August 8th, 2014
05:36 PM ET

Who are the Yazidis, and why does ISIS want to kill them?

By Joshua Berlinger, CNN

(CNN) - In a church in Irbil, 40-day-old Yeshua lies asleep in a crib, his sister playfully rocking him. It's a peaceful scene. Their mother watches over them, but her face shows the fear and despair many Iraqi minorities have felt over the past few days.

The Sunni militant group ISIS, which calls itself the Islamic State, has steamrolled into Iraq's north, forcing hundreds of thousands of minorities from their homes. The militants have beheaded some who won't bend to their will and are "putting people's heads on spikes" to terrorize others, a senior U.S. administration official said.

Nearly 40,000 Yazidis are trapped on the top of Mount Sinjar with few resources; many with just the clothes on their back, U.S. President Barack Obama said in an address late Thursday evening.

"These innocent families are faced with a horrible choice," Obama said. "Descend the mountain and be slaughtered, or stay and slowly die of thirst and hunger."

So who are these people being threatened by the Islamic State? And why do the militant Islamists have them in their cross hairs?

The Yazidis

The Yazidis are one of the world's smallest and oldest monotheistic religious minorities. Their religion is considered a pre-Islamic sect that draws from Christianity, Judaism and the ancient monotheistic religion of Zoroastrianism.

Yazidis worship one God and honor seven angels. Unlike Muslims and Christians, they reject the idea of sin, the devil and hell itself.

Many Muslims regard them as devil-worshippers because the Yazidis revere an angel who, their tradition holds, refused to obey God.

Their religious differences have made them a target for persecution throughout history, most recently during the U.S. war in Iraq - in 2007, more than 700 people were killed when suicide bombers attacked a Yazidi village. Before that, they were targeted for centuries under the rule of the Ottoman Empire.

Iraq's Yazidis trapped, hiding from ISIS in the mountains

President Obama and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry have said that if the Yazidis are not protected, their slaughter could quickly escalate to a genocide.

To help the trapped people, the U.S. has sent them humanitarian airdrops. Obama has authorized airstrikes against the Islamic State fighters who are threatening the Yazidis there.

The U.S. State Department's 2013 International Religious Freedom Report estimates that approximately 500,000 Yazidis live in the northern Iraq, accounting for less than 1% of the country's population. Another 200,000 live in other parts of the world, according to the website YezidiTruth.org.

Like the Kurds, they mostly reside in Iraq's north, many in the town of Sinjar in northwestern Nineveh province, bordering Iraq's Kurdish region. The province is home to mostly Arabs and Kurds, who have jostled for control over it for centuries.

Iraqi Yazidi lawmaker: 'Hundreds of my people are being slaughtered'

But Yazidis also reside in Turkey, Syria, Armenia, Iran and parts of the Caucasus region. The people speak Kurdish and are of Kurdish descent, but most see themselves as ethnically distinctive.

Iraqi Christians

Before being targeted by ISIS, an enormous portion - some say as many as half - of Iraq's Christians fled the country at the start of the U.S. war in 2003. Al Qaeda in Iraq, which preceded ISIS, brutally targeted the country's Christian minority.

According to the State Department, Christian leaders and nongovernmental organizations estimate that there areapproximately 500,000 Christians in Iraq - a that figure has declined by nearly 300,000 in the last five years. At one point there were over a million Christians living in Iraq.

Most Iraqi Christians are Chaldeans, who are communicants with the Roman Catholic church. They predominantly reside in northern Iraq.

The al Qaeda splinter group has taken control of the country's largest Christian city, Qaraqosh. And last month, Christians in the country's second largest city, Mosul, were told they must convert to Islam, pay a fine or face "death by the sword."

"Christian communities are particularly affected: a people fleeing from their villages because of the violence that rages in these days, wreaking havoc on the entire region," said the Rev. Federico Lombardi, a spokesman for Pope Francis.

The Pope said on Twitter: "I ask all men and women of goodwill to join me in praying for Iraqi Christians and all vulnerable populations."


The majority of the world's Turkmen, a Turkic-speaking, traditionally nomadic people, live in Turkmenistan and elsewhere in Central Asia.

But a small minority of them can be found in the Middle East, primarily in northern Iraq, Iran and Turkey.

eThe city of Tal Afar, whose population is mostly made up of Turkmen, was caught in the crossfire of sectarian violence between Shiites and Sunnis during the recent Iraq war - a suicide attack killed 150 people in 2007. The city's population dwindled from about 200,000 to 80,000 in just a few years.

Sunni Turkmen make up 1% to 2% of Iraq's population, according to the State Department. A smaller group of Shia Turkmen live there, as well.


Despite the risk ISIS poses to Yazidis, Turkmen, Christians and the country's other minorities, the risk to Iraq's majority Shia Muslims is far more widespread.

In their quest to create an Islamic caliphate stretching from Syria to Iraq, ISIS has targeted Shiites in both countries.

In June, the group claimed on Twitter that it killed at least 1,700 Shiites in June. ISIS is also fighting Syrian President

Bashar al-Assad's forces in Syria. Assad is a member of the Alawite sect, on offshoot of Shia Islam.

Like many of the minorities in in the Nineveh province, Shiites and Alawites have been labeled as infidels by ISIS.
Shiites outnumber Sunnis in Iraq on the whole.

Most of Baghdad is predominantly Shiite, but large portions of Iraq's western and northern territories contain Sunni majority populations.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Discrimination • Foreign policy • Iraq • Islam • Middle East • Persecution • Religious violence

soundoff (435 Responses)
  1. austin929


    August 9, 2014 at 7:29 pm |
    • austin929

      has any one watched this info wars video about ISIS or al c.i.a.da

      I would like to get peoples opinion on this.

      August 9, 2014 at 7:31 pm |
  2. unsername1

    who gives a damn what Muhammed they follow, when they kill or want to kill people, they are bunch of criminals like street thugs. they should be punished or be killed.

    August 9, 2014 at 5:58 pm |
    • austin929

      that is the nature at work but what about a spiritual reaction to persecution?

      what would Jesus do? What did his immediate circle of followers do? its a difficult decision and to follow the example of Chirst you may have to trust Him with your life.

      August 9, 2014 at 6:06 pm |
      • ragansteve1

        Yes, eleven out of twelve Apostles (counting Paul who saw Jesus on the road to Damascus) died martyrs deaths. So being a Christ follower ca be a risky business from a material world perspective. As for WWJD, I would turn to Matthew 5 for guidance.

        August 9, 2014 at 6:20 pm |
        • otoh2

          The ident.ities and the fates of most of the apostles are unknown. Legends and unverified stories about them abound, however.

          August 9, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
        • ragansteve1

          Their fates are not independently confirmed by historians, but what I said is traditionally believed about their deaths.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:00 pm |
  3. austin929

    correct, the claim of Christ stands alone. There is only one savior. there rest were born of natural descent, were prophets but sinners. Moses killed and Egyptian. Abraham committed adultery. ect. Christ was sinless.

    The thing about Christ, is that he fulfilled the mosaic festival calendar. He was crucified on Passover.....after 1400 years of sacrificing the lamb and prophecies about the messiah, the killed Him on Passover. he lay in the tomb on the the festival of unleavened bread, and on Nisan 16 he resurrected, on the festival of first fruits. the first born of God, the fruit of the spirit. is that a little odd? crucified by the jews in the Roman courts, that this happened?

    this is divine providence. And the old testament prophecies about the resurrection as well. and He was resurrected. and so as a student of the old testament I can honestly say that this is more than a made up mistranslated new testament story.

    This is meant to be. Read Isaiah ch 53
    written 700 BC

    Isaiah 53 New International Version (NIV)

    53 Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

    He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
    He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

    He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
    Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

    Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
    yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.

    But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
    the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.

    We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
    and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.

    He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
    he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.

    By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
    For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]

    He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
    though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.

    Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
    he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

    After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
    by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.

    Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
    because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
    For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

    August 9, 2014 at 5:07 pm |
    • khidir619

      How do you know he was sinless when you only know about three of his 33 years on Earth and his Book was hijacked?

      August 9, 2014 at 5:20 pm |
      • austin929

        as a student of the old testament, the whole old testament points to a messiah. I don't think the new testament was hijacked, I think it is a fulfillment of old testament prophecy. Abraham knew about the messiah. David knew about the messiah, and the major and minor prophets, certainly had many many prophecies about the messiah, they just missed him.

        also there are spiritual gifts associated with salvation, and I received one. I have the gift of prophecy, I have had over 30 revelations come true, but they are not like the old testament prophets, I am not a prophet .

        but I have experienced the gifts of the spirit.

        August 9, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
        • khidir619

          Of course the New Testament wasn't hijacked. It's new and current. I'm talking about the Gospels of Jesus. The revelations given to him in its purest form. The Old and New Testaments do no justice. That's not what Angel Gabriel revealed to Jesus.

          August 9, 2014 at 5:36 pm |
        • austin929

          what did he reveal? and where do you read that account?

          August 9, 2014 at 6:04 pm |
        • evolveddna

          Auston..you have the gift of prophesy..ok then..can you give us a heads up..or can only reveal them after the fact... that being said though.. I go to buy clothes and the store clerks tell me I look like a medium.. so maybe we are the same

          August 9, 2014 at 6:25 pm |
        • kudlak

          The OT outlines how to identify the intended messiah, and Jesus doesn't pass the test. Famous suggestions of Isaiah 53 actually refer to the nation of Israel, which is clear if you read it from where this discussion begins in the previous chapter. Besides, Jesus didn't have any offspring, like Isaiah 53 lists, right?

          August 9, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
        • austin929

          no if you want me to I can come up with many other messianic prophecies out of Isaiah, and Jesus has spiritual offspring. that is why being born again is called being born again, of water and of spirit.

          Christ is the first born of God, and the first fruit of the spirit.

          ◄ Romans 8:23 ►

          Parallel Verses

          New International Version
          Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

          just as moses waved a sheaf of barley and consecrated the harvest, or the "seed of Abraham" is because the harvest is a spiritual harvest.

          His holy spirit is capable of much offspring, hence the parables of the seed and the sower. The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom and we are born as heirs as sons of the living God.

          August 9, 2014 at 7:46 pm |
    • kudlak

      Did Jesus honour his mother when he said "Who is my mother ... " in Matthew? Denying her the respect that she deserved was breaking a Commandment, right?

      August 9, 2014 at 7:26 pm |
      • austin929

        kind of like when John the Baptist was in prison and he sent his friends to ask Jesus "are we to expect another Lord" because John was upset with his circu.mstances. He didn't trust in Chist's Lord ship and this was well after He baptized Him.

        is Mary elevated to a position where Christ is no her Lord as well? How does that work? I guess it depends on if Christ was Lord yet right?

        August 9, 2014 at 7:35 pm |
      • austin929

        Matthew 22:18 ►
        But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?

        August 9, 2014 at 7:40 pm |
  4. Vic

    The media outlets posit that the insurgents have exhibited surprising military skills and speed, I wonder if Russia has a hand in it, especially given the rapid deterioration of US-Russian relations since the Crimea Crisis back in March.

    Also, interestingly, President Obama's tone jibes with/is reminiscent of President Bush's concerning measures in Iraq, e.g. stating committing to U.S. military involvement in Iraq —though no ground combat— to bring security to the region, that the U.S offensive has already accomplished a significant part of its mission, that it is a long-term project and declining on giving a timetable for the operation, that Iraq needs a Prime Minister—hence a new regime, etc.

    August 9, 2014 at 4:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      You should look at things more closely, Vic. You should see the hand of Satan at work in all this. And God as well: drones do God's work.

      August 9, 2014 at 4:49 pm |
      • austin929

        vic.........look at the kennedy as.sas.sination. this was a coup de tat. the cia was invading Cuba and kennedy put a stop to it. who was high up in the CIA ? bush .

        since Obama took office, we have seen these coups go in a straight line to Crimea. Lybia, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, and across the lake to Crimea. CIA involved in every place.

        August 9, 2014 at 4:56 pm |
        • austin929

          Bush grand father was involved with the Nazi's . also Prescott bush was invested with the federal reserve. Kennedy was against the federal reserve. Prescott bush was friends with normand rockefellar. In my opinion, I believe that we are experiencing a wave of fascism.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:59 pm |
        • Alias

          austin, please, back on your meds.

          August 11, 2014 at 1:29 pm |
        • Doris

          "normand rockefellar"

          Is he the one that had that dog "Old Yellar"?

          August 11, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
    • Vic

      I posted on a previous Blog post that those are signs of what some believe to be the prelude of a series of wars leading up to the "Battle of Armageddon."

      August 9, 2014 at 5:26 pm |
      • austin929

        vic, do you recall where this post can be located on that prelude? and I do apologize for a bit of negativity toward the government. you know it really makes a difference when you are robbed by the lying bank and esgrow loan system. I got nailed for 20 grand and then 10 g more. and I have won both cases in court, but the BANK DISSOLVES OUR LEANS, on their own bad loans that they give builders. they get first lean and then they can wipe peoples out.

        its totally backwards. I have been exploited , and then abused. this is satanic fragmentation. and what ever pride other Americans have, I just think they are full of it. we are 18trillion in debt and our federal gov is psycho, and now the local government is absolutely disgusting as well.

        the leaders in Nebraska, both Heineman and Bruning, are both a couple of worthless maggot pri.cks. And they are elite thugs . They deserve the absolute worst. the senators of the years past and the lobbyists for the banks, are a mob of thieves. I have been systematically robbed, and then aggressively audited. this is a tyrannical state government here in Nebraska.

        August 9, 2014 at 6:02 pm |
      • austin929

        and the sheriff shot doug in the face, a retarded senior citizen who actually had a job and a mortgage, who never committed a crime or had a trial. I will never be the same.

        as well as that my neighbor, he was in ww2 and he has twice, CONNED ME. they guy is a blatant con artist. did you ever read about how George Washington said the army was a bunch of dirt poor slobs? that they were just defiled and pitiful people, and he complained about it in his notes.

        all I am saying, is that we may be wealthy in the US even though we are broke, but from one man to the next, there is nothing that special that we should have gone an killed a million people. What repulsive thing for such a spoiled people to do to an area of the world that needs a peaceful solution.

        August 9, 2014 at 6:26 pm |
        • Alias


          If you were dumb enough to let the same person con you twice, then you are the idiot you sound like.
          Your friend was shot because he baracaded himself into a house and pointed a gun at the police who were justified in coming in.
          You are one of the dishonest jerks that give christians a bad name.

          August 11, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
      • evolveddna

        Vic.. no these are the god wars we are seeing..and to be expected when fervent belief in several one true gods" clash...

        August 9, 2014 at 6:29 pm |
    • ragansteve1

      I don't know any more than what I read, but Russia has enough on its plate. I am not sure I would lay this on it as well. I think the more logical explanation is that we trained a competent force in Iraq and Malaki removed most, if not all, of the competent Sunni upper and mid-level leadership. My guess is that many of those went to ISIS. I have read, do not know if it is accurate, some reports that say ISIS has grown from the few thousand members to tens of thousands. Those additional forces must have come from some where and certainly they are Sunni.

      Again, that is speculation, but based upon some reasonable information.

      August 9, 2014 at 6:30 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      The media outlets posit that the insurgents have exhibited surprising military skills and speed, I wonder if Russia has a hand in it, especially given the rapid deterioration of US-Russian relations since the Crimea Crisis back in March."
      The Russians openly back the Assad regime in Syria. ISIS is fighting the Assad regime.

      It is possible the Russians are playing both sides, one against the other, but there is nothing I've seen in the news to indicate this is the case.

      August 11, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
  5. austin929

    in a way I see your point, you have to have a lawyer, and Christ is the mediator between God and man, as God the father is Holy and will not be in the presence of Sin. That is why moses never saw God.

    1 Timothy 2:5 ►

    For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

    and Christ did tell us to pray to the father, but receiving the forgiveness that God provides is the key to that communion.

    also , the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the result of this conversion from sinner to saved. Christ is the redeemer.

    August 9, 2014 at 3:58 pm |
  6. khidir619

    The prophets were prophets and Jesus is Jesus? Did you really just say that? Jesus is above all of them? That's funny, being that you know ZERO about Jesus ' s life from 19 months old all the way to 29.

    August 9, 2014 at 3:35 pm |
    • khidir619

      That was for austin all the way down below.

      August 9, 2014 at 3:38 pm |
    • austin929

      Phil 2

      9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

      and gave him the name that is above every name,

      10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

      in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

      11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,

      to the glory of God the Father.

      August 9, 2014 at 3:39 pm |
    • austin929

      khidir, I am a diligent bible student. I can name all 66 books by memory in order. and this is all I am asking you.

      just admit that the new testament does not teach poly theism, the new testament teaches that Jesus was God in the flesh, that He was in heaven at creation, that He is the creator of the universe, and that He is the creator of all spirits,

      I cant ask you believe that it is true, but I can assure you and ask you to admit that this is what the New Testament is ALL ABOUT. not poly theism, but that Christ is the human form of God, and God's expression to mankind of His love.

      The New testament does not teach that Christ was a prophet, and yes He is the creator of all prophecy. Prophet is an understatement.

      August 9, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
      • khidir619

        Umm, I'm Muslim dude.I believe in the GOSPELS OF JESUS, not the New Testament. And as we all know the Gospels of Jesus were hijacked and chopped up thousands of years ago. None of us have ever read what Angel Gabriel believe truly revealed to Jesus. Calling anything else other than God, God, is just as bad, if not worse than saying he goes through the animal function of having a son.

        August 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm |
        • austin929

          God did not inseminate Mary. Christ was a divine miracle. No different than the indwelling of the Holy spirit, the baptism of the Holy Spirit

          again Christ was crucified on Passover and resurrected on the festival of firstfruits.

          Israel coming up out of bondage in Egypt, was the prophetic resemblance of freedom from sin.

          Isaiah 53 is another obvious prophecy about the lamb of God.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:02 pm |
        • khidir619

          Of course God didn't insemination Mary. Insemination is an animal function. God says "Be" and it is. Just like Adam. People say Jesus didn't have a father therfore he's God's son. We'll then what about Adam? He didn't have a mother or a father. You should worshipping him tenfold compared to worship of Jesus. Right?

          August 9, 2014 at 4:10 pm |
        • khidir619

          These damn Galaxy phones do what they want when they wanna do it. Sorry for all of the typos.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:12 pm |
        • austin929

          wow you are typing on a phone? that is nuts I cant stand that I have a fit.

          well the point about adam is interesting.
          From the very beginning, Adam’s relationship with God was dependent on faith and obedience to God’s word as absolute truth. This was the governing principle in Adam’s relationship to God in Eden. Adam was instructed not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16–17). Adam had to make a conscious, deliberate choice to trust and obey, or to disbelieve and disobey the Creator.

          answer to your question........the content of taking the word literally instructs us as to how we should view Adam, as a man through whom death came, vs. Christ, as it is written, who was God and conquered death, reestablishing eternal life, AND communion with God, AND furthermore, the ability to change man's sin from within the soul.

          the difference between Adam and Christ is unfounded, and it is written clearly. I am simply asking you to be straight forward about what the new testament truly says, and it is not anything about poly theism.

          Take it for what it says and reject it , just don't pervert what it does say.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • khidir619

          I already said down below that you can call what you do monotheism. My whole point is that Jesus didn't build the Earth. He was a carpenter. That didn't include universe building. Or making the laws of gravity or photosynthesis and all of that other good stuff. He was himself made and he himself needed his daily bread and water. If Jesus didn't drink any water he'd die. Anybody who needs their daily bread isn't eligible for worship. So the New Testament is monotheistic? OK. But it still falls under false worship in my religious faith. Therefore it's just as bad if not worse than polytheism.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:38 pm |
        • austin929

          that is the point. Jesus Christ said that He created the universe.

          a name for Christ is "the word of God"

          Revelation 19:13 ►
          He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

          1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

          Colossians 1:16



          16 For by6 him all things were created, lin heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

          "all dominions and spirits"

          August 9, 2014 at 4:47 pm |
        • khidir619

          Jesus said that he built the universe in the New Testament? Wow. But that's the New Testament. What does the Gospels of Jesus say? Exactly. You cannot possibly know. Any man or woman could've misquoted Jesus long after his death and long after his Book was hijacked.

          August 9, 2014 at 5:05 pm |
        • austin929

          is the gospel of Jesus in the Koran? or where can one find that?

          thanks for listening Khidir. I appreciate your willingness to look what it says and what we believe we are involved with.

          August 9, 2014 at 5:17 pm |
        • khidir619

          No, the Gospels of Jesus are not in the Qur'an. But what the Gospels were about (submission to God) is on the Qur'an. "Cliffs Notes," if you will, for the Books of Abraham, Moses and Jesus. That's what the Qur'an is. There's no need for the entire Gospels of Jesus in the Qur'an. The Qur'an makes it crystal clear that all these men submitted to the One Creator and warned the unbelievers the same. No more, no less. We didn't listen to Abraham, Moses and Jesus. We hijacked their books and actually went through the motions of killing one of them. So we got one last stern warning via the Qur'an. No more storytelling. Obviously the stories didn't work. Messengers of God are here for two reasons and two reasons only: To give glad tidings to the believers, and give warnings to the unbelievers. No more, no less.

          August 9, 2014 at 5:31 pm |
        • austin929

          "We didn't listen to Abraham, Moses and Jesus. We hijacked their books and actually went through the motions of killing one of them. So we got one last stern warning via the Qur'an. No more storytelling. Obviously the stories didn't work."

          can you thoroughly expand on each of these statements? I don't understand and I am interested in this .

          also, about the cliff notes........about the Gospel of Jesus, who wrote those cliff notes? cause it is not part of the Koran if it is cliff notes, and if the Gospel is not in the Koran, then it is basically what..........as mystical book?

          August 9, 2014 at 6:13 pm |
        • khidir619

          Cliffs Notes was in quotes for a reason. The Qur'an isn't the literal Cliffs Notes students use (or used to use, I'm getting old) for help with a book report. I just used Cliffs Notes as an analogy so you can understand how quick and to the point the Qur'an is with everything in so few words...When I say we, I'm talking about how mankind worked out as far as the treatment and following of our prophets and their revelations in its purest form. Obviously we didn't work it out good enough because there are still too many evil people in this world that are in public but should be incarcerated or dead. The Qur'an covers the Commandments of Noah, Moses and Jesus in immaculate fashion and also covers every life similitude with ease through parables in so few words. It's amazing.I would love to read the true books of Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus but I know I can't (even though I'll always have a smidgen of hope that these original texts are still safely locked away somewhere and get released soon sometime in my lifetime), which is why I'm so glad I have my Qur'an. It gives me enough. I'll catch the rest on the other side.

          August 9, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
  7. austin929

    I wonder what the world would be like is Sadaam Hussein was still in power.

    August 9, 2014 at 12:20 pm |
    • bostontola

      It's hard to know, but a world where Iran is in check and some of these terrorist groups are in check does sound attractive.

      August 9, 2014 at 12:26 pm |
      • austin929

        this is what I seriously wonder! the first diaspora saw Israel hauled as captives to Susa Iran, or Persian empire. The second diaspora saw Israel hauled off to Babylon, which is in modern day Iraq.

        the prophecy of the restoration of Israel promises to return exiles from every corner of the earth.

        would an anti Christ war, target these unknown people. for example, there are Jews who have been living in Iran for centuries . The same is true for Babylon, and I'm sure some have as.similated into Arabic culture.

        But is the devil persecuting God's elect through acts of anti-Christ apostasy, like Hitler did?

        August 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm |
        • LaBella

          There is at least one person here who believes Hitler was a tool God used because the Jewish people were "apostate", and thus deserved what they received.
          The other six million who died were sinners, anyway, so they deserved to die.
          And he based it on Scripture.

          Now, I don't happen to agree, but this does illustrate how one can reconcile commiting heinous acts with whatever Scripture their particular faith uses.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:08 pm |
        • austin929

          bella this is a sad subject.

          28“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

          this is Christ talking to Israel. Satan is God's tool for judgment.

          and ultimately, corrupt doctrine leads to corrupt practices.

          Christ has authorized no war for the age of the church, and His enemies are awarded a time of grace, mercy and patience as the kingdom is called to salvation.

          28“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

          That is where we are at.
          Deut 27:26
          "Cursed is anyone who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"

          This is the old testament law and the bondage to the law, to manifest sin. and then the new covenant, if rejected, places these people under the curse .

          August 9, 2014 at 3:28 pm |
      • LaBella

        It is sad. And I think that POV is wrong.

        I do not care. It's wrong.

        August 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
        • austin929

          hey what is POV?

          keep your chin up!

          August 9, 2014 at 4:51 pm |
        • LaBella

          POV is point of view.
          I'm finer than frog hairs, thanks for your kind words.

          August 9, 2014 at 7:09 pm |
        • austin929

          you're a princess!

          August 9, 2014 at 8:07 pm |
    • Reality

      Saddam and his sons were executed for their crimes against humanity. As will be the leaders of the ISIS.

      August 9, 2014 at 1:10 pm |
    • LaBella

      So do I.

      August 9, 2014 at 1:21 pm |
  8. bostontola

    Al Quaida, ISIS, Hamas, etc. behave in a similar manner to MS 13 and the Mongols. Criminal gangs. Once you join, you must stay or be killed. If you oppose them, you are killed.

    These terrorist gangs are also similar to criminal gangs in that the group brutality is the source of their power. They compete on the basis of who is willing to be more brutal.

    Criminal and terrorist gangs are also similar in recruiting of the troop level. They provide a 'family' for poor young people that don't feel part of something.

    The difference between the terrorist gangs and the criminal gangs is the motivation of the troop level. Criminal gangs are out for money, while most terrorists use religion and righteousness. That makes terrorist groups like ISIS worse. Religion and righteousness have been used for millennia to justify the most brutal behavior. ISIS has ratcheted up the brutality from Al Quaida. If they aren't stopped the next group could be even worse.

    August 9, 2014 at 11:01 am |
    • khidir619

      Absolutely. And they need to be stopped.

      August 9, 2014 at 11:05 am |
      • TruthPrevails1

        So you agree with this "while most terrorists use religion and righteousness" and this " Religion and righteousness have been used for millennia to justify the most brutal behavior" or did that go over your head? Awhile ago you claimed religion had noting to do with it but now you're agreeing it does.

        August 9, 2014 at 11:10 am |
        • khidir619

          All gangs operate in similar manners and they need to be exterminated. Which smokescreen they use is irrelevant. They all want that cash. Pretty much what the post said. And I agree. Yes, they're USING religion. They don't care for it though. They care for that cash money.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:17 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          How do you know they don't care for it?? Many take it to the extreme and firmly believe in what their holy books say. Your comment is so hypocritical...here you're saying that religion is being used but below you contradict yourself and say it isn't.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • khidir619

          How am I hypocritical???? I've clearly stated that these clowns USE religion as a smokescreen and I haven't moved away from that. If they were doing what their holy book said, then they wouldn't of did what they did, because the Holy Word says nothing about committing evil acts. It's their own selfishness.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Below you said that religion wasn't a motivator and here you're agreeing that it is...how is that not hypocritical?? Okay maybe not hypocritical but certainly contradictory and when one contradicts themselves, their opinions usually can't be trusted.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:29 am |
        • new-man

          he's not saying religion is a motivator or even THE motivator. He's saying the USE of religion as the motivator is the "smokescreen" that's being used to hide their true motivations – which include money grab, power grab, dominating over people and resources etc.; because in reality if people were truly motivated by religion then these occurrences would not take place.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:35 am |
        • khidir619

          OH MY GOD!!! LOL @ you. I didn't say religion was the motivator. Ever. I said they use it to cover up their crime. MP&P is the motivator. That's clearly been my stance.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:38 am |
      • austin929

        I think gangs are a type, but maybe you have to admit the supernatural power and force behind Baal worship, and for the sake of realizing the actual power behind the deception and will to see Christ as THE WAY.

        There is only one way to the father . Islaam is a religion that started with the bondage of Hagar, and a son born of flesh.

        God is spirit. And if the Son of God sets you free, you shall be free indeed.

        August 9, 2014 at 11:36 am |
        • new-man

          Austin, you are correct about the spiritual enti.ties behind gangs. these are things that cannot be seen, however their barbaric effects are more than apparent to the carnal observer.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:42 am |
        • LaBella

          I do know that of at least one gang here in the Chicago area have prayer meetings before they plot their next crime spree.
          I have always found this to be quite at odds with what they do.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:47 am |
        • new-man

          as Andrew would say, all prayers are not the same. Prayer in itself has no value – Muslims pray, Buddhists pray, etc. It's of no value because they're not prayed in the name of Jesus. One MUST come to God through Jesus.
          Just because someone prays doesn't mean they're connecting with God. There is no virtue in prayer, there is virtue in communication & relationship with God. (Now you know why most prayers are unanswered!)

          August 9, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
        • LaBella

          I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear; they are praying to the Christian God.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:09 pm |
        • austin929

          it does seem as if Christ, going into the temple and turning over tables, and teaching in the synagogues, did give special attention to the deceived.

          in regards to muslims or gangs that pray, I can't help but wonder if these souls don't deserve special attention and they are searching for something.

          Acts 13:10 ►

          Parallel Verses

          New International Version
          "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?

          This is the reality however so too was Saul.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:14 pm |
        • new-man

          I understood that from your post. It doesn't change my response.
          All prayers are not the same. God does not condone murder, theft, adultery, idolatry etc... so it doesn't matter how "hard" a person prays to God, these are not prayers He will answer.
          Matter of fact, I've said several times on here, prayer is not about asking God for things... prayer is communicating with God.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:24 pm |
        • LaBella

          And I am sure those religions you listed would disagree with you.

          How sure are you that God isn't answering these gangs? They end up thanking Jesus.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:43 pm |
        • new-man

          I know these prayers are unanswered by God because Jesus taught us to pray, and we pray that the will of God gets done in the earth realm as it is done in heaven. I can 100% as.sure you that there is no criminal activity in heaven. Heaven is filled with complete trust and confidence in God to provide, so no one needs to steal. Only those who don't know God, and have no confidence in His ability to provide will go and steal, because they have greater faith in their efforts than in God's goodness to provide for them, not knowing they are of more value to God than the sparrows who do not toil and store, yet are well provided for by God.
          If you doubt this, then you need to cultivate a relationship with God so you can understand His will.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:55 pm |
        • austin929

          Paul’s Hardships

          3We put no stumbling block in anyone’s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. 4Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.

          we give no offence = we don't take part in organized crime, and we avoid unintentional crimes

          Acts 5:41 ►

          The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:05 pm |
        • LaBella

          My relationship with God is fine, thank you.
          That wasn't what I brought up, and I don't think deriding other faiths in anyway addresses my original post, which I still find contrary to the teachings of the God they're praying to.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:06 pm |
    • new-man

      I agree with everything in this post...(except for the use of the word "righteousness" )...when you say "righteousness" do you mean 'right standing within the group'?

      August 9, 2014 at 11:12 am |
      • austin929

        slander the Godly virtue in every avenue. God truth phobia.

        August 9, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • austin929

          just like saying Hitler was "a Christian" they reject all notions of apostacy. " there is no such thing as apostacy because the religion is false"

          August 9, 2014 at 11:29 am |
        • LaBella

          Austin, Hitler may have been an apostate Christian, but he was Christian.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:03 pm |
        • austin929

          bella, that is sweet of you .. Its been going on two years and you are finally cooperating!

          this is a joyous moment! Praise God!

          August 9, 2014 at 1:07 pm |
        • khidir619

          Hitler wasn't a Christian he was a heathen. Christians don't murder. Blinded by the smokescreen too I see.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:57 pm |
        • austin929


          thank you for that! I am very glad you understand that. now is any death between Jew and Muslim a good thing? no its terrible, and you know that Christians should not kill, and have no authority to do so.

          This is who God is, grace and mercy and patience.

          Christ is the better answer for the world, and apostates pervert this reality .

          August 9, 2014 at 3:20 pm |
      • bostontola

        Sorry for not being clear. What I meant by righteousness, was exploiting humans' sense of right. People can be highly motivated to do right. If that sense of right is perverted by leadership, people will be manipulated to do terrible things in the name of righteousness.

        August 9, 2014 at 11:33 am |
        • new-man

          I actually agree with this; however I would leave it at 'being right' instead of 'righteousness'... As Austin said above, righteousness is a Godly virtue... one is Made righteous by God, and it's not a virtue that can be gained or bestowed by man.
          It may sound like nit-picking but it's actually not... however, I do understand your point.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:48 am |
        • kevinite

          So then there is no way a criminal organization recruit would ever include devotion to follow that organization religiously as opposed to only worldly-based motivations? That their feelings for following that criminal organization were that it was the right thing for them to follow that criminal organization? And so for that matter, there is no way that the motivations of a religious-based terrorist organization recruit would ever include for worldly-based reasons as well for following that religious-based terrorist organization.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:00 pm |
        • kevinite

          In regards to those recruits that the organizations leadership are not making pretenses as to their organization as being either religious terrorist or criminal terrorist.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm |
        • bostontola

          That is your meaning for righteousness. I tried to clarify, saying 'in the name of righteousness'.
          I was referring to the predominate drivers in the majority, not saying it was exclusively those motivations. All groups have some diversity.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:23 pm |
    • austin929

      they also, like Mexico, lack the fertile ground in the country side, therefore they have way less opportunity to become content in an agricultural setting.

      I think we take this forgranted as Americans. We think we can fix a society that simply lacks opportunity and always will lack that extra opportunity because it is isolated in a desert. look at las vegas.

      August 9, 2014 at 11:26 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      "Al Quaida, ISIS, Hamas, etc. behave in a similar manner to MS 13 and the Mongols."
      I'm thinking more like Daleks whose mission is to destroy everything non-Dalek.


      August 11, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
      • Doris

        I've not seen much Dr. Who, so I just checked out some pictures of "Dalek"s. Someone should use that design for a line of coffee/espresso makers.

        August 11, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
        • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

          Ray Cusick (Dalek designer), except from an article by the BBC:

          "People do say I was inspired by a pepper pot – but I always think 'If that's all it takes to become a designer then it's a doddle'."

          He explained that, in fact, the pepper pot detail came from a lunch with Bill Roberts, the special effects expert who would make the Daleks, when Mr Cusick picked up a pepper pot and moved it around the table, telling him: "It's going to move like that – no visible means."

          "Ever since then people say I was inspired by a pepper pot – but it could have been the salt pot I picked up," he said.

          August 11, 2014 at 6:56 pm |
  9. Vic

    Amazing how intensely 'sectarian' area that region of the world is. Amazing how much injustice there is in this world.

    I've never known about that group before until the President addressed the issue and ordered airstrikes back in Iraq.

    I guess Islam is showing its true colors more than ever in recent history, it is basically 'convert or die by the sword!'

    This reminds of the Armenian genocide by Islamic Turkey —Ottoman Empire— before.

    August 9, 2014 at 11:00 am |
    • austin929

      ◄ Galatians 4 ►

      New International Version

      1What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forcesa of the world. 4But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.b 6Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,c Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

      Paul’s Concern for the Galatians

      8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forcesd ? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

      12I plead with you, brothers and sisters, become like me, for I became like you. You did me no wrong. 13As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

      17Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them. 18It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always, not just when I am with you. 19My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!

      Hagar and Sarah

      21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

      24These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:

      “Be glad, barren woman,

      you who never bore a child;

      shout for joy and cry aloud,

      you who were never in labor;

      because more are the children of the desolate woman

      than of her who has a husband.”e

      28Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”f 31Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

      in other words, they are still under the bondage of the old testament way

      August 9, 2014 at 11:07 am |
    • bostontola

      Islam doesn't show colors, it's a religion. People of various sects use Islam for their own purposes. This has been true in almost every religion. They splinter into different sects and fight each other over which is the 'real' version. Christianity has a rich history of that. You could argue that the US wouldn't have formed without that Christian civil war.

      August 9, 2014 at 11:08 am |
    • LaBella

      I see similarities with the Amish, myself.
      And I mean absolutely no disrespect to them. It is just one of the first things that leapt out at me when I read this article.
      That, and ISIS is using the sane tactics the Romans did at Masada.

      August 9, 2014 at 11:52 am |
      • LaBella

        Darn it, same. The same tactics...

        August 9, 2014 at 11:54 am |
  10. Reality

    And again some wisdom from my collection of important observations:

    "The Two Universal Sects

    They all err—Moslems, Jews,
    Christians, and Zoroastrians:

    Humanity follows two world-wide sects:
    One, man intelligent without religion,

    The second, religious without intellect. "

    , born AD 973 /, died AD 1058 / .

    Al-Ma’arri was a blind Arab philosopher, poet and writer.[1][2] He was a controversial rationalist of his time, attacking the dogmas of religion and rejecting the claim that Islam possessed any monopoly on truth."

    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/resalat-al-ghufran#ixzz1lI6DuZmZ and http://www.humanistictexts.org/al_ma'arri.htm

    And from the topic: "Their religion is considered a pre-Islamic sect that draws from Christianity, Judaism and the ancient monotheistic religion of Zoroastrianism."

    August 9, 2014 at 9:55 am |
    • new-man

      3. Relationship with an all wise, all loving God.
      All the collective intellect & wisdom of all the learned men of earth is dung compared to the wisdom of God.

      August 9, 2014 at 11:20 am |
      • Reality

        Some examples of the "wisdom" of your god:

        (or did they all die as martyrs?)

        Number of god's creations who died horrible deaths from the following diseases:

        1. 300,000,000 approx.

        2. 200,000,000 ?

        3. 100,000,000 approx.
        Black Death

        4. 80,000,000–250,000,000

        5. 50,000,000–100,000,000
        Spanish Flu

        6. 40,000,000–100,000,000
        Plague of Justinian

        7. 40,000,000–100,000,000

        8. 30,000,000[13]
        AIDS pandemic

        9. 12,000,000 ?
        Third Pandemic of Bubonic Plague

        10. 5,000,000
        Antonine Plague

        11. 4,000,000
        Asian Flu

        12. 250,000 or more annually Seasonal influenza

        August 9, 2014 at 1:08 pm |
        • Alias

          Would you remind me what point you are trying to make?

          August 9, 2014 at 1:22 pm |
        • khidir619

          So? Religious people don't believe those things exist on the next plane. Religious people except the fact that this fleeting little life of ours is a punishment and we don't take the punishment personally.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:36 pm |
      • Reality

        What point? YOUR GOD DOES NOT EXIST !!

        August 9, 2014 at 2:40 pm |
        • khidir619

          Proof? You're the atheist. Science is your thing right? That should mean you understand the concept of proving direct statements. What you just posted was a direct statement, not a belief. Let me hear your proof that this universe wasn't created.

          August 9, 2014 at 3:00 pm |
        • Reality

          Proof enough for me that there is no god:

          That some god "created" diseases so that over one billion of some of his/her/its human creations could die horrible, excruciating deaths (see the table listed previously). Give us a break !!!

          Then peruse http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01 and https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/ as to the origins of life to include human life

          And added science reveals the following:

          1. The Sun will burn out in 3-5 billion years so we have a time frame for one scenario of the end of "god's" creation.

          2. Asteroids continue to circle us in the nearby asteroid belt.

          3. One wayward rock and it is all over in a blast of permanent winter with the loss of most if not all of "god's" creations as we all freeze and/or starve to death.

          4. There are enough nuclear weapons to do the same job.

          5. Most contemporary NT exegetes do not believe in the Second Coming so apparently there is no concern about JC coming back on an asteroid or cloud of raptors/rapture.

          6. All stars will eventually extinguish as there is a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the universe. When this happens (100 trillion years?), the universe will go dark. If it does not collapse and recycle, the universe will end.

          7. Super, dormant volcanoes off the coast of Africa and under Yellowstone Park could explode cataclysmically at any time ending life on Earth and your god's "creations".

          Bottom line: our apocalypse will start between now and 3-5 billion CE. The universe apocalypse, 100 trillion years? And there is no god involved in these scenarios.

           http://www.universetoday.com/18847/life-of-the-sun/
          Search for Paul, book by Professor JD Crossan
          Rabbi Paul, book by worProfessor Bruce Chilton

          August 9, 2014 at 4:23 pm |
        • khidir619

          And after all of that copying and pasting, you failed to realize that there can be another universe right on the "other side of the curtain" with fresh stars and places to live. So so what if our stars here burnout? All of those threats on Earth and beyond mean squat if we're given everything in due proportion by the Creator.

          August 9, 2014 at 5:18 pm |
        • Reality

          More from my scrapbook of essential theology and religious history: (Scrapbooks have been used for centuries for such items. Mark Twain actually sold scrapbooks on the side as a means to make money. Today we use Word.

          "I was so intrigued with this quantum mechanics that Deepak refers to over and over and over again in his books, that I decided to take a class in it.

          And what I found is-Deepak Chopra is full of sh__!"

          Julia Sweeney, Letting Go of God

          August 9, 2014 at 7:55 pm |
  11. Ed Sed

    That's exactly correct, saggyroy. Religion is and has been a major direct cause of a lot of violence.

    Also, watch out for Dalahast, who is a documented liar and word twister here. He'll be trying to twist everything you say as he tries to support his crazy religious beliefs, and he has a bad case of lastworditis too.

    August 9, 2014 at 9:19 am |
    • Dalahäst

      Religion has been and is a direct cause of violence. Yes. Not all religion. The principles of my religion do not support violence. I take a stand against violence.

      I've seen horrible violence come from people and societies who have completely rejected religion or belief in God.

      August 9, 2014 at 9:32 am |
      • austin929

        I find that liberals who refuse to understand and apply the doctrine of the great apostasy to the reality of the prophecy as possibly valid, that they create the same cult information the same way that causes an apostate to form views as Hitler did, or the crusaders or the inquisition.

        its all cult mis information targeting the sanct.ity of the Word.

        August 9, 2014 at 9:37 am |
        • Dalahäst

          I find that some Conservatives who subscribe to a strict fundamentalist outlook often fail to carry out what Jesus preached. Yet they claim they are.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:45 am |
        • austin929

          AMEN bro abide in the word and you see the light.

          what you are talking about is dangerous.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:57 am |
        • Dalahäst

          Amen. I look for people that provide evidence of this:

          "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." from Galatians 5

          August 9, 2014 at 10:22 am |
      • TruthPrevails1

        "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
        Steven Weinberg,

        August 9, 2014 at 9:38 am |
        • Dalahäst

          I disagree. I think it is human nature, not just religion, that can cause a good atheist or agnostic who rejects religion from committing violence, murder or a serious crime.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:40 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Human nature for sure but human's use the excuse of numerous things, including religion to do nasty things...the point is that you won't see a person doing something in the name of 'no god'.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:43 am |
        • austin929

          truth prevails. this is very true. I do agree with you. but the main challenge for all of us is to have a spiritually idolatrous relationship with error. It could be hatred, or it could be unforgiveness. It could be drunkenness. Evil starts with a small foothold, the then the desire gives birth to death.

          Sin is evil and the run riot, people will die from the tiny evils too.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:43 am |
        • Dalahäst

          You have to lie and twist words to commit violence in the name of God if you follow Jesus.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:47 am |
        • austin929

          2 Timothy 4:3 ►

          Parallel Verses

          For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

          matt 24

          24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:12 am |
        • khidir619

          No, for good people to do evil things, it takes that unnecessary and extra money, power and pus#y they want. Bad quote Mr. Weinberg.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:39 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: I'm sure he wouldn't give a rats ass about your ignorant opinion. You obviously don't get out of the asylum much if you deny religion as being a motivator or perhaps you still live in Mommy's basement and thump your bible daily.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:44 am |
        • khidir619

          @truthprevails: Of course you'll never see anyone doing something in the name of "no God." They'd have no smokescreen and everyone would see the light that they are simply motivated by their selfish needs. That works against getting more MP&P. It's all about the smokescreen when it comes to evil. Doing something in the name of "no God" would be counterproductive.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:46 am |
        • khidir619

          @truthprevails: 1) No basements in Florida. 2) I don't read the Bible, damn sure don't thump it. 3) Why does one have to be inside an "asylum" because they don't agree with you? Sounds like an asylum might do you some justice thinking like that. Keep on believing the criminals' smokescreen. That's how they succeed at what they do. Gullibility.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:51 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Have you never heard of someone doing something in the name of their god? People use varying things as excuses for horrific acts all the time...religion is definitely of those things-to deny that when history speaks for itself is pure ignorance.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:57 am |
        • khidir619

          Yes I've heard of it. I'm just not stupid enough to believe it. They're doing it in the name of MP&P, not God. To me, the only pure ignorance is to believe them.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:04 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: It doesn't matter that you don't believe it, history speaks for itself.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:06 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          The point is some religious people say they are acting at the behest of the ultimate authority....that is the danger.

          "Kill them all, let god sort them out".

          August 9, 2014 at 11:07 am |
        • khidir619

          Just because humans speak for history doesn't make that history correct. Isn't that what you say about religion all day, everyday?

          August 9, 2014 at 11:22 am |
        • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

          We don't even need to look at history it is happening now.

          It is the reason representatives of the Catholic Church can lie about the effectiveness of condoms. It is the reason some people work to marginalize and fight against equal rights.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • MidwestKen

          "No, for good people to do evil things, it takes that unnecessary and extra money, power and pus#y they want. Bad quote Mr. Weinberg."

          I guessing that such people would not be considered "good" in Mr. Weinberg's point of view.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:50 pm |
      • rogerthat2014

        What does your religion say about ra pe? Does it say that you ought not do it or that it's a-ok?

        August 9, 2014 at 11:10 am |
        • khidir619

          My religion? Who is this post for?

          August 9, 2014 at 11:29 am |
        • rogerthat2014

          That was for Dalahast, Austin, and any other Bible thumper.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:35 am |
        • khidir619

          That excludes me. Thanks.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:43 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          roger: kh isn't a bible thumper, he's a Karan thumper...jump one more brand of crazy. His religion teaches that women are property.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:14 pm |
        • khidir619

          Karan thumper. Who's Karan? Is she attractive? If so,let me know I'm a single Dad. Anyone's welcome.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:40 pm |
        • austin929

          khidir I have a response for you at the bottom of the page above the comment box.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:44 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          kh: Oops Quran Thumper. ..same as a bible thumper

          August 9, 2014 at 1:48 pm |
        • Dalahäst


          I am against ra pe. It is not OK. I've never heard anyone from my local churches, or any Christian community, promote, encourage or accept ra pe. One local church I support provides aid to women who are victims of r.a pe and other forms of abuse. It is an important program and helps all victims, regardless of their beliefs, status or place in society.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
    • austin929

      was Jesus Christ a religion?

      August 9, 2014 at 9:33 am |
    • TruthPrevails1

      Just Dala? We can add Austin, topher, awandeingscot....and the new dolt khidir619 who seems to lac the comprehension skills to understand that crime is an action and religion is the motivator.

      August 9, 2014 at 9:34 am |
      • austin929

        what is up man? hows your day going?

        August 9, 2014 at 9:38 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Yes Austin, It is a beautiful day without gods. We've had a week of rain...much like early fall weather-just perfect.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:41 am |
        • austin929

          do you have any seasonal allergies? that is awesome weather! instead of 102 .. it may shape up to be a cooler summer here too. we have had many days in the eighties compared to a long string of nineties.

          Jehovah Shammah

          Jesus loves you.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:46 am |
        • khidir619

          Make sure you thank God for that rain.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:16 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: Suffering from I.D.-10-T syndrome, are you? Since when do Atheists believe in gods or is this much like you thinking crime is what causes crime and religion isn't a motivator to justify crime-you making fallacious claims??

          August 9, 2014 at 10:31 am |
        • khidir619

          LOL!! That went over your head. You think I don't know you're atheist? Well your IQ must be 5,especially when it comes to sarcasm and jokes. Goodness Gracious.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:58 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: Wow, I see manners were never taught to you. I'm not the one denying that religion I a motivating factor...so safe to say your IQ is rather low. Go back to your cave.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:05 am |
      • Dalahäst

        It is just a few anti-theists that claim I'm a liar and word-twister. And this vocal minority is often hurling insults at anyone who believes in God. The mostly reasonable atheists on this blog don't resort to infantile and petty comments, which is admirable. EdSed is going to reply with more hateful comments and insults, which is unfortunate.

        August 9, 2014 at 9:53 am |
      • khidir619

        No. Money, power and pus#y are the motivators.

        August 9, 2014 at 10:09 am |
        • austin929

          angels were put in place to rule the world . and this is a human race for the soul as the time nears.
          money and power are fleeting.

          10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circ.umstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things

          August 9, 2014 at 10:18 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Religion is also a motivator and it takes a truly ignorant, uneducated dolt to deny that. Skip the arrogance, it merely makes you look like an ASS!

          August 9, 2014 at 10:23 am |
        • austin929

          here is a messianic kingdom prophecy from the prophet Isaiah, a Jew, who says that Ishmaels descendants will find favor through HIs salvation in the messianic kingdom.

          Isaiah 60:7 ►

          Parallel Verses

          New International Version
          All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you, the rams of Nebaioth will serve you; they will be accepted as offerings on my altar, and I will adorn my glorious temple.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:30 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      There's nothing quite like religion to rationalize one's bigotries.
      Anti-semitism, racism, ho/mophobia – pick your prejudice and there will be a sect that uses the inerrant, ineffable Word of God to justify it.
      The best thing about citing God as an authority is that He is never around to correct you.

      August 9, 2014 at 10:04 am |
      • Dalahäst

        Unfortunately I interact with some bigots on this blog that have completely rejected religion. Some people seem to have no problem rationalizing their bigotries in other ways.

        August 9, 2014 at 10:15 am |
        • midwest rail

          True. Given the percent vs population numbers, however, it is logical to conclude that believers rationalizing their bigotries via religion have a far greater impact in the real world.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:37 am |
        • austin929

          virtue phobia or Jesus phobia is more popular than other phobias. and Jesus is the restoration of the relationship with God.

          ◄ Isaiah 55:8 ►

          Parallel Verses

          New International Version
          "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:57 am |
        • Dalahäst

          I think claiming they do these things just because of religion is too simplistic. I don't think being a non-religious bigot is any better than being a religious bigot. In fact I see some atheists doing the same things that religious people do – and both scare me.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:54 am |
        • midwest rail

          Nowhere did I say or imply either was better. There is simply no denying that the raw numbers dictate that believers justifying their bigotry via religion have a much greater impact in the real world.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:03 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I think it is the mindset that is dangerous. Not all religious people are bigots, nor do their actions have a negative impact in the real world. People with bigoted mindsets, whether they happen to be a believers or atheists – or whether they use religion or any other means to justify their behavior, are a problem. This exists without religion. And some religions teach things that attempt to prevent this bigotry from happening. It is looked down upon by religion.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:49 pm |
        • midwest rail

          How many links will be sufficient to show you the tens of thousands who directly use religion to justify their bigotry ? I'm not saying that everyone who is a believer does this. Nor am I saying that there are no believers who fight against that type of behavior. Facts are facts, though. Your defensive posture is unwarranted.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I never said people don't use religion to justify their bigotry. I just don't think religion is the cause of bigotry – especially when I look at evidence showing that it exists within individuals, groups and societies that completely reject religion.

          I believe the religion I follow strives to prevent such a mindset. It is not acceptable.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm |
        • midwest rail

          " I just don't think religion is the cause of bigotry "
          Sigh. And nowhere did I say it was causal. Your insistence on picking nits with points that were NEVER made is maddening to say the least.

          August 9, 2014 at 6:27 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          I never said you did say it. Nor did I intend to say you suggested it. It is not about you.

          August 9, 2014 at 7:57 pm |
        • midwest rail

          Good grief. I can see a new reality show in the offing. American Nit-pickers. You'll be a natural.

          August 10, 2014 at 8:04 am |
        • Dalahäst

          Ha. I was thinking the same thing about you. Why nit-pick me.... and then criticize me for nit-picking? How is that not hypocrisy in action?

          August 10, 2014 at 10:09 am |
        • midwest rail

          Making a single point and restating it when you obfuscate is not nit-picking. Your insistence on being defensive about a simple, single statement is absurd.

          August 10, 2014 at 11:05 am |
        • Dalahäst

          You are nit-picking! And now you are being defensive about a simple, single statement, yourself. You should try to hold yourself to the same standards you judge others by.

          August 10, 2014 at 11:19 am |
        • midwest rail

          Nonsense. Your reply amounts to "You are so, ya meanie ! "
          Any criticism of believers or religion is instantly met with a flood of complaints regarding the behavior of anti-theists, whether tjhat particular poster is supposedly anti-theist or not. Any suggestion of a particular behavior on the part of believers is met with the same. Your defensive posture is absurd.

          August 10, 2014 at 11:43 am |
  12. dandintac

    What we are seeing with ISIS is what happens when religion takes control, acquires military and political power, and no one to stand against it.

    I see a lot of people, Christians, Jews and Atheists–bash Islam. With good reason really, it's a horrible religion. Although I still believe Muslims are enti-tlted to the same human rights as the rest of us.

    However, it's not just Islam that is a bad religion. I believe Christianity is just as bad. All one has to do is look at history to confirm this. It is often argued–"Oh, but it's not that way NOW." Well, to some extent. But are we forgetting the IRA and the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland? And how easy it is for us to look at what extremist Christian groups are doing in Africa now, in places like Liberia and Uganda?

    We in the west are fortunate. Christianity in the west–Europe and the US, has been largely domesticated by western secular values and traditions stemming from the Enlightenment. Concepts like "separation of church and state" "Freedom of Religion", "Free Speech", Democracy, "human rights" and so on. These values have become embedded in our sense of Western Morality, but they most certainly do NOT come from Christianity or the Bible, and in fact are concepts that our own extremists–when it comes down to it–favor only for themselves, not for "the others".

    The soul-mates of the leaders of ISIS in our country are the Christian Dominionists, also know as "Reconstructionists" who favor Theonomy. If the US were ever to truly become a "Christian Nation" and Christianity were to take total power, like Islam has in many countries in the Middle-East, these Dominionists would be the ones who would float to the top of the power pyramid. Here are some of the things they favor the death penalty for: adultery, blasphemy, apostasy, abortion, hom-o se-xuality. There is ample support in the Bible for all of this.


    Christianity has the same seeds of madness planted in its soil as does Islam and ISIS. Our ISIS counterpart is pounding hard at that Wall of Separation the Jefferson famously described, erec-ted by the First Amendment to our Consti-tution, and recognized by SCOTUS over the generations. They seem to be punching some holes in it.

    Muslim culture lacks the concept of a wall of separation between church and state. We see the result in the news almost every day. Let's hope ours holds.

    August 9, 2014 at 2:36 am |
    • Reality

      "There is ample support in the Bible for all of this."

      Only in the OT and even some of the Jewish faith are questioning said book. From my scrapbook of essential of religion:

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

      The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      August 9, 2014 at 7:37 am |
      • dandintac

        "Only in the OT"–Yeah, only in that whole first half of the holy book. It's there–isnt' it? It's all there. Kill gays. Kill adulteresses. Kill women who are not virgins on their wedding knife. Kill those who follow other religions–on and on and on ad nauseum. The Dominionists have everything they need in the Bible to justify their Taliban-like beliefs. And furthermore Jeus never said he was there to overturn the Mosaic law, but to fulfill it. Not to change it one iota.

        August 9, 2014 at 10:10 pm |
        • austin929

          would you please read the new testament again? I know that you probably hope that your interpretation of "fulfilling the law" means what you have implied above...............but it does not.

          The point is this, in Adam, through sin death has reigned, but through Christ we have been made alive. Eternal life has been restored, that eternal life that was erased by sin, as God is Holy.

          the comment about Christ fulfilling the law, is a statement that as He indwells your temple/ body with His Holy Spirit, that you will have the law made alive within you, you will be baptized with water ( total submersion into the freedom from sin), and fire (judgment of sin/ personal conviction of the Holy Spirit) and this is the internal law that redeems and saves.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:13 pm |
        • austin929

          and since we are not "under the law" the punishments for the infractions are forgiven by God. and this is a promise.!

          Your sins have been forgiven, and you will not receive the curse of the death. Now on the other hand if you reject the Lord's gift to commune with a God who is and will always be Holy, then you reject the gift of eternal life and forgiveness.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:22 pm |
    • austin929

      Didantic. I consider what you have said to be slanderous. I am not worked up about it though.

      when is the last time , can you inform us , that you read the new testament straight through from matthew to revelation?

      to compare Christianity to Islaam is a cheap shot.

      this is where you fail to have any discernment and credibility.....The bible clearly predicts in the new testament, that pseudo anti Christ deceivers , and the falling away of the church, will preceed Christs return. these types of apostates are satanic attempts to deceive the world and to prevent the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

      If you had the holy spirit, you would read the NT literally and find that we as Christians are called to be Christ like and to imitate the disciples and apostles.

      now which of those , from the New Testament were yoked to the military or killed anyone. Or said, "lethal force is acceptable"...................

      FIND ONE VERSE PLEASE..................

      August 9, 2014 at 10:03 am |
      • dandintac

        Austin–is the OT part of your Holy Book or not? Is it the same god throughout the Bible or not? Is God's morality timeless and objective and universal–or not? God changes his mind? God is a waffler? Did Jesus not say he was there to fulfill the law–or not?

        August 9, 2014 at 10:17 pm |
        • austin929

          the law was specifically not for the sake of a law. but because Adam made the choice to disobey God's word, The law is a tool for healing because it reveals mans inability to live perfectly as God planned.

          There was also punishment for breaking the law. so be it. There was so much atonement needed that there were basins for sacrificing animals, but the ones sacrificed on the altar, and the numbers were so great, that the amount of blood was atrocious and did this please God?

          absolutely not. the ritual became empty and superficial. the nobles became arrogant and full of pride.

          When Christ came to fulfill the law, as the lamb of God he took away our sins once and for all. and He gives us the holy spirit no, the best part, to change us within supernaturally, doing what the adherence to the law could not do. But with all of this, we are reminded that sin is real, as you can see upon the earth, and we are redeemed.

          Christ fulfilled the law, but this is not an external act in space. This act of fulfilling the law can only be realized within you , when you are supernaturally healed and sanctified, and declared righteous not by your understanding, but because the Holy Spirit within you declares that you are His child and son.

          Christ did not fulfill the law to prove a point for pride and recognition, He came to wash you clean from within. THAT is the fulfillment of the law within you.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:04 pm |
        • Alias

          this is so far removed from reality it must have just been a bad dream.
          Check your notes Austin, and see if you recorded it somewhere.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:10 pm |
        • austin929

          this is the reality of Christ fulfilling the law, and He was perfect and sinless, but it was not for His sake and pride that He laid down His life. It was for your sake........so why does it matter about the law , this issue of Him fulfilling the law.

          not just because He was perfect. but as you accept His presence, you are guided into truth and righteousness.

          Without you, there would have been no need for a sinless savior. The point is that the old testament was ritual. but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is supernatural and personal.

          If you want, I can back every bit of this up with scripture.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:18 pm |
  13. austin929

    in Genesis 16:6 it says that Sarai mistreated Hagar.

    Yesterday I talked to another bigoted gung ho Christian proud American. He said he worked with Arabs and they were dumb and lazy.

    a few months ago I talked to another elderly white man from a bible church and he chuckled as he said "Ishmael is like a wild ass of a man in the desert" and he was so happy and chuckly. Ive heard it so many times the chuckle.

    If you look at all the translations, the original king James version had the word "wilde" and then in about 1800 they started using the words donkey, and ass. Can anyone help me out here?

    August 8, 2014 at 10:57 pm |
    • austin929

      genesis 16:12

      August 8, 2014 at 10:59 pm |
    • Reality

      And Austin still has not found the Abraham, the myth and the historic Jesus and therefore his comments are moot to the discussion.

      August 9, 2014 at 7:42 am |
      • austin929

        reality, I have found Jesus. and if not finding something makes the discussion moot, then we should seriously question your judgment..

        isn't that the definition if ignorance? just saying........

        August 9, 2014 at 10:20 am |
        • Reality

          You found Jesus in your biblical, brainwashed brain cells. As noted many times, the historic Jesus resides in the following doc-uments and studies thereof. Obviously, your journey has just begun.

          o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

          2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
          – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication– and a review of each

          30-60 CE Passion Narrative
          40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
          50-60 1 Thessalonians
          50-60 Philippians
          50-60 Galatians
          50-60 1 Corinthians
          50-60 2 Corinthians
          50-60 Romans
          50-60 Philemon
          50-80 Colossians
          50-90 Signs Gospel
          50-95 Book of Hebrews
          50-120 Didache
          50-140 Gospel of Thomas
          50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
          50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
          65-80 Gospel of Mark
          70-100 Epistle of James
          70-120 Egerton Gospel
          70-160 Gospel of Peter
          70-160 Secret Mark
          70-200 Fayyum Fragment
          70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
          73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
          80-100 2 Thessalonians
          80-100 Ephesians
          80-100 Gospel of Matthew
          80-110 1 Peter
          80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
          80-130 Gospel of Luke
          80-130 Acts of the Apostles
          80-140 1 Clement
          80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
          80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
          80-250 Christian Sibyllines
          90-95 Apocalypse of John
          90-120 Gospel of John
          90-120 1 John
          90-120 2 John
          90-120 3 John
          90-120 Epistle of Jude
          93 Flavius Josephus
          100-150 1 Timothy
          100-150 2 Timothy
          100-150 T-itus
          100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
          100-150 Secret Book of James
          100-150 Preaching of Peter
          100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
          100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
          100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
          100-160 2 Peter
          120-180 Trimorphic Protennoia
          120-180 Gospel of Perfection
          120-200 Genna Marias
          130-140 Marcion
          130-150 Aristo of Pella
          130-160 Epiphanes On Righteousness
          130-160 Ophite Diagrams
          130-160 2 Clement
          130-170 Gospel of Judas
          130-200 Epistle of Mathetes to Diognetus
          140-150 Epistula Apostolorum
          140-160 Ptolemy
          140-160 Isidore
          140-170 Fronto
          140-170 Infancy Gospel of James
          140-170 Infancy Gospel of Thomas
          140-180 Gospel of Truth
          150-160 Martyrdom of Polycarp
          150-160 Justin Martyr
          150-180 Excerpts of Theodotus
          150-180 Heracleon
          150-200 Ascension of Isaiah
          150-200 Interpretation of Knowledge
          150-200 Testimony of Truth
          150-200 Acts of Peter
          150-200 Acts of John
          150-200 Acts of Paul
          150-200 Acts of Andrew
          150-225 Acts of Peter and the Twelve
          150-225 Book of Thomas the Contender
          150-250 Paraphrase of Shem
          150-250 Fifth and Sixth Books of Esra
          150-300 Authoritative Teaching
          150-300 Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
          150-300 Prayer of the Apostle Paul
          150-300 Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
          150-300 Melchizedek
          150-350 Preaching of Paul
          150-350 Epistle to the Laodiceans
          150-350 Questions of Mary
          150-350 Allogenes, the Stranger
          150-350 Hypsiphrone
          150-350 Valentinian Exposition
          150-350 Act of Peter
          150-360 Concept of Our Great Power
          150-400 Acts of Pilate
          150-400 Anti-Marcionite Prologues
          150-400 Dialogue Between John and Jesus
          160-170 Tatian's Address to the Greeks
          160-180 Claudius Apollinaris
          160-180 Apelles
          160-180 Julius Cassianus
          160-250 Octavius of Minucius Felix
          161-180 Acts of Carpus
          165-175 Melito of Sardis
          165-175 Hegesippus
          165-175 Dionysius of Corinth
          165-175 Lucian of Samosata
          167 Marcus Aurelius
          170-175 Diatessaron
          170-200 Dura-Europos Gospel Harmony
          170-200 Muratorian Canon
          170-200 Treatise on the Resurrection
          170-220 Letter of Peter to Philip
          170-230 Thought of Norea
          175-180 Athenagoras of Athens
          175-185 Irenaeus of Lyons
          175-185 Rhodon
          175-185 Theophilus of Caesarea
          175-190 Galen
          178 Celsus
          178 Letter from Vienna and Lyons
          180 Passion of the Scillitan Martyrs
          180-185 Theophilus of Antioch
          180-185 Acts of Apollonius

           4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –"The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
          5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
          6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
          7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
          8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
          9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
          (Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
          by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
          10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
          Presented on March 18, 1994
          11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
          12. Jesus Database with the example of S-u-pper and Eucharist:
          13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
          13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
          14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
          15. D-iseases in the Bible:

          16. Religion on- Line (6000 a-rt-ic-les on the hi-story of religion, churches, theologies,
          theologians, eth-ics, etc. religion-online.o–rg/
          17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT n-tgate-way.com/
          18 Writing the New Testament- e-xi-sting copies, o–r–al tradition etc.
          19. JD Crossan's c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT e-xege-tes in the last 200 years:
          20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by t-itle with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
          21. Luke and Josephus- was there a c-onnection?
          22. NT and beyond time line:
          23. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
          24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
          25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
          27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
          28. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
          29. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus

          August 9, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
  14. LaBella

    The Onion weighs in on this issue.

    August 8, 2014 at 10:41 pm |
    • austin929

      I don't know how to cut and paste on a dell laptop yet. ill read this though

      August 8, 2014 at 11:00 pm |
      • austin929

        no oppressed people anywhere on the globe?

        wow. what? he just arms through the cia rogue terrorist organizations that's all.

        August 8, 2014 at 11:17 pm |
        • LaBella


          If you cut and paste Bible verses, you can cut and paste this. Sane function.

          The Onion is a satirical site. As in, fake.
          If you believed it, I'm sorry.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:40 am |
  15. kenmargo

    No matter how you slice it, the people in the middle east are a bunch of co'ckroaches. The best thing to do is to let them kill each other and then kill who's left. They're miserable people that have zero joy in their lives.

    I have a question, where's Allah? Doesn't he see what's going on? I guess he's fallen alseep like the christian god did on 9/11.

    You want to know when this problem will be solved? When the oil runs out. These people export terror and oil is used to finance it. Once the oil runs out, we wont give a rat's azz about these people and they will slowly die from a disease because they refuse to vaccinate.

    August 8, 2014 at 8:11 pm |
    • Dalahäst


      August 8, 2014 at 8:38 pm |
    • harlow13

      It is difficult to admire anything you have said in this post, particularly the first paragraph.

      August 8, 2014 at 9:18 pm |
      • kenmargo

        Guess what, I'm not looking for admiration from you or anyone else. Lets call it as it is. These people will fight over the time of day. Sometimes you need to step back, evaluate and realize we don't need to step in this dog sh1t. For people who are as religious as the day is long, I've never seen so much violence in my life. We've had our share of riots in this country, but NOTHING to the level of these "peaceful Muslim people"

        Outside of terror and oil, what else do they export? So if the oil dries up? Zippo to terrorism. I believe I speak for many people. We're tired of them!

        August 8, 2014 at 9:53 pm |
        • Alias

          what about the violence America supports?
          Aren't we also in need of some good killing?

          August 9, 2014 at 1:25 pm |
        • kenmargo

          @Alias..I've never said america is perfect (Iraq war). Just about every country on this planet has a shameful event in its past. I'm just speaking for the violence they do to themselves. These "Religious" people that pray 5x a day, "Islam is a religion of peace" and so on. At some point the middle east needs to look at themselves and wonder why do they produce ISIS, Taliban, Al-Queda, Hezbollah, Al Asqa martys brigade, Hamas and so on.

          August 11, 2014 at 2:55 pm |
      • kenmargo

        Have you seen the level of violence they do to each other? Forget about the hate for Israel and the U.S.. Look at what they do to each other! Look at what Assad did in Syria, Saddam using chemical weapons on the kurds, Iraq and Iran 10 year war. Iraq invading Kuwait I could go on and on.

        August 8, 2014 at 9:59 pm |
        • austin929

          you sound prejudiced. "they" are no different than the anglos killing native americans. remember? the civil rights movement was in the 1900's ..............last century.

          bush killed one million people. the type of bias you harbor is a transgression .

          August 9, 2014 at 12:50 am |
        • harlow13

          Grouping a people and then dismissing them with a wave of the hand is certainly nothing new.

          August 9, 2014 at 8:04 am |
        • Alias

          Let's not forget all the bombings that went on in Northern Ireland.
          Good thing someone finally killed all of 'those' people to bring peace.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:27 pm |
        • kenmargo


          you sound prejudiced. "they" are no different than the anglos killing native americans. remember? the civil rights movement was in the 1900's ..............last century.

          bush killed one million people. the type of bias you harbor is a transgression .

          @Austin...............I said "during my life" I'm not that old. We have progressed a little. I never said we or anyone else is perfect.


          Grouping a people and then dismissing them with a wave of the hand is certainly nothing new.

          @harlow.......................I would love to group them as fun lovin' easy to get along with, wine and roses group. Is everyone a terrorist NO. Unfortunately I can't tell the terrorists from the good guys.


          Let's not forget all the bombings that went on in Northern Ireland.
          Good thing someone finally killed all of 'those' people to bring peace.

          They were working toward peace. Who's the peace lovers you see in this group. ISIS, Taliban, Al Queda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc, etc......

          August 11, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
    • khidir619

      Yea, and white people's body count is zero right? I love how you never mentioned that in your post.

      August 9, 2014 at 7:56 am |
      • kenmargo

        This isn't about race. It's about religion. Look at the "pro life" christians that ironically kill abortion providers. My earlier post mentioned the various groups (Taliban, Al queda) that middle east is so good at producing. I didn't mention how they have perfected the art of the suicide bomber. I'm not saying others are perfect.

        August 11, 2014 at 3:02 pm |
    • saggyroy

      When the oil runs out, they will export even more opium than they do now.

      August 9, 2014 at 8:00 am |
      • kenmargo

        Hopefully we'll legalize it by then.

        August 11, 2014 at 3:04 pm |
  16. Reality

    And the easy solution??? Wait for it...........................................ATHEISM !!! Details previously presented.

    August 8, 2014 at 7:15 pm |
    • workingcopy12

      Hey professor...you honestly think atheists are incapable of genocide? History would suggest otherwise.

      August 8, 2014 at 7:17 pm |
      • Dalahäst

        No doubt. Atheism just means you don't believe in God – it offers no easy solution for human nature. Anyone claiming that it easily does is out of touch with reality.

        August 8, 2014 at 7:25 pm |
      • saggyroy

        But we remove one more BIG reason to kill each other.

        August 9, 2014 at 8:02 am |
        • Dalahäst

          I wish that were so. Unfortunately atheists kill people for questionable reasons, too.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:11 am |
        • Ed Sed

          That's exactly correct, saggyroy, what you said. Religion is and has been a major direct cause of a lot of violence.

          Also, watch out for Dalahast, who is a documented liar and word twister here. He'll be trying to twist everything you say as he tries to support his crazy religious beliefs, and he has a bad case of lastworditis too.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:20 am |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "Religion is and has been a major direct cause of a lot of violence."

          I believe it has been human nature that is the direct cause, religion has just been the convenient excuse.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:27 am |
    • Reality

      And from my scrapbook of essential theology and the history of religion:

      The current state of affairs in most of the world:

      Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" are converging these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

      Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.

      August 8, 2014 at 11:56 pm |
      • workingcopy12

        You seem like such a lonely person.

        August 9, 2014 at 9:56 am |
        • Reality

          Lonely? Because I don't waste my time in some worthless church or temple? Give me a break!! The bowels of these places should make you want to barf from the idiocy and emptiness within.

          Might want to join me and my friends in watching the Perseids meteor shower coming August 11-13th. Or on our local golf courses to put some time-fulfilling meaning in your life

          August 9, 2014 at 2:59 pm |
  17. LaBella

    I am reminded of Masada.

    August 8, 2014 at 6:45 pm |
  18. Dalahäst

    "They (The Yazidis) are a closed community which accepts no converts and will kill a daughter who marries outside the religion."


    August 8, 2014 at 6:26 pm |
    • bostontola

      Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

      August 8, 2014 at 7:27 pm |
      • Dalahäst


        August 8, 2014 at 7:32 pm |
        • bostontola

          I can imagine in 100 years the things about today that people will say; Yikes!

          August 8, 2014 at 7:42 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Yes, there are probably things we both do that can be fit into that category.

          August 8, 2014 at 7:58 pm |
        • bostontola

          There's things I do that my kids go 'Yikes' today.
          : )

          August 8, 2014 at 8:04 pm |
        • Dalahäst

          Yea, I know how that goes!

          August 8, 2014 at 8:06 pm |
        • LaBella


          August 8, 2014 at 8:43 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Other fun Yazidi wikipedia 'facts'.

      "Yazidi are dominantly monogamous but chiefs may be polygamous, having more than one wife. Yazidi are exclusively endogamous; clans do not intermarry even with other Kurds and accept no converts. They claim they are descended only from Adam and not from Eve.

      The tale of the Yazidis' origin found in the Black Book gives them a distinctive ancestry and expresses their feeling of difference from other races. Before the roles of the *genders* were determined, Adam and Eve quarreled about which of them provided the creative element in the begetting of children. Each stored their seed in a jar which was then sealed. When Eve's was opened it was full of insects and other unpleasant creatures, but inside Adam's jar was a beautiful boychild. This lovely child, known as son of Jar grew up to marry a houri and became the ancestor of the Yazidis. Therefore, the Yazidi are regarded as descending from Adam alone, while other humans are descendants of both Adam and Eve."

      Okey-dokey then. Sons of "jar".

      * other word used

      August 8, 2014 at 9:12 pm |
  19. khidir619

    Isis is no different from the Taliban or the KKK. They simply use God as a smokescreen. They say everything they do is in the name of their creator. Yea right. Their motivation is the same motivation as every gang in human history: Money, power and pus#y. The problem is that so many people in the general public are actually dumb enough to believe these people, therefore an entire race and/or religion get the blame. This Earth needs a REAL world police. No matter what slab of land a gang is on, they need to be exterminated accordingly.

    August 8, 2014 at 6:17 pm |
    • realbuckyball

      Isis is no different from the Taliban or the KKK.

      Or the Nazis of 2014.

      Religion is so wonderful. Praise Allah.

      August 8, 2014 at 7:09 pm |
      • khidir619

        I don't understand your post. Please elaborate.

        August 8, 2014 at 9:39 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Religion in general is the problem!

          August 9, 2014 at 8:48 am |
        • khidir619

          No it's not. Crime is.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:12 am |
        • neverbeenhappieratheist

          "They simply use God as a smokescreen."

          Yes, all religion does that.

          "Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion–several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven...." – Mark Twain

          August 9, 2014 at 9:22 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: Oh my, that was moronic. Crime is the action. Religion is a motivator for much crime...comprehend???

          August 9, 2014 at 9:28 am |
        • khidir619

          @happy:Yes, man is many things. Because man was GIVEN that option to be many things, unlike other animals. Mankind has an option to range through the ranks through his/her behavior. If you're religious then you're not evil and vice versa. Evil men who's sole motivation is money, power and pus#y, and say they are religious are simply hypocrites and lairs but people like you believe them but refuse to believe the stand up civilians. But I do like the Twain quote. I like any quote that points directly to the fact that we were GIVEN things other species weren't and were the only ones to receive such treatment. Hypocrisy and evil is the problem. Flat out...@truthprevails: No I don't comprehend. Religion isn't the motivator of crime, evil is. You're just dumb and gullible enough to believe criminals posing as religious people.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:51 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: You're an ass and rather uninformed. Religion is a motivator and you're an ignorant, uneducated moron if you fail to see that.

          August 9, 2014 at 10:34 am |
        • khidir619

          Lol @ the name calling. I love it (clapping my hands and smiling). I'm an uneducated moron because I believe that cash rules? Try again.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:13 am |
        • LaBella

          How much "money, power and pussy" are dead suicide bombers receiving?

          August 9, 2014 at 11:19 am |
        • khidir619

          I don't know how much their families receive. I don't take part in those kinds of dealings. I don't know how much MP&P their gang receives after they die for them either. But looking around, it seems like a lot.

          August 9, 2014 at 11:34 am |
        • LaBella

          Looking around where?
          How does one convince another person to kill themselves in the name of God?
          Why would anyone kill themselves so a family member gets more "money, power, and pussy"?

          August 9, 2014 at 11:38 am |
        • khidir619

          Why they would do that is a damn good question because I wouldn't do it. How do they convince these young people to do this? I have no idea. Brainwashing maybe? These suicides are committed by the youngest in the gang, therefore probably the easiest to brainwash... Where am I looking? I can start right here at the belief blog and look at your reaction and the reaction of many others. The way you guys talk, these gangs must be succeeding at what they do.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:06 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          Cash is merely one factor. Extreme religious beliefs are also a factor. Austin or awanderingscot said on another article the other day that the people of Israel have the right to take the land of the Palestinians because it is foretold in the bible-it's that kind of extremism that makes religion dangerous.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:42 pm |
        • LaBella

          Where am I looking? I can start right here at the belief blog and look at your reaction and the reaction of many others. The way you guys talk, these gangs must be succeeding at what they do.

          I don't speak for others. I speak for myself.
          Please do tell me, based on the limited posts I have made here, exactly what you think my reaction is.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:52 pm |
        • khidir619

          The tone of your few questions gives it away as to where you stand. You don't need a ton of posts for me to see. I can almost see the look on your face just from the thought of Islam. You don't want Muslims around you and you hate monotheism. That's what I think your reaction is. And your beliefs. It's all in the tone. Tone isn't just in voice. It's in typed words too.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:51 pm |
        • austin929


          Jesus Christ is human essence of the monotheistic God. Islaam teaching you that Christ is no monotheistic, is a direct perversion and intentional mis interperetation of the New Testament.

          Christ is not a form of polytheism. you are being deceived for a reason.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:54 pm |
        • austin929


          Jesus Christ is human essence of the monotheistic God. Islaam teaching you that Christ is no monotheistic, is a direct perversion and intentional mis interperetation of the New Testament.

          Christ is not a form of polytheism. you are being deceived for a reason. and when you find out that I am correct, what would that mean to you?

          "son of man " is an ancient term that originated with Enoch, the prophet, grandfather of Noah.
          Jesus Christ is a form of Allah. if you will, and His spirit is the other form. This spirit is God's personal way of being with you.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:57 pm |
        • LaBella

          The tone of your few questions gives it away as to where you stand. You don't need a ton of posts for me to see. I can almost see the look on your face just from the thought of Islam. You don't want Muslims around you and you hate monotheism. That's what I think your reaction is. And your beliefs. It's all in the tone. Tone isn't just in voice. It's in typed words too.

          In other words, you base this upon my asking you what "money, power and pusay" is to be gained from a suicide bomber, (and I ever specified what religion that suicide bomber is) led you to leap erroneously to your conclusion.
          You're wrong, but that's all right.
          I was just questioning your oft-repeated "M,P&P" had to offer to people willing to die for that belief.

          Your tone is one of confrontational derision.
          Tone does matter.

          I truly could not care less what you believe, but it does seem that you are spoiling for a fight that I am unwilling to indulge you in.
          So, have a nice afternoon.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • khidir619

          @austin: Hah? How am I being deceived? "Father, Son, Holy Ghost. That's plural. Tell I'm wrong and that it's singular. No, I don't believe the Creator has a son nor do I believe he needs one. I believe I have a son. And my firm belief is any of my animal functions that u do, God doesn't do. We're way below the Creator. Bringing other things to his level is a former of polytheism. If He has a son, then the Son would look like Him (like mine looks like me)and eventually take over Him, negating the Creator of all things. Having a son is an animal function. I don't believe an animal made this rock. Simple as that. Jesus worshipped God and told the believers to do the same. If you worship Jesus, that's not the same. Are you worshipping one thing? Yes. But according to the good word, the wrong thing.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:32 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          "You don't want Muslims around you "

          Feeling a little persecuted??

          I, for one, do not blame all Muslims for the actions of the extremists who USE their belief to justify such hatred. If one is using their belief system as a motivating factor for them to fulfill whatever delusion they've had then they're using their belief system wrong.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:39 pm |
        • LaBella

          I thought that was odd, given the many battles I have had with Rainier over his bigoted behavior with Muslims.
          Khdir is new, so he would not know that.

          August 9, 2014 at 3:06 pm |
        • austin929

          5In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

          6Who, being in very naturea God,

          did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

          7rather, he made himself nothing

          by taking the very natureb of a servant,

          being made in human likeness.

          8And being found in appearance as a man,

          he humbled himself

          by becoming obedient to death—

          even death on a cross!

          9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

          and gave him the name that is above every name,

          10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

          in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

          11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,

          to the glory of God the Father.

          also the apostle John walked the earth with Christ, who is Jesus, and clearly stated that Jesus claimed to be creator and God. and so when you speak of the good word, how can you claim to know more than those who walked with Him.

          Yes Christ pointed to the father, of course, but the gift of His spirit, the communion with the father, comes through the new promise of redemption and salvation, the atonement for sin.

          Leviticus 17:11 ►

          Parallel Verses

          New International Version
          For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

          August 9, 2014 at 3:15 pm |
        • khidir619

          @truthprevails: If you blame one Muslim, that's one too many. So you're just like the rest of the bigots. Feeling persecuted? No. If I did, would I be wrong? No, not the way you people talk about Islam...@bella: I'm new? Really? Why am I knew? Because you've never seen this screen name before. Of of course, silly me, I forgot you're right about everything. I believe it was three years ago when I first debated with truthprevails. Three years is hardly new. Thanks for playing.

          August 9, 2014 at 3:21 pm |
        • LaBella

          I thought you were new.
          Ok, you're not.
          You're just looking for a fight.
          Have fun in your search.

          August 9, 2014 at 3:44 pm |
        • khidir619

          Not looking for a fight. I just have a day off from everything. And I have a right to right any wrong that's directed towards my religious beliefs. If you don't like the tone of my "fighting words," oh well.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:29 pm |
        • LaBella

          I agree; you have absolutely every right to defend your religion. And you should; I agree.
          However, I said not one word against your religion; indeed, everyone should be free to practice their religion as they will. So, there's that.
          Enjoy your day off.

          August 9, 2014 at 7:18 pm |
  20. Justin

    A more legitimate question is:

    Who is ISIS? Why should they not be sent to planet Mars for good?

    August 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm |
    • khidir619

      Because we have better plans for Mars. A good ol ' fashion dirt nap here on Earth will be just fine for them.

      August 8, 2014 at 6:19 pm |
    • Justin

      Not sure if we need "rocket launchers" as much as we need "people launchers".

      Some people are better off in outer space where they rightfully belong and need to be launched into outer space!

      August 8, 2014 at 6:49 pm |
      • neverbeenhappieratheist

        That is one thing I don't think I've ever seen, a Muslim astronaut. Maybe it's because they wouldn't know which way was east from orbit...

        August 9, 2014 at 9:19 am |
        • khidir619

          My point exactly. It's people like you that are the problem in this world.

          August 9, 2014 at 9:56 am |
        • TruthPrevails1

          khidir619: Wow, that's quite the judgment! It's people like you also who are he problem with this world...we all contribute, so skip the Holier Than Thou crap and be a better person!

          August 9, 2014 at 11:27 am |
        • khidir619

          "People like me"???? Whiffle Ball playing single Dads are the problem? Stop reaching truthprevails. The dude made a false, hateful and bigoted comment that you obviously also agree with. How is making statements like that compared to Whiffle Ball? His (and yours too apparently) thought process is a problem in this world. Wanting to rid the world of people like that is not a bad thing. Try again.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:15 pm |
        • TruthPrevails1

          I don't want to rid the world of anyone. I would however like to see an end to extreme religion so that humanity can finally live in peace.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:36 pm |
        • khidir619

          There is no extreme religion so stop worrying about something that doesn't exist. Worry about an end to crime and hypocrisy. If that ends,you'll have yourself a peaceful world.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm |
      • austin929

        well, technology is not the sign of virtue or purity, but we can indeed say that muslims are living out the reality of the "bonds woman" they are still slaves to the old testament curse of the law.

        and this is a dark slavery that they are not alone in. They are still in bondage. The answer is rejected.

        August 9, 2014 at 10:26 am |
        • khidir619

          I'm not a slave to anyone. But I'm Muslim. Please elaborate on the "validity" of your post.

          August 9, 2014 at 12:18 pm |
        • austin929

          khidir I apologize if you feel offended and I probably would if I were you at my language. I want to say that I care about you. also , Isaiah the prophet has this verse revealing our hope that the truth of Christs deity, which is the very root of your question here, will be revealed in mercy and grace through patience.

          Peace be with you.

          Isaiah 60:7 ►

          Parallel Verses

          All Kedar's flocks will be gathered to you, the rams of Nebaioth will serve you; they will be accepted as offerings on my altar, and I will adorn my glorious temple.

          .....this is the final messianic kingdom age to Jews and Christians, and Ishmaels 1st and 2nd born sons, and the word ALL means that the author, Christ, has extended his blessing to these son's of Abraham.

          By the issue of slavery I simply believe that Hagar is said to be a bond servant of Sarai. And in the sin of unbelief and human error, through adultery Sarah tried to go around God's will and have a son. and so "in the flesh", Ishmael was born and then Hagar was abused further by direct abuse and so she fled.

          But God has used Isaac as a vehicle to intervein with man, for one reason, to finally provide the lamb of God, and the holy spirit, which is God's true vehicle to live within you. and this is the opposite to the work of the flesh, this is the supernatural redemption through the spirit.

          May God provide you with supernatural truth.

          August 9, 2014 at 1:17 pm |
        • khidir619

          Why would that offend me? I have faith in the one and only creator. If you stick by him, how can things go wrong? Muslims stick by Him. And worship Him and only Him. And we FOLLOW (not worship) the ways of the messengers he sent to the best of our ability. Part of those ways is being a monotheist. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Ismail, Issac, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed (peace be upon them all and the others not mentioned) all were monotheists. They worshipped their one Creator. Good enough for me. So that's what I do. God said follow their ways. Obviously I take God's word for it.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:15 pm |
        • austin929

          I agree, and Jesus is not poly theism, yet moses was a levite. and the nation of priests and prophets were all about atonement and communion with God , who intervened thought the prophets.

          you mention those prophets not through oral tradition. rather through old testament writings. one thing is clear, and that is the reason that God had to intervene through prophets.

          I think a focal point that should manifest what this discrepancy is truly about, is your assertion that Christ is poly theism to the Christian.

          My understanding is that Christ in no way is poly theistic, that He is the human essence of God. And that His spirit is Gods glorious presence within the temple of the body.

          This is a monotheistic God who is omnipresent.

          John 1 New International Version (NIV)

          The Word Became Flesh

          1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

          Genesis 1:26 ►

          Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

          August 9, 2014 at 2:30 pm |
        • khidir619

          If Christmas is the human God,then what is Adam? Chop liver? What about Idris (Enoch)? What about Khidir (Green Horned One in Gospels)? What about Elijah (Elias)? If Jesus us the human essence of God, then so are they, meaning God has multiple children. You just cherry picked one of his Messengers and made him a son of God? No thanks. I'll just deal with the Creator and I'll be fine.

          August 9, 2014 at 2:45 pm |
        • khidir619

          *If Jesus* not Christmas. Lol

          August 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm |
        • austin929

          look Khidir. we take the word literally. this is not who those prophets claimed to be, but this is who Christ claimed to be.

          and that is what it says. fair enough? take it or leave it. the prophets were prophets, sinners at that. But Jesus was the Christ, the a lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world.
          Luke 13
          28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

          the prophets before Christ are in heaven and will appear , but those who reject Christ and die will not be in the kingdom. Jews, and others.
          Gal 4
          27 For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband." 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." 31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

          again, once more, the term son of Man, was coined by Enoch. and He was referring to the Lord and judge of all spirits. read the book of Enoch found in the cave of Qumran with the book of Isaiah.

          The new testament clearly says, by the apostle John, that Christ claimed to be the creator of the universe.

          John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made

          Philippians 2:6-8

          Christ existed in the form of God, but did not consider it robbery (a thing to be grasped – ASV) to be equal with God. He made Himself of no reputation (emptied himself – ASV), took the form of a servant and came in likeness of a man, He was found in appearance as a man, and humbled Himself even to the death on the cross

          Hebrews 1:3 ►

          Parallel Verses

          The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

          August 9, 2014 at 3:09 pm |
        • khidir619

          No matter how many biblical verses you show me it still doesn't change the fact that God judges my life and He is the one who calls the only shot as to where my soul goes. Therefore that's who I'm praying to. If a judge held your fate in a courtroom would you want to impress the judge or the person to their right doing the typing? Granted, yes, the typist is close with the judge and close to the judge. Who would you rather impress?

          August 9, 2014 at 3:50 pm |
        • austin929

          1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

          the entire new testament is about Christ, who is God and judge.

          Acts 17:31 ►

          Parallel Verses

          New International Version
          For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead."

          August 9, 2014 at 4:07 pm |
        • khidir619

          Then why in the world is there a "father.!!!" LOL!! If Jesus is doing all of the judging and is charge of everything, why even bother parents? What's the deal with the "father?" Everytime you mention Jesus, you also mention God. So what, you go to Hell for dealing with the "Father" only? What's so bad about Jesus' s "father" that we have to worship Jesus instead?

          August 9, 2014 at 4:21 pm |
        • austin929

          25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will sn.atch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can sn.atch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

          31 Again his J.ewish opponents picked up stones to s.tone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

          33 “We are not sto.ning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

          34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

          40 Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed, 41 and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.” 42 And in that place many believed in Jesus.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:40 pm |
        • khidir619

          You do know that Jesus came after Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses right? None of them claimed to be gods or called anybody gods. You have no idea what's in the Gospels of Jesus because you've never seen it and never will. Anything in the New Testament could've been written by anyone and revised again at anytime.

          August 9, 2014 at 4:57 pm |
        • austin929

          accidentally posted a new thread at the top. concerning the time table of the crucifixion being the fulfillment of the mosaic festival calander.

          nisan 14 Passover
          nisan 15 unleavened bread festival
          nisan 16 first fruits
          49 days later festival of feast of weeks

          nisan 14 crucixion......on Passover, rising up out of bondage of sin
          nisan 15 in the tomb, sin and death, leaven represents sin
          nisan 16 first fruits resurrection sunday, first born of God , fruit of the spiritual seed of Abraham

          this is the supernatural fulfillment of what moses went through 1400 years later.

          August 9, 2014 at 5:11 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.