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 The late Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is the subject of a "sacrilegious" new prayer.
September 3rd, 2014
11:43 AM ET
In Venezuela, a 'sacrilegious' Lord's PrayerBy Rafael Romo, CNN (CNN) - A member of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela and follower of Hugo Chavez is raising eyebrows for changing the words of the Lord's Prayer to honor the late president. Speaking during an event at the Third Congress of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela in Caracas on Monday, María Estrella Uribe read the changed prayer in front of hundreds of delegates and current President Nicolás Maduro. "Our Chávez who art in heaven, on Earth, in the sea and in us delegates," she read, "hallowed be thy name. Thy legacy come so that we can take it to people here and elsewhere." The delegate from the border state of Táchira kept on reading. "Give us today your light to guide us every day. Lead us not into the temptation of capitalism, but deliver us from oligarchy." Delegates cheered Uribe loudly, especially when she shouted "Viva Chávez!" at the end of her speech. Maduro raised no objections. But Uribe's actions have offended many Christians in the South American country, Catholics and Protestants alike. They say the words of a prayer found in the books of Matthew and Luke in the Bible should not be changed for political propaganda or any other purposes. Carlos Caripa, head pastor at the Saint Jude Thaddeus Chiquinquirá Church in Caracas, said the changed prayer was, at best, disrespectful. "It's an expression of people who had a deep affection for Hugo Chavez, who was our president, and that's how they're showing that love and affection. But that's not a feeling shared by all of our people. They're changing a prayer that is highly important to us, a prayer that begins by saying that our father is God," Caripa said. The Rev. José Piñero, vice president of the Evangelical Council of Venezuela, went further. "From a Christian perspective, we consider changing the words of the Lord's Prayer sacrilegious, an act of idolatry and desecration and a trivialization of the sacred," Piñero said. He said the evangelical leadership is deeply concerned about acts by loyal followers of Hugo Chavez who, Piñero said, are worshiping the late leader as if he were a divinity. "There was a movement that fortunately failed that wanted to establish a church and name Hugo Chavez a bishop," Piñero said. The cult of Hugo Chavez is not necessarily new. It started well before he died of cancer in March 2013. There is an altar to worship Chávez at Cuartel de la Montaña, the military barracks in Caracas where Chavez is buried. During the campaign that led to his election as Chavez's successor in April 2013, Maduro famously said Chávez appeared to him in the form of a little bird. An animated video published weeks after the president's death showed Chávez entering heaven and joining other deceased Latin American leaders, such as his revered independence hero, Simón Bolivar. The changed prayer also offended some Chavistas, such as Carmenchi Chavez (no relation), an attorney who said people should give Caesar what is Caesar's and God what's God's, paraphrasing Jesus' words in Matthew 22:21. "I'm Chavista," Chávez said, "but I believe that you can't mix politics with other things. You can have your own political persuasion, but you need to respect the beliefs people have been raised with." Osmary Hernandez contributed to this report.
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PERFECT ! The perfect blend of an apostate idolatrous religion and a materialistic atheistic worldview.
It's good to see you've found what you were looking for. Enjoy.
The End is nigh!!!
Keep an eye out for any 7 headed, 10 horned, bear pawed, amphibious Beasts.
The only thing sadder than a religious person trying to argue their position with an atheist is a religious person trying to argue their position with another religious person with a slightly different form of delusion.
I know, right? It's the same God.
I don't get it.
A "true Christian".... I love when they pull that one out..
considering you are a polytheist, you shouldn't be poking your head out of your shell yelling things at others.
Morning all, heading to my fav cafė for some Joe and a bit of reading.
It is just another beautiful day, without god(s).
A nice god could come along any minute now. One that doesn't really want anything from you and will offer you only help and companionship. Or you could imagine one up like many people do, but those tend to be pretty scary.
They roast their own beans too, place smells heavenly!
Hey believers, will there be coffee in heaven?
If not, count me out.
Later
In Hell, there is only Folgers decaf and no sugar – only Sweet 'N Low.
Powdered creamer. Definitely of Satan.
Powdered creamer – ugh.
It's half & half or nothing.
Coffee in the little paper cups from a dirty old vending machine...
and the cups are those with a poker hand printed on the side, and you always get a pair of deuces...
While you guys are at it, you might as well say that the cups also have holes in them.
The toxic coffee makes the holes in the cups..
If all my xtian coworkers are a representative cross section of the believers world, then no,there won't be any coffee in heaven.
None of them drink coffee.
But they sure do drink themselves some diet coke!
Like 5 plus cans a day.
The idea that the state should be able to regulate religion is unpopular on all sides, or it seems so. But if I were to contrive any other way of persuading people, especially scared, gullible, poor, or feeble-minded people, to hand over their money for no tangible return the state would take an interest and no one would disagree that it should. Can we regulate religion without impeding in any way what people choose to believe?
Don't we do that now, with fraud charges?
But then these folks have to believe they've been defrauded...quite the conundrum.
May Dionysus, my favourite god, bless you tonight...perhaps a nice cab from Napa.
take the name huGO(D) ... it has almost the word GOD in it.
take the name CH AVEz ... it has a "CH" which is the start of CHRIST and an AVE which means farewell or godspeed.
This is proof of His divinity. The prophesy of his name has foretold it. And you can read about his divinity in a book! As we all know, that is definite proof!
Try arguing with those FACTS all you nay sayers!!!
Love it. I've just read the birth of a conspiracy theory! Well done.
Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson is at it again. On Hannity's show, he said that ISIS members should either convert to Christianity or be killed.
The cognitive dissonance is staggering. Buffoon.
and an America being fed a steady diet of FOX News and Duck Dynasty is definitely an America on the road to nowhere. No wonder we are falling behind the world in science and technology.
It's Honey Boo Boo's fault.
*Shudders*
Ignorance gets big ratings.
Ausphor, no...
Phil couldn't give a Scripturally based passage about the "convert or die" in the NT. Perhaps Theo could, but it would have to be a real stretch, because it doesn't exist in the NT.
A distasteful use of the lords prayer to make a point but not a sin i think. Chavez was not place above God or the Lord but as a follower who oppose greed and promotes social equality.
Unlike the times of the Tudors where King Henry the VIII proclaims himself as the ultimate scholar of the bible. A King served by all with in the realm above God, since he is the ultimate adjudicator.
Henry did all that so he wouldn't have to answer to the Pope for his desire for a divorce from a blameless Katharine of Aragon so he could marry Anne Bolelyn. He didn't care one single jot about the Reformation until he couldn't get what he wanted from the Pope: an annulment.
That, and his constant depleting of his treasury and the opportunity to seize the RC monasteries and their treasures to refill his coffers under the guise of Reformation.
Henry wasn't a good representation of a Christian. He was a bully
Yes, Henrys motives may have been greed, power or personal desires and not about religion. We hope it is not the case here.
It is also important to note the separation of powers between the state and religion. As confident as we are in our beliefs, we cant be entirely sure of its morality.
The separation of church and state must always be maintained.
Should the state have the power to regulate religion? Often religions are scams. We regulate against fleecing people except when its done through religion.
@Tom, if this is meant for me, no. The state that regulates a religion can impose it, also. No.
We cannot regulate what people choose to believe. That which is forbidden often gains power. Better that we separate law and religion entirely.
Yes. A belief is something kept personal and let our actions define who we are.
Labella,
I agree. Separation of state and religion should be maintained.
Tom,
Cant regulate beliefs but acts we do which may have something to do with determination of harmful intent, enforcement, compliance.
I understand some beliefs or religion are scams but all we could do is educate all to prevent folks being fooled. Let all voices be heard. We then decide not based on the narrative, what is popular or self-serving but what is right. What is moral. A human determination.
Henry could have done nothing if the seeds of the break from Rome had not been long before sewn in English history. The Lollards and the Const'itutions of Clarendon are examples of this complex process of tossing off the authority of Rome. If it had not been Henry's divorce, it would have been something else. The time was ripe for change.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/middle_ages/lollards_01.shtml
Real,
Good point. At the time, Rome or RCC have the authority to legitimize a Kingdom. A powerful inst:tution and as we know the tendency is to abuse power even if the belief is rigtheous it gets manipulated for personal gain. Consequently, there are dissention from other Kingdoms and breaks away from the inst:tution or any ent:ty.
As i said in the past, teachnings of God are moral, we humans are to blame for our weakness.
Actually it was the Pope who recognized Henry VIII as a bible scholar – specifically a "Fidei defensor" or "Defender of the Faith", conferred in 1521 in recognition of Henry's book Assertio Septem Sacramentorum (Defence of the Seven Sacraments), which defended the sacramental nature of marriage and the supremacy of the Pope. (wikipedia)
The ti.tle was revoked when Henry was excommunicated after breaking with Rome in 1530.
Nevertheless the letters F.D. still appear on British coins today, the ti.tle being conferred by act of Parliament.
Gop,
True. However, disagreements between the Pope or a King or Queen is unavoidable. Who decides? War, who has the bigger you know what.
I like the Chavista at the end of the article, getting down to the real core of this "controversy", which is Jesus' instruction for separation of politics from religion. Too many believers in our country erroneously think they are honoring God by dragging Him into the vile realm of man's politics.
Similarly, too many believers mindlessly recite the Lord's Prayer as if it is some magical sacred incantation and pleasing to God to hear over and over. It is not. Jesus' instruction with this prayer is actually a framework for our individual prayers, which should always first adore and exalt God, for His power, purity, and promises, then confess our weaknesses, dependence, and submission to Him, and to state our desire to live like Christ with full trust in Him, aligning our wishes with the Father's will. Moreover, the closer we grow to God in sanctification, the closer we come to being in a constant state of prayer.
"being in a constant ste of prayer" – isn't that a sort of catatonia? Maybe some advanced anti-seizure meds will help.
Smellslikedirt,
First you have to prove the existence of your imaginary friend..
Until then, it is just your delusion and meaningless to us non believers.
My above comments are directed at fellow humble believers who hunger for righteousness, not at lost deniers. But anyway thank you for reading, and for demonstrating the hopeless darkness of an unregenerate mind.
I was insensitive. I apologize. Let's start over. Why do you suggest you were made from dirt? You weren't. If you want to see what we are all made from look for a good image of the Orion Nebula. It resembles the environment in which the sun and the stuff of our solar system originated.
Tom, Tom, the Other One, in the final analysis, it's all the same "stuff". The point is we are creatures limited in this physical universe, our daily existence depends on God's maintenance of it, and apart from God we have no hope for life beyond it.
Tom,
MadeFromDirt is correct. It's all the same stuff.
God formed man from the dust of the ground. Where did this dust come from? Yes, we know that dust comes from the earth, but where did the dust in the earth come from?
Pro 8:1-31 Wisdom narrates the creation process which began with the dust of the world (cosmos)
[...While as yet He had not made the earth nor the fields nor the highest part of the dust of the world (cosmos)]
Why do you figure the creator of the universe wishes to be adored and exalted? I guess he/she/it has commonality with Lady GaGa.
"My above comments are directed at fellow humble believers who hunger for righteousness, not at lost deniers"
If you only want comments from people who share your views, then perhaps FAUX news would be better for you, otherwise show some respect and try to understand that this is a public blog and YOU DON'T have the RIGHT to say who comments.
Faux news dismantled their comments long ago due to the nasty racist and violent posts from their readers.
RedState is where the "loving" repub/xtian nasty racist violent Faux news watchers go now to rant.
Dirtman, I guess we both have enormous egos. You figure the creator of the universe is interested in the minutia of your life, and I am unwilling to grovel in the ways you describe. We both have issues,
Harlow13, when I consider the magnitude of Christ's work and payment in place of His people, it leaves no doubt that God loves every tiny and drab detail of us.
Yes, that's another problem for me. Orchestrating a crucifixion just doesn't sound like the work of a wizened being. It brings to mind the actions of ISIS. I can't see any wisdom in it.
Said god does not exist so your point is moot.
Harlow13, God gave man a mind to use, and He delights when His people find His deeper truths hidden under a disguise. You raise a heavy concern that takes a heavy answer, which can be found throughout Scripture. Yes the crucifixion of Jesus was ugly, but the brutality was absolutely necessary, in too many ways to cover here, but I can touch on a few.
God is a just God, or else He would not be God. Perfect righteousness is neither perfect nor righteous if there is any bit of imperfection in its midst, and so the righteous punishment for choosing to turn away from God's perfection is death, as God promised Adam. But man was created in God's image, and part of that means our souls are eternal, so although we all die physically, instead of spiritual extinguishment as well, the price of rebellion is eternal banishment from God. Such spiritual banishment is equivalent to death because outside of God the soul has no capacity to affect its environment.
God chose the Hebrews from which to progressively reveal and enact His plan of redemption for His people away from that required punishment. Part of Jewish ceremonial law was blood sacrifice of animals, to atone for their sins against God who gave them life, to ingrain in the culture that sin against God generated the heaviest of debts, and to point to the future spilling of blood of the Messiah at the hands of man for the representative purpose of serving as our proxy. Christ left the presence of the Father and Spirit with whom for all eternity past He had been united, lived as a man keeping all of God's commandments, and yet then He received the full force and wrath of God as physically delivered by lowly men and then spiritually enforced by separation from the Trinity. The perfection of His righteous life, the weight of the debt for all the spiritual violations against the Creator committed by the people He forever loves, and the punishment required, absolutely necessitated the most horrible manner of death to match the gravity of the situation and accomplish the redemption.
Some other reasons for crucifixion is that it was the usual method of execution by the government in that time and place, death came not at the hands of any certain man, and it was a public execution for all to see and know that the great teacher and healer Jesus of Nazareth was dead (at the same time as the earthquake and terrifying darkness descended on them).
The good news is His crucifixion is long over. His suffering and banishment in our place was accepted by God, as His infinite nature of love exceeds the eternal punishment of a finite number of human beings, and He has been justly placed in His position as Lord of all. He lives and His pleading for us is the only way any man can stand before God and escape the consequences of not continually loving Him with all our strength, mind, heart, and soul. Indeed, Christ has restored His people into God's family, so that each one who trusts wholly in Him is free from sin and death, free to love without hindrance, and free to fulfill the infinite potential for which God created us, growing and serving in ever deeper admiration.
Were humanity in a constant state of prayer, we'd still live in hovels and have very short life spans. Thank goodness that some individuals pulled their heads out of their bible and actually did something of value.
Tallulah131, that's a very limited view of what prayer can be.
But it is true that in this fallen world and body of flesh, God's adopted people do not experience communication with Him in fullness, until we are released into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Communicating with god? Give us a break!!
From my book of essential theology and history of religion:
Free Will and Future are inherent to all the thinking beings in the Universe. This being the case, it is not possible to alter life with prayers. Statistically, your request might come true but it is simply the result of the variability/randomness of Nature..
So put down your rosaries and prayer beads and stop worshiping/revering cows or bowing to Mecca five times a day. Instead work hard at your job, take care of aging parents, volunteer at a soup kitchen, donate to charities and the poor and continue to follow any ethical rules of living as gracious and good human beings
Raman to that Reality.
Unfortunately, Dirtbag and people like him only care about getting everyone else to go along with the fairy tale to validate their continued belief.
I give them credit for imagination... although it's probably more like "my pastor told me what to think..."
MadeFromDirt,
your 2nd paragraph was as if you were reading my mind as this was exactly what I had intended to post if I found the time. The Lord's prayer is indeed a framework for us, and not meant to be recited time and time again.
I'm also happy for your clarification below regarding the target of your posts because it has often proven difficult to carry on any discussion with a fellow believer without having insults and mockery blasted at you from the other side [guys, it's okay to disagree without being disagreeable].
2 days ago I believe, Russ made this fantastic point that has been on my mind since, the most powerful part of that comment for me was: "as one theologian said: "the cross is proof that – given the chance, humanity would kill God."
It's funny how intellectually you can know a thing, but until it drops into your heart, you do not experience that earth-shattering effect so to speak.
"Jesus belongs to the unsaved man, He died for him... The unsaved man has the ability to confess Jesus Lord over his life with his lips. He has the ability to make the decision, to take Christ as his Savior. God's hands are tied until he does make that confession. Ro 10:9-10
Blessings & Favor
New-man, yes there are too many swine here, making this not the best place for brothers and sisters to exchange thoughts and lessons and to encourage one another. That's one thing for which a local church is best.
Swine? Do you think that makes you look like a decent person worthy of any form of respect? It is sad that you think so low of your fellow human who don't share your belief.
This is a public blog and no-one has forced you to comment here. It is not a blog specifically meant for Christians, so if you don't like what others say about your silly belief system, why come here at all? Your beliefs deserve to be scrutinized when they can be proven to be so absurd and harmful to society.
Grow up and try to act like an adult, instead of a hurt child.
Now if hell did exist, I'm rather certain it is people like you who call people vicious names (swine) and treat others unequally (denying rights) that would be there. You're a poor example of anything good about your cult.
Truthy,
"Swine" could very well be a reference from the New Testament regarding full discussion of those beliefs. That they should in fact not be discussed in such an open forum like this as you suggested.
6 ¶Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 7:6 KJV
kevin: So this, " yes there are too many swine here, making this not the best place for brothers and sisters to exchange thoughts", doesn't sound like an insult to you?? No good Christian I know would ever make such a statement or act so childish. It's easy to see what he was referring to and your defense of that statement from him says little about you.
So truthy,
You figure that if ones full discussion of their sacred Christian beliefs are put out here in this forum that either you or someone like you would not try to trample those beliefs? You may feel offended but sometimes the truth hurts.
Kevinite, thank you, you are correct and right on target.
Funny how TP1 is blind to his indictment of himself in his groundless accusations at my posts. But at least he knew the shoe fit him. Maybe there is still hope for him.
"The cult of Hugo Chavez is not necessarily new. It started well before he died of cancer in March 2013. There is an altar to worship Chávez at Cuartel de la Montaña, the military barracks in Caracas where Chavez is buried."
It makes one wonder if many of the Gods through our past were created in this way. I can imagine a group leader in caveman time that was exceptionally strong, charismatic, and led his group to great victories and prosperity. After he died, his followers created stories about him that eventually got embellished into him being superhuman. His war tactics were treated as scripture and they were successful for generations to come. Other successful groups would have similar stories. Then it was one God vs another.
Chavistas want to deify him now, imagine back then when everything was a mystery.
Elvis was mentioned just now.
I'm feeling Tupac.
That is exactly the impression I formed.
In the case of the 'divine' kings like Egyptian Pharaohs or Roman Emperors it starts even when they are still alive but the process is the same.
No different to saints in the Catholic tradition.
St. Hugo Chavez, the patron saint of nationalized oil companies.
Boston,
I would not be surprised if Gods where created by their acts. All acts are different. Some promotes love, hate, selfishness, sharing, power, kindness, dancing, signing, etc....God Folks follow hopefully promotes morality.
Hugo Chavez is as dead as Jesus. Pray to him until you hyperventilate if you want. There's nobody there.
Elvis is dead too and I don't feel so good myself...
Lewis Grizzard (+1 for you)
There are people in Tennessee that believe that Elvis is still alive and hiding out in the backwoods, of course these are the same people that burned their original Beatle albums in a jesus freaking protest that would now be worth a small fortune.
Tiny E is dead??
Dear Christians ... can you PROVE that Hugo Chavez didn't create the universe?
They'll have to write in a question to Reasonable Faith. Look for the answer in about a month from WLC.
Changing the words to prayers? My goodness, that is nothing new. Here is my favorite:
The Apostles' Creed 2014: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
(references used are available upon request)
These "semi-fiction writers", who wrote the mythicized tales you comment of. They were real men evidently, as you seem to say. Many of them suffered torture and were put to death for spreading, what they knew was, a lie? Wow! Now, that takes some testicles!
Real men yes, but other than Paul, very little is known about M, M, L, or J. See Father Raymond Brown's studies published in his 896 page book, An Introduction to the New Testament, for a good review. Said book is approved by the RCC.
Some added notes:
All of John's Gospel is of questionable historic value.
To wit:
From Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Jesus,
"Conventionally, scholarship has accorded priority to the first three gospels in historical work on Jesus, putting progressively less credence in works of late date. John's Gospel for example is routinely dismissed as a source......
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John#Authorship
"Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus.[3][4] "[M]ost commentators regard the work as anonymous,"[5] and date it to 90-100."
"The authorship has been disputed since at least the second century, with mainstream Christianity believing that the author is John the Apostle, son of Zebedee. Modern experts usually consider the author to be an unknown non-eyewitness, though many apologetic Christian scholars still hold to the conservative Johannine view that ascribes authorship to John the Apostle."
And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,
"Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "
See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html
By your logic Islam is true because people are willing to martyr themselves for it?
The Devil is with you now and every day. Watching you, pushing you. Making promises to you. Listen and you will learn the meaning of this life and the life beyond. Do not be afraid of Satan. Fear God, for it is God causing your grief. You are deceived.
Just so long as you are afraid. That is what truly matters.
As a wise prophet once said:
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering."
– Saint Thomas Aquinas
Or maybe it was Yoda. Always getting those two mixed up am I.
ISIS seems to have trod that path.
Hmmm, yes, mixed them up you have.
The force is strong with this one, it is.
In my experience, it's the God proselytizers that make promises. Promises of eternal love in an afterlife. An afterlife that is impossible to know exists, and all experience with this world renders impossible. It sounds like a confidence game to me. The proselytizers behave exactly as you describe Satan. Huh.
It appears some brain matter got sucked out when the teeth were removed.
♰♰♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰♰♰
God Bless America
The "Lord's Prayer" to God the Father which the Lord Jesus Christ taught His Disciples.
Matthew 6:9-13
"9 “Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’]" (NASB)
I will not pray. Thanks though.
Vic,
"The "Lord's Prayer" to God the Father which the Lord Jesus Christ taught His Disciples."
But 'he' didn't bother to teach it to his super-buddy, Paul of Tarsus. Paul said that we don't even know how to pray.
(hint: the prayer wasn't 'composed' until after Paul died)
like Pavlov's dog, you are ...
see a topic, regurgitate a bible quote ...
one day an original thought might hit you ... LOOK OUT!!!!
D doG
Not to mention the misinformation that Vic posts then runs away when called out on it. Christians posters on this blog have this ungodly habit of lying their way out of a situation rather than admit they are wrong. Of course I could be wrong.
Or they post some long drawn out word salad gobble-dee-goop (technical term) in an attempt to prove "god did it"
The Lord's Prayer is superseded by the updated Apostles' Creed. See above.
♰♰♰ Jesus Christ Is Lord ♰♰♰
All glory be to the Polysaturated One.
Or is it ♰♰♰ Jebus Christ Is Lard ♰♰♰ ?
Praise the lard!
I am not surprised when they say " "Give us today your light to guide us every day.....". During presidential election after death of Hugo Chavez, current Venezuelan President, he claimed that he was being visited and guided by the ghost of Hugo Chavez. He also claimed, dead President Hugo Chávez, visited him from beyond the grave in the form of a little bird....and guess what!! He won the election.
Can you prove it didn't happen?
That's the best part about claiming supernatural experiences – nobody can definitively disprove it.
Have you talked to your angel/god/thetan/demon/gazoo today?
Silly socialists.
Prayers are for kids!
can't come up with a better story than this? see ya tomorrow.
Right?
Well, at least we know where the mission field is... It's like all those "Coexist" bumper stickers – now we know exactly who to preach to.
It's also good to have another example of sheep-like believers flocking to another bellwether. It helps us understand the nature of all religion.
Dah! These are atheists too!
Actually over 90% of Venezuela is Catholic.
You think a Cathholic wrote thus? No Sir.
There is no doubt in my mind it was a catholic who wrote it. Just because their catholics don't look like our catholics doesn't mean they aren't catholic. Chávez himself was a Catholic and even intended at one time to become a priest. He saw his socialist policies as having roots in the teachings of Jesus Christ, (liberation theology) and he publicly used the slogan of "Christ is with the Revolution!".
I'd say there is over a 90% chance it was written by a Catholic.
Pretty sure this person has the <(()x somewhere on their vehicle.
I can't put a bumper sticker on my car. There's so much rust that they don't stick. (smile)
Lol. No bumper stickersom my car either, but not because of rust. I just don't like 'em.
What? no jeebus fish??
Keep it to yourself... the world doesn't need anymore religious delusion.
The Christian is told "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." And "we must obey God rather than men," therefore I will never stop preaching the word of God, no matter the consequences.
There are lots of books that tell people to do lots of different things. Why do you do what you have interpreted the bible to tell you to do instead of things other books tell you to do? Don't you think you should think for yourself?
Because I obey the dictates of God, not men. I submit to government as laid out in Romans 13, until it becomes necessary that I choose one or the other, in which case I must obey God rather than men.
"Because I obey the dictates of God, not men."
You obey the dictates of men. That is who voted in which the books should be included in the bible and which books shouldn't.
"Because I obey the dictates of God, not men."
In reality, you obey your interpretation of dictates included in a work of fiction created by men. If you won't even give serious consideration to that reality, you'll continue to live in a state of delusion.
Marketing a book of fiction... how nice.
Theo Phileo,
Could you clarify something?
I don't see any conditions in Romans 13. How does that allow you to determine "when it becomes necessary"?
In other words, isn't it telling you to always "submit" to the government?
Theo
Just for clarification should you no preface all your statements that you are a liar and your posts should not be taken at face value?
" I obey the dictates of God"
Right! Those apparent words also tell you to own slaves, beat your children, to oppress women, children and LGBT, how to handle to victims of rape (force them to marry their abuser),...it's so amazing how you pick and choose and then refuse to obey the laws that matter-the laws of man. What a sadistic, narrow-minded, dangerous view...seek help Theo, you don't belong on the streets if you only obey the imaginary being you call god.
I don't see any conditions in Romans 13. How does that allow you to determine "when it becomes necessary"?
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Acts 5:29 – "...We must obey God rather than men."
Taking the whole of the Bible, the Christian is to submit to the government in all things (Romans 13), up until the point where they would force you to do something that would dishonor God (Acts 5:29).
Example: If you preach on the public streets (which is perfectly legal so long as it is public property) against sins as defined in the Bible, such as ho.mos.exuality, but the local authorities tell you that can be considered "hate speech," and they tell you to stop – our duty is to keep preaching, regardless of the consequences. And that is very near to the situation that Peter found himself in, in Acts 5.
Interesting that your sole example is hom.ose.xuality. I wonder why there is such a paucity of preaching on street corners against the sins of adultery and divorce. Hmmmmmmm.
Interesting that your sole example is hom.ose.xuality. I wonder why there is such a paucity of preaching on street corners against the sins of adultery and divorce. Hmmmmmmm.
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My example was based on the sin of this age. We preach against all sin, including adultery and divorce, since the manner of preaching includes going down the list of the 10 commandments to point out that all men are sinners. When there is a sin that is extremely prevalent in society, it is our duty to lean on that one.
There's an old Hebrew saying: throw a rock into a pack of dogs, and the one that yelps is the one that got hit. Perhaps you were offended at my example because you identify with it.
"If you preach on the public streets... against sins as defined in the Bible, such as ho.mos.exuality, but the local authorities tell you that can be considered "hate speech," and they tell you to stop – our duty is to keep preaching, regardless of the consequences."
Thanks for that, Pastor Phelps.
" When there is a sin that is extremely prevalent in society, it is our duty to lean on that one. "
Really, Theo ? You don't think adultery is prevalent in society ? And btw, your old Hebrew saying applies to you as well. When hypocrisy is pointed out, you yelp the loudest.
My example was based on the sin of this age. We preach against all sin, including adultery and divorce
That is laughable considering the only sin I see Christians trying to ban is gay marriage. Where are all the Christians calling for bans on divorced people getting remarried Theo?
Not to mention there are probably more divorced people in society than there are gay people. What a hypocrite.
I like how the good, upstanding Preachers are thinking about homosexual sex all the time.. Must be because they identify with it so much.
What is the purpose of preaching on a street corner? I assume it is to try to convince people to follow what you consider to be a god's rules. However, considering that even religious people seem to consider these corner-preachers to be completely insane, don't you think it has the opposite effect? In that case, wouldn't do less to damage your goals by NOT preaching?
Facepalm.
That is all.
Yeah, whatever.
There's an alter for Hugo Chavez? Ok, if they say so.
alter or altar? pretty funny either way.
Lol. Altar.
Another religious nut case....
LOLOLOLOL
I hope the polytheistic Christians aren't going to get upset about people worshipping something additional.