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May 22nd, 2014
07:04 PM ET
Pope Francis in the Holy Land: 5 things to knowBy Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Editor [twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN'] (CNN) - So, a rabbi, a sheikh and a pope travel to the Holy Land… It might sound like the start of a trite joke, but it’s actually the entourage for one of the most highly anticipated papal trips in recent history. As Pope Francis heads to Jordan, Bethlehem and Jerusalem this weekend, he’s bringing along two old friends from Argentina: Rabbi Abraham Skorka, who co-wrote a book with the Pope, and Sheikh Omar Abboud, who leads Argentina’s Muslim community. The Vatican says it’s the first time that a pope’s official entourage has included interfaith leaders. In a region roiled by competing religious and political visions, Francis’ chosen companions communicate an unmistakable message, church officials said. “It’s highly symbolic, of course,” said the Rev. Thomas Rosica, a consultant to the Vatican press office. “But it also sends a pragmatic message to Muslims, Christians and Jews that it’s possible to work together - not as a system of checks and balances but as friends.” The visit to the Holy Land is the first for Francis as leader of the Roman Catholic Church, and just the fourth for any pontiff in the modern era. With so much at stake - the stalled negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians, the plight of Christian refugees - the Pope’s every word, gesture and photo-op will be microscopically examined. Already, some conservative Israelis are advocating against the Pope’s visit, scrawling anti-Christian graffiti on Catholic buildings in Jerusalem and planning protests outside papal events in Jerusalem. While the protesters form a fringe minority, they underscore the tensions that simmer around the Pope’s short but substantial trip. With those challenges in mind, here are five key things to pay particular attention to. 1. The Pope’s schedule makes Rick Steves look lazy. It’s a good thing the 77-year-old pontiff rested up this week. Francis will be traveling to three cities, shaking hands with dozens of religious and political leaders, celebrating several Catholic Masses and delivering at least 13 speeches and homilies – all in less than 36 hours. In Jordan, the Pope will meet with King Abdullah II, greet refugees from Iraq and Syria, celebrate Mass and visit the Jordan River, where many Christians believe Jesus was baptized. Crowds welcome Pope Francis to Jordan at start of Holy Land trip In Jerusalem, the Pope will meet the city’s grand mufti and chief rabbis, visit the Western Wall and Yad Vashem (a memorial to the Holocaust), lay a wreath on the grave of the founder of modern Zionism, and sign a joint declaration with the head of Eastern Orthodox Christians. He’ll also confer with Israel’s Prime Minister and President, chat with Catholic seminarians and celebrate Mass at the site of the Last Supper. Got all that? “I’m amazed at what they are trying to do in such a short amount of time,” Rosica said. 2. The Pope says the trip is religious, not political. Francis has called the reasons behind his Holy Land excursion “strictly religious.” Earlier, he had described it as a “pilgrimage for prayer.” Perhaps the popular pontiff was trying to tamp down expectations that his visit could solve the region’s seemingly intractable political problems. But the trip does have religious roots, church officials say. At the Pope’s installation in 2013, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, the spiritual leader of some 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide, invited Francis to Jerusalem to mark the 50th anniversary of a historic meeting between their predecessors. “It’s hard to understand now what a breakthrough that meeting was,” said the Rev. Alexander Karloutsos, an Eastern Orthodox priest who is helping organize part of the Pope's trip. At the time, the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, the world’s two largest Christian communities, weren’t even on speaking terms, said Karloutsos. Marriages celebrated in one church would not be recognized by the other. On Sunday, Francis and Bartholomew will sign a joint declaration outlining common principles and a potential path forward to greater unity. “These people don’t sign things lightly,” Karloutsos said. “This is a very substantial document.” Francis and Bartholomew also will celebrate a joint religious service at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem on Sunday, the first time the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic leaders have held such a service in 50 years, according to Karloutsos. 3. The ‘people’s Pope’ will strike again He has celebrated Masses for migrants who drowned while trying to sail to Europe, visited Brazil’s most dangerous neighborhoods and welcomed homeless men in Rome to his birthday party. In the Holy Land, Pope Francis is again expected to draw the world’s attention to the poor and downtrodden; he has refused to travel, as most leaders do in the Middle East, in an armored car. In Jordan, where some 600,000 Syrians have fled since the start of the civil war in 2011, the Pope will meet refugees and disabled young people before delivering a speech at a church in Bethany. On the West Bank, he will greet children from several Palestinian refugee camps. Palestinian Archbishop Atallah Hanna, who is Eastern Orthodox (as are most Christians in the Middle East) said he hopes Pope Francis will “see the suffering of the Palestinian people.” “We are misrepresented and are unfortunately seen by some to be criminals and terrorists,” Hanna said. “I hope they can see that we are a civilized, peaceful and well-educated people seeking freedom and a better future.” John Esposito, an expert on international relations at Georgetown University, said the Pope’s meeting with Christians in Bethlehem could open some eyes about the Israel-Palestinian standoff. “It will underscore the fact that it’s not just a Muslim-Jewish conflict,” he said. 4. Conservative Israelis are nervous. In the weeks before the Pope’s arrival, graffiti calling Jesus “garbage” and calling for “death to Arabs and Christians” has been scrawled on Christian buildings in Jerusalem. Ultra-Orthodox Jews have planned to protest outside the site of the Last Supper - known as the Cenacle - because it is also said to house King David’s tomb. They believe Christians should not hold religious services, as Pope Francis plans to do on Sunday, so close to a Jewish holy site, and they worry that Israel will turn the Cenacle over to the Vatican during the Pope’s visit, according to reports. Jerusalem's five most contested sites On Wednesday, Israeli police issued restraining orders on several right-wing Jewish activists, according to The New York Times, ordering them to stay away from the Pope during his visit. Rabbi David Rosen, international director for interreligious affairs at the American Jewish Congress, told CNN that the troublemakers are fringe figures who “don’t deserve anything like the attention they’ve gotten.” “The vast majority of Israelis are looking forward to the Pope’s visit, if they’re even aware of it yet,” said Rosen, who is in Jerusalem to participate in papal events. The rabbi said he is slightly chagrined, though, that Francis will not hold an interfaith service with Muslim and Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, as Pope Benedict XVI did in 2009. “I am personally disappointed that this opportunity to demonstrate in actions and not simply in words the possibility of bringing together Christians, Muslims and Jews is not on his schedule.” The Vatican says that, because the Pope is traveling with Rabbi Skorka and Sheikh Abboud, the whole trip is essentially an interfaith gathering. 5. Muslims view Francis as a welcome change. Pope Benedict XVI didn’t have the best relationship with Muslims, said Georgetown's Esposito, who is traveling to Jordan to meet with Francis on Saturday. The former Pope quoted anti-Islamic remarks made by a 14th-century Christian emperor in a speech in 2006, leading to Muslim riots. Benedict apologized, but later baptized a prominent Muslim-born journalist, which some Islamic leaders called an unnecessary provocation. In contrast, one of Francis’ first interfaith steps as Pope was to wash the feet of two Muslims during a Holy Thursday ceremony in 2013, a move noted throughout the Islamic world, Esposito said. “What popes do is as symbolically important as what they say,” Esposito said, “and Muslims have been very impressed with Francis.” The Pope also called on Western nations to find a peaceful solution to Syria’s civil war, rather than use military force. On this trip to the Holy Land, Francis is expected to call for a Palestinian state, which has long been Vatican policy, but will surely upset some Israelis. That can't-please-both dilemma shows how hard it can be to navigate the Holy Land for any world leader, even one with the charisma and political acumen of Francis. Bringing a sheikh and rabbi along may help buffer the Pope from some criticism, but ultimately, all eyes will be on the man in white. (CNN's Roba Alhenawi contributed to this report.)
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Talk of gods and demons and hells and heavens, and stilling being consciously aware after your demise...well....gosh...that's just plain and utter stupid, and wishful thinking, on behalf of a young, frightened, species. Never mind all that magic nonsense, dead is dead son.
Actually there is science to suggest that consciousness does exist after life. Quantum physics also supports this...
Chemistry and biology are far more complex than you give them credit for.....
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98447
THE ZIONIST TERRORIST JEWS WILL TRY TO DISRUPT THE VISIT OF POPE TO THE BIRTH PLACE OF PROPHET JESUS CHRIST & THE YANKEE CHRISTIAN SLAVES OF JEWS WILL SUPPORT THEM SHAME SHAME
...unless you understand that EVERY little fairy tale of gods and afterlives, approximately 22,000 of such stories/myths/tales/religions, are ALL made up, FICTIONAL!!!
{palm slap the size of Idaho}
the pope hasn't actually accomplished anything.
he's said a few flowery words, but what has he done?
he hasn't changed church doctrine or dogma.
being g.ay is still a ticket to hell, according to the vatican,
women still can't be leaders in the church,
this pope has done exactly what the last pope did about the child molestation problem - nothing.
in fact, the church just got slammed by the UN human rights committee for doing nothing about pedo-priests.
the church still moves them to different diocese and pretends nothing happened.
the pope could issue an order that the church will help with investigations instead of hindering them,
they could release the names of known molesters in their ranks,
they could help prosecutors put these monsters in prison instead of protecting them.
they could help the victims instead of the perpetrators.
but they don't.
so what has the pope done to deserve Time's man of the year and other accolades?
Most atheists are closer than they think to believing in God. I think of the atheists I know who are so dedicated to living a life of love, kindness, and empathy that if it were scientifically proven tomorrow that these things were neither beneficial to the individual nor to society, my guess is that they would still live lives of love, kindness, and empathy. They believe that if these things are not good and true, then nothing is good and true—that in some ways they’re more real than reality. And, as I’ve found, when you embrace that realization, you’ve had your first encounter with God.
Wrong place. Please delete.
Most theists are closer than they think to no believing in God. I think of the theists I know who are so dedicated to living a life of love, kindness, and empathy that if it were theocratically proven tomorrow that these things were neither beneficial to the individual nor to society, my guess is that they would still live lives of love, kindness, and empathy. They believe that if these things are not good and true, then nothing is good and true—that in some ways they’re more real than reality. And, as I've found, when you embrace that realization, you've had your first encounter with humanism.
No God is ever needed to be good or happy. The time to be happy is now, the place to be happy is here, the way to be happy is to make others so.
actually, it goes to show you can lead a good life without god. god is unnecessary to the equation. i'd say you're closer to realizing you don't need belief in a deity that doesn't exist in order to be a good person.
Please define 'good life'.
thegospelisthepowerofgod,
The "good life" could be actually practicing the Golden Rule rather than just preaching it like so many Christian hypocrites do.
as Will mentioned above, leading a life guided by love, empathy and kindness would qualify, imo. helping others when you are able. we could wax philosophical and go into a much deeper definition of "good"...
Confucius articulated the Golden Rule long before Christianity was born.
Bootyfunk,
What if Hitler thought the 'logos life" was murdering millions of people. On atheism, why would he be wrong?
Sorry for the typo,
Bootyfunk,
What if Hitler thought the ‘good life” was murdering millions of people. On atheism, why would he be wrong?
Ummm, exactly which god would you be referencing? I certainly do not want to worship the wrong god thereby upsetting the real god. There are just so many to choose from, how does one know which is the correct one? I am going to venture a guess and assume that your god is the one the is the real god, why should I believe you?
Sorry those things have been part of human nature since we crawled out of the primordial ooze and evolved, around long before we invented gods and will be around long after people drop the silly belief in gods.
Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !!!
Where do morals come from?
By Kelly Murray, CNN
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments
Gravity is not up for debate !
BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !
Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet
Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm
Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.
The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?
The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species
Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm
April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |
May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |
Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm
And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !
From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml
the wrong path is Adam and Eve !
Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought
Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm
No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US
Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.
No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !
Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History
Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm
Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4
Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...
Good stuff !
The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !
Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle
Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm
For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !
Where do morals come from?
By Kelly Murray, CNN
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/
Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.
Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’
Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
bears his name as the “God particle.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/
Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/
Science
Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/
April 7th, 2012
08:32 PM ET
The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915
Make sure to read comments
April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |
Breaking News
NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html
NASA: Mars could have supported life
Star Dust we is .
It's depressing to see atheists attacking Will, a believer who seems to be one of the more intelligent and open-minded Christians on here and one who will actually admit that the Bible contains some nonsense.
I feel sorry for 'scientists" who try to hold on to religion. It must be an excruciating contradiction in their minds. Only atheists have won Nobel Prizes since 1968 – that should tell us something!
So his 10 statements about atheists/atheism is evidence of an open-minded christian? I think not!
Are any of your statements about anything evidence of an open-minded atheist? Just 1? I think not! There are 2 kinds of atheists – closed-minded atheists and open-minded atheists. observer = open-minded atheist (thank you)...hotairace = closed-minded atheist
Nobody, not even myself, claimed I was open- or close-minded. Perhaps you should apologize for or defend your posts rather than deflecting by attacking me. Dumbazz, delusional believer.
You attacked me first?
Will,
Are you posting under several different screen names (each with slightly different takes & personalities)?
Your 10 points predates any comments I directed your way, Willy Dunbazz.
Will,
I am an open-minded (or try hard to be) agnostic.
I try to.
will, it works like this:
no one can prove a negative.
no one can prove god doesn't exist.
no one can prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist either.
no one can prove my left nut isn't god.
but there is zero proof for a god of any kind.
so though one can't prove god doesn't exist,
it is so highly unlikely that it's not worth serious consideration.
so when an atheist says, "there is no god,"
it's similar to saying, "there is no tooth fairy."
can you really say for certainty there is no tooth fairy? can you prove it?
no.
is it seriously worth considering?
no.
same thing applies to deities.
until there is some evidence, god/goddess(s) aren't worth serious consideration.
Bootyfunk,
"no one can prove a negative."
This is an incorrect statement that I have heard from skeptics on multiple occasions. The fact is is that you CAN prove a negative. For example, we can prove that there were no Muslims in the U.S. senate in 2008. We can prove that Mitt Romney is not the U.S. President. The list goes on.
The Bible is full of 'nonsenses'. I can even give you Bible verse to proof it:
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)
The hordcore atheist is just the parallel to the religious nut. Since both claim to know with certainty something with no evidence.
Most atheists are closer than they think to believing in God. I think of the atheists I know who are so dedicated to living a life of love, kindness, and empathy that if it were scientifically proven tomorrow that these things were neither beneficial to the individual nor to society, my guess is that they would still live lives of love, kindness, and empathy. They believe that if these things are not good and true, then nothing is good and true—that in some ways they’re more real than reality. And, as I’ve found, when you embrace that realization, you’ve had your first encounter with God.
"and empathy that if it were scientifically proven tomorrow that these things were neither beneficial to the individual nor to society"
Except that they can be proven to be beneficial to both the individual and to society....and that makes your point moot.
Bullsh!t. All the atheists I know simply do not believe there are any gods. They don't claim there are none. Why do you post such crap? Why do you lie?
Those are agnostics if they simply do not believe.
Hordcore atheists are the ones that flood the posting section of articles on the Pope with insults and swear words.
Waa! Poor Pope-A-Dope! Protector of the phony faith and child abusers.
Agnostic/Gnostic=define lack of knowledge or knowledge
Atheist/Theist=define disbelief or belief in a god or gods
You can be an Agnostic Atheist or a Gnostic Atheist and vice versus for Theist.
Maybe pick up a dictionary and learn to define things.
Come on people. It's 2014 yo. Screw the awful pope and his abuser cronies and fuck your stupid Jesus stories already.
Amen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeedE8vH1FQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6aDoOzYN-U&feature=youtu.be
Google for videos or transcripts of debates between Mr. Zarcharias and an atheist – any atheist. You will not find any.
2 of my agnostic friends began to believe in God after watching this. I played it to 1 atheist friend and he got mad and wouldn't watch it after the 10:30 mark.
More like the 11:30 mark. He said the guy wasn't a "real" atheist. I guess my friend was a "real" atheist. LOL
I suspect that none of your "friends" are actually real.
I watched the whole thing. He is a decent reader of other peoples work and lyrics. He didn't say a single substantive thing in the entire near 45 minutes. All he had to offer was philosophical conjecture where he concludes one cannot be moral without God and claims anyone doing any horrible things whether in the name of Hindu, Muslim or Christianity are really atheists and those who reject God like Stalin raising his fist to the heavens on his death bed are also really atheists. So he takes credit for all the wondrous progress of the 20th century and labels it Christian in origin while pinning all the worlds ills on non-believers. It was tiresome to listen to but did not change my belief one iota. Maybe if he had an actual point to make with real evidence and science backing it up but just claiming humanism cannot be a true defender of morality because he doesn't think it can isn't much of an argument. And his take on Pascals wager is laughable.
Neverbeenhappier,
I'm happy to see that you took the time to watch the video. Maybe since you've done this, you'd be willing to watch a debate on YouTube between Bart Ehrman and Michael Licona concerning Jesus rising from the dead.
go peddle your lies somewhere else.
Gee, where do you want me to talk about it? Not the CNN religion blog? Where then? Is this site only for pssy atheists with no life?
Why are there so many people on this site that think atheist=scientist?
It suggests that religious = uneducated, which I hope is not true as I have 9 years of higher education in science (BSc, MSc, PhD: biology – yes I believe in evolution) but I am a THEIST. Please, get an education about these things.. the atheists usually have the decency of quoting the bible verses, can't you reference proper scientific sources?
99% of scientists believe in evolution. 99% of scientists and geologists believe "flood geology" is a pseudoscience as there is no actual evidence of a global flood. Many scientists are religion as none of that rules out gods/God, but they certainly don't believe in Santa, a 6000 year old earth or any sort of global flood as claimed in Genesis.
Many scientists are religious...
Genesis was never intended to be a science story. I know some try to make it into one. But it doesn't take too much to figure that out. Not sure why some atheists and some Christians have trouble figuring that out.
If you admit there was no actual Adam and Eve....where did the fallen world come from?
Will,
So why doesn't the Bible give a warning to gullible readers that Genesis is just a fairy tale? So there was talking serpent and no original sin.
Where doe it say it is a science manual? There is a talking snake, for crying out loud!
The Genesis story was never meant to tell us how the world was created. It is rather a masterful treatise for informing us who created this floating orb in its magnificent universe. From the story, we learn that God appreciates beauty, design and order over ugliness, nonsense and chaos. One doesn’t have to tread far into Scripture before discovering that humans were created for relationship with God and one another. These convictions of faith are hardly at the heart of scientific inquiry.
There was a first man and a first woman – there had to be, right? And we are living with the consequences of their and all their ancestors mistakes.
It’s hard to believe that any ancient writer would have penned the Genesis story for the sake of recording good science. If that was the author’s intent, he (or they) failed miserably.
Willy, get back to us when you dumbazz, delusional believer finally decide if genesis is meant to be taken literally or not.
hotairace
Why so mean?
"There was a first man and a first woman – there had to be, right?"
No that is a fallacy. Science have already proven there was no first man and woman.
Think of it like the evolution of language. Italian and French and Spanish all derived from Latin. Was there a first person that spoke French? No it slowly evolved into the language we know today over time. Same with human evolution.
Mean? That wasn't mean. Why are you so sensitive?
Oh, sorry. As a child were you taught calling someone a "dumbazz" is ok?
Science has not proven there was no first man and woman.
My childhood was a long time ago, back in the days when nice people didn't talk about s3x or religion. I've evolved since then and don't have to tolerate dumbazz, delusional believers who post crap. OK, I don't have to tolerate dumbazz, delusional believers, whether they post crap or not.
I don't want to be like you. Bitter old man.
Adam and Eve were not the first human beings that God created.
Will,
Genesis tells us that we would have lived forever, but that can't happen because a woman created from a man's rib was talked into trying to gain knowledge by a lying, talking snake. So now we can't live forever.
And dumbazz, delusional believers have not proven anything about their dumbazz, delusional beliefs even though the onus is on them to provide support for their dumbazz, delusional claims. Dumbazz!
"Science has not proven there was no first man and woman."
Yes they have actually. Genetics alone has proven that. Just because you are not knowledgable of the evidence does not mean it hasn't been proven.
I'm not bitter at all. Your Kreskin act is not very good.
You sound bitter. You sound mean. But you say you are not. Are you going to call me more names and make more disparaging remarks?
Are you going to continue to post bullsh!t about atheists?
Are you an atheist or an agnostic?
Why do you ask? Is it ok to post sh!t about one and not the other?
That is what people studying science suggests, but it hasn't proven that. We don't know everything there is to know about genetics. Right now it appears as a very, very compelling theory. But no scientist is saying it proves anything undisputed like you suggest.
Willy Dumbazz, there is more evidence for evolution than there is for your alleged but never proven god, if for no other reason there is no actual evidence for your imaginary friend. If you can believe in an unproven god without any evidence, you should have no problem accepting evolution.
I believe God used evolution in his creation. He still does, as he is still creating. Hence – God the Maker (still making)
Will,
You couldn't be more wrong. Don't believe me? Go to your local university and speak to the experts. Don't just stop at one either, talk to a lot of them...from all over the world. Do the research, put some effort into it. There is zero evidence that humans came from 1 man and 1 woman. Did you know many humans have Neaderthal DNA?
Yes I do know that about human beings. And I have spoken with many experts. None have mad a claim of such certainty as you have. None. I work with people all the time in various science fields. We have fascinating discussions.
So you accept that man is descendant from a common ancestor shard with apes?
That is what the evidence suggests.
Will,
Humans genetic code is far too diverse to come from 1 man and 1 woman.
I didn't ask you what the evidence suggests, I asked you what you accept, what you believe. Are your dumbazz, delusional god beliefs getting in the way of answering a science related question?
I don't know. Data suggests life has and is evolving.
So you won't clearly state that you accept a basic tenet of evolution but you claim to believe in evolution? I smell bullsh!t. . .
I said I don't know. Life appears to be evolving, including human beings. I'm not required to believe anything other than that. It appears very likely. But I don't know with certainty.
Is your belief in your alleged but never proven gods any stronger than your washy-washy belief in evolution?
I have faith in God. I have faith in evolution. Neither have been proven to 100% be true.
Will,
Is there even 1 piece of scientific evidence that suggests humans came from 1 man and 1 woman? If you don't know...ask the experts you say you talk to...and ask that specific question.
I believe we can trace everyone to 1 woman.
Who must have fornicated with multiple men?
"I believe we can trace everyone to 1 woman."
I know that is what you "believe". I asked for 1 piece of evidence that supports that belief. Why do you believe it?
Will, an honest question. As an evolutionary theist, how do you reconcile the fossil record with Darwinian evolution? Wouldn't you agree that there should be millions of transitional fossils? When you say you believe in evolution, are you referring to micro and macroevolution?
Every single fossil is a trasitional fossil. Your argument is inane.
That is a terrible argument. It's a joke really. Do you know what a 'transitional fossil' is? "Darwin described the perceived lack of transitional fossils as, "...the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory," but explained it by relating it to the extreme imperfection of the geological record.[2]" (from Wikipedia)
Have you ever looked at the progression of Whale fossils? There are whales found with hind legs that served no pupose. The small legs were usless. You wouldn't call that a transitional fossil?
Did the study of evolution die in 1882?
Blessed,
Please cite the whale fossil or fossils you are referring to. Also, there should be millions of transitional fossils (for example showing the evolution in-between bat and whale) if Darwinian Evolution were true.
Akira,
For many atheists, I suspect that evolution is the only game in town. There is no other option so it must be affirmed at all cost.
Just one example of many.
http://bio1151.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/ch22/transitional.html
Nowhere does science say whales evolved from bats.
And I don't need to believe evolution to reject your myth. You see even if you were ever able to completely disprove evolution...that would not make your myth true. You would have to prove it with evidence...something your religion is incapable of doing.
"Just one example of many.
http://bio1151.nicerweb.com/Locked/media/ch22/transitional.html"
Where are some real fossil support instead of drawings or artistic renderings?
"Nowhere does science say whales evolved from bats."
Recent evolutionary belief was (may still be) that bats and whales are linked.
"And I don’t need to believe evolution to reject your myth. You see even if you were ever able to completely disprove evolution…that would not make your myth true."
I do believe that disproving evolution does not automatically prove Christianity true.
"You would have to prove it with evidence…something your religion is incapable of doing."
Unfortunately, you are severely wrong on this. The consequences are eternal.
***Where are some real fossil support instead of drawings or artistic renderings?***
The fossils can be found with a little research. The names and descriptions are there and you can track them to the place they are kept. I am not going to do the work for you. Don't be lazy.
***Recent evolutionary belief was (may still be) that bats and whales are linked.***
They are linked through a common ancestor, one does not come from the other. If you want to know what that ancestor is, do some research, go ask a palentologists...or a biologist....or anyone else in a related field.
***I do believe that disproving evolution does not automatically prove Christianity true.***
Well good, that is a start.
***Unfortunately, you are severely wrong on this. The consequences are eternal.***
The only thing that statement proves is you needed to resort to a proxy threat. Using fear to make you point just shows how weak your argument is.
"The fossils can be found with a little research. The names and descriptions are there and you can track them to the place they are kept. I am not going to do the work for you. Don’t be lazy."
You initiated the whale fossil conversation. I'm just asking for one fossil.
***Recent evolutionary belief was (may still be) that bats and whales are linked.***
What are the transitional fossils to support the evolution?
"The only thing that statement proves is you needed to resort to a proxy threat. Using fear to make you point just shows how weak your argument is."
It was a truth statement. The consequences really are eternal. Wouldn't you agree?
***You initiated the whale fossil conversation. I'm just asking for one fossil.***
And I gave you one. It is named and catagorized. If you want to see it in person do the work. That isn't a "me" problem. That is a "you" problem.
***What are the transitional fossils to support the evolution?***
The information is out there. I am not doing the work for you. Not that it would matter if I did....Ken Ham is a moron and admitted there is no evidence that would ever change his mind on the issue of creationism. I am guessing you wouldn't change your either.
***It was a truth statement. The consequences really are eternal. Wouldn't you agree?***
Truth is what can be demonstrated to conform to reality. The idea of "eternal consequences" does not fit the definition of "truth". It was a "statement" so you are only half right.
6 year old asking parent "Dad, where do we come from and where do we go after we die?"
"Well you see son, a magical wizard in the sky created this planet just for us to be born, live and die and then we get to go up in the sky and float around in the heavens in eternal bliss!"
6 year old "You coulda just said you don't know, i'm not 4 anymore you know..."
What typically actually happens:
"I don't know.
But this is what Jesus is recorded as saying about it..."
Nothing a desert dweller called jesus was recorded. It's all well after the fact hearsay.
That IS what typically happens if you have grown up in a christian household. Lying to children is precisely what perpetuates these types of beliefs. There is no evidence to support any sort of life/consciousness after the cessation of the functioning brain.
traditions, customs, levitical law, mans law, the Commandments, grace, salvation, repentance, Faith, etc... That is what happens when you don't partake of the root to which we have been grafted.
But even so it is really very simple. If you think that "Christ" came to put and end to the law so you can live in sin and inherit the coming Kingdom without repentance then you are lost.
Messiah didn't come to die so you can continue in sin. He came as an example of how to live Lawfully so that through His example and Faith in Him we could live righteously. He didn't say do what you want and you will be saved. Without faith you cannot keep the law, without repentance from sin you have no salvation, sin IS lawlessness and sinners do not inherit the Kingdom.
I can't go over every false doctrine or point out every verse of Scripture to you. But I will take your last quote to make the point again.
"Galatians 3:24-25 says we are no longer under a schoolmaster(meaning the law, which served as a schoolmaster)."
When you go to school to learn you don't discard what you have learned when you graduate. In fact you live by what you have learned and no longer need the teacher. In other words when you learn the law then you are no longer under the law because you are now lawful.
If you hate GOD's Law, on the other hand, then you do not love Him and you will reap the reward of a sinful servant. If you truly had GOD's love you would love His Law and you would know what His love is.
1Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." Deu_6:5 "And thou shalt love the Yahwh thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."
Works are a product of our Faith. Keeping His Law shows we have Faith in Him. Keeping pagan holidays and doctrines proves you don't know Him and are more interested in pleasing the flesh.
aaaahhh, the musings of a cult addled mind ...
I suspect NewSalem would like to accuse others of being witches and slaughter them, just as the citizens of old Salem did. This poor person did not escape the gravitational pull of the 1700s.
or encourage others to slaughter witches for him. Maybe NewSalem is Scott Lively.
Ok, so I’m sure all the “posters” (Christian and Athiest … even Agnostic) have heard about Heaven and the ground rules He has set to be able to spend eternity with Him there. That being said, I have a statement/question directed to the Athiest community … So, let’s suppose that YOU are right. Oky doky. That means I got nothing to do but … die, rot, end of story. BUT!! What if we Christians, living the best we can to make it home to Him are right? Are you sure you’re okay with where that’s gonna leave you? Just sayin. BTW, I believe we are all His children … ALL OF US … and I think no less of you as a brother/sister than I do of my Christian brothers and sisters. It is YOUR choice … and I’m cool with that. Amen? (hehe … weak pun intended)! God Bless! (Oop! Did it again!)!
Your question is a fallacy. Belief in a god is not a choice.
I have a question for you.
Why should what a person believes regarding a god be rewarded or punished? Do you really think that is ethical or moral?
traditions, customs, levitical law, mans law, the Commandments, grace, salvation, repentance, Faith, etc... That is what happens when you don't partake of the root to which we have been grafted.
But even so it is really very simple. If you think that "Christ" came to put and end to the law so you can live in sin and inherit the coming Kingdom without repentance then you are lost.
Messiah didn't come to die so you can continue in sin. He came as an example of how to live Lawfully so that through His example and Faith in Him we could live righteously. He didn't say do what you want and you will be saved. Without faith you cannot keep the law, without repentance from sin you have no salvation, sin IS lawlessness and sinners do not inherit the Kingdom.
I can't go over every false doctrine or point out every verse of Scripture to you. But I will take your last quote to make the point again.
"Galatians 3:24-25 says we are no longer under a schoolmaster(meaning the law, which served as a schoolmaster)."
When you go to school to learn you don't discard what you have learned when you graduate. In fact you live by what you have learned and no longer need the teacher. In other words when you learn the law then you are no longer under the law because you are now lawful.
If you hate GOD's Law, on the other hand, then you do not love Him and you will reap the reward of a sinful servant. If you truly had GOD's love you would love His Law and you would know what His love is.
1Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." Deu_6:5 "And thou shalt love the Yahwh thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."
Works are a product of our Faith. Keeping His Law shows we have Faith in Him. Keeping pagan holidays and doctrines proves you don't know Him and are more interested in pleasing the flesh.
None of that is coherent or responds to my question.
What a person believes regarding God will not be rewarded or punished. What is the consequence of living in a fallen world with a God who is just?
I had nothing to do with living in a "fallen world".
Not that I believe any of that myth but I point this out for arguments sake.
No problem. We will all die. The Bible makes that very clear. If you want to live on there is a chance to be resurrected. If you don't have that desire – death it is. That's fine.
Blessed,
Adam acted as a proxy for mankind. Adam acted as you would have acted in that he disobeyed God.
Will,
Yes we will all die, regardless of what the Bible says. But you did not address the question...you sidestepped it.
TF,
I don't want Adam and Eve to "act as my proxy" I would never choose that. And forcing it on me violates my free will...something you christians are always using to justify your god's lack of action.
"I don’t want Adam and Eve to “act as my proxy” I would never choose that."
Your choosing to rebel now.
"Your choosing to rebel now."
That is nonsense. I would have to believe your myth to rebel against it.
"That is nonsense. I would have to believe your myth to rebel against it."
No you don't. You don't have to believe it to be in rebellion against God. You make the mistake of thinking that God's existence is dependent on whether you believe He is real. He exists regardless of whether you believe He does.
Whether god exists does not matter. I can't rebel against something I don't believe. That isn't rebellion.
"That means I got nothing to do but … die, rot, end of story. " Right, because you obviously don't have any family, loved ones or thoughts of helping humanity solve some of it's most pressing problems. No point living another minute if you don't get to have an eternity in your cloudy puffy palace. Do you really have that little a brain and such a small imagination? Wow. I mean, just wow.
I live my life and will die just like you.
I was told as a child to try and leave any room cleaner than I entered it. I have attempted to live by that code and want to leave this world better than when I entered it. So far many freedoms have been achieved since my birth and at least here in America I was able to vote for some of them. Equal rights for all races and genders was just the start and we will soon achieve equal status for our gay friends. Hopefully our freedoms will spread throughout the world and someday we may eliminate laws against blasphemy and other blue laws created solely to divide and separate humans.
I know one day the sickness of sitting around waiting to be saved by some invisible spirit will fade and humanity will have to rise up to save themselves and enter into a new area of space exploration and even colonization of other worlds. I doubt my daughter will live to see us becoming the United Federation of Planets, but maybe my granddaughter or grandson. What a wonderful place this might be if we didn't have half the planet silently praying for God to come and destroy it. Try fixing it you lazy sycophants.
I wasn't taught to live that way. As a child – my parents weren't available for me. I wasn't given a code. You are lucky. I actually had atheist parents (dad was, mom died when I was young).
When I get sick, I don't sit around waiting to be saved by some invisible spirit. I go to a hospital or a doctor. That is what my church tells me to do. We have a world-class doctor that goes to our church. He is very smart.
When you were a kid were you taught to call others: lazy sycophants?
I was taught to always speak truth to power no matter the consequences. What I see in religion are billions of people who think they already have a ticket off this rock so don't really give a damn about the planet or others. They have no investment in this planets future as they think it's already past the point of no return as their God seems to prefer just wiping his creations out instead of informing them personally of his existence. I guess it's just more fun for him that way. I call you lazy sycophants because that is what you are if you are sitting on your hands waiting for God to come fix the worlds problems.
Post by 'Will' presents a form of the flawed argument commonly known as Pascal's Wager.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
TEN REASONS I’M NOT AN ATHEIST (AND NEVER WILL BE)
1.- I shall not be an atheist because something doesn't come from nothing.
2.- I shall not be an atheist because there is no way such harmony, order and perfection could exist in the universe without an intelligent mind behind it all.
3.- I shall not be an atheist because a mere chance explosion cannot explain how the structure of my brain is able to understand the laws pertaining to the universe's harmony, order and perfection.
4.- I shall not be an atheist because I am much more than a rational bio-chemical machine. I am full of love, desire and hope. And I also recognize beauty when I see it.
5.- I shall not be an atheist because I have a moral conscience. I can tell the difference between good and evil. I believe in objective moral values.
6.- I shall not be an atheist because every tribe and tongue on the face of the earth has a religious consciousness and the idea of a transcendent (or supreme) something or someone.
7.- I shall not be an atheist because I whole heartedly believe my life has a purpose and a meaning.
8.- I shall not be an atheist because although I am imperfect, I have the idea of an insuperable perfect being within me. Such a sublime concept cannot stem from little old me.
9.- I shall not be an atheist because the fruits of practical atheism are- for the most part- ugly, wicked and downright perverted. And much of intellectual atheism is nothing more than an exercise in insoluble contradiction(s).
10.- I shall not be an atheist because the Holy Spirit abides within me. I know God's alive. I spoke to Him only five minutes ago.
Your post should be ti.tled
"10 fallacious arguments I use to rationalize my religious belief".
You forgot #11. I shall not be an atheist because I don't like how I feel on my medication and the world just seems so much prettier when I think it was all made for me, mwahaha mwahahaha...
From: Digital Cuttlefish
Oooh, Look! A Non-Atheist
Manifesto!
Uncategorized by Cuttlefish
"My aggregator is having fun with me. It doesn’t often link to the Christian Post iPost section, but this one is special."
(This is making the rounds on FB as well...Cuttlefish's answers are in quotes.)
TEN REASONS I’M NOT AN ATHEIST (AND NEVER WILL BE)
Here it is, beloved folks! The world’s first ever non-atheist manifesto! Feel free to spread it online to as many people as you like. Just click “share” on the button below and the article will pop up on your page. Blessings…!
"The first ever! (Excluding every religious manifesto ever, of course. I think maybe he means “anti-atheist”, and even there he may be a few generations late. Or maybe he means his first non-atheist manifesto… anyway, he’s new to the game, so maybe it’s something we’ve never seen before.)"
1.- I shall not be an atheist because something doesn’t come from nothing.
"I look forward to his explanation of where God came from. I also wonder which definition of “nothing” he is using. It matters."
2.- I shall not be an atheist because there is no way such harmony, order and perfection could exist in the universe without an intelligent mind behind it all.
"He must be referring to multi-host parasites. It is indeed elegant, how a single organism can infect fish, birds, and snails in turn, or snails, ants, and sheep. It truly is a beautiful harmony. Of course, he could also be talking about the harmony, order, and perfection of a universe that is utterly hostile to us with the exception of less than half of one small planet, an infinitesimal fraction of the known. Beautiful in its rarity, but a cruel beauty."
3.- I shall not be an atheist because a mere chance explosion cannot explain how the structure of my brain is able to understand the laws pertaining to the universe’s harmony, order and perfection.
"He’s absolutely right, there. Fortunately, no atheist has ever claimed this, ever. And I would argue that, without an understanding of natural selection (one of many important intermediates between the big bang and an understanding brain), his brain does not in truth understand the laws pertaining to the universe’s perceived order."
4.- I shall not be an atheist because I am much more than a rational bio-chemical machine. I am full of love, desire and hope. And I also recognize beauty when I see it.
"Does he really think atheists do not feel love, desire, and hope? Does he really think we don’t recognize beauty? As an evolved animal, I will allow that I am a bit more elegant than any machine any human ever made, but “evolution is smarter than you are“, so this is to be expected."
5.- I shall not be an atheist because I have a moral conscience. I can tell the difference between good and evil. I believe in objective moral values.
"A moral conscience is so important to humankind that we created religions just to support it. And while I believe that the writer believes in objective moral values, so do many others whose objective moral values disagree with his."
6.- I shall not be an atheist because every tribe and tongue on the face of the earth has a religious consciousness and the idea of a transcendent (or supreme) something or someone.
"The fact that their religious consciousnesses disagree with one another to the point of conflict is only relevant when arguing against each other–when arguing against atheists, you all worship the same god."
7.- I shall not be an atheist because I whole heartedly believe my life has a purpose and a meaning.
"If your life would be meaningless without a god, I humbly suggest you are doing it wrong. My life has purpose and meaning as well–it just does not have a god."
8.- I shall not be an atheist because although I am imperfect, I have the idea of an insuperable perfect being within me. Such a sublime concept cannot stem from little old me.
"How do you know? And how do you know? If you are imperfect, how is it possible to know that the insuperable perfect being within you is not an illusion, and imperfect after all? And how, as an imperfect being, can you possibly know that it is impossible for you to believe this illusion? Sounds like wishful thinking to me."
9.- I shall not be an atheist because the fruits of practical atheism are- for the most part- ugly, wicked and downright perverted. And much of intellectual atheism is nothing more than an exercise in insoluble contradiction(s).
"Well, yeah, I am just an accident. I don’t claim any privileged revealed information, like religions often do. But, frankly, there are moral imperatives because I am an atheist. But they do require us to think for ourselves."
10.- I shall not be an atheist because the Holy Spirit abides within me. I know God’s alive. I spoke to Him only five minutes ago.
"To him, not with him? I spoke to my dog, but he did not speak back. Well, a bit, but I don’t speak dog. It is not abnormal, even in this modern day, to speak to (or with) God. What would be remarkable, though, would be if all those who claim to speak to God actually agreed on His message. We’d only need one religion! Gee… I wonder which one?
It's sad that this Will is not only dickish, he's a dickish plagiarist
So basically, Will, you believe in god because you have preconceived notions about the universe and will not let fact and truth dissuade you from those beliefs. It is your right to choose ignorance. Just don't expect to be praised for choosing ignorance.
TEN REASONS I’M NOT AN ATHEIST (AND NEVER WILL BE)
1.- I shall not be an atheist because something doesn't come from nothing.
– Fail. Atheism makes no such claim.
2.- I shall not be an atheist because there is no way such harmony, order and perfection could exist in the universe without an intelligent mind behind it all.
– Fail. No evidence to support your claim.
3.- I shall not be an atheist because a mere chance explosion cannot explain how the structure of my brain is able to understand the laws pertaining to the universe's harmony, order and perfection.
– Fail. Atheism makes no such claim.
4.- I shall not be an atheist because I am much more than a rational bio-chemical machine. I am full of love, desire and hope. And I also recognize beauty when I see it.
– Fail. Atheists share these emotions and observations.
5.- I shall not be an atheist because I have a moral conscience. I can tell the difference between good and evil. I believe in objective moral values.
– Fail. Atheists have a moral conscience, no gods required.
6.- I shall not be an atheist because every tribe and tongue on the face of the earth has a religious consciousness and the idea of a transcendent (or supreme) something or someone.
– Fail. You cannot possibly prove that *every* tribe believes as you have alleged.
7.- I shall not be an atheist because I whole heartedly believe my life has a purpose and a meaning.
– Fail. Atheists believe life has a purpose and a meaning.
8.- I shall not be an atheist because although I am imperfect, I have the idea of an insuperable perfect being within me. Such a sublime concept cannot stem from little old me.
– Fail. Sure you can, just like men made up The Bullsh!t in The Babble.
9.- I shall not be an atheist because the fruits of practical atheism are- for the most part- ugly, wicked and downright perverted. And much of intellectual atheism is nothing more than an exercise in insoluble contradiction(s).
– Fail. Atheists are no more perverted than the average delusional believer and in fact are under-represented in prison populations.
10.- I shall not be an atheist because the Holy Spirit abides within me. I know God's alive. I spoke to Him only five minutes ago.
-Fail. You know no such thing. Your are pretending to know things you do not.
Now, fuck off!
I would just like to respond to #1. Does your god EXIST? If yes than is he not SOMETHING? If he is something than by your own argument he could not have come from nothing. Correct? Simple, basic, logic.
Actually, one of the best posts I have seen by a believer on this site in ages. Sure as hell beats the nauseating garbage spewed out by Rainer Brandelin, Dalahast, Salero21, Believerfred, KermitforJC etc.
That said....
1.- I shall not be an atheist because something doesn't come from nothing.
Well, fortunately, only the believers think atheists think this. I know of no atheist that does. The Universe may have always existed, may be one of an infinite number of Universes in a multiverse and/or may be in one of and infinite number of expansions and regressions (although current data is somewhat against this possibility, although it cannot be ruled out). BUT, what we do not do is assume that because we do not know the answers to all of these questions, the Judeo-Christian god was behind the whole thing (and then allege that he came from nothing thereby breaching the very assumption we used to posit his existence in the first place). If something cannot come from nothing, where does this god come from? “God was always there right? Which means the Universe could well have been “always there” without the need for this unnecessary add on.
No, dressing up “I don’t know” as the Judeo-Christian god gets one nowhere.
2.- I shall not be an atheist because there is no way such harmony, order and perfection could exist in the universe without an intelligent mind behind it all.
Why not? Why does one assume that harmony and order cannot be the natural state of the Universe. Secondly, would not a god be more complex and fine tuned than any Universe it created, thereby necessitating, by this logic, that God was itself created. As with point one above, one just ends up in an infinite regression of gods by positing a god from order.
3.- I shall not be an atheist because a mere chance explosion cannot explain how the structure of my brain is able to understand the laws pertaining to the universe's harmony, order and perfection.
The ignorance of the religious mind is showing through here. No cosmologist thinks it is all one big accident. The gradual accretion of complex chemicals on planets and their gradual increasing complexity to the point of life, and later, intelligent, life, may well be a perfectly natural consequence of the Universe, given its size and age.
4.- I shall not be an atheist because I am much more than a rational bio-chemical machine. I am full of love, desire and hope. And I also recognize beauty when I see it.
I don’t even know what point this is meant to make.
5.- I shall not be an atheist because I have a moral conscience. I can tell the difference between good and evil. I believe in objective moral values.
All morality is subjective. We call it “objective” when a large majority of us agree with it. That doesn’t mean there is a god behind it, it just means that it certain morality is popular. Most of today’s “objective” morality is in direct conflict with that exhibited and promoted in the Bible, such that, if there were a god based on “objective morality,” he would not be the Judeo-Christian god.
6.- I shall not be an atheist because every tribe and tongue on the face of the earth has a religious consciousness and the idea of a transcendent (or supreme) something or someone.
Ah, no they don’t. Secondly, all religions are inconsistent. Theravada Buddhists don’t believe in a superior being, Hindus believe in reincarnation, New Guinea Highlanders believe in witches and those crazy Christians believe the creator of the entire Universe knocked up a Greco-Roman Jewish virgin so he could give birth to himself, then sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the original sin of a couple we now all know never existed.
Until a few hundred year ago, virtually everybody on Earth thought the planet was flat. That did not make it so. Gods cannot be elected into existence by popular opinion.
7.- I shall not be an atheist because I whole heartedly believe my life has a purpose and a meaning.
Well, good for you. So do I believe my life has a purpose and meaning, but it is not to die and then pretend I will live happily for ever afterwards. That makes no sense to me, nor am I arrogant enough to think the entire cosmos, including a number of after death kingdoms, were all designed with me in mind. That takes a huge ego.
8.- I shall not be an atheist because although I am imperfect, I have the idea of an insuperable perfect being within me. Such a sublime concept cannot stem from little old me.
Ah, yes it can. It is a very simple concept to make up. All religions and cults of personality do it. Your average uneducated North Korean thinks the “Great Leader” Kim Jong Il was an insuperable perfect being
9.- I shall not be an atheist because the fruits of practical atheism are- for the most part- ugly, wicked and downright perverted. And much of intellectual atheism is nothing more than an exercise in insoluble contradiction(s).
Such as…..? Please name one of these contradictions.
10.- I shall not be an atheist because the Holy Spirit abides within me. I know God's alive. I spoke to Him only five minutes ago.
Yeah, Charles Manson thought that too, as did David Koresh. Jim Jones regularly spoke with Jesus and Mark Chapman thought he was Holden Caulfield when he shot John Lennon. People believe they hear the voices of devils that torment them, of the CIA, of angels, gods, demons and space aliens. None of this is probative of external reality. Have you noticed that atheists DON’T hear voices. Perhaps that might tell you something.
How come some articles are written in this format?
Does it make it any easier for people to read? I sometimes feel silly reading stories that are in spaced out blurps one sentence long.
Then, for no apparent reason they throw another sentence in two spaces below.
Is it how it would be read by a T.V. Anchor? I suppose.
Fact: You do not need God to quit drinking regardless of what AA tries to convince you.
Fact: You do not need God to feel empowered and take control of your own life and actions.
Fact: You do not need God to take responsibility for your own life and actions.
Fact: You do not need God to be good to others and show compassion to your fellow humans.
Fact: You do not need God to show love, forgiveness and empathy.
Fact: You do not need Satan to blame for the things that go wrong in life.
Only sick perverts with no self control would need God or the pope looking over their shoulders so they behave. And even more sick are those that need to be bribed with promises of heavenly rewards to illicit good behavior.
Clarity,
Answer a few questions for me if you would.
1. How many lies would you say you’ve told in your life?
2. Have you ever stolen anything regardless of its value?
3. Have you ever used God’s name as a curse word? (called blasphemy)
4.have you ever looked at a woman/man lustfully?(if so, Jesus said you have committed adultery with that person in your heart.)
If you’re like me, you are a self professed lying, stealing, blaspheming adulterer at heart or some form thereof. A holy God must punish wickedness, otherwise He wouldn’t be just. Given your confession, will you be guilty or innocent? If you’re like me and everyone else on this board, you are guilty. However, God provided a way for salvation through the blood of His innocent Son who took the punishment on the cross, that we might be declared innocent. Think of it like this. You’re in a court room. you’re guilty as you’ve professed. Someone walks in and pays your fine for you. Now the judge can legally dismiss your case and let you go. This is the gospel message. What you must do is repent (turn from your sins) and follow Jesus as Lord. This following is enabled by God when He gives you new desires and a heart that wants to please God instead of the flesh.
truthfollower01,
"have you ever looked at a woman/man lustfully?(if so, Jesus said you have committed adultery with that person in your heart.)"
This is one of the most ridiculous quotes in the Bible. Since probably EVERY COUPLE looked on each other in lust before marriage, there may have NEVER been a couple marry that has not already committed adultery violating the Ten Commandments. What a joke.
"This is one of the most ridiculous quotes in the Bible. Since probably EVERY COUPLE looked on each other in lust before marriage, there may have NEVER been a couple marry that has not already committed adultery violating the Ten Commandments. What a joke."
If they did this, according to Jesus, they are an adulterer at heart.
truthfollower01,
Yes. Pure nonsense.
It's sad that you think that being a human is "sinful". It's sad that you were trained to deny your very nature because of your fear of a make-believe eternal punishment.
Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !!!
Where do morals come from?
By Kelly Murray, CNN
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments
Gravity is not up for debate !
BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !
Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet
Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm
Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.
The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?
The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species
Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm
April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |
May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |
Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm
And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !
From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml
the wrong path is Adam and Eve !
Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought
Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm
No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US
Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.
No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !
Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History
Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm
Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4
Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...
Good stuff !
The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !
Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle
Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm
For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !
Where do morals come from?
By Kelly Murray, CNN
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/
Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.
Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’
Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
bears his name as the “God particle.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/
Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/
Science
Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/
April 7th, 2012
08:32 PM ET
The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915
Make sure to read comments
April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |
Breaking News
NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html
NASA: Mars could have supported life
Star Dust we are .
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
“By the fig and the olive.
Mount Sinai.
And this honored town (Mecca).”* 95:1-3
*95:1-3 The fig, olive, Sinai and Mecca possibly symbolize Adam, Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Muhammad, respectively. Thus, all major religions are represented.
“We created man in the best design.
Then turned him into the lowliest of the lowly.
Except those who believe and lead a righteous life; they receive a reward that is well deserved.
Why do you still reject the faith?
Is God not the Most Wise, of all the wise ones?” 95:4-8
“The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]
“It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.” [19:35]
“No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. ... [35:18]
“They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]
“Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know." [2:30]
“They say , "We live only this life; we will not be resurrected. If you could only see them when they stand before their Lord! He would say, "Is this not the truth?" They would say, "Yes, by our Lord." He would say, "You have incurred the retribution by your disbelief." [6:30]
Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to visit whyIslam org website.
The koranic passages that make Islam the terror and horror religion that it is:
o "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
o
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)
"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)
"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)
"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
"Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)
Quran (8:12) – "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (9:5) – "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Why are you guys so bitter at God?
Who are "you guys"?
Hopefully, you're not talking about atheists because that would be silly. Why would someone be bitter that something they don't believe exists.
( .. bitter at something... )
Ask the Christians and other believers. They are the only ones who could.
i am not bitter at a being in which i do not believe. however, i do like to challenge and/or ridicule those who beieve in this being
If you refer to atheists, atheists cannot be bitter at something they don't believe in.
Atheists can be bitter at a religious majority if it insists on trampling on everyone's first amendment rights of and from religion.
I'll grant you that a lot of the discourse here is unnecessary, but when you see posts declaring that atheists are stupid, or will burn in hell (or words to that effect) people will react with vitriol.
Does that answer your question?
We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man’s right is abridged by the insti.tution of Civil Society, and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true, that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority. – James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments (1785)
Are you sure you are not projecting your own bitterness at being born Kevin but then having your parents call you Kevster?