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August 6th, 2014
08:59 AM ET
Blood libel: the myth that fuels anti-SemitismBy Candida Moss and Joel Baden, special to CNN (CNN) - Last week a video of Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan emerged in which he claimed that Jews use the blood of non-Jewish children to make matzo for Passover. The translation of Hamdan’s interview with the Lebanese television station Al-Quds on July 28 reports him as saying:
When confronted about his statements by CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Monday, Hamdan did not retract his claim or distance himself from the blood libel slur. His only defense was that he “has Jewish friends.” Whatever “historical evidence” or “facts” Hamdan believes himself to be remembering, this is nothing more than the infamous blood libel: the most persistent and longest-lived anti-Semitic myth in history, aside from the claim that the Jews killed Jesus. The blood libel originated in medieval England with the death of William of Norwich. William was a 12-year-old tanner’s apprentice who was killed in 1144. At the time of his death, his parents accused the local Jewish community of responsibility, but investigations revealed nothing. Six years later Thomas of Monmouth, a Benedictine monk, decided to investigate and sensationalize the murder. Drawing purely on anti-Semitic hearsay and sensationalism, he wrote a martyrdom account, "The Life and Miracles of William of Norwich," in which he said local Jews, acting as part of an international conspiracy, crucified the young boy as part of a ritual to reclaim control of the Holy Land. Monmouth’s work was used to garner financial support from pilgrimages to the boy’s grave and laid the foundations for the blood libel. Similar stories crop up throughout Europe in the Middle Ages, often accompanied by episodes of violence and retaliation toward Jews. Stories of mob lynchings and illegal trials abound, especially during the Crusades, when these stories were used to justify pogroms. In the case of the disappearance of 2-year-old Simon of Trent in March 1475, the entire Jewish community was arrested and 15 men burned at the stake after being forced to confess under torture. Until 1965, Simon of Trent was regarded as a saint in the Catholic Church. Throughout history the specifics of the blood libel varied and expanded. It primarily involved the baking of Christian blood in Passover matzo, but early accounts also occasionally described the crucifixion of children, the poisoning of wells, and the use of Christian blood to heal cuts from circumcision. It should go without saying that these lurid stories in all their manifestations are patently untrue. But these accusations of ritualistic murder and cannibalism are found not only in anti-Semitic propaganda. Early Christians faced their fair share of slander, too. The Christian writer Minucius Felix records one rumor, which spread widely in the second and third centuries, that early Christians would ritually kill and consume infants as part of their initiation rites. These accusations are effective because they strike at the heart of society’s fears about outsiders. They involve the most vulnerable (children), the destruction of public resources (wells), or the presence of secret organizations in society's midst. Accusing those who are religiously different of attempting to undermine society by engaging in the ultimate taboo of cannibalism provides a justification for dislike of and violence toward small nonconformist groups. But the shadows of history are long, and the longevity of this particular slander is impressive. As recently as 1928, Jews in Massena, New York, were victims of blood libel. And in 2005, 20 members of the Russian Duma attempted to ban all Jewish organizations on the grounds that Jewish groups were anti-Christian and practiced ritual murder. References to the Nazis are irresponsibly bandied about in modern discourse, but in the case of blood libel these myths helped sow the seeds of the Holocaust. In his interview Hamdan linked blood libel to current events in Israel. He said, “The Israelis concentrate on killing children. … This is engraved in the historical Zionist and Jewish mentality, which has become addicted to the killing of women and children.” Blood libel is only one chapter in the violent history of anti-Semitism, but it resurfaces throughout as a means of encoding anti-Jewish sentiment and justifying violence toward and mistreatment of Jews. As Osama al-Baz, an adviser to former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, observed in 2013, some “Arab writers and media figures … attack Jews on the basis of … racist fallacies and myths that originated in Europe.” Hamas may be doing no more than repeating tired cultural clichés and long-debunked slander, but myth and action go together. The history of Europe is a testimony to the devastating power of the blood libel. People and cultures are defined by the myths they create, but also by the myths they accept and propagate. Joel S. Baden is professor of Hebrew Bible at Yale Divinity School. Candida Moss is a professor of New Testament and early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame.
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Blood matzos? Yech! Does Manischewitz actually offer that variety? I'll stick with the floor and water matzos myself.
By the way, the practice of stoning "adulterous women" to death, which is practiced by Muslims, was adopted from the Jewish Old Testament. Yes, many of the most ancient and most barbarous practices of all history were adopted from Judaism.
ya. this is very true. and for that reason muslims are very respectable as people they try hard to please a God.
They have all kinds of potential and devotion.
No, austin, they are easily led, very gullible sheeple. Just like you, stupid. Prime fodder for pulling over to a competitive cult.
i'm sure they have all heard about the sciences. wonder what happened.
Many Muslims no doubt have erroneous beliefs.
But this article is simply an attempt to excuse Christians, who spread such myths for centuries and who killed more than 6 million Jews during the Holocaust, by smearing all Muslims.
Only a few years ago did Pope John Paul II overturn the Christian teaching of a thousand years that all Jews for all time were guilty of killing Jesus.
Pope John Paul did not ammend the bible.
lets get into the new testament to reveal the validity of the " teachings".
The persecution of jews is not supposed to be inflicted by "chriistians" only apostates would persecute anyone.
The only rule or bar that matters is what it says in the new testament.
"lets get into the new testament to reveal the validity"
may as well stop right there. there are quite a few scholars that would like to have time to think and chuckle at that thought
"Only a few years ago did Pope John Paul II...."
Let's see only with the most current pope do we see a change in atti.tude from the last one who.....
turned and blessed the representative from Uganda and thanked her for her Christmas gift to get the "kill all the gays bill" passed in the Ugandan legislature...
austintatiousness:
"peace is promised to all of mankind in the context of Jesus Christ.
Outside of this supernatural reality, I have to admit that mankind is greatly soul enslaved to the lack of peace."
"Hey kudlak, it is entirely disengenous of you to use the word Christian, as if you know what it means."
Austin proves today it's neck and neck between him, truthfollower and Theo for the Sanctimonious BS Award.
Let's not forget Topher who seems to know his god's thoughts on who deserves what for their "sins".
Doris, ask kudlak if he or she is a Christian. what will be the answer................
Answer: The gift of discerning spirits, or “distinguishing” spirits, is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit described in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11. Like all these gifts, the gift of discerning spirits is one of the gifts believers are given by the Holy Spirit, who disperses these gifts to individuals for service in the body of Christ. Every believer has spiritual enablement and capacity for a specific service, but there is no room for self-choosing. The Spirit distributes spiritual gifts according to the sovereignty of God and in accordance with His plan to edify the body of Christ.
When it comes to the gift of discerning spirits, every born-again believer has a certain amount of discernment, which increases as the believer matures in the Spirit. In Hebrews 5:13-14 we read that a believer who has matured beyond using the milk of the Word as a babe in Christ is able to discern both good and evil. Not only is the maturing believer empowered by the Spirit of God through the Scriptures to tell the difference between good and evil, but also between what is good and what is better. In other words, any born-again believer who chooses to focus upon the Word of God may be enabled to be spiritually discerning.
There are certain individuals, however, who have the God-given ability to distinguish between the truth of the Scriptures and erroneous and deceptive doctrines propagated by demons. Although we are all exhorted to be spiritually discerning (Acts 17:11; 1 John 4:1), some in the body of Christ have been given the unique ability to “spot” the forgeries in doctrine that have plagued the church since the first century. But this does not involve a mystical, extra-biblical revelation or a voice from God. Rather, the spiritually discerning among us are so familiar with the Word of God that they instantly recognize what is contrary to it. They do not receive special messages from God; they use the Word of God to “test the spirits” to see which line up with God and which are in opposition to Him. The spiritually discerning are those who “rightly divide” (2 Timothy 2:15) the Word of God in a thoughtful and diligent manner.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/gift-discerning-spirits.html#ixzz39euWJHk3
"There are certain individuals, however, who have the God-given ability to distinguish...."
Cultish I'm_right_and_you_are_wrong_ism. In other words,
disgusting self-rigthteousness; sanctimonious B S.
righteousness
Post by 'austin929' contains multiple instances of the Secret Decoder Ring fallacy and other common fallacies.
http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html
quit being lazy hal.
information that is not readily available is "cult" information. your cop out should read truthfully as follows..............
"I refuse to examine the new testament in whole, I would rather take cheap shots"
........................common dishonesty and perversion.
Nonsense, austin. Cultish elements are plentiful in some of the most popular endeavors. Refusing to look at the NT as a whole? Hmm. Sometimes one has a choice to see a movie in its original format – the way it was first released. Sometimes, movies are then glossed over by a board who determines what the final edited format it to be release to the U.S. So often such movies are edited – sometimes quite a bit. So which is the "truer" movie; and in who's eyes?
Anyway, here's something to consider when looking at the NT as a whole: Paul's written word is blessed as scripture in Peter 2. Most NT scholars today have good reason to think that Peter the Apostle did not author Peter 2. Evidently, there was more turmoil in getting Peter 2 into the canon than even Revelation.
It is hard to take something as a whole that wasn't created as a whole.
It's amazing that people this stupid still exist in the world.
Don't be stupid the Jews use only kosher elements for their math.
Some of these comments are truly bizarre.....
It is a good thing God is not a crackhead!
I wonder if there's a link between the sacrifice of a lamb at Passover and the typical Christian association of a lamb with Jesus, with Christian children representing his innocence?
passover nisan14-21
uleavened bread Nisan 15
first fruits nisan 16
crucifixion Nisan 14
burial / sin, unleavened bread Nisan 15
resurrection sunday Nisan 16
The Passover and the Festival of Unleavened Bread
4 “‘These are the Lord’s appointed festivals, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5 The Lord’s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord’s Festival of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present a food offering to the Lord. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’”
Offering the Firstfruits
9 The Lord said to Moses, 10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the Lord a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah[a] of the finest flour mixed with olive oil—a food offering presented to the Lord, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin[b] of wine. 14 You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.
The Festival of Weeks
15 “‘From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16 Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath,
feast of weeks, = ascended into heaven pentacost
resurrection
Leviticus 23 was from the time of Moses 1400 BC give or take
austin, while you are dumping bible bile on us from your disgusting holy book, let's take a look at some of the fine guidances in there purportedly from your "god". From both foul testaments, and note the text after the quotes:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
1 Timothy 2:11
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
bob, correct. God has the ultimate authority and judgment. People were put out, and they were not given the opportunity to convert. this character can also be as.sumed as relevant when pondering the God of Israel, as well as one's choice to follow the Devil in the absence of God's eternal kingdom.
No. You are a LIAR, austin. I did not state, and nor do I acknowledge, that your sky fairy has any authority. Your god plainly does not exist.
I was quoting from your nasty book of myths. Read it again, but this time, try to be honest. From both foul testaments of your evil mythbook:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
1 Timothy 2:11
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
In Roman Catholic teachings, a lamb is generally a female virgin that is impregnated, and with children, Jesus would generally be the representation of the mate, or that of a traditional husband in a coupled relationship.
Tis not rocket science, or is there something that sways towards why certain people claim to be gay, and are not gay?
wow. can we get a citation for the lamb being a female impregnated? I have never heard that.
Your second comment is great.! lol.
Who claims to be gay when they're not actually gay?
I don't want to get in to it. Is there a possibility ?
"Who claims to be gay when they're not actually gay?"
Someone that wants to break up. George Costanza comes to mind.
Oh, it's a good plot point, I'll give you that.
Jack Tripper did it, too.
"Is it a possibility?"
Of course it's a "possibility." Anything is possible.
That is entirely untrue.
The Lamb of God is Jesus.
Defting
So, you're suggesting that the Jesus story is more like the Oedipus myth than any other? Sorry, but I just don't see that!
And with the gay thing, maybe you've got that backwards too, and you're thinking of all the gay folks who pretend to be straight? Plenty of those all throughout Christianity, not that I blame them. Christianity can make it very rough on those folks, unjustly so.
It is absurd to say that the zionists want to eat the goy,who would fight their wars for them?
peace is promised to all of mankind in the context of Jesus Christ.
Outside of this supernatural reality, I have to admit that mankind is greatly soul enslaved to the lack of peace.
Can you prove this "supernatural reality"?
It is written. ..................
Lots of things have been written, but not all of them are true.
5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.
austin929
What makes you think that Luke 24:5-10 is historically accurate?
TTFN
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may indeed be glorified with Him." (Romans 8:12-17).
Romans 8:12-17 – The Spirit Himself Bears Witness
Using the book to prove the book again...how very circular and lazy and weak and narrow-minded.
Truth prevails.
The book is alive. If you trust God to reveal the truth, if you trust God with the conflict in your mind as flesh, you can find yourself being awakened to the life of the living Word.
I have experienced it. He made it alive in me.
Austin, what you posted is entirely circular, as others have noted. And as for your disgusting holy book, let's take a closer look at what your purported "word of god" actually has your violent, vengeant sky fairy demanding of you. From both foul testaments, and note the text following the quotes:
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
1 Timothy 2:11
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Leviticus 25
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into s.exual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds
13 Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the Lord, how I hid an hundred men of the Lord's prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?
See Bob, you would rather stand up for the evil murder Jezebel.
I see how you are.
Austin: A book is alive?? WoW!!! Now you have confirmed your ignorance! Do you even comprehend what circular reasoning is and why it fails???
austin929
Can you prove that "the Spirit" isn't just a manifestation of your own desires? You know, apart from what that book again says.
HI Kudlak good morning. As far as that proof goes you are asking me " can I prove" and the answer is that if I can tell the truth I can prove it. why ,.............because of statistical experience, which I do not need the communities observance to experience something. so if you believed what I was saying I can tell you.
on the other hand, you are looking for proof that you have, and not that I speak of. and you can also obtain that proof.
it takes time and hope . are you willing to search for proof with sincere longing?
austin: "[pretty much most of what he said there]"
Austin, that sounds familiar. Oh wait, that's right -I had to pick up some stuff at the mall the other day and ran into some of those Scientology people. (I just pretended to get a vibrate cell phone emergency call from someone and that I had to leave right away.)
Every lack of peace is a transgression from the New Covenant.
Christians have never started wars?
Hey kudlak, it is entirely disengenous of you to use the word Christian, as if you know what it means.
If you knew, you would embrace the doctrine for what it says, instead of eliminating the doctrine and perverting the term.
The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
austin929
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy.
You don't recognize them as real Christians, while others don't recognize you as one ... it's all just opinion, isn't it?
Leviticus 19:11 ►
"'Do not steal. "'Do not lie. "'Do not deceive one another.
Kudlac, if you aren't a Christan you don't know.
"if you aren't a Christan you don't know"
Wow Austin. How would you know what kudlak knows? Just because s/he is not a Christian now doesn't mean they weren't. You might wish to start following the Golden Rule, it seems you have more to worry about with your own transgressions and being a bad Christian, than kudlak has for being skeptical.
Truth Prevails, you can study up on the idea of being a Christian and then deciding not to be any more. it is a topic that is touched on concerning salvation and the Lamb's book of life.
Romans 8:29 ►
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession–to the praise of his glory. (Eph 1:13,14)
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Eph 4:30)
Every ancient culture had similar edicts.
If Christianity had never happened, this still would be true.
its strange to have conversations where people refer to Christianity as fallacy religion.
for example, if there was no Christ, would there be sin? would people selfishly manipulate others with edicts if there was no sin?
the answer is no.
I was referring to "'Do not steal. "'Do not lie. "'Do not deceive one another.
oh, ok. I hear the no true scottsman thing, and it's as if the doctrine of the great apostacy is all together erased in peoples minds and the worst examples of the Christians, have to be "true Christians"
it seems like a smear, and thats what the devil is intending to do. at any rate, I figure i could relate it to lying.
I think one who refuses to hear the word, and to use the scottsman comment, its almost like self deception about the purity of Christ likeness.
No, Austin. You plainly committed the No True Scotsman fallacy. Go look it up.
austin929
So, what you're saying is that only people who actually stick with Christianity, and never lose their faith, were ever actually Christians to begin with, right?
That's like claiming that AA has a 100% success rate, as long as you discount everyone who ever fell off the wagon, because that's not part of following the steps, or that, as long as you never have another cigarette in your life, quitting smoking cold turkey works every time. Such claims do not address the failure of such programs to match everyone's needs, which indicates their flaws, correct? Not everyone buys Christianity for the rest of their lives. Many see it's flaws and move on, often to ways better suited to them. I was one of them, and never been happier.
Stop the Holier Than Thou crap. You are the last person who should be judging who has the right to speak on the topic of Christianity when you are a born-again and most likely only a born-again because it looked good at your parole hearing for when you put others lives at risk. You're not an expert and using your bible to show why you think you are, shows nothing but arrogance and ignorance.
If hell exists, it exists for people like you-not us-we're not the ones who endangered lives!! Think before you spew such moronic nonsense.
The article says nothing about the racist tract, "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," which promulgates this and other anti-semitic tales. Henry Ford was an early distributor of this trash. Modernly, it has been well-distributed by some Muslims, and is taken in some Muslim societies, including by official media, as literal truth, with no understanding much less acknowledgment that its is malicious garbage, with no more credibility than the scribblings of Adolph Hitler. The fact that this tract is printed and sold today, and read more frequently by Arab peoples than elsewhere, is significant background.
On the Jews and Their Lies was written by Martin Luther, and it's pretty much an outline for the Holocaust.
Thank you. It had to be said.
Thank you Akira!
For what, Austin?
for wearing perfume. lol.
I think you are attractive!
isn't it fascinating to wonder................that might be wierd.
That literally made me laugh out loud, and for that, I thank you!
......any time. .)
Theyo quote the Hamas guy as saying "It is a fact, acknowledged by their own books and by historical evidence". I have a strong hunch he means 'the Protocols' when he says 'their own books'.
The authors write, " the most persistent and longest-lived anti-Semitic myth in history, aside from the claim that the Jews killed Jesus....", my biblical scholarship maybe a little fuzzy but didn't the Sanhedrin offer up Jesus to the Roman authorities?
Yes. And Pilate washed his hands of the situation, found Jesus not guilty and told the Jews to do it themselves.
...and Jesus Himself was recorded as saying, "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. ***No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.*** I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
So Christ' crucifixion had nothing at all to do with the initial accusations hurled against him by the Sanhedrin....
A Mel Gibson fan I presume?
lol absolutely not, I'm an African-American male searching for answers, i also happen to be an atheist and I wonder would have been crucified had the sanhedrin not leveled their accusations against him.....i have no opinion either way but i am curious as to what answers my question would provoke......
Marcus; to learn what the Bible really teaches go to jw.org and those people will (at no charge) answer any and all questions truthfully from the Bible. if you are seriously searching for the truth check it out.
I was replying to Topher. They like to blame the Jews for Jesus' death rather than blaming Judas for telling the authorities that Jesus was claiming to be the future king of Israel and Jesus for not being wise enough to deny the claim. He thought he was going to be the king and the strung him up for it. Many years after he died, the fabricated and contradictory story of the resurrection circulated. Fast forward several centuries and the Jews get gassed.
The Romans did the scourging and crucifixion. The religious leaders of the Sanhedrin had brought Jesus to Pilate under false pretenses. When Pilate could find no wrong, he told the leaders so. But, the Sanhedrin was adamant about Jesus being put to death and Pilate, very much aware of his tenuous position in overseeing that part of the Roman Empire, ceremonially washed his hands of having any responsibilities regarding Jesus' death. The Sanhedrin was widely despised (but feared) by the everyday Jew. Christ's death was the result of the Sanhedrin's lies and Pilate's cowardliness.
So the Jews killed Jesus.............?
Fear not that which takes the body but fear that which takes body and soul. The killed Jesus the man and had their prayer answered "let his blood fall on us and our children" and so it was in 70 AD and perhaps ever more.
Would Jesus have willed to die on the cross for the Jew's only?
so then the Jews did not kill Jesus, the sins of the world were redeemed by God who gave his life as a ransom.
Thought so.....
Makes sense.....
they sound like americas birthers
Again, if the charge really was the blasphemy of claiming to be God, all anybody needed to do was gather a crowd together and Jesus would have been stoned to death and everyone involved fled the scene before the Romans even got wind of it. The gospels themselves state that the community would kill violators of the Law, and claiming to be God would have been a clear violation of the Commandments.
It's pretty clear then that Jesus was crucified because it suited the Romans, including Pilate. This would be consistent with Josephus' description of Pilate, which is in direct contradiction with the gospels'. Remember also that the placard placed upon his cross stated that he claimed to be the king of the Jews, which the Romans would have considered an act of insurrection. Turning over the moneychanger tables and being paraded into Jerusalem on a donkey would have also put a target on his back. With the city swelled to many times it's usual population during the festival of freedom from oppression which Passover was, the Romans expected trouble and death with it harshly, as they always did.
ok, that is rationalizing. It is obvious that the reason He died is tied to Genesis. The gospel starts in Genesis.
Genesis 2:17 ►
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve,[d] because she would become the mother of all the living.
21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
but when Christ was resurrected, we were given the gift of eternal life, the blood of the eternal covenant, and we are given the holy spirit, the ability of God to change you from within. So you are healed and given eternal life back.
The fall of man has been healed.
Leviticus 17:11 ►
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Austin, the whole Jesus-sacrifice-atonement-salvation story, the foundation of your idiotic Christian supersti.tions, is actually a giant, steaming pile of bullshit. How is it again that your omnipotent being couldn't do his saving bit without the whole silly Jesus hoopla? And how was Jesus' death a "sacrifice", when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time with less than a snap of his fingers?
Pretty pathetic "god" that you've made for yourself there.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
austin929
"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
If they didn't have the knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, why would God expect them to know that disobeying him was wrong?
Leviticus 17, in context, deals with the kosher law about not eating blood, properly draining the blood of all animals meant to be eaten, and not sacrificing to the other gods anymore. Jesus was crucified, not bled out like some sacrificial animal. There would have been plenty of blood still left in his body. His death would not have fulfilled this requirement for atonement, which makes your attempt to link his death to this passage fail.
Theo said, "I challenge you to quote me as ANYWHERE saying that I supported the holocaust. I DARE you to quote me as saying that."
Ok, here you go (thanks to google, this was surprisingly easy):
"A judge is not being vindictive when he orders the sentence against a criminal. The sentence is given for punishment and for correction, rehabilitation, and repentance."
Here, he is comparing god to a judge and Jews to criminals, deserving of punishment. He is apparently supportive of what he thinks was his god punishing the Jews via the Holocaust.
"They suffered because they violated their covenant with God formed in Deuteronomy 28:15-68."
Again, explaining why the Jews deserved to suffer.
"I can only relate what the Bible has to say, and it tells us that the Jews' hearts are hardened due to their apostasy, and because of their apostasy, God will punish them, until such a time that they repent of their unbelief."
Again, Jews deserved the punishment for not believing Jesus was magical.
So, perhaps Theo never said, "I support the Holocaust", but he has made it very clear that he thinks the Jews brought it on themselves and deserved it. Truly sick how immoral religion can make people.
Wow. That's a lot of reaching. Careful ... you're gonna pull something.
Topher. The Jewish people do not believe that Jesus was their Messiah.
Therefore, using that as a way to justify their being "punished", and "deserved" the Holocaust is ludicrous.
But nobody said that.
Besides, we ALL deserve punishment. We've ALL broken His laws. But God does not will anyone to perish. That's why the Gospel is such good news! Christ took the punishment we all deserve when He went to the cross. He defeated death so that we can live. And not only that, but He imputes His righteousness to us. How cool is THAT?! That means (if you're saved) God not only sees you sinless because of Christ, He sees you as having His righteousness. But there's nothing we can do to get that. It is a gift from God, not by works, so that any man can boast. And we get that by grace alone, through faith alone in Jesus Christ ALONE. Repent of your sins (not just say you are sorry, but turn from those sins and admit that God is right) and trust in Christ to do what He said He could. Then you will be "born again" ... evidenced by a new heart with new desires.
LaBella
Passing strange, when the absurdity of Theo has finished his shift, that Topher shows up, same idiocy different handle!!
Topher
You masochistic freak, if you think you deserve punishment, go for it. Leave the rest of humanity to get by on their own.
I read that blog. I was a part of it, as Akira. And yes, Theo maintained that the Jewish people who perished in the Holocaust did deserve it because of a broken covenant. And I suppose you and him would say that the other 6 million who died was just collateral damage because hey, we're all sinners, right?
I said it that original day and I shall say it again: he may be able to rationalize it using Scripture, but he has lost his empathy in the meantime. And that one can use Scripture to justify any horrific act. Because that's precisely what was done, and it is just nasty, IMO.
Ausphor, no matter who says it, the idea that anyone believes it tells me that they've learned nothing from history and will be doomed to repeat it.
I hope I am not around to see that day. I don't want to be a part of their reality.
" But nobody said that."
Standard. One says it outright, the other denies it was ever said. The dishonesty continues at full throttle.
God is the God of peace, and He gave you the eternal life back, and He has healed and won.
The problem is one I face. what if make an idol out of error? My soul is desolated. The devil has a foothold within me. and I become soul enslaved.
What happens when people become soul enslaved?
It has nothing to do with repeating history. People who repeat history do it because they transgress one step at a time. The soul enslaved transgressors of the new testament bring about death. The devil is the god of death.
People who repeat history with war, are soul enslaved and therefore they are blood thirsty.
Jesus Christ, died for all His enemies. Read the new testament. people don't repeat history, they transgress the New testament. And you see what happens!
Austin, if you have an issue with what I said, then say so.
People who believe as Theo does ignore history and WILL be the type that repeats it.
I'm talking about the Holocaust, in case my point wasn't clear.
based upon the New Testament fact that Christ died for the whole world, the holocaust is no more special than the 2nd war in iraq. Or, any other war. I agree with you! But I think where people lack an understanding of God's character can be seen in the facts of the diaspora.
The main factor here is the fact that this is the age of the Church and not the Old Testament time where the nation Israel was the focus. The amendment to the law in Christ, is the commandment of forgiveness and grace, and patience.
Christ forgives murderers. The natural cause of pre mature death is the glorification of the devil through unbelief and peoples will to punish each other instead of forgiving.
Except Theo bases his opinion on the OT.
I'm not talking about your current opinions concerning the recent wars, because they are not germain to the conversation.
Bush used God to go to war. That's just as bad as what Theo is positing.
I think it is safe to say that the devil will always persecute Israel because they are God's chosen nation. They have a literal place in the kingdom and Christs plan of redemption to come.
So can it be said that God allows Satan as a tool to persecute? Maybe. There are prophetic bible verses pertaining to the Nation Israel dealing with new testament times, and they are simply yet persecuted until Christ returns, aside from those who turn to the savior .
Revelation 3:9 ►
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars–I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
1) Tribulation — God will put the Jewish people through an unparalleled period of tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30), during which two-thirds of the Jews will perish (Zechariah 13:8-9). The purpose will be to soften the hearts of a remnant so that they will accept Jesus as their Messiah.
It sucks. There will be on one hand , the wh.ore that rides the beast ( the world anti chirst system, ) and then they are obliterated by the devils army.
So the devil has a brains washed army persecuting the world, and then he turns around and obliterates his folllowers.....
that is 2 guilty parties.
Austin, you are one sick sick puppy. Seek help. Find a non-religious psychologist to try to undo whatever it is your parents did to you.
I'm honestly not sure where you think I'm reaching? Or perhaps you were referring to Theo as reaching to justify the Holocaust based on the bible? Please elaborate.
topher
What do you think will happen to any Jews who refuse to convert when Jesus supposedly returns?
Kudlac, the same thing that happens to you if you don't repent.
Austin: You didn't answer the question...could It be that you don't have an honest answer?
Austin, as the Jewish do not believe Jesus is their Messiah, that point is entirely moot.
unfortunately there will be and are people who refuse to find Christ as Lord, as He claims to be. How can the point be moot Bella?
They will be permanently desolated in soul. Jehovah Shammah The Lord is There
"Convert or die."
Gee, where have we heard that before?
Austin, they don't believe, based on their own book that their Messiah has appeared yet.
Israel was a God's vehicle for interveining and saving mankind's eternal spirit.
I don't remember anything about convert or die.
austin929
If you read the NT literally, Jesus will return only to save the Jews, once they cry out to him in acknowledgement that he was the messiah, correct?
What makes Christians believe that they will reap any benefit from the return of the Jewish messiah?
You will note that he is very selective in is bible exegesis – never quoting the Apostle Paul's remark, "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer..." nor either "But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.... For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."
I've never known anyone who uses quotes from the bible to backup an argument to be anything other than selective. You can find some passage in that silly, contradictory book to support just about anything.
Most of the time you can use it to support both sides of the same arguement.
if Jews use the blood of non-Jewish children to make matzo, what today's muslims are doing? Sending young boys with suicide bombs, since when they started carrying about young children?.
Don't confuse them with facts, username1, they're so used to lies that they wouldn't recognize the truth.
Writing a report and listening to the one... the only... the great... THE Bob Marley...
No, woman, no cry;
No, woman, no cry. Eh, yeah!
A little darlin', don't shed no tears:
No, woman, no cry. Eh!
Rastafarians aren't True Scotsmen!
Bob Marley is a heretic and a heathen! Even though his music seems to be about peace, love and togetherness, his songs are the Devil's music.
You can clearly hear Satan's voice commanding children to kill their parents when you play "One Love" backwards.
Also, his song "Jammin'" has been used as the soundtrack to many a Satanic ritual, including the infliction of grievous self-harm.
http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/scissors/
Good thing Løki doesn't believe in Satan... LOL
Preacherman, don't tell me,
Heaven is under the earth.
I know you don't know
What life is really worth.
It's not all that glitters is gold;
'Alf the story has never been told:
So now you see the light, eh!
Stand up for your rights. Come on!
Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!
Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!
Great to see someone who appreciates Robert Nestor Marley. This is dedicated to you *smile*.
Mercy on judgment, Lord
Mercy on judgment, Lord
Mercy on judgment, Lord
Ohh, along that day, sad day
Downpressor man, where you gonna run to?
Tell me, downpressor man, where you gonna run to?
Downpressor man, where you gonna run to?
Ohh, along that day, along that day
You run to the rocks, rocks will be melting, man
When you run to the rocks, the rocks will be melting, so run
When you run to the rocks, rocks will be melting
Ohh, along that day, sad day for you
My favorite line from Marley is:
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.
Although, I think he may have been quoting/paraphrasing Marcus Garvey.
Just as ridiculous as Catholic Christians claiming that Jesus insti'tuted the "eucharist", (taken by Saul of Tarsus straight from the Greek "thanksgiving mysteries") as the ingestion of his actual flesh and blood. NO JEW would ever have ANYTHING to do with blood. It was an abomination to even tough it, much less drink it.
tough = touch
You realize Christians don't drink blood, right?
Neither do the Jewish. And this article is predicated on the lie that they do.
And you realize that Catholics don't drink blood either, correct?
They drink make-believe blood from a make-believe god. It's still archaic, morbid, and just plain wacky.
Topher
Yes they do!
They are Vampires.
they drink blood and they like it.
It's not actual blood, but Catholics still believe that it's Jesus' blood nonetheless. After all, if God can sacrifice himself, to himself, and still have it mean something, then he can "transubstantiate" wine just as easy, right?
Topher,
You realize that symbolic blood is hardly any better, right?
Symbolic blood isn't so bad. The red of the Red Cross symbolizes blood, right?
No one at the Red Cross is drinking symbolic blood are they?
Point taken.
That's not what billions of Catholics say.
Catholic sbelieve that transubstantiation actually changes wine into the blood of Jesus, and they drink it every day.
If you believe in a middle eastern sky god and think that he wants you to kill people who don't worship him or want's you to live in certain area, clearly you will believe about anything...
Or nothing about anyone? A Jewish group could behead Christians live on TV and Obama could dance around their corpses and you people wouldn't believe it so why is that any different than this Hamas clown? LOL all of you have serious issues.
The Teaparty stupid is strong in you...
"Squirrel!"
Sigh... troll.
Is that tinfoil in your hat?
This doesn't sound any more outrageous than the daily claims the right wing, including currently sitting members of congress, make against Obama. Go to rightwingwatch org and you'll see what I mean (plus you'll get a good belly laugh).
Or conservapedia.
That site is funnier than The Onion by far, especially their project to re-write the Bible so as to remove it's "liberal bias" – because everybody knows Christ would never use a pinko, commie word like "comrade", right? Jesus was a free market capitalist! I'm sure there's something about trickle down economics in the Sermon on the Mount....
I had never heard of conservapedia, it would be amusing if people didn't honestly believe that stuff.
There's a reason you haven't heard of it.
Never heard of that one and I just went there. At first, I thought it was some kind of outlandish mockery, then I realized it was for real. All I can say is HOLY S.... No wonder America is so screwed. We are truly the land of the ignorant.
The best thing I stumbled across so far says that the Theory of Relativity is liberal claptrap.
Well, my brothers, sisters aunts, uncles, mother, father, and cousins all have theories, relatively speaking.
Actually, a good Onion article would be a report on how the Onion itself intends suing Conservapedia for copyright infringement.
The Onion Announces Plans to Sue Conservapedia for Copyright Infringement.
The popular satirical internet publication, the Onion, today announced that it had insti.tuted a copyright infringement lawsuit against the conservative news and information site, “Conservapedia.” The lawsuit alleges that the site misappropriated the Onion’s proprietary idea of presenting unbelievable and comically ridiculous stories under the guise of being real news.
“It is obvious that this site is satirical,” said Pat Richards, the Onion’s General Counsel, “there is no way anybody could take the material on that site seriously. We at the Onion invented this idea and will not sit back and watch it be stolen from us.”
Conservapedia, which publishes article such as “A 10,000 year old Earth – The Fossils Say Yes,” “Causes of Ho.mose.xuality – Moral Breakdown” and “E=MC2 – A Lie” responded that its site was totally serious and was intended to provide readers with a fair and balanced view of the World.
“We intend to fully defend this lawsuit. Our news articles are factual and well researched,” asserted its founder Rex Middleton. This response seemed to confuse the Onion’s lawyers, who didn’t know if Middleton was serious or still “in costume” and being satirical with his response.”
Fox News further complicated the issue by reporting on the lawsuit and defending the Conservapedia site as legitimate. The Onion did not know whether to join Fox News to the lawsuit for also stealing it’s copyrighted ironic news idea or not.
The lawsuit continues.
Colin
Awesome! Once again you hit it out of the park with your razor sharp wit. Well Done!
Thanks for the kind words.
Lol.
Unfortunately, Conservipedia isn't a satire, although it does read like it should be.
The absurdity of the charge, which is so apparent that the Hamas spokesman must know it is a lie, is that religious Muslims are permitted to eat kosher meat as it is considered halal. Both Jews and Muslims abhor the consumption of blood, so, while Christians can produce and consume blood sausage or blood pudding, Jews and Muslims cannot. During the production of meat, salt is employed to remove the vestiges of blood. Knowing that, the charge of adding human blood to anything consumed is pure ignorance by a Christian and an outright fabrication by a Jew or a Muslim.
You can't let facts get in the way of bigotry!
Morcilla – one of the great joys of life