June 1st, 2014
07:02 PM ET

When religious obsessions slide into OCD

(CNN) - When she was 12, Jennifer Traig's hands were red and raw from washing them so much. She'd start scrubbing a half an hour before dinner; when she was done, she'd hold her hands up like a surgeon until her family sat down to eat.

Her handwashing compulsions began at the time she was studying for her Bat Mitzvah. She was so worried about being exposed to pork fumes that she cleaned her shoes and barrettes in a washing machine.

"Like a lot of people with OCD, I tended to obsess about cleanliness," said Traig, now 42. "But because I was reading various Torah portions, I was obsessed with a biblical definition of cleanliness."

Family dinners were awkward for Tina Fariss Barbour, too, as an adolescent. She would concentrate so hard on praying for forgiveness that if anyone tried to interrupt her thoughts, she wouldn't respond.

"First I had to get rid of all my sins, ask forgiveness, do it in the right way, and then I had to pray for protection," said Barbour, now 50. "Or, if something bad happened to my family, it would be my fault because I had not prayed good enough."

The women come from different faith backgrounds: Barbour is Methodist and Traig is Jewish. But as children they believed fervently that they needed to conduct their own rituals and prayers, or else disaster would befall their families.

Both women say they suffered from a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder known as scrupulosity. A fear of sin or punishment from deities characterizes this condition, saidJonathan Abramowitz, professor and associate chairman of the department of psychology at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, or OCD, involves unwanted thoughts ("obsessions") and accompanying behaviors called compulsions that patients use to reduce anxiety. In scrupulosity, the obsessions have a religious or moral underpinning.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (374 Responses)
  1. MadeFromDirt

    False doctrines and teachings conveying an incomplete message of God's Gospel are dangerous, and always lead to other problems. Trying to earn God's forgiveness or favor by performing rituals or avoiding certain acts will never provide peace and assurance to the soul, and so it's no surprise that someone with an inclination toward OCD and without a firm grasp of the Gospel will experience the spillover of OCD tendencies into their spiritual life, thus magnifying the effects of the disorder and clearly displaying the urgency for them to get right with God.

    Nothing we do could ever remove the stain of our shortcomings before God. Our Creator is infinitely pure, and He cannot tolerate one bit of imperfection in His presence. He created us as eternal beings with the capacity to be perfect in His image, but we all chose otherwise, and the consequence is eternal separation from Him. God's grace of salvation is not delivered by Him choosing to look away from our failures to obey Him, nor by our supposed good deeds carrying more weight than our transgressions against Him and fellow human beings. God's salvation for us was delivered through His Son Jesus Christ. Salvation is granted by grace and solely by our faith in the atoning work of Jesus Christ alone, coupled with living an unchained life that is consistent with an att-itude of grat-itude. If someone has outwardly professed the Truth of Christ's nature, life, and resurrection, and the imputation of His record onto ours, and strives to turn away from their previous life of disobedience, but thinks they still need to balance God's scales against their past and ongoing sins, they are effectively doubting the forgiveness, promises, and power of Christ, and calling God a liar, and that is a fruit of no saving faith at all.

    But in God's infinite wisdom of working all things for the benefit of His people, the OCD could be a blessing that wakes one up, and helps one uncover the hidden state of their alienation from God, and realize the deeper truth of their unsaved condition that is masked by their outward appearance, activities, and vain adherence to law that has been superseded by Christ. But tragically for others, the OCD is treated superficially, and the alarm is silenced artificially, and their false understanding of God and of their status before Him continues to point them on a downward path away from Him.

    June 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm |
    • bostontola

      Why did God give some people OCD in the first place?

      June 2, 2014 at 7:42 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        For some, OCD could be a blessing.

        June 2, 2014 at 7:52 pm |
        • hawaiiguest

          Yes who wouldn't love to have that completely compulsive need to scrub your hands raw or face agonizing and crippling anxiety. That totally makes sense.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:54 pm |
        • Akira

          Then you don't understand OCD.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:59 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Hawaiiguest, try reading the whole comment, or slow down and pay attention to what you read.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:59 pm |
        • hawaiiguest

          By your comment you seem to be implying that OCD should be treated by faith counseling, which is an even more moronic and irresponsible statement to make.

          June 2, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Hawaiiguest, I'm not sure what you mean by "faith counseling", but OCD and saving faith are independent of each other. If an OCD-afflicted person receives and applies corrective Biblical instruction about the futility of man's actions before God, and the sufficiency of Christ, their OCD might still express itself in other areas of their lives rather than in rituals that demonstrate the troubled state of their faith.

          June 3, 2014 at 3:43 am |
        • hawaiiguest

          What the hell are you even saying? Is it a blessing or not? Is it to be treated with your religion or not? Commit to a view and stick by it at least.

          June 3, 2014 at 4:22 am |
        • tallulah131

          OCD is NOT a blessing, and you're a jerk to say so. It's certainly not as bad as some mental illnesses, but it can be crippling, humiliating and depressing. You know that your actions are irrational but can't stop them. What sick kind of blessing is that?

          June 3, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        Or from "A Million Ways To Die in the West" (Seth Macfarlane's movie that opened over the weekend):

        Louisa: What's Parkinson's disease?
        Albert: Another of the mysterious ways that God shows us that he loves us.

        June 2, 2014 at 7:59 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      A perfect being cannot choose to be imperfect. If your god created humans to be perfect then the "fall" is an impossibility.

      June 2, 2014 at 7:42 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        As I said, God created man with "the capacity to be perfect", which is different than perfect. In this life we have fallen, and by God's grace our perfection will come later.

        June 2, 2014 at 7:57 pm |
      • hawaiiguest

        And yet it says in the bible that it is impossible to live up to the standards set forth by your god, which would naturally imply that we do not have the capacity to be perfect. I also take it that you are not of the ilk that believes that Adam and Eve were created perfect beings based on what you said, which would also put you at odds with many denominations. So why should we take your word over theirs anyway?

        June 2, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
      • Reality

        God created this and that and whatever. But who created your god?????

        June 2, 2014 at 11:43 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          they never answer that one.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:47 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Reality, God is not created. He always was, always is, and always will be. That's what God is. Nothing can exist without a self-existing Creator. He exists above and beyond our universe, and He orders it and sustains it all and everything in the spiritual realm. God's absolute power and purity are what make us helpless before Him.

          June 3, 2014 at 3:14 am |
        • Reality

          Made from dirt,

          Your reasoning does not compute since you believe there must be a creator of all things and that would include your god.

          And John's gospel by the way is historically nil.

          Might want to peruse the following:

          o Think infinity and recycling with the Big Bang expansion followed by the shrinking reversal called the Gib Gnab and recycling back to the Big Bang repeating the process on and on forever. Human life and Earth are simply a minute part of this cha-otic, sto-cha-stic, expanding, shrinking process disappearing in five billion years with the burn out of the Sun and maybe returning in another five billion years with different life forms but still subject to the va-ga-ries of its local star.

          June 3, 2014 at 8:31 am |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Reality, science has proven that the universe had a beginning, which matches the Bible. And the idea that there is a continuous cycle of big bangs and big crunches was discredited by science many years ago; the universe is actually expanding at an accelerating rate, and will dissipate into nothing if left to its own laws.

          But anyway, the logic of a self-existing Creator does compute, because nothing can create itself, and nothing other than a self-existing force can have the power to do or create anything. It is your reasoning that is flawed, trying to have it both ways. If you don't believe the universe was created, then you must believe that the universe is eternal and self-existing, but we know the universe had a beginning and is doomed by its own laws. So in reality, God is the self-existing and eternal force.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • fintronics

          "Reality, science has proven that the universe had a beginning, which matches the Bible"

          Science has proven no such thing.

          June 3, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
        • Reality

          o "In the 1930s, theoretical physicists, most notably Albert Einstein, considered the possibility of a cyclic model for the universe as an (everlasting) alternative to the model of an expanding universe. However, work by Richard C. Tolman in 1934 showed that these early attempts failed because of the entropy problem: according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, entropy can only increase.[1] This implies that successive cycles grow longer and larger. Extrapolating back in time, cycles before the present one become shorter and smaller culminating again in a Big Bang and thus not replacing it. This puzzling situation remained for many decades until the early 21st century when the recently discovered dark energy component provided new hope for a consistent cyclic cosmology.[2] In 2011, a five-year survey of 200,000 galaxies and spanning 7 billion years of cosmic time confirmed that "dark energy is driving our universe apart at accelerating speeds."[3][4]

          One new cyclic model is a brane cosmology model of the creation of the universe, derived from the earlier ekpyrotic model. It was proposed in 2001 by Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University and Neil Turok of Cambridge University. The theory describes a universe exploding into existence not just once, but repeatedly over time.[5][6] The theory could potentially explain why a mysterious repulsive form of energy known as the "cosmological constant", and which is accelerating the expansion of the universe, is several orders of magnitude smaller than predicted by the standard Big Bang model."
          A different cyclic model relying on the notion of phantom energy was proposed in 2007 by Lauris Baum and Paul Frampton of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.[7]"

          June 3, 2014 at 11:39 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          So then, if you accept those theories of Turok and company, we agree on one thing: An eternal and self-existing power does exist. You say that power is a mysterious unverifiable theory from a science book; I say that power is God as He chose to reveal in the Bible.

          So your question "who created your god" isn't really an honest question that is consistent with your belief that a power can be eternal and self-existing, is it?

          June 4, 2014 at 2:53 am |
        • Reality

          Some updates on Made from Dirt's god bible:

          origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

          New Torah For Modern Minds

          “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
          Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

          The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

          Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

          The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

          The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

          As per National Geographic's Genographic project:

          " DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who about 60,000 years ago began a remarkable journey. Follow the journey from them to you as written in your genes”.

          "Adam" is the common male ancestor of every living man. He lived in Africa some 60,000 years ago, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least at that time.

          Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.

          It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."

          o More details from National Geographic's Genographic project: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

          "Our spe-cies is an African one: Africa is where we first ev-olved, and where we have spent the majority of our time on Earth. The earliest fos-sils of recognizably modern Ho-mo sapiens appear in the fossil record at Omo Kibish in Ethiopia, around 200,000 years ago. Although earlier fossils may be found over the coming years, this is our best understanding of when and approximately where we originated.

          According to the genetic and paleontological record, we only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago. What set this in motion is uncertain, but we think it has something to do with major climatic shifts that were happening around that time—a sudden cooling in the Earth’s climate driven by the onset of one of the worst parts of the last Ice Age. This cold snap would have made life difficult for our African ancestors, and the genetic evidence points to a sharp reduction in population size around this time. In fact, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. We were holding on by a thread.

          Once the climate started to improve, after 70,000 years ago, we came back from this near-extinction event. The population expanded, and some intrepid explorers ventured beyond Africa. The earliest people to colonize the Eurasian landma-ss likely did so across the Bab-al-Mandab Strait separating present-day Yemen from Djibouti. These early beachcombers expanded rapidly along the coast to India, and reached Southeast Asia and Australia by 50,000 years ago. The first great foray of our species beyond Africa had led us all the way across the globe."

          June 4, 2014 at 6:12 am |
    • Madtown

      God's salvation for us was delivered through His Son Jesus Christ
      Define "us". God has created many humans today, who will go their entire lives never learning about Jesus.

      June 2, 2014 at 7:43 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        In that sentence, "us" refers to those who have received God's grace of salvation.

        June 2, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
        • Madtown

          Ah, so only the special people like you, not those humans that God has created today who will never hear about Jesus. LOL.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:13 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Madtown, all human beings deserve hell.

          June 3, 2014 at 3:29 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "all human beings deserve hell."

          What a horrible thing to think and live by. I'm sorry that someone brainwashed you to believe that but it's false and immoral to live thinking you're not good enough when we should be empowering people to know they can break the ties and do so without the need for a god that no man can know due to its complete non-existence. If you're raising children to think like this, you're being abusive and should not be allowed anywhere near them.

          June 3, 2014 at 4:31 am |
        • G to the T

          "Madtown, all human beings deserve hell."

          And on this we shall never agree.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:39 am |
        • Madtown

          all human beings deserve hell.
          As the others have said, what a sad thing to believe. You've clearly fallen prey to the guilt that organized religion wants to put upon you, really sad. Why would you think this? Why do I deserve hell? You don't know the first thing about me, but you're certain I deserve hell? I'm not perfect, like any human, but I'm typically kind, considerate, generous, charitable, and humble, or at least try hard to be all those things. Why on earth would I deserve hell?

          June 3, 2014 at 12:29 pm |
        • fintronics

          The Christian self persecution complex.

          June 3, 2014 at 2:35 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          Responders above, we all agree that nobody is perfect. But God is perfect. If God permitted imperfection into His new eternal Kingdom, He would not be perfect any more. But He has provided a way for us to get perfect, by granting us Christ's perfection. Perfect love, perfect righteousness, perfect judgment, all in harmony.

          June 4, 2014 at 3:10 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "the OCD could be a blessing that wakes one up, and helps one uncover the hidden state of their alienation from God, and realize the deeper truth of their unsaved condition"
      Hogwash. Do you know what OCD is?

      It is a horrible affliction. It may not be as bad as problems like bi-polar disorders and some people can hide it, even from those they love, but it can be literally maddening.

      June 2, 2014 at 8:06 pm |
    • harlow13

      Why would an all knowing being create sick beings, and then command them to be well? Why would a wizened being use a human sacrifice as a means for absolving the sins of other beings? I think this goD you describe sounds nuts. He burdens some with OCD, others with schizophrenia or brain tumors. It just sounds rotten. I can not admire such stuff. Is he able to do better but unwilling, or simply unable to do any better? I can understand the latter, but not the former. Why won't he be kinder? I think I know the answer. I suspect there is no goD.

      June 2, 2014 at 8:35 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        Harlow13, you are looking at the situation from a man-centered perspective, and only through three-fourths of the plan. In the context of eternity united with our Creator, this world and its struggles and pain fade to nothingness.

        June 3, 2014 at 3:23 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          You're also looking at it from the human side, it is all there can be. It is pure arrogance of you to think you can speak for what this god wants and intends when no-one could possibly know (non-existence makes it easy for you to make up stories). You are a prime example of the damage a strong belief can cause-living in fear; believing you're not good enough; believing you have knowledge that no other has; speaking for this imaginary being....the cure to this is an education and the world will be a better place when we see the demise of your belief system (it is happening).

          June 3, 2014 at 4:44 am |
    • realbuckyball

      I see you could rationalize literally anything if you tried, and/or needed to.
      Of course what YOU believe just happens to NOt be "false". Just like the billions of other that have that same opinion, yet possess those "false beliefs". Such childish tripe. Grow up.

      June 2, 2014 at 9:19 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        Realbuckyball, if you are sincerely interested in what beliefs are true or not, look at the fruits of the beliefs. Do they glorify the Creator, or elevate man?

        June 3, 2014 at 3:49 am |
    • Dalahäst

      God's strength is perfected in our weakness. Amen.

      June 2, 2014 at 9:51 pm |
      • hawaiiguest

        So your god is not perfect on his own, he needed to purposefully create weak creatures, most of which he will send to eternal torment to perfect himself? That's hilarious.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:08 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          To answer your question: NO. Now,why is that funny? Or were you answering that a different way in your head?

          June 2, 2014 at 10:13 pm |
        • hawaiiguest

          What's funny now is that you are completely denying that you said what you said. Unless you're using a completely different language. Or do you just not like it when useless little platitudes actually get analyzed and shown to be ridiculous?

          June 2, 2014 at 10:15 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I never said God is not perfect on his own, like you asked about.

          Nor did I say he needed to puposely create weak creature.

          Nor did i say he will send anyone to eternal torment to perfect himself.

          As a person who suffers from a deadly disase: I initially thought the diagnosis was a curse. With God's help I am managing the disease and am able to help other people diagnosed with my same disease. God is able to work through my weakness to reach me and others.

          See, God can use all of us. Not just our strengths. Not just the things we boast and brag about on message boards.
          "So if you are faced with your own limitedness in your life right now…you can’t manage to stop drinking on your own, or stop shopping compulsively or stop hating yourself or stop loving someone who is hurting you. If you are filled with false pride or filled with fear and unable to find motivation to do what you know should be done. Know that, there is no shame in that. Because as St Paul said, God’s strength is perfected in your weakness. Denying yourself might just look like letting yourself off the hook for having to be God. As I like to remind myself a big difference between me and God is that God never thinks he’s Nadia. So letting God be God for you means denying the cult of the self. both self aggrandizement and self abasement.

          So good people of God, I cannot convince you of this. I can only describe what it looks like (and trust me, it never looks flattering.) When it comes to something I know and not something I simply believe all I can do is write this letter and hand it to you like a field guide. As your preacher that is all I am authorized to do. I wish it were a magical puppy. Instead it’s life and life abundant found in the paradox of losing your self in Christ."

          – Nadia Bolz-Weber

          June 2, 2014 at 10:28 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          You can repeat that until you're blue in the face. Look up the Argument from Authority fallacy. YOU used scientists to talk about religion. Where did I ever use authorities from ONE field as authorities in another. You have no clue.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:15 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Doris posted quotes from scientist who are atheists.

          I posted quotes from scientists who believe in God.

          I didn't make a claim that it was logical or proved any point. Although Doris did in her post.

          You then went on to say that most scientists are atheists. And that you knew experts in the field that supported your claims. Which seemed to demonstrate what you falsely accused me of.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:33 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Why did you not inform Doris she was guilty of that fallacy? She posted in the same manner you accused me of. And you said nothing!

          Because her fallacy supported your beliefs? That is why I claimed you were demonstrating a double-standard. To which you still have not addressed.

          You just didn't like what I posted, and decided to label it a logical fallacy. Which it wasn't.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:39 pm |
        • hawaiiguest


          "God's strength is perfected in our weakness."
          Saying that it is "perfected" automatically implies that it wasn't to begin with. Also, are we not as your god made us? Are our failings our own or the oversight of the one who created us. When a computer breaks do you blame the computer? No you blame either the maker if the problem is in the design, or yourself for putting the computer in a circumstance where it is inevitable. And you must really have a different interpretation of the bible than the majority if you think your god doesn't threaten to send people to hell.
          It really seems like you don't like your useless platitudes actually analyzed. You probably don't like seeing exactly how stupid and inane they really are.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:47 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Really ? And black is white. You do realize that equivocation is a fallacy also. You seem to be up to your neck in those this week. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation

        June 2, 2014 at 10:29 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          You committed the same logical fallacy you accused me of committing yesterday. That demonstrated hypocrisy on your part.
          I'm also sharing my experience. The human experience and life itself is not logical. That is why we are all flawed, imperfect, illogical beings. Everyone of us. Not 1 is completely logical.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:34 pm |
    • Vic

      Nice going MadeFromDirt & Dalahäst, it takes a humble and calling heart to know God. Powerful testimonies from scientists and believers posted for the past two days.

      I can't say it enough, it's not that I am any good, it is that I trust and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ.

      "Amazing Grace how sweet the sound, that saves a wretch like me.."

      God Bless.

      June 2, 2014 at 11:33 pm |
      • Dalahäst

        Thanks, Vic.

        That is a great song. I often think of it when on this blog trying to share my experience. It sums it up well.

        June 2, 2014 at 11:41 pm |
        • Vic

          Keep up the good work Dalahäst, you are blessed.

          BTW, I wanted to say this back then during Easter, a very creative post about when you prayed at church and heard a voice that turned out to be from the balcony, and I laughed so hard.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:52 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Oh, yea, I forgot about that.

          Hey, also around Easter I was praying to God for help in understanding things. We had a neo-nazi murder 3 people at a Jewish Community Center. The 3 people were devout Christians. Anyway, their family members were strong and continued to trust in God. But I asked God for help.

          A few days later a woman at my church, who I didn't know that well handed me a gift wrapped package. It was the book "Beautiful Outlaw" by John Elridge. I read it quickly. It is a great book. I'm still shocked a stranger gave me a gift wrapped present like that. Look up the book if you get a chance. He also has the whole book on YouTube. He reads it to a group.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:07 am |
    • igaftr

      You have a couple of things wrong with you post, such as you do not know if there are any gods, and your book claiming there is a god, was written by men, not any gods.
      You have decided that it is true, so you convince yourself that it is, but you really have no idea.

      June 3, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        Igaftr, wrong again. I do know, and the same knowledge is available to you this very moment.

        June 4, 2014 at 3:33 am |
        • fintronics

          no evidence

          June 5, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • MadeFromDirt

          "No evidence", repeated the man who owes his existence to his Creator.

          June 5, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Dirt: OCD is ritual based. It's a chemical misfire in the brain that forces repeated action out of an irrational fear that something terrible will happen if that action is not accomplished perfectly. Of course, that perfection is not attainable, so the action becomes repetitious. It's no surprise that for some religious people it manifests in their faith. The rituals and the threat are already in place.

      It has nothing to do with having or not having a "firm grasp of the Gospel". That is simply your utterly ignorant take on something that you know nothing about.

      June 3, 2014 at 1:45 pm |
      • MadeFromDirt

        Tallulah131, I did not write that OCD is caused by weak faith, or by following a false gospel. If you read closely, you will see among other things that I mean OCD could expose to someone the danger of a false gospel or their weak faith, and make more urgent the need to address that problem.

        June 4, 2014 at 3:30 am |
        • tallulah131

          OCD is unrelated to religious dogma. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain. OCD manifests itself as repetitious ritual driven by the irrational fear of terrible consequences if that ritual is not perfectly completed. It's not at all surprising that for religious people it manifests within their religion. The ritual is already built-in, as are the consequences. For those that suffer from OCD, the ritual is what matters, not the meaning of the ritual.

          June 5, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
  2. thefinisher1

    They should do one for atheism. I think most atheists that have access to the internet have OCD in an unhealthy way. Most claim not to like religion, want nothing to do with it but they become obsessed anyways. Hmm. Atheists are a strange bunch. Seek help atheists. They have professionals out there that can help you overcome your OCD😝

    June 2, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Hello pot. How's black is the kettle today?

      June 2, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
    • bostontola

      Let's say many atheists are obsessed with religion. Since they are less than 2% of the population, there is a rational reason to be obsessed with religions that regard them as agents of evil.

      You on the other hand, are obsessed with pip squeak atheists, those tiny 2%ers. There is no rational reason for that. I conclude you are the one needing help. I recommend you try Christianity. They will counsel you to love others, even your enemies, not be obsessed with them.

      June 2, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        I'd recommend the same. Take your own advice. Maybe instead of creating your own reality, you should let go of your delusions😜

        June 2, 2014 at 6:56 pm |
        • bostontola

          I just explained the difference, I'm in a small minority that is often accused by the vast majority of being an agent of evil. That gives me reason to be rationally obsessed. You are obsessed with a tiny minority. That is not rational. Please get help. I'm confident Christianity can help you.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:13 pm |
  3. kenmargo

    Religious obsessions starts from childhood. Starts from childhood with Santa Claus. If you're good, you get gifts. If you're bad you get coal. Sounds like god doesn't it? That scam is kept alive as long as possible then you graduate into the god complex with the bad guy being another imaginary character The Devil. Sounds like the WWE on a larger sacle.

    June 2, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      that's why wrestling is so popular in the bible belt. It's that ability to suspend reality.

      June 2, 2014 at 5:14 pm |
  4. otoh2

    Not sure the following story qualifies as OCD, but wow, maybe some form of mental illness...


    The bride/mother, who attached her one month old baby to her wedding gown's train for the walk down the aisle said: "Most important while yall got ya feelings in us we had our hearts in Christ which covers all!!.. We good though we covered by the Blood which never loose its power."

    June 2, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
    • igaftr

      That woman can't even speak English, so can someone tell me how she can read the old English that is in the bible?

      Delusion upon delusion with that woman. Her child is doomed.

      June 2, 2014 at 3:25 pm |
    • tallulah131

      That's not OCD. That's just plain insane!

      June 2, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
    • Akira

      This woman acted contrary to Scripture. She is guilty of adultery.
      Destroy the heretic! Her choices shame us all.

      June 2, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
  5. Dyslexic doG

    OCD = Ordinary Christian Delusion

    June 2, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      Obviously Crazy Deist

      June 2, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      At risk of being branded the "PC police", let's not make fun of a real medical condition (OCD) that makes people's lives quite miserable.

      Belief in God(s) is not a mental illness. It helps provide meaning for a lot of people.
      Nor does non-belief represent any deficiency in humanity.

      June 2, 2014 at 4:00 pm |
      • kenmargo

        For some, religion is a form of mental illness. Have you listened to some of the republican candidates lately?

        June 2, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        The pandering blathering of politicians may appear to be indistinct from symptoms of mental illness but I remain convinced that that deliberate self delusion through cognitive dissonance is materially different from a medical condition.

        Some politicians (like ~six term senators) are so old that you start to wonder if they are experiencing the onset of senility, (Alzheimer's, Dementia, etc) but this is not the case for most.

        June 2, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Just to play devil's advocate. (Pun intended) What about people that swear the world is coming to an end? OCD, crazy or scam artists? What gets me is the people that give them money. If the world is coming to an end, what are they supposed to do with the money?

          June 2, 2014 at 5:16 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          I haven't heard too many Republicans preaching that the world is about to end.

          Yes, the idea of a end times preacher asking for donations should ring alarm bells with any skeptic. It does beg the question 'does he think he can take it with him?'.

          In either case cognitive dissonance is required. It is mandatory for strict adherence to GOP platform planks.

          The evangelical Protestant's guide to running for office involves the following "pro-life" credo:

          Save all the unborn fetuses so they can be refused heath-care, refused food stamps, taught abstinence and creationism. Make sure the minimum wage stays low and that they have plenty of guns with which to shoot each other and then execute them for murder or jail them for recreational drug possession because they're no-good, degenerate, enti.tlement addicts anyway.

          Don't tax corporations or the top 1%, or regulate them in any way even if destroying the planet and off-shoring all the 'good' middle class jobs makes them obscenely profitable.

          The 14th amendment does not apply to gays, they are separate but equal, because the Bible tells me so.

          June 2, 2014 at 6:26 pm |
  6. mk

    I don't know what to call it...when I was a Christian, I was always worried and feeling guilty over everything I did. I thought that if I didn't pray the rosary, confess to everything that I perceived as a wrong, etc., I would be punished. THEN I would begin to worry that I had done something that I didn't perceive was wrong, but god did...what if I missed out on confessing something when I wasn't sure was wrong? What would happen come death-time?

    I can't think that it was an OCD because I wasn't technically obsessed, but I did worry about it a LOT.

    Maybe I can just say I was afflicted with "the fear of god"?

    Whatever it was, I just thank god I got the hell out of there.

    June 2, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      The catholic cycle of guilt. A very effective way to maintain power over their members... It is indeed a difficult programming to rewrite.

      June 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      The religion you grew up with new some basic sales techniques which is why you felt so guilty if you didn't buy in.

      Focus on your prospect or client's situation to help them see a need they had not seen before.

      Listen to the emotional side of your prospect or client. Emotions are tied into almost everything we do even if we don't realize it.

      Use language that focuses on your prospect or client like "you" and "your". For example, "You don't want to suffer in heII do you? Your family doesn't want to see you suffer in heII and neither do we which is why i'm here today..."

      If you've listened to them and created a need, but still aren't getting anywhere, find out if there are other elements of their lives that are taking priority and pushing your sale aside and diminish those things. If they worry about their kids getting a good education tell them that earthly education can't save their souls, only a spiritual education can.

      Practiced the world over and the primary reason the majority of the world is religious while at the same time being extremely undereducated.

      June 2, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        ABC Sales...

        June 2, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist


        June 2, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      What a weird world. When I was agnostic/atheist, I too was always worried and feeling guilty over everything I did. I just had an overwhelming sense of shame and guilt. I was full of fear and apprehension.

      I was never clinically diagnosed as OCD. I certainly didn't have a "fear of god".

      But in following Jesus those worries, guilt, shame and fear have left me. I am free. And I claim I'm responsible for my actions for the first time in my life. I freely choose Jesus.

      June 2, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        "When I was agnostic/atheist, I too was always worried and feeling guilty over everything I did."


        "I just had an overwhelming sense of shame and guilt. I was full of fear and apprehension."

        Fear of what?

        "When I was agnostic/atheist" after your comments I find that very hard to believe, unless you are talking about when you were five and the serious indoctrination had not yet begun and you just had a rough idea of some jolly fat man in a red suit that you believed watched you day and night and wrote names down on a naughty and nice list...

        June 2, 2014 at 2:34 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          "When I was agnostic/atheist, I too was always worried and feeling guilty over everything I did."

          + Why?

          I was afraid and had issues with anxiety.

          + Fear of what?

          People. Economic insecurity. No sense of purpose or meaning.

          + unless you are talking about when you were five and the serious indoctrination had not yet begun and you just had a rough idea of some jolly fat man in a red suit that you believed watched you day and night and wrote names down on a naughty and nice list...

          I was a teenager and an adult during these times.

          I haven't been indoctrinated to believe those things you imagine. Sorry!

          June 2, 2014 at 2:52 pm |
      • Madtown

        And you made that choice because it was available to you. Good thing you didn't grow up elsewhere!

        June 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Right. I grew up in a predominately Christian nation, in the Bible Belt, and I was allowed to choose to be different than the norm.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
      • Dyslexic doG

        oh Dal, you were never an agnostic/atheist. Are Christians allowed to lie so shamelessly? Won't you be left behind at the rapture for lying so often in this forum?

        June 2, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Honest: I was an atheist. I can probably dig up some mailings from 1990 I used to receive from the Freedom from Religion Foundation and send it to you if you want. I can send you cassette tapes from bands like Minor Threat, Dead Kennedy's and The Crass that expressed the disdain for religion I shared with them.

          What, am I not a "real atheist" by your standards? Guess what: atheist just means you don't believe in God. I definitely qualified as one.

          It is that simple.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          so because you preface your comment with the word "honest:" we are supposed to believe your lies?

          June 2, 2014 at 5:06 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Who is we? Are there multiple people posting with you? You are the only one that is accusing me of lying about being an atheist. You can have that belief if you want. Believe I was never an atheist. Good for you. Yay! It is false, but.. hey. Who cares? You win!

          June 2, 2014 at 5:23 pm |
      • tallulah131

        So you grew up in the bible belt, didn't believe yet felt guilt and shame? Sounds like social pressure. It's not necessarily deliberate, but when you're different than others, you may feel like an outsider and subconsciously wish to conform.

        I grew up in a small christian town with parents that were not particularly religious. I always just assumed I was christian because that's what all the people around me were. When I grew up and realized that I couldn't believe in a god for which there was no evidence, I felt a lot of guilt. It took an effort to let it go, but to even pretend to believe was a lie, and I prefer to be honest, even with myself.

        June 2, 2014 at 3:37 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Nice guess, but you missed the mark. I wasn't in a small town. And there were people from different belief backgrounds present. Being an atheist/agnostic wasn't that uncommon. I didn't feel social pressure to fit in by joining a religion. Most social pressure was to drink, party and not give a f.ck what anyone thought of us.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:06 pm |
        • tallulah131

          The small town experience was mine. I never said it was yours. And you said you grew up in the bible belt. Religion was all around you, whether you consciously cared or not. Culture affects us in more ways than we realize.

          June 3, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
      • mk

        Let's say I believe that you were an atheist at one time. Why in the WORLD would you suddenly take up believing in stories that make no sense?? That tells me that a) you gave into the pressure from those around you, or b) you were lonely/depressed/looking for something meaningful in your life and got sucked in by the promise of a rapturous life. (Once I accidentally switched my radio to a religious station and heard the DJ call all lowly, hopeless people to come to his church to get answers for their pathetic lives. Was he talking to you?)

        June 3, 2014 at 8:43 am |
        • Dalahäst

          + Why in the WORLD would you suddenly take up believing in stories that make no sense??

          Just because they personally don't make sense to you, does not mean they don't make sense to other people. I'm not sure why you are trying to dictate what you imagine I believe and why I believe. It seems to be arrogant on your part.

          + That tells me that

          I'm glad that tells you that. That doesn't make it true. Do atheists spend hours upon hours day after day posting on a religion blog about a God that doesn't exist because they are NOT lonely/depressed/looking for something meaningful in their life?

          How about this: I saw people in my community doing things that matched my ideals. Helping others, feeding the hungry, serving the community, and sacrificing their comfort for those in need.

          And they seemed happy. You could see it in their eyes. And not all had easy lives. Some were dealing with handicaps and diseases. They testified God was helping them.

          I gave it a shot. And it worked for me.

          What do you have to offer me that is different? You are judging me. You seem to say your way is the best way. But it doesn't work for me. Sorry, but atheism is not what I am. I can't deny God. He exists. He is real. And I'm not harming you in the least bit to testify to that and live it out in my life.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:03 am |
        • mk

          "Just because they personally don't make sense to you, does not mean they don't make sense to other people."

          People jokingly call them fairy tales, but if you truly pay attention to the stories, that joke is no joke. I am personally embarrassed that I believed in some of the stories without question. A talking snake, a pregnant virgin, etc. do not logically make sense. That is not a judgement or even an opinion of mine, they are facts. The only way they would make sense is if you were convinced without logic. This is why children are the easiest targets for religious.

          "I saw people in my community doing things that matched my ideals. Helping others, feeding the hungry, serving the community, and sacrificing their comfort for those in need. And they seemed happy."

          This is what bothers me: that most religious think that only the religious/believers in god reach out and help others and only the religious/believers in god are happy. That is so far from true. I am happier, more generous, more loving, more everything good since becoming free from the hooks of religion. I'm no longer worried about pleasing a needy god, I'm worried about those around me. We are responsible for each other. My destiny and purpose on this earth depends on me, not a finicky god who may or may not hear me.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
    • Reality

      Ditto that "getting the hell out of there" for exactly the same reasons. And all it required was reading "outside the bible box".

      June 2, 2014 at 2:46 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Whether people believe in God or not is largely moot.

      Excepting one or two wedge issues there is no moral divide between believers and non-believers.

      I don't look at things differently as an atheist than when I was a believer – except for not having to worry about going to Church on Sundays.

      The real issue is religious fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is a codified form of tribalism with specific taboos. It inevitably leads to theocracy and attacks on religious freedom. Either directly (such as Islamic states that implement Sharia) or indirectly in attempts to have 'legislation their way' in the developed world. It also leads to missionary/proselytizing work that creates more problems than it solves.

      The problem isn't whether or not people believe in God, it is whether or not people are prepare to respect every individual's right to freedom of and from religion.

      June 2, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
      • bostontola

        I feel pretty much the same. People believe all sorts of things, God isn't even the strangest. To me the issue is activist religion. This is usually fundamentalist interpretation of selected dogma that is xenophobic. Some religions don't have that.

        June 2, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
  7. bostontola

    I had a pleasant conversation with Dalahast yesterday that led to a surprise for me, Dalahast (followed by another poster) said they know there is a God. After some clarification, it wasn't that they just believed there is a God, they know it with certainty.

    I don't know there is no God, I believe that to be true. At first I had a hard time understanding how someone could think they know something with no objective evidence. How do you reconcile faith with certain knowing.

    I'm thinking that believers/knowers in God have different basis of 'knowing' something than I do. Maybe they 'know' something when it appears that way to their own personal senses and thinking processes. When sight, sound, internal feelings, etc all align on a thing, they 'know' it.

    I don't trust my senses or my brain to arrive at correct conclusions enough to attribute fact to what I personally sense and conclude. There are any number of weird misinterpretations of what we sense and process. OCD is an extreme, but normal people are very poor at determining facts on their own. We have built in biases that are very beneficial most of the time that can fool us. As an example, our brains are so tuned to recognizing faces that we 'see' faces even where there aren't any. There are many photos of ordinary objects (houses with windows and doors in the right places, cars with certain headlights and grilles, etc.) where we 'see' faces. Magicians take advantage of many of these holes in our perceptions to entertain us. Not only that, our senses detect only a tiny portion of what is out there, and our brains are very imperfect processors of factual information (they are very good at sensing and processing to survive in our historical environment).

    To address this, humans developed the scientific method. It is now used in science, engineering, history, business, etc. to minimize errors due to the poor ability of individual humans to sense and process the world. Multiple independent people and machines now verify what a person measures and interprets. It is hard to get the truth for measurable things in the physical world, the scientific method helps.

    But what of the non-physical world? If our own senses and brains are not trustworthy, how could we trust our senses and brains with non-physical conclusions? Yet some people 'know' there is a God. To me, that is a conceit. It puts too much trust in ourselves as individuals. Humans believe all sorts of things from various conspiracy theories, to Alien invasions, to thousands of Gods. Almost all are shown to be not true, yet many have felt that they 'knew' it.

    I get believing things without all the objective evidence, I have such beliefs (e.g. there is no God). It is interesting that some people trust themselves enough to 'know' some things with no objective, independently verified evidence. It's not OCD, but it is another feature of human thought.

    June 2, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV


      June 2, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      God gives evidence.

      And it is not the type of evidence that the anti-theists, atheists and agnostics ask me for on this blog. God doesn't operate by their standards. Most express certainty that they know why I believe. Each one with a different theory or explanation. It gets confusing trying to keep track what they imagine.

      "Be still, and know that I am God", says the Psalm.

      I'm still searching and seeking to know more about GOd. But, I do know he exists. I can't deny that. And I've tried.

      I do what is best for me. I've helped lead people to God. I've seen non-believers change and know God. And I've seen how they and their life is changed. That is evidence.

      June 2, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
      • In Santa We Trust

        It's not evidence of a god, it's evidence of belief. If evidence of belief were evidence of a god, then Vishnu must be real.

        June 2, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Right. I don't have to prove God to you in order to know He is real.

          Nor do you have to prove that your theories and explanations are more real than the other theories and explanations other atheists give me.

          To thine own self be true.

          June 2, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          So you don't know he's real – you just believe that. And if believers had evidence they would share it and if it were real there would be no atheists or believers in other gods.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I know God is real.

          I'm sharing that evidence with you. The evidence you seek comes from God, not from atheists or believers in other gods.

          God doesn't operate by your standards. But thanks for sharing your opinion once again.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          You cannot know god is real. It is only a belief. There is no evidence.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          You are only qualified to make that decision for yourself. You are incapable of deciding that for other people. Doing so it seems as if you are trying to play God.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          You cannot point to some entity and say that is a god and you cannot demonstrate the supernatural powers that you claim for that entity.
          If you had a problem with After Effects, you would look for evidence of an error – user, software, or hardware (and no this is not a parable) and would expect to find said evidence because logic and reason dictate that they are the only possibilities; you do not accept divine intervention or a black cat near the computer as possibilities.
          You have set the threshold inappropriately low when it comes to a god – you have no objective evidence. As I said earlier any such objective evidence would be made known immediately and would convert all reasonable people.
          Until you can provide objective evidence of a god it is only in your mind and is as convincing as the AE defect caused by a black cat.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Oh, I didn't realize that is how the world operates according to you. Good to know. Thanks for sharing what you imagine!

          My belief in God is not like believing that a black cat is malfunctioning a computer program. I'm capable of using logic and reason as a tool. I'm sure you are. But I don't think you are qualified to teach about it like some authority. Anyway, thanks for your 2 cents. I've heard similar theories before. Good stuff to think about.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:42 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Oh, there are plenty of reasonable people that believe in God. And you don't seem to be a reasonable person yourself. I'm just looking at the evidence you provide... and am scratching my head. You? Reasonable? No. Sorry.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          I'm not the one making the claim of a god so I have not provided any evidence. All religions are predicated on the authority bestowed on the god by the creation myth. All creation myths are proven to be incorrect, therefore the evidence they provide for the god does not exist. You may believe in a god, but you do not know that there is a god, nor do you have any objective evidence because based upon your posting habits you would post it.

          June 2, 2014 at 6:28 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          No. I can know God exists, and not have to prove it to you. You are just a guy who spends a lot of time on a religious blog. You are only qualified to type your opinion in the box and press the "post" button.

          All religions are not predicated on the authority bestowed on the god by the creation myth. Some religions do not have a creation myth. Or a god.

          All creation myths are not proven to be incorrect. The Genesis creation myth is a story that illustrates the relationship between The Creator and his creature. It uses literary devices to speak to our hearts – which can reveal a lot more than a purely scientific explanation can provide.

          You may believe I don't know there is a God. But you don't know that. It is an opinion. That is why you make that claim here: the opinion section of a website. And more specifically a religion blog. Where you spend enormous time talking about religion. Even your name reflects your obsession with religion.

          Maybe you should focus on yourself before you start expressing what you imagine in your head as a fact?

          June 2, 2014 at 6:41 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          So no evidence then, just deflection and more delusion. You cannot know – you only believe.

          June 2, 2014 at 6:43 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          How do you... know.... that?

          Oh, wait. You don't. Ok, in your imagination I can't know God exists. Great. Have at it.

          But I don't live in your imagination, Santa.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:01 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Now you're getting confused. The god is in your imagination. You know it is not evidence of a god just evidence of your belief. If you had objective evidence of a god you would present it not posting all day long about claims of a god and claiming to know not believe. Very unconvincing.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:06 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          No. God exists.

          You seem to be the one that imagines he doesn't. You imagine if you use a name like "In Santa We Trust" that proves you know what you are talking about. You imagine spending day after day arguing about a God you insist doesn't exist is reasonable and logical. You imagine that since you are an atheist that qualifies you to determine what other people know and don't know. You imagine when you write things in the same style that I'm writing right now to mock you that makes you seem like an authority on the subject.

          Talk about unconvincing.

          I trust in God. Not internet anti-theists that, instead of doing something reasonable like studying a science, demonstrating logical thinking or even showing kindness and respect to others, merely spend all day posting under a moniker meant as a derogatory term against a group of people he personally dislikes.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:13 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          If I said I know that black cats cause software defects, that aliens have abducted humans, that a pink unicorn orbits just beyond the visible universe, that low oil pressure causes flat tires, etc. by your reasoning it must be true and no-one can question it. As I've said before – you're the one claiming a god and claiming to know that that god exists when at best you believe that. The fact that it upsets you so much shows you're frustrated with not being able to explain but maybe that could be a positive if it leads you to see this is only in your imagination.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:08 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Thankd for demonstration you have no clue what "evidence" is. Evidence about the gods, from the gods is as circular as one could get.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          I have evidence my invisible unicorn friend exists cuz she gave some to me. Therefore I have evidence for her. Really I do.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:22 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          That is not my reasoning. That is quite a bit of mental gymnastics you are employing to try and prove your point.

          The onus is not on me to prove God to you. I know God exists. It is quite logical to find a person who knows God to post on a religion blog. If I were to act like you, and insist I know what you know (which you keep dodging that subject) then the onus is on me to prove that to you.

          Instead of proving to me that you know I don't actually know God exists, you offer an imaginary situation with pink ponies and black cats and expect me to believe that proves it is my reasoning.


          June 2, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          "I have evidence my invisible unicorn friend exists cuz she gave some to me. Therefore I have evidence for her. Really I do."

          No, that is a common argument that internet anti-theists use to try and prove a point. You learned that from some website,. I've heard people attempt to use it hundreds of times this year. It is a cute analogy. But it doesn't really prove your point.

          Do you honestly believe in the invisible unicorn friend?

          June 2, 2014 at 9:41 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          I can know that as easily as you can know that there is a god, i.e. we see no objective evidence of either so both are equally invalid.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:49 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          How do you imagine I know or don't know there is a God? Objective evidence doesn't explain everything there is to know. If God is the author of science – then the fact that there is order in the physical world can suggest to some to believe there is an intelligence at play in the universe.

          I see more reasons to trust in God – who has given me evidence, love, hope and serenity – and continues to make Himself known to me, than reasons to trust in you – who has given me insults, speculation and, surprisingly: no objective evidence. Just personal attacks and opinions.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          I've pointed out that the bible creation myth is not literally true.
          Why use a literary device? If a god had created the universe why not tell it as it was – not stories of 6 days, mud-man, rib-woman, etc? If a god planned evolution it would know that humans would one day be smart enough to figure this out. Why lie? As I said your religion does have a creation myth and it is not literally true. There is no other objective evidence of your god same as there is no objective evidence of other gods.
          As Ken Ham has said, ”As the creation foundation is removed, we see the Godly institutions also start to collapse."

          June 2, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I think it is quite obvious that the Genesis story is not meant to be taken literally. Only fundamentalists and anti-theists seem to claim otherwise. (You 2 have a lot in common)

          The story still reveals truths today that are very relevant. We definitely live in what the story describes as a world that has failed to live up to its ideals. And we inherit this brokedness. Every person I've learned about or met has demonstrated this brokedness.

          Maybe God has a different plan than your understanding. Maybe our hearts are more important to God then our ability to discern facts about nature seeking out objective evidence.

          Maybe Ken Ham is wrong.

          "The Genesis story was never meant to tell us how the world was created. It is rather a masterful treatise for informing us who created this floating orb in its magnificent universe. From the story, we learn that God appreciates beauty, design and order over ugliness, nonsense and chaos. One doesn’t have to tread far into Scripture before discovering that humans were created for relationship with God and one another. These convictions of faith are hardly at the heart of scientific inquiry."

          – Peter Marty (one of my Pastors)

          June 2, 2014 at 10:10 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          I don't believe, I know. Same as you and your god.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:51 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I choose not to believe you. And to continue with my knowing God.

          Other than upsetting a few anti-theists on religion blogs, it really causes no harm.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          It's the same logic with the same evidence – why wouldn't you accept that I know? You expect others to accept your "knowing" with the same evidence.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          It is not the same logic, nor the same evidence. What you describe has not revealed itself to be real to me. God has.

          I don't expect you to accept anything. You are free to claim you imagine what I know and don't know. I just don't have to accept your opinion on the matter.

          You are better qualified to talk about yourself, but you seem more interested in talking about other people. Or me.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:11 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          It's like an analogy to show how your position looks. You cannot prove that I don't know those things, so you must accept them as you expect others to accept that you know a god with no objective evidence.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:34 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          But you honestly don't believe those things.

          It is not like I'm just some brainwashed, mentally-challenged, mentally ill or delusional idiot who just believes things with no evidence.

          People try to scam me and get me to beleive all kinds of things. I have a skeptical nature. Seeing is believing. I was born in Missouri: you have to show me. So I'm not gullible nor have I failed to test my beliefs.

          Concerning God – I know He exists. I can't deny that.

          Sorry if that offends you, but it is the truth. Nobody can take that away from me.

          And you don't have to accept it. Just like I don't have to accept you trying to dictate what you imagine I know and don't know.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:41 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          All kinds of people make all kinds of claims. I do think you believe in a deity, and you think your deity is real. Billions of other s also have. They had as much evidence of their deity as you do for yours. None. Your beliefs are patterns of brain chemistry. There is no evidence for any deity. In fact St. Paul said saith was a gift. If there was any evidence faith would not be necessary. You choose to abandon reason because other patterns of brain chemistry provide you with sufficient reward(s) for doing so.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:36 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          The humans who assembled the Genesis creation myths from the circulating myths in the ancient Near East of course MEANT them to be taken literally. They reflect precisely what that culture thought it knew about the cosmos at that time. You can squirm your way around that any way you try to rationalize it. The insights are no more special than any ancient myth systems. The texts of the Bible were assembles by the Hebrew priests in Babylon before they returned from the Exile, (as any scholar knows), and they reflect the many influences of the Babylonian myth system. The Torah of Moses was introduced by Ezra at the Fall Festival as described in Nehemiah. Much much later humans VOTED (non-unanimously) what would become the canon (Ta Biblia) or the Bible. There is nothing unique about Hebrew literature. It flowed from and reflected the culture that produced is, just as any literature did.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:44 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Good for you and your brain patterns. Faith is trust and confidence in someone or something. That intelligence that designed your brain patterns – that is the intelligence I have faith in. I choose to call Him God.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:50 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          "All kinds of people make all kinds of claims. "

          And then you make your own kind of claim? And demonstrate the same thing you critcize others for doing? What? There is that hypocrisy again.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:54 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I don't think Jesus ever mentioned it needed to be taken literally. I've been taught differently than what you suggest. I've been taught differing viewpoints – but the idea that the story – with a talking snake and a fruit tree that contains knowledge – is supposed to be taken literally? Nope. Sorry.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:58 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          In that ORIGIN story:

          Adam and Eve believe a voice other than God. They disobey God. Then they hide from God. They lie to God. They feel shame.

          That shame they feel: it has an ORIGIN. And it is not from God. Shame kept Adam and Eve from the truth as it has continued to keep all of us from the truth. So Eve blames the serpent, and Adam blames Eve and the shaming continues and God’s forgiveness is simply not allowed to take hold.

          What if Adam and Eve had just admitted they did wrong? We are told by religion it is a story of disobedience, but it is also a story on how they reacted to their disobedience. They lied. They shifted blame. They hid.

          This still goes on in human beings today. We all have blind spots. We can't see this in ourselves, that is why it is called blind spots.

          God can help us with this.

          June 2, 2014 at 11:09 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          And your blind spot is how illogical the whole bible is.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:30 am |
      • bostontola

        I didn't say you had no evidence, I said you have no objective evidence. That was the whole point of my (admittedly too long) post. Individual humans are poor at getting facts right regarding verifiable facts in the physical world due to the limitations and errors in their senses and intellectual processing abilities. Why would it be any better for unverifiable things in the non-physical world? Like I said, it's one thing to have faith and believe things, it's another to know something. You apparently have an extraordinary degree of trust in your personal senses and ability to know things. I don't have that.

        June 2, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          You post well thought out personal philosophies and theories. I'm glad those belief comforts you and helps you lead a good life. But they really are not that helpful to me. I've held similar beliefs, but today they are insufficient for my life. I have to be honest: I know God exists. If that upsets a few guys and gals posting in the message board section of a religion blog: I'm not surprised in the least bit!

          June 2, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • bostontola

          Did you detect upset on my part in the post? I'm not the least bit upset. I am fascinated by the phenomenon that a person thinks they know something solely based on internal feelings. the notion that you those feelings enough to declare you 'know' something based on them fascinates me.

          June 2, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I think your premise is wrong. My knowledge is not based on just internal feelings. I don't think you sound upset, you just don't seem to know what you are talking about.

          But you sure do seem to have some strong internal feelings yourself on the matter!

          June 2, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
        • bostontola

          Now I'm really interested. Please fill me in on the evidence you have in God beyond your internal feelings.

          June 2, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          That is what I try to share this whole time.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • bostontola

          BTW, I didn't say I didn't have strong internal feelings on things. I said I didn't trust them enough to say I know something is true based solely on them.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:12 pm |
        • bostontola

          You've shared many things regarding your beliefs, I can't recall any objective evidence for them. I'm sorry if it makes you repeat something, but please share this evidence that is beyond your internal feeling/knowing.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          One simple example: when I serve God's people (the poor, widowed, imprisoned, refugees), I see evidence of God.

          Sorry, but when I read your posts I just see evidence of your internal feelings. Do you imagine you are somehow providing objective evidence yourself? You are not.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:28 pm |
        • bostontola

          I'll say it again. I have strong internal feelings. I don't trust them as objective evidence.

          You see evidence of God. I believe you do. But that is an internal feeling by you.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Actually God can reveal himself in ways that operate outside your personal standards and opinions. Look, it is amazing stuff. I wouldn't believe it without experiencing it and witnessing it myself. For myself, once I started to keep an open-mind and become honest with myself, God was able to show me things I was incapable of seeing before. It was done is his way, not my way. And not the internet message board poster's way.

          June 2, 2014 at 2:56 pm |
        • Madtown

          For myself, once I started to keep an open-mind and become honest with myself, God was able to show me things I was incapable of seeing before
          If you changed personal behavioral patterns, which was your choice, how do you know that it wasn't just your new perspective that enlightened you on the specifics? How do you "know" for certain it was God, and why is the christian God the correct version to follow?

          June 2, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
        • bostontola

          I'm not disputing that you have experienced exactly what you say, I believe you, you seem like an earnest fellow. Please re-read my comments. I am not commenting on whether you are right or not. I'm not even saying I'm right. My entire set of comments in this string relates only to the notion that I don't 'know' things based solely on my personal experience. I can believe things based on personal experience. To know things, I require objective evidence that has been verified with due diligence. My comments simply said I find it fascinating that some people can 'know' things that haven't been through that due diligence. I said they must have more trust in their human senses and intellect than I do. Again, I believe you.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          There are other ways of knowing. Look at our brain: we have a logical side and an imaginative side to our brains. Something – God or evolution – found it necessary for us to have that. Truths about God, ourselves and this world can be expressed and learned in ways you aren't allowing. I'm not so sure your theory, while important and useful for you, works for everyone.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:12 pm |
        • bostontola

          "Truths about God, ourselves and this world can be expressed and learned in ways you aren't allowing."
          –I must be communicating very poorly. I haven't disallowed anything. I tried to be explicit and say I wasn't commenting on correctness or incorrectness. I merely said I was fascinated that some people can 'know' something based solely on personal experience. Your protestation makes me think you are being very defensive.

          "I'm not so sure your theory, while important and useful for you, works for everyone."
          –I've presented no theory, or hypothesis that is useful to me or anyone else. I merely observe the different ways some people perceive or achieve the sensation of 'knowing'.

          You keep returning to a mystical openness you believe you have to 'knowing' God. Every example you gave was exactly as I commented on, it is a personal experience that is internal to you. I'm not commenting on whether that is valid or not. I have similar experiences. They form the basis of some of my beliefs. They don't form the basis of what I experience as 'knowing' something.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I don't agree with your claim that I know something based solely on personal experience. I'm just disagreeing with you. I call it a theory because you seem to be theorizing about things you don't know about. You might be right. You might be wrong. I don't agree with your theory you provided. I don't know how else to describe it. Not all people hold the same views you hold. You are sharing your opinion.

          June 2, 2014 at 6:07 pm |
        • bostontola

          Of course I'm sharing my opinion, what else would I share?

          The only assertion I made is that you and some others are experiencing 'knowing' something based on personal experience. Every example you gave fell into that description. If you provide me evidence that isn't limited by your personal experience (which as I've said is suspect, just like every other human myself included) and has objective validated evidence, then I'll be wrong and will gladly reconsider my atheism.

          June 2, 2014 at 6:18 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I don't know how you know we are basing things only on personal experience. I guess you are just speculating.

          June 2, 2014 at 6:55 pm |
        • bostontola

          I don't know, I've said that over and over. As I said, all your examples so far fall into that category. Provide with with some objective evidence that isn't just your personal experience and I'll be wrong and happily accept that.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:10 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Do you have objective evidence that objective evidence is the best means to know something? You provided some analogies, but no objective evidence to support that claim. God certainly has revealed to me that He exists. I know individuals that are masters in the fields that relate to objective evidence, and they believe in God. Sounds like a personal issue that you are expressing. You also sound very self-centered in your approach. Try seeking God selflessly or humbly? Keep an open mind. If I'm wrong, my bad. I'm just expressing how I went from atheist me to God believing me.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:20 pm |
        • bostontola

          You seem to be getting testy, I'm sorry. I never said objective evidence is better or worse. I just said that you seem to base 'knowing' God on personal experience (i.e. subjective evidence). There is objective evidence that subjective experience is not accurate. There have been many experiments showing that people perceive things in a very inaccurate way. That memory is inaccurate. That intellectual processing is often in error. That doesn't mean that it is not good or even better than objective only.

          I keep saying this but I'll try again. I'm just commenting on the observation that some people perceive 'knowing' without objective evidence. I gave no value judgment on that at all. I added that I don't experience 'knowing' in that way. I didn't try to say that is superior. The comments have been on how fascinating it is the people seem to experience 'knowing' in different ways.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
        • hawaiiguest


          You have a wonderful way of typing a lot and saying absolutely nothing substantial.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:35 pm |
        • Madtown

          Do you have objective evidence that objective evidence is the best means to know something?
          LOL. Keep going, this is good stuff.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:47 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I'm not feeling testy. And you sound testy to me... hmmm. I've got people suggesting that I'm mentally ill because I believe in God. Or am suffering from mental damage. Others claim I'm the victim of brain washing. Or I'm just a victim of social pressure. I don't see any body questioning their various theories. Some are down right disgusting theories meant to insult, not help, if you ask me.

          I'm sorry if I'm associating you with my standard interaction with atheists on this blog. I have to remind myself constantly that most atheists are not like this. Most are kind and generous, not mean and spiteful. For some reason this blog brings that out in some of us (me included).

          I'm just trying to help you see from my viewpoint. God has provided evidence that is greater than the theory you are providing about your opinions. I see a lot of people on here claim they are reasonable and are big fans of objective evidence. Yet they spend a lot of time on a blog dedicated to faith, belief in God and religion. I don't think any of the spend much time on blogs dedicated to objective evidence. Probably because objective evidence reveals physical facts. It tells us how things go. But it doesn't explain why. People are looking for meaning. Purpose. Direction.

          Objective evidence points to order. Order points to intelligence. Intelligence points to God for me. Plus I've experienced things that objective evidence can not explain. And most atheists try to insult me when I share those stories.

          I wish I could invite you to see what I see in my life. I definitely am testing my theories. I don't just spend all day writing on blogs. I look for evidence in what people do. I want what I see people in my community doing. Helping others, serving and acting humble in their life. Most of these people testify that God helps them do these things.

          On here, what do a lot people who don't believe in God testify about? Nothing. They just criticize others and don't seem to do much else. I don't really want what they have.

          June 2, 2014 at 8:00 pm |
      • tallulah131

        You believe god exists. Never confuse that with knowing.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:00 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I know God exists. He is real.

          You are free to believe differently.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:02 pm |
        • fintronics

          Dala... you claim "I know" well then present your evidence. You have not done so. in that case it's "I believe" not "I know"

          June 4, 2014 at 8:33 am |
  8. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    OCD= a form of mental illness... religion= a form of mental illness... combine the two and you get a Southern Baptist or a Christian Fundamentalist or a Born-again Christian. All the same kind of crazy/insane really.

    June 2, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Religion does not equal mental illness. I'm guessing, but I can only imagine you are not qualified to determine what mental illness is and isn't.

      1. Even if well-intended, the equation fails

      "I hope that most atheists who claim religion is a mental illness don’t intend it as an insult, and instead have a confused understanding of mental illness or religion. Either way, the truth is that religion isn’t a form of mental illness."

      2. Mental illness is not an insult

      "Calling religion a form of mental illness as a way to insult believers is not only crude and wrong—it also contributes to a culture that marginalizes people with mental illness and defines them solely by their illness. Atheists, agnostics, and Humanists should actively promote dignity for all people and strive to challenge dehumanization, rather than contribute to it."

      3. Religion is often associated with wellbeing

      “When it comes to facilitating mental health, empirical data demonstrates that religious people have more positive emotion, more meaning in life, more life satisfaction, cope better with trauma, are more physically healthy, are more altruistic and socially connected, and are not diagnosed with mental illness more than other people.”

      4. This parallel distracts us from trying to understand and learn from religion

      “Calling religion a mental illness keeps us from asking serious questions about what actually does attract people to religion,” said Mogilevsky, who recently published a lengthy piece challenging atheists who call religion a mental illness. “[It’s] a convenient way to avoid thinking about what we could actually be doing to make the secular community more welcoming and inclusive, and what sorts of resources we are lacking that people can find in religious communities.”

      5. Atheists and theists share in the challenges of being human –

      See more at: http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2014/02/24/5-reasons-atheists-shouldnt-call-religion-mental-illness/#sthash.ElF9MyUh.dpuf

      June 2, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        Studies derived from religious websites is next to useless. Religiosity is comparable to neurological damage/mental illness. I was not making fun of mental illness, and I can equally pull up websites that confirm my view. These are just a couple of examples:

        Being 'Born-Again' Linked to More Brain Atrophy: Study http://www.philly.com/philly/health/132456883.html

        Kathleen Taylor, Neuroscientist, Says Religious Fundamentalism Could Be Treated As A Mental Illness http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/kathleen-taylor-religious-fundamentalism-mental-illness_n_3365896.html

        June 2, 2014 at 1:10 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Nice guess, but it is not a religious website making the claim.

          There are also studies that link atheism with mental illness. But making the broad statement that religion or atheism is mental illness is pretty childish.

          June 2, 2014 at 1:24 pm |
        • igaftr

          no dala, there are no studies linking atheism to mental illness.
          The study you are referring to links AUTISM with atheism. Autism is not a mental illness.
          It has also been shown that autistic people have more logical brains, they can be good computer programmers/analysts etc. It is the logic that requires verification of claims of a religious nature that makes it difficult for autistic people to accept, also those that are not higher functioning, do not accept the religious claims, since they do not comprehend them. Some autistics have a great deal of trouble with basic communication, so are not primed for the indoctrination and brainwashing techniques used by religious zealots.

          There are no studies that I could find linking any mental illness.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:32 pm |
        • igaftr

          Allow me to correct myself. There are studies, but they do not show any SOLID information, most simply link to depression, but the overall point of most of these studies is inconclusive, since a great deal of the information is subjective. For instance, most of these studied did not look at religoiusness, most looked at ONLY christianity. And likelwise, most of the atheists studied live in the christian oppression that is America,.

          In the end , there is a great deal of information that says basically, maybe.
          Some of the studies show Catholics and protestants are likely more depressed or to have a significant mental issue than atheists, but atheists maore likely to be alcoholics.

          Far too many variables to make it any form of debate.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:03 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I don't think religion or atheism is indicative of mental illness. I do know atheists that suffer from mental illness. Just as I know Christians that suffer from mental illness.

          Suggesting, as the OP did, that all religious people are mentally ill is silly. It is something you would expect to hear from an anti-theist as an insult on a religion message board. Look at what he posts. And you have a problem with me?

          June 2, 2014 at 5:15 pm |
        • Lucifer's Evil Twin

          Ok, religion is mostly brain-damage vs. mental illness... feel better now?

          June 2, 2014 at 6:27 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I feel fine.

          Religion isn't brain damage, either. I doubt you can find any credible websites or scholars that would back that claim.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:22 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Can you provide evidence that supports your expertise?

          June 2, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        I also don't really give a crap what a wannabe pogue atheist Miri Mogilevsky 'mental health advocate' believes... but I do know that she doesn't speak for me.

        June 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I see evidence she has better qualifications to speak on the subject.

          Unless you can provide evidence that supports your expertise?

          June 2, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • fintronics

          You have a lot of nerve asking someone to provide evidence when you have been asked time and time again to provide evidence for your claims of "knowing god" and you have provided nothing but your internal feelings.... your imagination..

          June 3, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
  9. Dyslexic doG

    we are all born as atheists

    then the mental abuse begins when parents and priests brainwash impressionable children with bronze age fairy stories and the threat of eternal fire and torment if they don't believe. The rituals and endless recitation of phrases, the fear vs. reward, the surrounding with other "believers" ... all classic cult indoctrination methods.

    This is looked at as child abuse unless you label it a religion and then it is OK.

    religion is a cancer of the human race.

    June 2, 2014 at 10:51 am |
    • hotairace


      June 2, 2014 at 11:05 am |
  10. Reality

    And the cure for OCDs that have a religious aspect:

    Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless and effective !!!

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

    June 2, 2014 at 10:46 am |
  11. James XCIX

    ""First I had to get rid of all my sins, ask forgiveness, do it in the right way..."

    Those last words, "do it in the right way", explain the unfortunate situation we have with so many different sects of the same religion, all seeming to be hung up on how one needs to act, believe, and even think, the "right way", with those who don't deserving eternal torment as punishment. Sad.

    June 2, 2014 at 9:44 am |
    • new-man

      "at the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God.
      As Peter says : our beloved brother Paul has written some things which are hard to understand; and the unlearned and unstable twist [these things] as they do also the other scriptures, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION."
      because they're unlearned/ignorant of Scriptures.

      The commands of God are NOT burdensome. So if anyone is living under guilt, shame, and condemnation, know that this is NOT of God, because God imputed all your SINS to Jesus therefore you are now seen as righteous and holy by a HOLY God who sees His Son when He looks at you.

      June 2, 2014 at 10:52 am |
      • Madtown

        The commands of God are NOT burdensome
        Indeed. They can't be a burden, when we're unaware of what they are!

        June 2, 2014 at 11:14 am |
      • James XCIX

        "because they're unlearned/ignorant of Scriptures."

        One can conclude one or more things from such a statement.

        First, one must be literate )in order to lose one's ignorance of scriptures).

        Or, one must rely completely on someone else having read the scriptures correctly and passing on what they've learned correctly.

        Or, one is better off never hearing about Jesus at all, since it seems one is not at risk of eternal torment in such a case, but is at risk is one hears or reads about Jesus but gets the wrong ideas about him as a result.

        June 2, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • new-man

          one becomes ignorant of scriptures by:
          1. not reading scripture for themselves but solely relying on man's interpretation without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
          2. one doesn't need to be literate in order to have scripture expounded to them. This also is a work of the Holy Spirit.
          People don't have because they fail to ask. Most think it's silly or crazy, but you know what do the silly, do the crazy and you'd be amazed at the working of the Holy Spirit.

          Most people erroneously believe that they must be perfect right here right now. No. The believers life is one of course-correction. No one will get it right the first, second, third, etc. time. However, each time there's a failure, one should learn from that failure by asking God where they went wrong, and it will be revealed to them.
          God honors obedience – there's something that happens when one obeys the word of God. Realities that were once unseen and ones that once seem illogical or impossible begins to open up to them. Suddenly the impossible becomes logical.

          ***"Or, one is better off never hearing about Jesus at all, since it seems one is not at risk of eternal torment in such a case, but is at risk is one hears or reads about Jesus but gets the wrong ideas about him as a result."

          This is wrong thinking/belief.
          The person who knows of Jesus now, is the person who has the capacity to live a victorious life right here, right now in this earth, even before they get to heaven. Such a person knows their inheritance and can live that inheritance right here- they can demonstrate the kingdom of God to the nations by healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons etc.

          Even with a sin-nature mankind has the capacity to love some/a few. Jesus is a righteous judge, full of love, wisdom, light and life, why then do you fear that He will judge unjustly a person who has never heard of Him?

          June 3, 2014 at 10:46 am |
        • James XCIX

          new-man – Just curious, do you believe that those who never hear or read about Jesus can wind up in heaven? If so, what determines whether or not they do?

          June 3, 2014 at 1:59 pm |
        • observer


          In many cases it is actually knowledge of the scriptures that creates atheists and agnostics.

          June 3, 2014 at 10:52 am |
        • Dyslexic doG

          In the words of Isaac Asimov: "Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."

          June 3, 2014 at 10:56 am |
        • Madtown

          not reading scripture for themselves but solely relying on man's interpretation
          Human beings wrote scripture. Human beings read scripture. Human beings interpret scripture. Human being then tell other human beings they don't "correctly" interpret scripture, when differences of opinion arise. Comedy.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:35 pm |
  12. Vic

    While OCD has many forms, this article concerns OCD stemming from 'scrupulosity' or 'scrupulousness,' that is living up to a high standard.

    Also, while things can get out of hand, I believe we are equipped to discern a natural balance in everything before needing an outside help.

    As for me, with the fear of doom comes the hope of Salvation—Faith; therefore, I trust and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 11:28-30

    p.s. I believe scrupulous OCD can also happen on the job.

    June 2, 2014 at 9:33 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      " I believe scrupulous OCD can also happen on the job."
      Surely you don't mean a workplace can cause someone to have OCD?

      OCD is a medical problem. It doesn't have anything to do with religion, other than as this article suggests people with OCD might develop compulsive habits based on aspects of their faith.

      June 2, 2014 at 9:53 am |
      • Vic

        Yes, I understand, that's what I opened up with, OCD has many forms of which those due to scrupulousness. Religious demands, job requirements, peer pressure, etc., can all be triggers for Obsessive Compulsive Behaviors while not necessarily the cause of them.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:02 am |
        • G to the T

          "OCD has many forms of which those due to scrupulousness"

          It still sounds like you're saying it backwards (but that may be just my perception).

          Not "due to", "expresses as". The condition exists first (OCD) and then manifests in different ways, one of which is scrupulousness.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:36 am |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          @G to the T


          June 2, 2014 at 11:50 am |
        • Vic

          No problem.

          I am referring to the "form" that is "due to," scrupulousness in this case. I believe "triggered by" would be clearer.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
    • Madtown

      I trust and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ
      "That's cool that this works for you. I trust in the spiritual and religious traditions and notions that are common in my culture, you've never heard of them. We're a lot alike in that way."

      – from, your friend who lives in a different part of this world

      June 2, 2014 at 10:42 am |
  13. Reality

    Hmmm, it is obvious that this blog's "traffic" has about fifty people (me included) who make comments at least ten times a day. Are we suffering from a new form of OCD?? Is there a cure??

    Considering that CNN is paying two full time editors/moderators to keep this disorder going, we the sufferers must have a large reading/ad-exposing audience? And if so, should not we get paid by CNN for without us there would be no blog?

    June 2, 2014 at 12:10 am |
    • ddeevviinn

      I would be more than willing to accept royalties.

      " Are we suffering from a new form of OCD"

      I think not. I find it refreshing that even in the midst of the heated rhetoric on this site, there is an exchange of substantive thoughts and ideas that is becoming harder to find in our current culture. The masses seem enamored with debating the merits of the latest en vogue sitcom, reality show, or sports team . While not necessarily wrong, I find it to be something less. Although at times it can be difficult navigating through the comments of the borderline sociopaths ( both sides of the fence) the effort for now seems both worth it and of value.

      June 2, 2014 at 2:39 am |
      • G to the T

        I'd agree with that assessment Devin. For me, it's an interest (hobbies cost money) but as is doesn't interfere with any other aspect of my life (other than some potentially "wasted" time), I feel it's a healthy one.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:38 am |
    • gruphy

      I believe you in particular suffer it. Anyone who can post the same nonsense for the 2 yrs I have been here does.

      June 2, 2014 at 2:42 am |
      • Reality

        Nonsense? How so? Thu-mping the books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, for thousands of years, like they were the words of god, now that is nonsense.

        And once again to correct some of this religious nonsense:

        The Apostles' Creed 2014: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

        Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
        and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
        human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

        I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
        preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
        named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
        girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

        Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
        the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

        He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
        a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of

        Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
        many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
        and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
        Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
        grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
        and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
        called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

        (references used are available upon request)

        June 2, 2014 at 7:13 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Reality: Ignore this person, as is evident from his other posts he is nothing but a hypocrite. He claims to have been posting for two years, so that leaves the question of what other aliases he has been using given how this present alias is not familiar.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:26 am |
    • tallulah131

      Do you compelled to post here because you feel if you don't something terrible will happen? Is is something that you cannot control? If not, then you don't suffer from OCD. People like to pretend that OCD is something to joke about, but for those who suffer from it, the joke is not funny.

      June 2, 2014 at 3:23 am |
      • ddeevviinn


        I'm curious, is this how you feel? Obviously you do not need to answer the question, but if you are open to it, I would be interested in learning how it plays out for you.

        June 2, 2014 at 3:32 am |
        • tallulah131

          Sorry this took so long to answer. I didn't see this until today, but I'm more than willing to answer, because the more people know, the more they understand.

          Anyway, I'm a checker. I check the stove, the thermostat, plug-ins, and even light switches because these are things that might cause a fire, and my irrational fear is that if I don't make sure everything is off, my house will burn down and my cats (my responsibilities) will die. I have to go back and check, because I don't trust that I checked right the first time. Or the second time, etc. I'll get up in the middle of the night to check. I've come home from work at lunch to check when my symptoms were particularly bad.

          Sometimes it takes me 45 minutes to get out of the house, and I have a similar process for leaving work. Because if I don't check, the place where I work might burn down (former place. I just got laid off.). It fluctuates. Sometimes it barely bothers me at all. Sometimes I want to cry because I can't break out of the loop.

          It's irrational as hell, I know it's irrational and I've been mocked by people I respect because it's irrational. So I learned to laugh about it and do my best to educate others. Because I have a nephew who suffers from OCD, too, and he does not deserve to be mocked.

          I hope you read this and it helps you understand a little better. And thanks for asking.

          June 5, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
  14. thefinisher1

    I've never heard of a crack head say atheism saved their lives. Hmmm. I wonder why! 😜

    June 1, 2014 at 10:29 pm |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      They aren't stupid enough to start smoking crack I guess.

      June 1, 2014 at 10:51 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      That makes as much sense as you saying you would expect someone without a mechanic to say their car got repaired.
      You really can't be THAT dumb. You really are a POE right ? That kind of stupidity is incompatible with life.

      June 1, 2014 at 11:28 pm |
    • thesamyaza

      a crack head really that's the kinda people your going to point out to, your right your religion is for addicts and idiots.

      June 2, 2014 at 12:48 am |
      • gruphy

        Idiot! Don't u know the difference between "your" and "you're"?

        June 2, 2014 at 4:22 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Did the misspelled word hurt your feelings? Geez, such a small minded thing to get upset over!

          June 2, 2014 at 4:53 am |
        • Akira

          Can't you type out "you " when chastising someone on their grammar?

          June 2, 2014 at 12:24 pm |
    • saggyroy

      And I have never seen an amputee get healed either. I wonder why.

      June 2, 2014 at 5:24 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      One thing I can tell you as a recovering addict is that God had nothing to do with me getting clean.
      The support of my family, changing environments and plain old will power are what did it.

      June 2, 2014 at 8:20 am |
      • colin31714

        What was your substance of choice, if you don't mind sharing?

        June 2, 2014 at 9:57 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          In my teen years, I sampled just about everything (save for opiates, primarily because I'm allergic to codeine).
          I spent the age of 17 floating around on hallucinogens, primarily LSD and mushrooms, but it was stimulants that posed the greatest problem for me. Speed was my favourite, but when I couldn't get my hands on it I started taking whatever stimulants I could get. Ephedrine, dexedrine, ritalin, meth, coke (didn't like coke too much as it is too expensive and doesn't last very long).
          By the time I was twenty, I wasn't in very good shape. I managed to do relatively well academically, but was in a downward spiral physically and emotionally. My peers were dropping like flies from overdoses and suicides and I realized I had to stop or I'd likely suffer the same fate.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:16 am |
        • colin31714

          Well, congratulations for getting through it, Doc. I expect overcoming an addiction is a tough road to walk, one only a person who has dealt with it can really appreciate.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          It was my family that got me through.
          Despite all I'd done to them, they still helped me change my environment and seemingly had an endless supply of patience.
          During my first few shaky weeks, I came home from the pub with a burst mouth (8 stiches worth) and my dad drove me to the hospital with nary a rebuke.
          I was a bitter, misanthropic shut in, but my family not only put up with it, they pulled me out of it.

          And never once was there mention of God, prayer, or NA.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:35 am |
        • snuffleupagus

          Doc V, I'm very happy for you and your family! It takes alot of will power and strength of chaacter to get through your addictions. I give you and your family credit and a tip of the hat. Quitting cigarettes was hard for me, but I can not imagine what you went through. Stay strong, Doc!

          June 2, 2014 at 12:15 pm |
    • igaftr

      hey finisher, just how many crack heads do you interact with on a regular basis?

      June 2, 2014 at 9:21 am |
    • G to the T

      "I've never heard of a crack head say atheism saved their lives. Hmmm. I wonder why!"

      Maybe not, but I have heard some say Scientology saved their lives... Hmmm...

      June 2, 2014 at 10:40 am |
  15. Doris

    Letting go of superstition

    from "50 Renowned Academics Speaking About God"

    [after discussing inevitable galactic & terrestrial destructive forces out there that want to kill us] "..none of this is a sign that there is a benevolent anything out there…" –Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, host of "Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey"

    "..but to me saying that there was a designer does not help at all.." –Alan Guth, MIT professor of physics

    "..I'm not militant by nature – and if people want to believe, well then that's their business; I mean what concerns me is when belief is used to influence and corrupt education or politics. And it seems to me monstrous that Creationism or so-called intelligent design is taught next to evolution or instead of it. And I do think that it is almost as a form of madness." –Oliver Sacks, world-renowned neurologist, Columbia University

    "I think a lot of theology is grappling with phantoms. So theologians have invented this almost self-consistent subject which has no contact with physical reality at all. And they invent all sorts of questions which they then taunt humanity with . One of them is cosmic purpose. They say 'there must be a purpose; you and your science can't explain it.' And typical of theologians, they don't respect the power of the human intellect anyway. And they infer that no one will ever understand it; it is ineffable; God's purpose cannot be discerned. And of course that's – those are fine words, but utterly meaningless–why should the thing have a purpose?" –Peter Atkins, world-reknowned Oxford professor of chemistry

    "M-Theory doesn't disprove God, but it does make him unnecessary. It predicts that the universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing without the need for a creator." –Stephen Hawking, Cambridge theoretical physicist

    "Another thing which I think that science, of any kind, teaches us is that even the simplest things are hard to understand: the hydrogen atom, for instance. And that makes me rather suspicious of anyone who claims to have a quick and easy answer to any deep aspect of reality. I think the most we can hope for in an incomplete and metaphorical understanding. And therefore, I'm not myself someone who can accept any specific religious dogmas." –Lord Martin Rees, Astronomer Royal

    June 1, 2014 at 8:13 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Those who say that the study of science makes a man an atheist must be rather silly.”

      “Something which is against natural laws seems to me rather out of the question because it would be a depressive idea about God. It would make God smaller than he must be assumed. When he stated that these laws hold, then they hold, and he wouldn’t make exceptions. This is too human an idea. Humans do such things, but not God.”

      –Nobel Prize winning physicist Max Born, who was instrumental in the development of quantum mechanics.

      “God is a mathematician of a very high order and He used advanced mathematics in constructing the universe.”

      –Nobel Prize winning physicist Paul A. M. Dirac, who made crucial early contributions to both quantum mechanics and quantum electrodynamics.

      “Science can have no quarrel with a religion which postulates a God to whom men are His children.”

      –Arthur Compton, winner of the 1927 Nobel Prize in Physics for his discovery of the Compton Effect.

      “A scientific discovery is also a religious discovery. There is no conflict between science and religion. Our knowledge of God is made larger with every discovery we make about the world.”

      –Joseph H. Taylor, Jr., who received the 1993 Nobel Prize in Physics for the discovery of the first known binary pulsar, and for his work which supported the Big Bang theory of the creation of the universe.

      “It may seem bizarre, but in my opinion science offers a surer path to God than religion.”

      –Physicist Paul Davies, the winner of the 2001 Kelvin Medal issued by the Insttute of Physics and the winner of the 2002 Faraday Prize issued by the Royal Society (amongst other awards), as cited in his book God and the New Physics.

      “Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that all this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover…. That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.”

      –Astronomer, physicist and founder of NASA’s Goddard Insttute of Space Studies Robert Jastrow. Please see Jastrow’s book God and the Astronomers for further reading.

      “There can never be any real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complement of the other. Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And indeed it was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were deeply religious souls.”

      –Max Planck, the Nobel Prize winning physicist considered to be the founder of quantum theory, and one of the most important physicists of the 20th century, indeed of all time.

      “As we conquer peak after peak we see in front of us regions full of interest and beauty, but we do not see our goal, we do not see the horizon; in the distance tower still higher peaks, which will yield to those who ascend them still wider prospects, and deepen the feeling, the truth of which is emphasized by every advance in science, that ‘Great are the Works of the Lord’.”

      –Sir Joseph J. Thomson, Nobel Prize winning physicist, discoverer of the electron, founder of atomic physics.

      “Science is incompetent to reason upon the creation of matter itself out of nothing. We have reached the utmost limit of our thinking faculties when we have admitted that because matter cannot be eternal and self-existent it must have been created.”

      –Physicist and mathematician James Clerk Maxwell, who is credited with formulating classical electromagnetic theory and whose contributions to science are considered to be of the same magnitude to those of Einstein and Newton.

      “For myself, faith begins with a realization that a supreme intelligence brought the universe into being and created man. It is not difficult for me to have this faith, for it is incontrovertible that where there is a plan there is intelligence—an orderly, unfolding universe testifies to the truth of the most majestic statement ever uttered—-’In the beginning God.’”

      June 1, 2014 at 9:43 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Thanks for demonstrating what in Logic is called the Argumentum ad Vericundiam fallacy, or the Fallacy of Argument from Authority. The FACT is most scientists, professors of Philosophy, including Philosophers of Religion, (I think the number is 75 %), and 85 % of the National Academy of Science are non-believers. None of the people you list are experts in religion, the history of religion, Comparative Philosophy, Comparative Religion, the history of the ancient Near East, or any culture, or the Evolution of Religion. It's not their field of expertise. Their opinions on any subject other than what they specialized in, are no more valid than anyone else's. Even Einstein made many mistakes. Your failed attempt to cherry pick a few (supposedly) smart people to try to infer that religion is reasonable because they once did in the past, is just that. Failure.

        Anyone who questions the premise of this article, go to Catholic Answers and see for yourself. Search for "scrupulosity", and see what these delusional people actually worry about. Many many people obsessed with religious detail, (as if the creator of 600 se'xtillion starts could actually give a rip what people ate, or whether certain ancient dietary laws were kept, or not) post their anxieties. They need help. It's a symptom of something else.

        June 1, 2014 at 10:12 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Considering what Doris posted, there seems to be a double standard at play on your part.

          June 1, 2014 at 10:19 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Most scientists believe in God, a universal spirit or higher power.


          June 1, 2014 at 10:20 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Like what Doris posted, these renowned academics are talking about God. They just draw a different conclusion than the ones Doris posted.

          June 1, 2014 at 10:25 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          It doesn't matter what they believe. It's not their field of expertise.

          Considering how distrusted they are, (which is changing fast) you cannot really know what percent of them told the truth.
          I know for fact that a large percent of my Ivy League Religious Studies Dept are atheists. They know too much about the cults to take any one seriously.

          June 1, 2014 at 10:48 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          You seem to be slipping into the same argument from authority you were criticizing me about.

          You don't have to have a college degree or an expertise in a field to have knowledge about God. Their opinion on God is just as valid as your opinion.

          Doris provided Stephen Hawking as an example. Great mind when it comes to science. But his personal philosophy that science disproves there is no intelligence behind the order of the universe? Nah. I disagree.

          June 1, 2014 at 11:09 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Unfortunately for you, I'm a grad student in the field. And your objection proves you don't know what the fallacy is. It IS THEIR field of expertise.

          June 1, 2014 at 11:30 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          It is not a logical fallacy to reply to a poster who posts quotes from scientists who do not believe in God with quotes from scientists who do believe in God.

          And yet again, your post is now demonstrating the Fallacy of Argument from Authority. I don't care what you think you are, you are not immune from committing the same logical fallacies that you accuse me of committing. That also demonstrates hypocrisy.

          June 1, 2014 at 11:38 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "Most scientists believe in God, a universal spirit or higher power. "

          So what? That still doesn't prove god exists. All that does is show that the majority of the worlds population believe in a god, it still doesn't make one factual.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:44 am |
        • gulliblenomore

          And....most people that live in trailer parks believe in god. Again....so what?

          June 2, 2014 at 10:12 am |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Most scientists believe in God, a universal spirit or higher power.
          A bit misleading on your part there Dalahäst – unless you usually define "most" as 51%. Only 33% actually believe in God. More accurately stated, "about half of scientists believe in God, a universal spirit or higher power".

          An equally valid conclusion from the survey data is that scientists are ten times more likely than the average member of the public to be an atheist.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:24 am |
        • realbuckyball

          You really need to look up the definition of the fallacy in question, and then go get some help in applying it. If THIS demonstrates you ability to think, in any way, all I can say is, "well, no wonder".

          June 2, 2014 at 9:24 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Sadly, this does not work for people who suffer from OCD. "Letting go" is something we dream of.

      June 1, 2014 at 10:24 pm |
  16. Doris

    When I hear about any atheists from this democratic country traveling from here to another country specifically to incite killing and jailing of people based on their world views, I will speak out on it just as loudly as I am about some Christians who have been doing just that within recent years. When I hear about atheists within this democratic country performing honor killings here based on their world views, I will speak out on it just as loudly as I do about some Muslims who have been doing just that within the U.S.

    But I'm not hearing about any atheists from this country traveling elsewhere within the past several years with the intent to incite violence. I haven't heard of any atheists performing honor killings here based on their world view within the U.S. Those activities involving U.S. citizens in recent years have involved Christians and Muslims.

    June 1, 2014 at 8:12 pm |
    • gruphy

      Once upon a time a Swedish Atheist threw a bomb in Sweden. A certain young man shot up 6 pple in California and oh so many more!

      June 2, 2014 at 3:15 am |
      • TruthPrevails1

        You're an idiot! The California kids beliefs have NEVER been mentioned, nor do they matter-he was mentally ill and had numerous underlying reasons that he thought justified his actions but I'm guessing you don't pay attention to the news.
        As for the Swedish thing...point to the evidence.
        "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. " Steven Weinberg

        June 2, 2014 at 4:42 am |
  17. Vic

    Matthew 11:28-30

    "28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”" (NASB)

    I trust and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    June 1, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
    • sam stone

      yep, vic, the yoke is on you

      June 1, 2014 at 8:05 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Apparently that doesn't work for people whose OCD manifests as religious fear. In fact, it seems to be quite the opposite.

      June 1, 2014 at 10:23 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      I'm sure they prayed to be released. Yet they weren't. I thought if they asked anything in his name it would be given them ?

      June 1, 2014 at 10:52 pm |
    • Reality

      Another historically nil "th-umptation". See http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb052.html for added details to include why even a professor from Notre Dame puts a "thumb down" on said passage.

      June 1, 2014 at 11:45 pm |
  18. thefinisher1

    I've never heard of a crack head say atheism saved their lives. Hmm. I wonder why! 😜

    June 1, 2014 at 7:50 pm |
    • sam stone

      because it's easier to get people with addictive personalities to switch drugs (crack or alcohol to jeebus) than to get them to give up drugs altogether

      June 1, 2014 at 8:04 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        Which proves atheism has ZERO power to do anything. Atheism is weak. Get over it, kid.

        June 1, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Looks like someone needs anger management. Are you ok? Do you believe that taking your anger out on people you don't know is a good idea? Atheism is pathetic. Grow up, kid. Time to start acting like a mature adult. Leave your delusion behind you! It gets better!😜

          June 1, 2014 at 8:18 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          What an idiotic thing to do. But thanks for proving your assertion that Atheism is a belief system, is in fact not true. If it were, it would have at least some placebo effect. Since you state it has no effect, then you must agree it is not a belief system. Why would anyone think the absence of something should "do" something ? I see critical thinking is not one of your string suits theallwashedup1.

          June 1, 2014 at 10:16 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Here is proof that 12 step programs don't have a very high success rate and you know who they're run by-right?? (do some research...there are secular programs that help without selling them false promises)

      June 2, 2014 at 5:10 am |
  19. sam stone

    i can think of several blog christians that this would describe

    June 1, 2014 at 7:47 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Anyone spending significant hours on a daily basis posting messages should consider if unhealthy obsessive thinking is controlling their life. Whether you are religious or not.

      June 1, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
      • sam stone

        i agree

        June 1, 2014 at 10:10 pm |
  20. tallulah131

    It makes sense that their OCD would manifest something that is already ritualized in their mind. My own OCD reflects my fathers ritual of making sure that the stove was off whenever he left the house. Of course, I've since added light switches to the routine, but the stove was where I started. Not at all surprising that religious people would fixate on something that had a disastrous failure already built in.

    June 1, 2014 at 7:36 pm |
    • Dalahäst

      Do you mean you have a ritual of checking to make sure the stove is off? Or have you been diagnosed with the mental illness known as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and have or are receiving treatment?

      June 1, 2014 at 9:51 pm |
      • tallulah131

        I mean I have OCD, like the people in the story. That's why I posted here in the first place: I can understand what they are going through because I suffer from the same disease.

        June 1, 2014 at 10:22 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I hear some people use "OCD" casually, but they don't really have it. Like, saying "I'm OCD about checking my emails". It is not really a disorder, but more like a habit or ritual.

          June 1, 2014 at 10:28 pm |
        • tallulah131

          It's something that has plagued me for over 20 years, and now I have a nephew that struggles with it. I don't make light of it, but when others do, I don't say anything because their own emotions may help them understand the greater issue.

          June 1, 2014 at 11:59 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I think it is an expression people use and don't realize the struggles that a victim of the disease actually goes through.

          June 2, 2014 at 12:19 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.