries pushing them towards the obvious? Could it be the nonsensical rigidity of religious zealots? Could it be the crazy rankings of Michelle Bachman? Yes....to all of those things! And you are quite wrong about atheism. It is growing in popularity while religion is declining. That is a fact. There will always be religious nuts, just hopefully not too many.

          May 8, 2014 at 11:36 am |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Why is it a problem that young people think for themselves? The more knowledge we gain the more apparent it is that the bible stories are nonsense – the creation myth, the miracles, the inconsistencies, etc. All the mental convolutions believers need to make to reconcile that nonsense. Access to the internet and TV is giving young people more information sooner (some as you say probably a waste of time), but with respect to religion it shows alternatives before they become lifelong habits.

          May 8, 2014 at 11:36 am |
        • Woody

          "You don't want anything to do with religion, so, what do you do? Create a brand new religion that YOU created!" – thefinisher1

          Huh?????? Finisher, if I were you, I wouldn't bother mailing in that Mensa Society application.

          May 8, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      At least famous people are real.

      May 8, 2014 at 9:16 am |
      • gulliblenomore

        Blessed....finisher is really an idiot. How do you even get through to knuckleheads like this? He has to be 12.....at least that would explain the p-rickish behavior.

        May 8, 2014 at 9:24 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          He/she is just a christian troll....not interested in discussion or reasonable debate, afraid of people popping the balloon the of religious delusion.... whose only weapon is acrimony...and isn't even well armed.

          May 8, 2014 at 10:57 am |
        • thefinisher1

          Who says I'm a Christian? You? Based on...what evidence? Did I say I was or did you A$$ume it?

          May 8, 2014 at 11:05 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          If you are not a Christian just come out and say it...deny Jesus and then we will know.

          Stupid troll.

          May 8, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "He/she is just a christian troll..."

          "Who says I'm a Christian?"

          Ah, so at least he/she admits to being a troll...

          May 8, 2014 at 11:28 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "Ah, so at least he/she admits to being a troll..."

          Hard to believe but that part would be harder to deny.

          May 8, 2014 at 11:32 am |
  13. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    "Study: Young Latinos losing faith"

    Meh.

    Just like all the other American millennials.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:49 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "According to other studies conducted by Pew in recent years, nearly a third of all millennials – Americans between the ages of 18-33 – are religiously unaffiliated, a dramatic and ongoing change from previous generations."

      At least Pew data tells it like it is.

      May 8, 2014 at 12:51 am |
  14. Bootyfunk

    Latinos believe less in magic and more in reality - woohoo! church/temple/mosque attendance is down among all youth. a victory for cognitive thinking.

    May 8, 2014 at 12:46 am |
  15. Concert in an Egg

    K-Town

    He could smell her from his position, directly downwind of the Santa Ana’s, the putrid air-born tendril of urine and body odor makes a formidable weapon. Her socks, slung over the tops of her borrowed Converse flaps. Here teeth only a reminder of public service announcements. The hair was everywhere. Not untidy exactly, just….everywhere. Like a blanket over her. She had a pleasing form though. Hard not to look twice. So hard in fact, many had made her their project. Each had failed. For her the addiction was her destiny and would lead to her death. But not today.

    Joe Skinner rarely looked up when he was walking in L.A. Nobody on these streets needed directions or knew where any stars lived. This was Korea Town, the crossroads where Heaven and Hell conduct their business. It was different now. The riots broke the peace and historians were quick to point out that Korea Town was marginalized during the Rodney King Riots of 1992 and it was happening again. Neighborly “hellos” became tense and less friendly. If you want someone to get your back, stay in your part of town. And don’t bother calling 911.

    Joe called 911. The voice on the other end of his “iMate” spoke in hushed tones. Joe laughed. He knew they would have to follow up on any call. If Ryerson shows up, He’s dead. Joe still had friends everywhere in the eight block neighborhood of K-Town. He walked without being disturbed, but only because he understood protocol. K-Town in 2033 was not only unsafe, it was anarchy and there were untouchables.

    That is when he saw it. A photograph. Hard to see in the wet gutter, but the man in the image was beautiful. Long flowing hair that wasn’t messy but practically covered his whole upper section. Skinner reached for it. It sizzled in his fingers and glowed. This was Jesus and he was come unto the Earth to save humans at long last.

    Joe on the other hand really wanted to get baked before work and needed a paper and Jesus was handy. It was wet but they had one of those electric 2025 hand dryers in the rest room of the filling station he stood next to. He blazed, and soon saw Jesus once again. This time Jesus stood before him saying, “I brought unto you a miracle and this is how you betray your lack of awe to the sight of me?

    Joe thought a moment and finally looked at Jesus and said, “You crazy fuck, here, toke up bro!” The party lasted long into the night. Jesus got tore up and the moral of the story is that Marijuana should be legal in the United States.

    May 7, 2014 at 8:10 pm |
    • fintronics

      Great story!.. loved it!

      May 8, 2014 at 12:07 pm |
  16. idiotusmaximus

    More than half (55%) say they just "drifted away" from organized religion. A similar number (52%), say they no longer believed in the teachings of their childhood religion..............

    The more educated one becomes the less religious one is.......when you see educated politicians and professional people of all kinds talking religiousness it's lip service for the ignorant...it's part of their job....other wise there's trouble from the little people.

    May 7, 2014 at 8:09 pm |
    • gulliblenomore

      max.....have to agree with you. I have yet to meet a firm believer of the bible (Noah, Adam and Eve, talking snake, etc) that was not an ignorant fool. To not believe in evolution, or worse yet, to believe the earth is only 6000 years old takes an amazing amount of narrow mindedness to summarily dismiss, despite all the physical and scientific evidence supporting both evolution and the age of the earth.

      May 7, 2014 at 10:48 pm |
  17. Concert in an Egg

    Heaven is a place in Hell; a place where Angels and Demons dwell.

    The bell rings, the Devil Swings and on God’s throne he begins to dwell.

    Looking through space and time, the duality of the immortals shine.

    The singing begins and the song is one of the infinite. Universes are sung, galaxies too;

    Star and planet, us.

    But we can hear the singing not;

    For we are here on this planet caught.

    The webs we weave; tears to deceive.

    Rob of us of our own immortal lot.

    May 7, 2014 at 8:06 pm |
  18. Concert in an Egg

    My thorns, now flies; buzzing around my gruesome head and face

    My wasted body finally brought down; breathe still in me just a whisper

    Nurtured and cleansed; bandaged and cared for

    Now I am risen to say my final farewell

    Do not worship me; do not mourn for me

    Do not build churches for me or profit from me

    I am a man, born of a woman from the seed of my father

    I am as you are; a man and a human being

    Learn from the sacrifices I have made; learn from the hypocrisy

    Remember me as a friend

    May 7, 2014 at 8:04 pm |
  19. Concert in an Egg

    Three giants tower over their children;
    Tumbling rocks on an ancient river bed;
    Bright green moss connecting root and boulder;
    Branches reaching out in every direction to drink each drop of light;
    A spreading canopy over a pristine patch of forest.

    From the nothing sprang my universe;
    Thanking the Mother I sing out loud;
    God is not here and I am grateful;
    Wooden fingers gnarl and wind and snap;
    My world is sudden and breathtaking and lovely and hard;
    I will be swallowed by the texture.

    May 7, 2014 at 8:03 pm |
  20. Concert in an Egg

    The troll;

    frozen in time;

    squeezes through the crevice;

    now blocked by green rock and green tree;

    just as he.

    May 7, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.