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June 2nd, 2014
11:25 AM ET

China's latest crackdown target: religion

Opinion by William McKenzie, Special to CNN

(CNN) - Early on the morning of November 28, 2007, Jia Weihan was forced to think the unthinkable: Was her father really a bad man?

At the time, she was an 11-year-old attending a school in Beijing that taught her to respect the communist authorities. When 30 or so police officers arrived to arrest her father, she did not know what to think.

As it turned out, her father, Shi Weihan, the pastor of a house church, was simply trying to live out his religious beliefs. That should be a fundamental right, but in China - even the more economically liberalized China – it’s not.

Twenty-five years after Tiananmen Square - where on June 4, 1989, Chinese soldiers turned their guns on protesting students and activists - freedom remains elusive.

In China, Tibetan Buddhists and Uyghur Muslims face worse conditions than at any time over the past decade, according to a report from the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom.

The report warns that independent Protestants and Catholics face arrests, fines and the closing of their churches. The government recently bulldozed one large church in the city of Wenzhou.

The report also highlights other restrictions, including these problems:

"Practitioners of Falun Gong, as well as other Buddhist, folk religionist, and Protestant groups deemed 'superstitious' or 'evil cults' face long jail terms, forced denunciations of faith and torture in detention, and the government has not sufficiently answered accusations of psychiatric experimentation and organ harvesting."

In Shi's case, he had decided not to tell Jia and her 7-year-old sister, Enmei, that he was printing Bibles and Christian literature. That was against Chinese law, so he did not want to put his children in jeopardy by letting them in on the secret.

Their children soon came to understand the secret, in a life-altering way.

Two years later, in June 2009, their father was sentenced to three years in prison for printing Bibles to meet growing demand. After he was released in February 2011, Shi realized he had to leave his homeland.

Authorities still were following him, so he applied to the Christ for the Nations Institute, an interdenominational college in Dallas. The school accepted him, and soon Shi, who also goes by the Anglicized name of John Stone, was on his way to Texas with his family.

One recent morning in his McKinney home, Shi, 44, explained what happened to him.

When 2008 approached and China was on the verge of hosting the Summer Olympics, the government did not want any messiness. No protests. No marches. No Tiananmen Squares.

That included no outcry over religious freedoms.

Going back almost 40 years, the government had allowed an official church. And it had given more liberties, as even Shi acknowledges. But the kind of house church that Shi hosted in his office, where he also ran a business, was not a state-sanctioned church.

Timeline: The Tiananmen Square crackdown of 1989

A situation like this can be hard to fathom in the United States, where we have a multitude of religious options. It was for me upon meeting Shi in February, when he and other Chinese dissidents came by the George W. Bush Institute offices to discuss their experiences.

The institute, co-founded by the former president, works to promote human freedom and economic growth across the world.

Fortunately, the freedom to worship, or not worship, is a given in our country. When we think of religious liberty, the concept usually revolves around matters like whether the government can allow prayers at public events.

That question undoubtedly matters, but religious freedom presents a more immediate challenge to many others around the world who wonder whether their faith will get them thrown in jail, persecuted or even killed.

Some religious dissidents leave their homelands for more unfamiliar territory. Shi and his family ended up in a suburban community outside Dallas that once was a cotton-farming haven.

He now speaks to churches and groups across the U.S. about his experience and the importance of religious freedom. He also works with an energy company that turns trash into oil products.

How covering June 4 Tiananmen Square crackdown kicked off 'CNN Effect'

Bob Fu suffered a similar ordeal.

Now the head of China Aid in Midland, Texas, Fu was forced into exile for practicing his religious beliefs in China. He captured his story in his book "God's Double Agent: The True Story of a Chinese Christian's Fight for Freedom."

Fu joined Shi this year at the Bush Institute offices. He reported that his organization has recorded 7,424 cases of persecution of Christians in China in 2013.

Denying religious liberty affects individuals most of all. But it also carries larger social and political consequences.

The lack of religious freedom undermines the rule of law. It can create social unrest by marginalizing believers. And it can threaten international stability, especially when extremist forces gain power.

Shi says he still prays for his country. That’s an appropriate response.

But there is a reason to remain vigilant about religious liberty, including something as simple as speaking out about the denial of such a right.

A fundamental human freedom is at stake.

William McKenzie is editorial director of the George W. Bush Institute, a public policy center in Dallas. The views expressed in this column belong to McKenzie.

- CNN Religion Editor

Filed under: Asia • Belief • China • Christianity • Church and state • Discrimination • Foreign policy • Opinion • Persecution

soundoff (325 Responses)
  1. Rynomite

    Atheism ≠ Communism
    Atheism ≠ Liberalism
    Atheism ≠ Conservatism
    Atheism ≠ Libertarianism

    Atheism is not a political ideology. Atheists can be members of all of those ideologies.

    While we acknowledge the world would be a better place without religion, most of us do not believe that doing it by force is the correct way. Education and knowledge will eventually prevail.

    June 3, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. – Colossians 1:15-16, NKJV
      – Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior offers salvation to all who would repent and come to Him. His mercy and grace are sure to follow. He is the Creator and everything belongs to Him

      June 4, 2014 at 8:50 am |
      • midwest rail

        Your behavior on these pages the last couple of weeks would seem to indicate two things :
        1. You still have a lot of "repenting" to do.
        2. Given said behavior, why would anyone want what you claim to have. Why would anyone want to be like you ?

        June 4, 2014 at 8:54 am |
        • awanderingscot

          all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. you as well are being given the chance to repent, seek Him now while He may yet be found.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:10 am |
        • midwest rail

          Why do you always deflect from any question asked of you ?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:11 am |
        • awanderingscot

          He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” – John 3:26, NKJV – everlasting life friend, who would not want it?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:15 am |
        • midwest rail

          Another deflection – given your behavior on these pages the last two weeks, why would anyone want to be like you ?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:16 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          The general steps are
          1) Deflect
          2) Deny
          3) Dismiss
          4) Ad hominem
          Repeat....

          June 4, 2014 at 9:16 am |
        • midwest rail

          Indeed, Doc. And our friend the scot is an expert practi.tioner.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:20 am |
        • awanderingscot

          i don't want you to be like me friend, i want you to be like Christ.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:22 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "I want you to be like Christ".

          Is belief in the supernatural necessary to live a life of peace, compassion, charity and humility?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:25 am |
        • midwest rail

          " i want you to be like Christ."
          It would appear that said aspiration has done nothing for you. Why would I wish to emulate a pursuit that has had no positive influence on you ?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:28 am |
        • awanderingscot

          D0C
          do you see peace, compassion, charity and humility in this world? we see glimpses of it but that is all. it can only be found in the Lord Jesus Christ.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:28 am |
        • awanderingscot

          Rail
          i could enumerate the positive changes He has made in my life, but you don't know me so you could not confirm.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:31 am |
        • midwest rail

          Indeed, you could make those claims. Your behavior on these pages would contradict any claim made.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:34 am |
        • awanderingscot

          "Your behavior on these pages would contradict any claim made."
          – how has my 'behavior' contradicted any claim?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:39 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @Scot
          So in your opinion, only Christians are capable of exhibiting those characteristics in any meaningful way.
          Talk about arrogance!
          "My religion is way better at teaching humility than yours. If they gave awards for humility, I'd have three of them".

          June 4, 2014 at 9:40 am |
        • midwest rail

          I have an errand to run – but if you insist, I will copy and paste some of your statements from the last couple weeks, and you can explain how it was really said from a "loving" Christian point of view.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:42 am |
        • awanderingscot

          Rail
          go ahead, feel free to judge, and then provide the rationale for your judgment and why the same would not apply to you.

          June 4, 2014 at 9:54 am |
        • awanderingscot

          D0C
          only the Lord Jesus Christ could exhibit these characteristics perfectly. he is the moral lifegiver and we as Christians strive to emulate Him.

          June 4, 2014 at 10:01 am |
        • midwest rail

          scot – I never said the same would not apply to me. I, however, claim no moral high ground based on my beliefs, nor do I claim a changed life from being "born again". Neither will I pass judgement on your statements, as they will speak for themselves.

          June 4, 2014 at 10:16 am |
        • midwest rail

          A mild one to begin with –

          awanderingscot
          you are correct and you judge rightly, this person is an atheist in addition to being a liar

          June 4, 2014 at 10:31 am |
        • midwest rail

          Another mild post from our loving friend –

          awanderingscot
          TruthUcannotHandle, you need to develop your adolescent thought processes. it's one thing to develop what is already there, it's quite another to actually create something that did not exist previously. in your case development is coming quite slowly.

          June 4, 2014 at 10:40 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        "The west is the abode of him who is faultless,
        Praise god for the man who has reached it!
        No man will attain it,
        Unless his heart is exact in doing right.
        The poor is not distinguished there from the rich,
        Only he who is found free of fault
        By scale and weight before eternity's lord.
        There is none exempt from being reckoned:
        Thoth as Baboon in charge of the balance
        Will reckon each man for his deeds on earth."

        – Inscription from the tomb of Petosiris (Ancient Egypt)

        Plenty of gods offer salvation.
        The Church of the Subgenius offers eternal salvation or triple your money back!

        You'll have to answer to Odin if you want to get to Valhalla.
        Or perhaps the 42 judges of the Egyptian afterlife.
        Maybe you'll meet Joseph Smith and need to offer him the secret handshakes and passwords in order to get to highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.
        Maybe St. Peter will review your sins in his book.
        Heaven, Hell, Limbo, Purgatory, Valhalla, The Celestial Kingdom, The Elysian Fields, Sheol, Tartarus, Tlaloc's Garden etc. ad nauseum.
        So many afterlives, each with their respective judges, and each one with different criteria for salvation.

        June 4, 2014 at 9:13 am |
        • awanderingscot

          only the Lord Jesus Christ incarnated to walk this earth as a man, a perfect man. why do you have a problem with that?

          June 4, 2014 at 9:25 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          @scot
          Around 300BCE, Demetrius Poliocetres was considered the incarnated, perfect man.
          “Of all the gods the greatest and the dearest
          To the city are come.
          For Demeter and Demetrius
          Together time has brought.
          She comes to hold the Maiden’s awful rites,
          And he joyous and fair and laughing,
          As befits a god.
          A glorious sight, with all his friends about him,
          He in their midst,
          They like to stars, and he the sun.
          Son of Poseidon the mighty, Aphrodite’s son,
          All hail!
          The other gods dwell far away,
          Or have no ears,
          Or are not, or pay us no heed.
          But thee we present see,
          No god of wood or stone, but godhead true.
          Therefore to thee we pray.”

          When he restored democracy in his native land, the people lined the streets in celebration and joyously declared him to be the One true God since the other gods seemed absent...

          June 4, 2014 at 9:36 am |
        • awanderingscot

          D0C
          Demetrius was a military leader with blood on his hands who became king of Macedonia. He was not the Messiah.

          June 4, 2014 at 10:05 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Nobody claimed him to be the Abrahamic "Messiah".
          Judaism wasn't exactly popular in that time and place.

          June 4, 2014 at 10:33 am |
  2. bostontola

    A key point religious and believers in God people make regarding atheists is that atheists don't recognize that there is understanding beyond human reason. That man’s reason is most effective when it's limits are recognized. A great thinker uses reason but is aware that there are mysteries that reason can't penetrate.

    I agree with much of this viewpoint except the word can't. There may or may not be mysteries that humans can't fathom, but that is far from demonstrated. Look at how man understood the world 500 years ago. What is taught in High School today would be viewed as impenetrable mysteries back then.

    Scientists, engineers, etc. are well aware that there are many things we don't understand today. Scientists use hunches, gut feel, etc. to direct research into the frontier of understanding along with reason. They know that the answer may not be in a straight line from where we have been in understanding, and out of the box ideas pay off sometimes. So good thinkers are very comfortable using reason and unreasonable ideas to move forward.

    That is different than making up an entire realm of existence with no objective evidence. The spirit world, the supernatural world, whatever you want to call it. These worlds were needed hundreds and thousands of years ago to explain mysteries that today are explained and understood as nature in public school classes.

    Does that prove that a spirit world doesn't exist? Of course not, that isn't the point. The point is, many atheists recognize that there is more out there than we understand and can explain by reason. But we don't conclude that the frontier of knowledge must be ceded to a realm of existence that has no basis. The track record of solving mysteries of the world by natural scientific means has been amazingly good. It's not unreasonable to think that outstanding mysteries will be solved by the same means.

    June 3, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
    • sealchan

      There is a reason to create a whole imaginary world without truth, there are several reasons. But there is no good reason to hold on to old imaginary realms that no longer hold value today. Religions today benefitted from collecting stories that mainly originated in oral cultures. In oral cultures you could never have a well-developed science because science requires the recording and sharing of detailed information that the human brain can't provide through purely oral means. These stories all carried weight in their day because they provided the following: entertainment, moral edification, human meaning in the context of cosmos, society and inner experience.

      Today's artists (author's, film directors, musicians, etc.) provide the equivalent source material for the kinds of myths we need to navigate our personal lives within this modern, scientifically transformed world. Religions of today should be cultivating these arts for the furtherment of their development of faith, but largely they are not. Religions of today, at least the Western ones I am most familiar with, seem to hold on to the old stories without understanding their original dynamic value and rather look to them for creating rules and reconstructing an ever more implausible history.

      But you can see the great value of myth today by reviewing the movie ticket sales results after each weekend. Lasting about as long as a church service, a good movie transports you to another realm where art of story and the magic of special effects allows you to experience an alternate reality that can help provide perspective or inspiration once you return to the real world. This is a deep need that people crave and spend good money on. It isn't all good quality, by a long shot, but then again, there is no reason to believe that in oral cultures all stories were created equal and for the ages.

      June 3, 2014 at 7:34 pm |
  3. thefinisher1

    The atheists are out sharing their hatred of all things good in life, as usual. Atheists are responsible for those giant ear holes teenagers have. Nipple and scrotum piercings too

    June 3, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
    • bostontola

      http://peacewithgod.jesus.net/

      finisher, please go there, I think they can help you find peace and love.

      June 3, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        Well do YOU have any piercings below the waste?

        June 3, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
        • bostontola

          None below or above the waist.

          Please get help.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:43 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          I bet you have one of those split tongues so you can be a snake in the grass like all atheists.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • bostontola

          How else would I be able to smell and taste?

          June 3, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          With your atheist snake nose I guess kid.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • bostontola

          Yes, but things smell better with my atheist snake tongue.

          June 3, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • dvdrichards1115

          Please stop

          June 5, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
    • Akira

      Shingles and mildew, too, iirc. Don't forget tetanus and famine. NEVER forget tetanus and famine.

      June 3, 2014 at 1:35 pm |
  4. Doc Vestibule

    ***** SCIENCE FACTS ******
    What Belief Blog Christians Have Taught Me

    or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the myth

    Regardless of what the National Academies of Science might claim, theories graduate into laws.

    The speed of light is variable.
    Do cars travel the same speed in the city as they do in the country?
    Therefore light outside the solar system travels faster.

    Since there were no high mountains in Isreael from which he could have seen all the Earth's landmasses, Jesus went to the moon. This is logical becuase He exists outside of time and space and that's how the Bible predicts a speherical Earth.

    Evolution predicts 1 centillion species in the development of the eye alone.

    UPC codes are a tool of Satan and herald The End.

    A scientist once claimed to find Dinosaur soft tissue, therefore all science that points to an old Earth is invalid.

    The Mayan civilization did not exist in 30CE.

    Just a few thousand years ago:
    There were no ice caps on the planet.
    There was no salt water.
    Pangea existed and the continents broke apart, moved rapidly to their current positions and slowed down.
    Contrary to what geologists and physicists might claim, this rapid acceleration and deceleration would not cause the planet itself any harm, nor would it cause issues for life on Earth.

    A practical ship design is one that requires a large crew to constantly pump out water taken on due to structural instability.

    There is evidence of the supernatural.

    Contrary to all the evidence and docu/mentation stating otherwise, The Third Reich was an atheistic regime.

    Atheism is synonymous with communism, nihilism, anarchism, immorality, materialism, naturalism, marxism, despotism, totalitarianism, pro-abortionism, racism, social darwinism, and, of course, Satanism.

    I'm very glad that the Belief Blog netizens have opened my eyes to The Truth behind science's evil machinations and the global conspiracy of misinformation.
    I shudder to recall all those years wasted earning a doctorate in Satanic lies.

    June 3, 2014 at 12:28 pm |
    • thefinisher1

      Your atheist science is responsible for every war ever fought on the earth kiddo.

      June 3, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
      • Akira

        And rust on cars.

        June 3, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Akira, you get it. And don't forget bad fish, bunny poop and face tattoos.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      What atheist bloggers have taught me:
      Atheism is synonymous with communism, nihilism, anarchism, immorality, materialism, naturalism, marxism, despotism, totalitarianism, pro-abortionism, racism, social darwinism, and, of course, Satanism.

      June 3, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
      • Akira

        Translation:
        " I post lies and false generalizations to demonize those I don't agree with. God wishes this, in my opinion."

        June 3, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
  5. observer

    awanderingscot

    One main ingredient of communism is convincing EVERYONE to work for the good of all. Your ignorance of the basics of communism is pathetic. Please get a MUCH BETTER education.

    June 3, 2014 at 12:17 pm |
    • thefinisher1

      Communism and atheism is the same thing. You worship the same god! Get an education kiddo!

      June 3, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
  6. Løki

    Makes sense to me... escape christian persecution in communist China and flee to the U.S. state most willing to become a christian theocracy... hmmm

    June 3, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
  7. Doris

    Leave it to the wandering dolt, scotty, the one who claims "EVOLUTION is beginning to crumble" (Noah's Ark discovery article) to conflate atheism with Communism/Maoism. Of course history shows for people like Hitler and Stalin that religious adherence and at times refutation were political tools and then at times obstacles for these despots. Whichever the case was at a specific time, as with many things besides religion, they were merely considered in light of real objectives – total control over the people.

    But let's look at what's been going on in this democracy only within the past several years. What we have seen is a real nasty effort on the part of some Muslims and some Christians to circu.mvent or change law committing or promoting violence specifically in the name of their beliefs.

    A team of evangelicals traveled from the U.S. to Africa with intent to incite the killing and jailing of some people there. Their efforts gained more traction with the blessing of the previous Pope and Anglican hierarchy. Scott Lively, leading the team of evangelicals has been charged for crimes against humanity under an Alien Torte statute.

    Some Muslims in the U.S. have carried out honor killings here in recent years.

    Let's hope that children do not come in contact with this dangerous dolt "awanderingscot".

    June 3, 2014 at 10:19 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      @Doris. I think our problem has always been when swapping posts with wandering scots and followers and dalahasts and tophers is that we always stick to facts and reality. Unfortunately, in the magical fantasy world of "belief" that they live in, their posts quite naturally wander off into magic and fantasy and mysticism because they believe it. They are not bound by facts and reality. Their cognitive dissonance allows them, without shame, to lie endlessly and ignore facts totally for what they see as the greater good. Their belief.

      As history has shown, our victories over wandering scots and followers and dalahasts and tophers will be the exception rather than the rule. Even though we have the facts and the truth overwhelmingly with us, it's a tough battle.

      June 3, 2014 at 10:36 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Because in their own minds, they have Ultimate Truth which trumps boring old proximate truth.

        June 3, 2014 at 10:44 am |
        • Doris

          Ah yes like the the ultimate truth that the Pope is an antichrist. ( not a Catholic Ultimate Truth™ of course, but a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod Ultimate Truth™ )

          June 3, 2014 at 11:09 am |
      • colin31714

        It's an impossible battle. Facts and reality are of no concern to them. Look, if you are still denying evolution, there is no amount of evidence that will convince you to question your core religious beliefs. Their minds are closed systems. They don't even care if the cr.ap they believe is true or not. As the bumper sticker says "The Bible says it, I believe it and that settles it."

        June 3, 2014 at 10:55 am |
        • igaftr

          There are none so blind as those who think belief in a book makes them see. Igafter 20:14

          June 3, 2014 at 11:25 am |
        • bostontola

          The funny thing is, in 50 years the vast majority of Christians will likely accept evolution and will use it as evidence of God (like many do with the Big Bang now).

          June 3, 2014 at 11:28 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          boston,

          If the history of Christianity has taught us anything it is its ability to assimilate culture, other religions and science into its dogmatic fold. It is really quite amazing.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:43 am |
  8. zhilla1980wasp

    theists want to blame (hitler,mao,stalin) as being athiests just to place some blood on our collective hands; compared to theist history we are spotless.....................even though all three above men commit such atrocities for power, that's it.
    -the popes did it to "save souls" at the point of.......well any avaible weapon at that time.

    ► Battles involving the Papal States‎ (2 C, 11 P)
    ► Crusade of Varna‎ (1 C, 1 P)
    ► Fifth Crusade‎ (3 C, 1 P) F cont.► Fourth Crusade‎ (3 C, 4 P)
    ► French Revolutionary Wars‎ (9 C, 46 P, 4 F)
    ► Napoleonic Wars‎ (18 C, 108 P)
    ► War of the First Coalition‎ (56 P, 2 F)
    ► Wars of the Guelphs and Ghibellines‎ (36 P)
    ► Wars of the Risorgimento‎ (2 C)
    Wars of Castro
    Cretan War (1645–69)
    War of Ferrara
    Holy League (1717)
    Italian War of 1494–98
    Italian War of 1521–26
    War of the League of Cambrai
    War of the League of Cognac
    Morean War
    Ottoman–Venetian War (1463–79)
    Ottoman–Venetian War (1570–73)
    Ottoman–Venetian War (1714–18)
    Salt War (1540)
    Second Desmond Rebellion
    Skanderbeg's Italian expedition
    War of Urbino
    War of the Eight Saints

    this link will show spread of religion through history; guess how it was spread?
    http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

    June 3, 2014 at 10:00 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Christian war against Reason (~1794 – present)

      June 3, 2014 at 10:23 am |
      • bostontola

        That's good. I might go back before Paine for the start of that war though.

        June 3, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • Løki

          It was just a WAG

          June 3, 2014 at 11:33 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      I'm not sure what this list purports to be.

      I don't understand how these wars could be construed to be primarily religious in nature:

      ► French Revolutionary Wars‎ (9 C, 46 P, 4 F)
      ► Napoleonic Wars‎ (18 C, 108 P)
      ► War of the First Coalition‎ (56 P, 2 F)

      Plus if your list is about European religious wars, I'm surprised that you would not include the religious wars of the Protestant Reformation including the 30 Years War.

      June 3, 2014 at 10:52 am |
  9. sealchan

    I believe it is fair to say that given sufficient power an atheist government is as likely as a Christian one to persecute the other.

    June 2, 2014 at 7:57 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      What's the difference? They are both comprised of humans.

      The only defense is a system that respects basic rights – like the freedom of and from religion.

      June 2, 2014 at 8:09 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany." – Adolf Hitler, Table Talk

        – Adolf Hitler, athe.ist – murderer of 15-20 million humans.

        June 2, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          "Your knowledge of the gospel will allow you to find texts ordering, and encouraging your followers to love poverty, like “Happier are the poor because they will inherit the heaven” and, “It’s very difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
          ... The children have to learn to obey what the missionary recommends, who is the father of their soul. You must singularly insist on their total submission and obedience, avoid developing the spirit in the schools, teach students to read and not to reason. "

          – King Leopold II of Beligium, Christian oppressor and murderer of 5-10 million , instructing Christian missionaries of how to evangelize to native Africans.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:39 am |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          @Scot,

          so exactly why did the good Lutherans and Catholics of the Third Reich, not only support the heinous (and so-called) atheist Hitler but do his diabolical bidding?

          June 3, 2014 at 10:25 am |
        • fascinatedspectator

          "there is one error which cannot be remedied once men have made it, namely the failure to recognize the importance of conserving the blood and the race free from intermixture and thereby the racial aspect and character which are God's gift and God's handiwork"

          " As I look back on the great work that has been done during the past four years you will understand quite well that my first feeling is simply one of thankfulness to our Almighty God for having allowed me to bring this work to success. He has blessed our labors and has enabled our people to come through all the obstacles which encompassed them on their way"

          October 15, 1937 Adolf Hitler

          These are CRYSTAL CLEAR examples of how Hitler used his RELIGION to justify mass genocide!
          Hitler was NOT an "atheist" according to his own words!...

          June 3, 2014 at 10:29 am |
        • igaftr

          scot
          You actually try a quote from Table Talk? Talk about shaky information. Seriously?

          June 3, 2014 at 11:15 am |
        • Vic

          [
          "According to Max Domarus, Hitler had fully discarded belief in the Judeo-Christian conception of God by 1937, but continued to use the word "God" in speeches – but it was not the God "who has been worshiped for millennia", but a new and peculiarly German "god" who "let iron grow". Thus Hitler told the British journalist Ward Price in 1937: "I believe in God, and I am convinced that He will not desert 67 million Germans who have worked so hard to regain their rightful position in the world."[46]"

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
          ]

          June 3, 2014 at 11:24 am |
        • awanderingscot

          D0C
          i would not condone the atrocity but to put this in perspective, the population of Congo in this time frame was 10 million. the government commission assigned to investigate this atrocity put the death toll at half the population or 5 million people (sick). the major factor contributing to the death toll was rampant smallpox and sleeping sickness with the smallpox no doubt introduced by the Europeans. warring neighboring tribes also contributed to the death toll. needless to say it was a hellhole but it was greed that was the major motivation and not an evangelical crusade, rubber and other raw materials were coveted. it was chiefly the Catholic church that intervened and put a stop to it.

          June 3, 2014 at 3:05 pm |
      • observer

        “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.”
        - Adolph Hitler, self-proclaimed Christian, – murderer of 15-20 million humans.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:05 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          Source? all who have chronicled Hitler make a distinction between his propaganda and his core beliefs. This was a speech he gave to the German people. are you a dupe of propaganda too? apparently.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:21 pm |
        • observer

          awanderingscot

          "are you a dupe of propaganda too?"

          Nope. I don't believe all the propaganda that Christians PICK and CHOOSE from the Bible while they IGNORE all the parts they don't agree with.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:29 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          There is no evidence that Hitler himself, in his personal life, ever expressed any individual belief in the basic tenets of the Christian church" – Laurence Rees

          June 2, 2014 at 10:30 pm |
        • observer

          “Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.”
          - Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

          June 2, 2014 at 10:33 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

          -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

          No evidence what so ever...

          June 2, 2014 at 11:02 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          At the end of the day it doesn't matter what Hitler personally believed.

          At the end of the day it was the good Lutherans and Catholics of the Third Reich that did his bidding. In part Hitler used their Christianity to get their support and to do what he wanted.

          June 3, 2014 at 10:29 am |
        • igaftr

          scot
          You can lie about Hitler allyou want but here is the reality of it.
          He did not trust atheists, did not believe they could be moral.
          He believed that the Jews had corrupted christianity, so distanced himself from the overall religion, while all the while claiming belief in the Christian god, the god of abraham, his "god Almighty", and justified his actions through belief in YOUR god.

          Hope that clears it up for you.

          June 3, 2014 at 10:48 am |
        • igaftr

          "are you a dupe of propaganda too? apparently"
          says scot, a believer in the biggest piece of propoganda ever written, the bible.

          Odd that you call people out for things that you cannot see in yourself scot.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:42 am |
      • Reality

        "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

        -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)"

        Hey Adolf, Jesus was a Jew so your words don't compute. And Adolf, the only Lord you served was your sick, deluded mind. And the German population post WWI no doubt inspired by the rhetoric of the Lutheran and Christian anti-Semitic leadership unfortunately were equally sick and deluded in their minds. Had they not been, you would have been in an insane asylum.

        June 2, 2014 at 11:31 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          "Where do correct ideas come from? Do they drop from the skies? No. Are they innate in the mind? No. They come from social practice and from it alone. They come from three kinds of social practice: the struggle for production, the class struggle and scientific experiment." – Mao Tse Tung, atheist and mass murderer, from the Little Red Book

          June 3, 2014 at 8:46 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          – Mao Tse Tung, Autotheist who successfully mythologized himself into the Godhead position of his cult of personality
          (fixed that for you)

          June 3, 2014 at 9:04 am |
      • awanderingscot

        this is a public forum and you can choose or not choose to come here. no one is cramming religion down your throat. the ath.eists who come to this blog (religion.blogs.c&n.com) do so, so that they can vent their hat.red on people of faith.

        June 3, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • Reality

          No they don't. They come here to educate. To start your education, please peruse the following:

          Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con- 101

          From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15: 14, Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

          Even now Catholic/Christian professors (e.g.Notre Dame, Catholic U, Georgetown) of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

          To wit;

          From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

          "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
          Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

          Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

          Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

          The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

          Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

          The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

          "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
          http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

          The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

          With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

          An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

          p.4

          "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

          p.168. by Ted Peters:

          Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

          So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:31 pm |
    • kenmargo

      Look back at history. When you look at all the major fvck ups in gov't. It wasn't because of atheists. People wouldn't vote an atheist in office even if he/she had a cure for cancer. Look no further than 9/11. You one religious wacko (Bin Laden) another religious wacko (bush) A deadly mix that resulted death, war and nearly drove us in to an depression. So don't make azzumptions.

      June 2, 2014 at 8:44 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        "When you look at all the major fvck ups in gov't. It wasn't because of atheists
        ---------------------------
        This is where the Leninist / Trotskyite / Stalinist analogies start. Any government not founded on and respecting basic rights will have this problem. It's tribalism – you can see it in all primates.

        The challenge is to respect the rights of minorities. The decline starts with tyranny of the majority. It ends in tyranny.

        June 2, 2014 at 8:48 pm |
        • kenmargo

          I can respect any minority that's bringing something to the table. If you bring crap (religion) you'll get crap. If I need an solution to problem, I don't need a religious whack job say "lets pray" as if that will solve the problem. Religion should kept to oneself because it's your belief and your belief only.

          June 2, 2014 at 8:55 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "I don't need a religious whack job say "lets pray" as if that will solve the problem.
          ----------------
          Of course not, but I think you're missing sealchan's point.

          The issue is the 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely' adage.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:15 pm |
        • kenmargo

          As I replied before. In the end, people are going to be people for better or worse no matter the beliefs.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:29 pm |
        • observer

          ‘Lord, make us free!’ is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: ‘Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!’”
          - Adolf Hitler, self-proclaimed Christian, 15-20 million humans murdered under his regime.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:08 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        Hitler repeatedly stated that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science, which in the long run could not "co-exist with religion" – Richard Evans

        – Adolf Hitler, athe.ist. 15-20 million humans murdered under his regime.

        June 2, 2014 at 9:57 pm |
        • redzoa

          Got mitt uns . . . .

          June 2, 2014 at 10:14 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          awanderingtot: No worries wee-boy, we don't expect you to comprehend reality...you deny evolution and support incest in lieu of-it tells us that you have the intellect of a 5 year old child. Hitler was not an Atheist and too many apologists have made that false claim better known as the No True Scotsman fallacy. However, political gain and belief can be very different, although both seek power and both are put forth by humans. Sorry the education system and your parents failed you.

          June 3, 2014 at 6:08 am |
        • fascinatedspectator

          Yet another quote "about" Hitler from someone's else's personal opinion, and NOT from Hitler's own words .
          YAWN ...

          June 3, 2014 at 10:33 am |
        • Dyslexic doG

          "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian, I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."

          -Adolph Hitler Munich April 12, 1922

          June 3, 2014 at 10:41 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Why would anyone want a gov't that is anything but neutral as to the question of religion?

      June 2, 2014 at 9:21 pm |
    • sealchan

      Perhaps it is our collective need to belong to something bigger than ourselves that gets twisted when the power of the group is experienced (tribalism). The way that various faiths in the Middle East squabble over sacred sites best exemplifies what is wrong with religious collectives, they mistake their faith as a literal historical truth. As Joseph Campbell might have said each religion is true in its own way as a metaphorical expression of the possibility of human experience in the world. Not literal, but metaphorical. My emphasis is on that this metaphor is still true, as metaphor.

      Right now I am thinking about the willing death of Jesus. What is he allowed himself to be crucified (by not commanding or otherwise organizing a political kingdom or other form of resistance) because he knew from stories and other traditions (or even the Jewish tradition) that a prophet/king is only understood for so long and gradually the religion that spawns from that individual corrupts into something that the prophet never would have wanted. Maybe he was trying to show us that holding onto political power (one of the temptations) is a trick of Satan. Hmmm...how does that comment on the history of religion and those who seek to put religious principles into government law?

      June 3, 2014 at 11:27 am |
  10. kenmargo

    If China was more open in other matters, their lack of religious freedom would be tolerated because of the peace brought about because of lack of religion. Lets be real. The middle is that area between your genitalia and azzhole becaue of religion. It doesn't even qualify to be an armpit, that's how bad the area is. We've seen the crap christianity has done here. So I don't blame china.

    June 2, 2014 at 7:27 pm |
    • sealchan

      Political parties are, in a sense, a ready-made subst-itute for religions where extremists are concerned. Desperation and a story of one's people as being persecuted are the fuel and access to power is the match. Political parties are like religions, they have unquestioned beliefs. Given enough power, atheists will find that they have to impose their will on others if they want conformity to right and wrong as they would perceive it.

      June 2, 2014 at 8:02 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        "Political parties are, in a sense, a ready-made subst-itute for religions
        ----------------–
        They are both forms of tribalism.

        June 2, 2014 at 8:08 pm |
      • kenmargo

        Atheists impose what will on who? If politicians kept religion out of politics, you'd never hear from us. We wouldn't care if people worshipped manhole covers.

        June 2, 2014 at 8:35 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity." Many historians have come to the conclusion that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany

          yes, you heard that right, "noble". – Adolf Hitler, athe.ist – murderer of 15-20 million humans.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:09 pm |
        • hawaiiguest

          So Hitler disagreed with the Church, and therefore was an atheist? Martin Luther must have been one too for leading the Reformation against the Catholic Church. Wait, which church are you even talking about? There's a lot of them.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:13 pm |
        • Akira

          The "Hilter was an atheist" is a tired trope that has been thouroughly debunked.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:15 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          Hitler shared with the Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, a materialist outlook, based on the nineteenth century rationalists certainty that the progress of science would destroy all myths and had already proved Christian doctrine to be an absurdity". – Alan Bullock

          – Adolf Hitler was an athe.ist and murderer of 15-20 million humans.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:33 pm |
        • observer

          “I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work.”
          - Adolf Hitler was a self-proclaimed Christian and murderer of 15-20 million humans.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:37 pm |
        • Akira

          Ironic that Stalin helped defeat Hitler, no?

          Hitler was not an atheist. Rewriting history is futile.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:45 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          really? then what are you doing here at (relig1on.blogs.c&n.com) except for hating on people of faith? why aren't you at (athe.ist.blogs.c&n.com) or a comparable blog?

          June 3, 2014 at 9:34 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        Sealchan's point is that absent religion you will see the same form of primate tribal behavior that the religious engage in over the 'true faith' only instead of the 'true faith' it will be 'true adherence to the party'.

        This is tribalism pure and simple. Plus we see it in autocracies all the time.

        June 2, 2014 at 8:44 pm |
        • kenmargo

          "Sealchan's point is that absent religion you will see the same form of primate tribal behavior that the religious engage in over the 'true faith' only instead of the 'true faith' it will be 'true adherence to the party'."

          That's not atheism. That's a dictatorship. Usually the one with the most weapons wins. Religious people use fear to get their way. Atheists use common sense (reality) to deal with issues. Atheists can reach a consensous. Religious leaders reach for paranoia or their gun.

          June 2, 2014 at 8:50 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Atheists use common sense (reality) to deal with issues. Atheists can reach a consensous
          ---------------------
          You are missing some basic hard-wired human behavior that requires a great deal of governance discipline and respect for the rights of minorities to overcome.

          It's parody but go look at the South Park episode "Go God Go"
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_God_Go

          Where two political systems – the United Atheist Alliance and the Allied Atheist Allegiance contest each other for world dominance. It's deliberately ridiculous, but the premise is that in the absence of religion, unchecked primate tribal behavior can still run amok. Despite all the South Park silliness it makes a pretty effective point.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:22 pm |
        • kenmargo

          In the end of the day. People are going to be people. For better or worse.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:27 pm |
        • sealchan

          Yes, and I also recognize that atheism isn't, technically, a belief system, but if any organization becomes sufficiently powerful and proposes to guide or legislate human behavior, it will in addition to its non-religious affiliation, acc-umulate other belief systems in order to define itself and in order to reflect the inevitable imposition of personal beliefs (we all have 'em) that occur if that power focuses in on one person.

          If we map socio-political structures to types of theism we have democracy is agnostic (belief or not what you want), capitalism is pantheism (money is God and everything has a price) and dictatorships and other non-democracies are akin to prophet-led religions or mono-theisms. Wherever there is a concentration of power there is corruption. It may not be so much the form of socio-political structure that is of concern but whether that structure has matured into a form that balances its potential for abuse of power at both the top and the bottom.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      "Science cannot lie ... it's Christianity that's the liar" – Adolf Hitler, Table Talk

      – Adolf Hitler, athe.ist – murdered 15-20 million humans.

      June 2, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        And your point is what ?
        Is it correlation or causation ? 95 % of the US prison population claim they are Christians, so IF you're trying to claim moral superiority for believers, you failed to demonstrate that. What EXACTLY are you try to say ? That Hitler would not have done what he had done if he had been a believer ? The fact is he could have done NOTHING without the assent of a "Christian" nation. Millions of Christian Germans allowed him to rise to power. Let's get real here, and stop being so infantile. The fact is no "loving god" would have allowed the slaughter of millions of people. If your deity exists, he is an evil powerless wimp.

        June 3, 2014 at 4:39 am |
        • realbuckyball

          Hitler murdered no one. Millions of (supposedly) Christian Germans did the "murdering".

          June 3, 2014 at 4:41 am |
        • awanderingscot

          “Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.”
          ― Mao Tse-tung – atheist

          “To read too many books is harmful.” – Mao Tse Tung, atheist

          June 3, 2014 at 9:01 am |
        • awanderingscot

          "The M.arxist philosophy of dialectical materialism has two outstanding characteristics. One is its class nature:
          it openly avows that dialectical materialism is in the service of the proletariat. The other is its practicality:
          it emphasizes the dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on practice and in turn serves practice." – Mao Tse Tung – atheist and murderer of 45 million human beings.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:04 am |
        • Doc Vestibule

          – Mao Tse Tung, Autotheist who successfully mythologized himself into the Godhead position of his cult of personality
          (fixed that for you)

          June 3, 2014 at 9:15 am |
      • Doc Vestibule

        There is plenty of debate regarding the vailidity of the quotes in "Hitler's Table Talk", particularly concerning the English translation. The majority of historians take it with a grain of salt.

        What no historian denies is that Hitler was very astute in his dealings with the Christians churches.
        He worked hard to get them on the side of the Third Reich so he could present himself to the nation as a pious Christian.
        Hitler's regime was in the business of building a Christian empire.
        "By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society."
        – Adolf Hitler

        His signing of the Concordat with the Vatican was lauded by clergy.
        "What the old parliament and parties did not accomplish in sixty years, your statesmanlike foresight has achieved in six months. For Germany's prestige in East and West and before the whole world this handshake with the Papacy, the greatest moral power in the history of the world, is a feat of immeasurable blessing. ...May God preserve the Reich Chancellor for our people."
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria

        "I wish to express my church's sincere and joyous preparedness to cooperate as best they could with the government now ruling that had set itself that tasks of promoting the Christian education of the people, repelling ungodliness and immorality, developing readiness to make sacrifices for the common good and protecting the rights of the Church."
        – Cardinal Adolf Bertram, Archbishop of Breslau

        The Catholic leaders were especially vociferous in their support of The Fuhrer, presenting him to the German people as a blessed, holy man.

        "Christ has come to us through the person of Adolf Hitler. ...Hitler has taken root in us; through his strength, through his honesty, his faith and his idealism we have found our way to paradise."
        – Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933

        "Adolf Hitler is]the tool of God, called upon to overcome Judaism..."
        – Father Senn, May 15, 1934

        "The Führer commands the diplomatic and social forms better than a born sovereign. ...Without a doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture."
        – Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber

        The religious insti/tutions were very much in support of Hitler's battle against atheistic Bolshevism.
        "May our Führer, with God's help, succeed in completing this terribly difficult undertaking with unshakable determination and faithful participating of all Volksgenossen."
        – Fulda German Bishops' Conference

        "We are also convinced that the activity of the National Socialist movement has averted the danger of an all-destroying atheistic Bolshevism. For the future, the bishops confer their heartiest blessing on this activity, and they will instruct the faithful to this effect."
        – Catholic Hierarchy of Austria

        So you can argue until you're blue in the face about whether Htiler himself was a true Scotsman, but it cannot be denied that the Christian churches in Germany were fully in support of his regime.

        June 3, 2014 at 8:59 am |
      • fintronics

        God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13

        June 3, 2014 at 11:23 am |
        • awanderingscot

          The lesson here is that Abraham was demonstrating faith. Abraham demonstrated his FAITH in God since he reasoned that God, the giver of life, was also able to bring Isaac back from the dead. Abraham's unconditional love for his creator was also demonstrated in obedience; and God in turn credited righteousness to him Faith is not void of evidence nor is it blind.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:58 pm |
        • doobzz

          Abraham – isn't he the guy who raped his wife's slave?

          June 3, 2014 at 10:01 pm |
  11. Vic

    While it seems tedious, the U.S. State Department constantly calls out and pressures China to crackdown on Human Rights violations in exchange for normal trade relations. China has a long track record of Human Rights violations, and it is on the rise. China detains people w/o trials, executes people for non-violent crimes and w/unfair trials, and suppresses "Freedom of Expression" including heavy censorship on the Internet.

    Quick Reference:
    http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/china

    June 2, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      While we may not be as overt about it, the U.S. gov't shouldn't be one to talk.

      June 2, 2014 at 7:25 pm |
  12. Dyslexic doG

    'i will pick up the hook.
    you will see something new.
    two Finishers. and i call them
    Finisher One and Finisher Two.
    these Finishers will not bite you.
    they want to have fun.'
    then, out of the box
    came Finisher Two and Finisher One!
    and they ran to us fast.
    they said, 'how do you do?
    would you like to shake hands
    with Finisher One and Finisher Two?'

    (with apologies to Dr. Seuss and his Cat in the Hat)

    June 2, 2014 at 4:45 pm |
    • bostontola

      Well done.

      June 2, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
    • Akira

      Cute!

      June 2, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
  13. thefinisher1

    When you atheists quit causing famine and disease with your atheist mentality, perhaps the world will be a safer place for me and my dad to have a party. Your atheism makes the world miserable with your gloom and doom head space.

    June 2, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
    • thefinisher1

      You are not doing your atheist buddies any favors fake finisher. You just bring down your own atheist cause. Stoopid.

      June 2, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Well you just go have a little prayer about it. It will all change I know. "Whatever you ask in his name ....". Right ?

        Right ?

        June 2, 2014 at 9:52 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        You do know that we know you're one in the same...right? You did leave both aliases to point to the EXACT same page. Seek some help for those delusions.

        June 3, 2014 at 10:38 am |
    • bostontola

      Too funny dude, lol.

      June 2, 2014 at 4:33 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      you two finishers are nuttier than squirrel sh1t!

      June 2, 2014 at 4:39 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        Speaking of that, where are the rodents ?

        June 2, 2014 at 9:53 pm |
  14. thefinisher1

    Atheists constantly come to my parties and tell me how they are right on and every other person in the room is an idiot. I just back away the way my daddy taught me.

    June 2, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
    • neverbeenhappieratheist

      I know you are a troll but it is pretty funny that you have to lie about having parties, having friends and knowing your daddy.

      June 2, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        I have lots of fun parties and I know my daddy very well.

        June 2, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          So you admit to being a troll then, good to know.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Naturally I am a troll. The most hideous kind.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • Dyslexic doG

          delusions of grandeur.

          more tool than troll ...

          June 2, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
    • bostontola

      Why do you back away at parties like your daddy taught you, but not on this comment board?

      June 2, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        If you must know I am not fond of atheists...their smell.

        June 2, 2014 at 4:19 pm |
        • Akira

          Again, why would you invite them?

          June 2, 2014 at 4:21 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          The real allwashedup1 actually has demonstrated he knows, IRL, not one real atheist.
          He lives in his mom's basement, and she lets him out about once a month to "play" with the neighbor's sheep.

          June 3, 2014 at 4:45 am |
    • Akira

      If you dislike atheists so much, why do you bother to invite them to any parties?

      June 2, 2014 at 4:19 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        Atheists always bring the best party favors. The trick is to get the goods and then get them to leave.

        June 2, 2014 at 4:25 pm |
        • Akira

          Oh, so you use them?

          June 2, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Yes of course. If they know any good jokes, we get that out of the way first.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • Akira

          You're cracking me up.

          How are they snack-wise?

          June 2, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Atheists taste like old moldy bread.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
        • Akira

          Not a good idea to serve them at your next party, then.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          So,,, you eat atheists.
          I knew you were bizarre.

          June 2, 2014 at 9:54 pm |
        • fintronics

          I bet they offer you condoms do you won't reproduce!

          June 3, 2014 at 11:26 am |
  15. thefinisher1

    Atheists always like to brag but even atheists hav killed people for stupid reasons. They like to throw stones when they should also throw stones at their atheism😝

    June 2, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
    • bostontola

      You're right that there has been killings done by some atheists, but what do atheists brag about?

      June 2, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
      • thefinisher1

        Atheists brag about being smarter and more clever then anyone else. Hogwash! Your atheism doesn't bring you any closer to God.

        June 2, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
        • Akira

          Why should it? Atheists don't believe in God.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:11 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Atheists believe in their religion atheism which is their god.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:12 pm |
        • G to the T

          "Atheists believe in their religion atheism which is their god."

          Oh! Are we all re-defining words today? Because I'd love it if "work" actually meant "paid vacation"...

          June 2, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Atheists are always on vacation from common sense kid.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          You do realize you are actually arguing with an atheist, right? He/she admitted to be the fake me. I don't know why an atheist would steal my name and bash his/her atheism..doesn't make sense.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          It makes just as much sense as the fake finisher stealing my name kiddo. Big zero, nothing.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:21 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          I'm rather certain that we're not as concerned with your imaginary friend as you'd like to think we are. We're more concerned with the followers of your imaginary friend and the way they use their belief to justify harm to others.

          June 3, 2014 at 6:37 am |
      • thefinisher1

        They brag how atheism is blameless and only religion is the cause for every evil thing. Atheism breeds weird delusions.

        June 2, 2014 at 4:12 pm |
        • Doc Vestibule

          Can you name a war in which atheist factions killed each other over who believes in God the least or who practices the correct way to disbelieve in gods?

          June 2, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Bug off fake finisher.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
        • bostontola

          Please show me one comment comment by an atheist that says that only religion is the cause for every evil thing.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Atheists invented communism which has racked up the biggest amounts of deaths. That system was invented by atheists and people died at the hands of atheists. So, tell the world the truth and stop lying that atheism is "perfect" for mankind. Your atheism is a disease.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Additionally your atheism is the cause of HIV and bug bites. Enjoy living in your atheism misery hole.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • Akira

          Don't forget foot fungus and sand on your sandwiches at the beach.

          Eyeroll.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • thefinisher1

          Thank you. I forgot those and also left out sun burn and constipation.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:35 pm |
        • bostontola

          Couldn't find 1 example finisher. Once again revealed as hyperbolic.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • Akira

          Oh! Hemorroids and lazy eye, too.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:46 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Show me one place they have done that.
          Take your time.

          June 3, 2014 at 4:47 am |
      • awanderingscot

        By 1940, however, it was public knowledge that Hitler had abandoned even the syncretist idea of a positive Christianity. Instead, after 1938 Hitler began to publicly support a Nazified version of science, particularly social Darwinism, at the core of Nazi ideology in place of a religious one – a development that is reflected in private in his increasingly hostile remarks towards religion in Table Talk. – Adolf Hitler, athe.ist, murderer of 15-20 million humans.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:15 pm |
        • observer

          “The judgment whether a people is virtuous or not virtuous can hardly be passed by a human being. That should be left to God.”
          - Adolph Hitler, 04/01/1939, self-proclaimed Christian, murderer of 15-20 million humans.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:18 pm |
        • Akira

          Again, Hitler was not an atheist, and remained a Christian right up until he did the only decent thing in his entire miserable life and ate a cyanide pill.

          June 2, 2014 at 10:20 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          it's evident that atheists would want to deny that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were atheists given the fact that they murdered millions of human beings. you're in denial of this as much as you are in denial of God.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:15 am |
        • igaftr

          scot
          Once again, you are lying. Hitler was not an atheist, and he , like you considered atheism to be a form of mental illness, and like you, did not believe that atheists could be moral. How does it feel to know that you think like Hitler, at least in regards to atheists.
          Learn some history.

          "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

          – Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933

          He invoked YOUR god in his speaches, claimed the YOUR god was good with what he was doing.

          Now, you claim the others were atheist, but did they do what they did in the name of atheism, like so many religious zealots have claimed they did things for their gods? No, they did NOT do those things in the name of NOT believing in gods. You really have a twisted view of history.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:33 am |
        • hotairace

          DumbAzzScot, why were christians involved in mass murder at all? Why wasn't your cult's rules and imaginary god strong enough to prevent the atrocities christians were involved in? Why is it so important to you and other delusional believers to be second best at mass murder when you should not have been involved at all? Why did christians engage in believer-on-believer atrocities?

          Christians have much mess in their backyard that needs sorting out long before they judge others.

          June 3, 2014 at 9:56 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          You fooltard!! Hitler isn't one of us. No matter how much you wish to deny the facts, you're not changing them. The man verbally proclaimed his beliefs!
          Please tell us, are you a high school drop-out? I mean it takes a truly uneducated idiot not to accept what the man himself said. What's your IQ? About -10 maybe??

          June 3, 2014 at 10:31 am |
        • gulliblenomore

          I'm actually surprised at the stupidity of scot. But then again, his entire belief system requires a suspension of belief in reality, so I guess I am not especially surprised at how moronic he is being on this issue.

          June 3, 2014 at 10:56 am |
        • awanderingscot

          i am not surprised by the denial that Hitler was an atheist but facts are facts. atheists want to be revisionist in history for obvious reasons. but the effort is fruitless since too many books have been written by people who had an intimate knowledge of the man. Quoting Hitler's speeches to the German people will not change the fact that those who knew the man identified him as someone without a belief in God. my point here is that atheism does not foster a respect for human life. you can disagree if you want, you can even call me names, but i'm not losing any sleep over the hate.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
        • observer

          awanderingscot

          "atheism does not foster a respect for human life"

          NONSENSE. I don't read any atheists on here supporting the selling of 6-year-old girls as slaves or discriminating against women and the handicapped like the Bible does..

          June 3, 2014 at 9:48 pm |
  16. bostontola

    Lack of religious freedom is abhorrent just like many other types of freedom that are denied around the world. There is still slavery in some places.

    June 2, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Thought crimes and legislating beliefs is always wrong.

      June 2, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
      • bostontola

        I agree. The PC trend in the US is beginning a dangerous trend towards thought police.

        June 2, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          I know, and the disappointing part is much of it is being driven by liberals.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
        • bostontola

          It has taken a lot of work on my part to keep my kids from falling into this trap. There seems to be a natural attraction to thought police, they slip back more often than I'd like.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          I know. People have gotten this idea that they have a right to "not be offended". I don't like what certain groups and individuals have to say...but I will fight for their rights to say it. Freedom is about allowing behavior and speech that you don't agree with...not just the stuff you do agree with. "Big Brother" is more our fellow citizens than it is the gov't...at least that is what seems to be the direction that we are going.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:09 pm |
        • bostontola

          Exactly. Just like the Nazis in Skokie. My European friends don't understand how I can support their right to march, they know how anti-Nazi I am. It is against the law to be a Nazi in many European countries. We used to value freedom more than safety in the US, I fear we are losing that. The internet is tipping the scales even more. I'm sad my kids' expectation of privacy is less than mine.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Nazis in Skokie"
          -------------–
          You can't comment on Illinois Nazi's without receiving this response:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ukFAvYP3UU&feature=kp

          June 2, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
        • bostontola

          They were on a mission from God.

          June 2, 2014 at 5:09 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        What if a religion believed you could not approach God wearing any clothing for that got in the way of your spirit? Would we allow them to go preaching in the nude and come knocking on your door in their birthday suits? Not likely. There would be outrage from the religious right claiming the nudists don't have a right to infringe on others right not to have to see peoples junk in public. That is why there are nudist retreats where people can go and practice their nudism without offending those who do not want to see it. When does your right to preach override my right not to be preached at? Why can't the religious practice their beliefs and do all their preaching at their retreats and inside their Churches instead of exposing themselves to their co-workers, their neighbors and the general public who may not want to see them waving their religious junk around in everyone faces?

        June 2, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          You have a lot of different issues rolled into one here. Wearing clothing is regulated by society in public...that does not have a religious basis. Proselytizing is allowed publically as part of freedom of speech. If someone is preaching in public...you can walk away...or you can verbally oppose them, you are not a captive to their message. You don't have a right to not be offended. If someone comes to your door you can send them away...for any reason. The workpplace is regulated by the business itself. If you have an issue with some message from a coworker you need to address that with management of HR.

          June 2, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          I understand and embrace the freedoms we have here in the US. However when the religious think it is their right to inject their religion into the "public" sphere aka our public schools, our politics and our courthouses, that is just the same to me as waving your dlck in everyone face. Sure some will cheer it because they like that kind of thing, but the rest of us are disgusted. If my analogy was a bit uncouth I apologize but it seems only very extreme visuals can get across my point.

          June 2, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Neverbeenhappier,

          Now you are talking about religion mixed with gov't. That I have a HUGE problem with. There is a difference between spouting religious views IN public and doing it on or within the gov't on the taxpayer dime.

          June 2, 2014 at 7:15 pm |
  17. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    This story – about a guy who left China three years ago, has nothing to do with this headline:

    "25 years after Tiananmen Square, China tightens grip on religious freedom"

    China has never 'released it's grip' on religious freedom. In fact what the article says is: "Twenty-five years after Tiananmen Square ... freedom remains elusive."

    This is a poor editorial choice in the interest of 'clicks'.

    June 2, 2014 at 11:57 am |
  18. neverbeenhappieratheist

    It seems the author doesn't want to point out that this is all about the right to proselytize your religion. In both cases it wasn't their faith that was under attack but their trying to spread unaffiliated Christianity in public forums or the printing of ones own unsanctioned bibles that got them into trouble, and then they were released and allowed to move to Texas with their families and was apparently occurring around the Olympics when they were basically in panic mode. That does not sound like the China of 25 years or more ago. This article though sounds an awful lot more like a sales pitch for their books now that they are here in the US and have a huge gullible crop of sheep to fleece.

    I'm all for religious freedom, and no one is stopping any Chinese person over 18 from entering the many Christian Churches they have there and worshiping alongside the other 30-60 million Christians in China. It seems like this articles only agenda is to incite passionate Christians who imagine China as some representation of Satan on earth in order to sell books.

    June 2, 2014 at 11:54 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "this is all about the right to proselytize your religion."
      -------------–
      It is, but you can't really argue that permitting state approved religions is equivalent to religious freedom.

      The Chinese really do not grant their citizens true religious freedom.

      June 2, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        Well of course there isn't complete religious freedom in China. I was pointing out that the article makes it seem a lot worse than it is for effect along with a video of abuses nearly 30 years ago almost like an infomercial for books sales.

        Also, I think there is a huge difference between the "persecution" of today and the referenced persecution of 25 years ago in China. I'm not defending their current policies which need more transparancy and alterations to allow anyone to believe in any religion they want, but this article masks real religious injustice of the discrimination against Tibetians and their religious practices by making it a "Christian" persecution thing. They get one line in the whole article "Tibetan Buddhists and Uyghur Muslims face worse conditions than at any time over the past decade". So shouldn't they be the focus of the article on religious persecution in China? Oh wait, I guess they don't have a book to sell that US Christians would buy up thinking they are somehow contributing to religious freedom by sending their $19.95 to a Chinese guy living in the suberbs of Texas.

        June 2, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        The author works at the "George Bush Inst.itute". That's probably enough to know where the slant is coming from.

        June 2, 2014 at 12:44 pm |
  19. Doc Vestibule

    I wonder how long it will take someone to conflate atheism with Communism / Maoism.

    June 2, 2014 at 11:49 am |
    • Reality

      China's government is now capitalistic with the military and foreign investment and technology in control. And they have their own brand of Christianity/papal-free Catholicism. And considering the amount of money they have invested in USA Treasury bonds, they probably will remain a peaceful but saber-rattling country for the years to come. Hopefully, wireless technology will someday allow freedom of the press/internet..

      June 2, 2014 at 12:07 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      "You know, they are fooling us, there is no God…all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
      – Joseph Stalin, athe.ist and murderer of 7 million humans by forced starvation alone.

      June 2, 2014 at 10:46 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        this is a direct quote from Stalin to a very close friend after he had read Darwin.

        June 2, 2014 at 10:48 pm |
        • igaftr

          scot
          Why is it that guys like you keep trying to associate the famines caused by failed economic policies and political upheaval, with atheism?

          Did they do these thing BECAUSE of their not believing in gods, was that the noted reasons, like so many religious zealots who site your god and your religion for the atrocities they commit.

          You are trying to throw more smoke.

          You can't even draw a correlation, let alone a causation.

          Is your argument so weak that you have to resort to these false relationships?

          Did Stalin ever say he was going to create economic policies that would result in mass famine BECAUSE he did not believe in gods?
          Try being honest scot...it would be refreshing from you.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:49 am |
        • Akira

          I'm rather surprised he actually read something you had said, that many people died because of starvation due to famine.
          Of course, he did switch it up to forced starvation, but that's just the hyperbole aspect of his writing coming out.

          I wonder how he can reconcile famine with atheism?

          June 3, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "7 million humans by forced starvation alone."
          -----------------
          This is one of the less hyperbolic comments thrown around here regarding Communist despots.

          The famines in the USSR between 1930-1933 totaled perhaps five million excess deaths. They began in Kazhakhstan in 1930 (1.3M). The famine in the Ukraine in 1932-1933 was much worse (3.3M). Stalin did seal the borders of the Ukraine after requisitioning Ukrainian grain for other republics and to raise capital for industrialization purposes with the full knowledge that people in the Ukraine would die and millions did.

          Half a million died of starvation in the Gulag during 1941-1943. The Nazi invasion during this time caused shortages and starvation all over the USSR but arguably Stalin's regime sent them to the Gulag in the first place.

          The following article is well written and uses sources that became available after the fall of the USSR:
          http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/mar/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/

          June 3, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          right, and Stalin had NO IDEA people were dying due to starvation in his own country. that's like asking me to believe in evolution, pure foolishness.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          and it was forced, Stalin knew fully well what his policies were going to do but he did it anyway, he was a filthy rotten godless commy whom you approve of.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:46 pm |
        • Akira

          Not even Stalin could control weather, Scot.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:50 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "... and Stalin had NO IDEA people were dying due to starvation in his own country ... he was a filthy rotten godless commy whom you approve of."
          --------------–
          Are you unable to read?

          Where do I either approve of Stalin or indicate that he was unaware of the consequences of his industrialization policy?

          June 3, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          GOP
          i was not addressing your particular comment.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • Akira

          Scot,
          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

          June 3, 2014 at 10:08 pm |
    • observer

      (Gen. 7:23 “God wiped out every living thing on the earth—people, livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and the birds of the sky. All were destroyed. The only people who survived were Noah and those with him in the boat.”
      – God's work

      June 2, 2014 at 10:48 pm |
    • awanderingscot

      "The Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism has two outstanding characteristics. One is its class nature:
      it openly avows that dialectical materialism is in the service of the proletariat. The other is its practicality:
      it emphasizes the dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on practice and in turn serves practice." – Mao Tse Tung, atheist, from the Little Red Book

      June 3, 2014 at 8:42 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Approximately 11 hours apparently.

      June 3, 2014 at 10:14 am |
  20. Reality

    Guns will not eradicate religion but education will.

    把胡说的所有宗教,不到十秒钟:无价!

    •至于人知道或可以知道的,有没有亚伯拉罕即犹太教,基督教和伊斯兰教的基础是不存在的。

    •至于人知道或可以告诉,没有摩西,即犹太教,基督教和伊斯兰教的支柱有目的的没有力气。

    •有没有加布里埃尔即伊斯兰教失败作为一种宗教。基督教部分失败。

    •有没有复活节即基督教完全失败作为一种宗教。

    •有没有莫罗尼即摩门教无非是一个商业崇拜。

    •圣/崇敬牛,猴神,种姓,投胎转世,因此印度教失败作为一种宗教。

    •脂肪佛这里,瘦那里佛,转世/重生佛无处不在使一个没有对佛教。

    •轮回的不断循环,直到启蒙达到并相信各种生物(天使? , tinkerbells ?等)存在,我们作为凡人,无法理解使一个没有对锡克教。

    加入可以书面请求的详细信息。

    快速搜索将会把胡说的任何其他团体自称为宗教。

    例如道教

    “道教的起源尚不清楚。传统上,老子谁住在第六世纪被认为是它的创始人。其早期的哲学基础和其后来的信仰和仪式是两个完全不同的生活方式。今天( 1982)道教称31,286,000追随者。

    传说,老子是一尘不染由一颗流星设想;在他母亲的子宫为82年进行;并诞生了一个完整的成长睿智的老人。 “

    June 2, 2014 at 11:47 am |
    • awanderingscot

      "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." – Mao Tse Tung, atheist, from the Little Red Book

      June 3, 2014 at 8:44 am |
      • igaftr

        scot
        Why do you post quotes and then throw in something that has NOTHING to do with the quote?

        It is like saying this:
        ""Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." – Mao Tse Tung, pants wearer, from the Little Red Book

        Try making honest points scot.

        June 3, 2014 at 12:38 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          i'm really sorry that 'hurt you in your feelings'; but the truth is that Mao was also an atheist who had a callous disregard for life.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:00 pm |
        • Akira

          Interestingly enough, the NRA seeks political power via the gun, also.

          June 3, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
    • Løki

      Und Sie Leute beschweren sich, wenn ich schreibe in Deutsch

      June 3, 2014 at 10:29 am |
      • awanderingscot

        "The philosophy of Marxism is materialism" – Lenin, atheist

        'Philosophical materialism is the outlook which explains that there is only one material world. There is no Heaven or Hell. The universe, which has always existed and is not the creation of any supernatural being, is in the process of constant flux. Human beings are a part of nature, and evolved from lower forms of life, whose origins sprung from a lifeless planet some 3.6 billion or so years ago. With the evolution of life, at a certain stage, came the development of animals with a nervous system, and eventually human beings with a large brain. With humans emerged human thought and consciousness. The human brain alone is capable of producing general ideas, i.e., thinking. Therefore matter, which existed eternally, existed and still exists independently of the mind and human beings. Things existed long before any awareness of them arose or could have arisen on the part of living organisms.'

        June 3, 2014 at 11:24 am |
      • awanderingscot

        Loki
        that's because this is an ENGLISH language blog. Haben Sie nicht ein paar wertlose Holz Idole, mit zu spielen?

        June 3, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • Løki

          Halt die Klappe, Meg

          June 3, 2014 at 11:33 am |
      • observer

        Communism is based on the idea of everyone bonding together to do what is best for mankind.
        Capitalism is based on the idea that man will be greedy and do what is best for himself.

        That's why communism will never work.

        June 3, 2014 at 11:34 am |
        • awanderingscot

          doing what's best for oneself doesn't equate with greed. greed is never good for oneself. but you are correct in saying communism will never work since people are naturally averse to laboring for those who wish not to work.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:41 am |
        • observer

          awanderingscot,

          The basis of communism is that education will result in EVERYONE contributing all they can. It's often ignorant conservatives who equate communism with not doing work.

          June 3, 2014 at 11:46 am |
        • awanderingscot

          not necessarily and it's ignorant to believe that merely having an education predisposes one to have an aversion to sloth. there is however a fatal flaw in communism and that is incentive. only an uninformed person would deny this.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:01 pm |
        • observer

          awanderingscot,

          Speaking of ignorant. education refers to TRAINING also. Indoctrination into working for the common good was a key part of communism. You need to READ more.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          it has everything to do with the human will and nothing to do with education or training, it is sad you cannot comprehend this.

          June 3, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
    • Reality

      And why did Communism take hold so strongly in places like Russia? Could it have been the policies of the "Christian" czars? Of course it was.

      As an added note:

      "Some have also claimed that early Christianity supported a form of communism through the teachings in the New Testament which emphasized sharing amongst everyone equally. Other ancient Jewish sects, like the Essenes, also supported egalitarianism and communal living.[1]" .

      June 3, 2014 at 6:54 pm |
    • Reality

      For those who do not read Chinese:

      Putting the kibosh on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

      • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

      • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

      • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

      • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

      • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

      • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

      • A constant cycle of reincarnation until enlightenment is reached and belief that various beings (angels?, tinkerbells? etc) exist that we, as mortals, cannot comprehend makes for a no on Sikhism.

      Added details available upon written request.

      A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

      e.g. Taoism

      "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

      Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

      June 3, 2014 at 6:55 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.