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President Obama's Ramadan slap at Muslims
President Barack Obama speaks as he hosts an Iftar dinner in the at the White House on July 14, 2014.
July 28th, 2014
09:38 AM ET

President Obama's Ramadan slap at Muslims

Opinion by Salam Al-Marayati, special to CNN

(CNN) - Presidents George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush all met with American Muslims, as they did with most other religious groups.

President Barack Obama, under advice from his aides that association with Muslims is politically damaging, has yet to invite American Muslim organizations and leaders into the Oval Office for substantive discussions on domestic and international policies.

Yes, Muslims from all over the country accepted a White House invitation to attend the Iftar dinner earlier this month with the President to break our fast, to break bread, and to build bridges of understanding.

In Ramadan, a month for spiritual replenishment in the Islamic calendar, an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims around the world perform an obligatory fast from predawn to sunset for the purpose of purifying one’s soul through prayer and self-sacrifice.

But instead of feeling spiritually uplifted and civically engaged by attending an Islamic celebration in the White House, the Muslim guests were shocked and dismayed when they heard the President say, “Israel has the right to defend itself.”

For Muslims, that talking point is code for whitewashing decades of atrocities committed against the people of Gaza: the kids killed on the Gaza Beach, the civilians bombed in the most densely populated cage in the world, and the attacking of civilians who resort to donkey carts for transportation.

Obama began his presidency conveying aspirations of bridging the divide between the United States and the Muslim world. He needs American Muslims to be a part of that mission. Instead he has continued the unfortunate legacy of excluding of anyone who supports Palestine.

Palestine is a dirty word in Washington and criticizing Israel's policies toward Palestinians is a political taboo.

We can talk about Darfur, Nigeria, Sudan, Pakistan, Iran and every Arab country. We can criticize all of them, along with Russia and China, and call for sanctions on human rights violators. But bringing up Israel's atrocities in the West Bank or Gaza is met with denial and disgust, generating millions of disaffected Americans in the process.

There is more tolerance in Israel for critiquing the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza than there is inside the Beltway.

America is our home, and Barack Obama is our president. It is our duty to express our disenchantment and to demand change when the leader of our country is wrong.

The President must acknowledge that we, the American people, are funding the siege of Gaza. The whole world knows that America is giving political cover for the military occupation of Palestinians.

It is time to tell America the truth of our complicity in robbing Palestinians of their human dignity.

Terrorism is evil, and we will continue to partner with the President in countering the rhetoric of ideological religious extremism and to end the scourge of terrorism, not for political gain but out of our sacred duty.

Now, the President needs to acknowledge that occupation is evil, and it is time he recognizes those engaged in nonviolent resistance against the occupation. They are those who live every day through checkpoints, blockades, home demolitions and expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

Call it an internment camp, a prison - Gaza has become unlivable.

The President must also face a reality: Not a single Muslim serves as a senior policy adviser in the White House or as an under secretary in the departments of Justice, Homeland Security, State or Defense.

There is no Middle East envoy of Muslim background. The President has yet to name a Muslim as ambassador to any of the 50 Muslim-majority countries.

The White House Ramadan dinner cannot be the quota for engagement or enfranchisement.

We cannot give Obama a pass because he has said the right things in regard to his respect for Islam, nor can we release him from accountability out of fear of Republicans.

Muslims represent 4 million to 6 million Americans and include practically every race and socioeconomic level in the United States. They vote and contribute, and they helped Obama win the presidency.

But Obama has gone so far in proving he’s not Muslim that he has excluded Muslims from vital national conversations. We’ll continue to engage his administration to correct this egregious breach of public trust.

We demand that he fulfill his promise for change and be the president we voted for. Otherwise, America will be less American.

Salam Al-Marayati is president of the Muslim Public Affairs Council. The views expressed in this column belong to Al-Marayati. 

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Foreign policy • Islam • Israel • Middle East • Muslim • Opinion • Politics • Prejudice

soundoff (574 Responses)
  1. Dyslexic doG

    we had better remove large sections of the bible we know and start telling a different story ...

    A 1500-year-old bible has been discovered in Turkey. Discovered in 2000, the book that contains purportedly the Gospel of Barnabas has been transferred by the Turkish government to the Ethnography Museum of Ankara with a police escort. Barnabas was a disciple of Christ, and in the work, claims that Jesus was not crucified, instead it says he ascended to heaven alive and Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place. Furthermore, the 1500-year-old bible states that Jesus Christ was not the son of God, but simply a prophet who passed on the word of God.

    August 4, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
    • LaBella

      Barnabas Collins?

      August 4, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
      • tallulah131

        I can't believe I missed this reference the first time around. LOL.

        August 6, 2014 at 2:35 am |
    • kermit4jc

      are you serious about thuis Barnabas thing???? you are so ignorant of the origins of this so called "gospel"

      August 4, 2014 at 3:03 pm |
  2. ddeevviinn

    He came from nowhere. He is YHWH – the self existent one. He is eternal, without beginning or end, a concept while unfathomable to our human minds, nevertheless true.

    I know this from the writings in the christian narrative known as " the bible". It makes the claim to be the Word of God, I accept that claim. No need to retort with charges of "the bible is myth, full of errors, uncertain authorships yadayadayada". I'll go out on a limb here and guess that I am more adept and fluent in the biblical languages, higher criticism and textual criticism than yourself, so let's not travel down that path.

    August 4, 2014 at 1:37 am |
    • ddeevviinn

      Oops. Sorry evolve, meant for previous post.

      August 4, 2014 at 1:41 am |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        He came from nowhere. He is Voldemort – the self existent one. Through his horcrux he believes he is eternal, without beginning or end, a concept while unfathomable to our muggle minds, nevertheless true.

        I know this from the writings in the english narrative known as " the Harry Potter series". It makes the claim to know the World of Wizards, I accept that claim. No need to retort with charges of "Harry Potter is myth, full of errors, uncertain authorships yadayadayada". I'll go out on a limb here and guess that I am more adept and fluent in wizard languages, higher criticism and textual criticism than yourself, so let's not travel down that path... "Crucio!!..."

        Agghhhh! We can't take being tortured by your senseless postings anymore! Are you trying to do to us what you did to Alice and Frank Longbottom?

        August 4, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Wow devin, you don't want people to go down that road because you have convinced yourself and no amount of evidence would ever sway you, even if that evidence shows the grandiose flaws and fallacies within the book. Talk about blatant ignorance. The fact that you THINK you are an expert and no-one else has the knowledge you do is pure arrogance and doesn't merit your opinion any respect. There is nothing that supports your book that doesn't revolve right back to its origins, so skip the Holier Than Thou crap and try to accept that yes, you could be wrong and this is merely your belief that doesn't pertain to 5 billion people on this planet (are they not as special as you or important???).

      August 4, 2014 at 6:50 am |
      • ddeevviinn

        A couple of things:

        1. Never made the claim of being an " expert" . In actuality I'm far from it. So there's fallacy number one.

        2. I did not invent or compose the ideology that is known as Christianity . It has been around for 2000 + years and I had absolutely no hand in determining its tenets. I simply believe it, so any claims of "Holier than thou crap" are just childish attempts at deflection. And this would be your second fallacy.

        3. Thinking that you have any idea or clue as to what amount of evidence would or would not convince me is naive, and of course, your third fallacy.. I have considered ALL the evidence from both sides, over many years. I have reached different conclusions than yourself.

        August 4, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • colin31714

          As I understand it, your "evidence" is not evidence at all (at least the "evidence" you have tabled when I have discussed the matter with you is not). You have cited the cosmological, ontological and teleological arguments, all of which are little more than mental gymnastics in an endeavor to reach a foregone conclusion.

          Also, they argue just as (un)convincingly for (i) an alien intelligence; (ii) Krishna; (ii) Allah; (iv) the Lord Brahma and every other god mankind has ever dreamed up.

          No, there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of the Judeo-Christian god.

          August 4, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • ddeevviinn

          " As I understand it"

          And herein lies your fatal flaw.

          August 4, 2014 at 1:46 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          double devlin,
          Not an expert yet "I am more adept and fluent in the biblical languages, higher criticism and textual criticism than yourself". hmmm

          August 4, 2014 at 2:00 pm |
        • ddeevviinn

          Santa

          I played baseball from the time I could walk, all the way up through college. I am very familiar with the nuances of the game and have a good working knowledge of current team and player stats. My wife, on the other hand, understands there is something called a bat, ball and glove, and that's about it. The difference in our knowledge of the game is significant, it doesn't mean I'm MLB material. " Far from it."

          August 5, 2014 at 3:31 am |
    • evolveddna

      Devlin...that is the best you can say ..god came from nowhere..The bible is every thing you claim.. it has no other sources of verification. what did it tell humanity that was not known before?

      August 4, 2014 at 12:27 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        I said it. I did not establish it. And yes, that is the "best I can do" . I have long ago determined that there can exist truth, even though it can not be quantified and verified in a lab.

        August 4, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • igaftr

          " there can exist truth"

          Yes, but to assume that something is truth, when there is no evidence of it being true, and even evidence showing parts are certainly not true, going on the assumption that it is true, is illogical.

          August 4, 2014 at 2:36 pm |
        • evolveddna

          Devlin..how can you determine truth if it cannot be verified..other wise my truth could trump yours. You also said that a creator is" mandatory.".in order for your belief perhaps but not for the universe to exist.. I could say the universe is eternal and came from nowhere.

          August 4, 2014 at 5:43 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          however, physicists, cosmologists and other scientists are pretty much in agreement the universe is not eternal

          August 4, 2014 at 6:41 pm |
      • evolveddna

        Kermit.. i would agree that the universe is not eternal based on the heat death scenerio. how ever this is based on observational evidence and physics. As I has said earlier.." i could say.". not that it is.. You have said that god is eternal and always has been.. based on nothing at all other than wishful thinking and based on one book.. see a difference? if you are interested, as you were complaining earlier that we think we have superior knowledge, you could check out YouTube and look for Professor Brian Cox ..Death of the Universe its a short BBC piece..

        August 4, 2014 at 7:06 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          NO..there is no difference in the knowledge of Christians vs non Christians...as for od being eternal..it sno tbased on wishful thinking and one Book..thats pretty ignorant thing to say.....I use logic...firt fo all.logic would say that for all things to have been created, it has to come fromoutside source (obvious) and that outside source then would be totally different....(eternal vs limited time/beginning) plus also it is taken from our personal experiences we have with God, knowing who He is and what He reveals of Himself to us. so I think youre pretty ignorant to think we get it from one source (wishful thinking excluded)

          August 4, 2014 at 7:24 pm |
        • evolveddna

          Kermit ..You have claimed god came from "no where" with what you have also said you claim all things have to be created.. so go ahead and tell us who created god..Your personal experience is not proof of any being being eternal or even real...How can you be sure that Thor is not eternal?

          August 5, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
      • evolveddna

        Kermit.. i would agree that the universe is not eternal based on the heat death scenerio. how ever this is based on observational evidence and physics. As I has said earlier.." i could say.". not that it is.. You have said that god is eternal and always has been.. based on nothing at all other than wishful thinking and based on one book.. see a difference? if you are interested, as you were complaining earlier that we think we have superior knowledge, you could check out YouTube and look for Professor Brian C ox ..Death of the Universe its a short BBC piece..

        August 4, 2014 at 7:07 pm |
    • igaftr

      "It makes the claim to be the Word of God, I accept that claim"

      Well that certaily seems to be enough for you, but many of us would rather engage our brains when determining the validity of wild outlandish claims, and require at least some evidence.

      You have no evidence, you have a story book. You might as well say you believe the Silmarillian is true because you want it to be. That would carry the same weight, and just shows you CHOSE to believe, since there is nothing to base an informed decision on.

      August 4, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
      • kermit4jc

        I get so sick of your arrogance...we DO engage our brains...IM sick and tired of you making up crap about people like us..you with your "superior" knowledge and all

        August 4, 2014 at 3:01 pm |
    • colin31714

      Devin, yo usaid, "I know this from the writings in the christian narrative known as " the bible". It makes the claim to be the Word of God, I accept that claim. No need to retort with charges of "the bible is myth, full of errors, uncertain authorships yadayadayada". I'll go out on a limb here and guess that I am more adept and fluent in the biblical languages, higher criticism and textual criticism than yourself, so let's not travel down that path."

      Actually, lets go down that path.

      Let's start at the beginning with a very simple question, who wrote Genesis?

      August 4, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        Moses.

        As stated, I'm very comfortable with the higher critical methodology. If you want to engage in that argument I would be more than happy to do so. I don't think we could do it justice in a few trite words. I'm headed out the door ( Monday Chinese Buffet) but I will get back to you some time after 10 pm and leave a reply as to why I accept the authorship of Moses. I know this will be futile, conservative/liberal scholarship has debated this as nauseum, but I will play.

        August 4, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
      • Robert Brown

        moses

        August 4, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
        • igaftr

          That is only one possibility and a matter that is far from settled. The loons at AIG say that Adam himself even wrote some of it, because they like to believe that it is eyewitness accounts, but no one can show that to be true either. Many people were eyewitnesses to Harry Potter playing quidiche too. Since some of the stories in Genesis come from previous cultures, Moses may have written them down, but who can tell who really "wrote" them.

          August 4, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
      • ddeevviinn

        Colin

        I just finished typing a fairly extensive reply to your question of authorship and it was summarily deleted. These filters are extremely frustrating. I will try to post an abbreviated version tomorrow in the event you are still interested.

        August 5, 2014 at 3:23 am |
        • colin31714

          I'm sorry Devin, the same has happened to me.

          August 5, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          devin, Normally you can tell if it didn't post if the refresh does not show your post. If you go back one screen you should then see the text from just before you posted which you can modify if you can see the offending word(s). This works most times but I have sometimes made duplicate posts when the refresh did not show the update when it was in fact there.

          August 5, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • ddeevviinn

          Colin

          Once again, this time short and sweet.

          When considering authorship, it pretty much boils down to internal and external evidence. The biblical narrative in both OT and NT is clear in its acknowledgement of Mosaic authorship for Genesis. Both Testaments make frequent reference to the Law being written and given through Moses.A point of clarification here: The book divisions ( Gene sis, Exodus, Levit icus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) are not found in the Hebrew Bible. The To rah ( Pentateuch) is one cohesive unit in the Masoretic text. So when the bible states numerous times " the Law of Moses" or " the Law written by Moses" it is speaking of the Torah.

          The external evidence is pretty straight forward. There was unanimity among rabbinical tradition and teaching as to Mosaic authorship. The Mishnah and Talmud assume Mosaic authorship as a given. Philo, Josephus, Origen, and virtually every other historian or Church Father up until the late 19th century agreed. Modern day conservative biblical scholarship concurs.

          Let me touch briefly on JEDP theory ( I went to great lengths in my post last night dissecting and critiquing what I consider to be flawed reasoning in the docu mentary hypo thesis. I think it was in that context that I had a "filtered word" so I will make this short). Wellhausen, who borrowed from Graf, who borrowed from Astruc got into theology because he wanted to "apply science" to the biblical text. This is a great irony in that JEDP theory, if anything , is rife with speculation and conjecture (" Moses could not have written the Torah in that writing had not yet been discovered in his era" Oops, archaeological findings now reveal writing had come on the scene long before Moses. " Camels were never domesticated during the time of the patriarchs" Oops, archaeology now disagrees).

          But it is this insistence that there had to be multiple sources because of the varying usage of Elohim and Jehovah, and the usage of Deuteronomy and Priestly laws that has always puzzled me. I remember encountering the docu mentary hypothesis for the first time back in college many years ago. I was initially struck with how easy and random it would be to go to the biblical narrative and isolate certain literary forms to generate any type of theory you would desire. ABCD theory, WXYZ theory, the skies the limit.

          I do apologize for this short treatment, the lack of references, and lack of depth in discussing higher criticism. I've just about reached my limit with long replies that end up getting filtered.

          August 6, 2014 at 1:10 am |
        • ddeevviinn

          Santa

          I really appreciate that tidbit of info. I should have picked up on that, I just assumed the post was "lost" when I hit "post" and nothing showed up.

          Thanks

          August 6, 2014 at 1:17 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          devin,

          You should know to "copy" any text you create before hitting post...it will save you a lot of aggrevation.

          FYI, I read your top 10.

          August 6, 2014 at 1:21 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      He came from nowhere. He is Santa Claus – the self existent one. He is eternal, without beginning or end, a concept while unfathomable to our human minds, nevertheless true.

      I know this from the writings in the christmas narratives. It makes the claim to be true, and I accept that claim. No need to retort with charges of "Santa is a myth, just for kids, yadayadayada". I'll go out on a limb here and guess that I am more adept and fluent in christmas than yourself, so let's not travel down that path.

      August 4, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
      • LaBella

        "He came from nowhere..."
        Now why did I read that and the theme song from "The Good, The Bad, and athe Ugly" start playing in my head?

        August 4, 2014 at 2:27 pm |
  3. 19covenant19

    The Words of Jesus Christ has been proven TRUE

    –Scientifically and Mathematically–

    for all Nations on earth now.

    See it with your own eyes to believe it.

    19covenant19.com
    BIBLICAL EXCELLENT MIRACLES -3-

    August 3, 2014 at 6:33 am |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Thou shalt not steal (one of your commandments that you break every time you steal advertising space)...it is your hell, you enjoy it!

      August 4, 2014 at 6:51 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      go sell your lies somewhere else.

      August 4, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
  4. Reality

    ISLAM, the 21st century stain of koranic-driven terror and horror !!! Details? Watch the news!!!

    August 1, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
  5. zhilla1980wasp

    kermie: you can dance around all you like; namely i believe it's due to your lack of logic that you can't keep up with me.

    omnipotence: he knows everything before you were ever born. thus you praying for something, is pointless. if a child prays (begs) a parent for a toy and that parent has other plans for the money; guess what that child (you) doesn't get it's toy.

    as far as "god" being in another realm; well show me this "spirit realm" so i can become the spirit king. lmao

    you enjoy calling people "idiot" and stamping your foot about how i "don't know you"; i know you very well. i have been on this blog for 4 years and have read all your posts as they corrospond to the subject matter. i have noticed a lot of things about you, and lamely enough your no different than the other blind faith following religious fruit cakes that i meet everyday in my life.
    your past has very little to do with the current information i learn about you. i couldn't care less if you threw aay your logical brain as a child or an adult.
    it truly matters very little in the grand scheme of how you conduct your life. and that is what i learn about you; i learn exactly the things you yourself choose to deny from your responces to this blog. i get to see your inner working mind as you attempt to defend your position which give me a blueprint as to how you not only view problems but also how you priotize a problem and attempt to reach a solution to said problem.
    with the correct ability to view information anyone can disasseble anyone else to truly figure out how they tick. in all truth i just mess with you because i'm bored and i know how to get a rise out of you; in real life i would yawn, pat you on the head like a god little child and walk away laughing.

    "so God cannot "recreate another son at snap of his fingers" so you are admitting that your god is NOT all power. blasphermer. lol

    "it is not incomplete and edited as you imply...."
    i'm not implying, i'm informing that you know nothing of said history of the religion you so vemoniantely follow. if you don't even understand that your book has been edited by those of power throughout history, then you are truly blind. if you believe that men haven't burned down religious buildings and destroyed their "holy teachings" as being heretics, then you are blind.
    if you seriously believ ethat worthless scrap of junk you call "holy text" to be nothing more than a lie created by humans to control weak minded humans such as yourself, then you are not only blind you are dangerous; the same as those crazies i had to fight in mosul.

    August 1, 2014 at 2:33 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      I didn't dance at all..and my logic has sense...as for the praying...praying isn't begging....and it isnot pointless....people get affected by prayerwhether they are answered or not...your examples are really pointless and sniveling...again praying isn't begging...as for the snapping his fingers and recreating..apparently you didn't read me correctly..Jesus was NOT created in first place..He IS Giod....and all this..THAT is why YUOR post is irrelevant and does not add to the argument...it shows ignorance again of the BIble

      August 1, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        Prayer has NEVER been proven to help anyone outside of making the person praying feel good about themselves.
        You made another false claim that god has always been and is eternal...such an arrogant ASS HAT statement to make but coming from you and the amount of times you have lied and shown your delusions, that is not unexpected. You have yet to offer sufficient evidence to support your claims. Time to grow up, more out of Mommy's basement, get an education and learn the difference between FACT and FICTION (you like fiction too much that it has become reality in your small mind).

        August 4, 2014 at 6:55 am |
      • zhilla1980wasp

        kermie: does your god have disasocitive disorder? "..Jesus was NOT created in first place..He IS Giod...."
        i would say the previous statement is a clear indication of those symptoms.
        a person with more than one personality, can be quite dangerous; however i think your god has a four personality.......lucifer.

        logically it would make sense seeing all the blood shed and global carnage he spread upon the world; but he loves us. lmao

        August 4, 2014 at 7:09 am |
        • kermit4jc

          NOt at all...because God is nOT one person in first place..God is three persons..one God....psychology would say that of ONE person having multiple personalities...that dont work in this case...

          August 4, 2014 at 9:39 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: "because God is nOT one person in first place..God is three persons..one God."

          "because JOHN is not one person in the first place.....JOHN is three persons....one JOHN."

          see how that works? a personality is who you are; having more than one of thse inside one body, implies "disasociation disorder"
          better known as multiple personality disorder.

          one god = three persons= multiple personality disorder.

          now how to correct this whole problem would be to add an (s) at the end of god, making it plural instead of making the poor guy sound insane.

          August 4, 2014 at 11:39 am |
        • kermit4jc

          YOUR anaology don't work...JOHN is a HUMAN..not God..and God is nOT an INDIVIDUAL..He is manifest into three distinct individual PERSONS..sorry..but yure not thinking thouroughly..this is nOT three personalities in one body as YOU say...so again you are pretty ignorant

          August 4, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          to correct this problem is for YOu to get an education what it means one God equals three persons...God is NOT a WHo..God is a WHAT....with Three WHOS...so again youre not thinking

          August 4, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie:

          -smh- fine kermie you're right and the rest of the world knows absolutely nothing compared to the huge amounts of personal knowledge you share daily with your "god" with three personalities.

          enjoy your delusion kermie, i know i enjoy laughing at you. -smiley face-

          August 5, 2014 at 7:23 am |
        • kermit4jc

          Im not the only one....many Christians know this as well.....and its nt neccesarily "huge amounts of personal knowledge...its a simple thing..all one has to do is actually read up on it and all

          August 5, 2014 at 9:32 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: "its a simple thing..all one has to do is actually read up on it and all."

          ummmm kermie, why do you think i stopped believeing in the first place............i read the whole fracking bible.
          IMO, your "sky father" is more hateful and bigoted than your devil.

          "thou shalt not kill; wipe out that whole village except the virgin women." lol sure that makes sense.

          August 5, 2014 at 10:07 am |
        • kermit4jc

          your words show me you my have read it..but younever went to understand it...the text had been clear about God and how He is manifest in three persons....and you wanna cherry pick? no wonder you disbelieve...you do it based on your flawed and ignorant perception of god (it shows very clearlty in your words)

          August 5, 2014 at 3:29 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: "...you do it based on your flawed and ignorant perception of god (it shows very clearlty in your words)"

          LMFAO: thanks i needed that.

          ok let me get this right? you believe in invisible friends............and i'm the ignorant one?

          didn't anyone ever teach you that when you become a big person all your make believe friends are suppose to go "bye-bye"; otherwise other adults may percieve you as being "touched" in the head?
          now run along and play with your friends that only you can and always agree with what you want.

          August 6, 2014 at 7:40 am |
        • kermit4jc

          hey..you brought this up....and now you dont got an answer?

          August 6, 2014 at 9:37 am |
    • kermit4jc

      “it is not incomplete and edited as you imply….”
      i’m not implying, i’m informing that you know nothing of said history of the religion you so vemoniantely follow. if you don’t even understand that your book has been edited by those of power throughout history, then you are truly blind. if you believe that men haven’t burned down religious buildings and destroyed their “holy teachings” as being heretics, then you are blind.
      if you seriously believ ethat worthless scrap of junk you call “holy text” to be nothing more than a lie created by humans to control weak minded humans such as yourself, then you are not only blind you are dangerous; the same as those crazies i had to fight in mosul.<-that is a pretty weak and incomplete argument....first of all...I know about the "editing": but nOTHNING has changed! what YOU don't understand and where I think YOU are attempting to come from is how people INTERPRET and APPLY it...that's not editing my friend....again what we hav is virtually same as what they had..I understand more of the history of the Bible than you do

      August 1, 2014 at 5:46 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        No kermi, you're being an ASS! Who are you to say what a person knows when you yourself have nothing to back your claims?? Your Holier Than Thou portrayal of yourself is not something your imaginary friend would appreciate. Stop judging people and stop pretending you are better when you hate and wish to deny equal rights by using your belief system against people. You're not a good person and if anyone deserves hell, it is you and your ilk!

        August 4, 2014 at 7:02 am |
      • zhilla1980wasp

        kermie: how to prove your ignorance in a simple sentence. "....first of all...I know about the "editing": but nOTHNING has changed! "

        editing genious means something changed. a lot changed accually, from then editing out lilith adam's first wife; they edited out over 600 commandments (seeing your old testement was originally the jewish torah), they added in the insane ravings of a mad man (aka: revelations)

        so yes things did change in your "holy book" of mistakes. deny all you like....."....first of all...I know about the "editing": but nOTHNING has changed!"
        your own words sealed your case. lmao

        August 4, 2014 at 7:05 am |
        • kermit4jc

          Thereis NOI proof lillith was even in the originals!!!!! As for the 600 commandments...are you referring to the over 600 commandments that Jews follow? If so.that wa snMOT of the Jewish Canon as well (the OT) that was from another..I believe it was the Talmud) so nothing virtually changed..sorry dude...you got nothing

          August 4, 2014 at 9:37 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          i have everything kermie. i have your feathers ruffled because you didn't even address the fact that "editing" means changed. lol
          you instead sit there using caps lock as if you're yelling, just to attempt to over rid the person that is making you upset.

          you have your "belief/faith" in something no different than any other mythology abandoned throughout history.
          you can kick sceam and hollar all you want; yet there isn't anything you can do to change the fact that more and more pople are moving away from you petty little "fear me" god and out into the light of knowledge.

          enjoy your stay on earth, i will trust the new few generations to lead this world into peace and enlightenment in the future.

          August 4, 2014 at 9:46 am |
        • kermit4jc

          and there will NEVER be peace and enlightenment on earth...why? cause we are HUMANS....religions are not the problem...its people

          August 4, 2014 at 2:57 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Or course religions are a problem, kermit. Don't you watch the damned news?

          August 4, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          yes, I do watch it..but religions in of themselves don't cayse the problems..its PEOPLE...religions are a TOOL that people use....I see you don't want to take accountability for your actions...you wanna blame any tooll that you use (lies, hate, guns)

          August 4, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Religions are created by humans. Religions are used to form the opinions of groups. Religions are at the heart of thousands of conflicts. It"s written all over history. You have simply chosen to blind yourself to it.

          August 4, 2014 at 3:13 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          not at all..I acknbolwegde that USE of religion becomes a problem...YOu are theone blaming a tool rather than a person..yes..religions are created by humans..but the people use religions to justify hate etc etc...so again stop shifting the blame

          August 4, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
        • LaBella

          Religion is the tool they're using, Kermit. Right or wrong, that is the reality of it.

          August 4, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          agreed.....

          August 4, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie:

          YAY! for kermie; one more step of logic and you will understand.
          "a tool rather than a person..yes..religions are created by humans..but the people use religions to justify hate etc etc...so again stop shifting the blame"

          ok so if humans created religion.......then? come on you can do take that last step.........they created gods. see isn't that simple.

          here is the thing; how do we hold those accountible for "practicing" what their man made religion tells them to do?
          wouldn't that be persecution?
          wouldn't telling other religions how they are doing things wrong, be restricting their religious freedoms?

          August 5, 2014 at 7:36 am |
        • kermit4jc

          again it is a tol....people choose to liten to the religions...religions dont make anyone do anything against their will...they choose to do so

          August 5, 2014 at 9:34 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: how did you learn about god?

          A) you openned your eyes one mourning and the idea of an all powerful, loving, all-knowing diety just popped into your head?

          B) you read a religious text that placed an image of "god" into your mind; then you accepted that image of your "god"?

          religious people read from relgious text and use said various "interrptations" of said religious text to further their goals.

          CONCLUSION:
          without religious text; there would be no religion; thus no need for humans to argue over who's god has a bigger wong.
          30,000 + sects so far.........and all think they have the answer.

          August 5, 2014 at 10:13 am |
        • kermit4jc

          Are yuo telling me there are only TWO options????

          August 5, 2014 at 3:26 pm |
        • G to the T

          "Are yuo telling me there are only TWO options????"

          Well – I cannot imagine a scenario where someone would become a Christian with no prior exposure to the belief or it's tenants.

          August 5, 2014 at 3:30 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          OF course you dont...you dont believe in God in first place. There are other options...god revealing Himself to people...I came to know ABOUT God through means of others and the Bible..sure, but THAT did nOT convince me. I came to know OF god PERSONALLY thru God Himself....thats how we ALL come to know someone personally...if I read a book of Barak Obama and all about his life, i dont know him personally..I may know ABOUT Obama, but I dont know him personally...same with God..NO man or book convinced me of Gods presence...God convinced me of it..i got to know him....which incidentally, is why no man will convince me otherwise-any man who presumes to do so is arrogant. We can know someone personally as well and know who they truly are..by spending time with them....I do same thing..I been Christian 27 years this month anmd I know God very well, to know whom I experience in my life

          August 5, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
        • G to the T

          Kerm – maybe we are talking past each other but if you can find a single example of a person who had NO previous exposure to Christianity that became a Christian – I'd be willing to take a look – because that really would be miraculous.

          I could see being a deist of some kind, but to specifically be a Christian, I cannot think of scenario where one would become a Christian without some previous exposure to the religion and it's tenants.

          August 5, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          listen..I pretty much made it clear....so ok..i had past exposure to God..thru the Bible and other people...that does not disprove I know God personally any more than if I read a book about Barak Obama and then meet him and got to know him personally

          August 5, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          kermit
          "i had past exposure to God"

          Can you post the selfie?

          August 5, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
      • G to the T

        "listen..I pretty much made it clear....so ok..i had past exposure to God..thru the Bible and other people...that does not disprove I know God personally any more than if I read a book about Barak Obama and then meet him and got to know him personally"

        Wasn't saying you didn't. The original question was about 2 options (previous exposure or not) and you said "only 2 options?" I said that sounded right and why. You have since confirmed that you had previous exposure. That's it – no leading or anything like that – was just trying to clarify.

        August 5, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          ok..and yes....as I relflected back on your post...I been thinking it wasnt too leading....since it did not address knowing God personally

          August 5, 2014 at 3:53 pm |
        • G to the T

          No harm, no foul... take care.

          August 5, 2014 at 4:06 pm |
  6. monica7c

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU9MbXueRFg&w=640&h=360]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU9MbXueRFg

    August 1, 2014 at 7:24 am |
    • tallulah131

      Looks like the spam-bot is still trying. You gotta wonder why.

      August 4, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
  7. bostontola

    I don't see any good guys in this conflict. The Israelis are taking advantage of Hamas weakness to weaken them further at the cost of children's lives. The Palestinians are so fractured that negotiation is useless. The West Bank has different positions than Gaza. The military wing of Hamas has different positions than the political wing. The loss of innocent children is tragic. It is interesting that when this happens on larger scales in Syria, Iraq, Sudan, etc. it gets a fraction of the coverage.

    July 29, 2014 at 5:44 pm |
    • kenmargo

      You'll hear more about this because of our support of Israel. We don't give a rat's rump about Syria, Sudan etc...
      I read an article in which a reporter in Lebanon said he wished Iran would give Hamas a nuclear weapon. Believe it or not I think Israel wishes the same thing. Israel could nuke Gaza into oblivion and this would be over.

      July 29, 2014 at 6:45 pm |
    • igaftr

      boston
      Check out Frontline...they had one piece on the other day that had two strories out of Syria.
      One story (The Second Front I think it was called) , they were following a muslim faction that were fighting against the regime, but their biggest concern was ISIS. The people that live there know that ISIS is far worse than the regime. ISIS had ties with Al Qaeda, but AL Qaeda cut ties to ISIS for being too radical. The story followed as they attacked an ISIS held town, a key strategic location. They fought and forced ISIS to retreat. The next day, the regime started bombing the area, because the "rebels" were now in charge there. The regime didn't seem to mind ISIS in control.It'll give you a much better idea of the real issues in Syria, and how ISIS is seen by the people.

      The second story was from the point of view of the children. You'll have to see it to believe it.

      July 31, 2014 at 8:49 am |
  8. Dyslexic doG

    I get a headache reading these same conversations day after day. We could present any logic and any information but it comes down to the fact that the likes of Theo and Fred and Newman just don't want to admit they are wrong. I could take them back in time and show them that the jesus character was just a man and that any of the miracles were made up stories by writers 40 or 50 or 60 years later and that the resurrection never happened. I could take them back to Moses and show them that was all made up stories too. I could take them back to the singularity and show them that a god had no part in it. And do you know what ... the Theos and Freds and Newmans and Taliban and IRA and Jim Jones and David Koresh and other cult members in the world would still find some asinine, nonsensical, pathetic way to explain it all away so that they wouldn't have to admit they were wrong. I need some aspirin.

    July 29, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
    • kermit4jc

      you would show your ignorance. The Gospels were written within 20 yeas of Jesus...not 40 o 60.....I mean come on...I that's the case..can you explain to me the interesting dilemma of how some of the early church fathers quote from Scripture things that did not exist??? Give me a break..as fo resurrection..YOu cant even account for the missing body from the tomb..and no one knows where it is! Given the severity of incident, this was no "just another rebel executed" As fr what the world thinks...SCREW it.so what if they think we are asnine..I do not live my life depend on what the world thinks

      July 29, 2014 at 6:42 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        No scholar claims the gospels were written within 20 years of Jesus' death, (that is if Jesus even existed). Paul wrote in the 50's and 60's and never once quotes one of them, or references one of them. We know Mark wrote after the temple was destroyed, and that it was the earliest gospel.

        Sorry Kermy. Maybe someday you'll actually take a class in your cult's literature.

        July 29, 2014 at 8:10 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          NO scholar? then you are truly ignorant!!!!! ANd I suggest you actually look up stuff

          July 30, 2014 at 4:30 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          Kermit4jc,
          Are there scholars that claim that *all* the gospels were written within 20 years of the crucifixion, ie all finished before the mid 50's?

          July 30, 2014 at 5:04 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          At least one of them was written within 20 years...I believe it was the Book of John, because a fragment of a copy of it was found in Egypt to be dated by about 68 AD and one has to think that copies are hard to come by (no copy machines, internet, etc) and that it would have taken quite some time for it to reach Egypt...others would have been about the same time as well, since none of them mentions the fall of the Temple or alludes to it (which happened in 70 AD) etc etc....(for more info and exact dating read Brian H Edwards "Why 27?")

          July 30, 2014 at 5:14 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Plus again we have the earliest church fathers quoting from the Gospels (again read Bran H Edwards) thus the argument one cannot quote from something that does not yet exist.

          July 30, 2014 at 5:15 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          I think your claim was "The Gospels were written within 20 yea[r]s of Jesus..."

          July 30, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          then I may have reworded it....it would have been about 20 years after Christ....give or take a few years..the latest would have been written by about 60 AD (27 years after Christ). plus..the fact if Pauls writings were earlier (1 Corithians stands out..written by about 54 AD maybe even earlier) and already he, in chapter 15 echoes the creed of the Christians who say that Jesus was crucified,buried, and resurrected, and he states a number of people seen him after his resurrection..some of who were still alive so if needed they can check with the witnesses.

          July 30, 2014 at 5:34 pm |
        • Bob

          People can go on all day arguing about the details of the many versions and translations of the bible, that Christian book of nasty vengeance, but it is more helpful to look at the big picture. Why is it that the pathetic Christian sky creature, their "god", a purportedly omnipotent creature, can't do better than a book to get its message out, especially one for which the words can be so readily "twisted". Where is god's website (and no, religious shill sites don't count), and why can't he even push a few tweets out? Furthermore, 2000+ years without a peep from him is more than sufficient grounds for doubt, to say the least.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          July 30, 2014 at 5:28 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          sorry..this is pitiful, playing blame game..God is omnipotent and all..yes..but he is nOT a puppet master....people use their own minds and agendas....man can twist ANYTHING..I find it sad you will place blame on others instead of where it belongs-on humans...God does not mess with free will

          July 30, 2014 at 5:36 pm |
        • Bob

          No, it is your own sky fairy god, according to your doctrine, that would be ultimately at fault, having created us with flaws such as you state, and with such a flawed, violent doctrine as these choice quotes from your Christian book of nasty show. From both foul testaments:

          Numbers 31:17-18
          17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
          18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

          Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

          1 Timothy 2:11
          "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."

          Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

          Leviticus 25
          44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
          45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
          46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

          Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

          Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

          And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

          So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          July 30, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: your "god" would have no choice but to interfer with "free will"..................he has a plan correct?

          if your free will contridicts his plans do you really think he would let you?

          example:
          you want to buy a new car, something to show off to your christian buddies.
          god doesn't want you to buy a new car, it isn't part of his plan. his plan is for you to buy a tricycle.

          who is more powerful? you or your god?

          example 2:

          you are told you have a curible form of cancer.
          god's plan for you is to die from that cancer so you can "come home."

          do you think god would allow the doctors to cure you?

          who is more poweful the doctors or your god?

          i doubt you will understand the direction of this exercise because you have on your blinders and enjoy running into that wall. well enjoy.

          July 31, 2014 at 7:31 am |
        • kermit4jc

          sorry..your examples are shown to be ignorance of free will..God knows whats going to happen...and just cause doctors say they have a cure..they are NOT God (BTW even if it is cured..we STILL DIE! HELLO!) PEOPLE don't determine when we die...GOD does...sure some can say "I am going to murder that guy." and yes..they do die.but not all...GOD knows the way we will go..no one else does..even those doctors who have the cure for concer......and again...Gods knowledge of all does not intervene with my free will...yo uare looking at it from the wrong perspective..since God is not of THIS realm that YOU AND I live in...(which is the perspective you see it from-and it is wrong)

          August 1, 2014 at 2:05 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: feel free to make any excuse you like that helps you sleep better at night.

          if your god has a "plan" for you, then you have no choice but to do as he saids.

          if your god wishes to "allow" the devil to inflict pain and suffering upon you, then just like job; there isn't anything you can do to stop it.

          free will implies no plan; no set destination. yes we all die, that is the natural order of things.
          a godly "plan" has a set destination for you. he dictates how and when you die.

          regardless of the facts, you will always follow your blind faith right off a cliff. whatever enjoy. thankfully your breed is dying off.

          August 1, 2014 at 7:41 am |
        • kermit4jc

          im not the one making excuses.youre the one purposefully..and quite frankly being dishonest here with ignoring all info about God....God knows what I will do cause he knows the CHOICES I will make...you will ignore that you are looking at it from a wordly perspective from this realm..of which God is not of....you would not even address that issue and again thats dishonesty on your part..

          August 1, 2014 at 9:55 am |
        • James XCIX

          kermit – "God knows what I will do cause he knows the CHOICES I will make"

          That sounds quite different from the idea that your god has a plan for everything.

          August 1, 2014 at 10:02 am |
        • kermit4jc

          hellooooo..the plans includes the choices I will make..duuuh...He makes plans acording to the choices....

          August 1, 2014 at 10:06 am |
        • James XCIX

          No need to be rude, is there? And I suppose that he already knows in advance what people will pray for and makes his plan according to those prayers, too?

          August 1, 2014 at 10:11 am |
        • kermit4jc

          it goes for everything..what we say, do or pray or think....does prayer change Gods mind? I don't think so...does it change us..certainly....

          August 1, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • James XCIX

          Kermit – So, let me check if I understand your position correctly: Your god knows absolutely everything, including what choices people will make and what they will ask for in prayers, and he made his unalterable plan taking all that into account... correct?

          August 1, 2014 at 5:12 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          pretty much

          August 1, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          "you will ignore that you are looking at it from a wordly perspective from this realm.."

          And exactly how do you look at from an unworldy perspective from another realm...?

          August 1, 2014 at 10:07 am |
        • kermit4jc

          What IM saying is this, God is not of this realm..therefore the argument that his foreknowledge o what we do, say or think does not interferere with our free will...IF He were of THIS realm that WE live in...then it would seem to be the case

          August 1, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: " ignoring all info about God...."

          1) what information about god? are you refering to your incomplete book of lost, mistranslated and edited scripture?

          "wordly perspective from this realm.."

          2) what "realm" are you seeing things? as far as i'm aware this is the only realm any human can percieve. so unless you have some super power we mere humans lack, you are lieing.

          August 1, 2014 at 10:12 am |
        • kermit4jc

          it is not incomplete and edited as you imply....again that s ignorance on your part...and other factors that you do not include which I have mentioned before are Justice, Love, the fact God cannot change, all knowing, etc etc...you are ignoring all those and honing in on one attribute (omnipotence) as if that was Gods only attribute...plus you base it on feelings rather than Gods nature

          August 1, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          for the real..I don't know much of it..but it isbvious Godis not of this realm..since He CREATED this ream we live in....I never claimed to have said I know ABOUT and understand it..I just acknowledge there is another realm..the Spiritual realm...and since God ius not OF this realm you and I live in...then logically his foreknowledge of all we do, say or think does not interfere with our free will

          August 1, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        BTW, the "early church fathers" accused each other of lying and deception, and wrote about how it was good to use for their benefit. And they admitted it.

        July 29, 2014 at 8:12 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          HARDLY! They did ont accuse others of misquoting or such..again that is not the point..they QUOTED Scriptures...and if the Scriptures did not exist..HOW do they quote it? answer the question..thanks

          July 30, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • Bob

          kermi, they weren't quoting. They were making all the bible up as they went, just like for all the other god stories that humans have made for themselves. Looking at your own god story, your whole Jesus-sacrifice thing is a steaming pile of bull-do. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          August 1, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • kermit4jc

          schoalrs disagree with you! The early church father DID quote..in fact...scholars say that we have so many quotations from Scriptures (especially of NT) that if we had NO other source (fragments, copies, etc) we could reconstruct the WHOLE of NT save for 11 verses! YOU are apparently in ignorance of what the church fathers write

          August 1, 2014 at 1:38 pm |
      • Bob

        kermit, looking at the bigger picture, why is it that your pathetic sky creature, your "god", a purportedly omnipotent creature, can't do better than a book to get its message out, especially one for which the words can be so readily "twisted". Where is your god's website (and no, religious shill sites don't count), and why can't he even push a few tweets out? Furthermore, 2000+ years without a peep from him is more than sufficient grounds for doubt, to say the least.

        Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there.

        Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
        Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
        http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

        July 30, 2014 at 8:33 am |
        • kermit4jc

          pretty pathetic of you..sorry..God did a great job..the problem isn't God..its stupid people like you who don't have the sense to actually use their brains...you are too damn lazy to connect the dots and read/study things for yourself. People are the pathetic ones

          July 30, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
        • Bob

          Kermit, according to your own doctrine, your god actually would be fully to blame, having created us with such flaws. Read your own nasty storybook AKA the bible, which also has such fine explicit guidance for you as the following, from both foul testaments:

          Numbers 31:17-18
          17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
          18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

          Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

          1 Timothy 2:11
          "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."

          Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

          Leviticus 25
          44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
          45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
          46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

          Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

          Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

          And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

          So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          July 30, 2014 at 5:53 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          I disagree with you cause you cherry pick..first of all.....There is NO Temple to sacrifice at! Second..JESUS is the ULTIMATE sacrifice..God made it VERY clear this was not the end means! IM sorry.but you don't know the BIbkle...you only skim it and read PARTS of it...that much is clear.....I do NOT sacrifice animals today cause JESUS sacrifice paid it ONCE and FOR ALL...PERIOD.....and you still didn't explain about GOD being to blame......YOu are to blame for you reading only parts of it and making it say what YOu want it to say rather than what the writers intended..that has NO blame on God.....He does NOT control your mind like a puppet master or a robot....He DID make it clear..YOU just idnt get it....nice try..no cigar

          July 30, 2014 at 7:01 pm |
        • Bob

          No, Kermit. First, I have addressed your picking issues in my comment already. Furthermore, regarding your sacrifice story, it is the foundation of your whole supersti.tion and it is complete nonsense.The entire Jesus-sacrifice thing is a steaming pile of bull-do. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers?

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          July 30, 2014 at 9:06 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Ive explained to you before..but you will never get it siunce you keep thinking God bases all this on feelings..and ou ignore the rest of Gods attributes..thats actually dishonest of you to do so. If you truly want to know..then look into the other attributes given to you..first of all..God is a JUST God..not because he FEELS like being just..but because it is His very nature and He can NOT change that..being omnipotent does NOT give "power" to change oneself...its a contradiction

          August 1, 2014 at 1:57 am |
        • Bob

          No, little kermi, actually, you have not previously, nor here again, provided any valid explanations for your disgusting delusion. You have only dodged and dodged and dodged the questions asked of you. In this case, I referred specifically to instructions purportedly from your nasty, vengeant ass hole in the sky that are plainly stated in your horrid myth book, and you clearly have no valid rebuttal to that. You just dodge and dodge. Again, look at the quotes, and read the following text. Take a closer and honestly critical look at your own crazy doctrine.

          Numbers 31:17-18
          17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
          18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

          Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

          1 Timothy 2:11
          "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."

          Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

          Leviticus 25
          44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
          45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
          46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

          Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

          Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

          And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

          So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          August 1, 2014 at 10:13 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I did not dodge..I answered most of your question..some are irrelevant to the current issue....you wanna start a new one..by all means do so....I don't use the strategy your use of sidetracking people

          August 1, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
      • igaftr

        ".YOu cant even account for the missing body from the tomb.."

        And you can't show there ever was a body in the tomb. You can't show that Jesus was ever resurrected, and an empty tomb is not evidence of anything.

        July 30, 2014 at 10:03 am |
        • Doris

          A tomb's no special tomb...
          Even when there's nothin' there but gloom...
          But a tomb is not a house,
          And a house is not a home,
          When strangers can enter... and strangers can go..
          And no one here.. would evennn know.....
          &#9836

          July 30, 2014 at 10:59 am |
        • Doris

          oops – forgot the trailing semi-colon for that musical note thingy..lol

          July 30, 2014 at 11:02 am |
        • kermit4jc

          OMG you are dense and don't know how to collect evidence.....you seemed to read part of the story....and by your skepticism..I am sure you don't even think ANY ancient writing is true....Alexander the Great did not exist, etc etc.....you are clearly hypocritical when it comes to history...it was not merely the empty tomb...but the appearances of Jesus by toehrs (and don't compare to Elvis cause they can see that elvis is still in his grave by digging it up) They could have done SAME ting with Jesus body at the time...but NOONE took them to show them Jesus was dead..NO ONE...your logic is pitiful and lacking

          July 30, 2014 at 4:43 pm |
        • Bob

          Too funny, kermi calling someone else "dense". Doris is much, much smarter than you are, kermi.

          July 30, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          NO..DOris does not know much of the BIble.....and so what she is smarter than me in some ways? IM smarter than you in certain ways..youre smarter than me in certain ways..so what?

          July 30, 2014 at 7:02 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          kermit
          "you ... don't know how to collect evidence"

          Where is the evidence to support the content of the scriptures?

          July 30, 2014 at 6:18 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          you wanna play that game then? go ahead and dismiss ALL of ancient writings...IM glad historians don't use yoru method

          July 30, 2014 at 7:04 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          There's no evidence of creation as described, talking snakes, woman into salt, global flood, man in fish for 3 days, men living to 900 years, man turning water into wine, man walking on water, etc. etc.

          July 30, 2014 at 9:18 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          The accoutns say it His body was placed in the tomb..iand NO ONE has EVER denied this!...if YOU want to go this route then youre being very dishonest and two faced in your ways of accepting ancient writings......make up your mind....

          August 1, 2014 at 1:59 am |
        • Bob

          kermi, what we deny is that your Jesus was a divine entity, and that he arose after his death. You have no evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, the whole Jesus-sacrifice thing, the foundation of your delusions, is a steaming pile of bull-do out of the gate. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          August 1, 2014 at 10:16 am |
        • kermit4jc

          first of all..Jesus was not created..so God cannot "recreate another son at snap of his fingers" and again we have accounts of Jesus given by eyewitnesses... no one has shown them not to be eyewitnesses accounts

          August 1, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • G to the T

          "IM glad historians don't use yoru method"

          What historians use is probability. You are looking for the most probable scenario that fits the data available. Miraculous events, by definition, are extremely low probability events.

          August 1, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things are held together. 18 He is the head of the body, the assembly, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him; 20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross. – Colossians 1:15-20

          August 1, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
      • zhilla1980wasp

        kermie: you are missing one major important fact in your idea of the "purity" of your religious text.

        the missing fact is the bible you cuddle up to at night isn't the bible that was written 2000 (+) years ago.

        your missing piece of data is how many years passed by from jesus dying and the cannon that finally chose which "books" are god inspired and worth being cannonized?

        HINT: 300 years. are you telling me books weren't lost, edited, misplaced in 300 years?
        (if you say yes, i know you are lying.)

        July 30, 2014 at 10:18 am |
        • kermit4jc

          we do NOThave originals of ANY ancient writings..so you dmiss all ancient history as well? The BIble we have today IS the same as 2000 years ago....PLUS>.it has better roecord than anyother ancient writings...we have only a FEW COPIES of Homer's writings..and dated to more than 500 years AFTER the originals...yet no one doubts Homer.....and that's ONE example...as for the BIble..we have fragments and copies dating to just 10 years AFTER the originals..and we have tens of thousands oi example! Looks much better than Homer....anyone who accepts Homer, yet rejects the BIble is a hypocrite and dishonest and surely has an agenda

          July 30, 2014 at 4:36 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          btw do you know HOW the books were chocen to be part of canon and when? (hint, if you say any of the councils in the 300s then you surely are ignorant of the history) another hint..there is a list of Books dated from 150 AD that contains 23 or 24 of the books of the NT accepted as canon....so try again (heres where you can get some info read Brian H Edwards "Why 27?")

          July 30, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          Kermit4jc,
          Yes, I would dismiss all ancient writings as being 100% accurate or "inerrent".

          July 30, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
        • LaBella

          So what year does Edwards say they became canon, kermit4jc?

          July 30, 2014 at 6:25 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          It "Officially" becomes canon in the 300s....but before then, it was ALREADY considered canon widely by the church...the councils in the 300s only reconfirmed what was already accepted.. as I said before...by 150 AD aolmost all the NT books were already considered canon by the church.

          July 30, 2014 at 7:06 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          also,Paul and Peter refer to each others' writings as Scripture..and this was before 100 AD

          July 30, 2014 at 7:07 pm |
        • otoh2

          kermit,

          Joseph Smith said his writings were scripture too - and the Mormons have the ORIGINALS of what he said the 'angel of god' said to him! Must mean it's true, eh?

          July 30, 2014 at 7:13 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          Nope..that wasn't the point....and besides...the "Sciptures" of JOe are extremely suspect as he did NOT have any eyewitnesses to his translating the Golden Plates......oh..there were eyewitnesses to the plates...but the signed affidavits mean crap....they didn't see him translate..he had to have a blanket between him and the person writing down what he "translated" plus, the "Scriptures" were on golden plates which could not be verified as to when they were done, etc etc etc...

          July 30, 2014 at 7:27 pm |
        • kermit4jc

          basically youre comparing apples to oranges..and that no one can date these..whereas the fragments and copies can be dated

          July 30, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie, kermie kermie: -shakes head- you just never learn. lol

          now where in my post did i reject your bible? obviously it was written because i can find all sorts of old scrolls and parchments that say yes it was written.

          my point was you are blindly following a book because you are told it is 100% fact.
          here is the thing; it isn't 100% anything, it has been edited. don't believe me look up two videos "banned from the bible 1 & 2"
          parts were lost before the cannon; dead sea scrolls, etc etc etc.
          the cannon took place; meaning the final assembly of what the roman empire wanted in "their bible". mind you before and during this time period you had literally hundreds of groups of jewish/christian ki11ing each other over who was following the correct scripture.

          the cannon was meant to put to rest, what would be "holy scripture" and what wouldn't be; along with cementing the blossoming roman catholic power.

          the original bible wasn't even going to have "revelations" in it because they thought the guy who wrote it was delusional. one man fought against the rest of the clergy in that room to get revelations added to the "holy scriptures".

          ask yourself this; what benefit would the church gain by placing something meant to be so terrifying into it's scriptures?
          FEAR. the great human motivator. if you put fear into a human, especially of eternal pain they will do anything to avoid enduring that kind of punishment. as animals we naturally steer clear of things that cause us pain, our bodies reward us for doing just that.
          (endorphines)

          revelations was meant to scare people like you; the same as how old russian culture use to use the babayaga to scare children into doing the right thing. fear works wonders when used correctly.

          July 31, 2014 at 7:22 am |
        • kermit4jc

          and you are a big fat l;iar...I do not accept it cause of that..I STUDIED it..I looked into it...yo uare just an idiot who like to lie about others......you do not know me and if you been even following my posts youd see I do no tblindly accept this....

          August 1, 2014 at 2:00 am |
        • kermit4jc

          the ay..I was never "scared into this" especially by Revelations..again you are an idiot who assumes too much of people and lie ..like you lied about me......are you a free thinker? if so...youre showing no free thinking at all..just making up stuff and assuming..thats not free thinker..Id thought that freethinkers at least ask questions..its obvious you have NOT asked ME any questions as to how I came to be a Christian and all....sad...so sad

          August 1, 2014 at 2:02 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: i do not "guess" or whatever, i extrapilate a conclusion based off of relavant and present data.

          you blindly follow your bible. the natural fear of pain, which all animals fear, is displayed as a deterent from following other paths.

          you lack the ability to understand that the book you hold to comfort yourself at night, is the work of fiction gathered together of hundreds of years that has been editied and controlled by those that were in power.
          seriously what power do you think an ignorant, illiterate farmer would have over an educated priest?
          how would that farmer be able to tell the priest he is lying if that farmer couldn't even read the words before him?

          answer the farmer couldn't. the farmer would have to "take it on faith" thatwhat he was being told was the truth.........which most of the time wasn't true.

          you may enjoy calling me an "idiot" however i'm exactly certain that my IQ far exceeds your own. so thanks for the laugh.

          let's not even get to the part about how displaying emotion, implies that i struck a cord that was a bit too close to home for you. i love when i see that happen. so please get angry and shout. it only proves that what i'm saying is true and you have fear of the truth.

          thankfully you and your ilk are on the way out; your religion is having to bend so much to keep money in their pockets that eventually it will break and disappear as dust on the wind. enjoy your time here on earth.......nothing follows.

          August 1, 2014 at 7:50 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I do nto lack that ability....you are the one who has that problem.....the Bible we have today is virtually same Bible of 2000 years ago9...of course the LANGUAGE changed...but the theology and such did not....you are readinbg to omuch Bart Ehrman and not understanding where he comes from..for example....do you really believe all the cariants change the Bible in a totoally different way? if so, then yo truly are blindly following Bart..for example..the majority of variants are "Jesus said..." canged to "He said..." wich does NOT change the story one bit! I know the history of how the Bible was put together better than you....I know that for FACT the Scriptures (canon) was ALREADY accepted widely by the church LONG before the counils in the 300s..as for the illiterate farmer and priest....thats irrelevant...for one can still be a genius even if he cant read! I can read the Bible..thank you...and your IQ means crap unles you know HOW to use your mind and widom..there is more to it than how much you know..but how do you apply it? I have shown that it is apparent you are not as knowledgeable of the Bible as youd like to think...

          August 1, 2014 at 10:01 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I have no fear of truth..cause you got none......you are implying about my anger out of your arrogance...to you there is ONLY ONE option to anything..so you ONLY ASSUME that IM amgry and fear the truth...when in fact there are other options...but you as a "feeethinker" dont really think that freely

          August 1, 2014 at 10:02 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: "its obvious you have NOT asked ME any questions as to how I came to be a Christian and all."

          and why would i care "why" you became a christian. to me that fact is pointless, the fun part is that you are a christian.....not very christ like, but christian none the less.

          if you switched off your logical mind in favor of the comfort of the emotional mind, then that is your choice; however i just enjoy picking people's minds to see what lays beneth the pretty words they spout.

          most of the time i find the old saying true......"the empty can rattles the most." lmao

          August 1, 2014 at 7:55 am |
        • kermit4jc

          i just enjoy picking people’s minds to see what lays beneth the pretty words they spout.<–you have yet to do this since you never botgher to ask more about me..how can you be picking when you make assumption and not bother to ask?

          August 1, 2014 at 10:05 am |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          kermie: "you have yet to do this since you never botgher to ask more about me.."

          i don't have to ask you anymore; you tell me everything i require to build a model of the workings of your mind right here on this site.
          various meinal information about your life means absolutely diddly.

          August 1, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I have NOT told you how I came to Christ, that is obvious cause you are ignorant of that fact and made an arrogant lie about me....also...if you wanna pick at other's minds, you got to ask, not assume all the time....

          August 1, 2014 at 1:39 pm |
        • Bob

          kermi, you mainly just dodge questions about your god myth, but the reality is that the whole Jesus-sacrifice thing, the foundation of your Christian supersti.tions, is a steaming pile of bull-do. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers? Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there.

          Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
          Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
          http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

          August 1, 2014 at 10:22 am |
        • kermit4jc

          I havenot dodged at all..youre poor at reading, or you are a dishonest person....I gave you things that you seem to refuse to acknowledge that also play into this....how in the world does that implicate dodging? it boggles my mind to see you write that

          August 1, 2014 at 1:41 pm |
        • LaBella

          Then what zhilla's OP said concerning when it became canon is correct.

          August 1, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
  9. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    RIP – E Pluribus Unum (1782-1956). Thank you President Eisenhower for dividing us... Thank you for the degradation of our education system... Thank you for overriding the motto selected by our Nation's architects to be all inclusive... and thank you for signing an unconstitional law that violates the separation of church and state... that defaced our money and POA with your blatantly illegal endorsement of christianity

    July 29, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
    • tallulah131

      Aw, man. Ike did that? Foo. I'd always liked Ike. Now I'm just disappointed.

      August 1, 2014 at 2:06 am |
      • G to the T

        To be fair McCarthy-ism was at its peak and he was under a LOT of external pressure.

        August 1, 2014 at 1:53 pm |
  10. kenmargo

    I think we all can agree both sides have dirty hands in this conflict. People will always pick one side over the other. Lets hear some ideas on how to improve the situation. Shoot for the moon, think outside the box. I'll start.

    Build a tunnel from Gaza to the west bank. It will allow Gazans the opportunity to leave Gaza and get from under the control of Hamas. It will be for the Palestinians only. Inform them that if the tunnels are used for terrorist activity, the tunnel will be shut.

    July 29, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
  11. Theo Phileo

    Now, the President needs to acknowledge that occupation is evil, and it is time he recognizes those engaged in nonviolent resistance against the occupation. They are those who live every day through checkpoints, blockades, home demolitions and expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank.
    ------------------
    Israel is not against a Palestinian state. All that needs to happen is for them to rec0gnize Israel's right to exist, and then lay down their arms, and then peace will reign. No more checkpoints, blockades, or h0me dem0liti0ns...

    Dennis Prager had a great piece on this recently that was highlighted by Todd Friel on the July 26th episode of Wretched Radio.-–http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=72814142483

    July 29, 2014 at 3:11 pm |
    • igaftr

      theo
      " All that needs to happen is for them to rec0gnize Israel's right to exist, and then lay down their arms, and then peace will reign. No more checkpoints, blockades, or h0me dem0liti0ns"

      Bull. Isreal has been illegally expanding it's borders since 1948. Your statement is extremely one sided.
      Maybe Isreal should go back to thier legal borders for a start. Simply to recognize their right to exist and lay down arms...BS,,,that is incredibly nieve theo, incredibly.
      Did you see that dokumentary "Five broken cameras?" It clearly shows Isreal is the aggressor who have broken their word many, many times.

      Your over simplification and one sided opinion are not even close to accurate.

      July 29, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        Palistine "You are the ones who came and stole our lands that our people have lived on for more than 3000 years!"
        Israel "Yeah, but that's only because God told us to!"
        Palistine "Well our God didn't say anything about that to us!"
        Israel "Well then you really should talk to him more cause he definately gave us this land!"
        Palistine "We will bomb you!"
        Israel "Not if we bomb you first!"
        "Arrggghhhhh!"
        "Arrggghhhhh!"

        We should so not be in the middle of this...

        August 1, 2014 at 6:05 pm |
    • Reality

      As noted previously:

      Israel- Its formation was approved by the UN in 1948. It should honor the original UN agreement and live within the described borders. Considering the hate generated by passages in the Koran and OT, erecting dividing walls between Muslims and Jews was a great idea and should continue as long as they do not violate the '48 accord. UN forces should control these walls.

      And Jerusalem should be made into an international city under the control and protection of the UN.

      And an easy and peaceful solution to the Mideast situation and all religions in general has been posted on page one of the commentaries.

      July 29, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
    • In Santa We Trust

      Israel is in contravention of the Geneva Convention and several UN resolutions and is a long way from being an innocent victim in this issue.

      July 29, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
  12. James XCIX

    "...Muslim guests were shocked and dismayed when they heard the President say, “Israel has the right to defend itself.”

    Good grief, is it the author's contention that all Muslims should feel that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself? This is a political issue–stop trying to make it into a religious one.

    July 29, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
    • Alias

      Are you really that ignorant of the region?

      July 29, 2014 at 3:33 pm |
      • James XCIX

        Well, of course not, but that's the whole point–it's regional, not religious. The attendees at the White House meal were, presumably, Americans since " Muslims from all over the country accepted a White House invitation". They are more or less uninvolved. Why should they feel a certain way about the situation simply because of their religion?

        July 29, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
  13. LaBella

    "There is a difference between teaching your belief and not endorsing God."
    The second a teacher endorses God in a public school is the moment they have violated the 1st Amendment and that teacher is too stupid to be allowed to teach children, if they don't understand that very basic concept.

    July 29, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
  14. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    In war... God is always on the side of the righteous... this only applies to the winner

    July 29, 2014 at 2:19 pm |
  15. Vic

    I posted the following earlier today on a previous Blog post, and it occurred to me to share it here for relevance in the general sense:

    From my own understanding and experience studying the Bible, in matters of Faith/Belief in God and Redemption, hence "Salvation by the Grace of God through Faith ALONE in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and apart from the Law and its works," ONLY God has Dominion, there is no self or other human hand in it, just like creation. Human dominion is given only in self "Free Will," hence to believe or not, decision making, life choices, actions, etc.

    The Lord Jesus Christ did not establish any ecclesiastical human government as man, rather, He is the Head of the Church —simply the body of believers— as the Divine Him.

    Civil governments for order in the land, hence the "Law of the Land," is a "natural function" and it DOES NOT meddle in the individual's Faith/Belief in God, hence the "Establishment Clause" and the "Free Exercise Clause" as well as the "Wall of Separation." That "natural function" is what the Founding Fathers grounded in "Natural Law" —the basis for the U.S. Constitution— which they believed is from "Nature's God" whence comes "Unalienable Rights."

    July 29, 2014 at 2:19 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      Deine Worte sind schwach und verdreht wie eine alte Frau!

      July 29, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
      • Reality

        "Your words are weak and twisted like an old woman!"

        July 29, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
        • Reality

          (From Google Translate)

          July 29, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
    • LaBella

      Creator implies whatever God one believes in. That's why it was framed that way

      July 29, 2014 at 4:16 pm |
    • kudlak

      Vic
      It would be one thing if we actually had God personally telling us that he has this authority, but all we have is an ancient book that theologians interpret as meaning there is a God out there who has dominion over the Earth. Problem is, most mythologies and other sacred writings all make the same claims_ about different gods_ all equally as baseless as your claim.

      Besides, even if God actually was there for everyone to see giving this order, we'd still have the right to stand up to his authoritarian rule, wouldn't we?

      July 29, 2014 at 5:31 pm |
  16. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    E Pluribus Unum (1782-1956) RIP. (sarcasm) We've been doing great since God replaced you...(/sarcasm)

    July 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
    • Alias

      No no no.
      You should have said "We've destroyed education without you" and left the sarcasm warnings out.

      I'm sure at least one bible hugger would have caught the twist on their lies about schools since prayer was removed. And it would have been worth it.

      July 29, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        Hmm.. that does sound better... too bad we can't edit our own posts...

        July 29, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • Alias

          It is easier to criticize than create.

          July 29, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
  17. Theo Phileo

    Although one of the jobs of government is to ensure the protection of religious freedoms in America, that goal is not obtained by making a concerted effort to fill positions with members from a specific group.

    Although anyone outside of a governmental office may lobby for their particular cause to whomever they choose, a government official is to be the representative of the people – ALL the people, and that cannot be done by an individual who is sold out to only a single cause.

    This is why it is best to fill positions in government by those who are unbiased in all matters, so that they may best weigh the information that they have to make the best decisions they can to make this nation sustainable for all people of all faiths.

    When one group is persecuted by government, then it isn't long before ALL groups are persecuted by government.

    July 29, 2014 at 9:35 am |
    • igaftr

      Good theo, so you agree that the lie on our money should be removed, and the Pledge of Allegience should be returned to it's original form, in order to remove the persecution of those who do not believe in gods, right?

      And removal of all the other laws that promote christianity and remove the rights of people who do not believe in your god?
      Right?

      July 29, 2014 at 10:07 am |
      • Theo Phileo

        I didn't say any of that.

        But I will say this – having "in God we trust" on the money printed by a government who, by some of the laws it passes denies the existence of God is nothing short of blasphemy. If the government prints it, then it should live by it. If it doesn't live by it, then it shouldn't print it.

        July 29, 2014 at 11:16 am |
        • G to the T

          "I didn't say any of that."

          How do you reconcile believing that no one religious view should be espoused by our government vs a specific religious view being printed on our money and included in our pledge (esp since both were only added recently)?

          July 29, 2014 at 11:23 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          You seem to wrongly view the gov't as an enti.ty and as being single minded as to its motives.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          How do you reconcile....
          --------------
          It isn't a far stretch to see that the government is hypocritical in many things. In this particular instance, it is one of two things... Either it is a reflection of the ideals of the puritans who first escaped to these shores to escape religious persecution, OR they recognize that the vast majority of US citizens are Christian, so they print that slogan on our money in order to gain political capital.

          Either way, if they don't live it, then they shouldn't print it.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • igaftr

          theo
          "When one group is persecuted by government, then it isn't long before ALL groups are persecuted by government"

          So you disagree with governmental persecution, which includes the LIE on our money , the hijacking of the POA...so you DID say that...you speak out against one form, but balk at another form? Which is it theo.

          By the way, the statement you make about the lie on our money...what are you trying to say? The government is supposed to believe in god? how can a government believe anything?

          July 29, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • colin31714

          I woul support a (very large) one dollar bill that said:

          In Azura Mazda, Angus, Belenos, Brigid, Dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Allah Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, God, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Eostre, Frigg, Ganesh, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Shiva Thuno, Tir, Vishnu, Weyland, Woden, Yahweh, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, Saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Herne, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, Endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, Ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fukurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac and Zaramamawe trust.

          Again, thanks to Doc V for compiling this cornucopia of gods.

          July 29, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • No Wake Zone

          Here are the gods in alphabetical order if anybody wants this list:

          Alfar
          Allah
          Amaterasu
          An
          Angus
          Anshar
          Anu
          Anubis
          Aphrodite
          Apollo
          Apollo
          Apsu
          Ares
          Artemis
          Ashur
          Ataegina
          Atehna
          Aten
          Attis
          Atum
          Azura
          Bacchus
          Balder
          Bast
          Belenos
          Benzaiten
          Bes
          Beyla
          Bil
          Bishamonten
          Bragi
          Brigid
          Byggvir
          Capac
          Ceres
          Cupid
          Cybele
          Dagda
          Dagr
          Daikoku
          Damkina
          Dana
          Demeter
          Diana
          Dionysus
          Disir
          Ea
          Ebisu
          Eir
          El-Gabal
          Elves
          Endovelicus
          Endovelicus
          Enki
          Enlil
          Eos
          Eostre
          Epona
          Ereshkigal
          Eris
          Forseti
          Freya
          Freyr
          Frigg
          Frigga
          Fukurokuju
          Gaia
          Ganesh
          Geb
          God
          Hadad
          Hades
          Hapi
          Hathor
          Heget
          Heimdall
          Hekate
          Hel
          Helios
          Hephaestus
          Hera
          Hermes
          Herne
          Hestia
          Hoenir
          Holda
          Horus
          Hotei
          Hretha
          Idunn
          Imhotep
          Inanna
          Inari
          Inti
          Ishtar
          Isis
          Isis
          Izanagi
          Izanami
          Janus
          Jord
          Juno
          Jupiter
          Jurojin
          Khepry
          Khnum
          Kingu
          Kishar
          Kon
          Lofn
          Loki
          Lugh
          Ma’at
          Maahes
          Maia
          Mama Cocha
          Mama Quilla
          Manco
          Marduk
          Mars
          Mathilde
          Mazda
          Menhit
          Mercury
          Minerva
          Mithras
          Mitra
          Mon
          Mont
          Mummu
          Nabu
          Nammu
          Nanna
          Naunet
          Nehalennia
          Neith
          Nephthys
          Neptune
          Nergal
          Nerthus
          Ninhursag
          Ninlil
          Nintu
          Njord
          Norns
          Nott
          Nunurta
          Nut
          Odin
          Osiris
          Pachacamac
          Pan
          Pluto
          Plutus
          Poseidon
          Proserpina
          Ptah
          Quetzalcoatl
          Ra
          Ran
          Runesocesius
          Saga
          Saxnot
          Sekhmnet
          Selene
          Set
          Shamash
          Shef
          Shiva Thuno
          Sif
          Sin
          Siofn
          Skadi
          Snotra
          Sobek
          Sol
          Sol Invictus
          Susanoo
          Syn
          Tefnut
          Tengu
          Thor
          Thoth
          Tiamat
          Tir
          Tlaloc
          Tsukiyomi
          Tyr
          Ull
          Uranus
          Utu
          Vali
          Var
          Venus
          Vesta
          Vidar
          Vishnu
          Vor
          Vulcan
          Weyland
          Woden
          Yahweh
          Zaramamawe
          Zeus

          July 29, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
        • zhilla1980wasp

          theo: here is the history of both.
          "On this day in 1956, two years after pushing to have the phrase "under God" inserted into the pledge of allegiance, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signs a law officially declaring "In God We Trust" to be the nation's official motto. The law, P.L. 84-140"

          "The first paper money with the phrase "In God We Trust" was not printed until 1957."

          "At a Flag Day speech in 1954, he elaborated on his feelings about the place of religion in public life when he discussed why he had wanted to include "under God" in the pledge of allegiance: "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

          LINK: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-eisenhower-signs-in-god-we-trust-into-law

          July 29, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • kudlak

          Theo
          The thing about "God" is that there really isn't a set of particular things that everyone who believes in him agrees he is against. Thus, any government who passes laws that only reflect a particular denomination's, or even a majority's view of what God is against would be infringing on the religious freedom of other believers who do not share that belief. If whole groups of Christians, for example, have no problem with gay marriage then how could the government ever claim to be representing "Christian" views with any law, either for or against, without violating the first amendment? That's why your law has to be secular, favouring no particular sect, correct?

          July 29, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
        • QuestionsEverything

          Which laws passed by our government specifically deny the existence of any god(s)?

          July 29, 2014 at 4:27 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          My vote goes to "In Santa we trust" on the currency.

          July 29, 2014 at 4:48 pm |
        • kudlak

          QuestionsEverything
          The very fact that it is not unlawful to draw pictures of nature, take photos of people, sculpt busts of historic figures, produce and broadcast TV is a clear disregard of the second (or first) Commandment, correct? By that standard, all American legal tender is blasphemous because it at least features one graven image of a president, or other noted figure from their history.

          July 29, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Basically, Theo is okay with violating the Constitutional rights of non-christians. He apparently failed history class, so he doesn't know that our government was created to protect our freedoms from people exactly like him.

          August 1, 2014 at 2:17 am |
        • kermit4jc

          Right..let the rest of the Middle East have their way and destroy Israel...that's what they keep saying...especially ever since WW 2 they want to annihilate them...and don't deny this.......

          August 1, 2014 at 2:23 am |
    • In Santa We Trust

      No one is unbiased on all matters. btw what groups do you feel are persecuted by the government?

      July 29, 2014 at 10:10 am |
      • zhilla1980wasp

        my vote is the poor; namely seeing how big business has bought out all the tickets to the party. lol

        July 30, 2014 at 7:35 am |
    • Alias

      You say that now, but what if a president appionted zero christians?
      Would that change your perspective?

      July 29, 2014 at 10:24 am |
      • Theo Phileo

        Are you kidding? I'm not entirely convinced that there are Christians in political offices now!

        July 29, 2014 at 11:13 am |
        • LaBella

          Maybe they're just being unbiased.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:19 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Well there are an awful lot that claim to be, they wear it as a badge of honor and unabashedly use it for political gain.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Well there are an awful lot that claim to be, they wear it as a badge of honor and unabashedly use it for political gain.
          -----------------
          Exactly my point.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:24 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          Well your fellow Christians are the ones that continually fall for the ruse Theo...you should talk to them.

          Except CHristians like yourself can't even agree as to what it means to be CHristian...maybe you all should stop using the word 'Christian' in an attempt to group yourselves politically for power. Maybe it would be a good idea for all people of all faiths to frown on politicians that use religious belief for political gain. Of course to do that people of faith would have to stop trying to get their religious views legislated into law.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:38 am |
        • lunchbreaker

          I actually agree with you Theo. For quite sometie I have said it is silly to vote simply based on what religion a politician claims to be, simply for the fact that, Christian or not, in most cases a politician knows it is in thier best interest to claim to be Christian.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:56 am |
        • kudlak

          Theo
          Maybe it's because they realize that they aren't in the company of fellow believers? It's easy to come to consensus within a church group that readily accepts the leadership and authority of a single person, but amongst peers and equals, such as senators and congresspeople typically find themselves working, it's far more difficult, right? Usually, negotiation and concession is needed in order to get anything done, and we all know that many Christians simply don't believe in bending at all. If you want to fit in with a diverse group you have to either bully them into following your preferences, or you have to learn to treat people equally. Is that so bad?

          July 29, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
  18. Doc Vestibule

    Muslims represent 0.6% of the US population, according to 2008 census information.
    Buddhists are 0.5% – so why doesn't Obama appoint a bald, robe wearing monk as ambassador and properly recognize the plight of the Tibetans?
    Neither group are a statistically significant demographic, I'm afraid.
    Furthermore, the US will never end it's support for Israel. It is the most important foothold America has in the Middle East.

    July 29, 2014 at 8:51 am |
    • kudlak

      You can't imagine anything that Israel could possibly do that would sour American public opinion enough for them to withdraw their support? Really?

      July 29, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
  19. Doc Vestibule

    Wow – a vast number of comments have been deleted recently.
    What's going on mods? Can you advise us frequent posters what the criteria are for getting marked for deletion?

    July 29, 2014 at 8:49 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Last time I noticed that happen was when Akira disappeared. Once I figured out she was now LaBella I asked her about it. She said the editors at the Blog and the people at WordPress didn't have an answer as to what happened but that she still couldn't post on he 'Akira' account.

      July 29, 2014 at 10:55 am |
      • LaBella

        I still can't. Daniel Burke said it must be because of my posts on other sites, even though I told him this is the only site I used a WP account to log in on and post, because it's required.

        July 29, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          And I think it is required because some troll hacked the system and was deleting posts.

          July 29, 2014 at 11:45 am |
        • LaBella

          I think the same troll deleted me, although I have no proof of this.
          I still see some of my old posts, though. Just not within the threads I was posting on the day it happened.

          July 30, 2014 at 6:32 pm |
  20. Keith

    God takes no sides in war, Religion has no place in our Government.

    Telling the truth about Israel in the United States gets you called Anti-Semitic.

    Soldiers do very little of the dying in wars as has been demonstrated this week in Gaza. women and Children do most of the dying.

    July 29, 2014 at 12:11 am |
    • Bob

      It's hard to take a side in a war when you don't exist, so I agree with that statement.

      Notably, though, the Christian book of nasty, AKA the bible, does have its fictional deity purportedly taking sides in numerous wars. Just par for the course for that murderous, and fortunately fictional, creature of the Christian myths.

      July 30, 2014 at 8:37 am |
      • Keith

        So, I was obviously talking to those that believe in god. I was in a war 45 years ago for 31 months. I had left home with people telling me that "god" would protect me and that "god" was on our side.

        I was not there but a few days when it became obvious to me that if there was a "god" he had never been to Vietnam. There were a few praying Marines, they did not keep praying long after they got there. I held over two dozen dying boys as their lives drained out of them and I never heard a single one pray, or talk about god. They cried for their mothers, their wives, their children, their fathers.

        I had always heard the stupid phrase there are no Atheists in fox holes. We called on all kind of things to get us out of a jam but it never was god.. We called Huey's, or Cobra's and Chinook's. We called for artillery, and heavy air support, but we didn't have "god's" number.

        July 30, 2014 at 11:36 pm |
    • tallulah131

      This is not a war. It's a slaughter. It shames me that the United States if financially supporting Israel's war of terrorism and aggression.

      August 1, 2014 at 2:09 am |
      • Keith

        All Americans should be ashamed that we have supported Israel as long as we have. Fundamentalist Christians that believe that there has to be an Israel for their Zombie King to return are just as responsible for the US supporting the Jews as the Jews are. Every Congressman that takes money from either of those groups has the blood of innocent Palestinians on their hands.

        August 3, 2014 at 11:01 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.