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August 1st, 2014
08:48 AM ET
Sudanese Christian woman who once faced death penalty arrives in U.S.(CNN) - A Sudanese Christian woman once sentenced to death in her native country because of her faith arrived in her new home, the United States, on Thursday. Mariam Yehya Ibrahim, her husband and two young children were greeted by a large crowd of supporters at Manchester-Boston Regional Airport in New Hampshire. Ibrahim, whose sentence was overturned a few weeks ago, didn't speak with the media. Her brother-in-law, Gabriel Wani, said there was "a lot of happiness right now." New Hampshire's senators, Kelly Ayotte and Jeanne Shaheen, sent staff members to the terminal and sent out a news release welcoming Ibrahim to the state. FULL STORY
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  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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awesome prophecy
third part zech 13:9
And I have brought the third into fire, And refined them like a refining of silver, And have tried them like a trying of gold, It doth call in My name, and I answer it, I have said, 'My people it is,' And it saith, 'Jehovah is my God!'
Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
13:7-9 Here is a prophecy of the sufferings of Christ. God the Father gave order to the sword of his justice to awake against his Son, when he freely made his soul an offering for sin. As God, he is called my Fellow. Christ and the Father are one. He is the Shepherd who was to lay down his life for the sheep. If a Sacrifice, he must be slain, for without shedding of the life-blood there was no remission.
the third part is a reference to the trinity
Isn't it astonishing how you can assign any meaning you want to ambiguous natterings? It didn't take much googling to find a few other interpretations. I guess inconsistent interpretation is a problem among christians. Why else would there be over 30,000 denominations based on the same book!
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies
You might wish to open your closed-mind and read that.
can't wait to see the comments on the next subject. ought to be fun.
Can't wait to laugh at your inept arguments on the next article...should be entertaining!
Comments are closed on that article. However, do you REALLY feel it is fair not to tax churches when the revenue from doing so would greatly reduce the national debt, help with education and social programs or do you not really care about anything other than your imaginary friend and yourself??
I know you misunderstand me since I agree those churches should be taken down, or taxed and soon will be. their wealth and piousness will come to nothing. they owe so much they can never repay except with their very being. that is why Rev.18:4,5 says" get out of her if you do not want to share in her sins and receive part of her plagues for her sins have massed together clear to heaven and God has called her acts of injustice to mind"
What is going to make the church crumble is the lack of attendance. As people become better educated and see the logical fallacies within the bible, they tend to fall away.
infidels.org is a great site for showing you where and why the bible is not correct.
Comments are open on the story on the main CNN site.
Thank you.
♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰
Freedom American Style
As Merriam Ibrahim first touched down in the United States at Philadelphia, PA, the City of Brotherly Love and home for the Declaration of Independence and Liberty Bell, Mayor Michael Nutter presented her with a mini Liberty Bell as a symbol of U.S. Independence and "Freedom," and he called her a "freedom fighter."
God Bless America.
I prefer to thank our Founding Fathers for creating a nation where those who are prosecuted for their beliefs can seek asylum in place where all beliefs (even no belief) are given equal standing.
persecuted too.
That too.
America persecutes all atheists every day, so no...persecution continues from the christians to non-christians, and especially atheists.
vic
Why do you command your god to bless only America?
what makes people think they can command God to do anything?
What makes people believe there are any gods with no evidence anywhere?
c'mon look around, plenty of evidence just in the way we are made and the universe? No intelligence? everything shows more evidence of intelligent design than some foolish big bang theory.
Not even close to being true. What you just said is the same as this.
I see the wind, see it's effect, therefore the giant invisible dragons that make the wind must exist.
There is no evidence anywhere of any gods, and no sign any form of intelligence was at work. There is simply nothing that you can follow that shows the effect (the universe) being caused directly by anything. We simply do not know.
All you can see from the universe is that it exists, what caused it is still being examined, but there is no evidence anywhere to support any "intelligent design" or any gods.
You are completely bypassing logic in favor of belief...baseless belief at that.
Scientific ignorance isn't proof of god. It's just proof of scientific ignorance.
"c'mon look around, plenty of evidence just in the way we are made and the universe? No intelligence? everything shows more evidence of intelligent design than some foolish big bang theory."
Nice God of The Gaps argument. "I don't see how it could be anything else, therefore God"...the height of intellectual dishonesty and willful ignorance!!
Earth's location in the Milky Way and the solar system as well as the planet's orbit, tilt, rotational speed and unusual moon the magnetic field and atmosphere that serve as a dual shield; the natural cycles that replenish and cleanse the planet's air and water supply, so many other features can not be a product of blind chance but only of purposeful design. take this thought from the largest existing life form to the smallest and the chance if coincidence is impossible.
" so many other features can not be a product of blind chance but only of purposeful design"
Nice way to leap to an unjustified conclusion.
Why can't they be?
By all means, show the math proving an impossibility... a tiny probability is still a possibility. Just because you say so, does not make it so.
As far as the planet, it's location etc...Life adapts to the available energy around it. There is nothing showinig that anything was set by any "intelligence"...nothing at all. That is merely an hypothesis, does not even qualify as a theory.
Your argument continues to get weaker.
Wow. Again, jhg, your scientific ignorance isn't proof of god. This planet has changed radically several times since it first formed. Ninety-nine percent of all species to evolve are extinct. The species that could adapt were the ones to survive. This planet was shaped by the forces of the solar system and by it's own structure, not by any divine hand. Life had to evolve to survive on this planet, not the opposite.
proof? no just evidence of enough intelligence in the universe, galaxies, solar system, planet, people etc. down to the smallest item you can identify and it is sufficient to tell me there is a being and not just a bang.
jhg45,
Even if Intelligent Design were proven to be true, there is ZERO PROOF that the designer was God. It could be Zeus or a committee of zombies among an infinite number of possibilities.
As I previously said, jhg, your ignorance is not proof of a god. Instead of waiting for honest truth, you simply stopped looking when you found the answer you like.
wrong tal I never stop looking for truth but what I have seen at jw.org seems to be worth looking into or maybe you have stopped looking. check it out to learn what the Bible really teaches.
"...can not be a product of blind chance but only of purposeful design. "
We're here. I'd say the chances are very good.
What you can't seem to comprehend is that it doesn't matter what the bible teaches. It's a book of human mythology. It has no more authority than other collection of myths. There is no evidence for the existence of ANY of the thousands of gods worshiped by humans. Your scientific ignorance is not proof of god. You simply found an answer you liked and stopped looking for the truth.
I'm more than happy to wait for the honest answers honest people are still looking for. I have no need for myths or play pretend.
You stopped looking for the truth the second you invoke god and tell people to look to the original book written about that god for answers.
The moderators did it again as they have a "Add Comments" line on the previous topic about bishops living un-Christian life styles only to have "Comments Closed".
So to get around this problem, let us make our comments about said topic starting now:
Money wasted as the "vomit-inducing" ped-ophilia and coverup will simply hasten the decline of all religions as they finally go extinct from their own absurdity.. It is time to replace all religions with a few rules like "Do No Harm" and convert all houses of "worthless worship" and bishops' homes to recreation facilities and parks.
And if Francis were really into this vow of poverty life style, he would sell off the treasures of St. Peter's Basilica and distribute the monies to the poor. Ditto for all cathedrals.
It's rather ludicrous. I wonder, what are the religions of those who moderate this blog and why are they so protective of American bishops?
we finally agree but "have faith" it will be their downfall. (it is prophesied) see Rev. ch.17 and 18 to start.
And perhaps you should realize that biblical prophesies have failed.
Open your mind and do some research.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies
It's on the front page of CNN and you can comment there.
Danke Schoen!!
Bitte.
The Words of Jesus Christ has been proven TRUE
–Scientifically and Mathematically–
for all Nations on earth now,
see it with your own eyes to belive it.
19covenant19.com
BIBLICAL EXCELLENT MIRACLES -3-
If God were involved in our daily lives, "cures" would not be needed.
Your website exemplifies a key reason why theists and non-theists talk past each other, you regard unsubstantiated assertions proof. As long as that remains, true discourse is futile.
Don’t Be Judgment-Focused [2 Cor 5:19 …God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them…]
On which two ancient cities did God rain brimstone and fire? If your answer is Sod.om and Gomorrah, you are right. But if you think that God was all eager to destroy the two cities, you are wrong!
God wasn’t willing at all. He was not on a sin hunt. He was on a righteousness hunt so that He could spare the cities. (Genesis 18:23–32) And I believe that if Abraham had asked God, “What if You can find just one righteous man?” God’s answer would have been the same: “I will not destroy the place for the sake of one righteous man.”
Today, the righteousness of one Man—Jesus—has come. Jesus died for our sins and rose again for our justification. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not counting our sins against us!
Therefore, no judgment will fall on you today because it fell on Jesus 2,000 years ago at Calvary. And if God was gracious enough to remove Lot and his family before the judgment fell (Genesis 19:12–22), how much more will He do for you who are no longer under judgment!
And because God does not judge you, don’t be like Lot’s wife, who became a pillar of salt when she turned around to look at the brimstone and fire. (Genesis 19:24–26) She wanted to see God’s judgment, even though the angels had warned, “Don’t look back, lest you be destroyed.” (Genesis 19:17)
So don’t be judgment-focused and look back at the sins you have committed. God is not against you. He is for you and on your side. He remembers that He has already judged and punished your sins in the body of His Son. And because He is faithful to His Son and to what His Son has done, He will never judge or punish you. Any trouble that you might have today is not from Him. But He will show you a way of escape because He is on your side. He loves you and has your best interests at heart.
Beloved, God is not out to get you. He is out to bless you. And He wants you blessed more than you can ever ask or imagine! (Ephesians 3:20)
JPM
And now moving back to the 21st century:
1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
“New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 5-30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
The 5-30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/
For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".
Current RCC problems:
Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
keep parroting this stuff and maybe you will convince yourself some day.
So that is how you convinced yourself the man made book is more than the works of men.
Too bad there is no evidence that any of the supernatural claims of your book are accurate and not just made up.
Oh the hypocrisy in such a short sentence...ignorance must truly be bliss!
Lot's wife looked back at the things behind. yearning for the materialistic, immoral world she was told to leave instead of focusing on the blessings and world ahead that God had promised, same for us today, (see Luke17:31,32) do not look back," remember the wife of Lot"
Lot argued with the angels, got them to okay going to Zoar instead of the directive of fleeing for the hills, and afterward slept with his daughters, but Lot's wife died because she was curious, and you feel it's because SHE was materialistic, etc?
She was curious, and Lot gets to play drunken incestuous games with his daughters, and she is in the wrong. Sure. Lot was an argumentive old codger, but he was "righteous". Nice morals.
sure good to know that God is the one who reads hearts,(see 1 Sam.16:7)
You know nothing of the kind.
Belief is not knowledge.
do you not know what you believe?
Yes you can know what you believe, but that does not mean what you believe is knowledge.
sorry but what I have come to believe is what I have come to know.
Such a pity you extrapolated what you believe God knew in Lot's wife's heart, as Genesis 19 said nothing of the sort.
All of your postulating about poor Mrs. Lot was your beliefs, not what was written.
jhg45 heard a story he/she likes, and he/she has chosen to believe it. No amount of logic, honesty or fact will trump the emotional addiction of a "true believer".
The ability for you to go from a baseless belief, to "knowing" it is called self delusion.
You still do not know.
You have only convinced yourself that what you believe is true.
You do not want knowledge, you want your belief to be true.
Remember the wife of Lot. it will be useful knowledge one day.
also I have to leave for a little while but am sure we will come across one another again, see above for example.
Yes. Remember a woman who was killed for being curious while her argumentative husband was rewarded with drunken incestuous relations with his daughters. Quite the moral lesson. Sure, no conflict there.
And another "th-umptation" hits the dust of historic non-authenticity (Luke 17: 31-32). e.g. http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb064.html
Labella: "And every single one of your posts doesn’t reflect atheism, either."
truthfollower: "Which post are you referring to?"
– – – – – –
truthfollower: "You could choose to believe that ra-pe is morally good"
Labella: "You are describing horrific sociopathic acts "
truthfollower: "Let's say someone believes the Holocaust was morally good. "
Labella: "Do you know what a sociopath is, truthfollower?"
truthfollower: "So if someone disagrees with you, you label them a sociopath?"
====
My goodness –the cheese must have fallen off truthfollower's cracker a long time ago.
Disingenuousness is strong in that poster.
Night all.
Remember,
Answer a few questions for me if you would.
1. How many lies would you say you’ve told in your life?
2. Have you ever stolen anything regardless of its value?
3. Have you ever used God’s name as a curse word? (called blasphemy)
4.have you ever looked at a woman/man lustfully?(if so, Jesus said you have committed adultery with that person in your heart.)
If you’re like me, you are a self professed lying, stealing, blaspheming adulterer at heart or some form thereof. A holy God must punish wickedness, otherwise He wouldn’t be just. Given your confession, will you be guilty or innocent? If you’re like me and everyone else on this board, you are guilty. However, God provided a way for salvation through the blood of His innocent Son who took the punishment on the cross, that we might be declared innocent. Think of it like this. You’re in a court room. you’re guilty as you’ve professed. Someone walks in and pays your fine for you. Now the judge can legally dismiss your case and let you go. This is the gospel message. What you must do is repent (turn from your sins) and follow Jesus as Lord. This following is enabled by God when He gives you new desires and a heart that wants to please God instead of the flesh.
You should really work on some of those personal issues. Self hatred isn't the answer.
Wow, you sound like a jerk,"truthfollower". If you need to believe in a cosmic daddy in order to be a decent human being, please do so. Most people don't need that sort of delusion to be a decent human being.
Same old rhetoric. Can't come up with any new questions?
As Tallulah said, you sound like a jerk!
tf1
On Christianity, let us assume that the majority of self declared Christians are not self loathing psychopaths like yourself. You really should seek treatment, help is available. Of course I meant About Christianity not On Christianity, you may also want to learn the difference.
As TF doesn't know the meaning of the word sociopath, it's doubtful TF knows the meaning of psychopath either.
The toothflower sounds like a wretched fellow. Please, toothflower, endeavor to define and practice decency.
if asteroids fell to earth and boiled the ocean, then could that have altered the decay rate of uranium lead?
that may be a dumb question. but my experience with the supernatural is not dumb.
Claiming you have had experience with the non-existent is dumb.
Don't uranium fueled nuclear reactors run at pretty high temperatures?
Austin,
When you finished perusing the suggested studies on the historical Jesus, I suggest you study the physics of radioactive decay, then get back to us.
Austin,
You are really working to hard at this...just convince yourself God changed the decay rate with magic.
@ truth follower
Rev 11:18
" to those who destroy the earth"
does that not include people who drive cars? and did God like nimrods tower?
I am puzzled at the literal interpretation of "those who destroy the earth"! global warming? I would hesitate to say "no"
Truth........what does destroy the earth mean? does it mean blow something up? i think it means pollute the streams, the oceans, waste the water table............ect. I think we all have to question if this means "worship the works of their hands" such as guns and cars.
What if global warming is true? that verse would apply to cars. That God hates them.
"What if global warming is true?"
It is true and for you or your friend to deny it proves how intellectually dishonest you are! Wake up both of you, denying what the scientists who study this are saying is showing that you both are causing more harm than needed and are both therefore blemishes on our species!
As taken from Dr. William Lane Craig's teachings on the Doctine of Man:
"It has been very interesting to note more recent philosophers like Alex Rosenberg that I debated in February at Perdue[9] or Joel Marks[10] are biting the bullet with respect to this question and are saying what Sartre felt he couldn’t say – namely that our lives are utterly meaningless, utterly valueless, and to think otherwise is to lack the courage that the atheist needs to have if he is to stare the consequences of atheism in the face without blinking.[11]"
Your moral high ground is a mirage. When faced with the exact same behavior by the "saved" that you gleefully condemn the nonbeliever for, what do you do ? Invariably, it is to blink.
I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
See 2 Tim. 1:12
That's wonderful. It in no way addresses my post, but I've grown accustomed to that.
Is your post concerning hypocrisy of many professing Christians? Is there a question you had?
It is a statement regarding the majority who post here, and the non-reaction to them by the vocal minority. In short, you do exactly what you accuse the non-believer of doing. You blink.
Blink in the face of what?
Good grief. You blink in the face of vile behavior by the believer. The vocal minority of believers here regularly ignores personal attacks, insults, and assorted bad behavior by the Christian posters, all while condemning nonbelievers for the same. You have abdicated the moral high ground. Long ago.
Speaking of addressing posts, how does this in any way address my initial post?
Anyway, I don't blink in the face of some comments that I've read by professing believers on here. Some astonish me. Ultimately, it is God who knows each person's heart and whether or not they truly belong to Him.
"... how does this in any way address my initial post? "
That's easy. You make the same point time after time. You claim a moral high ground that simply does not exist. It is a fabrication.
Are things like child molestation and ra-pe really morally bad? As a Christian, I ground objective morality in God's nature so things like child molestation and ra-pe really are morally bad. On atheism, morality is illusory. It's a matter of opinion, similar to whether you think a bowl of cereal is good or bad. On atheism, morality is just a matter of personal taste.
Doesn't seem to stop all of the Christian pedophiles and murderers, does it?
Why do you say they're Christians? Is it merely because they claim to be?
Also, your post does nothing to change the reality of morality in general on atheism.
Why do you deny that they are?
And every single one of your posts doesn't reflect atheism, either.
I don't even know who specifically you're referring to. What I do know is this.
Jesus said in Luke 6:46 "46 “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?"
Matthew 7:21-23
"21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [n]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’"
Notice that it is those who DO the will of God.
Also, read Matthew 7:24-27. Notice the difference between those who hear Jesus' words and put them into practice and those who hear and do not.
"And every single one of your posts doesn’t reflect atheism, either."
Which post are you referring to?
Every single post where you pretend to know an atheist's morals.
And state "on atheism, [...]" as if it were factual.
Although it must be discomfiting to know that atheists are every bit as moral as you, nonetheless it is true.
What you describe is not atheism. It is sociopathy, and guess what? Christians can be sociopaths as well.
LaBella,
On atheism, morality is based on subjective opinion. Your morality can be whatever you want it to be. Let me put it this way. You could choose to believe that ra-pe is morally good or you could choose to believe it's morally evil. Each position on the matter carries equal authority on atheism. You may believe that the Holocaust was morally evil. Hitler may have believed it to be morally good. On atheism, neither one of you is really right or wrong. Your opinion carries equal authority with Hitlers. What foundation, other than your own opinion, do you appeal to to say that Hitler was morally wrong in what he did?
Who told you that atheists believe morals are subjective?
You are describing horrific sociopathic acts as something that all atheists would agree are moral. You are incorrect.
LaBella,
Do you believe morals are objective? If so, what is the foundation for this?
I believe people are inherently born with a moral compass, and I believe our upbringing has a lot to do with how well that compass works.
This moral compass you speak of. Let's say someone disagrees with you on a certain aspect. Let's say someone believes the Holocaust was morally good. Why are you right and they wrong?
Do you know what a sociopath is, truthfollower?
So if someone disagrees with you, you label them a sociopath? Why are they wrong and you right? What makes your view right?
No, I don't think people who disagree with me are sociopaths, because I actually know the meaning of the term.
Do you know what a sociopath is?
Facepalm.
"Never again," cried the man, "never again will we wake up in the morning and think Who am I? What is my purpose in life? Does it really, cosmically speaking, matter if I don't get up and go to work? For today we will finally learn once and for all the plain and simple answer to all these nagging little problems of Life, the Universe and Everything!" ... – Douglas Adams
The answer really is no, or 42, depending on your perspective.
Is your answer supposed to be encouraging for atheists?
Gopher....thanks for that..great author..pity Douglas is gone. He had a truly brilliant perspective on life...
As a Christian, i have to admit that all atheists are wired with God given emotions, and they simply deny God. They don't know He isnt there because He is there. and therefore , they are still wired to value life, they just obsess over deception like its a syndrome.
And maybe they do believe the data about the uranium. thats fine. i believe they do. but they also want to find reasons not to believe in God. and yet they still value life though.
saying life is valueless is just a bad atti.tude and a bad lie.
The stupid is strong in you
Austin..Atheists fully value life..We fully understand that this is it..you may think it continues after death but we do not so make the most it. We savour life and embrace it..and value those around us l have no idea why you would think otherwise We see beauty in the world ..Why you would need a god for these pleasures make no sense.
As an atheist, I have to admit that all Christians are wired with evolved emotions, and they simply pretend they know God.
What a steaming pile of dung, Austin. Stop pretending that you are some sort of authority. You're not. You are just a sad little boy who needs to pretend to be important because you can't stand the fact that you are no more special than anybody else.
Just because life does not have the meaning you imagine does make life meaningless or valueless; I know of no atheist who believes that life meaningless or valueless.
If you could show evidence that there is a god, that there is a heaven, and that humans go there after death well that would be a game-changer as far as the meaning you imagine is concerned, but until then, I for one could not be happier.
Missed an important "not" ...
Just because life does not have the meaning you imagine does not make life meaningless or valueless; I know of no atheist who believes that life meaningless or valueless.
If you could show evidence that there is a god, that there is a heaven, and that humans go there after death well that would be a game-changer as far as the meaning you imagine is concerned, but until then, I for one could not be happier.
On atheism, "meaning" is whatever you want it to be. If you want the meaning of your life to be murdering or ra-ping others, then that is a valid meaning for your life.
Just ask all the Christian rapsits and murderers in prison.
tf, Are saying that without your faith you'd spend your time murdering and raping? I can asure you that my life has plenty of meaning and I have never murdered or raped and never will.
Santa,
Let's hypothetically say that a person decides that the meaning of their life is going to be helping the malnourished in Africa. They could also choose the meaning for your life to be murdering and ra-ping. Each path carries equal meaning.
Santa,
For example. Let's say that Hitler decided that the meaning of his life would be to exterminate the Jewish race. On atheism, he wasn't wrong.
Your "meaning" is whatever you want it to be.
tf
You're making the erroneous presumption that an atheist believes there is no meaning to life and that that also somehow means no ethics. Not true. Atheists also give to charity, do good works, and volunteer. As I said before would you be out murdering and raping without your faith?
truthfollower01,
"On atheism, he wasn't wrong."
You misunderstand. Atheism does not provide any basis for meaning or non-meaning, it is simply a lack of belief in most cases.
"You’re making the erroneous presumption that an atheist believes there is no meaning to life and that that also somehow means no ethics."
I didn't say that an atheist believes there is no meaning. It was Alex Rosenberg in my initial quote who believed that. If the atheist doesn't want to stare the true consequences of atheism in the face, then they can invent meaning for their life.
" Not true. Atheists also give to charity, do good works, and volunteer. As I said before would you be out murdering and raping without your faith?"
Your missing the point of the argument. On atheism, there is no real moral difference between giving to charity and murdering. It's just a matter of opinion or personal taste.
Who taught you your philosophy on atheism, TF? Because they certainly taught you a line of bull.
LaBella,
Concerning morality, if someone disagrees with you, do you label them a sociopath? Why are they wrong and you right? What makes your view right?
Midwest,
To clarify, atheism is the view that there is no God. It is not merely the absence of believe of any deity. Atheism carries huge worldview implications.
"On atheism, morality is based on subjective opinion."
On theism, morality, its alleged objectivity and the alleged source are likewise based on a framework of subjective opinion, i.e theistic faith. Even if you grant the most basic definition of "objective" as referring to an independent outside source, there still remains the subjective opinion regarding whether the alleged independent outside source is reliable. Were I to claim a painting was objectively beautiful because it conforms to the beauty guidelines promulgated by the American Academy of Art Critics, I could claim my determination and the guidelines were objective; however, I am still employing a subjective opinion in choosing to grant first, credulity, and then second, deference to these otherwise objective guidelines.
"To clarify, atheism is the view that there is no God. It is not merely the absence of believe of any deity. Atheism carries huge worldview implications."
Atheism can generally be divided into strong and weak. Strong atheism asserts that there is no god and IMHO, is akin to a faith position. Weak atheism, however, is, again IMHO, more of a probability assessment, i.e. there is a lack of evidence supporting the existence of a god and therefore, god is highly unlikely and unworthy of belief. Weak atheism retains by necessity the probability, however insignificant, that it could be wrong, but in the absence of evidence for the proposition, the weight of the evidence favors a conclusion against the proposition. This is distinguishable from pure agnosticism which asserts there is insufficient evidence to warrant a conclusion either way. Some would refer to weak atheism as a middle ground between pure agnosticism and strong atheism.
"To clarify, atheism is the view that there is no God."
To clarify , you are talking out your backside.
One last point because this horse isn't just dead, it's been ground up and turned into dog food. The practical implications of whether one chooses (again subjective) to adopt an "authoritarian rules" based framework of morality or one based in empathy (e.g. the golden rule) has demonstrated "worldview" implications. In Oliner and Oliner's "The Altruistic Personality," the authors examined rescue behaviors among various groups during WWII. What their data showed was that those who adopted "authoritarian rules" based moral frameworks were less likely to rescue than those who based their efforts on internal notions of empathy. There were certainly theists who rescued based on belief that it was their duty to their faith; however, this notion of deference to authority was recognized as a predisposing factor for non-rescuers and those who were actively antagonistic. The reason offered was obvious; one who adopts an external "authoritarian rules" based moral framework is more susceptible to co-option of a given rules framework by those with malevolent intent. As was clearly demonstrated by the Nuremberg Trials, such "just following orders" justifications are inherently abhorrent.
truthfollower01,
"To clarify, atheism is the view that there is no God. It is not merely the absence of believe of any deity. "
Since when do you get to define the position of others? Do I get to define who is Christian and who is not?
"Atheism carries huge worldview implications."
Only in a sense of potentially removing certain options. A lack of belief in some ideas does not, in itself, posit a "worldview". That would need a different foundation.
"Dr." Craig ... lol. You are obviously not too bright to use him as a reference.
Why?
We give it meaning and value. What other meaning or value would you have assigned to it?
Your source is an evangelist. His opinion is duly noted and given the consideration it deserves. Next!
I find it amusing that in his Wiki entry, he lusts his religion as "a Western Philosophy."
Thank you for providing us with some comedy. WL Craig is too funny and crazy to be taken seriously.
The 21st century stain of terror and horror on the universe? ISLAM !!
we cannot let the refugees across the border....
land of the free and home of the brave... if you can get across the border...
I'm glad that this women was not killed. I feel bad for the thousands killed in Sudan in the last year that weren't as lucky. We have a hard time keeping our eye on the ball.
Lets put aside human decency and compassion for a minute... why do "We" need to keep an eye on their ball? Because to be brutally honest... they could all extinguish themselves and I would count the planet and humanity better for their loss.
I especially have no desire to see any more of our troopers bleeding out into their soil.
That was a 6/10 on the EVIL scale.
Not bad.
I was swinging for at least an 8...
I think you need to avoid disclaimers to get above a 7.
agreed leave them to their own affairs.
".... why do "We" need to keep an eye on their ball? ....
I especially have no desire to see any more of our troopers bleeding out into their soil."
----------------–
We left the Monroe doctrine behind in the rear view mirror well over a century ago. I agree that the US does not need to be the world police, but it begs the question in a highly connected, globalized world what role the US plays, or should play, to protect our interests.
US citizens who go to Iran or North Korea to distribute bibles should be on their own, but when do places like Nigeria (boko haram etc) and the Central African Republic begin to threaten our interests?
Lucifer,
What do you think humanity's overall goal is? Just to keep on advancing until we either go extinct or somehow find a way merge with robots and live forever until the universe ends?
Is that all we are here for? Just to look out for our own interests until we die? Even the broader goal of looking out for humanity's own interests is futile in the end. One day, everyone will be dead and humanity will no longer exist. Why do you value survival of the species when that goal is impossible to maintain?
Life should not be about staying alive for as long as possible, it should be about being the best possible person you can be.
Not sure what your post has to do with mine... but survival is the goal of all species
Also, my name is not Lucifer.
Yes, it is a good thing that she is alive.
I wonder who owns her shopping mall interests in Sudan now?
I suspect her brother.
The Walton family has a history of scoping up malls in distress, going global?
They weren't in distress until her brother stepped in...
Walmart loves minimum wage, can you imagine how low that would be in American dollars in Sudan? Like the religions cash flow is the BUSINESS.
Walmart – destroying small businesses on a global scale... SMH
Without knowing anything, that would be my guess too.
I know this is off topic but I saw this in my local sheriffs log today and had to share:
Date of Report: 7/31/2014
Time of Report: 14:13
Deputy Name:
Report Number:
Charges:
Suspect Arrested Y/N: No
Arrestee: None
Location: King city
Synopsis: Vicitm reported his daughter stole his debit card and check book while he was in the hospital. His daughter then made approximately $6,000 in withdrawls from the victims acc o u n t. His daughter then removed him from the hospital and dropped him off at a Scientology compound near Santa Cruz to recover. He was forced to escape from the Scientology compound.
Bet I know where that 6K went. Scientology... wow... just wow.
Oh, the humanity!
She barely made it out of Sudan alive... you would think they would be a happier looking bunch.
Ever fly 6000+ miles with young children?
Good point. When my wife flew by herself from MD to Panama to join me with 3 kids... she got off the plane and the first thing she did was hold out my then 2yr old son to me saying 'Here!" Nothing else needed to be said, I knew she was pissed.
Yep. Been in those shoes and I've also had my share of changing blown-out diapers in an airplane bathroom. My favorite experience was standing in the line of fire when my (at the time) 3 yr old son was dropping a deuce and forgot to aim downward for the urinary finale. Good times . . .
Besides the heavy toll of the entire ordeal, there is also the shock of appreciation.
God Bless America.
Yes, and Satan Bless America too...
I wonder how many of those children showing up on our southern borders are Christians. I bet quite a few, so I suppose we are greeting them the same way, yes?
Come on Vic shouldn't your mythical God be blessing the whole world? Sh!t, I keep forgetting that your God forgot everybody but his chosen people. Your goofy God was a bigot, not surprising we now have Southern Baptists.
Welcome home, Mariam!
Didn't you question what kind of christian she was in the last article, or do I have you confused with another theist?
Yes it was topher...taken from page 1 of the other article
noahsdadtopher
Great news.
Now the question is ... is she Christian or Catholic?
July 24, 2014 at 10:53 am
Yes, I asked if she was Catholic or Christian. The story was conflicting.
Only to the brain dead amongst us who continue to insist that Catholics aren't Christians.
that is like saying is she baptist or christian
Topher proves once again that he and his fellow Baptists are bigots and are going to reside in their mythical heaven with their bigot of a god.
As a general rule the Catholics I know act about a 1000 times more Christ like than any Baptist I have ever met.
The story wasn't conflicting at all. It stated that she met with the Pope. Big freaking deal.
Where I live there is a degree of gang/drug related killings and shootings. Passing strange that the majority of the thug victims funerals are at one Baptist church or another. Strange fruit.
One thing to keep in mind since there is a lot of specifics on denomination already in this thread is that there are a lot of very different kinds of Baptists in the same way that there are a lot of different kinds of Christians in general.
there are a lot
Doris
I really did not know that, I believed that there were only the Southern crazies and the mainstream Baptists. So we can increase the 40,000 number of Christian cults if Baptists are split into dozens/hudreds of factions/cults. Yet they all band together and shout that there are over 2 billion Christians, yet deny each other that handle, amazing hypocrisy.
Since I am yet to meet two people who have the exact same beliefs about the Christian god I count it as over 2 billion separate denominations as each individual is a denomination all by themselves.
joey
I'll drink to that if the plonk doesn't change to some god's blood, yuck. Of course if you talk to our Topher, there are only about a hundred or two really, real Christians, I bet Topher can name them all.
"Yes, I asked if she was Catholic or Christian. "
And have you yet realized the contradiction there?
Yes, they are quite the varied bunch. I found this on the wiki page which applies I think to many Baptists:
"Most Baptists hold that no church or ecclesiastical organization has inherent authority over a Baptist church. Churches can properly relate to each other under this polity only through voluntary cooperation, never by any sort of coercion. "
So there is everything from the infamous Westboro to very liberal churches. Consequently, I think as we see gay marriage expand through many states, for instance, don't be surprised when you hear about various Baptist churches, especially those in AWAB for instance, becoming some of the first "independent" churches to perform gay marriages in those areas. That might already be the case in some northeast states and CA.
I do agree though, that it seems too often the claims as "as one" while calling each other non-Christians.
the claims are "as one"
I personally think that Christians that you call bigots, are Christians who should judge another church's doctrine and possibly reject it as being apostate.
it is extremely easy to find certain churches you go in and they tell stories about farm animals because they dread the word of God. There are countless churches that reject the word of God.
Hitler was not truly a Christian. He was an apostate.
Austin,
And Catholics are still Christian.
"Hitler was not truly a Christian."
Geez, you're dense Austin!! He followed your god making him a true Christian. You got drunk and drove your car, smashed it in to a church and before doing so put people lives at risk...guess you're not a true Christian either!!
YOU don't have the right to judge anyone.
she was kicked out of her home.
don't care, just another person to live off the system until they get a movie/book deal.
What about Pastor Abedini?
It's very odd the complete silence on this, isn't it?
Generally deals such as that are brokered behind closed doors, and out of the public eye. And if Iran says no then there really isn't much we can do about it. Unless you are willing to start World War Three.
If the answer is 'no' and there's no chance of negotiating, then we should come out and say so. It's been 2 years.
As unfortunate as this is, two years is, in itself, an answer.
Unfortunately, the media is about entertainment.
Viewers do not wan to hear about a story every day for 2 years that isn't changing.
♰ ♰ ♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰ ♰ ♰
God Bless The USA
Just curious, why not ask him to bless the entire world?
Galatians 6:2
"2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ." (NASB)
God bless.
That didn't answer the question. I guess if you don't have answer, you just throw in a pointless bible verse.