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August 29th, 2014
04:47 PM ET
Italian paper: ISIS targeting Pope FrancisItalian newspaper Il Tempo reports that Pope Francis is a target ISIS has "in the crosshairs." CNN's John Allen reports.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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To be fair, if not for the Bible or other religious works at least as dubious, or stories told to you by people you trusted while growing up, you'd probably be without any sort of god or religion. You most likely wouldn't come up with such a thing on your own. It's not really your fault. Some of us would like to help you at least get your religion under control – such that it doesn't distort every aspect of your view of the world. A good start: God is Not A Christian: And Other Provocations by believer Desmond Tutu. Also, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, by believer Francis Collins. There are many believers who are able live with religion. Take heart. "We're all in this together".
Yes Tom, we are very thankful for the word of God and for being exposed to it through out our lives. It can be more difficult for someone who wasn't raised in a Christian home, but take heart, we received news that a 50 year old women was saved at one of our sister churches last week.
I have read many things including the bible and several other man made religious texts. Never once have I seen any "word of god".
Your bible is absolutely NOT the work of any god. No "god" would have gotten so much wrong.
I'm sorry you think that way. It may help, if you heard the word of God preached in the power and demonstration of his Holy Spirit.
I'm sorry you think that way.
It might help if you relaize that there is no evidence of any "gods' anywhere. No evidence for the thousands of gods men have worshipped.
Belief in that which there is no evidence for is called delusion, and I hope you see the reality of that.
You can get all the evidence you will ever need. God wants you to try him.
No RB, god certainly does not, and you speaking as if you speak for god is arrogant. I tried for years, decades, but what I saw in return was lies, hypocrisy, major flaws in the bible, and the same nonsensical belief in all believers...that they are right and everyone else is wrong.
If god actually existed and wanted to have me as a believer, he would have had plenty of opportunity...instead I see superst!tiuon, made up nonsense that goes against what we know is fact ( such as that whole Noah nonsense)
I searched for gods, and found man..at every turn.
While I am still open to whatever is really out there, all man made definitions of "god" are for man made gods, and yours is no exception.
There is something that we call reality, and all you have to do is open yourself to it.
That is so sad Igaftr. I can understand your reaction based on what you experienced. People lie, cheat, and steal whether Christian, or not.
May I just say that not all churches are bad. They are all inhabited by people who do things they shouldn't, at times. I hope you find it in your heart to give God another try someday.
Considering the fact that there is no evidence anywhere of any gods, giving BELIEF another try is a fools errand.
I hope you see clearly enough to give reality a try sometime.
RB
If you were born in India would be grateful for being exposed to the Vedas and your beliefs in the gods of that culture. See how that works? You are just giving thanks for your particular brand of brainwashing. Say hello to jesus if you go back to the clip joint tonight, hold tightly onto your wallet.
No admission or cover charge. No money needed. You can't buy what God is offering.
RB
You really do not expect people to believe that the joints would be open if they did not great delight in shearing the sheep? Good grief man that is what the whole scam is about, largest service industry in the world, all the religions combined.
I agree that there are those who use religion to steal. I hope you can believe that there are churches where money is not the focus.
RB
Got to love the way Christians can simply reject the history of their religion that survived the first 1500 or so years by every kind of evil that mankind can perpetuate. Of course all man made religions are very ugly, but the fact that Christianity can not get their sh!t together, hell the cults diss and fight amongst each other, is rather telling. Love thy brother is not practiced by your lot, just more BS. Try and figure out how many priests, ministers, parsons and hangers on make a living off of the scam, be honest.
I've already agreed that people steal in the name of religion. Can you believe that there are those that don't? Would you be impressed with a church where no one draws a salary? One where the only money donated by the members is used to pay the utilities, maintain the building, and help those in need?
RB
You left out pay their taxes, sigh. The point of my post is that you (Christian religions) only got to your holier than thou existence by every kind of evil that can be described. There have actually been people that do live the teachings of the bible in monasteries and convents, unfortunately RB, you are not one of them. So where did the funds come from to create your particular brand of the scam come from, not another miracle?
mr.brown: " It can be more difficult for someone who wasn't raised in a Christian home,"
yup i was raised in a "god-fearing" christian home...........i have such fond memories of them
beating the living carp out of me. yeah great christian home; oh fyi they were southern baptist.
It's surprising that there are still people that believe in the literal biblical account of creation and human development. Some people actually think the universe is only 6,000 -10,000 years old even though every independent field of science says otherwise. Physics of course directly shows billions of years. Astronomy shows the same, we directly see light that is billions of years old. Geology shows the same thing, we can measure the movements of tectonic plates and confirm continental drift. Layers of earth are consistent with these models. Closer to home, there are historical records that go back as long as the bible (Egyptian, Chinese, Indian, etc.) all using different languages and methods of writing that could not have had enough time to develop from one pair of humans.
I would think that this much reality would be enough to convince people that the bible could not be literally true, but no. That is one powerful meme.
People respond with isolated attacks on each piece of evidence. But how can it all be totally wrong? All these different fields of science being wrong in the isolated overlap with biblical claims, but right on almost everything else. This same science is the foundation of our transportation systems, bridges, communication systems, weather systems, navigation systems, medicine, etc. that all work daily.
You have to bury your head in the sand pretty deep to retain belief in the literal words of the bible.
Hey Boston,
It really isn't surprising to me. Most people have no, or very little education in astronomy, physics, or geology. When I came through high school, out of those three, only physics was offered, but not required. I took it and remember it being interesting, but that is about all. Suppose my education stopped there, on to work making a living. Should I accept the conclusions of others? For those without scientific training or interest, it only takes healthy skepticism to reject the idea of billions of years.
Hello Robert. It really is the responsibility of everyone to become informed on things they will use in making judgments and decisions. Some of us engage you and others to become better informed on what believers believe (and why). Some believers go out and read on subjects on which their religions presume to have the last word.
I agree and enjoy learning. Those participating in this blog obviously have the time and opportunity to learn, not that they will agree with some conclusions. My reply to Boston is probably more geared to those whose time is more limited.
Interesting perspective Robert, I does explain it.
So this is what the belief blog has come to – conspiracy theorists and whatever the Islamic equivalent is for a singing nun. My goodness. Since Jesus isn't coming by today, I guess I better get out there and do some yard work.
lol – oh – to be clear, my comment was regarding the comments below, not the video.
He came by today Doris. Sorry you missed him. Try going to church tonight, we are expecting him again.
There really is no reason to lie RB. Jesus, if he lived, has been dead for 2000 years.
I'm not pulling your leg. I had the opportunity to attend a special service last night and he was there, as well. You really should get out more.
No. While I believe you BELIEVE "He" was there, you can't show that was anything more than your imagination.
Jesus, if he lived, died 2000 years ago. To claim "he" was there last night is part of the psychology of self ( and group) delusion...a psychological phenomenon.
Your BELIEF was there, but you can't honestly say "he" was anywhere.
That nonsense is simply lying based on nonsensical belief.
Igaftr,
I could describe disbelief similarly, but I can't and won't, because I think you are being honest, I respect you as a person, and I have no desire to insult you. Give God a try, he is what you are seeking.
What you can't seem to comprehend, Robert, is that most atheists have given god a try. I sure did. Once upon a time I thought I had a nice personal relationship with god, but then I grew up and examined what and why I believed. I realized that what I had was a cultural habit, and that my "relationship" with god was nothing more than normal emotional responses that I chose to attribute to a supernatural being. Human emotions are extremely easy to manipulate. We can even manipulate our own.
Humans have worshiped literally thousands of gods. Every true believer of every one of those gods had exactly the same conviction you do. Yet there is not a single shred of real evidence to support the existence of any of those gods - not even yours.
Thanks tallulah...well said.
Yes Tallulah, there are many former believers on this site and yes, it is difficult for me to understand how someone can believe and then change their mind. I respect your opinion, but disagree that what I and others attribute to God is emotion. Some laugh, some smile, some cry, some shout, and some display no emotion externally because we are all different and we all react to the Holy Spirit in different ways. I think this is the key, where you equate emotion with God, I see it as a physical response to God. You see emotion as the cause, I see it as one of many effects.
Robert
I can elicit the same responses with music, meditation, poetry, a dramatic play or reading...no gods required.
You still haven't shown why you attribute these responses to god, when you can't show god exists.
You are coming from the standpoint of belief, but there is no basis for the belief, just a foundation of smoke and sand.
Will your Jesus really give me what I need, solid verifiable proof that "he" exists? Or are you just blowing belief based smoke again.....?
I agree that people have emotional responses to all sorts of things. I've seen people get more excited at a ball game than some do in a church service. All that proves is the various ways our flesh responds to stimuli. So, while I think that I detect the Holy Spirit, I really can't think of any words that would describe it. I suppose that is why it is termed joy unspeakable.
And since you cannot show this god to exist, nor any "sprit" at all, attributing things to this belief is nothing short of delusion.
For all you know, what you are feeling is Satan tricking you down the wrong road. That's the problem, you have no way of knowing, now do you?
Robert: I found it easy to stop believing in god once I honestly investigated what and why I believe. Perhaps if the judeo-christian god was the only god, it would be easier to believe. But your god is literally one of thousands, and he's not even the oldest still worshiped. Perhaps it would be easier to believe in gods if there were even the tiniest shred of verifiable evidence, but there's not. Not a shred. There is only myth and hearsay, the sort of "evidence" that wouldn't even be admissible in a court of law. No, it's very easy to stop believing in gods once you are willing to be honest with yourself.
You still call your emotions "god" because you are either not interested or are simply unwilling to even consider questioning your beliefs. Every response you listed was a human emotion. Human emotions are extremely easy to manipulate, especially in a group setting. We can even manipulate our own emotions.
Rb
Photos at the 11:00 PM news would be convincing, you delusional babbling is not.
Bring them with you. I'm sure the media would enjoy too.
RB
You are being deliberately obtuse, you are the one that said jesus was present at your special service, so simply provide some photos to share with the rest of us or stop making ridiculous assertions.
Perhaps some explanation would be helpful. When I said he was there, I meant in the person of the Holy Spirit. Do you understand, or do you require more info?
RB
Jesus was there in spirit, how delusional.
I'll come to a church tonight, Robert, if he will be there and if I may put my hand in his wounds.
I think he will give you what you need Tom.
So god is going to make an appearance and actually provide verifiable, tangible evidence of his existence? Just for Tom? Pull the other one, Robert.
He can still give you what you need too Tallulah. You may be familiar with the prodigal son, if you get hungry and discouraged in the far country, the father is waiting with open arms for your return.
There is no sustenance in fantasy, Robert, and no true comfort in delusion. Harsh reality may be difficult, but at least it's honest, and I was raised to be honest.
So take a picture and post it. Thinking about It, a video would be better. What better to convince non-christians?
Santa,
I haven't tried but I wouldn't be surprised if you could search YouTube and see some good services.
Pictures/videos of the returned Jesus? I think not, else I'm pretty sure some christian would have mentioned it.
dear ones,
i ask GOD humbly to Grant a special Help today, sunday, the last day of august 2014, to all those who firmly believe, and say that GOD does not have a son.
and to those who firmly say that GOD is the ONE only CREATOR of us all, and that Jesus was just one man that GOD Created.
GOD is not the father of anyone. GOD Is more Aware than any father, GOD Being Aware of all of us.
GOD Sees all of us, all at the same time, without that being hard for GOD.
GOD Hears everyone, if they speak, and GOD does not forget what GOD Heard, and from whom the words came.
GOD Is more Loving than any father. GOD Cares about all of us more than any father.
GOD does not have a mother, hence all must stop saying that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is anything other than a human woman that GOD Created a long time ago.
GOD Blessed us, and Is ever With us, however we do not see GOD during this life. people see GOD after death, if GOD Wants them to.
sincerely, jocelyn poesnecker
for wholesome songs and more-youtube and google plus: jocelyn poesnecker
Which god and outside of your bible/belief system where is said evidence for this god's existence??
What makes you think you're going to convince us? Most of us are recovering Christians and due to opening our minds and doing research we have come to realize that belief system you follow is so full of holes and lies it is not worthy of being paid heed to. The god you believe in is a monster and not worthy of worship. Perhaps an open-minded read of your bible and a sit down with the Tv Series COSMOS will help open your closed, narrow mind also. It is a good Sunday without gods...not all of us are so weak that we require one.
This particular one is muslim...she is as nutty as a fruitcake.
Honey hush.
So you're just here to spam your videos. Good to know.
God does not have a penis.
TTTOO
Neither does Theo, at least one that works the way it is supposed to.
Comes from being made in His image, or believing he is.
TTTOO
I understand, you are saying that god had one but it was perpetually limp, like Theo's.
that could also be a jehovas witness. there is no name or clarity
The name is there. She is muslim. She writes childrens books and sings songs, but is just as nutty as any other religious nutjob.
Jeebus this BB has deteriorated.
I come back hoping you believers would have come up with some new material, but it is still the same Bronze Age drivel you were spewing when I left.
A mind is a terrible thing to lose, to religion.
On the bright side, it is certainly another beautiful day without god(s).
It's a two way street. The atheists are still copying and pasting the same things they did three years back. But yes, it is a good day. With God.
Which "god" would that be? Oh, right, that thing you have imagined in your mind and call god....got it.
That may be so but the stuff we are posting is based on evidence not fairy tale books written by men to fool the gullible. Intolerance of religion is a good thing, It prevents the crazies from taking control!
Intolerance on either side is not a good thing, although it does make for some funny reading on this blog.
True enough.
Hilarious reading. You are right about that.
Opposition does not equal intolerance.
No kidding.
Obama is going to take your guns, but he will take much more. The plan his handlers have for him involves making a police state out of the entire country. You will soon see why the United States government has purchased 2 billion rounds of ammo and 150,000,000 plastic coffins.
They’re for you.
When the Jewish people no longer wanted God to rule over them, God gave them a king after their own hearts. He gave them the wicked King Saul. America has shown both in word and in deed that it does not want anything to do with the Holy God of Israel and His Bible, so God has given us a king after our own hearts. King Barack Hussein Obama.
Playtime is over, people. From here on in the noose around America will only be drawn tighter and closer.
As you watch your freedoms and liberties fall to the wayside like the chaff on the summer threshing floor, just remember one thing…
This is what you asked for.
lol. I assume you meant all that as a joke because otherwise you may want to take off your tin foil hat, put down the ar-15 and get outside your bunker. Guess what? You can still buy just about any gun you want here in the US, a little 9 year old just shot a guy in the head with an Uzi. We have in fact loosened gun regulation under this president so i'm not sure how you morons dyslexic brain works that you can see restrictions removed as being restrictions added, but it would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Smellie, if you want to rile people up, you need to make your fictions more believable. Dial it down some the next time.
Conspiracy theories are just that. That good ole president of yours is NOT going to take your weapons...your precious NRA would be screaming like a bunch of banshees if he did. What he needs to do is prevent nuts like you, Theo, Austin...from owning them-people who believe such crap are likely to be a danger to society.
Hopefully they will come for you first.
Be afraid Ellie, be very afraid......
I do like how you have tried to divide the country by saying there are only 150,000,000 coffins as if the plan is to wipe exactly 50% of America off the map, it's that kind of made up math that gives you away. And those coffins you are worried about, i'd be more worried about long armed white jackets with straps and buckles if I were you...
You claim Obama is going to take away your guns, so you attempt to lay the blame fully on him, and then in the next breath claim he has handlers...so which is it,? Is he responsible or his "handlers"?
You are a consiracy loon, and regardless of what happens, you will find a way to blame whomever you decide to, but you are basing your nonsense off of rumor, speculation, nonsense.
You are already blaming him for things that will never happen.
Grow up.
batpoopcrazyellie,
Be sure the nurse knows you're not in your room, so she'll know where you are at pill time.
BTW, show us the proof for the coffins. Oh. You made that up. Never mind.
Israel was a confederation of tribes. They mutually decided they needed a central authority because of military threats, (and their weak god was not good enough). So the tribes demanded a king, like their neighbors. The Bible is essentially nothing but political history and the record of political squabbles among the various groups of priests, and their prejudices.
So tell us why Obama is going to do all these terrible things, It has taken 25 years of ignorant Congressmen to make it possible to take our rights away from us, do you think Obama had that all planed out when he was 22 years old?
What you are predicting is a possibility but it will not be Obama that does it. When the enemy defeats America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible.
I'm guessing troll.
Retired FBI Agent Told Patriot Groups That Obama’s Feds Have Set Up 30,000 Guillotines
NTEB News Desk | June 20, 2013
The Coming FEMA Camps
“and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4
Shortly before his death in 2011, Ted Gunderson had this to say to Patriot groups across America in 2009. The story was originally posted on the Southern Poverty Law Center website. It’s one thing to hear this from conservative sites like Alex Jones or Drudge Report, but when rabidly liberal sites like Democratic Underground start reporting on this you know that the truth is starting to ooze out of Washington. Or leaked on purpose to prepare you. Hmm…
retired-fbi-agent-ted-gunderson-says-obama-has-30000-guillotines-federal-bureau-investigation
“We’re in perilous times. Dem Underground: In Pensacola, Fla., retired FBI agent Ted Gunderson tells a gathering of anti-government “Patriots” that the federal government has set up 1,000 internment camps across the country and is storing 30,000 guillotines and a half-million caskets in Atlanta. They’re there for the day the government finally declares martial law and moves in to round up or kill American dissenters, he says. “They’re going to keep track of all of us, folks,” Gunderson warns.
lol, because 30,000 guillotines are just so much easier to store and more efficient than 30,000 bullets. Have you just completely lost your mind?
Why even bother with guillotines anyway? Wouldn't it be easier to round you all up in the interment camps and zap you with the gay-beam you must assume they've been working on? Pew Pew! You're all transformed into gold booted, sequined cross dressing beauty Queens! but seriously, go get an education, obviously home schooling did not work out for you.
Too funny...the signs of a truly crazed mind but funny none the less. Please seek help from a MENTAL Health professional (not kermi).
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c n kRa
Isaiah 7:14New International Version (NIV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
now does Isaiah 53 sound more like its for sure for Jesus?
Psalms 22:16
Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[a] my hands and my feet.
Zechariah 12:10New International Version (NIV)
Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."
It's evidence the writers of the NT were aware of the prophecies (though not well in some cases).
The more correct translation should be "A young women will conceive..." not a virgin.
Making Bronze age myths match up with Iron age expectations take a little stretching of the imagination.
Required reading for Christianity 101:-from my scrapbook of essential theology and history of religion
o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject with a discussion of each docu-ment.
2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
– a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 T-itus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter
4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –"The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
(Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
Presented on March 18, 1994
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
12. Jesus Database with the example of S-u-pper and Eucharist:
faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/jdb016.html
13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
15. D-iseases in the Bible:
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_d-iseases_of_the_Bible.html?id=C1YZAAAAYAAJ
16. Religion on- Line (6000 a-rt-ic-les on the hi-story of religion, churches, theologies,
theologians, eth-ics, etc. religion-online.o–rg/
17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT n-tgate-way.com/
18 Writing the New Testament- e-xi-sting copies, o–r–al tradition etc.
n-tgat-eway.com/
19. JD Crossan's c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT e-xege-tes in the last 200 years:
http://wiki.faithfutures.o-rg/index.p-hp?t-itle=Crossan_Inventory
20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by t-itle with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
21. Luke and Josephus- was there a c-onnection?
in-fidels.o-rg/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html
22. NT and beyond time line:
pbs.o-rg/empires/pe-terandpaul/history/timeline/
23. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/pauls_life.htm
24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.
27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
28. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
29. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus
would you mind explaining each of those points just a little. one at a time so I can rebut.
In short, the figure in 1 Enoch referred to as “the/my Elect One” and “the/my Righteous One” (and these do seem to function as t.itles for the figure) is a remarkable instance of ancient Jewish messianic speculation
Enoch was the seventh son from Adam..
Why don't you just exchange emails addresses and reconvene your break down that way or better yet, research the stuff yourself? You're sounding ore like a 5 year old than an adult...not that that is surprising considering that you still believe in the fairy tales of the Christian myth.
The only thing I like about your whole list is that it proves that Palestine has existed for millennia. The rest of it is using the study of one book to prove the veracity of the same book. There is no greater farce in the world.
For Austin, (having difficulty posting, so trying line by line)
"Elam was a son of Shem and grandson of Noah and he was one of the 70 patriarchs of humanity mentioned in Gen 10. His descendants settled in what is now southwestern Iran and they had a flourishing civilization, which later became overrun by other enti.ties including the Persians (Parac) and the Medes (Madai).
Thanks for the information. What do you think became of this situation with Elam, son of Shem? Are they still in
Susa with people from the diaspora.?
Austin,
I have been unable to post the rest, will try again A.M.
Tallulah: It's funny how some of the most sincere bible readers are atheists. I'm not one of them, but many of the atheists here know more about the bible than believers. Sincerely reading the bible seems to create atheists
This is complete nonsense and repeating it doesn't give you much credibility.
Most atheists on this blog hardly if ever read a Bible. They repeat things they've heard in Bible school 20-50 years ago, or what they read on other atheists web-sites.
"Our att.itude toward the Word determines the place that God holds in our daily life."
Sincerely reading the Word creates "new creation/ a new man", one who [believes and] knows that God is Love, and therefore knows that the way of God is best; [one who believes] and knows that that Love, this Jesus kind of Love is better than reason, better than force, better than philosophy of man, better than anything that man can devise."
E.W. Kenyon
Read em and weep
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious
BatC,
how can a natural man know God intimately?
[Man in the Garden lived in the realm of the spirit. He had perfect fellowship with God. His spirit dominated him. Sin came and he was spiritually separated from God and His presence. From that moment man lived under the domination of his senses- they became his master. His spirit lost dominion the moment that he became spiritually dead, a partaker of Satan's nature.]
The real man is a spirit being, but the moment spiritual death took possession of his spirit, his senses dominated and his sin nature made him antagonistic to God. In essence, man is a stranger to himself.
Man cannot be spiritual unless he is a spirit. He cannot partake of God's Nature unless he is in God's class of being.
Man's mental contact is with the mental, his physical with the physical, and his spirit can only contact the spiritual. If man's reasoning faculties cannot contact God, then it's up to his spirit to make that contact.
Man's reasoning faculties are utterly dependent upon the senses. Sense knowledge is unable to contact his spirit in any intelligent way until after that spirit has been Recreated, received the Nature of God, and his reasoning faculties have been renewed and brought into harmony with the recreated spirit.
This is why atheists or any natural man can read the Bible yet not know God, worse, not know himself because he is a spirit.
Natural man cannot know spirit or spiritual things, so he cannot know himself, for he is a spirit.
E.W. Kenyon
I don't care who claims to know god, there is no reason to think you do. You are no different than any other snake oil salesman.
"Sincerely reading the Word creates "new creation/ a new man", one who [believes and] knows that God is Love"
Love? Read it again. You are suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
when the truth bearing spirit guides you into the truth.
Or not......
Too bad you don't know what the truth is.
You have belief. Belief is not knowledge.
That is not true at all, as a young man raised in a Christian Fundamentalist church I left the church and religion all together once I read and studied the bible on my own, without the ridiculous justifications and explanations being offered by the dogma of my church.
Then as I got older, I learned that many of the men that developed the dogma that created 30,000 different protestant religions were basically illiterate and knew little about the world other than what they read in the bible.
You do not have to be a genius to see what that has created in the Islamic world along with fundamentalism.
I even I, could be, may be, his Panic.
Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son and you WILL NOT Panic.
All others, including catholics and muslims will indeed fall to, just as they had yet again, into a State of Hysteria and Panic.
In such a State, Anxiety, Anarchy, brawls, fights, stampedes, revolts, revolutions, riots, violence etc. etc. & etc. do prevail and/or are the Norm.
Those who really, for real Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son WILL NOT Panic! Neither be part of or establish a State of Panic.
That is silly,
Same lame pun...There is a reason that comedians don't tell the same joke over and over and over ad nauseum.
Come up with some new material Hispanic at the disco...
Another failed attempt to refute what I said. Truth cannot be refuted, all you can do is try to deny it.
Yet another lie.
I didn't attempt to refute your nonsense. I simply pointed out that you have beaten that old pun into the ground, and it wasn't even clever to begin with.
Why does anyone bother to respond to austin as obviously he has not finished the required credits in the History and Theology 101 of his man Jesus. (Ditto for the required credits in Evolution 101.)
Because he seems to be one of the actual believers left on the Belief Blog.
With whom are us atheists going to blog with, ourselves?
Even u Reality?
Ya know what. That really hurts to hear you talk like that.
It was the shouts and wild imaginings of raving lunatics that went unchallenged thousands of years ago that created religion. Let us not continue to repeat this mistake.
Austin,
Have you looked up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism yet? This is a Christian concept.
yes I did google the suppression page and read it.
I also googled "Akira". Is that your real first name?
if you read the end of Daniel chapter 11..........it talks about Palestine, Syria, (north south) lybia, Egypt, and cush,
and then we have Gog and Magog......on the map I just checked that happenes to be magog (which to my surprise is Europe)????, and Gog/Rosh.
that's pretty interesting.
There's a Magog in Canada.
I wonder what news stations they broadcast in Canada. I never hear much news about Canada, they have a way different approach to their affairs.
Canada is cool. If I didn't live here, I'd live there.
lots of room there. I agree with you. I went to Bamff and Jasper. That's a bunch of driving. But it was awesome fresh air.
Canada has some of the best geographical names ever. I don't think anything tops Moose Factory, Ontario. I always wondered where they came from...
Austin: We get most of what you get when the CRTC aren't being losers and trying to limit what we view. Yes it is beautiful up here.
you are a Canadian? nice. is the weather cool?
Yes Austin I am Canadian, as are Doc Vestibule and kudlak and hotairace. We've had a colder than normal summer...climate change is a major factor here of course.
Why is that interesting?
Because it says that Satan will stir every one of those places up ,............antichrist will stir up the ones from Daniel,
and I need help figuring out Magog ,and Gog, Satan stirs them up to fight against Christ, but that might be at the end of the Millineal kingdom.
interesting thought, does Christ have a 1,000 year reign and then there are still deceived nations and a war with Satan?
a bit disheartening. Maybe Fred, or Robert Brown, or .any other believer can help me out...........or a theologian.
The Pope isn't the Anti-Christ, so there's that. ISIS wishing him dead isn't going to change that.
Oh. I guess that's interesting to you. Personally, I believe that the Middle East has been a violent place for a very long time, that people have a history of naming cities for religious places or people, and that you spend far too much time in your religious delusions. Your fellow delusionals should be able to help you out. Perhaps you should comment to them directly if you want sympathetic answers.
O.K Akira. are you catholic?
I really think the pope is a great guy. I like him. He seems very compassionate and sincere.
Austin,
I don't self identify as Catholic, no. Do you self identify as a Westboro Baptist? They're fond of making those kinds of claims. And the Pope isn't the Anti-Christ, despite what trash sites may say in their hurry to bash millions of decent Christians.
I despise bigotry, especially in the name of God. Idiots who do this are really no better than ISIS targeting those of the same Islamic faith.
" Maybe Fred, or Robert Brown, or .any other believer can help me out.........."
You need a lot more help than they could offer.
gog is satan, magog is his crowd of demon followers cast out of heaven to the earth Rev.ch.12 for a little while, (to ch.20) 1000 year reign of Jesus begins with casting satan into abyss, vs.3 after 1000 years let out for final test on "spiritual Israel" (God's people) natural Jews gave up chance when they had Jesus killed. why Jesus said to pray for his Kingdom to come and for his will to be done (on Earth as in heaven) heavens cleansed when gog ,satan cast out to war with God's people on earth for the generation Jesus talked about in sign of last days. those signs are being seen now, (see Matt.ch.24, Mark ch.13, Luke 21, 1 Tim.3:1-5,etc) so much more needed to show details.
"gog is satan, magog is his crowd of demon followers cast out of heaven to the earth Rev.ch.12 for a little while,"
So then. All mythical creatures. Not unlike Albus Dumbledore, or Severus Snape.
Magog is a nice touristy town in Quebec, East of Montreal. Lots of vineyards nearby. Great cheeses to be gotten there too.
bring in the clowns
if anyone is serious I will check back tomorrow. I love a discussion with sincere Bible readers, g'nite, j
It's funny how some of the most sincere bible readers are atheists. I'm not one of them, but many of the atheists here know more about the bible than believers. Sincerely reading the bible seems to create atheists.
Austin, no no no. The pope is not a nice guy. He worships satan. He is a false teacher and a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Austin,
I have a long response but cannot get it to post. I wanted to give some background.
Anway,
Magog is Moscow [Russia] – the most northern city to Israel.
According to a good commentary I have, gog is a word for ruler. It means roof. Together the man on top. Magog means head. Meshech and tubal are Russia. Taken altogether the head ruler of Russia. Ezekiel 38 1-2.
Divination and omen reading were forbidden. So anything Daniel says would have been meant for the people of that day. Before you talk about your gibberish, you must demonstrate and authenticate it's authority. You have failed in that regard.
Utterly.
You may as well post from Alice in Wonderland or Harry Potter, Austin.
Those are books suitable for children though, the book Austin follows isn't suitable for anyone or any species.
—Amuzgo de Guerrero (AMU)— Amuzgo de Guerrero (AMU) —العربية (AR)— Arabic Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-AR) Arabic Life Application Bible (ALAB) —अवधी (AWA)— Awadhi Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-AWA) —Български (BG)— 1940 Bulgarian Bible (BG1940) Bulgarian Bible (BULG) Bulgarian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-BG) Bulgarian Protestant Bible (BPB) —Chinanteco de Comaltepec (CCO)— Chinanteco de Comaltepec (CCO) —Cebuano (CEB)— Ang Pulong Sa Dios (APSD-CEB) —ᏣᎳᎩ ᎦᏬᏂᎯᏍ (CHR)— Cherokee New Testament (CHR) —Cakchiquel Occidental (CKW)— Cakchiquel Occidental (CKW) —Čeština (CS)— Bible 21 (B21) Slovo na cestu (SNC) —Dansk (DA)— Bibelen på hverdagsdansk (BPH) Dette er Biblen på dansk (DN1933) —Deutsch (DE)— Hoffnung für Alle (HOF) Luther Bibel 1545 (LUTH1545) Neue Genfer Übersetzung (NGU-DE) Schlachter 1951 (SCH1951) Schlachter 2000 (SCH2000) —English (EN)— 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) American Standard Version (ASV) Amplified Bible (AMP) Common English Bible (CEB) Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) Contemporary English Version (CEV) Darby Translation (DARBY) Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT) Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) English Standard Version (ESV) English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK) Expanded Bible (EXB) 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV) GOD’S WORD Translation (GW) Good News Translation (GNT) Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) International Standard Version (ISV) J.B. 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Wycliffe Bible (WYC) Young's Literal Translation (YLT) —Español (ES)— La Biblia de las Américas (LBLA) Dios Habla Hoy (DHH) Jubilee Bible 2000 (Spanish) (JBS) Nueva Biblia Latinoamericana de Hoy (NBLH) Nueva Traducción Viviente (NTV) Nueva Versión Internacional (NVI) Nueva Versión Internacional (Castilian) (CST) Palabra de Dios para Todos (PDT) La Palabra (España) (BLP) La Palabra (Hispanoamérica) (BLPH) Reina Valera Contemporánea (RVC) Reina-Valera 1960 (RVR1960) Reina Valera 1977 (RVR1977) Reina-Valera 1995 (RVR1995) Reina-Valera Antigua (RVA) Traducción en lenguaje actual (TLA) —Suomi (FI)— Raamattu 1933/38 (R1933) —Français (FR)— La Bible du Semeur (BDS) Louis Segond (LSG) Nouvelle Edition de Genève – NEG1979 (NEG1979) Segond 21 (SG21) —Κοινη (GRC)— 1550 Stephanus New Testament (TR1550) 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU) 1894 Scrivener New Testament (TR1894) SBL Greek New Testament (SBLGNT) —עברית (HE)— Habrit Hakhadasha/Haderekh (HHH) The Westminster Leningrad Codex (WLC) —हिन्दी (HI)— Hindi Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-HI) —Ilonggo (HIL)— Ang Pulong Sang Dios (HLGN) —Hrvatski (HR)— Hrvatski Novi Zavjet – Rijeka 2001 (HNZ-RI) Knijga O Kristu (CRO) —Kreyòl ayisyen (HT)— Haitian Creole Version (HCV) —Magyar (HU)— Hungarian Károli (KAR) Hungarian Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-HU) Hungarian New Translation (NT-HU) —Hawai‘i Pidgin (HWC)— Hawai‘i Pidgin (HWP) —Íslenska (IS)— Icelandic Bible (ICELAND) —Italiano (IT)— La Bibbia della Gioia (BDG) Conferenza Episcopale Italiana (CEI) La Nuova Diodati (LND) Nuova Riveduta 1994 (NR1994) Nuova Riveduta 2006 (NR2006) —Jacalteco, Oriental (JAC)— Jacalteco, Oriental (JAC) —Kekchi (KEK)— Kekchi (KEK) —Latina (LA)— Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE) —Māori (MI)— Maori Bible (MAORI) —Македонски (MK)— Macedonian New Testament (MNT) —मराठी (MR)— Marathi Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-MR) —Mam, Central (MVC)— Mam, Central (MVC) —Mam, Todos Santos (MVJ)— Mam de Todos Santos Chuchumatán (MVJ) —Plautdietsch (NDS)— Reimer 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(SQ)— Albanian Bible (ALB) —Српски (SR)— Serbian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-SR) —Svenska (SV)— Nya Levande Bibeln (SVL) Svenska 1917 (SV1917) Svenska Folkbibeln (SFB) —Kiswahili (SW)— Neno: Bibilia Takatifu (SNT) —தமிழ் (TA)— Tamil Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-TA) —ภาษาไทย (TH)— Thai New Contemporary Bible (TNCV) Thai New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-TH) —Tagalog (TL)— Ang Salita ng Diyos (SND) —Twi (TWI)— Nkwa Asem (NA-TWI) —Українська (UK)— Ukrainian Bible (UKR) Ukrainian New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-UK) —اردو (UR)— Urdu Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-UR) —Uspanteco (USP)— Uspanteco (USP) —Tiêng Viêt (VI)— 1934 Vietnamese Bible (VIET) Bản Dịch 2011 (BD2011) Vietnamese Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (BPT) —汉语 (ZH)— Chinese Contemporary Bible (CCB) Chinese New Testament: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-ZH) Chinese New Version (Simplified) (CNVS) Chinese New Version (Traditional) (CNVT) Chinese Standard Bible (Simplified) (CSBS) Chinese Standard Bible 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c n kRa
Isaiah 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]
Isaiah 7:14New International Version (NIV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel.[d]
Too long, too boring.
The Best Things Banned in the Bible
The Bible is a popular book with a lot of words in it. Many of those words are about things good people are not supposed to do, eat, wear, say, etc., if they don't want to spend eternity in Hell. But let's be serious: A lot of the things the Bible forbids are some of the things we want to do the most. Maybe the writers knew that? And maybe that's exactly why they're in there? Like, they wanted to somehow deprive normal human people of basic pleasures as some sort of form of crowd control? Or something? I don't know; I wasn't there.
1. Premarital Sex
2. Porn
3. Masturbation
4. Bacon
5. Mini Skirts
6. Cussin’
7. Cheeseburgers
8. Lesbian Porn
9. Lobster, Shrimp, Crab, & Crawfish
10. Threesomes
11. Remarrying After Divorce
12. Tattoos
13. Pigging Out
14. Getting Even
15. Football
16. Women Speaking in Church
17. Divorce
18. Gold Jewelry
19. Binge Drinking
20. Gay Stuff
21. Torn Jeans
22. Gossip
23. Seeing Psychics & Fortune Tellers
24. Escargot
25. Poly Blends
value.
something that I can share from experience is that if you have something valuable, then you cant afford to let seductive spirits creep in......because they are there to tear down what is sacred, and valuable and better.
If Christ was not risen , then we could justify hedonistic style of lives.
You don't like snails?
CS, is that you?
This is just one of the current cast of characters that belong to A.B.
No proof that Christ rose. Or even existed. No evidence that any of the thousands of gods humans have worshiped actually exist. Plenty of proof that religion causes violence, division and suffering. Plenty of proof that being a normal human being really isn't that terrible.
You can keep your made-up theology if you are so afraid of dying, Austin. I choose bacon.
Christ was crucified on Passover. That is evidence that Moses was also a prophet. Christ was resurrected, which would prove that Moses was a prophet, linked to Isaac, Adam, David, ....and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Frodo destroyed the Ring. That is proof that Hobbits are real.
"Frodo destroyed the Ring. That is proof that Hobbits are real."
I know, right? I mean, if Frodo hadn't destroyed the ring it would still be here and could be found, likely somewhere around the middle of the earth, so all those who don't believe, all they have to do is find the ring to show that it's not true and that the ring wasn't destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom... just like how the religious want atheists to prove God doesn't exist...
Ri.tu.al law is not a pre requi.si.te for Heaven. Besides that the mo.ra.l law if applied correctly is more complex than u make it out to be.
gruphy, why do you use periods to break up the words in your comments. It doesn't' seem you are trying to disguise offensive words.
From CNN:
...the nightmare continues for hundreds of Yazidi girls and women, unable to get out of harm's way, who are being being sold by ISIS to its fighters in Syria, according to a human rights group.
In the past few weeks, ISIS has distributed or sold about 300 Yazidi girls and women it abducted in Iraq, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group aligned with the opposition in Syria.
Interesting perfect set of absolute morality that religion provides. Absolute morality is superior to adaptive morality?
I would favor an all out assault against ISIS, ground and air.
Muhammed was the MOST immoral prophet in human history with over couple of dozens of wives and concubines.
Having been raised in a church and now having been away from religion for 35 years I have not found Religion to be a good basis for any kind of morality. The Closer they are to Fundamentalists the closer to amoral they are.
Yep. Any type of authoritarian control is an invitation to abuse, be it religious or political.
It seems to work that way, we are moving closer to that every day in America. It will be interesting to see how things change over the next few years.
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)
It's pretty well known that it's entirely possible (and not at all irregular) for a young woman's hymen to be accidentally broken due to accidents or even playing certain sports like gymnastics.
This also means that in order to enforce a rule like this, we'd need to have regular "Hymen Checks" at churches, but we don't, because we're human beings and we're trying to live in a little thing called "society."
But, the law is still in the book you worship.
If instead of worshiping dead Idols, they would believe and Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son they would not be doing what they do and saying what they say.
You worship a dead person and a dead book. It's hard to tell the difference between the various sorts who do that.
If you are seeing dead things all over, you may be dead also. Actually the Scriptures [The Bible] says so.
If they would just cut off their hands like they are suppose to, it would be difficult for them to fight.
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)
Trust in something that no one can show exists, so basically trust in belief, baseless belief at that.
I didn't know that trolls worshiped anything other than themselves.
That could only make sense to you. To everyone else that is what you do also.
Well this really can drive romanists to a State of HYSTERIA and PANIC. Panic does drive people to stampedes, brawls, fights, revolts, revolutions, riots, etc. All of which can create a State of Anarchy which can be just the same as an ISIS. Actually Catholics and Muslims share many things, they have more in common than they have differences. To begin with both religions believe Mary was a perpetual virgin. Their behavior and conduct when face with stress is just about the same.
All you have to do is look at the History of countries where both religions are predominant. The similarities are by far more than the differences. So I even I, could be may be his Panic, even their Panic.
That's because they [Catholics, Muslims] DO NOT Trust in God and in Jesus Christ God's Only Son.
The god of Bad Punnery and Random Capitalization has spoken.
Failed refutation. You may be now in a State of Anxiety, which can end-up in hysteria and Panic. That is as bad as the ISIS. Anarchy and Fanaticism will follow you for the rest of your life.
Oh I see, the argument of "No true Scotsman" that really make sense.