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June 21st, 2014
02:04 PM ET
Pope excommunicates Italian mobstersBy Delia Gallagher, CNN (CNN) - Using his strongest language to date, Pope Francis told Italian Mafia members Saturday that they are excommunicated from the Catholic Church. “Those who in their life have gone along the evil ways, as in the case of the Mafia, they are not with God, they are excommunicated," Francis said. It is the first time a Pope has spoken of excommunication for the Mafia. Excommunication, which excludes Catholics from the church, can be imposed by church authorities or incurred automatically for certain grave offenses. The Pope’s remarks will resonate strongly in this part of southern Italy, where the Mafia attempt to portray themselves as upstanding religious men in good rapport with the Catholic Church, in order to maintain local credibility. During a one-day visit to Calabria, in southern Italy, the Pope denounced the local mafia, called ‘Ndrangheta, as an example of “the adoration of evil and contempt for the common good.” According to reports, ‘Ndrangheta is one of the wealthiest international crime organizations, with an annual turnover of 53 billion euros, much of it from the global cocaine trade. Calabria also suffers from 56% youth unemployment, which the Mafia exploits with promises of jobs for disillusioned young people. “They must be told, No!” the Pope said to a crowd of over 100,000 gathered in Piana di Sibari, Calabria, for an outdoor Mass. Prosecutor: Pope faces threat from the mafia Earlier during his visit, Pope Francis met with relatives of a 3-year-old boy, Nicola Campolongo, who was the victim of an alleged Mafia hit in January. Nicknamed Coco, the boy was with his grandfather when they were both shot and their bodies subsequently burned in a car. It is not the first time the Pope has spoken out against the Mafia. In March in Rome at a meeting with families of victims, the Pope called directly on Mafia bosses to repent, saying "hell ... awaits you if you continue on this road.” Some anti-mafia prosecutors have worried that mobsters may target Pope Francis, who is reforming the Vatican, including its scandal-scarred bank, the Institute for Religious Works. "The strong will of Pope Francis, aiming to disrupt the gangrene power centers, puts him at risk. He disturbs the Mafia very much," Nicola Gratteri, an anti-mob prosecutor in Calabria, told CNN in November. (CNN's Daniel Burke contributed to this report.)
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Every 200 or 300 years a pope comes along and tries a new marketing strategy.
Ever notice the vatican always says it's sorry AFTER many years have passed? Not an honest organization.
Also, the vatican only says it's sorry after getting caught. Just like many criminals pretend remorse only after getting caught.
How quaint.
Some dude in a white dress and beanie thinks he can say something authoritative about a (supposed) maker of 600 s'e'x'tillion stars. Pardon, me, but who in the hell do these men in desses think they are ?
The patriarchs of the major Christian communities were once EQUAL. It's really funny how they made up the back-story to justify Roman supremacy, just like they invented most of Christianity, from their fertile immaginations. "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my *church*". Hahaha. There was no such THING as a "church" at the time, and the translated Greek work "ecclesia" was NOT a "church". Why would an Aramaic wandering preacher, who thought the end-timjes were immanent, use a specific reference to a Greek organization, or even NEED a "church" if the end-times were upon them ?
The followers would have said "Your WHAT ?" Even at the VERY end, (Acts1) "Lord wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel", the followers thought his mission was POLITICAL, and he was going to restore the kingdom, as THAT was the JOB of a messiah, (the "annointed" one). (Kings were annointed). All the other nonsense, (divinity, eternal life, salvation, trinity, etc etc etc), was cooked up later.
"cooked up later," what makes you think that?
Wasn't the trinity determined and debated at the council of Nicea?
Quaint? You obviously have little knowledge of Italian society.
The Catholic Church is more powerful than the Mafia there, and the Pope is one of the most powerful men in the world. The Mafia has traditionally bowed down to the Church. The Catholic clergy are among an elite that are able to trump decisions made by the Mafia.
This excommunication puts the Mafia in a difficult position. Their legitimacy and their authority is dependent upon the Church.
This excommunication puts the Mafia in a difficult position. Their legitimacy and their authority is dependent upon the Church..
LOLOLO....of course this is true since they've always worked together and then this upstart comes from South America and causes trouble...the MAFIA will see that he has an accident soon.....I'M SURE.
He is a brave man to excommunicate the Mafia. Good luck to him!
The Pope is a really nice guy...but they don't always finish first.
Might want to review the history of the "dress" and "beanie" before your next comment.
One thing for sure, the catholic church is the LAST group anyone should look to for moral compass.
They sure don't have the corner on 'Good', unless there's donation money to trim off from.
One thing for sure, you are the last poster here that one should see as trust worthy. How disgusting that you would spout off like that while know you completely, without a doubt deceive people on this site. You call out good people while you lie about yourself. How can you even post in good conscience, I couldn't. Tell people how many names you post under, I dare you.
I expose the truth, the vatican deceives. Get that one RIGHT!
I honestly have ZERO respect for your way dealing with what is a serious issue. ZERO.
I would expect many have zero respect for the vatican's deflections and denial of those suffering from abuse today.
Ignoring the abused and suffering!!! That's respectable in your mind?????
You have no shame.
rr: Seems that you are the untrustworthy here. You keep making claims and never back them. You're what...physically 90 but mentally 5?
You are once again misrepresenting what I have said, and it is greeting tiring, not to mention a form of freaking lying.
I said, over and over again, that I abhor the RCC's response to the problem they have with the pedophiles in their clergy. If you read my posts at all, you will see that not once have I condemned the entire church, just their response on this one issue!
Show me where I have condemned the church itself, or stop lying about me!
If you would like to condemn me, and the other people who speak out against pedophilia, then I suppose that is what you will do.
I don't care. I an right that the RCC's response on the pedophilia problem has been less than caring towards the victims of childhood rape. They covered it up. Period.
I
Meant for awanderingscot, who cannot seen to tell the difference between my condemning the response of the RCC to pedophilia and condemning the entire church itself, which has never been my position!
Akira
I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with atheism the way the RCC can be with pedophilia.
WHAT ? Atheism cannot be conflated with atheism ? What the hell is THAT supposed to mean. Atheism does not need "conflating" with atheism. Atheism IS atheism. Is someone retarded ?
Drugs are bad, hmmkay?
Bucky,
He is pointing out a mistake I made below; I meant to type I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with pedophilia the way the RCC can be with pedophilia.
I am not sure if that was his intent, but all it did was make me re-read what I had written, and that's when I caught the mistake. So in that, I thank him.
When one hears about the RCC, the first thing they think about is pedophilia. The responses here are testament to that.
What is the first thing one thinks of when atheism is mentioned? Hint, NOT pedophilia.
There is nothing hypocritical about that statement at all, note is there any condemnation of the Roman Catholic Church as a Christian denomination contained within that statement.
Akira
I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with atheism the way the RCC can be with pedophilia.
That's nice. When I think if atheism, I think of a person who believes in no gods of any sort
atheist generally see life as precious. It's organizations and dictatorships you are confused with.
I am not confused at all. I think you meant that reply for awanderingscot.
Oh, *I* see what awanderingscot is talking about.
I miss typed, what I meant to say is "I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with pedophilia the way the RCC can be conflated with pedophilia."
Thanks for pointing that out to me, awanderingscot!
Yes, I can see where "atheism cannot be conflated with atheism" would make zero sense, lol.
Thanks again for the catch.
the worst crimes weren't committed by the pedos, though they were awful;. Pedophilia is found in all walks of life. However covering up pedophilia is the worst and lowest crime of all. Why? because the pedo has an opportunity to destroy more lives. Those with destroyed lives are not helped and cope alone. A traumatized child left to cope alone is at the greatest risk to permanent mental illness and suicide.
The popes, bishops and cardinals cover ed up the crimes and denied children. More so, today they lobby against laws that would expose pedos and those who cover it up.
That's right,, they fight against the very lives they destroyed, again.
I understand that. I am in agreement with you.
Being aquatinted with a young girl who was raped by a pedophic priest who was then shuttled off to a different parish before falling off the face of the earth, I understand completely what you are trying to get accross.
Your words should be addressed to those who don't, rather than those who do...I have said before that all who have participated in either the crime or the coverup should be prosecuted. That stance has not changed for me.
And I would feel the same way no matter what organization was doing it. Secular or religious, it makes no difference.
This is too damaging.
Thank you.
Every time there's an article about Catholics, the pedophile jokes/accusations/apologetics get tossed around.
In 1962, The Vatican relased the 'Crimen Sollicitationis', which outlined how the church is to handle accusations of se.xual impropriety against clergy.
The stickiest point for most people is that not only was the doc.ument itself Top Secret for decades, it explictly stated that anybody involved in this type of investigation, including the accuser and potential witnesses, are sworn to secrecy regarding any and all details, upon penalty of excommunication (a fate worse than death for the devout).
This preoccupation with secrecy significantly slowed the investigative process – the backlog of referrals to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for action against se.xually abusive priests is so large that it takes 18 months to get a reply.
According to the John Jay report, 918 of 1872 (49%) substantiated allegations of abuse against Catholic clergy were addressed by sending the priest off for psychiatric counseling and then moving him to another parish, with nary a whisper to law enforcement. This number does not include priests relocated for reasons other than charges of se.xual impropriety.
The Irish Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse from 2009 came to the conclusion that ""the Dublin Archdiocese's pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child se.xual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its as.sets. All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities."
The long and short of it is that the Roman Catholic Church is guilty of criminal conspiracy. It doesn't matter if the number of pedo priests is any higher than in any other organization.
Until the Pope publically and unequivocally states that all allegations of abuse will immediately be referred to local law enforcement, the RCC will be viewed as an evil, predatory inst.itution by a lot of people.
And this is one reason why it is hard to take their "sancti.ty of life" seriously. Their main concern is one of maintaining power and money. Anyone who thinks the church's priority is anything of then the church itself is fooling themselves.
amen
agreed
Absolutely.
Still going on too it looks like.
Attorneys Seek Electronic Data on Accused Priests
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3485056.shtml?cat=1
anyone notice that rrbb333 turned off his profile..
I've seen this among other posters who play down pedophilia in the catholic church. Warning, pedos will deflect on issues regarding pedophilia, They are unable to address the issues without deflecting. They are manipulative in their behavior.
Why are you interested in my profile???? creepy.
You are calling me out because you can't see my profile? All along you know that you spam CNN articles with unsourced accusations under multiple screen names and then you bark about "deflecting" Wow man, you are honestly The classic Troll, seriously.
Talking to yourself only confirms what you have already proven on here...you're not normal and are in need of serious help for the delusions you obviously suffer from.
Stop looking for a fight...it doesn't help your side and only proves why people are foolish to accept it, in turn you help the Secular side (thank you).
Talking to myself? First of all you are reading all my posts which a bit telling.
Starting a fight? Your grasp of basic facts is very questionable. The accusation was initiated by "facts". He looks for a fight every time he posts off topic accusations. But at least your blind support of your follow poster of bigotry is consistent.
Stop posting garbage. .
Wow, you ignorant hypocrite. You started out here accusing someone of using varying handles; you then stepped on to a comment and made a mountain out of something that was non-existent. When asked to provide evidence to back your claims, you twist it around and act like a 5 year old who has been caught doing something they shouldn't. You're rather delusional.
You would not care anyway. As long as he supports bigotry he is all good.
Look it up:
"timethemiddleclass"
.http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/28/us/california-girl-pope-francis-vatican/index.html?iref=allsearch
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/03/world/europe/italy-pope-queen-elizabeth/index.html?iref=allsearch
victim" (he has 2 under this one).
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/12/world/europe/pope-baptisms/
Posting the same spam on one site under different names is trolling.
"
And in what world is his post accusing me of....what, wanting to keep my profile private., as if that is some nefarious plot to abuse kids, not picking a fight??? And you with this..."Well he is a priest, so you have to wonder with his 'shut up' tactics if perhaps he is hiding something himself." What type of a person post that????? Totally disgusting.
rr: That still does not prove it is the same person. It seems you're blowing smoke.
He spouts spam under multiple names any time the word "catholic" is in a CNN article. It does NOT matter what the article is about. His bigoted comments are laced with anti catholisim..That is a TROLL. He picks the fights....you support him...Not only that Truth (presumptive screen name) hints I am a child abusing priest...your posts make me vomit.
meaning "truths' posts make me sick.
rr: You have yet to prove your claim! You saying it is so does not make it fact. It shouldn't matter anyways.
Are you a priest? Do you stand behind the church?
Any support given to that church while they harbor criminals is not a good thing. They need a clear message sent to them from their congregation! A message that should be telling them that they turn over the peds or lose their flock. How hard is that to do? You don't agree with it, then stand against it.
What I'm trying to understand is why the hell do you care?
I am not a priest....but would be proud to be one. The give their lives for the poorest of the poor in ways that are unselfish and charitable as any in our society. You have no idea how priests work to help change the church regarding abuse!!! Good men working for change and healing at the smallest locale level. Bigoted comments that do not recognize the overall societal issues, the steps the church has already taken and the good will of so many serve to fuel those who suspect this is about anti-Catholicism and not abuse. You are in the way. Any support given to the Church? You mean support for work like sheltering the homeless, comforting the dying, feeding the hungery, supported the sick etc etc etc..this is what you call "not a good thing"? "They need a clear message? You mean like one you and your like give "you are a criminal cult that is full of pedos and you believe in fair tales" That is a message of hate and completely counter-productive. You paint Catholics as inhuman monsters. Nothing I have said support abuse or hiding criminals. That is you pre-judgement. You ask me why I care? Demonizing good people shows an agenda of hate and bigotry. Someone has to stand up to it. You don't care that someone makes 10,000 anti catholic posts and is dishonest? Think about it the other way around.
See below Truth prevails indeed.
I tell you why I care....I offer proof of "facts" deception....and yo come up with this???
"Yes, truth does prevail. You got caught being a deceptive ass and screamed foul when caught...rather childish."
What deception?????? Proof of spaming troll of facts that you supported and you come up with THAT beautuy. Truth does not matter to you.....
right, you got me....I totally just pick out two pre-selceted CNN articles on the Pope, found two posters at random who happen to spout the same exact same stuff, made up that they are the same as the guy spouting exactly the same stuff here....made up this whole thing to what?....wow you guys are good.
Unbelievable....wonder what you would say if the troll was a Catholic...nevermind, I have a pretty good idea.
rr: The point is that you still have not proven it is the same person. It doesn't matter if it is or not, you pointing it out comes across as you looking for a fight, which obviously you got.
victimofPedoPriests • 10 days ago
This is how the catholic popes, cardinals and bishops behave. Yes, and they were recently caught money laundering again.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/14/world/europe/pope-francis-interview-popemobile/index.html#comment-1435414170
ugetthefacts
This is how the catholic popes, cardinals and bishops behave. Yes, and they were recently caught money laundering again.
this tread
TimeMiddleClassRanThisShow • a month ago This is how the catholic popes, cardinals and bishops behave. Yes, and they were recently caught money laundering again.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/24/world/pope-mideast-trip/index.html#comment-1402456224
Spams CNN with same posts different users.....
Oh and here is the post he lied about:
VictimOfpedophiliaByPriests Chindokae • 5 months ago
agreed.. Keep in mind that these women also hang around an organization that treats women as 2nd class. Not the most advanced women, so they probably need to be reminded to feed their kid.
Truth prevails indeed...
Yes, truth does prevail. You got caught being a deceptive ass and screamed foul when caught...rather childish.
@Akira
Talk about spoiling for a fight. please stop.
The attack of the catholic trolls....
Pope Francis told Italian Mafia members Saturday that they are excommunicated from the Catholic Church.....
I love this....I excommunicated myself after making my communion when I DISCOVERED through many other sources that what the nuns told me in Sunday school was a BUNCH OF LYING CRAP....and then I gratefully discover REAL SCIENCE....that actually explained things and gave me the right to ASK as compared to the church THAT SAID IF I DIDN'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY TOLD ME UNQUESTIONINGLY I WAS GOING TO HELL.
i hope everyone enjoyed this pope......................because excommunicating the italian mafia probably wasn't a good career move.
sure it looked good on paper and sounded good in theory; however these are real people that if angered have the influence to make things very hard for the pope.
it wouldn't be the first time a pope died under "mysterious" conditions.
He better stay away from New Jersey!! (grin)
Why do you think he moved out of the Papal apartments ? JPI was murdered by 2 cardinals the night he fired them. All they had to do was walk down the stairs, one floor.
Maybe not. Maybe they reached some kind of backroom deal that we don't know about.
They are all good at back room, closed room and any other kind of hidden room when they do things....the Catholic church is one of the most secretive organizations on the planet...they make the MAFIA look like kids playing.
If I am not mistaken, this just means that they can't receive/participate in sacraments – baptism, communion, marriage, confession etc. They can still walk into church and go to mass, it just won't count.
it's baloney is all. The catholic church uses a fear tactic on the mob. It worked with children victims. They vatican threatened any victim or family who spoke of clergy abuse be excommunicated. 1962 doc-ument "Crimes of Solicitation"
That is illegal to use fear to quite victims. Imagine catholic grand parents in fear of god and excommunication?
wasn't wearing glasses.. correction
it's baloney. The catholic church uses a fear tactic on the mob. It worked on children victims after being sod-omized. The vatican threatened any victim or family who spoke of clergy abuse be excommunicated. In writing, 1962 doc-ument "Crimes of Solicitation"
This is an illegal tactic, to use fear to quite victims. Imagine catholic grand parents in fear of god and excommunication?
The justice system feared going after the vatican or deal with angry catholics who will cry 'persecution'. Imagine that! Wasn't it the children who were persecuted? Isn't it ALL children abused who are persecuted again as the catholic church successfully lobbies against victims denying them justice?
and while you're on your righteous soapbox, you want to make mention of the millions of unborn babies that are butchered and dumped unceremoniously into a dumpster? while no one condones pedophilia, let's keep some perspective.
@Scot
Think how many abortions would be avoided if the RCC stopped condemning contraception.
while that is without a doubt true; you'll never justify butchering unborn babies.
TOT: Point to the scripture that speaks specifically of abortion, not murder but abortion! Your god murders all the time if you want to put this into perspective...every time a miscarriage happens, your god allows it (if we go by your inept logic).
You might also wish to stop playing with yourself...you kill off numerous potential babies when you do.
"you'll never justify butchering unborn babies"
Just as you'll never justify your stupidity!
the poster is using what the catholic bishops tried using years ago. Imagine this!! "Aborting is far worse than child abuse". Go figure.
You'd think if they really believed in their god, their 'aborted' would go directly to heaven,, no suffering needed. Yet abused children will often suffer a life time of suffering. Imagine a victim waking from their trauma at age 40, 50, or more. A life of escape and now dealing with the pain of a missed life.
"You'd think if they really believed in their god, their 'aborted' would go directly to heaven,, no suffering needed." you are a sick and twisted individual for suggesting innocent defenseless babies don't suffer as a result.
Interesting.. Now why haven't you and the others brought in ALL the unwanted children into your homes? Is it that you are like a little kid who wants everything and ignores what is not convenient?
I see,, more kids to suffer and be unwanted. Or haven't you spent enough time understanding the effects of unwanted children becaue you are selfish with your ideals.
Yep. ra-pe and so-domize a child and then deny the help is OK with you. That's what the bishops said. I didn't say that. But go ahead, make up what I said to fit your manipulative mind.
Awanderingscot, where in the hell do you get the idea that uget supports abortions when he is actually speaking out against the systematic butchery of a child's body and psyche by a child rapist?
This is bordering on the absurd.
Don't you care what happene to the kid after it's born??
Actually i do care about children before AND after they are born. But you and your friends are here to condemn everyone in the Catholic church.
And I have not condemned the entire RCC, so stop lying about me.
There's a commandment specifically addressing that. Check it out, mmmkay?
Akira
I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with atheism the way the RCC can be with pedophilia.
Good for you. I conflate atheism with a person who doesn't believe in any gods. Because I know what the actual definition is.
Oh, *I* see what awanderingscot is talking about.
I miss typed, what I meant to say is "I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with pedophilia the way the RCC can be conflated with pedophilia."
Thanks for pointing that out to me, awanderingscot!
They (Mob & RCC) go way back in History. So this nothing more than PR and save face.
A useless and asinine attempt to save a face that can't be saved anyways I should say.
Sal, is that really you? I'm impressed that you appear to have learned some manners...kudos for not making this about Atheists and your hate for us.
Atheists presided over some pretty scary abuse.
"The true extent of child abuse in former Soviet bloc countries is at last being recognized, after years of its existence being completely denied, paediatricians and psychologists at a Budapest conference heard last week. Officially, child abuse didn't exist under the Communist....concept of a perfect (atheist) society,” said Dr Owen Lewis, associate clinical professor of psychiatry at New York City's Columbia Medical School and cofounder of the Children's Mental Health Alliance. “Soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989, it became very evident abuse was rampant."
No settlement pay out, not apologies, no programs...nothing. Years of un reported abuse of children. You are an atheist right? You must stand by these people.
What the hell does that have to do with what I said?
Once again moron, the definition of Atheist is one who does not believe in a god or gods. It claims nothing more, so the rest of your lunatic rant is pointless!
Skip the hypocrisy and skip the trolling!
You actually accused me of being an abuser because I called out bigots. How low can you go....absolutely revolting.
a bigot? or child protector. Your vatican enables the very destruction to children. Hiding pedo names. Helping cardinals escape DA questioning.
We are at the tip of the iceberg.
rr: Oh wow! You are an idiot! Your comment had absolutely nothing to do with what I said to Salero, so your point is moot.
Any children harmed by Atheists has not been done in the name of disbelief. Don't start with me about abuse idiot-I ensured a "good" Christian man went to jail for ten years. I would never support the abuse of a child, nor would I stand behind an organization that knowingly protects the abusers.
My disbelief in gods has absolutely no bearing on where I stand when it comes to abuse of any form...my conscience and moral standing are all I need to know that it is disgusting and should never be supported. You keep attending church and while you may not support the abuse directly, you inadvertently are...grow a damn back bone and stop putting your dollar in to them-without your money and the money of others like you, they start to crumble but at least you'd get a message across.
AND .....My belief in God has absolutely no bearing on where I stand when it comes to abuse of any form.
EXACTLY. You try to tie them together. "He is a priest and he probably has something to hide" Your disgustingly bigoted comment revels you intentions. Your comments are revoltingly bigoted yet you claim the high ground for yourself....You lose.
Or you could say "My belief in Catholicism has absolutely no bearing on where I stand when it comes to abuse of any form.
rr: You missed the point you idiot! First off, my initial comment had nothing to do with you or your crazy beliefs. Second, you are a proven loser on here, only out looking to start a battle with anyone possible...you are nothing but a blemish on humanity.
I will make it simple....
You say I support the church...children were abused in the church...I must support abuse.
You support Atheism....children were abused in the name of atheism....you must support abuse.
Don't like it....too bad...
If you can be idiotic so can anyone.....
"children were abused in the name of atheism"
This is where your reasoning failed. They were abused for a lot of bad reasons, you would have to work very hard to somehow equate atheism with these bad reasons.
The main reason totalitarian govt's don't want religion, isn't atheism, it's sharing power.
The catholic abuse has nothing to do the Catholicism.
rr: You are such an idiot! Once again loser, my initial comment had nothing to do with you...keep up moron.
This pope is good. Kicked the mafia out!
while denying children abused and protecting pedos,, seems like a deflection
SHHHHHH, the children don't matter...these people care about keeping the cult alive.
I guess my bookie can't go to church anymore.
How is the Don going to become a Godfather now.
From the Urban dictionary: "A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic" The story is about the Pope and the Mob.
Guess reading through all the posts,, everyone must be a troll. Just not you, huh?
A forum is a place where people discuss what interests them. More often, their are deeper issues relating to those mentioned in the topic. My,, that makes the other posts normal and expected.
However, continuously calling posters a 'Troll',, is being a troll. Clearly off topic.
"there are deeper .."
You flame any CNN article that has the word " catholic" in it with your spam. You are the definition of a troll.
You mean vatican related. Yep, I do.
The catholic church's lobby efforts deny ALL children abused, no matter who abused. When an organization as this destroys children's lives all over again by lobbying against them, all to protect its own reputation first,, they need to be exposed.
How disgusting it is to use power and wealth to strip children who were already ra-ped. Destroying them again. Dominating them. Squashing them.
.... yet you made some ridiculous post above about Atheists in former Soviet bloc countries ? ... hypocrite..
Well...that's just too bad if you supporters of child rapists within your pedophile infested cult are being called out and you call those of us who find you disgusting, trolls. We're not going away and being bullied by you and the Catholic League in your attempt to silence those of us who speak for the children. You are repulsive and disgusting. Filth like you make me want to vomit.
Anyone who posts the same message under multiple names on the same site (and there is no doubt "facts" does exactly that) is not to be trusted. He is not interested in child abuse, only catholic abuse. Under other names he supported the president of SNAP who did not report his norther when he knew he was an abuser. He says educator abuse is "student in student" when he knows is not true. He does not say "priests did bad things" he says "priests are all bad" is like the racist who trots out black crime stats and says "see..they are all like that. Of course people in the church did bad things. No one is saying they did not. But using this to express bigotry is wrong. Period. Your rude rant is is misplaced.
his brother
Btw under another screen name he called Catholic women "to stupid to know when to feed their babies because they are catholic" (the article was about the pope encouraging women to feed their children in church). Go ahead, support all you like. Not me.
I've NEVER posted such a thing. You disgust me. Now throwing in posts making it look like I bash women? You are filth. Rather you represent what the catholic church truly is 'A big lie out for wealth and power;. A big lie that destroyed children and now needs to destroy them again. The bully church.
And your pope excommunicates the mafia????? Hypocrites
From the article "Feed your hungry babies, Pope tells mothers in Sistine Chapel" "Not the most advanced women, so they probably need to be reminded to feed their kid." Your exact words. Looked it up. Took time but worth it.
You probably don't remember. You have about 10000 anti Catholic posts. but i do.
I never said such a thing, You are pathetic..
Must make you happy the catholic church successfully lobbies against children ra-ped and so-domized.
Lying seems to be OK with the devout.
You didn't say that and you don't post under multiple names at CNN? hmmm.....I have no problem calling out people who do not tell the truth..
rrbb333, you have to demonstrate that they actually lied. You haven't done that.
If this were a criminal court, your case would be dismissed with prejudice for lack of evidence.
Sorry.
Watch the next time a story about the Pope comes to CNN. Look for "timeforthemiddleclasstorule" "victimofabuse" or something similar to that (or look up old story's, google "cnn pope feed babies" and see what you get, \ you will notice a striking similarity....and he said what he said about women...without a doubt.
So....no proof, Richard?
True colors.
Yes, the popes, cardinals and bishops true colors flair. Excommunicating the mafia. The vatican – It's only wrong when others do as they do.
Father Tom Doyle, a once canon expert who reported to the vatican exposed the cover ups. He was hushed. You can look up interviews with him in them. He stated that the priests will use whatever tactics they can to shut people up and humiliate victims. It's a pack they have with the vatican, they must support 100% what the vatican says and does, whether it is right or wrong. Look it up.
Good, change the subject, because it is true. Your use of the word "priest" in the pejorative is just to those who use the N word when they talk about African Americans. You are a no doubt bigot, you hurt your cause with your prejudgement.
rather as 'N'azi
While the catholic church lobbies against children victims,, I don't see the priests as a group standing beside victims demanding justice.
Odd, huh?
rr: Do you have anything useful to say outside of making fallacious claims? The one showing their true colors is you...stop being an ass and either back your claims or stick to the topic at hand. Stop denying that the Catholic Cult is full of peds who will never be prosecuted but then again it is obvious that you support them and don't give a rats ass about the innocent children...making you complicit in the crimes.
You are a liar. Show one time that supported abuse. You lie. "Facts" lies. Fun group.
A lot of blathering from you but nothing yet to prove you are being honest. Trolling must be pleasurable for you.
I suppose it's just another warfare tactic they use to deflect from the abuse cover ups. Must be anyone who posts the truth must all be the same person
Well he is a priest, so you have to wonder with his 'shut up' tactics if perhaps he is hiding something himself.
:"Well he is a priest" -What a totally bigoted thing to say. You would never say that to a real person. What a brave guy. I am not a priest but I would be proud to be one. They shelter the homeless, feed the poor, visit the sick, help in times of trouble, stand up for others, comfort the dying, give their lives for the poorest of the poor, help people through their worst times....etc. etc.etc. all for virtually no pay and at the sacrifice of their own needs. But you don't care about those people, otherwise you would not vilify people you don't know with you opinion. Don't give me this crap that "they stand with the abusers" you have no idea what they do. Disgusting.
Looks like RB333 is the troll. Adds nothing to the discussion, just posts deflecting from others posts with "troll". Now THAT'S a troll.
From the Gaurdian Newspaper UK
"Certainly the safeguards against paedophilia in the priesthood are now among the tightest in the world. That won't stop a steady trickle of scandals; but I think that objectively your child is less likely to be abused by a Catholic or Anglican priest in the west today than by the members of almost any other profession."
Thanks to the victims and their families. At first the bishops refused to change. Victims and families went to law makers to demand the church do something.
If it weren't for the victims and families, it'd be ra-pes and so-domies as usual.
More so, justice needs to be served. BTW,, the vatican still covers up cases. They refused to hand over names of priests in Ca and MN, to name a few.
and imagine what goes on in third world countries with this church.
organizations like jewish synagogs, the Boy Scouts, multiple sports organizations, the UN, multiple Protestant churches, the Jehovah witness, the BBC, multiple public school systems, etc etc etc, all of whom abused and covered up at the same or worse rate then the Catholic Church, do not have procedures as good as the church had now. All of these organizations have victims who rightly push for change.
Has now
because there were far more destroyed lives in the catholic church. With so many victims to demand change, it happened. It took quite a while to get the church to do it right. In fact the victims and families stayed on top of the church. Each church attempt to throw something together was under close correction by the families. The church had to keep going back to refine it.
The catholic church was forced and monitored. It is still closely monitored today.
Where the church has won is in beating up children victims, denying justice and help to them. The catholic church's lobby efforts have been winning over victims who struggle in life. Nice victory, destroying those you already destroyed as children.
He's with the Catholic League, perhaps Bill Donohue himself. They support and help safeguard child raping priests by harboring them and shuffling them onto other victims in other dioceses and churches in other states. They are the most repulsive organization that has ever existed.
Bill Donahue called children victims liars. Imagine that! Humans suffering and many with permanent mental illness. Others committed suicide.
Nice guy.
"God" and "Jesus" must be proud of Bill
I'd like to point out that if you expose vatican crimes against children, you must be a troll. Please forget that children lost lives and many suffer today from the abuse. The vatican and its crusades to destroy those already destroyed don't want you to stand up for the children.
Do as the vatican does, ignore the children abused. God will love you for that.
Trolls, Trolls everywhere the Trolls
OK priest
Yes, so please troll along now back to your bridge and let the adults talk.
It's a priest. I saw the same handle where he stated it in an entirely different discussion.
rrbb333:
"don't get involved....this guys are professional trolls....don't fed them."
"...is a professional troll....believe me. He uses so many user names he ..."
"Wow...I count at least 4 user names for the same guy!..."
"You look to fool people here. People get mad with they are found out, ok. Go at it. But you have no credibility."
"You must get paid!!!! How many user names do you go by?"
Okee dokee, so if we take out all the accusations that rrbb333 so far has not been able to back for this page, up let see what kind of argument is left:
N O T H I N G
Try "timeforthemiddleclasstorise"...."victimofabuse"..."ugetthefacts"....etc.etc. who knows how many more.
Where? And like I said, even if it's the same person – who cares? You have an opportunity to address the points made or to continue to be a bag of hot air.
Prove it is the same person. Listing different aliases proves nothing! Geez, you're ignorant!
wow!!! Those are some good handles. I guess I must be a troll.. After all, it's only me who points out the lies and deceit of the catholic church. No way anyone else could have anything negative to say.
odd, " "timeforthemiddleclasstorise"...."victimofabuse"..."ugetthefacts"."
None of those handles are even in this thread, anyplace. Wouldn't a troll need to use different names in the same thread? Off all the posts in this article, none here.
Oh, a troll must be someone who cares for children, unlike you and the vatican.
none except my handle "ugetthefacts"
Your definition of a troll is one who hates child rapists and exposes you who rape children or support those who rape children? You are disgusting and repulsive.
The definition of a troll is someone who uses stereotyped made media and just spams it. The pedophilia thing is one of the stupidist anti-christian remarks that idiots use just so they can push their agenda on the "anti-religious" gimmick. It's not like atheism never had any representatives that were pedophiles. I may not be catholic or a theist myself but it's something about self-righteous idiots like new aged atheists of the net that just annoys me.
i know atheism is merely a product of knowledge (actually uneducated) gained by google articles, but seriously kids. Atheism statistically holds the record of the highest amount of attrocities in the world. The fact that it has managed to give the uneducated a sense of arrogance about their false intelligence is one of them.
Now that was about as uneducated as rrbb333's posts.
I suppose when debate is lost, the immature will post as thedebatergater did.
I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with atheism the way the RCC can be with pedophilia.
I am not an atheist, but I most certainly can speak out against the pedophilia and the pattern of cover-up that exists within the RCC.
Denying it exists is what the RCC is counting on. I hope Pope Francis changes that and directs those who do it/cover it up be turned over for prosecution.
"Atheism statistically holds the record of the highest amount of attrocities in the world. "
That's a stinking lie because you pulled out of your azz
"I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with atheism the way the RCC can be with pedophilia."
Really Akira? so pedophilia was somehow invented by the RCC? and atheism is somehow not atheism? so we cannot applaud the good things that most people in the RCC do and condemn them for the evil that a headline grabbing minority do? and so you, 'truth', doris, 'facts' and other atheists here feel justified in your judgments. you condemn Christians for being what you consider judgmental and then do the very same thing? your hypocrisy is staggering.
Snotty: "so pedophilia was somehow invented by the RCC?"
Where did Akira say that it was invented by the RCC? Really reaching there, hey scotty?
Really Akira? so pedophilia was somehow invented by the RCC?
I never said that, did I? Nope.
and atheism is somehow not atheism?
I never stated that, either. Do not input your own biases into what I've said.
so we cannot applaud the good things that most people in the RCC do and condemn them for the evil that a headline grabbing minority do?
Oh, I never said anything against the RCC, except their inability to turn over the pedophiles over for prosecution. This is the only thing I have ever spoken out against. As a matter of fact, you will see me defending Catholicism all the time. Your friend, Rainier, condemns me for that constantly.
and so you, 'truth', doris, 'facts' and other atheists here feel justified in your judgments. you condemn Christians for being what you consider judgmental and then do the very same thing?
I have told you repeatedly I am not an atheist. Please remember that.
your hypocrisy is staggering.
Stop lying about me, awanderingscot.
Show me where I've been hypocritical, or shut up.
I am not a hypocrite because I speak out against a Christian body that fails to protect the children they are supposed to be teaching about the ways of God. And they do have a record of cover-ups.
Oh, *I* see what awanderingscot is talking about.
I miss typed, what I meant to say is "I'm sorry, but atheism cannot be conflated with pedophilia the way the RCC can be conflated with pedophilia."
Thanks for pointing that out to me, awanderingscot!
..There have been zero studies on clergy abuse in the catholic church, except for the fabricated vatican one;
the catholic bishops went to John Jay college to ask them to gather statistics on child abuse. John Jay thought this was an internal bishops docu-ment. It was PAID FOR by the catholic bishops. Data was to be gotten from the bishops. You'd think the bishops could have easily asked each other. There's a reason they didn't. Not a single victim or justice department was asked to participate. In fact none knew this was happening. Keep in mind there are many bishops who abused children. This was a bishops report of what the bishops wanted to broadcast.
Once compiled, the bishops released this internal doc-ument to the public. Yet it wasn't what John Jay expected. Yep, the same data they could have fabricated themselves however it wouldn't look quite as nice without a John Jay logo on it.
Today, John Jay (probably felt they were a product of manipulation) states this study is grossly in error. John Jay does not support it.
This is how the catholic popes, cardinals and bishops behave. Yes, and they were recently caught money laundering again.
It is a criminal organization under the guise of religion. The fact that the pope excommunicated these mobsters is odd given that the Italian mob are the reason that group has so much power in Italy and in some places around the world.
Wait!! I agree with you. That means you must be me.. Or I must be you. That's what rb333 says
Of course that wouldn't work unless the bishops could throw blame on public schools. Imagine that!!!! Like little juveniles.
A study was performed in public schools to determine abuse. The largest number of abuses where student on student. The next largest were in statements, ie 'What a nice dress Mary'. There were virtually no cases of forced so-domy, forced ra-pe, where the child was left to cope alone.
In the catholic church. 50% of cases were pedophilia, most were so-domy, forced ra-pe. However, not true in public schools, it was rare when the child was left to cope alone.
The catholic church markets the public school study in an attempt to make themselves look good. However anyone reading the details will see that public schools were responsible, unlike the catholic church. How did the catholic church handle it? They were instructed to use threats when needed, direct from the Vatican popes and cardinals.
Imagine if the public school study only allowed teachers and their bosses input abuse data into the study? That’s what the catholic church did in their John Jay study. However in the public school study, they sol-icited students. That’s right, SOLICITED.
Imagine now if the bishop had sol-icited students?
Source? Why does the John Jay report still appear on their web site?
It;s merely states that it is authorized for publication by Msgr. William P. Fay
General Secretary
A priests!!! That's right!!!
It does not say it is accurate. In fact john Jay states the study was flawed. All studies remain on the site because it was funded, that's the rule.
Another game by the bishops. The bishops paid for the study and they said it's OK for others to use it. Nothing more. Zero validation from John Jay. ALL studies paid for are available for anyone to see. The bishops made it look like John Jay said "Go ahead, this is a good study" Wrong. ALL studies are posted there, that's the rule – Good and Bad ones.
In fact the PRIEST was the one who said go ahead and use it. He made it appear to be official
Wow...I count at least 4 user names for the same guy!!! Hi, Victim (2), Time for the middle class etc etc etc. One guy, one opinion. Wow....unbelievable.
How are you determining what you claim? What other screen names go with ugetthefacts??
let's say that were the case,, does that mean my posts are wrong? In error? I'm just trolling? I really don't care for children victims?
Rrbb333,
What do you have against the victims of child rape by priests?
Next maybe you should excommunicate the cartels in central/south america... oh wait, no, you're speaking out against legalization and protecting their profits instead.
While public schools have exhibited responsibility in getting immediate help for children victims of pedophilia, the catholic church has virtually zero cases across North America where the child was tended to. Rather the child was threatened.
The catholic church protected itself over the lives of children.
More so,, the public school system did not have doc-uments demanding the silence kept or the victim and their family would be kicked out of the school system.
The catholic church DID!!!!!
You must get paid!!!! How many user names do you go by? One opinion, one guy, 12 screen names.
How are you determining what you claim? What other screen names go with ugetthefacts?
He cuts and pastes the same un source stuff all the time....no doubt about it. Ask him....maybe wont' lie.
I suppose they need to deflect,, they think it helps protect the filth in their church
Well fine, then to prove your point, if you have one, all you would need to do is give an article, date and time stamp where I can see the same post.
His hyperlink goes to his WP blog page, sane as yours. I've seen him post against pedophilia before. He seems to be a victim's advocate.
To what are you advocating for, rbebbking2?
And who cares if it's a different screen name – can you address the point made or not?
You look to fool people here. People get mad with they are found out, ok. Go at it. But you have no credibility.
He knows his stuff. You don't. The end.
Why not just address what he is saying?
Because he supports child rapists and his pedophile infested cult and must defend his cult no matter what the cost. He is disgusting filth.
@TruthPrevails1:
You wrote: The difference is that if it happens in the public school system, the perps are not moved around so they can avoid persecution.
Actually, that's factually incorrect. Congressman George Miller formed a Congressional Study that found the exact opposite was true. His findings were found to be true and, in fact, only the tip of the iceberg. Look it up.
And just to back up my statements:
http://georgemiller.house.gov/press-release/gao-investigate-cases-abuse-and-neglect-schoolchildren-millers-request
Guess what? His proposed bill to END this abuse was voted OUT!
Well that failed to back up your statement. You claimed the perps were moved around...nowhere in the link did it say that.
Read the report. The REPORT– not the article. And then read the OTHER REPORT that was mentioned in the story.
You can't just rely on news stories. Go to the source.
Then link the REPORT. Then link THE OTHER REPORT.
Because from what was in the article if the link you DID provide, no pedophilia was mentioned.
I like to get my data direct from the source; The victims and families directly.
Because the links contained within the Miller page did not work, btw. Maybe it's just my device.
In any case:
Earlier this month, the National Disability Rights Network released a report detailing hundreds of cases where abusive uses of seclusion and restraint by school staff injured or traumatized schoolchildren, many with disabilities. The report revealed cases where students were abusively pinned to the floor, handcuffed, locked in closets, and subjected to other acts of violence. In some of the cases, children died.
Not pedophilia. Horrific, but not what the RCC is doing.
You linked it saying it would back up your claims...it didn't...that is a "you" problem not a "me" problem.
This was physical abuse and neglect, not pedophilia; this is what is under discussion – the pattern of cover-up of the rape of children.
The priests are routinely moved to different parishes.
What TP stated IS factually true.
Why would you think that, awanderingscot? Do you think they are?
I don't.
Ugetthefacts is a professional troll....believe me. He uses so many user names he can't even keep track!!!! Say something against the "Middleclass"....
Wow, not sure where you get that or what that would have to do with anything, other than you looking for an argument...seems rather infantile.
Prove it. I think you are making this up.
whatever it takes to think you can deflect from the crimes of the catholic church, go ahead.
And you, rrbb, are a professional pedophile apologist. Proud?
Uget didn't post the OP.
Seeyouell did. Not sure what point you're making, unless you're accusing seeyou of being a troll as you have accused uget of being without any supporting facts to back up your accusation.
so Akira, is everyone in the RCC a pedophile?
Where on earth would you get the idea that all members of the RCC are pedophiles?
I have family who are RC. What an awful thing to say about them.
You should be ashamed of that thinking.
History of public schools has shown that teachers will blow in other teachers and the child would most often receive immediate medical care.
Odd that teachers and principles support Bills to become laws that would expose pedos and those who cover it up, yet the catholic church lobbies to stop such laws to protect themselves. I'd say that's the tell all.
kinda like the support teachers gave Mary Kay LeTourneau right?
I don't know one teacher who supported MKL. Not one.
They denounced her completely, at least the ones in my area.
Can't say for the rest of the US, though.
Wow, my point stands. bishopaccountability.org shows a huge list of peds.
The point is that the peds within the Catholic group of peds are moved around more often than in public schools. Your article points to one opinion...nice try though.
As for your other questions, reading comprehensions is not your best skill. Nowhere did I say 'all'. As for supporters, yes...if you know what is happening and keep supporting the church you are inadvertently supporting it and not caring about the children over the church.
actually, the list in bishopaccountability represent less than 1/3. They stopped adding names when the local DA's were unable to prosecute due to statutes of limitations. Seems the catholic church's lobby efforts have been successful to this date.
Here's the scary part; The most violent pedos will traumatize the child much longer in life. This makes violent pedophilia the perfect crime, thanks to the catholic church who cares more of its own reputation over the damaged lives of humans. .
Thank you. The Catholic church would start to crumble if people would stop attending and in turn supporting them. If the congregation had a back bone, they'd stand up and threaten to walk from the cult if the peds weren't turned over.
Actually, the catholic church would likely not crumble. It has vast wealth in businesses and stocks. All the money they robbed off people. The vatican does not feed the poor, people do that. The vatican trims the top of donations.
In fact in the USA alone, the catholic church receives billions in grants, subsidies and tax exemptions,, far less than spend. That is a clear indicator that they steal from ALL tax payers.
meant the catholic church receives far more tax benefits than they actually spend.
,,meant the catholic church receives far more tax benefits than they actually spend.
while you are right that there is massive corruption in the Catholic Church, they still have one of the highest counts of charity work historically.
Funny thing about this argument is, from all the hypocritical evils anti-christians/anti-theists/anti-catholics want to point out, if there god is real then he surely is unhappy about that.
It is good people who do charity work,, the vatican gets a cut of the cash.
Please don't steal from the good works of others and hand it to the vatican as if to balance good and bad. Be pleased there are good people doing good things.
don't get involved....this guys are professional trolls....don't fed them.
Sounds more like you're the troll...do you have anything of substance or intelligence to add to the dialogue?
Apparently, children don't matter to rrbb333. He keeps defending the pedophiles.