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'Dead Man Walking' nun: 'Botched' executions unmask a botched system
Sister Helen Prejean is a Roman Catholic nun and a leading advocate for the abolition of the death penalty.
August 6th, 2014
12:55 PM ET

'Dead Man Walking' nun: 'Botched' executions unmask a botched system

By Moni Basu, CNN

New Orleans, Louisiana (CNN) - Sister Helen Prejean blasts the air-conditioner in her champagne-colored Toyota Corolla, the back bumper held up with duct tape. It's clear why friends insist on driving when they are with her. She could rival NASCAR's Danica Patrick on the gas pedal. Age - she turned 75 this year - hasn't slowed her down.

She was weaving all over Interstate 10 when police stopped her one time. Turned out she was reading while driving. The officer let her go when he discovered who she was: "I'll go straight to hell if I ticket a nun," he said.

He made her promise she would never do that again. So now she depends on iPhone's Siri for driving directions and making phone calls. She also likes to play Plants vs. Zombies (not while in motion, of course) even though the violent nature of the game goes against her Christian principles.

"It's OK," she says. "The zombies are already dead."

On this day in late July, Prejean is nearing Louisiana State Penitentiary, otherwise known as Angola, for the post office that serves it. She's been here so many times the warden no longer subjects her to the protocol for visitors.

FULL STORY
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Catholic Church • Christianity • Death

soundoff (439 Responses)
  1. Løki

    Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Halloween...
    I guess they don't appreciate random people coming up to their doors...

    August 8, 2014 at 1:01 pm |
    • noahsdadtopher

      I LOVE Halloween. Can't wait to go costume shopping for my son.

      August 8, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        You can choose which make-believe character to send him out as : Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Noah, Adam, Eve, Joshua. Take your pick.

        August 8, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Well, then, why not go for the grand-daddy of them all ... the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

          August 8, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • Alias

          Topher
          Are you finally acknowledging that they are all the same?
          I never thought I'd see the day your sanity returned.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Uh ... no.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • Doris

          You and your wife could dress up too. Maybe you could go as Joan Rivers and Rick Santorum. Though, you'll need a broomstick and a – actually what do warlocks carry with them – I forget.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:37 pm |
        • noahsdadtopher

          Why don't you like Joan Rivers?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • ausphor

          Topher
          What are you going to do when Noah's bag of goodies contains, the watchtower, Vedas, Islamic propaganda, native American creation myth stories, etc.? Will you save all that stuff and read them to your son when he is old enough? Be honest now. Yesterday someone suggested that you have a pair of prosthetic hands because you chopped them off for all the sinning you have admitted committing, is that true? (In Mathew 9:43) gods inerrant words you must follow, LOL.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • Doris

          Any more, I put her right up there with Ann Coulter whose message to the American doctor who contracted Ebola from helping patients in Africa: that was "idiotic!"

          When asked about the civilian deaths in Gaza, Joan had little sympathy:

          "You're dead, you deserve to be dead. You started it. You started it. Don't you dare make me feel sad about that,"

          The Huffington Post reports that "The TV personality lifted her hands to her cheeks in mock outrage when a TMZ reporter brought up that nearly 2,000 Palestinians have been killed since the Israel Defense Forces launched Operation Protective Edge a month ago.
          'Oh my God! Tell that to the people in Hiroshima,' she said. 'When you declare war, you declare war. They started it. We now don't count who's dead.'

          After the reporter reiterated his point about the overwhelming number of civilian casualties in the conflict, Rivers countered that the Israeli military told them about impending attacks — and it's their fault for not heeding the warnings.
          'They were told to get out. They didn't get out. You don't get out, you are an idiot. At least the ones that were killed were the ones with very low IQs,' she said."

          Hmm let's see, the Israeli Army ordered civilians to leave their homes and go to shelters that they subsequently intentionally bombed. Somehow that doesn't quite fit with Ms. Rivers' description....

          Yep – a witch.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
        • Doris

          Correction: the quote above regarding Joan Rivers was not from Huffington Post, but from the NY Daily News with the headling: "Joan Rivers in hot water for saying Palestinian civilians 'deserve to be dead'".

          August 8, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • Doris

          And that should have been headline, not "headling".

          August 8, 2014 at 2:09 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          I'm going as President Obama this year.

          I'm going to dress as a duck and walk around with crutches and tell everybody that they can keep their candy if they like it, then when their backs are turned I'm going to steal it all from them and tell them it was their fault because their candy wasn't good enough.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:38 pm |
        • Alias

          Theo
          What the hell was that? Other than a bigoted attempt to insult the president?

          August 8, 2014 at 2:41 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          What the Sheol was that? Other than a bigoted attempt to insult the president?
          -------------------
          The conversation I was commenting on was talking about Halloween.
          And I'm just exercising my freedom of speech.

          Bigoted? Nah. Calling him a liar? Yeah...

          August 8, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Well Theo if he didn't have republitards like you pushing him up against a wall at every move, he might be able to keep up with satisfying everyone but as long as he has the under-educated, bigoted fools doing everything in their power to make him fail he'll never accomplish much.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:52 pm |
        • ausphor

          No Theo, you are a bigot, as bad as Ranier, you would make a great couple of degenerates.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Well Theo if he didn't have republitards like you
          ------------------
          I'm not a republitard. I'm not a democrap either. I am a Christian. And I vote according to my conscience.

          he might be able to keep up with satisfying everyone
          -------------------
          He doesn't have to satisfy everyone. But he doesn't have to lie either.

          but as long as he has the under-educated, bigoted fools doing everything in their power to make him fail he'll never accomplish much.
          ----------------------
          If you're referring to republicans as being "under-educated, bigoted fools" then you must REALLY think Nancy Pelosi is gone...

          August 8, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          Go as Hyperbole.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:05 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Theo,
          Go as Hyperbole.
          --------------–
          Actually, I used to be an architect, so my other choice was to go as a Flying But.tress. I would wear a Corinthian Capital as a hat and put on a red cape and pretend to be flying everywhere.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:14 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "Bigoted? Nah. Calling him a liar? Yeah..."

          I love how so many seemed just fine with a president lying us into an unfunded war overseas where we have dumped trillions of dollars into the sand and can't hope to see a penny in return, but now they can't seem to even speak they are so furious over a president who said "If you like your plan you can keep it" which didn't turn out to be true for 40% of the insureds. The vast majority, of which I am one, love the ACA once we got on it and I just had a new baby last Friday and I couldn't be happier with how our health care plan is working compared to 5 years ago when I had my first daughter. Others, who often are not effected at all, just love to wallow in the rhetoric without any actual claims against the president much like when asked what Boehner would sue the president over he said "We'll figure that out later..."

          August 8, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          You'd have to do way too much explaining...unless you wore a prosthetic booty, people might take you for a medieval king, not that there's anything wrong with that.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:40 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          neverbeenhappieratheist,
          Here's the problem I have. Because I'm on what they consider a "cadillac plan" in a few years, there's going to be taxes added onto my health care plan that will make it more expensive than what I pay for my mortgage.

          Apparently, we must legally have health care, we're just not allowed to have GOOD health care, or we get punished for it.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:55 pm |
        • ausphor

          Theo
          Go out as a giant anus, you won't even need a costume, Tricky Dicky or Obama, tough choice!!!

          August 8, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Theo
          Go out as a giant anus
          ----------------
          You could set yourself on fire, and when people ask what you're doing you'd say "Atheist's Preview!"

          August 8, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
        • ausphor

          Theo
          That would be Deist preview, but of course the nonsense that your delusion predicts is just plain stupid. Star stuff, that is what you are and will return to being, no gods, no BS.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:08 pm |
        • joey3467

          Wait a minute, there are people who like Joan Rivers?

          August 8, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          Theo, then I am sorry for you being one of the 5% who is negatively effected by the ACA, I am one of the 95% it is helping and without it I likely couldn't afford to cover my whole family as happened three years ago when the rates with Blue Cross had been going up almost 20% per year for the last 5 years and my wife and first child went uninsured for about 6 months till my wife started working again. Now with another baby born this last Friday I wouldn't want to think about what our rate would be on that same plan now when with just three of us it was closing in on $800 a month after my work contribution. Now we pay just under $400 a month for better coverage for four of us and yes, there is a tax subsidy we qualify for which saves us nearly $200 a month. When I hear the Cadillac plan complainers whine about how they got screwed I think about all the other family's out there like mine and hope more of us speak out because it seems like the 5% whiners get the lions share of the media time which is why it seems there are so many against it when there aren't and in reality it meant millions and millions more Americans could afford insurance in a private market. It's the plan the republicans thought up in the '90s and now they can't support it because they don't want democrats or this president to get "a win" on anything. The DOW has never been higher, unemployment numbers have come down and keep coming down, illegal immigration is lower than it has been in years and the new wave of child immigrants are coming in based on a law signed by GW Bush in 2008, gun sales have never been higher as there have been no new gun restrictions, rather a bunch of laws opening up carry laws in many states and state parks have passed, but if you listen to conservative radio for 5 minutes you would think the government is going house to house to collect any sharp objects to neuter a powerless people to be ruled forever by a combat booted Muslim terrorist from Kenya with his new drone air force. It is as insane as those who believe in that disgusting racist rhetoric, but it is just a metaphor for a certain portion of conservative white male Americans who feel they are losing their control, the old boys club is crumbling and they thrash about and gnash their teeth as they see "their" country changing color. Just remember, if you can't beat 'um, join 'um, and the progressive liberal majority who voted this president to two terms always has their arms open as they are inclusive and know that the only thing we cannot tolerate is intolerance. That is the future of America so it's just a matter of when you want to jump on.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
    • Alias

      I am so stealing this.
      Thanks Loki

      August 8, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
      • Løki

        As much as I'd like to claim this... I believe Will Ferrell gets the credit for that joke

        August 8, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          I have a witness co-worker I asked about this and he said he and his family would turn all the lights out and hide every Halloween. I thought the irony was quite humorous.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:29 pm |
  2. Reality

    And Theo continues his th-umping of the bible but until he educates himself on the historical Jesus, his comments are moot. Details previously given.

    August 8, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
    • SeaVik

      I'm a little late to the conversation, but let me take a wild guess. Theo is for the death penalty?

      August 8, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
      • Theo Phileo

        Actually, I went fishing for Red Herrings while walking along Rabbit Trails... I never even said ANYTHING about the death penalty!

        August 8, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • Alias

          So why not take a more mature approach for a change and just tell us what you think.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • SeaVik

          My fault for assuming you would have commented on the subject at some point. Not that I'm not guilty of the same from time to time...

          So, what DO you think?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Basically, although God alone has the power and the right to either pardon sins or to deliver ultimate justice, man, through government, is given the responsibility under the sun to restrain evil and to protect its citizens from it (Romans 13).

          As a part of that, although we see in scripture that it is not given as a punishment in every instance if the one guilty of the crime will repent (such as with David), where capital punishment is deemed necessary to the unregenerate and unrepentant, it should never be taken lightly as it is a severe, graphic, and sober means to deter evil.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:11 pm |
        • dandintac

          Is that a yes?

          August 9, 2014 at 1:06 am |
  3. Doris

    How can Americans promote tolerance against dangerous extremism in the world today when there is so much intolerance, misinformation and just plain craziness that spews from pulpits, radio, TV and websites that represent Christian organizations today?

    When we hear of Ugandans trying to pass laws to kill gays; when we hear Liberian church leaders today claiming the deadly outbreak of Ebola is a plague sent by God for 'hom.ose.xualism', why should we be surprised given the extremism we can so easily tune in or read each day?

    Case in point: Rick Wiles. He just update his website trunews.com with a message that says he soon hopes to add a TV station. I won't copy his whole bio page (http://www.trunews.com/rick-wiles/), but it says there that one of his first big jobs was marketing manager for CBN, and from there was hired to Trinity Broadcasting Network. It says he "resigned from TBN in 1998 after receiving a dramatic call from God to full time ministry".

    The Huffington Post reports (8/7/14) that "Trunews talk show host Rick Wiles took to his radio program this week to spout off:

    'Now this Ebola epidemic can become a global pandemic and that’s another name for plague. It may be the great atti.tude adjustment that I believe is coming. Ebola could solve America’s problems with atheism, hom.ose.xuality, se.xual promiscuity, po.rnography and abortion. If Ebola becomes a global plague, you better make sure the blood of Jesus is upon you, you better make sure you have been marked by the angels so that you are protected by God. If not, you may be a candidate to meet the Grim Reaper.'

    (You may remember Wiles having stated that "Miley Cyrus sold her soul to Satan and had se.x with a demon in exchange for fame.")

    ====

    "Whenever... preachers, instead of a lesson in religion, put [their congregation] off with a discourse on the Copernican system, on chemical affinities, on the construction of government, or the characters or conduct of those administering it, it is a breach of contract, depriving their audience of the kind of service for which they are salaried, and giving them, instead of it, what they did not want, or, if wanted, would rather seek from better sources in that particular art of science." –Thomas Jefferson

    August 8, 2014 at 11:33 am |
    • LaBella

      Wow. Dude sounds unbalanced.
      Such a pity that this guy isn't concerned with MERS, or the cholera in Haiti, or whatever...

      But it makes for good "sin"-conflated "justice".

      August 8, 2014 at 11:48 am |
  4. austin929

    Gods expression for the entire world was that He the creator redeemer died for all His enemies.

    Christ is the savior of all the world.

    You have been exalted.

    August 8, 2014 at 9:18 am |
    • jhg45

      God died? who resurrected him?

      August 8, 2014 at 9:35 am |
      • Theo Phileo

        During the crucifixion, Jesus died in the flesh, but his deity was alive – “alive in the spirit” (a spirit cannot die, therefore when a verse says “raise from the dead” it can only refer to a bodily resurrection) Furthermore, Jesus did go to the pit – the place of bound demons, not to suffer, but to proclaim His victory over sin, hell, demons, and Satan.

        1 Peter 3:18-20 – For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

        August 8, 2014 at 10:18 am |
        • jhg45

          first he was impaled on a stake, or pole Gr.stauros never a cross; (a pagan symbol) next he did not go to any "helfirel" it was merely the grave Gr.hades Heb.sheol. he, Jesus died and was resurrected by his Father, The Almighty God and Creator who never dies. you have been misled by the God dishonoring doctrine of the trinity and hellfire. (both of which originated in Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, etc.) please do more research on these subjects and you will find many teachings in the churches and by mistranslations have caused so many to leave the religions that demand money from their followers and pay for their priests and ministers when Jesus taught contrary. if you really want to learn what the Bible really teaches go to jw.org and they will teach you "at no charge" the true knowledge that leads to eternal life.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:04 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          first he was impaled on a stake, or pole Gr.stauros never a cross; (a pagan symbol)
          --------------–
          So, you're reading the "New World Translation" then? Yeah, they translate it as "torture stake" but that's only because Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified. In fact, the word "stauros" means "a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment)" from Strong's Greek Lexicon. We know that Jesus was crucified on a cross however, because the Bible tells us that as He walked to the cross, He was forced to carry His own patibulum.

          next he did not go to any "helfirel" it was merely the grave Gr.hades Heb.sheol.
          ------------------
          I didn't say "hellfire." I said "pit." And yeah, Sheol is right, for no one is currently in hell at the moment, except for a select number of demons... Those bound for the final hellfire will not be thrown in until after the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20:11-15. Until then, souls are kept in torment in Sheol to await their final judgment. (scriptures available on request)

          you have been misled by the God dishonoring doctrine of the trinity and hellfire. (both of which originated in Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, etc.)
          -----------------
          Ahhh, this settles it. You have been raised in the Jehovah's Witness traditions. I could quote dozens of scriptures on the doctrine of the trinity, and of hell, but instead, for the sake of brevity I will suggest you read John Owen's "A Brief Declaration and Vindication of the Doctrine of the Trinity." I might also recommend some sermons by Jonathan Edwards, specifically "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God," "God's Awful Judgment," "Future Punishment of the Wicked," "The Eternity of Hell Torments," and "Wrath upon the Wicked to the Uttermost," to name a few.

          please do more research on these subjects and you will find many teachings in the churches and by mistranslations have caused so many to leave the religions that demand money from their followers and pay for their priests and ministers when Jesus taught contrary. if you really want to learn what the Bible really teaches go to jw.org and they will teach you "at no charge" the true knowledge that leads to eternal life.
          --------------------
          This is clear enough...

          Revelation 20:11-15 – Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:24 am |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          You said, "[...]the place of bound demons, not to suffer, but to proclaim His victory over sin, hell, demons, and Satan."
          Is the out not hell, then? Or is it another location?

          August 8, 2014 at 11:30 am |
        • LaBella

          Out=pit.
          DYAC.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:33 am |
        • kevinite

          So Theo,

          You said that there is no one in Hell at the moment, but the scripture you quoted from Revelations refers to prior to the whole bit of being cast into lake of fire was that Hades (Hell) gave up it's dead, so how is it then that there is no one in Hell at the moment?

          August 8, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          You said, "[...]the place of bound demons, not to suffer, but to proclaim His victory over sin, hell, demons, and Satan."
          Is the out not hell, then? Or is it another location?
          -----------------------
          It gets confusing because of the interchangeability of the English words for "hell."

          To be specific, the place of bound demons is referred to in the Bible as "the Abyss." The Abyss is not Hell, it is the place of bound demons (Luke 8:31, 2 Peter 2:4) Peter borrows the word from Greek mythology for hell, “Tartarus.” The Greeks taught that Tartarus was a place lower than Hades reserved for the most wicked of human beings, gods, and demons. The Jews eventually came to use this term to describe the place where fallen angels were sent. This, like Hades, is only a temporary state when it will finally be thrown into hell at the final judgment.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:44 am |
        • Doris

          "..2 Peter 2:4"

          Of course it's not likely that's from the Apostle Peter according to most NT scholars today.....

          August 8, 2014 at 11:49 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          The Bible speaks of "hell" in various terms: "Abyss," "Lake of Fire," "Hades," "Sheol," "Hell." And Jonathan Edwards has done some wonderful writing on the topic if anyone is curious.

          Punishment of the wicked is described throughout scripture as:

          1)Eternal fire (Psalm 11:6, Matthew 5:22, Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50, Matthew 18:7-9, Matthew 25:41, Jude 7)
          Isaiah 30:30,33 – Isaiah speaks of Topheth in the valley of Hinnom, where before it became Gehenna – the burning trash dump outside Jerusalem – it was the place of pagan worship where people burned alive their own children to their false god, Molech (2 Chronicles 28:3, 2 Chronicles 33:6, Jeremiah 7:31, Jeremiah 19:2-6) and God uses this as an illustration of a place where God will burn alive the unrighteous

          2)Eternal punishment (Isaiah 66:24, Matthew 25:30, 46, Daniel 12:2, John 5:29)

          3)Unquenchable fire (Deuteronomy 32:22, Matthew 3:12, Mark 9:43-49)

          4)Darkness, Blackness (Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, Matthew 25:30, 2 Peter 2:17, Jude 7, Jude 13)

          5)Disgrace and everlasting shame and contempt (Daniel 12:2)

          6)Banishment, Separation (Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, Luke 13:28)

          7)Sorrow and Anger “Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Luke 13:28, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 13:42,50, Matthew 22:13, Matthew 24:51, Matthew 25:30, Revelation 18:15)

          8)A place where “their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:44-49)

          9)A place of endless “torments” and “flame” (Luke 16:23-28)

          10)Eternal destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:5-10) NOTE: “destruction” means “ruin” and does not involve annihilation, but rather a new state of conscious being which is significantly worse than the first (Revelation 20:14-15) This is described as the absence of God’s presence and glory (Matthew 8:12, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 22:13, Matthew 25:30, Luke 16:24-26)

          11)A place of everlasting torment with “fire and brimstone” where “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever” (Revelation 14:9-11)

          12)Lake of fire and brimstone where the wicked are tormented day and night forever and ever (Revelation 20:10)

          August 8, 2014 at 11:49 am |
        • Doris

          That's OK, Theo – an episode here and there of Supernatural is a bit more entertaining, and probably just as valid.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:52 am |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          So the pit is, effectively, a holding cell, and hell is a different location?

          August 8, 2014 at 11:52 am |
        • Doris

          I do wonder. Like when that well-educated odd Christian sect in Chile sacrificed that baby a few years ago to a bonfire, claiming that it was an antichrist – which room did it go to first?

          August 8, 2014 at 11:56 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          So the pit is, effectively, a holding cell, and hell is a different location?
          ------------------–
          In the KJV, the word "Sheol" is translated into “hell” 31 times, it is translated “the grave” 31 times, and 3 times it is translated into “the pit.” And when we read Revelation 20, we see that where the wicked are now is not where they will be. And that makes sense, since the final judgement has not yet occurred, so no full judgment can yet be rendered upon those who are deserving of God's justice.

          It's like this. Larry Flynt has corrupted many people through the empire that he has created. And long after he is dead, the corruption that he began will continue to currupt men. And at the end of time, when all has been said and done, God will apply the guilt of all of that corruption onto him to be punished. Until then, no proper punishment can be rendered, for their is still guilt accruing to him. And for that, he, and everyone else whose influence continues long after they die, will remain confined in a torment until the final judgment, when justice will be made complete.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:59 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Doris,
          You need to read "Safe in the Arms of God," by John MacArthur. It's a book that gives the Biblical explanation of what happens to babies who die. (Hint, it's in the ti.tle of the book)

          August 8, 2014 at 12:02 pm |
        • Doris

          I am aware of that concept from my upbringing, Theo. I wonder if some of the people who sacrificed the baby thought to themselves that in case they made a mistake, all is taken care of by their god after anyway, so no worries...

          August 8, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • kevinite

          So the KJV of Revelations 20 refers to Sheol as "Hell" when Hell gives up it's dead prior to the whole casting into the lake of fire. So, then that means that "Hell" and "the Pit" refers to the same place? and if so then why would you say then that there is no one in Hell at the moment?

          August 8, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
        • jhg45

          theo you can not have it both ways either Jesus is the Son of God or God. He said He was The Son of God. please do not be misled but check out these vss. Jer. 7:31, Eccl. 9:5-10 Jehovah would never burn people and the dead are conscious of nothing. Jesus never went to a burning hell and neither has anyone else. the pit or Gehenna where the final destroyed will be is just that ,"the second death" from which there is no resurrection. also the Jehovah's Witnesses seem to be growing rapidly by teaching the truth while the other religions of this world are being seen for what they are. beggars and liars.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:11 pm |
        • Løki

          LET's Religiosity Law #10 – If Jesus came back today he would be shot in the head. That's what you do to put down zombies; otherwise they eat your brains.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
        • jhg45

          theo, no I have not been "raised" in the traditions but have been studying their " translation" and have found it most consistent along with many others that back up their teachings. when you find so many that agree it makes sense to check it out while finding so many religions teaching lies and contradictions it does not take long to see why so many are getting out as taught in the Revelation.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:30 pm |
        • kevinite

          So jhg45,

          How would you take it then in regards to Revelations about Hell giving up it's dead or in regards to 1Peter referred to by Theo regarding Jesus declaring himself to the spirits who were killed during the great flood in Noah's day?

          August 8, 2014 at 12:35 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          and if so then why would you say then that there is no one in Hell at the moment?
          ------------------
          "Hell," as in the "Lake of Fire" spoken of in Revelation 20 will only be occupied as the final judgment after the Great White Throne Judgment. As I said, it can be confusing because of how the English renders it.

          John 5:25-29 – "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

          Verse 25 is a statement that announces that the ministry of redemption through Jesus Christ has begun. Those who are dead in their trespasses and sins will hear the word of God, and they will live.

          Matthew 8:22 – Jesus referred to the spiritually dead as “dead”

          Ephesians 2:1 – Paul would later refer to this when he said that we are dead in trespasses and sins…

          The rest of that passage speaks about two resurrections – a resurrection unto life, and a resurrection unto death. Both the righteous and the unrighteous will one day be both bodily and spiritually resurrected, each with a different eternal destiny, and with a body specifically designed for that destiny – one for heaven, and one for hell

          Jesus is the one who raises the dead, as well as the one who judges the dead.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          jhg45,
          The New World Translation is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. They knew that their beliefs contradicted Scripture, so rather than alter their beliefs to conform to Scripture, they altered Scripture to reform to their beliefs.

          Here's an example...
          The original Greek text in John 1:1 reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.”

          The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower's bias is their inconsistent translation technique.

          Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word "theon" occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.”

          Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of "theos" without the indefinite article as "God."

          Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both "God" and "god" in the very same sentence.

          The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:47 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Watchtower teachings alter the fundamental ident.ity of Jesus, the very founder of Christianity. If Jesus was created, formerly existed as an angel, was not God on earth, did not die on a cross, did not physically resurrect from the dead, did not ascend to Heaven, and will not literally return as Lord, then the Jesus of the Watchtower is certainly not the Jesus presented in the Bible. As a result, we must conclude that the teachings of the Watchtower are not Christian as defined by the Bible itself.

          Galatians 1:6-10 – I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:51 pm |
        • jhg45

          Rev.20 is talking about the resurrection during the 1000 year reign of Jesus while satan id bound. as people are raised, they will be judged by what they do during that time without satan and his followers to interrupt. those who do not then want to follow the teachings of Almighty God will end in the lake of fire,(the second death) not hell, from which there is NO resurrection. hell is just the common grave where all those who die in this system go. during the 1000 years all will have a chance to see what was supposed to be before Adam lost it.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
        • kevinite

          Theo,

          The thing is that Revelations 20 also refers to Hell in a state prior to being cast into the lake of fire in which prior to being cast into the lake of fire that Hell delivered up its dead, and you said that there is no one in Hell at the moment, so that doesn't make any sense. So, does Hell hold currently any dead or doesn't it?

          August 8, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          So, does Hell hold currently any dead or doesn't it?
          --------------------–
          Both Hades and Sheol are the same thing: “Hades” is the Greek word used in the New Testament, and “Sheol” is the Hebrew word used 65 times in the Old Testament.

          Sheol must be separated from the idea of the “final hell / lake of fire,” and it must be distinguished from simply “the grave,” meaning “death.”

          Indeed, Sheol / Hades is a form of hell, but since Hades itself will one day be thrown into the lake of fire, (Revelation 20:14) it cannot be the final resting place of the wicked dead. It is instead a place of incarceration where the wicked will await the final day of judgment where God will mead out their final punitive punishment.

          Sheol cannot simply mean “the grave” or “death.” Although our English language has only on word for this, the Hebrews had several, and they had a perfectly good word for simply “the grave,” but it was used very infrequently. The word Sheol however meant more, it certainly includes “the grave,” and yes, it has “death” in its meaning, but it also includes the world of dead men’s spirits.

          Job 26:5-6 – The departed spirits tremble under the waters and their inhabitants. Naked is Sheol before Him, and Abaddon has no covering.

          Isaiah 14:9 – “Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; it arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; it raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
        • jhg45

          theo, I do not know where you get your info about JWs and the W/T but be careful spreading lies. please look into those statements because you have misrepresented a wonderful organization and their God and I just hope you are just parroting what you have heard and not willfully mocking God and his people. do not ask me any more since I will not debate with someone who twists things others say and you are so far off I can not even see where to put you on the road. for those who truly want to learn what the Bible really teaches (the truth) please go to jw.org and see why so many have been so confused for so long. peace, j

          August 8, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          jhg45, Don't like Revelation 20? OK, try these then.

          Matthew 25:46 – "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

          Punishment in hell is defined by the word aionios, which is the word “eternal” or “everlasting.” There are people who would like to redefine that word aionios and say, "Well, it doesn't really mean forever." But if you do that with hell, you've just done it with heaven, because the same word is used to describe both. If there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven.

          And I'll go one beyond that. The same word is used to describe God. And so if there is not an everlasting hell, then there is not an everlasting heaven, nor is there an everlasting God. It is clear that God is eternal; and, therefore, that heaven is eternal, and so is hell.

          “To say that life eternal shall be endless, but that punishment eternal shall come to an end is the height of absurdity”
          Augustine

          Daniel 12:2 – Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

          Luke 16:19-31 – parable of rich man and Lazarus – Hell is torment

          Matthew 13:36-43; 47-51 – Jesus gives 2 parables comparing hell to a furnace of fire “where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Obviously, hell is torment, not destruction – if it was destruction, then there would be silence after they have been thrown in, but as it is, Jesus gives a description of their torment.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:04 pm |
        • kevinite

          So, jh45,

          So there will be no hell even though according to Revelations 20 Hell is thrown into the lake of fire after it gives up it's dead? Also if there is no resurrection for those who are cast into the fire then why does Paul say then that everyone will be resurrected?

          22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
          1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV

          Also again what is your take regarding 1Peter regarding the spirits in prison who were alive during Noah's day?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          who twists things others say and you are so far off I can not even see where to put you on the road.
          -------------------–
          If I've been wrong in what I've said then all you have to do is affirm what the Bible says and I'll be quiet.
          Affirm the following:
          Jesus was never created, but existed forever as God, a part of the Trinity including the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
          He died on the cross
          He physically resurrected from the dead
          He ascended into Heaven
          He will one day return as Lord

          I can back up all of these with literally dozens of scriptures each. If you will confirm the above, then I will be quiet.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
        • kevinite

          Theo
          "Indeed, Sheol / Hades is a form of hell, but since Hades itself will one day be thrown into the lake of fire, (Revelation 20:14) it cannot be the final resting place of the wicked dead. It is instead a place of incarceration where the wicked will await the final day of judgment where God will mead out their final punitive punishment."

          So then Hell is a temporary holding center for the wicked awaiting final judgement? So, then doesn't that mean that there are spirits currently in that temporary holding state or Hell?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:13 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          kevinite,
          I sincerely apologize for the complexity of the subject, and the fact that I may not be explaining things very well. It's just hard, as I've said, because of the simplicity of the English language, and the complexity of Hebrew and Greek. And when we read a single word in English that represents several words in Hebrew and Greek, it's easy to see how confusion almost inevitably follows. For that I am sorry if I've only added to the confusion.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Using the same logic you posted yesterday, anything that exists needs a creator. Which means god and Jesus needed a creator and couldn't have existed forever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting this is logical, I'm just illustrating why it's not.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "His deity didn't die". Hahahaha
          You do know that the Hebrews believed in all sorts of divine beings, none of which were equivalent to Yahweh, right ? There were all sorts of diving beings in their world. You can READ the proceedings of the councils, in which they cooked up the "divinity" of Jesus. It is different in each gospel. They agreed to disagree, when they invented the creed. No Jew would ever claim equivalent status with Yahweh. God had all kinds of "sons". It just meant someone was "righteous". It's all come to mean something FAR different today, tahn it ever did, then.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          kevinite,
          OK, I'll try to oversimplify – if only for myself if it helps no one else...

          Hades – Sheol – Pit – Abyss... All of these words refer to the holding place of the wicked dead and/or fallen angels.

          Lake of Fire... This is the final abode of all the wicked dead that will be filled only after the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:16 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          anything that exists needs a creator
          --------------–
          No, the Law of Causality states that anything that BEGINS TO exist requires a creator.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:18 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          There were hundreds of "Books of Revelation". It was quite the fad. The one we know was VOTED, non-unanimously, AFTER they decided (thanks to a heretic) that they *needed* a *canon of scripture*.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • jhg45

          kevin, you are putting the resurrection before the death. during the 1000 year reign of Jesus, all will be raised for an opportunity of eternal life, at the end of the 1000 years death and hades etc will be tossed into the Lake of fire,(the second death) from where there is no hope. where Jesus preached to the spirits I am not sure what your question is but they do not matter, there future is written and it is not good. just know that the resurrection to the paradise earth,(see Matt.5:5 or Psalms ch.37. ve 9-11 also vs.27-29 ; the meek or righteous will inherit the earth.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • SeaVik

          Aha, nice word play! Just kidding, it's still completely illogical. Please explain how something comes to always have existed?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:20 pm |
        • kevinite

          Theo,
          "Hades – Sheol – Pit – Abyss... All of these words refer to the holding place of the wicked dead and/or fallen angels."

          So then Hell = Hades, Sheol, Pit, and Abyss? If so then doesn't that mean that Hell does currently hold deceased spirits awaiting final judgement?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          You can READ the proceedings of the councils, in which they cooked up the "divinity" of Jesus
          ---------------------
          If you are referring to Church Councils, could you please quote your source.

          And remember, in Biblical Manuscript P72, dating from 175-200AD, and containing the entire text of 1 Peter, 2 Peter, and Jude, in this, we find 2 Peter 1:1 – “…our God and Savior, Jesus Christ…” proving that the deity of Jesus was NOT a construct of Emperor Constantine (Roman Emperor from 306-337) as was proclaimed by Dan Brown in his book “The DaVinci Code,” but rather, this was a central teaching of the disciples from day 1. The deity of Jesus can also be seen in many other Papyri from long before Constantine, such as in P46 (175-200AD) and P66, dating from around 200AD.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          So then Hell = Hades, Sheol, Pit, and Abyss? If so then doesn't that mean that Hell does currently hold deceased spirits awaiting final judgement?
          ------------------
          OK, I see what you're saying... (I need an aspirin now) If you are using the English rendering, then yes. "Hell" (English) is occupied by the wicked dead and fallen angels, until after the Great White Throne Judgment where "Hell" will be thrown into "Hell."

          I think that's clear as mud now... ???

          August 8, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          No, the Law of Causality states that anything that BEGINS TO exist requires a creator.

          Nope. There is no "law of causality".
          "Begins to exist" in the context of the universe, is meaningless, (as Dr. Sean Carroll schooled WL Craig about, in their debate). There is no "begins" in the absence of time. It's slapping rules FROM INSIDE this universe to a situation whoich would have been external, and about which we know nothing. It's an argument from ignorance and a "god of the gaps", for those who NEED cognitive closure, and are intollerant of ambiguity.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • kevinite

          jhg45,

          "during the 1000 year reign of Jesus, all will be raised for an opportunity of eternal life,..."

          If that is the case then why did you say that for those who are cast into the lake of fire that there is "NO RESURRECTION"?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "So then Hell = Hades, Sheol, Pit, and Abyss? If so then doesn't that mean that Hell does currently hold deceased spirits awaiting final judgement?"

          No again, O ignorant one. Shocking you know so little about your own cults. Sheol was not hell. Sheol was where ALL dead "shades" resided. There was no "final judgement" to await. The Hebrews did not believe in immortality, until late in the Apocalyptic Period.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          realbuckyball,
          An honest question... If this universe is ruled by chance, how can there be fixed laws of physics that govern its operation?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:31 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "If you are referring to Church Councils, could you please quote your source."

          That's what I thought. You never read the proceedings of the councils.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:32 pm |
        • kevinite

          jhg45,

          As what Theo stated from 1Peter 3: 18-20 about Jesus visiting the spirits in "prison" who were killed when the great flood occurred. If the decease are not conscious at all then why would Jesus visit those spirits? It would be like visiting a dead crowd sort of speak.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:34 pm |
        • kevinite

          jhg45,

          As what Theo stated from 1Peter 3: 18-20 about Christ visiting those who were killed long before. If the deceased are not conscious at all then why would Christ make the visit? It would be like visiting a dead crowd sort of speak.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • SeaVik

          "If this universe is ruled by chance, how can there be fixed laws of physics that govern its operation?"

          Are you suggesting those things should be mutually exclusive? I don't see any reason why?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Who said the universe was "ruled by chance" ? There are probabilities, which are not zero. That does not mean a deity is operative, (see Chaos Theory). We don't have an answer to "why" to everything. A deity is an answer to nothing. "Creation" is a temporal concept, used in a non-temporal environment. That's meaningless.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:42 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          The Hebrews did not believe in immortality, until late in the Apocalyptic Period.
          ----------------
          I believe that Daniel would take issue with that.
          Daniel 12:13 – But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age

          So would Ezekiel
          Ezekiel 37:11-12 – Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

          God uses the analogy of a bodily resurrection that he might illustrate the national resurrection of his people Israel

          ...And David
          Psalm 16:9-11 – Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices; my flesh also will dwell securely. For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. You will make known to me the path of life; in Your presence is fullness of joy; in Your right hand there are pleasures forever.

          Here, David explains his assurance that he is going to go into Sheol, the grave, but that he is not going to stay there, but that he will go through it and into the presence of God. Not only was this a statement of his own confidence, but it was also a Messianic prophecy predicting the resurrection of Christ

          Should I go on quoting OT passages about eternal life?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • kevinite

          buckyball,

          Where did I say that Sheol was only for the wicked as opposed to say that within Sheol there are certain states of being who are awaiting resurrection and final judgement such as "paradise" and "prison"?

          Also, what makes you think that the Jews didn't believe in the resurrection until late in the Apocalyptic Period?

          26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
          Job 19:26 KJV

          August 8, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "I believe that Daniel would take issue with that."

          Um, no. He wouldn't. Daniel WAS WRITTEN IN the Apocalyptic Period, as any scholar knows. So Thanks for agreeing with me.

          Psalm 39 :
          "Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
          before I depart, and am no more"

          Psalm 115 :
          The dead do not praise the Lord,
          nor do any that go down into silence".

          August 8, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
        • LaBella

          The New World Translation is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. They knew that their beliefs contradicted Scripture, so rather than alter their beliefs to conform to Scripture, they altered Scripture to reform to their beliefs.

          I would posit that the KJV does precisely the same, to conform to the Protestant slant.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:52 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          kevinite,
          Oh, I forgot that Job passage.

          Yeah, Job is the oldest book in the Bible, so if they understood an eternity with God then, then it might be said that they have always understood it.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          I would posit that the KJV does precisely the same, to conform to the Protestant slant.
          -----------------
          I'll be the first to admit that Erasmus didn't do as good a job as he should have, but I hardly think that anyone put a "bent" to what was written, aside from translating the various works according to their local color and idioms. But in light of earlier manuscripts that we now have access to and can compare with, it's not a bad translation.

          Check out Dr. James White's lecture on "The Reliability of the New Testament Texts" on youtube.
          -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuiayuxWwuI

          August 8, 2014 at 1:58 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Daniel WAS WRITTEN IN the Apocalyptic Period, as any scholar knows. So Thanks for agreeing with me
          -----------
          My apologies for misunderstanding you. We had been talking about Revelation (The Apocolypse – literally the unveiling) and for some reason my brain equated the two.

          Would you please tell me then what you feel they believed BEFORE they believed in an eternal afterlife with God, and where that can be found.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:01 pm |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          Naturally, you would say this, as this is the version you use.
          I just used that as an illustration of you doing the same thing to jgh.
          It is the exact same argument you used against him; it is equally as valid.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:10 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Naturally, you would say this, as this is the version you use.
          -----------------–
          Actually, I don't. Everything that I quote from (with rare exceptions) are either from the NASB or the ESV.

          I just used that as an illustration of you doing the same thing to jgh.
          ------------------
          Well, I'm not saying that I am without bias, but when it comes to the difference between say the New American Standard verses the New World Translation, the NASB strictly adhears to the language of the manuscripts, but the NWT deliberately strays from that in order to support a doctrine.

          If the NASB or the ESV has done so, please let me know where.

          It is the exact same argument you used against him; it is equally as valid.
          -------------------
          Once again, only if you can show where the NASB or the ESV strayed from the language of the manuscripts in order to support a belief.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:16 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "Would you please tell me then what you feel they believed BEFORE they believed in an eternal afterlife with God, and where that can be found."

          In scholarly books about the Bible. "Who Wrote the Bible" : Dr. Richard Elliott Freidmann, "How the Bible Became a Book, the Texualization of Ancient Israel" : Dr William Schniedewind. When the Witch of Endor was summoned to conjur the "shade" of Samuel" the shade was annoyed to be disturbed. Shadeswere thought to e in a "dormant" state, and were not to be disturbed. Sheol was NOT where Yahweh was thought ot live with all the divine beings (the "heavenly host'). Immorality in Ancient Israel BEFORE to exile was granted by family continution, ie *having sons". There was no *individual" immortality until AFTER the family groups were disrupted during the Exile, and the idea a "martyr" (being granted "hero" status) arose slowly, and gradually during the Apocalyptic Period, (see the speeches of the 7 sons of Hannah during the Maccabean Period, and the "abomination of desolation). "Fior dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return" was, until AFTER the Exile, what they thought, and immortality was granted by FAMILY "contunation", which is why having sons was so important. "Individual" importance is a cultural change, which modern humans are so used to, (especially in the West) we cannot immage life without it. It was NOT thought of in the same terms, back then.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          BTW, the "resurrection" is impossible to understand without this knowledge, (as Dr. Bart Ehrman points out in his latest book). The idea that Paul had, that Jesus was "raised up", (which is what the Greek words actually mean, not "raised from the dead), (NOT physically, but "granted immortal status" much like we think of "Babe Ruth is an *immortal* baseball player", is the SAME idea. Jesus was a Jewish "martyr" in the Apocalyptic sense, and as such, just like the other Jewish heros, was "granted, (or *raised up* to "immortal" status). It meant NOTHING like what most people think of what it means today. (Alo completely agreed to by Dr. Bernard B. Scott, Tulsa Seminary Professor in his book "The Trouble with Resurrection).

          August 8, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          realbuckyball, are you Jewish?
          When did the idea change from one's continuation through familial means to the idea that there would be a resurrection of the dead that we gleam from Job, Daniel, Ezekiel, and others? And what was the reason for the change?

          August 8, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          I just told you why it changed. The idea of "family" immortality was disrupted. ALL those books you named were written AFTER the Exile. You really have no education about the Bible do you ?

          August 8, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          And no I'm not Jewish. EVERYTHING I learned, I learned from Christian scholars.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:04 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          I just told you why it changed. The idea of "family" immortality was disrupted.
          -----------------–
          No, I read that, it's just wrong.
          And to support your premise, you would have to first prove to me that the book of Job was written after the exile.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          So you prefer the Americanized versions of Protestantism. Okay.
          Same argument applies, whether you'd care to acknowledge it or not.
          Basically, it's all what version of "No True Scotsman" one chooses to play.

          You are convinced your version of the Bible is the correct, inerrant Word of God. Others disagree.
          Whatevs.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • Doris

          LaBella: "So you prefer the Americanized versions of Protestantism."

          I thought Theo was into the Westminster Divinyls.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:27 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Besides, there are pre-exilic writings referring to the resurrection to eternal life with God...

          Hosea 6:1-2 – “Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us. “He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, that we may live before Him.
          Hosea 13:14 – Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from death?

          Paul uses this text in 1 Corinthians 15:55 to celebrate the future resurrection of the church.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          So you prefer the Americanized versions of Protestantism.
          ----------------
          "Americanized?" If you think that there's something wrong with how the NASB or the ESV treats the available manuscripts, then by all means share it.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:34 pm |
        • LaBella

          Theo,
          "Americanized?" If you think that there's something wrong with how the NASB or the ESV treats the available manuscripts, then by all means share it.

          Please point out where I said something is wrong with them.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:54 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Please point out where I said something is wrong with them.
          -----------------
          If you were not implying that they were at least in some part in error by calling them "Americanized" then I apologize.

          August 8, 2014 at 3:57 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          No, I read that, it's just wrong.
          And to support your premise, you would have to first prove to me that the book of Job was written after the exile."

          Of course you THINK "it's just wrong". Unfortunately for you archaeology and scholarship has proven it correct, and we KNOW Job was written as an attempt to make sense of the Exile, and justify it, You really need to take a class sometime. I don't have to prove anything. The works I cited speak of it. You can learn or you can stay deluded. It's not my problem.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:13 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Hosea 6:1-2 – “Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us. “He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, that we may live before Him.
          Hosea 13:14 – Shall I ransom them from the power of ...

          You need to learn about the Bible's use of metaphor and other literary devices. The reason you transliterate into YOUR "presentist" understanding, is because you're conditioned to think only in term that you were taught (by your fundie teachers). They NEVER MEANT that crap to be taken literally and it does not mean what you MAKE it into.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • kevinite

          buckyball,

          Care to actually cite the specific archeological and other scholarly sources to actually back up your claims regarding when the Book of Job was written and that as a result that there is unaminous conclusion that the Book could only be written after the exile? After all, if it's not unaminous then the validity of your conclusions do come into question.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:23 am |
      • LaBella

        So the pit is, effectively, a holding cell, and hell is a different location? Yes or no?

        August 8, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          So the pit is, effectively, a holding cell, and hell is a different location? Yes or no?
          -----------------------
          The Pit, Sheol, Hades, Abyss are all words that act as a "holding cell."

          The "Lake of Fire" (location unknown) as described in Revelation 20 is the final Hell where all of the wicked dead and fallen angels will go after the Great White Throne Judgment.

          All of these words have been translated as "hell" in English.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
        • Alias

          Theo
          Many words have more than one meaning, so it would be appropriate to translate them differently in different passages.
          The Problem that I see is teh obvious bias in translations. Has there ever been a tranlation done by someone who didn't have preconceived ideas at to what the bible meant to say?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Many words have more than one meaning, so it would be appropriate to translate them differently in different passages.
          -----------------
          I agree. Just look at the word English word "love" used in the Bible. (Agape, Phileo, Eros, etc...)

          The Problem that I see is the obvious bias in translations. Has there ever been a tranlation done by someone who didn't have preconceived ideas at to what the bible meant to say?
          ---------------------------
          Probably not. I doubt that there's a non-biased person on the planet actually. But those who honestly translate the text, do so with the task of getting at the Authorial Intent.

          A.W. Pink puts it this way:
          “The scholar has a vitally important task to perform within a carefully prescribed precinct. His task is to guarantee the purity of the text, to get as close as possible to the Word as originally given. He may compare Scripture to Scripture until he has discovered the true meaning of the text, but right there his authority ends. He must never sit in judgment upon what is written. He dare not bring the meaning of the Word before the bar of his reason. He dare not commend or condemn the Word as reasonable or unreasonable, scientific or unscientific. After the meaning is discovered, that meaning judges him; never does he judge it.”

          August 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm |
        • Theo Phileo

          Sorry, "A.W. Tozer" not "Pink"

          August 8, 2014 at 2:06 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      For God so loved the world that He had 1/3 of Himself go through a temporary inconvenience.

      August 8, 2014 at 11:36 am |
      • new-man

        the only one being deceived is you... make no mistake, God is not mocked... no man sows corn and reap peas... you can only reap what you sow friend... so how about planting seeds of life & faith.

        August 8, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
        • Løki

          Your pissant impotent and fictional god will do what he has always done... nothing

          August 8, 2014 at 12:16 pm |
        • new-man

          that's perhaps a fair description of your god.
          However, the great, mighty, powerful and all loving God, full of grace, truth and wisdom, that I know is also gentle and humble.

          Be Blessed.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:34 pm |
        • Løki

          @new-man – typical douche cult response...

          August 8, 2014 at 12:56 pm |
        • new-man

          I see you're stumped.
          Resorting to name-calling is always indicative of a limited vocabulary.

          But anyone who needs wisdom should ask God, whose very nature is to give to everyone without a second thought, without keeping score. Wisdom will certainly be given to those who ask.

          Blessings

          August 8, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • Løki

          Your religious delusions apparently carry over to your perceptions of people... your comments are circular and pointless... you are irreparably religiously brain-dead... so endeth this thread.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Such nonsense. "God died" to appease himself. Right.
      You god is not smart enougth or powerful enough to just say "I forgive you" ?
      If your pathetic deity *had* to die, that means it is subject to, and not master of, Reality.

      August 8, 2014 at 12:31 pm |
      • new-man

        Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

        August 8, 2014 at 12:48 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          It makes no more sense by adding "eneth" to the end.
          It's still crap.

          I see you have no real answer to what I saideth.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:53 pm |
  5. kenmargo

    This may seem off the beaten path, but I believe it's all related.

    I'm sure you've heard about the Prez. authorizing military action in Iraq. You've seen some of the horrific videos of people being slaughtered in their cars and in the streets.

    Notice the weapons of choice? GUNS. In some of the more violent crimes you see in the U.S., what is the common link? GUNS. Palestinians that don't have a pot to p1ss in or window to throw it out of, what is the weapon they love to show off? GUNS. The weapon of choice the group Boko Haram used to kidnap hundreds of women? GUNS.

    Until the WORLD decides to get rid off the menace of GUNS, We'll continue to see slaughter here and abroad. No matter if its serial killers or militants. I've gotten into some heated comments with people on this blog. But I believe we have one thing in common. WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE GUNS. Please support any politician that is willing to ignore the NRA and pass common sense gun control laws. These laws will prevent the killings that result in a death sentences. If your politician in office doesn't currently have the onions to pass reasonable gun laws, let him/her know how you feel.

    August 7, 2014 at 10:22 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Um, I think if human want to perpetrate violence whatever they have to use, they will use. Don't blame the guns. It's the people who use them.

      August 7, 2014 at 11:10 pm |
    • Theo Phileo

      Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened and there was an immediate need to defend yourself and those you love, and there was no possibility for anyone, police or otherwise to intervein on your behalf? That you, yourself had to act in order to save you life?

      I have.

      And until you've been in that situation, I would beg you not to preach against the one device that levels the playing field between a 300 pound man, and a 140 pound woman.

      August 8, 2014 at 8:46 am |
      • Doris

        "..the one device that levels the playing field between a 300 pound man, and a 140 pound woman."

        Oh come on now, Theo. A fresh-roasted chicken should solve that without all that fuss.

        August 8, 2014 at 9:09 am |
      • LaBella

        So you're a 140lb woman, Theo? I thought you were a man all this time.

        August 8, 2014 at 10:55 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          So you're a 140lb woman, Theo? I thought you were a man all this time.
          ----------------
          Ummm, no. I used that illustration to make a point.
          I am a man... At least the last time I checked I was.

          August 8, 2014 at 11:03 am |
        • LaBella

          Oh.....I thought you describing the scenario you had found yourself in. Because that's what it looked like.
          Um......sorry I thought you were a woman? Lol

          August 8, 2014 at 11:08 am |
        • Theo Phileo

          Oh.....I thought you describing the scenario you had found yourself in. Because that's what it looked like.
          ------------------
          My apologies. I see now that's what it looked like, but that was not my intent. I was attaching that as merely an illustration that my brother-in-law, who is a police officer, has used before when he was talking to folks about gun ownership.

          My personal situation was quite different.

          Um......sorry I thought you were a woman? Lol
          --------------–
          That's OK, I've been accused of many things, but being accused of being a woman is a first. *grin*

          August 8, 2014 at 11:30 am |
      • SeaVik

        Theo, are you aware that in those situations, if you are armed there is a much higher chance that you'll end up dead? There's no logical reason any civilian should carry a handgun.

        August 8, 2014 at 1:10 pm |
    • Peaceadvocate2014

      Ken,

      I applauded your effort. There is hope hearing from folks like you.

      August 8, 2014 at 10:18 am |
      • Løki

        said the christian storm-trooper right before they force you to convert or die

        August 8, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Looki,

          A monster created to spread fear and justify their cause. If true, would realize the beauty in the trachings of God.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • Løki

          Your god has nothing to 'trach' me... unless it is to kill, maim and destroy... but then get rewritten as a 1960's hippie peace and love god

          August 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          If my God has nothing to teach you, good for you and enjoy your man toys. I think you can purchase tanks now or drones.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
    • workingcopy12

      Ken,

      While I appreciate your frustration, there is a difference between getting rid of guns and passing reasonable gun control legislation. The former is not possible with the 2nd Amendment, but the later, in limited fashion, can be sensible. But I would be cautious of anyone demanding that we get rid of guns–they're not magically going to disappear, and the knowledge to make them will never go away. So if you outlaw guns, the only only ones owning guns are criminals and the government–like there's a difference?

      August 8, 2014 at 11:14 am |
    • Løki

      Good luck with that pipe dream... I'm not giving up my liberty nor my guns...

      August 8, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
      • Peaceadvocate2014

        Looki,

        You dont have to give up your guns, just dont go shooting your fellow humans. Machismo mentallity is so overrated.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:02 pm |
        • Løki

          Shut up Meg

          August 8, 2014 at 2:21 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Cmon, you could defend your position better than that. Just dont shoot.

          Peace on to you my brother.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:43 pm |
    • Alias

      Yes Ken,
      We need to get rid of all guns so the world can go back to being the nonviolent haven it was before they were invented.
      HAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!

      August 8, 2014 at 1:58 pm |
  6. realbuckyball

    Why is there no CNN story here about the insane Islamists, and their Crimes Against Humanity in Iraq ?

    August 7, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
    • kenmargo

      Iraq has to get in line. Right now the priority is:

      Gaza
      Ukraine
      Soviet Union
      Republicans in congress
      immigrants
      Boko Haram (I bet you forgot them too)

      August 7, 2014 at 4:27 pm |
      • new-man

        there is no peace without the Prince of Peace – Christ Jesus.

        For all this time "man has been given to try his own ways, governments, religions, philosophies, value system, forms of education and methods of trying to solve the world's greatest problems. Man has practiced disobedience to God's command (sin) for all this time. Then he has tried to treat all of the ill effects instead of treating the cause- breaking God's Spiritual Laws. Hard lessons are being learnt. The vast majority, who have never known the precious truth of God, are having to learn that their own solutions simply do not work." (rcg.org)

        August 7, 2014 at 5:46 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Hey you got all the answers. Go to Gaza and tell them exactly the same things you state here. I'm sure they'll be all ears.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
        • new-man

          no, it will fly over their heads the same way it did yours.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          The solution is rather simple...drop all of the religious garbage and maybe then you'll know peace. If you're unable to find peace without imaginary friends, perhaps you and Wilbur (from the blood libel article) should register in the local asylum together.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
        • new-man

          TP,
          I know peace. I have peace. I wish the same were true for most posters here, otherwise their anger, bitterness, & hatred wouldn't be evident.
          I have no idea which "imaginary friends" you're referring to.
          Christianity is not a religion, it's a relationship with the God of the universe, the one who created us to know Him well and intimately.
          God is Spirit and He's Life– nothing imaginary there except to those who are "spiritually dead".

          August 7, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @new man..It's a chance for new customers. You could convert them. Just because I don't believe your nonsense, it doesn't mean they won't. Don't just stop in Gaza. The middle east could use plenty of your christian knowledge. While you're over there, there's a group in Iraq called ISIS. They realllllllly could use some christian love about now.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:10 pm |
        • new-man

          friend,
          you've got to know what the Word says.
          1. we're not called to make converts.
          2. Jesus says – Behold, I am sending you out like sheep in the midst of wolves; be WARY and WISE as serpents, and be innocent (harmless, guileless, and without falsity) as doves.

          Friend, I serve a WISE God, all the wisdom of man is nothing/dung compared to His.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:21 pm |
        • kenmargo

          "we're not called to make converts"

          Why are you talking to us then?

          August 7, 2014 at 6:23 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          I'd rather be spiritually dead than intellectually dead like you.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:27 pm |
        • new-man

          we're (I'm) talking to you about the good news of the gospel of the kingdom of God.
          1. Christ took your place, so you can take His.
          2. Your past, present, and future sins are already forgiven.
          3. When you are born of the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit moves inside you (indwells you) so you can have a relationship with the God of the universe.
          4. You can have the mind of Christ- as Christ is, so are you in this world. You can do all that Jesus did and more because His Holy Spirit lives in you.
          5. Righteousness (a gift from God) is the strongman that bound sin.
          6. You're richly blessed, highly favored and deeply loved by God – all things are possible.
          7. The good news continues –

          August 7, 2014 at 6:31 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          new-man: You ignorant dolt! You can post what you think about your god all night but you're yet to prove it is anything more than the stories of man.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:39 pm |
        • new-man

          TP, this would be actually quite funny if it weren't so sorely ironic. Still, I laugh because I'm not your enemy. but know this –
          only an intellectually dead person would think it's better to be spiritually dead.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:40 pm |
        • new-man

          TP,
          I don't need to convince you of God. You already know who He is though you do "not like to retain God in [your] knowledge.
          He loves you regardless of your outward denial of Him.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:47 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          nm: What an idiotic statement to make!! To claim I know god is like me claiming you know a unicorn. Don't go around LYING and making fallacious claims. I simply don't believe your god exists due to the fact that there is ZERO EV-I-DENCE for it (and your small-minded opinion nor your bible count). You are a gullible fool! I get that you have never made it to school but you really should try to get a basic education, It will help open that closed-ignorant mind of yours.

          August 7, 2014 at 6:57 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @new man.......why listen to me and TP mock and make fun of you. Don't talk to us heathens! Go to the middle east and spread the word of god to people that could use some soul saving! Just make sure they don't give you one of those haircuts that start and stop at the neck!

          August 7, 2014 at 7:11 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Yeah idiot, you go tell THAT to the Christians who were run out of their homes by the believers in the "other" "true god".
          How strange it must be to REQUIRE oneself to understand the entire world in simplistic second-grade terms.

          August 7, 2014 at 8:04 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "1. Christ took your place, so you can take His."

          That alone is enough to dump the entire pile of crap.
          That means their deity is SUBJECT to the way Reality works, and not it's master.

          August 7, 2014 at 8:06 pm |
  7. Rynomite

    The symmetry of a christian nun liking zombies.......Ahhh.

    August 7, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      Which plants work on messiahs?

      August 7, 2014 at 5:06 pm |
      • LaBella

        The Resurrection plant?

        August 7, 2014 at 5:19 pm |
  8. Peaceadvocate2014

    Botched execution.

    Determining whether an execution is botched or not is an evil act. Like saying to a hitman, when you kill somebody make sure its clean not too horrific. But how could you lessen the horror of a horrific act by changing the means. You lessen the horror by not doing it at all.

    Who are we to judge who lives or dies. Obviously, I am against the death penalty so as not to perpetuate evil acts or hatred.

    August 7, 2014 at 1:02 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      It's a question of evil or a WORSE evil. It's a perfectly legitimate question.

      August 7, 2014 at 3:52 pm |
      • kenmargo

        A smooth execution is like a nice funeral. You don't want to be the person honored either way. If the process is as "humane" as the bloodthirsty say it is. Why isn't it televised?

        August 7, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Ken,

          Tv pay per view may happen if there are viewers. Money. Business. You see human thirst for blood in our history. Gladiators to mma figthers.

          Hopefully advocates of peace would prevail.

          August 7, 2014 at 7:30 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Oh trust me, viewers aplenty. I can see sponsership deals from funeral homes. Their slogan, "Don't go out like this, plan ahead"

          August 7, 2014 at 7:36 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          Disturbing thought but a sad possibility.

          August 8, 2014 at 10:56 am |
      • Peaceadvocate2014

        Real,

        It is a legitimate question to folks who accepts killing, justified or not.

        I do acknowlegde that some of these folks commits the most heinous acts, but killing them is not the answer. We should not be the evil we wish to eliminate.

        August 7, 2014 at 7:23 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          I agree. But as long as they're going to do it, they should be required to do it quickly and with not amounts as "torture", (not because they don't deserve it, but because WE ARE are involved in the "doing").

          August 7, 2014 at 11:14 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          In a way it is the best we can do at this time but we can do more.

          Some dont legally use garrote, hanging, electrocution, beheading, stoning anymore. A positive progression of our moral apllications. Like i said, we can do more by addressing killing rather than the killing method.

          August 8, 2014 at 10:40 am |
  9. Alias

    It amuses me that so many people bring abortion into this debate.
    Does someone really have to explain how a child that has never harmed anyone is not the same as a murderer? Why do people continue to suggest they should be treated equally?

    August 7, 2014 at 12:57 pm |
    • MidwestKen

      I think the point being made is if all life is sacred then any killing should be opposed.

      August 7, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
      • Alias

        That is a valid point.
        Unfortunately, it seems to be expressed as if you are part of the pro-life movement you must be anti-execution.

        August 7, 2014 at 5:28 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Alias. Some "pro-life" supporters are anti-execution. It seems to be a logical conclusion and one that the Sister reached.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:52 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Unfortunately, it seems to be expressed as if you are part of the pro-life movement you must be anti-execution."
          -----------------
          Which is the logical conclusion to the argument. How can one be "pro-life" and "pro-death" at the same time?

          If you want the religious argument, it is humans assuming the role of God to take away life – in either case.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
        • MidwestKen

          As Not a GOPer said, if one is simply "pro life" then is seems inconsistent to also favor capital punishment, however if one is merely anti-abortion then they can consistently kill anyone they want.

          August 7, 2014 at 8:01 pm |
        • Alias

          Again: Does someone really have to explain how a child that has never harmed anyone is not the same as a murderer?

          August 8, 2014 at 1:47 pm |
    • Peaceadvocate2014

      Alias,

      How could we be certain 100% of what is in the mind an accused murderer? Or the murderers guilt?

      How do you explain with absolute objectivity to somebody that they should not kill but our judgment is to kill?

      If you are pro-life, you should be anti-death penalty, anti-war, anti-terrorist, anti-killing period. Unfortunately our politicians or ent:ties have stakes thereby picking and choosing what is justified and what is not because it is popular or self serving to get elected or maintain and increase the ent:ties stakes. Greed.

      We are programmed to think in the way you posted because current mainstream media does not provide objectivity because of maybe they want to sell stories or protect their corporate sponsors but these blogs or social media provide different points of view. At times, you'll hear social media is used by terrorist to discredit what is being said.

      August 8, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
      • Alias

        As happen too often in this forum, you are taking something completely out of context.
        The ProLife movement is anti-abortion. Prolife as you are using it means something completely different.
        just because somone wants to protect unborn children, it does not logicly hold that they would hold any particular opinion of the death penalty.

        August 8, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • Peaceadvocate2014

          It is a needed reference for the subject context.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
  10. Alias

    Too many people confuse the issues related to the death penalty.
    One issue, innocent people will be put to death.
    Another issue, the entire system in the USA.
    Another issue, some poeple find it immoral.

    A reasonable discussion will stick to one issue at a time, not mix and confuse them within one rant.

    August 7, 2014 at 10:00 am |
    • Rynomite

      The issue is whether you support or oppose the death penalty. The rest are just various reasons. Why cannot all be discussed at once?

      August 7, 2014 at 1:55 pm |
      • Alias

        If you think the executions need to stop because it is immoral, that is a completely different set of reasons from the executions need to stop because the system is broken.

        August 7, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      You left off the unconst.itutionality of botching the death penalty – it is "cruel and unusual punishment".

      If you can't do it efficiently you can't do it, as this violates the eight amendment.

      August 7, 2014 at 3:19 pm |
      • Alias

        So you're okay with killing people as long as we do it nicely.

        August 7, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Where did I say that?

          August 7, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
        • Alias

          "If you can't do it efficiently you can't do it, as this violates the eight amendment."

          I conclude that you think it is okay if they don't suffer.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:30 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Then you conclude incorrectly. Have you read anything else I have posted on this page?

          All you can conclude from the specific statement in question is the assertion that botched executions are unconst.itutional.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:51 pm |
      • realbuckyball

        "Cruel and unusual" is a sham. ANY death is "unusual" as EVERYONE only dies once. That's pretty "unusual".
        Hanging, firing squads, electric chairs were all once quite "usual" and acceptable. It's all relative.
        The moral question is "should the state be involved in putting citizens to death". It's all about "revenge".
        No penalty can bring about a "state of perfect justice".
        Lock 'em up, and throw away the key. Let the really guilty suffer by knowing they will never be free. Death is an easy way out.

        August 7, 2014 at 4:41 pm |
        • kenmargo

          "ANY death is "unusual" as EVERYONE only dies once."

          If everyone dies, how is death unusual?

          August 7, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          How many times are you going to die ? Is death "usual" for YOU ?

          August 7, 2014 at 5:23 pm |
        • Alias

          It is not always about revenge.
          Some people must be removed from society permanently.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:33 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Maybe I'm not reading or understanding you correctly. Everyone dies. Death can't be unusual then.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:40 pm |
        • kenmargo

          We're not cats. We don't have "nine" lives. You can only die once. If you know someone that's come back, oh never mind. I'm heading towards religion now.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:47 pm |
        • likklehero

          The other unusual thing about the death penalty is that it is the only punishment that cannot be reversed. Things like public shaming cannot be undone either and these types of punishments are not consti.tutional (or should not be). All other penalties that the govt hands down can be undone or made "just" in some fashion.

          August 7, 2014 at 7:27 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          "Some people must be removed from society permanently."

          That's right. And the CHEAPEST easiest way to do that, is lock them up, and throw away the key. Not get involved in endless lagal debates and procedures.

          August 7, 2014 at 11:16 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Death is "unusual" for YOU. You only die once.

          August 7, 2014 at 11:17 pm |
  11. awanderingscot

    Dinosaur: I plan to use punctuated equilibrium to turn this zit into a third eye.
    Catbert: That's not a natural advantage. You'd better stay away from the fitter dinosaurs. – Scott Adams.

    August 7, 2014 at 9:54 am |
    • In Santa We Trust

      And that's why dinosaurs don't have three eyes. Got any evidence for creationism?

      August 7, 2014 at 10:05 am |
    • awanderingscot

      Evolution is the law of policies: Darwin said it, Socrates endorsed it, Cuvier proved it and established it for all time in his paper on 'The Survival of the Fittest.' These are illustrious names, this is a mighty doctrine: nothing can ever remove it from its firm base, nothing dissolve it, but evolution. – Mark Twain

      August 7, 2014 at 10:56 am |
      • Alias

        Twain was one of the greatest humorists ever.
        Too bad you are not familiar with more of his work.

        August 7, 2014 at 12:59 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          really? and you would know this how? it's too bad you have no talent for wit. twit.

          August 7, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
        • Alias

          Very christian response, hypocrite.

          August 7, 2014 at 2:25 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          thanks much hatetheist.

          August 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion–several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste." – Mark Twain "The Lowest Animal"

          August 8, 2014 at 11:52 am |
      • new-man

        aahhhh, the love...
        hi Scot, remember, while you may be dead to self, those still in the world aren't, so you should take it easy on their ego/pride.

        August 7, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
        • realbuckyball

          Snotty "dead to self" ? hahahaha

          August 7, 2014 at 5:25 pm |
        • LaBella

          New-man,
          With all due respect, he has not displayed any characteristics that he is dead to self.

          August 7, 2014 at 8:23 pm |
      • TruthPrevails1

        For someone who about to enter his 20th year of grade 3, do you really think you're qualified to speak of evolution? I mean you are rather intellectually dead after all.

        August 7, 2014 at 5:41 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      By posting anti-evolution rhetoric in a death penalty topic are you trying to conflate evolution and eugenics?

      August 7, 2014 at 3:16 pm |
      • tallulah131

        He's just trolling because he's had a great deal of success on this site.

        August 7, 2014 at 3:19 pm |
      • Alias

        Actually Australia has been used in that discussion as an unintended experiment.

        August 7, 2014 at 3:45 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          In what way?

          August 7, 2014 at 4:57 pm |
        • Alias

          The British Empire once used Australia as a penal colony, i.e. they dumped the criminals there.
          If it were all genetic then their children should not have been able to develope the society they have today.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:35 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          I hate to break it to you but they transported convicts to Georgia first.

          They had to send the transported convicts to Australia because after 1783, Georgia wouldn't take them any more.

          It's hardly eugenics. It's not like the number of convicts sentenced to transportation made a dent in the English lower classes. Before transportation, the same people were being hanged for exactly the same crimes. So if anything, transportation was less an exercise in eugenics than the prior solution of the gallows.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:56 pm |
        • Alias

          Non GOP
          I was talking about the populatoin of Australia, you are talking about the population in England.

          August 8, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
  12. thesamyaza

    not that i have anything against exacutions the less humans the better, but why does the nun get special treatment

    August 7, 2014 at 4:40 am |
    • jhg45

      first good question yet. any good answers?

      August 7, 2014 at 11:43 am |
      • Alias

        A nun's sacrifices and commitment frequently give them the benefit of any doubt about her morals.

        August 7, 2014 at 12:53 pm |
      • kenmargo

        I don't see her as being treated special. If she's stopping the executions, that's another story.

        August 7, 2014 at 4:37 pm |
  13. kenmargo

    From CNN website tonight...........

    (CNN) - It was something former New York Supreme Court Judge Frank Barbaro just couldn't get out of his mind: His 1999 second-degree murder conviction of a white man who said he killed a black man in self-defense.

    On Thursday, 15 years after that conviction, a new judge is expected to announce her decision either to overturn the murder conviction or let Barbaro's decision stand.

    The case is being revisited because Barbaro, a white judge who had gained a reputation as a staunch supporter of civil rights, says his own racial bias may have led him to convict the suspect of murder.

    "I couldn't get out of my mind the look on the lawyer's face when I said I found him guilty. And the defendant on the stand, like he was pleading to me, 'It just happened, it just happened,' and that was sort of haunting me," Barbaro said earlier this year in an exclusive interview with CNN.

    Still support the death penalty? This was a judge that had bias. Not a juror.

    August 6, 2014 at 10:39 pm |
    • Alias

      So if the system is not perfect then we shouldn't use it at all.

      August 7, 2014 at 12:54 pm |
      • kenmargo

        We need to grow up and act like a civilized society. The goal is to protect society. life in prison w/o parole would do the same thing. It's not about sympathy with the killer. It's about a system that is broken, racist and tilted against poor people.

        August 7, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
        • Alias

          Are you saying poor prople don't commit most of the crimes?

          August 7, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • kenmargo

          I guess you don't recall the OJ trial.

          August 7, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
        • kenmargo

          It's not about percentage, It's about the ability to get proper representation when your life is on the line.

          August 7, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
        • Alias

          I don't recall OJ being executed.
          What is your point?

          August 7, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
        • kenmargo

          OJ killed two people. His highly paid lawyers (and ignorant jurors) got him off. If OJ Schmooo did the same thing and used legal aid lawyers instead. He'd be on death row. That's the point!

          August 7, 2014 at 4:42 pm |
        • In Santa We Trust

          Alias, There are examples of people being convicted while their court-appointed lawyer slept through the case, where their lawyer didn't really fight their corner, etc. Disproportionately that affects poor people.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:48 pm |
  14. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Clearly there are things that make us want to condemn people to death (or worse, usually – that's why people want there to be a hell). But I'd never entrust anyone to lawfully carry out my evil wishes.

    August 6, 2014 at 8:34 pm |
  15. tallulah131

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/david-joseph-pedersen-holly-ann-grigsby-suspects-pacific-northwest-killing-spree-hate-crimes_n_1797942.html

    This couple murdered four people, including a 19 year old kid (because he had a jewish-sounding name). I think it's a tragedy that they won't face the death penalty. We put down dogs for biting, so why in the world are we warehousing these monsters?

    August 6, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
    • kenmargo

      Do you think the way we execute is humane?

      August 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm |
      • Doc Vestibule

        Sometimes, the old ways are the best.
        Bring back the guillotine.

        August 6, 2014 at 4:15 pm |
      • tallulah131

        I think that they are humane enough. Dead is dead.

        I'm curious. Did you read the article?

        August 6, 2014 at 4:18 pm |
      • Lucifer's Evil Twin

        A tree. A short rope and stool. Kick out the stool... job done.

        August 6, 2014 at 4:32 pm |
      • kenmargo

        @Tall................Yes I read it. Trust me I'm not religious at all. My point is If a killer kills people by lethal injection instead of by violent means, would you look at the murder differently? If It wasn't violent and if it was "humane".................

        August 6, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
      • tallulah131

        An individual who takes the life of an innocent victims is radically different from a society deciding to remove a danger from its population. I'm surprised that you can't discern the difference.

        August 6, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
        • kenmargo

          You can remove someone that is dangerous from society with life in prison. It will accomplish the same thing.

          August 6, 2014 at 5:49 pm |
        • tallulah131

          You are welcome to your opinion, but I do not share it.

          August 6, 2014 at 5:54 pm |
      • Alias

        So you are concerned that we are not killing people nicely?

        August 7, 2014 at 10:06 am |
        • kenmargo

          No I'm concerned about killing innocent people.

          August 7, 2014 at 2:54 pm |
        • Alias

          But you said that people are savages. Are they really innocent?
          Maybe we should kill more to stay safe.

          August 7, 2014 at 3:11 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @Alias...........Yes I stand by that statement. Look at our gun laws (or lack of) 10,000 people die from guns every year. Not one change in the law.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
      • igaftr

        All you need for a humane execution, is to place them in a normal room, pipe in helium until there is not enough oxygen, The brain does not see any difference between helium and oxygen, so you simply go to sleep, the die within minutes from lack of oxygen...no pain, no distress.

        August 7, 2014 at 10:21 am |
        • kenmargo

          Have you seen this work? How do you know it works? Sounds toooo simple.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
        • Alias

          Really ken?
          Are you 12 years old – or could there be some other reason for your ignorance on so many topics?

          August 7, 2014 at 5:39 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Alias I noticed you didn't bring it up first brainiac. You didn't understand my point about death penalty being applied unfairly. I don't think about ways to kill people during my spare time schmucko.

          Ok Brain how long does the process take until death happens?

          August 7, 2014 at 5:59 pm |
    • Doris

      tal: "We put down dogs for biting, so why in the world are we warehousing these monsters?"

      I know what you mean. How long has Michelle Bachmann been a rep now – since 2007?

      August 6, 2014 at 4:31 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      And the state-authorized murder of just one innocent person is too many.

      The death penalty cannot be accurately employed all the time. There certainly are cases where the system gets accurately identifies the guilty party, but there are far too many where the system gets it wrong. One mistake is unacceptable in a humane society.

      Lock them up. It's cheaper than having a death row where the special facility costs and legal costs spiral with every appeal.

      August 6, 2014 at 8:41 pm |
  16. kenmargo

    Let's be real. People are sav'ages. What gets me is the "pro-lifers" who love to say " all life is precious" nonsense that believe in the death penalty (Rick Perry). The death penalty is NOT an deterrent. Criminals are still killing people in Texas. It's applied unfairly to the poor and minorities. The cost of a death penalty case is very expensive and thanks to the innocents project 16 people people on death row were found innocent after the evidence was re examined. Justice job is to protect us, not to get revenge.

    August 6, 2014 at 3:36 pm |
    • tallulah131

      I'm all for improving the review system and we should absolutely be certain of guilt before execution, but I do not see any value in warehousing murderers. It's not a matter of revenge, it's a matter of taking out the trash. There are more than enough humans on the planet. Let's save the resources for someone who deserves them.

      August 6, 2014 at 3:47 pm |
      • kenmargo

        It's not about warehousing. It's about being a civil society. Considering our legal system is far from perfect, a permanent punishment like death should not be an option. If a inmate would prefer the death penalty (an inmate in NY did) once found guilty, then I'm all for it.

        August 6, 2014 at 3:59 pm |
        • tallulah131

          We put down dogs when they bite. Why should humans that murder get more consideration? There are already too many people for this planet to maintain. Why should humans who murder receive resources that more valuable humans may not be getting?

          August 6, 2014 at 4:21 pm |
        • kenmargo

          To be honest with you, I don't think dogs should be put down for biting. What else do you expect dogs to do?

          Yopu don't think resources" should be used for murderers. What resources are you talking about? They gotta eat. If they get sick, you gotta get them well. It's not like they're going on sight seeing tours!

          August 6, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
        • tallulah131

          I believe that dogs that are dangerous to humans and other animals should be killed. Not everything can be rehabilitated. Our tax dollars are resources that are used to warehouse criminals. I would much rather those dollars be used to repair roads or to support schools and other programs that help people who have not taken the lives of innocent victims.

          August 6, 2014 at 5:25 pm |
        • kenmargo

          We waste many more dollars on nonsense than on the prison system. You're just as cold hearted as the killers we put in prison. Hope one day you don't need the sympathy you refuse to give others.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:01 pm |
        • tallulah131

          I sympathize with the murder victims and their families. Remember them?

          August 6, 2014 at 6:04 pm |
        • kenmargo

          I sympathize with the victims also. More killings aren't going to bring them back. The executions make YOU feel better.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:14 pm |
        • tallulah131

          This is actually the first time on this blog that you've mentioned the real victims, so stop pretending you have the moral high ground. Executions really don't make me emotional. I just think of them as taking out the trash.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
        • tallulah131

          I have to go now, but if you respond, I'll answer later. I'm not running away from the conversation.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Trust me I have zero moral high ground. I'm as religious as a rock. You sound more moral than anyone. ("Eye for a eye" nonsense) What about women that killed because they were abused? I guess we should execute people that cause car accidents that kill. Execute children, mentally handicapped, circu'mstances be da'mned. Kill, Kill, Kill. You sound like the Taliban.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:34 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Wow. I had no idea you were such a drama queen. Nice tantrum.

          Morality has nothing to do with religion, but thank you for giving another false weapon to the christians on this blog who think that the two are the same thing.

          I have never said "Kill, kill, kill". That was all you, making up lies to tell about me. Your histrionic accusations have no place in a real dialogue, but they certainly reveal a lot about your character. Shame on you.

          In the real world, sentences for murder are determined on a case-to-case basis, so that a woman who kills her abusive husband faces a different sentence than a serial killer who strangles hookers. You'll notice that the death sentence is generally reserved for those who commit the most heinous crimes.

          I have always given the caveat that I only support the death penalty in instances where guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have never advocated weakening the appeals system and I have absolutely defended people like the West Memphis Three who were wrongly convicted. I want an honest system, but once the truth is revealed, I want a just system.

          Murder devastates families and communities. We should reserve our sympathy for those who actually deserve our sympathy, not for the monsters who condemn themselves by the actions they have taken of their own free will. You can choose to sympathize with murderers if you want. I can't and I won't.

          August 6, 2014 at 8:50 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "I have always given the caveat that I only support the death penalty in instances where guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt."
          ------------------------
          Understood, but there is no legal standard for "beyond a shadow of a doubt". The legal standard is "beyond reasonable doubt" and people get it wrong.

          In the rush to judgment (to provide closure for the families of victims and to take the heat of policing) we convict people truly innocent of the crime for which they are convicted on a regular basis.

          Execution of one innocent person is too many. How many wrongful executions is OK for you? Because we *will* get it wrong. We are human and humans make mistakes.

          August 6, 2014 at 8:57 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Ooops – "take away the heat from policing"

          August 6, 2014 at 8:58 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @Tall...........You metioned the word "moral" before I did. Morals is part of everything. Your morals favor death, mine don't.
          You mentioned "heinous" crimes. You'd think only monorities commit heinous crimes because of the way the penalty is applied. You don't want to weaken the appeals process. But what if your legal aid lawyer has a 100 cases and can't give you the time needed. Maybe you wouldn't be convicted in the first place and need appeals if the justice system is right.

          We'll never really know if someone is 100% percent guilty. Convictions get overturned everyday. It's easy from the comfort of a keyboard to be a "tough azz" on crime. But one unjust verdict is one too many for "perfect" legal system.

          You are right that murder destroys communities and families. Murder by a thug or by the gov't is the same thing. If you don't believe me, look at the Iraq war. The US gov't executed a bunch of people that did NOT have anything to do with 9/11 or have weapons of mass destruction. According to you "It's ok" it's the gov't. no need to warehouse criminals.

          August 6, 2014 at 9:24 pm |
        • tallulah131

          @kenmargo

          You are the one who equated morals to religion. Your own words: "I have zero moral high ground. I'm as religious as a rock."

          I have never once said that the system is perfect. I have never once said that it didn't need reviews and repair. But as you said, the appeals court sees cases being overturned. Forensics are improving every day. I suspect in the future it will be even more difficult to convict the wrong person.

          And to both of you: Of course we can be certain that some killers are 100% guilty. Do you think that the Green River Killer was innocent? The BTK Killer? Sometimes there really, truly is enough evidence to know that someone is 100% guilty.

          I'm sick of arguing. You can continue supporting killers. I will continue giving my sympathy to the victims. Have a lovely night.

          August 6, 2014 at 10:07 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Ok Tall I'll play along. You did mention morals before I did (read back) Trust me there are people I would execute. I just don't think the govt. should be in the business of getting revenge for people. Get off on being blood thirsty. Texas and Florida are states that you'd fit in. They also have the least gun control you can imagine. So you take revenge for yourself if you like. ENJOY.

          August 6, 2014 at 10:32 pm |
        • crittermomagain

          Here's another thought. Lots of pro-death folks go on about the "innocent victims." How about when the murder victim is a really nasty person themselves?

          Example: Thug neighborhood, drug deal goes bad. One drug dealer kills other drug dealer. You may think the shooter just did society a favor, but that dead drug dealer is still a human being. He probably has a family ... parents, siblings, children, cousins. They are all suffering a terrible loss, and are crying just as hard as the family of the more photogenic murder victims you might picture.

          So, do you think the punishment should be the same for murdering a "bad" person as for murdering a "good" person? Murder is murder, right?

          Yes, it is. Whether it's done on the streets or in an "execution chamber."

          August 7, 2014 at 12:37 pm |
        • tallulah131

          I mentioned morals. I did not mention religion. You are the one that tied the two together. Hence my complaint. I worded it very clearly. I can only suppose that you deliberately misunderstood because you are too arrogant to admit you might be mistaken. I suspect this is also why you continue to call me names like "taliban" and "bloodthirsty" just because I think that the most heinous of the indisputably guilty should be executed after exhausting their appeals.

          And then you contradict yourself and say that there are people you'd like to execute, which as far as I'm concerned, makes you the bloodthirsty one. You deliberately misconstrue what I say, call me names and show complete disregard the real victims. I don't understand you. I don't want to understand you.

          Go ahead and call me names and lie about my character. You do not offend me because I am not offended by insults from people I do not respect. I agree that the system is flawed, but I believe it should be corrected and not thrown away. There should be stricter standards and greater scrutiny, and should the death penalty be outlawed, I wouldn't fight it. But your melodramatic hyperbole is not an effective argument. Perhaps you should work on that before attacking someone else for having the audacity to disagree with you.

          August 7, 2014 at 3:17 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          "Here's another thought. Lots of pro-death folks go on about the "innocent victims." How about when the murder victim is a really nasty person themselves?
          -----------------------
          Which is, in part, why we have 'stand your ground' laws. They basically legalize what you suggest – with no due process, just fear for personal safety on the part of the armed party.

          August 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Ok tall you can stop deflecting with the religion/moral nonsense. I think ANYONE for the death penalty is bloodthirsty. I can feel anger/hate towards people, I am human. Bottom line, I'm against the death penalty. I don't need to miscontrue what you say, people will see you're confused for themselves. I do have compassion for the victims, I'm not saying the killer should go free. There's a reason several companies are not allowing their drugs to be used in executions. Tough business to use as a reference for your product.

          This is a blog, not a dating site. There's no reason for you to know me or respect me. The reason I blog is not to change your mind. It's to put more info out there for people who maybe on the fence one way or another. If you agree, great. If not, I still sleep well at night.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • tallulah131

          Again, you can't bring yourself to admit that you are the one who tied morals to religion, and indeed prefer to call it nonsense rather than admit that you are the one who made an issue of it initially.

          You can believe whatever you want. I will continue to believe that there are certain individuals, who through their own actions, have forfeited the privilege of living. I could give you a huge list of people irrefutably guilty of the most cruel and gruesome murders, murderers who killed while in prison and killers who have been paroled only to murder again. These people are why I think the death penalty should exist. They are indefensible, yet you defend them so you can sleep well at night. Well good for you.

          I'll save my concern for the loved ones of the victims, and their ability to sleep well at night.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:58 pm |
        • kenmargo

          Ok tall will you pull your panties out your azz if i say I tied morals to religion? You Asked me If I read the article. Since the nun was religious, I added that I'm not religous because that is what I thought you were referring too. EVERYONE has morals. They're whatever you want them to be. Feel better now. It still doesn't change the argument.

          We're executing less people now so the trend is on my side. No surprise war hungry (bloodthirsty, pro life) republicans are leading the charge for executions. Those are guys I wouldn't shed a tear for if they were executed, died in a plane crash, caught in a crossfire, burned alive, attacked by dogs, tree fell on them. etc etc......

          Ok now call me bloodthirsty, dracula, leech or any blood loving animal you can think of!

          August 7, 2014 at 5:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Sister Helen Prejean is unambiguously 'pro-life'.

      August 6, 2014 at 8:52 pm |
  17. Reality

    Sounds like a nun who should not have a driver's license and considering her risking the lives of others on the road, she should simply retire to a silent, solitary life in a nunnery. Or maybe she should offer her driving services for the execution of the next death penalty inmate.

    August 6, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
    • LaBella

      Sounds like she's done much more in her 75 years than you've done in your 72. You should probably retire to a quiet life of contemplating exactly why that is instead of denig>I>rating everyone.

      August 6, 2014 at 2:37 pm |
    • jhg45

      I find it hard to believe you have any feelings or thoughts about this woman since all she is and stands for is nonexistent to you but most of all I find it hard to believe you read the whole article, mostly for the same reasons.

      August 6, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
      • Reality

        The article starts with:

        "It's clear why friends insist on driving when they are with her. She could rival NASCAR's Danica Patrick on the gas pedal. Age – she turned 75 this year – hasn't slowed her down.

        She was weaving all over Interstate 10 when police stopped her one time. Turned out she was reading while driving. "

        And yes I read the entire article. Not impressed based on lack of concern for others on the road, a lack that could kill more INNOCENT citizens than the five DESERVING low-lives she watched being executed. Maybe she should write another DEAD NUN DRIVING !!!

        And her biggest sin is promoting a religion whose history is ripe with killing INNOCENT non-believers and ra-ping INNOCENT children. Again, she should get herself to a nunnery and lock herself in permanently. Or maybe she can become a permanent resident of "Angola" after she gets convicted for vehicular manslaughter !!

        August 6, 2014 at 4:44 pm |
        • tallulah131

          It is rather astonishing that they seem to be making a joke out of her dangerous driving habits.

          August 6, 2014 at 5:31 pm |
        • jhg45

          just for response, I have no empathy for her or especially those she has befriended. the one who buried one alive turned my heart but I actually found myself agreeing with you for once, just not completely. I believe there is something wrong where she vomits over an execution but not over some of the extreme murders we read about.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:10 pm |
        • LaBella

          So why don't they away her license? She doesn't deserve your derision because you don't like the fact she is a nun, and you hate all things religious. But then, you are derisive because she's a nun, and no other reason than that.

          August 6, 2014 at 9:30 pm |
        • LaBella

          @jhg45,
          Would your opinion change if she were a Jehovah's Witness?

          August 6, 2014 at 9:32 pm |
        • jhg45

          she would not be one or at least remain one. she would not take part in those activities as one of the JWs. to learn what Jehovah's Witnesses believe go to jw.org don't take the word of a ford dealer if you want to know about a dodge. to learn what the Bible really teaches go there and ask, get answers and back them up. do the research for yourself. and at no charge.

          August 6, 2014 at 10:16 pm |
        • jhg45

          my opinion here was about the subject in the article, to reality why would you ask such a question?

          August 6, 2014 at 10:17 pm |
        • LaBella

          jhg45, I merely asked a question. Why so defensive?
          My goodness. Sister Prejean thinks that everyone, even those who are guiltiest of the most heinous crimes, deserve salvation and can achieve that through Jesus Christ.
          And here I thought that was a tenet of Christianity. Am I wrong?

          August 6, 2014 at 10:27 pm |
        • jhg45

          you actually got one right

          August 7, 2014 at 9:21 am |
        • LaBella

          Thanks for the acknowledgement, however snarkily and grudgingly given.

          August 7, 2014 at 12:58 pm |
        • jhg45

          sorry but you misread me, not grudgingly at all, and snarkily? not a clue what that means. but I think it is not on the positive side. why can't people here ever be civil? can't we all just get along?

          August 7, 2014 at 2:17 pm |
        • LaBella

          "you actually got one right"
          Implying I got something wrong in the past.

          Snarky=condescending, sarcastic. Your answer struck me thusly. If that was not your intent, why answer "you actually got one right?"
          You seem very defensive; evidenced by our first exchange. "why would you even ask me that?" Because I wanted to find our if your thoughts on Sister Prejean were based on her denomination.
          If you do not want to have exchanges with posters, why post?

          August 7, 2014 at 2:29 pm |
        • jhg45

          my defense to your question 'why...." was because I wondered that after already answering reality and I wondered why would you even ask that question? Since you never answered why not now. that question I do not understand. "if she was a JW? actually my answer would have been no but I gave my response to reality. I think you were being a little "snarkily" in your comment and from what I have discerned it must mean "wise guy"? anyway I don't think peoples sense of humor comes across very good here when a little sarcasm in included. also,(please don't take me wrong) but if you really knew the JWs you would not think to ask that that way. those people are the kindest most sincere and serious about their faith and I will defend them as I learn more about them and I encourage others also to go to jw.org to see more about what the Bible really teaches. as far as discussions here, I love a serious (and even sarcastic) debate but when it becomes just a place to downgrade people because of what they say or believe then I just move on. I do see too much of that here but I guess it goes with the territory. hope I answered some of your question and apologize for any seeming snarkness. (that word still does not compute)

          August 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm |
        • LaBella

          I wasn't addressing Reality. I was addressing you.
          I just answered your question as to why I asked you if your opinion would change if Sister Prejean were a JW in the post preceding this one: to see if you based your opinions on her based on her denomination.
          You answered no. Okay.

          Why would you answer "you actually got one right", implying I am wrong on everything else? What, based upon what I've said here, is wrong? Can you not see that might be an attempt to "downgrade" me?

          I denig.rated no one.
          For what it's worth, if asking you a question offends you so much, I will not address you again.
          I apologize for bothering you.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:05 pm |
        • jhg45

          I am really sorry we got so far from the discussion and sorry if I misunderstood you. what I should have said was "we agree on one" I meant no harm or negativity and do not know how often you have been right or wrong. just meant to infer that we agreed . Peace?

          August 7, 2014 at 4:14 pm |
        • LaBella

          Peace.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:20 pm |
        • jhg45

          I have to go and hope all is well with you. looking forward to further sincere and serious discussions in the future.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:21 pm |
  18. SeaVik

    The irony to me is that conservatives claim they are for small government. But they also tend to support the death penalty, which gives the government the authority to kill its own citizens.

    August 6, 2014 at 2:07 pm |
    • tallulah131

      I'm as moderate as it gets and I support the death penalty (as long as guilt is unquestionable.)

      August 6, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
      • kenmargo

        A moderate republican?

        August 6, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
        • tallulah131

          A democrat moderate.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:24 pm |
        • kenmargo

          I'm a liberal democrat. I was for the death penalty. I just feel society needs to move forward. If we improve people's opportunities at a younger age, we can avoid executions later in life.

          August 6, 2014 at 6:38 pm |
        • tallulah131

          In a perfect world there would be no murders. But this is not a perfect world.

          August 6, 2014 at 8:53 pm |
        • kenmargo

          "In a perfect world there would be no murders. But this is not a perfect world."

          So why the ultimate penalty if people could be mistakenly given the death penalty?

          August 6, 2014 at 9:27 pm |
        • tallulah131

          This is why the system should be reviewed and improved. I never said it was perfect. What I said is that it does not benefit a society to warehouse the unambiguously guilty.

          August 6, 2014 at 10:08 pm |
        • kenmargo

          "This is why the system should be reviewed and improved. I never said it was perfect."

          Ok kill people until we figure it out. That'll give us confidence in the legal system!

          August 7, 2014 at 5:35 pm |
      • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

        " I support the death penalty (as long as guilt is unquestionable.)"
        -------------------–
        As flawed as our legal system is (it is comprised of humans after all) there is no reliable standard for "unquestionable" guilt.

        In your view, is state-appointed execution OK for the insane if they 'unquestionably' kill someone?

        August 6, 2014 at 8:47 pm |
        • crittermomagain

          The jury in Texas thought it was "unquestionable" that that father burned down his house and murdered his entire family. Unfortunately, it wasn't until after they executed him that it turned out it was an electrical fire. Oops.

          As for executing an insane person, most people don't even understand what that means, or are so angry about the crime that they insist the perpetrator is "faking it." As a prison psychologist, I've met many folks who try to "fake" mental illness for various reasons, and believe me, it's not as easy to do it as you (or they!) think. I've also met some folks who were truly, truly so mentally ill that it would really not be reasonable to hold them accountable for their actions. It would be like punishing a child for wetting their pants during a grand mal seizure. They are that out of control, or that out of touch with reality.

          In any case, as far as the death penalty goes ... no. I simply believe that killing a living, breathing human being who is already incarcerated is wrong. If he/she resists arrest and is killed in a shootout with police, fine. Once they're under control, though, I think killing them is the ultimate example of "excessive use of force." Your opinion may vary.

          August 7, 2014 at 9:43 am |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          I concur.

          I see no distinction between execution and murder. The execution of an innocent person, doubly so. Our system cannot reliably determine guilt 100% of the time. One mistake in assigning guilt is one too many.

          August 7, 2014 at 4:17 pm |
  19. fortheloveofellipsis

    I have always been of two minds regarding capital punishment. On the one hand, I admit to enough anger at truly atrocious acts that I so want the wrongdoer to be done away with; on the other, it's impossible to miss the flagrant abuses of the system (withheld evidence and prosecutorial misconduct in general, poor representation of most DP defendants, etc.) and distrust the entire process. Add to that the relish many of the most rabid DP supporters for killing–many of whom wish that executions would be done by overt torture–and it's hard to maintain support for the DP as it exists in America.

    And why am I not surprised that the head of the Southern Baptist Convention practically creams himself at the thought of executions?...

    August 6, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
    • kenmargo

      I've felt the same way you feel. I just think as a society we need to move on from this type of punishment (for the reasons you've mentioned) Many european countries have eliminated executions. Think of this comparison: We execute like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and other middle eastern countries that we THINK we're better than.

      August 6, 2014 at 5:05 pm |
      • awanderingscot

        Imagine that, the milk of human kindness coming from a man who would crush a defenseless baby with his boot if he saw it lying on the sidewalk. you're pathetic.

        August 7, 2014 at 3:48 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @awanderingscat...................First of all I didn't say that. I said I would step on a embryo if I saw it on the street. Since embryo's are virually microscopic I couldn't tell if I step on one or not. Of course an embryo on the street would surely be dead already.

          A person on death row is a fully developed grown person and isn't in another human being. Totally different scenario.

          August 7, 2014 at 5:30 pm |
        • LaBella

          Awanderingscot,
          Do you still feel you don't misrepresent people's words?

          August 7, 2014 at 5:38 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          You stated that if you SAW one on the sidewalk you would step on it which does not imply microscopic so stop your lying. I didn't misrepresent anything Akira so go find another of your atheist brothers to defend.

          August 7, 2014 at 7:47 pm |
        • LaBella

          An embryo is not a baby. Yet. And embryo at its latest stage is barely an inch long.
          Yes, you misrepresented kenmargo. I'm being polite.
          You lied.

          I consider everyone, males, females, atheist, believers to be my brethren.
          I'm sorry you don't.
          Might want to brush up on the tenets of Jesus, whom you claim to follow, but act in a manner contrary to His teachings.

          August 7, 2014 at 8:16 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @awanderingscat..........First of all who's Akira? I don't see Akira anywhere. I stated in my response that I couldn't see it if it was miscroscopic so i didn't lie. If it was on the ground it WOULD BE DEAD. It would be dead the second the mother aborted it.

          I have an idea. Those children at the Texas border, you know the children the pro life republicans want to deport? Why don't you tell the repubs to help them? Those children represent life right? SO HELP THEM. Or are you like the phony repubs that quote the bible before birth, screw the bible after?

          August 7, 2014 at 8:46 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          kenmargo

          No it's not a human. If I saw it in the street I'd step on it.

          July 1, 2014 at 7:44 pm |

          – No Ken, No Akira, you are both either mistaken or you are both liars. These are your words from the Hobby Lobby blog Ken. So tell me now, where does the milk of human kindness flow from you? you don't give a rat's a$$ about a defenseless unborn but you're also not willing to have the plug pulled on an evil pos who ra-ped a young woman, murdered her, and then buried her in a shallow grave. you're pathetic and so are you Akira.

          August 7, 2014 at 11:59 pm |
        • LaBella

          Scot,
          Indicate where I have lied.
          You cannot.
          I haven't.

          August 8, 2014 at 12:12 am |
        • halero 9001

          kenmargo: "I said I would step on a embryo if I saw it on the street. Since embryo's are [virtually] microscopic I couldn't tell if I step on one or not. Of course an embryo on the street would surely be dead already."

          This is understandable, kenmargo. If there was an embryo on the street, it would most likely have been accidentally left there by the type of woman who would associate with a careless wanderer.

          August 8, 2014 at 1:09 am |
        • awanderingscot

          LaBella
          Yes, you misrepresented kenmargo. I'm being polite.
          You lied.

          kenmargo
          No it's not a human. If I saw it in the street I'd step on it.
          July 1, 2014 at 7:44 pm |

          – so not only are you a liar Akira, but a bald-faced liar.

          August 8, 2014 at 9:53 am |
      • LaBella

        I said that you misrepresented kenmargo when you said
        "Imagine that, the milk of human kindness coming from a man who would crush a defenseless baby with his boot if he saw it lying on the sidewalk. you're pathetic"

        Because he didn't say he would crush a defenseless baby. You said that.

        "-so not only are you a liar Akira, but a bald-faced liar."
        Nope.
        Since it appears you don't know what the word 'lie' means within this context, I've supplied the definition:
        Lie:
        1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
        2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
        3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

        In this thread, you most certainly did lie.

        August 8, 2014 at 10:50 am |
        • awanderingscot

          from the Hobby Lobby blog back in July, the words of one Ken Margo that you pretend not to see Akira.

          kenmargo
          No it's not a human. If I saw it in the street I'd step on it.
          July 1, 2014 at 7:44 pm |

          – You are most certainly a liar.

          August 8, 2014 at 4:28 pm |
        • LaBella

          Scot,
          Kenmargo said, "First of all who's Akira? I don't see Akira anywhere."
          I didn't.

          I freely admit that I am Akira; I have stated that on numerous occasions, and why I had to start posting using LaBella.

          What I said is that you misrepresented what he said when you stated ""Imagine that, the milk of human kindness coming from a man who would crush a defenseless baby with his boot if he saw it lying on the sidewalk. you're pathetic" when he actually said "No it's not a human. If I saw it in the street I'd step on it" on the HL story, which you helpfully provided as proof that you misrepresented what he actually said.

          So, where did I lie? I didn't. You did. And you keep doing it.
          Why?

          August 8, 2014 at 4:46 pm |
        • LaBella

          Oh, and I did see what he said.
          I also saw how you misrepresented what he said, deliberately.

          -That is called lying.
          -You have not demonstrated how I lied, but choose to keep asserting that I am.
          -That is slandering, another form of lying.

          Please review your ethics and the Commandments God gave; you keep breaking #9.

          August 8, 2014 at 5:36 pm |
        • awanderingscot

          noahsdadtopher
          It's not a human? Seriously?
          July 1, 2014 at 7:27 pm | Reply
          kenmargo
          No it's not a human. If I saw it in the street I'd step on it.
          July 1, 2014 at 7:44 pm |

          August 9, 2014 at 12:12 am |
        • awanderingscot

          Scenarion #1 : Bank robbery witness #1 on the stand: "Yes sir, i saw that man (points at defendant) run from the bank and jump into a car and speed off"

          Scenarion #2 : Bank robbery witness #2 on the stand: "Yes sir, i saw that man in the blue suit (points at defendant) run from the bank and jump into a black Firebird and speed off"

          – so tell me Akira, which testimony is a misrepresentation, the testimony of witness #1 or the testimony of witness #2 ?
          – you had better read your Bible Akira and learn what it says about giving false testimony.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:24 am |
        • LaBella

          -I think that what you are doing is a red herring and backpedalling in an attempt to obfuscate the fact that you deliberately misrepresented someone's words, again.

          -I think you telling me anything about false testimony is quite ironic, as you do it here on a regular basis.

          -prodigious knowledge of Scripture means nothing if one doesn't follow its tenets. It does not make one a good person. At all.

          August 10, 2014 at 8:55 pm |
  20. ausphor

    Dead Man Walking, thought that was just a Jesus myth.

    August 6, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.