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August 29th, 2014
04:47 PM ET
Italian paper: ISIS targeting Pope FrancisItalian newspaper Il Tempo reports that Pope Francis is a target ISIS has "in the crosshairs." CNN's John Allen reports.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I'm able to accept and believe that humanity in the time of the Bible was in a low state by our standards today. No doubt my proto-Celtic ancestors were no better than most. But we've made progress in spite of the weight of the Bible on us. There should be a museum to remind us of that. And to show that we once burned witches, stoned people for adultery, and all the rest. Maybe we can recognize something of ourselves in ISIS, and, because of that, know why we have to do everything necessary to shut them down.
I agree. Ground and air, take them out. The next group that pops up is next.
We already do have museums that show us just that.
I wish more people would spend time in them with just your sentiments in mind.
Science and knowledge and reason combined with art and purpose have lifted us out of the Bronze Age and out from under the oppressive rock that is myth worship.
The problem is, the myth worshippers are still here, and have access to really destructive weapons.
dude that is assigning all problems in history to be a product of Israel and the bible ..........what you said. and that's pathetic and just complacent with every wrong doing.
how blindly contemptuous.
Because in the bible we believe Caan started a kingdom............that then you still demand the reverse, dispite the fact that there ARE NO CAANANITES AROUND ARE THERE? AND THERE ARE MANY HEBREWS.
No, Austin. I meant that the Bible and devotion to its every word as the word of God has held back many of us, encouraging ancient moral and ethical ideas that should have gone away long ago. Certainly there are other places and people troubled by other religions. And religion isn't always evil, nor is it the only evil in the world.
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)
It's pretty safe to say every adult (and God knows, every teenager), has committed adultery by this standard.
Some commentators think Jesus may have done this with all the commandments, to show them that they need a savior.
What did they need to be saved from?
Sin
I see. And who created sin?
The first human to commit sin was Adam.
A sin is only a sin to those that follow the particular religious groups rules. For others these things are not sins. Which is not to say that they are always good things.
Was evil inevitable, Robert?
Robert, that was not my question.
Yes
God created humans who were capable of sin. Do you think he created sin flavorful ?
Robert, which god are you referring to?
Alfar
Allah
Amaterasu
An
Angus
Anshar
Anu
Anubis
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apollo
Apsu
Ares
Artemis
Ashur
Ataegina
Atehna
Aten
Attis
Atum
Azura
Bacchus
Balder
Bast
Belenos
Benzaiten
Bes
Beyla
Bil
Bishamonten
Bragi
Brigid
Byggvir
Capac
Ceres
Cupid
Cybele
Dagda
Dagr
Daikoku
Damkina
Dana
Demeter
Diana
Dionysus
Disir
Ea
Ebisu
Eir
El-Gabal
Elves
Endovelicus
Endovelicus
Enki
Enlil
Eos
Eostre
Epona
Ereshkigal
Eris
Forseti
Freya
Freyr
Frigg
Frigga
Fukurokuju
Gaia
Ganesh
Geb
God
Hadad
Hades
Hapi
Hathor
Heget
Heimdall
Hekate
Hel
Helios
Hephaestus
Hera
Hermes
Herne
Hestia
Hoenir
Holda
Horus
Hotei
Hretha
Idunn
Imhotep
Inanna
Inari
Inti
Ishtar
Isis
Isis
Izanagi
Izanami
Janus
Jord
Juno
Jupiter
Jurojin
Khepry
Khnum
Kingu
Kishar
Kon
Lofn
Loki
Lugh
Ma’at
Maahes
Maia
Mama Cocha
Mama Quilla
Manco
Marduk
Mars
Mathilde
Mazda
Menhit
Mercury
Minerva
Mithras
Mitra
Mon
Mont
Mummu
Nabu
Nammu
Nanna
Naunet
Nehalennia
Neith
Nephthys
Neptune
Nergal
Nerthus
Ninhursag
Ninlil
Nintu
Njord
Norns
Nott
Nunurta
Nut
Odin
Osiris
Pachacamac
Pan
Pluto
Plutus
Poseidon
Proserpina
Ptah
Quetzalcoatl
Ra
Ran
Runesocesius
Saga
Saxnot
Sekhmnet
Selene
Set
Shamash
Shef
Shiva Thuno
Sif
Sin
Siofn
Skadi
Snotra
Sobek
Sol
Sol Invictus
Susanoo
Syn
Tefnut
Tengu
Thor
Thoth
Tiamat
Tir
Tlaloc
Tsukiyomi
Tyr
Ull
Uranus
Utu
Vali
Var
Venus
Vesta
Vidar
Vishnu
Vor
Vulcan
Weyland
Woden
Yahweh
Zaramamawe
Zeus
??
Jesus
Then my answer is no. I don't believe Jesus created sin.
His father perhaps, or did you have another in mind?
I don't believe in sin. I don't believe in gods. Therefore I don't believe Jesus created sin.
Ok, glad you reading the bible.
I'm sorry, Robert. Are you saying yes to "was evil inevitable"?
Why are you glad I am reading the bible?
2 Kings 18:27
“But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?”
I will pass.
The more one digs into the babble the creepier it gets.
Sometimes passing is all one can do, FlavorFlav.
I agree. The bible is full of mysterious grossness.
Rabshakeh was sent to Jerusalem by the king of Assyria. The verse you quoted was part of his speech to try to convince the Jews to surrender. People were talking rough long before you were born. Does this disturb you?
Yes Robert. Yes it does.
The human family has been dis functional for a very long time.
Some women may enjoy being considered weak, but it is far from universal. This is why women have fought for equality for generations.
Your god offers me NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING.
That is heartbreaking.
I do not know of one woman who "enjoys" being thought of as weak. I do know many men who enjoy trying to keep them that way, however, and would use God's Word to back up their view.
desire to strip a man of who he is intended to be and the further excuse to blame God.
double whammy.
Who is man intended to be exactly??
With all due respect, this makes no sense.
a man should be able to make a decision that honors God and is responsible and loving. And one that is correct and justified.
that would render a situation with the expressed goal of carrying on kingdom children who are equipped to live intentional lives as messengers of the gospel of love and peace. leaders in every life situation.
Austin,
So what is stopping you?
Surely no woman can. And you have to give her the sane right to find her own way, as well.
So basically, Austin, it's all about men and what they "need". And you wonder why I call the bible misogynist. You poor little man. It must really upset you that women have grown tired of your biblical BS and are demanding their rights.
Hey Labelle,
Are you aka as Akira from the pre wordpress BB?
If so, nice to "see" you again.
Hi, nik,
Yes, I'm Akira. I had that name post WP log in, too, but had my account inexplicably wiped out, for some reason.
Nice to "see" you, too.
Yeah, mine was wiped out so I had to add the extra K at the end.
Not quite sure why I ended up back here though, as it seems even more bizarre than when I left.
Nik,
It happened to you, too? Huh.
And, yeah. We've got quite the cast of characters here, these days.
Hi Akira!
Hi, CS!
He is quoting me without actually naming me. There are some women, generally christian women, who enjoy the perception of weakness. I don't agree.
this reminds me of a woman who I knew who was messed up from an abusive marriage, and I have never been married, and there was no way I was ever going have a chance with her with a situation where she wasn't biased against my gender in an emotionally hostile matter, she was permanently damaged.
I had no choice but to persue the matter not at all, or as a damaged situation, like a used car situation.
the devil and sin have messed this whole situation up.
I have nothing against Talullah or you Akira.
this situation cant be branded in any stereo typical way.
I fail to see what bearing this has on your OP.
going back to the government acting like police army in the midst of a subjective population. because of one bad apple.
the OP being the false premise of the Christ inspired "land take over" production of atoning grace.
The OP looked to be about the subjugation of women, which happens in other religions, as well.
I have no problem with men, austin. I like men, as long as they treat me with respect. What I don't like are men like you who try to tell women what they need and want. You want to pretend that you are an authority, but in truth, you are just a sad little man who pretends that religion makes you important.
Austin "quote-mined" my comment, which is silly because the full content is on this same page. Here is the full quote:
Austin? All your words do not make it okay to subjugate women. All your attempts at rewriting history do not make it okay to subjugate women. Some women may enjoy being considered weak, but it is far from universal. This is why women have fought for equality for generations.
Your god offers me NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING.
Workers of the world unite! Don't let the exploiters blind you with gods.
Il n'est pas de sauveurs suprêmes
Ni Dieu, ni César, ni tribun
Producteurs, sauvons-nous nous-mêmes
Décrétons le salut commun
Pour que le voleur rende gorge
Pour tirer l'esprit du cachot
Soufflons nous-mêmes notre forge
Battons le fer quand il est chaud
C'est la lutte finale
Groupons-nous, et demain
will
Sera le genre humain
C'est la lutte finale
Groupons-nous, et demain
L'Internationale
Sera le genre humain
Vivre la humanité et les travailleurs!
I read the new testament.
It said that Christ wrote it through inspiration. it says that revenge is for Christ alone. It says that evil will advance into a world power.
it does not ordain Christians to carve out even the smallest kingdom. Paul does not preach an earthly kingdom .
The new testament says this...............wait for Christ's return and spread the gospel.
That should have never offended anyone. its not a pre -return government infiltration. its not a mandate. its an invitation given in love for an eternal sanctified kingdom.
its not a war, not a tax, not a request for a donation, not a tax cut. and not an earthly rite. and it said it will be a cause for personal persecution from a darkening world.
Nowhere does it say Christ wrote anything. No scholar on the planet says he wrote any part of the many many varied texts that eventually were (non-unanimously) VOTED into the canon. You can find no scholar to quote that says Jesus wrote anything. Christ would not need to "be inspired" if indeed he were actually god himself. He could just write. The claim of "inspiration" (of just those texts) was never made at the time. Timothy said (before the canon was established), that ALL "scripture", (meaning *holy* writing) was inspired. (2 Timothy 3:16) . Is the Gospel of Thomas "inspired" ? It was according to Timothy, (where Peter suggests that Jesus turn Mary Magdalene into a man,, so she can participate "fully" in the *mysteries* ....Cough. Cough.
Someday, maybe you cultists will take a class or two in your religions, and not have to be schooled in scripture by raving atheist students.
Does anyone honestly believe that austin is real ? That he actually believes this nonsense that he trolls ?
I actually do. He has that fanatical pitch to all his writings, plus he seems to suffer from delusions of grandeur which would neatly explain the irrational arrogance. But I have been fooled before.
I agree with Tallulah, he is deranged and not just playing some shtick.
At first I thought he was some kind of troll, but no sane person could have their trolling so fleshed out for this long.
He is the kind of person who ends up dead in some mass suicide folllowing some whacko like Jim Jones or D Koresch.
Or killing multiple people in some abortn clinic.
Ah well, we'll have to disagree on this one. The world would be a very boring place if everyone always agreed.
Austin seems like a good kid, he just thinks out loud, in writing.
spiritual gifts........Corinthians ..........
the gift of discernment of spirits.
I am well equipped through my experience with revelation, as well as the field experience I have with seductive spirits, in recognizing when it's time accept persecution, imprisonment, or torture. I know for a fact that my Lord will reward me for obeying in truth, abiding in word, TAKING UP NO OFFENCE.
now that right there takes trust. being able to praise God when I'm being robbed 28k at a time, or being abused, or insulted repeatedly.
Christ has called me not to take revenge, but to suffer for the gospel. that alone honors Him.
2nd..........suicide............is actually a form of murder. my life is not mine to take. either is ANY ONE ELSES.
I believe austin is real. A real nut.
Every author of the new testament was a prophet. these people quoted to a degree of inspired perfection from the Torah, and other oral traditions.
theses were men who's priestly nation were DEVOTED to scribe work, and prophecy, with consecrated rigor .
The new testament was written to if you will by valiantly honored "33rd degree" scribes.
and they LOVED EVERY BIT OF IT.
Praise God.
Not one scholar ever claimed that nonsense.
Prove it.
So now Jesus *didn't" write it, but some scribes did ? We know all kinds of things about the authors. Very few were scribes. There was no Bible until late in their history. The Bible was never the central organizing factor in Hebrew culture. There was no such thing as the Bible as we know it.
Oh I forgot. If I capitalize something, and do a "praise god" it makes what I spout, true.
What garbage.
Praise the gods.
Isn't it a bit odd that Jesus never wrote one written word, not a single word for anyone to remember his message. He was never sketched, painted or sculptured or any likeness of him produced in any form. Finally, no one, not one person wrote a description of how he looked, ever. Very odd for someone who allegedly lived 33 years, was the son of god and was held in such high esteem preaching to the masses.
Maybe he was illiterate like his homey Mohammed and couldn't write.
Or maybe he never really existed.
I go with option B.
If he lived, he was probably a very normal preacher man, one of thousands roaming about at his time. Illiterate and not worthy of being described in any way.
UK PM: Police need power to seize passports of would-be jihad suspects, do you think Government is interfering in someone's belief to fight religious wars?
Most nations restrict citizens from involvement in foreign wars. Perhaps it's not a right you have where you are a citizen.
Governments don't have the right to legislate beliefs, but it can legislate what actions are illegal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU9MbXueRFg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU9MbXueRFg
Somewhat off topic:
Many of the books listed at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html will help you heal as you escape the brainwashing that most of us were bred and born into. The authors of these books have thoroughly evaluated the gospels, epistles and associated docu-ments written in the mid first century to early third century CE and have done an excellent job in separating truth (e.g. the crucifixion) from fiction (e.g. the resurrection) and embellishment ( e.g. the Last Supper).
Many of these docu-ments are on-line. See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ for your own perusal.
Happy Labor Day
You as well
Gods invitation to you:
If you are thirsty, come and drink water! If you don’t have any money, come, eat what you want!
Drink wine and milk
without paying a cent. Why waste your money on what really isn’t food?
Why work hard for something that doesn’t satisfy?
Listen carefully to me,and you will enjoy the very best foods.
Pay close attention! Come to me and live.
I will promise youthe eternal love and loyalty that I promised David.
I made him the leader and ruler of the nations;he was my witness to them.
You will call out to nations you have never known.
And they have never known you,but they will come running because I am the Lord, the holy God of Israel,
and I have honored you.
Turn to the Lord!
He can still be found.
Call out to God! He is near.
Give up your crooked ways and your evil thoughts.
Return to the Lord our God.
He will be merciful
and forgive your sins.
The Lord says:
“My thoughts and my ways
are not like yours.
Just as the heavens are higher than the earth,
my thoughts and my ways are higher than yours.
“Rain and snow fall from the sky.
But they don’t return without watering the earth
that produces seeds to plant and grain to eat.
That’s how it is with my words.
They don’t return to me
without doing everything
I send them to do.”
When you are set free,
you will celebrate
and travel home in peace.
Mountains and hills will sing
as you pass by,
and trees will clap.
Cypress and myrtle trees
will grow in fields
once covered by thorns.
And then those trees will stand
as a lasting witness
to the glory of the Lord.
You are not invited to live free of gods. You don't need an invitation. You were free of gods the day you were born. Don't wait for an invitation to walk into true intellectual freedom. Start asking questions. Think critically. Look for clarity and a rational basis for ethical living.
Intellectual freedom? How could someones thoughts be rescricted?
You didn't attend religious school as a child did you...
No, I didn't, but even if you did, they still couldn't rescrict your thoughts. I'm not sure I can even control my own thoughts at times. How could someone else control them?
Intellectual freedom isn't strictly about controlling thoughts, it can be shaming people for asking questions. Or patronizing individuals with concerns or ideas. When done to a child from an adult authority it is most certainly restricting their intellectual freedom.
Ok, I see what you mean. You are really describing influence. I agree, even the power of suggestion, can have a lot of influence. I think it is important to encourage questions, especially from young folks. Doubts and questions can be great faith builders.
Robert, are there thoughts, ideas, or points of view that you would avoid (our others you might cultivate) in your own mind because of your relationship with your God? Because of how it's changed you? Because of what you believe it wants of you?
Yes, yes, and yes.
Then imagine for a moment that your God is a product of your imagination, an idea you've had. You've given it power over much of your intellectual life. Perhaps irreversibly, because of the system of rewards and punishments that go along with it. In a way, you've locked yourself away from a lot of things, good and bad. You are your prisoner.
I should have added: you are number 6.
True, if God is a product of my imagination, I'm mine own prisoner.
So how do I meet this Lord of yours? How will I recognize him when we meet?
Hear his word preached in the power and demonstration of the Holy Spirit.
People proclaiming their belief is not evidence of a god – only of their belief.
True, but it is through this demonstration that the word and spirit of God works.
So go to church (which one?) and pretend what I'm hearing is real and has some truth to it. No Thanks.
I prefer Protestant. Do you have Christian friends? Pretending probably wouldn't be a good idea. Just listen.
How come all of god's invitations originate from other people? Can't he handle inviting people himself?
God does use people to spread the good news, but God makes his offer in person. I really don't understand why he calls people to preach his word.
When god makes his offer in person I will consider it...but he has had plenty of chances.
Do you hear the word preached often?
I have heard it plenty....but my point is I shouldn't have to rely on other people telling me about god.
Where two or three are gathered in his name, there he is in the midst.
Exactly my point.
So first I have to believe, then I will know that the bible proves itself.
Right?
I think someone could have some level of faith without God revealing himself to them, but for a deep abiding faith, God must do his work.
So god did it's work revealing itself to you and others of you ilk, yet was nowhere to be found during Sandy Hook, or any other mass killing.
I suppose it has too many home runs and touchdowns to watch over and just does not have time for those "others" events.
Oh yeah, I forgot, god is only responsible for the good things, never the bad.
Nik,
Ilk? What in the world?
Why God allows bad things to happen? I don't know. I can only speak of my own experiences and sure don't know why he allows tragedies. In my life, God has allowed things to happen to bring me to him.
Then why Robert do you xtians always say "god did it" when something good happens, but never give it any credit/fault when bad things happen?
Also, do you afford the same to the Hindu when he claims Gannsh revealed itself to him and hooked him up with something he had prayed for?
Or any number of other gods out there that people worship that is not yours?
You know, Robert, I don't need all those bells and whistles. All I ask for is irrefutable evidence that your god exists. Religion makes a lot of promises, but when the time comes to provide evidence, it just keeps coming up empty.
well stated mam.
I agree with you too that evidence is nice. and I encourage you to seek out the Holy Spirit, under the premise the problems that we face personally are the effects of sin and He is the Healer.
the Holy Spirit is a TRUTH BEARING SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit can give you evidence if you genuinely want the evidence to come from God.
the personal aspect to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, brings you glory and glorifies God, because this is His greatest pleasure there is, and its knowing you personally and helping you grow spiritually into someone who trusts Him.
and that is why, I cant give you proof. He wont have it that way. He gives the proof to those who seek it FROM HIM.
SEEK HIM. SEEK HIS LOVE.
I did seek the "holy spirit" austin. It wasn't there. What you have found are emotions and feelings that you have named "holy spirit". What you have are delusions of grandeur that are enabled by your religious faith.
Talullah...I have respect for you so I will try say what I believe is true.
that's almost hard to believe.......because you still blame the Indian's loss of territory on "Christians" instead of the "white man".
That's a bit of a sign that you choose to pervert the bible as well as the name of Christianity.
Christianity did not take the land.
you are still insulting Christ...........due to what rosicrucian masons did. and that is understandable since you aren't all knowing........
but how can you seek the spirit of truth in that way?
I don't think you even comprehend what truth is, Austin. There is no evidence at all to support the existence of your god. That is the truth. You obviously have embraced religion because it supplies some sort of emotional component that your life lacks otherwise. It certainly supplies you with delusions of self-importance. But I don't want that. I certainly don't need that.
Christians took the land, Austin. Look up "Manifest Destiny." They took it by conquest and did their best to commit genocide. Those natives they could not kill by war or disease, they forced onto reservations. They did their damnedest to destroy indigenous cultures. In some places, children were kidnapped from their families and forced into christian boarding schools, where they were forbidden to speak their own language or worship their own gods. This is what your fellow christians did, whether you will admit it or not.
You keep trying to rewrite history but the only person you fool is yourself. Instead of making up excuses, why not try to be an honest person, Austin? Isn't lying a sin?
Talullah, stupid people use stupid reasons. is religion a fad? do you think in the absence of religion that these people would still not have been manipulated to expand? cant you see that today?
so then why would YOU still go back and refuse to admit that people who kill in disobedience to expand territory are disobeying the new testament.
NOW THAT IS NOT CHRISTIAN. DISOBEYING THE NEW TESTAMENT IS NOT CHRISTIAN.
And Talullah, if there is a devil, his aim is to defile through deception.
I give up, Austin. You lack the integrity to admit to the very real crimes committed by christians who used their religion as an excuse. Your dishonesty is noted.
Talullah, my goal for you, is for you step back and separate mankind from who Jesus was. Even the things that man has done can not be attributed to His plan.
i.e. The conquest of land and expansion...........this is not a Christian doctrine. this is apostacy. it was apostacy at all times, and a fulfillment of Satanic one world government.
How very presumptuous for you to have a "goal for me".
Jesus (if he indeed actually existed) was a radical rabbi and a figurehead for one of the many messianic cults popular in Rome at the time. Some very interesting teaching was attributed to him. He (allegedly) lived and died, and a very corrupt religion was created in his name. There is not a single shred of evidence that any of the supernatural events attributed to Jesus actually occurred, and there is not a single shred of evidence to show that any god exists. You can't separate Jesus from mankind, because Jesus (if indeed he actually existed at all) was a man. Nothing more.
Perhaps you should get your head out of the clouds and learn history as it was, not how you want it to have been. It would make you a more honest person. Then again, I don't know if your delusions allow you to be honest.
you love the knowledge that makes you more powerful, but you still reject the relationship that God wants from you?
that's the garden and the forbidden tree. walking away from His trust for trust in your self.
I AM GUILTY. I DO THAT EVERY DAY. Jesus loves you Talullah. He is right there with you crying for your attention.
What exactly do you gain from trolling bullsh!t here every day ?
extra minutes on the trampoline in heaven...
There is one thing I have done in my life that I feel guilty about - I helped destroy a piece of property at a college party. I could not make amends because I didn't know who owned the property and could never find the location again. I didn't even know who held the party because we were invited by a friend of a friend. (It was college.)
It's been over 30 years and I still feel terrible about it. All the prayer in the world can't make me feel any less guilty, because I did not wrong your god. I wronged a real, live human being. And frankly, I don't deserve to feel better about it until I do make amends to the person I wronged.
That event taught me a lesson, and since that night I have tried to be the most honest and responsible human being that I can be. I don't need your god. I can act like an adult all on my own.
"I don't need your God"
Excellent point Tallulah. I dare say, no one can come to God, until or unless they need him. I'll go even further, I believe God even brings people to the point in their lives where they have the need.
I'll go you one further, Robert. Religion preys on people who are struggling and gives them false security based on old mythology. I don't need god because I don't need that sort of dishonesty in my life. I don't need god because I don't need pointless distraction from the real things that need to be done.
Most certainly, there are people who steal in the name of religion. A relationship however with Jesus is real and more important than anything. It is this relationship and his love, grace, and mercy that enables us to do everything we are able to do. If you ever come to the place where you no longer feel like you've "got this," give God a try.
As you have been told many, many times, Robert, most atheists were once believers. I was. Then I honestly thought about what I believed and why and realized that what I had was a cultural habit and an emotional attachment. Faith is a distraction. It's a pretend solution to real problems. You may pray to Jesus or to your god, but in the end humans are still the ones to do all the heavy lifting.
You have already admitted that you do not wish to think about things that might make you question your belief. I hardly think that you are in a position to give advice about what others should believe.
You are doing it all wrong Tallulah.
Take up any modern cult, say xtianity, and then you can "pray" away any transgression you want.
Property destruction, infidelity, child ra_pe, or beheading people of other cults.
It is almost limitless what horribly amoral crimes you can commit being a believer and still sleep soundly at night!
Too long, too boring....
To fishy too.
1 Corinthians 14
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
So why do chicks bother going to church?
They go in submission to God and, when young, their parents, when older, their husbands.
To hear the word of God.
The Abrahamic religions offer very little to women. They are exactly the sort of religions that one would expect to stem from the patriarchal myths of a bronze age Middle Eastern tribe. Even if I were to believe that gods exist, I could never believe in the judeo-christian god, who demands that I be treated as a second class citizen.
There's no need to worry about gods. The mentality that creates and promotes them is real and active in the world, though. The religions are very real. The believers say we fight against God. There isn't one. We have to deal with the stuff people dream up around their imaginary gods.
I don't worry at all about gods. I wish that I could simply say that I don't care what others believe, but the radicals and fundamentalists ruin freedom of religion for everyone.
Have you ever heard of a territorial male, or and alpha male? That is an dominant type.
Patriarch is really not an important word.
Saying that God does not have much to offer a woman.......is something that has to do with you, and not God.
If you think a Christ believing man has nothing to offer a woman, I would have to figure out what to say to that.
"Have you ever heard of a territorial male, or and alpha male? That is an dominant type"
Have you ever heard of Hillary Clinton? She's absolutely an alpha female, but "christ-believing" men like yourself call her other, less complimentary names. "Christ-believing" men have a habit of calling strong women all sorts of offensive names. Do you know why? Our society is historically a patriarchy, and some men are terrified, intimidated and angry when women don't fall into the submissive role mandated by the Abrahamic religions. We're getting away from that now, but it's been a long, uphill struggle. There are plenty of alpha, territorial females, no matter how much you wish or pretend otherwise.
I believe that there are certainly men of every faith who have a modern view of women, but there are just as many who would call a woman a prostitute for using birth control, or worse, kill a woman for marrying someone they don't choose or approve. Submissive is not equal. Women are not property.
I understand that you don't get this, Austin. You prove it when you say things like "Patriarch is really not an important word. The fact you find it so easy to dismiss shows exactly how little you understand or care. It's never been your fight. But it has been my fight and the fight of many, many other women.
tallaluh
It is really very simple, Eve talked Adam into eating from the wrong tree. So because you were born female, you get to suffer. Is it not obvious that it is your fault and you deserve it?
Just like original sin, only on a 28 day cycle.
Now shut up and make babies.
And Do Not complain about the pain. Remember, because of Eve you deserve it.
Those daft Abrahamics.
yo Talullah. On one hand I can understand how you feel. Because life and culture are different.
think about Native Americans, they lived in tents. or go back to the days of Abraham and all the way through Moses and beyond that...............they were nomadic tent dwelling people . This type of a set us , at a time where every society was a war society , you Talullah would know why you needed a male to protect you and why that was normal.
There is only one proper example to really examine, and that would be the Hebraic Jewish clan, with the strongest claim to who God is.
Israel wandered in the desert and then passed through Canaan, and a bunch of foreign lands where they were attacked. I guess to raise the idea that in the patriarchal society, without locked doors , alarms hooked up to the police department, or guns, I am sure talullah that you would have been glad to have a male .
you cant look at the patriarchal society and diss marriage...........because they lived in a time of empires and wars, and they assimilated people into their society.
Do you think that people like Moses, King David, or Nehemiah, or Joseph,.............do you think they were abusive because they saw themselves as leaders of their family?
what about the fact that there were no female priests, or even in the catholic church.
is that abusive? God's role for the male was not characterized by the shocking transition of as.similation that is so un appealing to anyone.
As a Christian, I don't look at the way ISIS and Boko Haram sell females and as.similate them into their cultures and become jealous. But I can understand why things were that way when Israel was surviving as a nation. And that's the only justification you could have for that situation......................the fact that Israel was an irreplaceable vehicle.
The New Testament changed all that. ISIS and boko haram are imposters of old testament and they are inflicting themselves with the flesh and bondage to the law. And its basically a vain mockery and imitation of Israel of old.
It's funny how you mention the Native Americans, considering how many of those cultures – including the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Iroquois, Muscogee, and Seminole - had women in prominent and equal leadership roles until the christians showed up and stole tribal lands and traditions.
But anyway, Austin, your book of myths was written by a patriarchal tribe. Hardly an unbiased source. Your very religion is based on the vilification of it's mythological first woman. Oddly enough, I believe that Christ was written as someone who treated women as equals, but the church fathers certainly spared no effort to eliminate that consideration from the religion that bears Christ's name. They immediately banned women from any leadership or preaching roles in their church and even went so far as to falsely label Mary Magdeline a prostitute, when in fact she was more akin to a student or even an apostle.
As for myself, I haven't needed the protection or even the financial assistance of a male for over 30 years. I know many women who are the primary earners in their families. I've certainly been paid less for doing the same job as my male coworkers, but that just made me work harder. It's amazing how much easier it is to survive and thrive when you are allowed equal footing - something that the Abrahamic religions have done their damnedest to deny women.
talullah,
are you sure that just because S.eminoles respected woman, that they would still not fall under patriarchal? Because last I checked they were protected by the males, they would go under hunter gathering tribe, and that the males were the hunters and warriors. That to me is patriarchal. no religion required.
Je.zebel would never submit to a man. she was her own god. that was said to be wrong, and she was further into evil .and baal. a woman with a domineering spirit is going to provoke a man, to not fulfill his role as a man. its un acceptable for a father to shirk his role as a leader.
I know you probably think that is ignorant , but its true. men are wired dominant. that doesn't mean he has to be smarter , or make all the descisions. it calls him no to be idle, and lazy , and irresponsible or out of touch. I would not want to make the decision what to cook. (joke) how ever..............God is a god of love and we are created with that quality. that has never changed as far as you go back, ....................man should have loved woman and that is no abusive thing. And like you are talking about the S.eminole woman...........I am sure that Abraham and Sarah exemplified this ..........and Noah and his wife, who had shem ham and .j.apeth, who went up the straight from asia into Canada and down into the Americas.
You are a descendant of God Talullah.
you are talking about being independent in the year 2014 you want to cast a shadow on the word patriarchal referring to 2000 BC, and that just totally and completely un realistic. How are hunter gathering groups not patriarchal in their function?
there were no cops, no phones, no bathrooms, no doors, no walls, and women were absolutely vulnerable. Especially in cultures without a set of laws..............many cultures adopted godly values as we are all of God. those morals are wired into our emotions..............unless we become increasingly corrupted and lost.
And I would say the caananites were defiled like ISIS, and so was Esau, but I would never say that about the Native Americans.
I personally respect the way of life of Native Americans and their connection to the land. Much more pure and valuable than men connected to their guns and the theft of land.
what happened, the way it happened, and what has become is a travesty, having zero percent to do with Christianity.
Hey Austism, phuck god and your made up misoginist myth.
Austin? All your words do not make it okay to subjugate women. All your attempts at rewriting history do not make it okay to subjugate women. Some women may enjoy being considered weak, but it is far from universal. This is why women have fought for equality for generations.
Your god offers me NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING.
By the way - it appears that during the bronze age what women needed protection from most was men. Women were treated as property and not allowed access to the weapons and training that would have made them equal. Women are VERY capable once allowed equal footing. Your bible codifies misogyny, and your religion enforced it for thousands of years. You are just making excuses.
mi·sog·y·ny
/məˈsäjənē/
noun
noun: misogyny
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
Talullah,
you are trying to say that God created Adam as an example of this definition "misogyny"
and you think a Christian agress with you we dislike women, we have contempt for women?
I have contempt for contempt.
Adam and Eve never existed.
What I have said very clearly is that the bible is an extremely misogynistic book of myths they are not property, not matter what the bible says.. And judging by your defense of it, I'd say you are a misogynist as well.
Flavorful Favorites, you're a nice addition to the BB. Keep them coming! So how do christians not see through the obvious man made crap in the bible? Ya I know, indoctrination, cognitive dissonance, and just fear of hell. What a great formula Paul came up with...heaven for everyone you just got to believe and if you don't...torture for the rest of eternity. Yup, they'll buy that. Anyways, keep up the "favorites"!
the Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that supernaturally bears the truth of God's word on a persons heart.
does any other religion claim to have a supernatural, personal, mediator of truth, that bears the truth supernaturally?
Do you want to meet Him? Do you need healing?
What grade did you complete? You ask questions like that of the typical 5 year old.
religionfacts.org will answer your questions...now be a good little boy and do your research before coming back and continuing to make yourself look like an uneducated fool
There are so many gods invented by man and not one (not even yours) can be shown to exist. It takes a truly weak heart to believe you need the imaginary to survive or in your case, the parole board does tend to favor the wretched who say they now believe.
Autism is one creepy xtian, and that takes some doing.
So glad he and his ilk are dying off.
At least here in the Western world, as they seem to be getting creepier and more violent over in the ME.
Hopefully humankind can survive and finally move past the fairy tales without the religious destroying us all first.
"the Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that supernaturally bears the truth of God's word on a persons heart."
Austin – what do you mean when you say a "person's heart". Not to be too pedantic, but I don't believe my heart is anything other than a pump.
It sounds nice, but language like this is contrary to proper communication.
ask your husband, as apposed to go up and ask another man at church. Work if out with your own husband so can no that you are an intimate unit.
Praise God for a loving woman who is loyal.
the woman going around at church and asking other males or women for spiritual answers is a way for her to shame her own husband .......which is emotionally abusive.
again, a man is a father and in the days of old a father is always at hard labor and not an insurance company. that kind of rigor takes a tole, and upon coming home he doesn't need his wife saying
"you are wrong bout his I asked Daryl about it and he said such and such is the correct answer."
you go work your ass off and come home and your wife is undermining you.
That sounds fantastic.
We get it. You think women are lesser than men. I pity any woman who has to deal with you in real life.
Talullah.............can you find a place where I said that?
the reason that statement you made has error in it has to do with the value of a soul / spirit, to God.
He says, the first will be last and the last will be first.
I am willing to submit to my role, and I don't see it as some advantage at all. Its a responsibility that's all ive heard. The last time I tried a relationship, she was divorced and 43 and she was the senior vice president for HR for a string of nursing homes on the east coast. She wasn't inferior to me. She just had issues with hating marriage.
You said this: "ask your husband, as apposed to go up and ask another man at church. Work if out with your own husband so can no that you are an intimate unit. ..... the woman going around at church and asking other males or women for spiritual answers is a way for her to shame her own husband .......which is emotionally abusive."
You just called a woman who asks anyone but her husband for answers "emotionally abusive." That pretty much says that you think that women are property of their husbands. And the fact that you think that women must defer to their husband is your flat out admission that you think that women are lesser than men.
Exodus 31:15 – For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death.
Who is responsible for killing all these people working today?
If your going by this, you have to kill everyone who worked yesterday.
Let's just hit the reset button. Kill everyone and let God have a fresh start. Really, who would know? It's not as if other gods are watching, eh?
I'm hoping the last reset did the trick.
Austin,
You are actually hoping that a religious war kills 1/3 of the people on this earth.
Do you not see how sick and twisted and non-christian that is?
that's an incorrect comment.
I don't want anything. but the anti Christ will kill 1/3 of the earth population, in a matter of 3.5 years.
How will he do this killing? Perhaps he will send a bunch of 9-year-olds out with machine guns.
Ever heard of the illuminati? They are a satan occult within the freemansons. The depopulation agenda is true. They have infiltrated everything in our society from movies, music, fashion, political, and eduction to brainwash people to follow their new world order. Look it up about all their subliminal messaging. for instance whenever you see models covering one eye that represents the all seeing eye. look on the back of a dollor bill the pyramid with the eye was put their because the illuminati has control of this country. Its the eye of lucifer.
You read a lot of Dan Brown do you?
no
blessed ."Lucifer " is not Satan...you have adopted that name in your cult but the real meaning has nothing to do with the "Occult" and even Satan is not real...
Relax, do not worry..and enjoy the life that evolution has given you...
Did you know that they are actually performing live satanic rituals right on stage at music concerts and people dont even know it? They think it is just entertainment but it has meaning behind it. This country because of its love of sin, is giving over to complete darkness and allowing for the evil to be manifest right in their face but have no clue because they are sound asleep.
Can you give an example?
Blessed Are they singing their songs backwards again...happened in the sixties I think. did you know that evil spelled backwards is "live"... what do you make of that?
I went to a Black Sabbath concert a year ago...no satanic ceremonies though....
Would have made your head explode. he he
This is about beyonce's super bowl performance. youtube.com/watch?v=clwcmltOjkY
So basically, all you have is nutty people making claims. Well, heck. That's religion for you.
Katy perry grammy 2014, Nicki Minaj Grammy 2012 are other examples. If you cannot see the satanic symbolism behind these performances you are blind. The link to beyonce performance is not just claims, it shows the performance and provides info on the meaning behind what they are doing.
ya and beyonces husband..............J Z he gets into all that big time.
beyonce has an alter ego........sasha
youtube jay z satanism
blessed137...............that video about the superbowl was intense.
Blessed, before I got saved my favorite band was marilyn manson. Can you believe that!! My head is just fine. Black Sabbath cant break me.
Saying there is "symbolism" and saying there is a "ritual" going on is not the same thing....nutty Christians like yourself see symbolism everywhere.
Sounds like you were being overly dramatic and now you have to backpeddle on your claim...a bit dishonest don't you think?
No I meant what I said they are performing rituals. They hide their agenda behind entertainment but the wise understand the symbolic meaning of what they are doing.
I saw no rituals...just a lot symbolism. And christians like yourself have often claimed any symbols that are not Christian are Satanic...or the symbols are incorporated into the christian cult.
Marilyn Manson is just as tame as all the other shock rockers...they bet on getting people like you worked up and it pays off in spades.
Oh too funny! You and Austin could share a padded room...totally delusional.
Blessed.137 how come you folks nailing a guy to a piece of wood is called "dying for sins"'... in essence a sacrifice to the gods as most ancient human cults did.....yet folks just dancing and singing today are called satanic rituals.
Blessed 137.. can you elaborate as to the satanic rituals you actually see on stage.
youtube.com/watch?v=B-rctMEjP9E This is elaboration about the symbolic meaning of these rituals. Keep in mind they are hidden behind entertainment. All you may see is signing and dancing. But there is a root of evil much deeper than what you perceive. Jesus Christ was sacrificed so you may have eternal life. He was taking your place of death and punishment for your sins. Its what you deserved. No other sacrifice was done for this reason. The righteous for the unrighteous. That is God's love for you. I pray that God opens your eyes. Much Love to you in Christ.
Entertainers use shock and scandal to gain an audience. Looks like you bought right into it.
AMEN!
Hmm. Is the amount of time till He snuffs out everyone the divine average of Pi? And will the number of people He kills relative to the total people at that time be the Anti-Pi?
Wow Austin, that's some great hallucinogenic's you're tripping on if you truly believe that. Put the crack pipe of religion down, locate the nearest asylum and seek some help before you do something stupid again and harm someone. You have no place in society when you think some delusional dangerous thoughts as the one you constantly post. Oh and for the safety of children stay at least 50 feet away at all times.
I never knew a single thing about the saint Louis arch, until I had a dream that I was inside of it. and I was in a museum and there were big cases. I was with my cousin N.....Madison. and she said to me..........and pointed into a glass case with a bust of a head "look its Thomas Jefferson. "
I woke up , and thought about this over the next few days. googled it ..............never knowing what the arch was about.
and the arch is a memorial to Thomas Jefferson.
This was a black magic or occult dream that came to me supernaturally.
I heard there is a squished cat at the base of it....
who knew?
That's just great, except it is a symbol to westward expansion.
no its not a west symbol in full.
the saint Louis arch is a star dial. it illuminates a star at the apex of its culmination when other stars cross its path.
google, masonic astrology of the gate way arch. they are looking for something called a grand full pinwheel or something, when the Egyptian stars culminate over the pyramid of giza, at the same time one culminates over the arch.
this is why the masons are "occult". not to mention their satanic initiation. but the 33 degree masons have a picture of an open casket on one of George Washington's towels .
its a checkerboard with a casket and a ladder going up
it may be that the casket of Gilgamesh that they found, that they took his dna and genetically modified a human with this old dna, ............going back to nimrod and the defiling of the flesh that the fallen angels were mingling in. causing the flood. they exhumed this guys grave and might do something with his DNA a DNA that can change a modern human.
Wow. just Wow.
Where do you get your reading material?
I know it didn't come from the internet, because everything in the internet is accurate.
I believe this is where Austin gets his information:
http://weeklyworldnews.com/
Austin, same thing happened to me, but it was a dream about the space shuttle. What do you think it means?
Autism, you are a complete and utter fool.
The Arch's design is that of what form a chain takes when held at both ends and let to fall via gravity.
Has absolutely zero to do with religion or your red horned boogie man you are so scared of.
The architect who designed it also designed the original terminal at Dullas airport which at the time was the largest concrete roof of any building. It is a very beautiful structure.
That is what science combined with art gives us, beautiful and functional structures.
All religion gives us is supersti tion, violence and fear.
hey man , did google..........masonic astrology of the gateway arch?
There exists in Freemasonry the concept of the Royal Arch of Heaven, which is based upon astrological principles. In 1949, George Steinmetz wrote of the Royal Arch:
"Without some knowledge of astrology it is impossible for any one to fully understand the symbology of the Royal Arch degree, or for that matter Freemasonry, for it is replete with astrological references."2
Figure 6 Mars rises over Giza at the same moment Luna and Regulus co-set over St. Louis.
In pure astronomical terms, the Royal Arch is simply the Sun's ingress into Cancer, where it attains the highest declination of its journey through the zodiac. Masonic symbolism throughout the craft pays reverence to the Sun as the giver of life, and light, to mankind and to the world; its proper exalted spot is therefore where it is most elevated, and this is June 21st in our calendar.
Furthermore, this exalted point of 0° Cancer symbolically represents the gateway of life from the etheric realms into the material world. This concept is nothing unique to Masonry, as it was significant in ancient cosmologies, and certainly the ancient Egyptians.
This point has an opposite, that of 0° C.apr.icorn. This point would reflect the opposite sentiment of 0° Cancer, or the gateway from the physical realm to the etheric - the process of death, and is therefore suitable for memorials. This point is where the sun is lowest in declination, as seen in Figure X. Simply, the keystone is transited by the Sun on June 20/21st, the first day of summer, and the keystone's an.t.ithetical counterpart is transited by the Sun on December 21/22nd, the first day of winter. In keeping with this theme, the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial was dedicated in 1935 on December 21st!
the first thans giving 11 22 ............11+22=33 masonic symbology.
Nicknak...........you are wrong. the Louisiana purchase was dated upon an occult date dealing with the masons Egyptian religion. There is plenty of proof for that. They still to this day use the Egyptian dating, of speeches with stars, and subliminal encryption into speeches.
That is an occult religious government.
No dude, you are lost.
Not even the other believers on this board back u up as you are so far off the reservation.
◄ Revelation 9:11 ►
They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer). Gilgamesh/ OSIRIS
the earth is going into labor pains. and we are about to experience catastrophic disturbances.
I would say there is going to be nuclear war as well. How long would that take? not long at all.
someone is going to get as.sas.sinated, and recover, and we should see Moses and Elijah. And an evil resurrection.
1/3 of the world will perish.
we should all work out our salvation and repent and turn to God.
Well, austin, things of that sort have been said for a couple of millennia. It's best to just go on living in such a way that you don't feel scared and pressured to repent.
the masons worship a prophecy , that there will be a resurrection............and it has to do with the legen of hiram abiff, the grand architect.
this ISIS in Iraq, is using masonic order encryption. they base this stuff off of occult astrology, and what this means, is that their stars are showing their signs, and we don't need to know the occult astrology, but they are declaring it to the world.
the same as the bushs mention of "fire in the sky", and the dates that they gave those speeches, they were occult star dates.
ISIS, being the name of an Egyptian God..........is all out Masonic encryption........and its the name associated with Osiris and the "god" who comes back.
this is no joke.
Several of my ancestors, a few in each generation ending with my da's father, were Masons. Some were religious and they seemed to have fairly conventional ideas. I even have some of their books. Nothing on this, though.
I have a better idea, let's all turn away from the gods.
That way the holy wars will never happen.
How on earth does person who is assassinated recover?
lol – only austin knows, Akira. Well, and Nutsadamus.
hey we should all post pictures of ourselves .
Austin..bet you are totally wrong..but good luck with your depression.
ISIS is the goddess of Egyptian religion.
Hold on a second.. this is the masons then. this is the masonic order from chaos
OMG.
that is a Satanic proclamation.
Appolyon, Osiris
Except, of course, that Isis is the goddess and the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria has nothing to do with it.
hey I am watching this...........is that the ISIS flag in the upper left corner of the youtube screen?
I sure think it is and why would that be on there?
73 great grand children?
the oldest woman in the world is a Mexican. \
are you telling me that you honestly think that a Hebrew isn't smart enough to keep the family tree all the way back to Adam?
I can promise you that it could be done. they are not degenerates. going back THEY GET WISER.
I probably could have worded that more politically correctly and my apologies are due. My best wishes to the human race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckfrn5-86xU
– Atheism and evolution are nonsense as this video proves
It is true that atheism and evolution alone could not have given rise to that video.
Scotty..why were dinosaurs and the other prehistoric critters as large as they where? why are we smaller....oh and while you are at it.. do you have a video we can see that shows what to wear in heaven. Are you naked or do you wear what you have on when you die.. and have to wear for an eternity...will it smell or do they have washers or stores to buy stuff .If they do who would need to work. and where would those clothes come from. Oh and another thing what age will you be? do we all slip back to teenage or older, younger...do babies stay babies or do they grow. Any youtube videos would be helpful.. may be some actual footage from heaven will help.
Still here, scotty? I thought you changed your name and gender.
awanderingscot,
The rhetoric and sophistry of Ray "Bananaman" Comfort not withstanding, there is plenty of evidence of evolution, not "Darwinian" per se, but the modern theory of evolution.
Where is the observable evidence confirming evolution Ken? Still stumped?
Yeah Ken! Where's your crocoduck, Ken?
WHERE"S YOUR CROCODUCK!
Plus, bananas, Ken – BANANAS PROVE GOD.
Check and mate.
wandering,
Here's a good place to start (again) – http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
Feel free to post your evidence for creationism.
awanderingscot,
There is plenty of evidence for evolution...
biochemistry such as Cytochrome C
fossils such as Tiktaalik, Ambulocetus, Archeopteryx, etc.
biogeography such as marsupials, polar bears, etc.
genetics such as human chromosome 2, ERVs, etc.
experiments such as Lenskis e.coli experiment
etc.